>> welcome back to power lunch. just in time for march madness. mobile sports betting launches today north carolina. the newly rebranded espn bets. outside of the gate with big competitors like fanduel, draftkings and others. wait and see who grabs it now. >> thanks for watching power lunch. >> closing bell starts ext. >> thanks so much. welcome to closing bell. hear from the new york stock exchange. this make or break our begins with the state of stoks and whether the rally is changing shape. from nvidia and meta market to an apple and off about one, we will ask about this final stretch including top insider tourney. 60 minutes to go in regulation. an eye towards tomorrow morning. cpi is clearly what is driving trading in today's session.

big debts being made either way. holding steady after a midday auction. then there is nvidia. it's always notable again. following the big friday fall. some key earnings in overtime tonight. we will get you set up for that, too and just a little bit. investors should prepare for an even bigger momentum meltdown. the self i had of investment strategy is here with me. nice to see you again. >> you, too. >> the big question is whether the momentum trade has run out of steam and now we are going to see this rotation. what do you think? >> if we're talking about the momentum trade is the magnificent seven of 2023 and the big tech names that brought us into 2024 then yes, i think it has already run out of steam. i think that ship has sailed. >> you're throwing the curtain down already? there was one day for nvidia. >> i'm not done yet. momentum. if we talk about momentum in

the terms of risks appetite momentum, that's so here, alive and well. everything happening right now may be the precursor to something else but all that i think is happening right now is investors are saying i don't want out of the market. i don't want out f growth. i would like to try to find the growth wherever else i can get it but i'm not going to be silly enough to go into things that are very obviously crowded trains, very obviously overbought. let me try some other things. those rotations going on within sectors which is exactly what is happening in tact right now and also rotations going on amongst sectors. >> do you think the nvidia reversal on friday marked day change in a trend for the market? not talking so much about the momentum of the rally itself with the factor of momentum. almost anything tied to ai and especially if you look at the direction of these chip stocks, it's not just nvidia.

micro, so many of these other names just went to the moon. seemingly everything went with it. that's related to growth, momentum is that going through a reversal. >> i think a lot of it hinges on the direction of nvidia. the guilty by association trade, as well. yes, to give some back, it should not be a surprise that the rest of the chip sector also give some back but i do not think it is a surprise that people did not throw in the towel entirely on tech. people are willing to be present for that. even if we think the market is extended which i think it is

difficult to find anybody who says it is not extended broadly at these levels at this level of yields. even if we think it is extended. that does ot mean that it has to stop. just that certain parts of it may need to slow down a bit. we are in the market. i think we talked about this halftime last week where two years ago or maybe less than that we were talking about whether the market can go up without apple. yes, it can. now we are talking about can the market go up without nvidia? we're finding that out right now. so far, one or two days, right? >> do you think it can? >> i do think it can if the rotation trade stays intact but that depends on whether the economy continues to go. because in order for a broadening out to be effective and durable it would need to include cyclical sectors which it has in part. >> materials are up 7.5% in a month. energy is doing great. financials have done better. industrials have done quite well. >> industrials have been doing well for a while. the materials and energy trade is a little bit newer. they would have to continue. if it goes into cyclical sectors like that and keeps it

durable that i do think the market can go up without nvidia but that does not mean in the meantime that the sentiment wouldn't be bruised. we've been throwing all of our eggs to the basket and it would make people nervous if nvidia went down quickly. >> are you more positive than not on the market now or no? >> in the short term, my answer would be yes. i still do not think that the business cycle ever ends a different way. i think it is just a difference in how long each phase lasts and i'm still pretty convinced that we are late cycle and that a lot of the things we are seeing in the market are more late cycle euphoria driven. not early to mid cycle expansion. >> do you think it's interesting that a lot of the points of access throughout this period of the last few years have been self-correcting in the market in some respects? if nvidia has gotten way ahead of itself, okay. they will pull back and have a breather and some of these other stocks are, too. there were these other areas of the market that are able to pick up the slack. it's been every access point along the way. and ft, all sorts of stuff that

maybe got over the skis. it self corrected in a way that did not upset the whole story. >> yes. i do think that is important. i also think it is something that throughout 2023 surprise those of us who are more cautious because it showed that there was strength and investor appetite for things to continue. and if you take it from the perspective of most crises caused in some shape or form by excessive risk-taking unless we are talking about a shock. a financial crisis is usually caused by excessive risk-taking in some part of the market. if we've been seeing little bits of excessive risk-taking whether it is in all the places you just mentioned. ai, crypto, wherever it may be, but it does self-correct and we still stay afloat, that is an indication of a i'll be market. >> you're still convinced that the economy is not going to

have a good ending? >> i'm convinced that in order to transition from late cycle back to early cycle you have to have a transaction -- contraction that recites the business cycle which is not happened yet. if we were early to mid cycle, the unemployment rate would typically be higher and coming down. the labor market is the last thing to practice and the last thing to recover. it usually recovers pretty slowly. during the early to mid cycle phase, you typically see the unemployment rate coming down which is good. an indication of growth and increasing health. we've been at this bottom level of unemployment and we are actually more so on the rise then on the fall. that typically is characteristic of late cycle, getting them to the point where maybe we are starting to see some cracks form because of the tools we have used to pull down the overheating economy. >> let's bring in emily rowland of john hancock investment and

our commentator mike santilli. good to have you with us. you've been listening to the conversation. some people are trying to figure out if there is in fact a trend change in this market. how do you assess everything? >> first of all, you have to see the brake to know if it is going to have effects. you can't anticipate in advance and say this will cause the entire market to breakdown. i'm reminded of i was using the phase -- raise immaculate rotation. in 2013. 2013 was this kind of market where we broke towards a new high and it felt like we were ahead in general. every time it sort of started to falter, something else did pick up and it showed that there was a willingness to keep equity exposures high to maintain your risk levels in the market. just let things cool off and then reheat as needed. i'm not saying that we have this perfect rerun. that was a melt up year in general. but the start to this year feels and looks a lot 2017, 2013, 1995 were you did have a rally that was already running into the year and then it felt like it's just hard to hang in there and say how is this market going to go up every day

discounting this? agree or not, the way things are mid cycle or at least not at the end of the cycle. >> that's where wanted to go next. i'm glad you ended that way. they are late cycle and it's been a good debate lately with people on the program suggesting maybe they are not as late cycle is you would have thought. maybe we are rather early, rather mid cycle. >> i don't know about early at all. i agree with the fact that longer-term unemployment rate below 4% means it's not a lot to get out of that part of the economy anymore. you can have a steady state and it just kind of muddle through and grow at a decent pace, but not really move. that happened for years. we were using a higher slack economy in the 2010s. i don't know if you have to make that macro. right now estimates are going up, earnings have turned higher in terms of the forecast. you have relatively loose financial conditions and you have a fed that is expressing a willingness to look for an excuse to cut into all-time

highs in stocks, credit spreads and a strong economy. so tell me what's wrong with that. and i guess if the 12% drop from friday's height nvidia didn't not something loose in the market and you realize there is some leverage players out there writing this too hard and there going to get disorderly. might still happen. has not happened yet. >> emily, how do you see it? >> we completely agree that we are in an extended late cycle environment. the problem is that psychoanalysis has been completely unhelpful. that's a tough one for people like us focused on the business cycle. the spirit is alive and well as markets have reacted to this. at one point we had six rate cuts and financial conditions are easing. we got 300 basis points. nobody cares about extended valuation. there are easing financial conditions. powell talking about getting closer and closer to cuts.

the fed policy should be like the movie fight club. the first rule is you don't talk about fight club. the first rule about fed policy is you should not talk about rate cuts until you have to talk about rate cuts. that's one reason we see this broad participation across markets, risk assets, and a sense of complacency across markets. we think investors need to be mindful here of how far they are reaching per risk. >> you say when you have to talk about rate cuts. i take that to insinuate that the feds are going to have to cut rates, you think, because the economy is going to force their hand because it is going too slow. what if they just want to cut rates? they don't have to do anything but they make what some would arguably say is a preemptive move because they can and maybe that gets underscored tomorrow morning with the cpi release. >> cpi will be critical

tomorrow. the fed does have some cover here. rates are probably too restrictive, given that inflation continues to decelerate. of course, the path to getting to 2% is a little bit bumpy but we are certainly moving in the right direction here and that is what makes investing really tricky right now. markets are responding to this idea of rate cuts. typically, when the fed is cutting, it is because there is something wrong. whether it is the unemployment rate going up as lenses mentioned or some type of braking. a type of financial accident. if you look at the last 13 cycles, they all end with something braking. it is really hard to see that happening now. by the way, the fact that we are continuing fiscal stimulus to the tune of potentially $2 trillion this year is keeping the economy from slowing to the extent that it normally would and keeping margins from crashing and keeping companies holding onto their labor force. it is hard to see this any other way than it typically is.

>> i am not sure why then, it would be, as you say, so tricky to be an investor. it's been i guess anything but. the market seems to be hung out on the idea that the fed is going to be cutting rates. that is all that really matters. does not necessarily matter when or by how much. the economy is hanging in there. earnings are hanging in there. rates seem to be lower because of the anticipation of these rate cuts coming. we have a new economic revolution if you will by virtue of ai. has that not simplified the whole thing? >> a little bit but the tricky part for a lot of the investors that i talked to is that they have not participated and if you missed out on this market, particularly omega cap tech, that has been a tough pill to swallow. it's about figuring out how to participate. the challenge is that even the tech valuations are very much elevated, i on't think anybody can argue that, there's nothing really wrong with tech. look at quarter four earnings.

by far, this sector had the best. 90% versus 75% for the broad market. the magnitude was exceptional. 10 percentage points higher. you want to be there but it feels not quite right to be investing in areas of the market that are up over 50% in the past year. sticking with it, not necessarily downgrading tech but looking at areas that are actually trading cheap. u.s. mid-cap, for example, traded 16 times. mid-cap value looking t areas like healthcare that have been left in the dust giving us a 10% discount. even utilities, i hate to say it. a 20% discount in the broad market. we think these defensive areas can help balance that exposure. >> bears have been to bearish and now that the market has gone up a lot, they cannot bring themselves to say well,

you know what, i think this market has got some legs. that's sort of what i gathered from people who remain bearish or overly cautious in the market. the market has gone a lot. are they going to change their view now? >> it's confirmation bias. we all suffer from it on some level. you can find things to buy in the market right now. it's not tech, probably, other parts of the market. if you have changed your view from being bearish to more constructive or more nuanced. completely bearish on the economy to thinking that we might muddle through with a mild contraction. you would want to be exposed to some cyclical areas that have not quite kept up. maybe they have had a little rally in the last month or so, but they are not overpriced at these levels. the thing that i think is important especially had to have tomorrow's report, inflation has come down but we are stuck at this 3% level in cpi. that is not what the fed

watches but we are stuck at 3%. it is expected to stay stuck at 3.1%. core cpi is still at 7%. the other thing i look at his breakeven inflation rates. we look at the two year breakeven rate. 75 since the end of november. that's what the fed cares about. that means that inflation is entrenched which also means i still think there is stamina for holding rates this high, much stronger than the market stamina and that is where the pressure is. >> but you did not hear from the fed chair on the hill last week. he did not come off as somebody who thinks that inflation is going to remain entrenched. he was pretty dovish. let's just say it, he was. maybe he was a little bit more dovish than people expected him to be. >> slightly. from the cpi tomorrow, over the next eight days until the fed decision and press conference, you will have to see how the market absorbs if that changes the story at all. we've got to be alert to that.

he was more dovish, but it's the overall framework. you have to think december, the consensus outlook. what did it say? we think the neutral rate is a lot lower than what rates are right now. what does that mean if it still 5 3/8? i think that is really feeding that perceived dovish nets, which is really just look at the numbers. we have this gap here and we can go part of the way. the other piece of it is, i think everybody to a degree has crisis brain when it comes to why does the fed do what it does? this idea that something must be wrong for them to cut rates. they have to be responding to something scary. arguably in 2019, there was a little bit of this in the money markets. they had room to cut. you had a bear market but it was not because they cut rates. because they broke something so to speak. 95, you know. can't talk about it too much. it's the perfect year and you can't take credit for it before it happens. there was no crisis there and trend rates a couple of times.

used to be able to kind of come off the brake a little bit and feather the gas and see how it worked as opposed to responding to a fire. >> i would say, too, maybe stay away from the mega caps that the apple and alphabet trades of the last couple of days would suggest that it is too early to write that trade-off. it's maybe just taking a different makeup were a couple of the higher momentum games will pull back but it's still deems the place to be. it will have a couple of other leadership stocks for a while potentially. >> we set for some time that it is important to look underneath the hood and find those higher- quality companies. great balance sheets, tons of cash, elevated return on equity. a limited need to tap the capital markets in order to

grow. we want to look at the factor composition. we want to find that intersection between tachometer and quality. some of that is also momentum. as an active investor you have to really be thoughtful there. >> people are using those factors and still deeming that the trade is going to be a place to be. you just have momentum sort of reverse itself or rotate into other quality names within the group. it would be hard to argue with me that apple and alphabet are not deemed quality. they may have lost their momentum for a period of time, but those things can reverse rather easily. >> yeah, they can. so the theme for us is quality at a reasonable price. we look at it in areas again like healthcare. you will talked about industrials. we are seeing a big benefit to

industrials from on shoring and reassuring themes. there is almost an industrial revolution happening in the united states right now, so you really want to look at where is the investment going? the infrastructure and jobs act. the inflation reduction act. it's the chips act. we want to look for those more cyclical areas that offer quality and are going to see that momentum as far as the earnings backdrop goes from here. there are definitely opportunities for finding that quality at a reasonable price. >> thank you so much for being here. we will see you in market zone. to pippa stevens now for the biggest names moving into the close. >> moderna shares are popping following an upbeat note from ups. pointing to confidence ahead of the cmv three vaccine this year. and a broader latent virus portfolio. shares of slipping after the justice department opened a criminal investigation into the

737 max door plug blowout n the alaska airlines flight in january. the doj and boeing both had no comment while alaska airlines said they are fully cooperating. those shares are down 3%. scott. >> thank you. we will see you soon. just getting started. navigating nvidia's fall. what this move means that we an l ask -- ask tony what that a reddit ipo coming up, too. you are watching closing bell on cnbc.

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contributor obviously. nice to have you back. >> thanks for having me. >> i will ask you about this in a minute. since reddit is top of mind, 22 million shares. we will do this the week of march 18th. what is your view? are you interested? >> we do hold. we bought it in the private market and we are very bullish over on the company. a lot of folks have been taking a look at reddit really closely so that we can better understand what this might portend for future ipos. we have not really had one that has really as much name recognition in the onsumer space as reddit since may be pinterest. this is one that will be closely watched by a lot of investors both in the public and private markets. >> how do you think it will do? >> they are looking at an ipo price that puts it in the range of about 6.5 billion read as he pointed out that $31-$34 per share.

the last private market financing was about 10 billion. that's about 60, $61 per share. i think this is the correct movement to place it at a valuation to number one. recognize the fact that the last private market valuation was at the height of the market. number two, you always want to have the opportunity for these stocks at ipo to have a little room for performance to run up as long as everything feels good for investors. i think that price point makes a lot of sense. and look, that's going to be a new bar for how investors are thinking about pricing future ipos. especially with the dynamic that there is recognition that the last private market financing may have been a level higher than the ipo market can support. >> you sell it to the deal, are you a long-term holder? how do you personally view it?

>> we're locked up for 5 to 6 months. we are focused on private market investing, so we don't go into the area that your prior panel was discussing around the public markets. i think a few things will make this reddit ipo interesting to watch. one is getting a better understanding of where sentiment is among the public markets acceptance for tech venture backed ipos that have a varied focus on generating revenues from tumors. and number two, reddit will be interesting, if nothing else, just because of the forums that exist around stock and the fact that reddit plans on offering a portion of shares to the most active reddit users. we know what happened with game stop. we will have to see how these creditors influence the price of the stock. >> you feel like this is a true

part find of the ipo market or is this just another one of those idiosyncratic stories that will just do its own thing and it's not really going to tell us anything about the bigger picture? >> you know, look. we've not seen a lot of ipos since we reached the peak of over 1000 companies going public a few years ago. we are at 30 to 35 ipos so far this year. like i said, this ipo from reddit would be the first kind of recognizable name for consumers that, you know, follows companies in the social space pinterest. i don't know if we should say that this ipo is successful, that it will completely unfollow the market. however, i do think we should watch this very closely because it could, if it stumbles, if reddit stumbles, it's not good news for the market. i think what we are looking for is reddit to set the stage for more ipos, like the names that everyone is waiting for. most notably companies like data bricks, strive, obviously.

even turo. i think we need to see a launch of a number of companies that perform well until we see a full define of the market. this isn't going to be just one year. this could take several years for us to truly in thought. >> when you see nvidia trading the way it has, what goes through your mind? what does that tell you, if anything? >> i think, number one, for a lot of investors, especially at the retail level, there is this recognition around the promise of ai and there is this connection between the demand for those services and the infrastructure that is necessary to be able to power them. most notably, people of come all the way down to chips. nvidia without question is the leader of that space.

a lot of investors i think are just using nvidia as a way to kind of index the entire ai space, because we all know that chips are going to be necessary. always take a longer-term view. i think your panel really did a great job of articulating the difference between the momentum that is behind the rise in nvidia versus the overall promise of the space, which will take a much longer turn. when we think about all of the private market companies that we see on the gp network, talking to cto, cios. i think they are just now dipping their toes in, experimenting and trying to understand how they are going to incorporate these ai tools and technologies into their business processes to really drive more business value. they are at the very, very early stage. i would agree with your panel. nvidia might be due for little breather near term. near term. however, we are very bullish on nvidia. the overall ai space.

nvidia is not just driven solely by ai. nvidia is going to benefit from the continued rising gaming, self driving cars, cloud in general. there is a lot of momentum that is going to be long-term beneficial to nvidia. everything will have a chip. everything is going to be connected to the network t the edge. so these are all great trends for nvidia long-term. >> you look at some of the other stocks that have gotten a halo effect from nvidia and say this is just crazy. some of these have gone up by insane margins. their valuations have gotten crazy and there is just too much froth and a broad swath of stocks. not necessarily nvidia related but the ones that have written the coattails. >> there are a lot that have done that, as well. this is what always happens, right? the proof is in the pudding. i think when we look at the earnings potential for companies like nvidia do you

know, i would say those are real, because we can see the numbers. we see the onnection between the performance of nvidia based on the demand for the chips, which is based on the demand long-term for ai, cloud, and these other elements that nvidia is playing in and there are companies that are kind of writing long on the coattails. i mean, that happens. we see it in every cycle. we see it across multiple industries, and it's really, you know, you've got to take it a little deeper than just trying to understand why these companies are moving. and that takes time and research. sometimes people don't want to do that and just say hey, these companies are playing in that space, so i'm going to pick one that might a little cheap and hatch onto it. >> good uck. see you soon. coming up, charting out n opportunity.

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selling the next guest, other sectors of the market could be ready to breakout. the head of strategy back with us. glad to have you back. >> glad to be here. >> it is got a note in my inbox from one of the places on the screen. the headline is with signs and the rally stalling, we remain defensive. is the rally stalling or just rotating? >> i think it's a very rotational market. think about the last couple of weeks. there's been these little shots. we've seen it with nvidia and apple. it has not been bad. we're talking about 75% of the

snp. to call this narrow or justifying some defensive posture here i think is a bit too far at this moment. there is maybe a hint of life from some of these defensive groups but that's after 12 months of nothing. to say those are trenching is premature. >> like utilities? you like utilities, right? >> yeah. there is a difference between laggards going up in price. utilities have lagged for the better part of the last year. at least they're not going down. >> i'm trying to think of groups to which you might be referring. >> the biggest right now is probably healthcare. you want to consider defenses. we are talking about 80% of healthcare stocks. the best rating in three or four years. there's been some clear improvement over the course of the last three or four months in that sector. it's against the backdrop of what has been really liquidation if you look at the flows in healthcare. this kind of powerful cocktail, powerful combination of healthcare setting up well as

the market maybe takes on a touch more of a defensive tone. >> what you tell clients about technology and that trade right now? that's top of mind for everybody. nvidia made it that way on the way up and the reverse on friday. >> the biggest punch line is there is a difference between a top and a correction or a top and a consolidation. i don't think these are big top formations taking shape. there is clearly an emotional element to this. the options are excessive. just in the discussion on the show, there is an emotional element to are with tech. i went back over the weekend and looked at how all of the real parabolic stocks peaked in 2000. what you learn is it was not a single day. it took months and months and months of distribution. we have had one noted reversal from a very extended spot. could this be the start of correction? absolutely. if we are going to talk about big top formations, we want to do that for months and months. the only stock that has done

this is probably apple. ironically oversold. probably bounces. >> tesla? >> in the spirit of the max seven. but apple and adobe are the two that look like they have topped. that's a difference from saying hey, nvidia is vulnerable to a correction. >> we are having this conversation of whether the nvidia and meta-market as we say at the top is at least as it relates to big cap tech becomes an alphabet and apple market for a while in that group. money comes out of the leaders. maybe even that idea is premature. to declare that those stock have topped. >> i think the big change in google or apple is in the relative standing of each stock. they've been deteriorating in their relative standing for the better part of the last six, seven, eight months. >> that's fair. >> i think you have bounces in apple or google. they are oversold. you would be wise to reduce

exposure to that. look at the bigger picture for a moment. after 600 trading days, it was highlighted last week for the first time. >> 1/5 of the stocks that they had. it's not like the broadening story is limited to a very small group of stocks. >> this is rotational and i get that all the big waves and the indexes may be vulnerable to a correction here. energy is perking up. materials have perked up. utilities, healthcare, we know. there is a difference between the correction and a top. maybe it's consolidation. >> tech is entering one of its weakest seasonal periods as well from the period of march to may. >> seasonality is conditional. i don't think you make the calls on seasonality but it can help fill in some of the gaps. >> i have not heard that. why is that the case? >> it's funny because tech is historically not a seasonal

sector except these three months. this is a very good three months for energy, materials, copper, gold. we are seeing certainly white and gold. watch copper here. very close to a big breakout. >> i will see you soon. we are tracking the biggest movers into the close. pippa stevens is back with that. >> another mega merger in the energy sector with stocks going in opposite directions. all the details coming up next.

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we are about 15 out from the bell. pippa stevens watching stocks for us. >> this is the worst performer in the snp after announcing it will buy a blind operator aqua trans for $5 billion. it was spun out in 2018 after pressure from activist partners. the owner of the controversial mountain valley pipeline that runs from west virginia to virginia. on the call this morning, the data center alley will create more opportunity. toby rice will be on last call tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern for more on that deal. two bids to outperform. barclays is saying the share losses since the texas mo katz fire broke out is overdone. the drop is an attractive entry

point for a high-quality utility. scott. bitcoin breakout climbing to yet another record to start the week. we will find out what is behind the move and how the rest of the crypto spaces reacting. we will do that just ahead. plus what to watch when oracle reports in overtime. all those details when closing bell comes right back. at pgim, finding opportunity in fixed income today, helps secure tomorrow. our time-tested fixed income suite, backed by over 145 years of risk experience,

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we are in the closing bell markets. here to break down the crucial moments of the trading day. but corn rallying to new highs. looking ahead to oracle. those earnings coming out. front and center tomorrow morning. we will be talking a lot about that and the influence it has on specific trades. i'm even thinking about how nvidia and the stocks trade on the backside of that. >> for now, the market shows it can take a punch. any of the associated stocks. it's not just tech. i keep talking about cosco. the seventh biggest historic stock. it's down 10% off friday morning for no reason except that it's in the same basket. the same headlong momentum basket. we are absorbing all of that because of quiet macro.

treasury yields are slightly higher in the last day. the stock market, and said many times, can live with 3% inflation. the fed says we need to take extreme measures to get it from 3 to 2. if that's not the case, you will not panic out just because of three on cpi. >> right now, that's not the case. >> let me ask you this. signs of the rally stalling. we stay defensive now. and very defensive for a long time. we debated whether the rally is stalling or just rotating in the makeup of the rally is changing. that's not necessarily a bad thing at all. >> it's flattened out, slow down. whatever we got to two weeks ago. i keep noticing it's above 15. maybe people are bracing for something more.

i think there's a difference between saying the risk or reward doesn't really look right over here for 20 times earnings and everybody expecting a soft landing. and saying it was an illegitimate move up to this point and therefore it has to end. because i don't really think there's anything telling you in the market itself but it's acutely vulnerable to the next pullback being the big one. >> kate rooney watching bitcoin which has been on a run to say the least. >> exactly. the rally is seen as a sign of risk appetite. the main price driver is the demand for new crypto etf's. roughly $20 billion flowing into the funds so far excluding grayscale, which is still seen outflows due to higher fees. it's been immune from some of the selloff. pointing out the lack of correlation lately. with gold and even interest rates.

wealthier buyers out there. and has more leverage with the markets exacerbating moves in both directions. worth mentioning this event in april to keep the cap on the bitcoin supply adding to the bullish sentiment. to exchange traded funds overseas. one base is getting a big boost over there direct listing price of $250. back to you. >> thanks. this is steve ust has not gotten the love that some of these other software names have gotten. >> you've kind of got this cloud company claiming to be nai beneficiary. credited ai for what she called astronomical demand. unclear how much cloud service and revenue is related to ai. expecting almost $10 billion in revenue for that segment.

expecting total revenues of $13.3 billion. that would be 7%. one thing to pay attention to is nvidia. barrett from hp enterprises saying they can't get their hands on enough chips to meet ai demand and dell said the opposite this season. it's curious where they fall in that equation hopefully some answers there on the call. >> good stuff. as for the insight. a minute left in the trade today monday. we will be watching rates in the morning. small caps. look at all the signs that are most sensitive, i suppose to moves and rates. >> you go down the checklist and rates have been enough in the range that they have not necessarily said -- small caps not necessarily underperforming but supermicro down 2.5%. it's part of that. oracle reports have acted a little bit more finicky.

>> adobe reports this week, too. >> exactly. there's some activity going on, not necessarily a bad thing. >> the bell is ringing. 50, 55 points or so. oracle coming up, too. >> the s&p and nasdaq extend losses in a seesaw session for stocks. the scorecard on wall street where the action is just getting started. welcome to closing bell overtime. we have john in austin, texas. >> and did i am, morgan. good afternoon. material is the best performing sector while real estate is lagging. meanwhile the semi conductor sector cooling off