♪ good afternoon, everybody. welcome to "power lunch" alongside deirdre bosa, welcome. nice to have you here on the east coast. i'm tyler mathisen. rough start to the second quartercontinuing today with the dow down about 479 points right now. unitedhealth, a huge drag on the index, costing the dow more than 200 points all by itself. changes to medicare rates weighing on the health insurers today. we'll have more on that coming up. big tech also tumbling today. the nasdaq down more than the s&p on a percentage basis. and the so-called speculative tech trade is getting hit particularly hard. it's a bad day for cathy wood. her arc innovation fund is down 3% and tesla, one of her biggest holdings, and its falling after delivery numbers disappoint. we also have coin base falling along with bitcoin and

therapeutics losing a third of its value after the cholesterol drug caused side effects in a trial. >> all right. today's action a signal maybe that the market is turning just a bit? those seven big tech names that carried the market last year, they're starting just a bit to fade. in fact, they've been fading for some months in some cases. so should investors now look elsewhere? are old names becoming cool again? seema mody is looking at the new-look ge which has been a stealth outperformer. >> good afternoon, tyler. that's right. it's not often an industrial stock outperforms big tech, but that's what we're seeing with general electric, which continues to defy critics. now, over 80% in the past 12 months. its highest level since 2017, outpacing the gains of a number of tech names like microsoft, amazon and the broader nasdaq. wall street really crediting ceo for its bold restructuring moves including the latest bet, spinning off energy into a stand alone company vernova.

he is excited about staying on ge arrowspace and finding ways to further integrate artificial intelligence into the business. he also added that he is very optimistic on china despite the disappointing economic data showing airlines are looking to modernize and expand their fleet. whether the stock can continue its run, spoke to tony ankroft who runs the commercial arrowspace and defense etf, ge remains one of their biggest holdings. the valuation they say is justifies right now. >> thank you very much. let's talk more on how to position in the market right now. chief market strategist at turtle creek wealth advisers. david, always good to see you. thanks for being with us. what do you make of or read into ge's outperformance in recent months relative to the dow and relative to some of the m magnificent seven stocks.

is it a telltale? >> if you look at what happened in march, you had value outperform growth. you had small caps outperform large caps. starting to see the market broaden out. it's not just the magnificent seven anymore. and investors realize if we're really going to have a soft landing and the fed is going to cut rates, we need to start broadening out. we need to diversify. so we're seeing opportunity in cyclicals and industrials like ge, in energy, in financials as well as small cap. that's where investors need to start focussing. tech has had by far the lion's share of inflows other the last 12 months. valuations are still extended. it's really a good opportunity and the market is telling us this, too, to look at other parts of the market in order to balance out our portfolios. >> at the same time, david, what's interesting in tech, they obviously have sort of the ai, the generative ai wins at its back, but you're seen valuations actually come down. you have an amazon with better profitability. you have an nvidia with blow-out sales. are they overvalued?

do you have to be more discerning not just buy the mag seven or fab four? >> we're seeing stocks actually trade on earnings growth, projected earnings growth and not just on monetary policy. what's the fed going to do. so, yes, i still think you want to own technology. microsoft is a great play to own for ai. and you need to own those types of companies because they still do have some of the best earnings growth in the market. but at the same time, it's important, particularly if we get into what should be one of a recovery rally to own these other sectors as well, to diversify, look for parts of the market that are less expensive that have attractive earns growth potential. >> what about the small cap area? it's been hard to make money in that part of the market relatively speaking over the last few years. >> right. >> what's the best play there now? >> well, small cap has been hard, tyler. you really hit that. i think one of the issues with small cap has been the problem is there's a lot of companies within the small cap industries

that don't generate a profit. rising interest rates will have a bigger impact on small cap companies because they don't have the ability to weather that as well as larger cap companies do. but i think you look at healthcare, great opportunity for small cap. some of the regional banks you can do well there, too. small cap really needs to pick up the pace. if we're going to have a true broadening out of the market and a true sustainable rally, we need to see small cap perform better. that's one of the things we saw in march that was very encouraging. >> right. not exactly that way in today's market. another example, though, something out of favor that's coming back in a big way oil jumping to the highest level since october. pippa stevens joining with us. we're kneely at 90. >> that's right. amid escalating tensions the middle east and on going attacks by ukrainian drones on russian oil infrastructure, including today on russia's third largest refinery. this comes as opec and its allies continue to keep a lid on supply while demand has remained

steady. the climb in oil is also lifting energy stocks with the sector pacing for a record close for the first time in a decade. the recent dip in tech stocks mirrors an uptick in energy buying as you see on that chart right there. morgan stanley recently upgraded to overrate, noting it trades two times the historical discount relative to the bradder market. in other words, valuations still look compelling. today's rally is widespread with a number of names hitting new all time highs, diamond back, marathon petroleum, 66 and valero. target resources and williams all hitting their highest in at least a year. >> pippa, thank you for that. david, what's your take on rising oil prices and the impact on the broader market? last hour we were talking about chinese demand which looks like it could be increasing. >> well, not with standing the issues the middle east and the geopolitical problems that are creating pressure on oil prices, i do think it's a good sign. if china is going to come back, if their going to rebound and be a driver of world economic growth, you're going to see oil

prices go higher. now the one thing we have to keep an eye on, we don't want oil prices to get too high. somewhere in the 80 to $90 range is the middle ground that doesn't create too much inflationary pressure and good sign for the economy. yes, we do like energy. that goes back to the theory of owning cyclicals. energy stocks have been a bit out of favor, but we think that's a good place to be particularly if we're going to have this soft landing and a renewed economic resurgence globally. >> energy is a big and sprawly sector. where specifically would you be putting that money? refiners, power companies? it could be a lot of different things. >> yeah. the power generation area, tyler, is very intriguing. when you think about the amount of power that's being required in the united states today and in the world, given the move toward electric vehicles and bitcoin mining and all the

demand for power. anything related to power generation and that includes fossil fuels as well. they'll be powering these utility plants are going to be able to farewell in this vierlt. >> what about ai and data centers. they require a lot of energy as well. >> absolutely. thank you for bringing that up. ai and data centers are probably the biggest factor in the demand for power. absolutely. you want to own companies that will benefit from the growth of data, the growth of data demand and data centers. again, that's something you can own in the energy sector. >> you mentioned china a moment ago and the possibility of better than expected growth in that country. do you see china for the average individual investor in the united states, is it investable today? >> that's a great question, tyler. i think the average individual, if you're going to invest in emerging markets equities, obviously china is a big, big component of that, your best opportunity is to go to with an active manager who invests in

china as well as other asian countries that will benefit from chinese growth and other parts of the emerging markets. i don't think individual investors want to be dipping their toe into individual chinese equities because there's still so much uncertainty and too many issues around the politics, communist china. but i do think that investors can own good, well-managed active managed funds that own emerging market equitequities. >> let's move on to our last example of market rotation for this hour, at least. bitcoin, falling 6% while gold rises to a new all-time high and dom chu has been looking at those numbers. >> tyler, let's get that new benchmark price right out there with regard to gold. the record price earlier today was 22.97 spot 90 for gold futures and right now things stand, this will be the sixth-straight day for rising prices. yesterday's record was powered by inflation data coming in largely as expected late last week. which then led to expectations about the fed rate cut staying on track for later on this

summer. now today that tail wind faded with interest rates on the rise. but now geopolitical tensions are on the rise the middle east and elsewhere and they've led to that safety or haven bid for those gold prices. now, that's helping to push gold mining stocks like new mont higher. they're up by almost a percent. the manic gold miners etf. silver is up about 4%. meanwhile, it's not the same story for bitcoin, digital gold. those prices are falling $4,000 or so, 65,000 and change is the current mark as risks aversion takes a bit more of a step towards center stage given the interest rates on the rise. now prices of that largest crypto currency are now more than 10% below the record levels that we saw just about three weeks ago. that's working its way through the crypto ecosystem. stocks like coin base the exchange operator, marathon, digital and business software company micro strategy holds a lot of bitcoin on its balance

sheet those shares down 6.5% right now. big move. back over to you, ty. >> thank you, dom. david, let's turn to gold first and then to bitcoin. talk me through your position on both of those. >> well, gold is an interesting juxtaposition with what we're seeing with the goldly locks landing. you have cyclical stocks and small caps and others outperforming. one of the things that to me is a big factor there outside of what's happening the middle east and some of these other issues creating angst is the fiscal situation here in the u.s. if i'm a prudent investor and see that the u.s. is going to run another close to $2 trillion deficit and have to issue new treasuries and be at, i don't know, 40 trillion total debt before long, i don't want to own bitcoin and probably a little leery of the fiat currencies like the dollar. gold is a great place to invest. i think that's a big part of what's going on. ultimately over time, though, you wouldn't expect gold to be

rallying if we're truly going to have a sustainable stock market rally and a true soft landing and goldly locks-type environment. that's one of the things we need to keep an eye on that potentially could be a red flag. >> how about bitcoin? >> bitcoin is a risk asset. bitcoin is not a substitute for fiat currency. bitcoin is a risk asset. something that you own when risk is up, when risk appetite is up and the other thing is bitcoin does the best when liquidity is flush. we're seeing liquidity come out of the market. treasury liquidity is declining during tax season. probably temporary given it's an election year. but as liquidity declines, bitcoin recently hit an overbought level. you'll see bitcoin suffer from that. but i would never want to own bitcoin in lieu of the dollar other fiat currencies because i was concerned about the fiscal situation. >> but that's the entire argument that bitcoin bulls make. >> i know.

>> what are they seeing? and when does it maybe act like a safe haven? >> bitcoin bulls are talking their book. personally i have yet to see -- at some point in time if crypto currency becomes regulated by the central banks around the world, that would be a different story but then it won't be as nearly volatile as it is today and won't have the opportunity for the gains you have now. s of right now, i just don't see it and we don't see it as a viable alternative. >> let's talk about actual gold, the precious yellow metal. i talked with a guest last hour is the fact that if china's economy is recovering and seeing the consumer bounce back. are they going to spend their money on gold? traditionally typically that has been what has happened, but with more investment options, perhaps a stock market which has been under so much pressure, do you think that happens? could that underpine higher gold prices? >> well, again, i think you're talking about reserves going

into the gold and out of the dollar. i think that is obviously something that could happen. the problem is -- or the head wind to that theory is that there's no market in the world that's large and liquid as the u.s. treasury market is. so, as countries like china are developing reserves and need to park the reserves, there will still be demand for treasuries. gold will take a piece of that. but i don't think that is really a threat to the u.s. treasury market or the dollar in general longer term. but yes, near term particularly given with what's going on here in the u.s., rates will come down. the fiscal situation doesn't look particularly attractive, i can see central banks around the world looking at gold as an alternative at least in the short term to the u.s. dollar and treasuries. >> i was thinking about consumers. but a good point. maybe both of those together. david, thanks very much for being with us today. coming up, a show of force against apple. comedian jon stewart saying the tech company asked him not to interview the ftc chair on his

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♪ welcome back to "power lunch." apple shares are holding up relatively well in today's market. down less than 1%. the company, though, we have been talking about it facing a number of issues, including a lawsuit and now a new potential embarrassment. jon stewart says apple discouraged him from interviewing ftc chair lina khan on his short-lived apple tv show. joining us more to talk more about this is steve kovach. we're not supposed to worry about content. there's so much out there. >> this is becoming a pr

blunder. we kind of learned some of this last year when jon stewart left apple and the reports are he wanted to do a story on china, artificial intelligence and now we are learning from what he said last night, bring lina khan on and interview and apple told him no. i asked apple, they're big silent. they want this to blow over. but what's interesting about this and a lot of commentary has already been bandied about. this ties back to the doj lawsuit. i want to read you this one part it's kind of bananas, but i'll read you this part of the doj lawsuit. quote, apple's conduct extends beyond just monopoly profits and even affects the flow of free speech. for example, apple is rapidly expanding its role as a tv and movie producer and has exercised that role to control content. interesting argument here. >> come on. >> basically saying, you know, because apple is rich and successful they don't get to choose -- that's like saying -- >> tiny, tiny player. >> doesn't matter how big they are. that's like saying the people in

this building right now can't decide what airs on cnbc. the government's positioning here seems to be, i don't know, to compel apple to let jon stewart interview lina khan or do a story on ai. no, that's not how it works. apple was his employer. that doesn't mean it's not embarrassing or a blunder for apple. a bad pr look, but it's not illegal. and it's just really interesting the doj is kitchen sinking everything, include this. >> you would say if we extended this back to other companies that have been assailed on free speech grounds. >> same thing. >> the public is saying we are the publisher here. we are the owner of this platform. we have the right to not post your -- >> this has been going on seen elon musk took over twitter, now x. people seem to forget that first amendment doesn't give you the right to post on twitter. >> it gives you the right to say it. >> exactly. >> does not mean that a platform owner -- >> exactly. elon musk wants to make it a

safe space for nazis to post. that's fine. he has a right to do that, but it's not illegal and the government doesn't get to tell him that. >> when i heard you read that part from the doj lawsuit, it makes me think they're undermining their own argument by going after things like this where apple is just such a small player in the streaming wars. but i also wonder how it relates to this broader picture, right? we say that apple, the biggest downside of what's happening right now, all of the scrutiny from regulators is that it's distracted. >> exactly. or could get distracted as this goes on. >> does apple have to deal with this? do you have to do anything? >> on this specific thinking no. they're not doing anything. they're literally be silent. letting it blow over. >> does it hurt? they have to go out to the biggest hollywood producers and talent and say work with them. >> welcome to the media business, tim cook. you have to deal with different creators, different opinions who want to do different things. some of them, like jon stewart did, aren't going to want to do what you want content wise. >> did stewart air any of the

stories that the china story -- >> he did the ai story last night. >> did the ai story. >> unclear if that was the exact. >> interview lina khan. >> last night. >> on "daly show". >> that's where he brought it up. he said to lina khan, apple didn't want me to interview you. >> now that i'm on paramount -- >> paramount but comedy central, yes. paramount plus you can stream it too. this is not the first time apple has played content moderator. years and years ago they booted alex jones off the podcast app nasty things he was saying related to sandy hook and so far. >> this is only part of the reason that jon stewart left apple. more stories he wanted to do. this could just be the start. i'm looking forward to see what he does on china and ai. >> we know so much of apple is tied up in china. the last thing they want to do

is to have a very critical china story they produced. of course they told him no. >> this may work in his benefit. goes and does a critical china story not with apple. >> it's a bad look for apple. i want to be clear, sit a pr blunder for them. it is embarrassing but not illegal as the doj and so many others online have been alleging. >> steve, thank you very much. we appreciate it. further ahead, deep dive into home prices. we'll explain how much more a monthly home payment is today than just a year ago. we'll be right back.

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all so you can trade brilliantly. welcome back to "power lunch," everybody. while stocks are falling today, bond yields are rising. there is a connection there. and here to explain it all is rick santelli in chicago. hey, rick. >> hi, tyler. indeed they are rising. in many ways this is an extension of the data that was released on good friday. it's still affecting markets. it's still the talk at water coolers. and as you look at intraday of 10s, you can see, it looks like it's eased off. pair it up with yesterday you can see the entire treasury curve has traded above yesterday's yields or below yesterday's low prices.

year to date, the high yield close for 10s double top is at 432. anything above that given a half base point, 433 or higher will most likely technically per pet chew wait selling, pushing yields higher. we'll talk to a trader about it. we see yields are moving higher. right now everything is in play for fresh 2024 high yield closes in treasuries. and the equities don't seem too happy about it. >> stagflation is here. it's not about growth really as much as it is about those deglobalization, all the other things underneath the hood. on top now commodities are going higher. sounds like another time we know the 1970s it rhymes. >> the 1970s were complete different time. you and i agree with that. one thing that ties it all together is that the globalism forces that brought us disinflation have reversed. talk about china until you're broou in the face. i don't think those supply lines will come back the way they were pre-covid, do you?

>> no. populism is driving and deglobalization is driving spending. it's not just about growth, right? it's about who is getting that money. that's a very different change. >> another thing nobody really notices that yesterday we closed 200 bases points above boons. 200 bases point. why do you think that is? >> well, at the end of the day, you know, the structural inflation is here to stay. the money goes to the opportunity is. and these things are going higher. we talked about it. if you continue to choose in a stagf stagflation environment. what do you think will happen? that's what powell will tell us. he continues in the face of higher growth and more inflation to prioritize the growth. in election years, that's what happens. >> powell spoke after those numbers released on good friday. i was kind of shocked. he said, well, there's nothing surprising there. i was surprised because we made zero progress. >> if we're not dealing with inflation, right? we're going to see more and see a steepener. that's what we're seeing.

and it can go very slowly at first. but these things break. once the liquidity changes and reflexivety of the market changes, get all of it all at once. i would be very careful at these levels and rates. >> cem, thank you for your time today. i know it's a busy session. deirdre tyler, back to you. >> rick santelli, thank you very much. as we head to a break, a quick power check on the positive side. phillips 66, on the negative side, humana hit by lower than expected medicare rates. it is down nearly 14%. details further ahead. we will be right back.

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you want powerful. get powerful. get real deal speed, reliability and power with xfinity. she shoots from here? that's kinda my thing. ♪ welcome back to "power lunch." i'm kate rueny with your cnbc news update. long-awaited biden administration ban on menthol cigarettes. they wanted to put the ban in place last august initially. the white house and officials said they would need until this march to review that rule, anti-smoking groups filed the suit as soon as that deadline passed.

katie perry, stevie eilish called for curves on artificial intelligence in the music industry and signed on to an open letter companies need to stop using their words to train ai models. it robs musicians of their royalties. elon musk x announced the appointment of two new employees to oversee safety on the platform after two people who previously held the title of safety head left the post after less than a year. x faced a rocky 18 months with musk at the helm. they have seen the disbanding of trust and safety council and advertising exodus. back over to you. >> i'll pick it up. thank you very much, kate. meantime, the dow right now down about 450 points. 437 to be exact. bob is at the new york stock exchange to explain more on what's driving the markets right now. >> tyler, all the selling really happened a the open. just look at the s&p 500. it's been remarkably narrow

trading range. down 1% right at the open. essentially down 1% the whole day. so higher yields are the problem here. and the 10-year yield breaking out the the highest level since the end of november. this is really on concerns about sticky inflation and stronger economic growth. you look at sectors when rates move up, strong high growth stocks usual lu get hit and that means tech and semis all hit hard. the semiconductor down 2%. arc innovation, cathy woods fund down 3%. it's down about 5% in the last couple days. when rates go up, you see home builders also usually get hit. lennar, horton, pulte down 5%. they're up about 50% since november. so you really got to keep this in perspective. these are a pretty modest declines here. there's a totally separate issue with healthcare hit hard on where the government will only allow a small increase in medicare advantage. 3.7%. that's a disappointment to the healthcare providers who wanted

more. elevated utilization rates reported from these two. a bit of a double whammy with these stocks. that's a major story today. united health down 7%. one bright spot is energy oil over $85. new highs refiners have just been flying. phillips and valero, expiration, all hitting 52-week highs as well. so just wrap it up, look at the s&p 500. remember, on thursday, we hit an historic high. we are 1.3% below that historic high essentially. so just sort of keep that in mind, guys. the important thing is the market up trend is still very much in tech right now. back to you. >> despite the red on your screen today. we have been talking about commodities a lot today. when you see higher bond yields, the gut reaction, tech which you're buying more for growth isn't going to do as well. i go back to last year when you saw the higher bond yields, the megacaps held up very well because they're more garpy.

growth at a reasonable price. do you think the same thing could happen at this time around. they'll prove more resilient than some of the other sectors, more speculative tech. you mentioned cathy woods ark not surprisingly down. >> the garpe story is they're not stupidly priced. 32 times on nvidia. given the growth potential for companies like those, these numbers are not crazy. yes, i think they'll hold up a lot better. this is a little bit of a knee jerk reaction here. ginn the moves we had, really people should be very happy. first off, we're getting strong economic growth. part of the reaction yesterday's numbers as well, which was stronger than expected generally, so the u market has already gone from the expectation of six interest rate cuts to three and hit historic highs on that. now we're going from three to 2.5 maybe and maybe towards 2. and we're still only 1.3%.

when you combine the resilient economy we had with the very strong advanced decline line, that's a good sign for the overall market still. >> that's a great point. let's not forget how bullish the first quarter was as well. very good quarter for equitequi let's look at the chips. smh lore by 1.5% right now as investors are waiting to hear from intel this afternoon. what do we think it could be? >> we know it's about the foundry business, but intel is essentially looking to convince investors that they're going to have better profitability in this webinar that will happen this afternoon, it plans to separate the economics of its internal fabs from chip designs. that means a separate profit and loss for chip manufacturing hubs. to better highlight the metrics of intel businesses and they do that with the hopes that maybe analysts will value intel with the sum of parts analysis. and maybe conclude that intel's stock is undervalued. but investors, as we know, just over this past year are pretty

cautious. you see that in the stock. nvidia, intel only one down. broad come up 18. nvidia 18. but intel shares just really are not riding that ai wave, even after recently winning $20 billion in government aid and loans to build those chip hubs on american soil. and that's because near-term fundamentals are still trending flat to negative. pc sells, it's a slow rebound. programmable chip business is trending lower. inventory levels are quite high there. then you have pickup in server demand which is good but am-d has consistently sharing market share from intel. then you have last but not least the big negative that will come up today, intel's foundry business. you're seeing on your screen ohio right now. just the work for that. said to be losing lots of money in all their various plant. this ohio one is delayed until 2027. possibly 2028 according to pat

gelsinger. that's adding to caution about the massive turn around plan. we're still waiting to see. >> what's the difference between a foundry and a fab? >> just think like a manufacturing hub. it's unfortunate because we talk about chips all the same and gpu, cpus, accelerators, hub, manufacturing where they build the chips, much like taiwan semiconductor. >> that's what distinguishes tsmc -- >> tsmc, yes. >> tsmc from a lot of the others. they don't design their own chips. >> no. >> they make for others. >> which is why it's so important for intel to actually separate the two businesses and say, you know, we have a distinction wall between our chip design business which will not only benefit us but design chips for other company and manufacturing business -- >> which could manufacture for them and others. >> that's the case now. microsoft at the last foundry day announce that i had would be building some chips there. we think it's the in-house chips microsoft has been working and building on. intel would be one of the beneficiaries. the problem is how many other

customers are going to sign on with intel. so they can actually be the second largest foundry in the world by 2030. >> let's not forget intel is an american company. that's why this is so important because the existing foundries that are out there, they're located in asia. so, there's so much skepts schism about this whole plan when pat gelsinger came back and first announced it. the fact that they're moving toward actually breaking it out, talking about years in advance something. >> the valuation reflects that, though. you said they wanted to say maybe they were undervalued when i look at the current price to earnings ratio -- >> still a little high. >> near nvidia. >> especially for 2024 numbers, 2025. really quickly, pat gelsinger i spoke to him on a call a few weeks ago, he said we lost our manufacturing here in the united states over three decades to asia, specifically tsmc. it will not happen three to five years. we mentioned this chips act funding, 3 billion. >> the billions that china is spending -- >> china, japan.

after a down day, you want to hear from some of the biggest names in the business. we have two joining cnbc tomorrow. don't miss hedge fund manager new york mets owner steve cohen will be live on squawk box at 8:15 followed by david einhorn joining us from the conference right here on "power lunch" at 2:15 p.m. still ahead a real estate reality check. conventional wisdom says home prices should be easing and yet they're not. we'll do a deep dive on the latest data including how much the average monthly payment has grown in just the past year. we'll be right back.

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♪ this spring housing market is coming in hot, making it harder not just for new buyers but for move-up buyers to afford a home. diana olick joins us with very stunning numbers on what it takes to get in really puts it in perspective how much it's

changed. >> yeah, deirdre. home prices in february were 5.5% higher than february of last year, according to core alogic. while that annual comparison is shrinking slightly the price gain from january to february was actually nearly twice what it was historically, pre-pandemic. suggesting this spring's housing market started out strong, despite another rebound in mort g gauge rates. there are more new listings now than last spring but supply is still 40% below where it usually is this time of year. we're still seeing that lock-in effect of current homeowners who won't sell because the cost of up is just so high. well, how high? new numbers from ice mortgage technology paint a pricey picture. in the 22 years before the fed started raising rates, for the average homeowner moving to a similar house across the street wouldn't change their monthly payment at all. upgrading to a 25% more expensive home would increase their monthly payment to principal and interest by 40% or about $400.

but fast forward to today and for homeowners who have rates near record lows, buying their own home in the current market would increase their monthly payment by 60% and trading up to a 25% more expensive home would result in 132% increase in that monthly payment or $1,800 more. now, this is an average for the nation. so it will vary market to market, especially out west where homes are priciest. back to you guys. >> diana, those are some remarkable numbers. what kinds of buyers or sellers are willing to with stand those kinds of increases? >> well, first-time buyers who don't have to worry about what they're selling are getting into the market or at least trying and maybe trying to use all cash and get a mortgage later to make themselves more competitive. there are some people putting their homes on the market. look, sometimes people simply have to move for life reasons or potentially people who are downsizing. in that case, they're still in a pricey market but they would be

paying less. those are really the buyers and sellers in the market. >> the typical formula still 20% down and 80% financed or is it different today because people might be moving into these transactions with slugs of cash that could up the amount they put down? >> well, if you have the cash, look, it will make you much more competitive and you'll get a lower mortgage rate if you put more down. really we're seeing people go towards fha loans which is 3% down and paying the mortgage insurance. first-time buyers, it's getting that down payment that is really the hardest entry to this market because they don't have the cash with rent so high. >> all right, diana, thank you very much. diana olick reporting. shares of tesla lower after a big miss first quarter in deliveries. we'll ask our trader if it's time to buy the dip or stay away. that and more when we come back in two minutes.

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shares of united health and the biggest reason for the dow's big drop today. joining us to explain what is

ailing unh and other health insurers, bertha. >> it's basically medicare advantage. there facing disappointing payment rates for 2025. a higher medical usage among seniors and others already pressuring markets. the seniors for medicare and medicaid say in 2025, there will be a 3.7% payment increase on average. in january, people that there were going to raise it more. scott fedele says the effective rate amounts to is 16 basis point cut between other factors. for humana, their shares are sinking to a four-year low on the news today after the cms initial notice that he rate would amount to 1.6% rate cut for its plans with the rate now confirmed. they cut the start. environment poses a big headwind for humana which covered 70% of its revenue from

ma. united health is just as big and medicare advantage. on the services side with 90,000 doctors it can concoct more easily than most of its peers. they can also get a boost from the recently acquired oak street primary health care services. sigma is in the process of selling its small medicare business. the rate pressure comes at a time when seniors are utilizing more medical care, coming back on services or raising premiums to risk losing market shares. it puts them in a tough spot as we looked at 2025. >> bertha, thanks very much. bertha coombs. time for today's 20 stock lunch. we will pick up on that thought. scott nations, president of indexes. first up today, scott, is the ever mentioned humana. what is your trade here? >> this is a long term by even though as bertha laid out. a lot of medicated space.

they're the worst performer in the s&p, down 14%. why? the medicare advantage program is generally a great business, and it's fairly priced. it's not cheap, but not expensive. i'm not a big fan of technical analysis here, but for humana to -- the one strength indicator i pay attention to says it is oversold here. >> next, downgrading five homebuilders to underperform the neutral. saying that a decline is likely . we were just talking about this with diana. shares are down more than 3% today. what is your trade on dr horton? >> dr horton is a bike, but brace yourself. i will explain why in a little bit. the homebuilders have done a

wonderful job of managing higher interest rates. they are higher over one month and one year at times. the forward pe of 11 means it's a bargain but eps growth is not going to be enough because with a rate of 1.6, dr horton is just about half again as volatile as the overall market. this means it's a bargain. that means hold onto your hat. >> let's move on to the stock that everyone used to love, but now everyone likes to walk on. tesla. shares of the ev maker under pressure after deliveries have dropped 8.5% from a year ago. your trade on tesla? >> tesla is a whole to a cell. as you can see there at 5.5% on the news. the problem is the deliveries being down 8.5% was worse than expected. it's the first year-over-year decline for the company since

2020. i think your point, investors are finally getting over the crush that they had on the lawn. the real is the company has to produce. with a forward pe of 55, they have to grow for the share price to stay in place. it just fell out of the 10 biggest names in the s&p 500. it is now behind both j.p. morgan and visa. it's tough to see how this will stop for tesla. >> finally, what we're seeing in the markets today it feels like there are worries about how many rate cuts may or may not be on the table this year. could you make the argument that the economy is better for stocks and looser policy? >> we started the day with a big increase in the 10 year rate, and we had an increase in the 10 year rate yesterday. some ugliness as far as stock prices should not be a surprise to anybody. my take away is this. with the unemployment rate below 5% and inflation at

nearly 3% or above 3%, why in the world would we expect the federal reserve to be cutting rates in june? >> thank you very much. sct tis thotnaonwi us today. we will be right back. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley

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tailor the platforms to your unique needs with nearly endless customization. and track market trends with up-to-the-minute news and insights. trade brilliantly with schwab. let's look at the market for you. the dow industrial off of 430%. the main reason as bertha coombs pointed out, or one of the reasons, the severe selloff in united health. it's a $400 share stock. it's meaningful because there is a price -weighted index. at that level of price it will affect the dow more than it would affect for example the s&p 500. there you see that four and 57.

one of the highest prices along with microsoft. >> some of the air coming out of the tech trade a little bit. as bob was saying earlier, it's such a strong first quarter that this might actually be a sign of the healthy market. >> speaking of, bitcoin coming down significantly over the last couple of days. we've got a big guest in the lineup tomorrow on power lines. thanks for watching. >> welcome to closing bell. i'm scott walker live from the new york stock exchange. rising anxieties over the rally is the jump in interest rates is sending stocks falling today. we will ask experts over the final stretch whether the markets are likely to continue to go down from here and where they are likely to go. in the eantime, your scorecard with 60 minutes to go and regulations look like this. under pressure most of the session today. we are off the worst levels. the 10