ppi was hot yesterday and all that happened was the nasdaq went to an all-time high. as i said, one day after producer prices. it's wednesday, may 15th, 2024. and "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ good morning and welcome to "squawk box" right here on cnbc. we are live at the nasdaq market site in times square. i'm andrew ross sorkin along with joe kernen. becky is off today. we have a lot going on. we've investigate a guest in the house. you might have heard his voice. we'll keep it as a advertise. nasdaq up about a point, the s&p 500 up about 2 points. yes, now we go from that to this. meme stocks. here's where things stanlds. game stop sitting up 10% right

now. amc up 10%. sunpower corporation has dropped. watch that volatility. and our good friends at black berry are up a little over 1.5% after what was a wild, wide ride yesterday. we'll talk more about that and the implications of that. are we back? are we back? it's like going in a time machine. treasury yields, we should mention this. copper prices hitting a record high overnight. 5.02 per pound in an effort to build the global economist maybe something we'll talk about with our secret mystery guest who knows a lot about evs and cars and other things. >> so gamestop's up, sorkin, today. >> it is.

but not as much as it was. >> it opened at almost 65 yesterday. >> it did. >> it closed at 48. >> it did. today we're in the mid-50s. we're not hitting the crazy high we hit yesterday. i'm torn. there's no doubt, i agree with you, it's like certifiably insane, but then there are people that write in, so you clowns think it's okay for hedge funds to have naked shorts and do this and do that, but it's not okay when the individual investor decides to get involved and cause a short squeeze to these hedgers that are screwing us all the time. >> this isn't even short squeeze. they're squeezing themselves. that's what we keep saying. >> there are huge losses in people that were short these stocks yesterday. almost a billion dollars. >> it's very, very hard to borrow this stock though. >> it's harder when you can do it naked.

>> i'm playing into all of the -- right? the -- >> the whole idea that the little guy is somehow screwing the big guy. >> no, the big guy is crewing the big guy. >> but the sad part is the big guy is screwing the little guy and the big guy doesn't even know it. that's the problem. >> okay. well, i just am throwing you some red meat. i don't even want to be involved to be honest with you. i thinks are quiet right now. >> your reddit account is doing okay? >> i don't know about red it. i would never look at that. how about yours? bring it on. you're comfortable in your own skin. on today's agenda, addai after producer prices came in hotter

than expected, we'll get the april read on consumer prices. remember this. expect a jump of 0.4% from the prior month. write that down and 3.4% year over year, and we'll also get some april reday sales data. but you saw what happened yesterday. it was hot. i think ai is overcoming multiple expansion. >> right. >> people want the rates to come down because of multiple expansion. but if it's not going to happen, they're looking at the underlying future as far as earnings. >> it's pretty awesome. >> i think it is. >> did you see some of the google stuff yesterday? it's outrageous in the best way upon. >> will you explain it to me? >> i'm happy to. >> that's the search thing i go into to find? are you hip to this, lebeau? >> you can't out our mystery

guest without giving him a formal introduction. >> you heard him at the top. it's an unmistakable guest. >> are you ready for this? >> ai? >> your boeing news? >> yes. what day is this? it's a boeing day. another day of news. >> you're in becky's chair. >> i sit where they tell me to sit. i don't look. >> you look good though. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. let's get to boeing. the justice department says the company breached the 2020 agreement that shielded its from charges ore the 737 max crashes. i hesitate to say the roaches keep coming out. >> this wasn't a surprise. >> but we're talking about -- >> it's ugly. look it. it's bad news. >> why don't we talk about boeing in a good way? >> you're finding the bottom. my guess is probably six to nine months of just muddling long, getting through the muck. there's nothing in here that's surprising. we knew the doj was looking

through this. let me go through the news, which is the doj announcing late yesterday that the boeing company is in violation of the deferred prosecution agreement that was reached between the doj and boeing in 2021. essentially, they didn't live up to the terms of it, which was -- we're not going to go into all of the details. keep your nose clean, run a business that is supposed to be doing what it's doing in terms of regulations, meetings, et cetera. they didn't do that. the department of justice's next move in terms of what they're going to pursue in terms of a penalty off of this, that remains unclear. we'll find out about that sometime in the next 30 to 45 days. this all stems from the original 737 max crashes, the two that took so many lives that initiated the investigation from the doj which ultimately lead to dennis mullenburg leashing the company and all the restrictions that were put in place. that was 2021. the penalty at that time was

$2.5 billion as part of this deferred prosecution agreement. yesterday both issued this statement in response to the dj. we believe we have honored the terms of that agreement, speaking to the 2021 doj agreement -- and we hook forward to responding to the department on that issue, as we take a look at this. people knew this was coming in some fashion chlg they have until june 13th to make a response, and, look, ultimately the doj will decide what they're going to do here. my gut tells me, and this is pure speculation, my gut says, a bigger fine, tighter restrictions, and probably some type of a monitor, a court monitor who's going to be appointed. the doj is going to say, you couldn't do it on your own, okay, we'll have somebody who's going to have to be a hall monitor. >> don't they have hall monitors all over the company? >> yes, because you have the faa regulators who were there, yes, but i think the doj is going to

go even further and say, we want somebody, not just the faa, which is looking at how the company is living up to the regulations in terms of aviation safety. we want somebody to make sure you are actually putting in the changes that were supposed to be in place that should have prevented what happened with alaska airlines. >> by the way, given all the hall monitors, we blame being all the time. where was the faa? if the faa is living inside the company, is there blame there or not? >> there is questioning in terms of should they have been more involved in the scrutiny of boeing. the way it's set up for all aircraft manufacturing is they're a designated authority. in other words, you would be a boeing employee. you're working on the maxx. and at some point they need to have somebody check off on things. you are employed be i boeing. what you hear people say all the

time is why aren't there more official faa inspectors like there are now at the max plant and we have more and more of them. well, that would require congress and the faa to have greater funding, and washington didn't want to say, look, let's employ thousands of inspectors to be at this plant or at the airbus plant. >> if this were a documentary on netflix, this wouldn't be a mini series of four episodes. you would have five seasons. >> yes. >> it started with the first maxx crash and everyone said it was the pilot. >> it's the way the software was designed. >> okay. there was the second one. and then so many times, it's okay, we've put this behind us and we can move forward. >> correct. >> only to see something else happen. what was it center. >> yeah. >> the crashes were in '19. '18, '19.

>> so five years. you can see in business courses how not to. >> absolutely, absolutely. to bring this back to the doj, what the doj is going to say, is, look, is there an investigation going to come up where they'll say, a-ha, i it was this person. no, i think it was sloppy manufacturing and they didn't have the processes in place. now the dj will saying okay, you didn't do it under the deferred prosecution agreement. now we slap you with a fine and put a monitor in, something like that. the doj is going to say, we need greater assurity that you will follow the rules. >> meanwhile it's like 1 in 6 million, no mistakes. when i walk on boeing, i'm still in awe of the airline and how safe it is. >> absolutely. >> so it's weird. it gets a lot of attention and a lot of publicity, but instead of one out of 6 million it's one

out of 4. it's still really good. i love boeing and i want it to be a great american dindustry. >> you're right. when you talk about it, the country needs boeing, the airlines need boeing, but what they need to do is get their act together. >> i like what andrew says. it's the government's fault. it's always for me. it's always the government's fault. so are we on this together? >> i'm rethinking my position. >> faa. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> you know who'srunning the government? >> i know how you think. it's been a wild week as we mentioned at the top of the show for meme stocks, and it's only wednesday.

we're going to look. at 10:00 a.m. sara eisen is in israel for a special interview with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. "squawk box" returns after this. your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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grandpa! what's this, ellie? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooooo! whoa! on your wing, grandpa! welcome back to "squawk box." gamestop up. joining us is eric so.

i keep shaking my head at this, saying we're living in somekind of time machine. you know, there are folks online who are very unhappy with that perspective. what's yours? >> thanks for having me on. i think the headline for today has to be the meme stocks are roaring back thanks to roaring kitty. i teach my students that they move to business fundamentals and market sentiment which reflects periods of heightened demand that have little to do with fundamentals. when they fail to perform, savvy investors jump in early. but that initial buying pressure tends to create more upward price pressure which feeds into fomo for other investors who jump in and the cycle continues. in stream cases this can lead to

sustained bubbles in asset prices. what we need is a clear signal that a wave is formal. that's where roaring kitty jumps in. they can create meaningful movements in price when they band today. >> eric, i hear all of that. i want to understand why whether you think this is some kind of manipulation, whether something should be done about it. the reason i say that, i know people are probably saying -- there are people trading this saying, sorkin, stop it, it's not your job to protect us, and, in fact, you're not protecting us, you're protecting the man, whoever you think the man is, but the truth is a lot of people the last time around who saw this movie -- we know the movie, we know how it ends in advance. like you know how it ends and it happens anyway, so what are folks is up po issed to do about it. most people involved in this are going to lose money.

>> yes, you can think about potential regulation from an ethical or practical perspective. i think from a practical perspective, it's goes doing be hard to rein in some of this in a meaningful way. when you look at what roaring kitty posted in recent days, it hardly reaches the threshold of stock manipulation. just from an ethical standpoint, i understand the desire for orderly and fair financial markets, but i think it comes with some cost of potential regulation including disenfranchising, investors who are underfinanced in the financial markets. i understand the desire for it, but implementing it i think poses some significant hurdles. >> so you think if you -- you think that the retail investor is not -- i would argue un-fort

natalie. one of the things we try to do doed on this is trying to democratize this in some way, but the truth is the man that -- you know, a hedge fund that has, you know, several hundred million dollar a year in some cases budget to buy satellite data and information and research that others can't get access to which is completely legal make it difficult on daily trading, not long term -- daily trade, it makes the trading field not feel sfleerchl that's true. i understand that sentiment. i think further putting in regulations, restrictions on retail trading is only likely to amplify that. for example, if the s.e.c. were to take advantage of it, i don't know -- >> i don't know what the action would be.

what would be the reaction? would you post a guy leerning forward in a chair? what would that look like? what would you tell the judge? >> that's exactly right. yesterday you had the kmugser on. i think that illustrates some of the practical limitations of any potential regulation. so whey heard folks talk about is the need for more stopgaps and limits on who has access to markets not just in terms of equities but other assets like options, and my opponent is these types of restrictions are likely to disenfranchise investors who would otherwise put their money outside of asset markets, but i think that's a problem. >> let's say roaring kitty knew what the outcome was going to be and knew that before he loaded up. it's almost front-running, isn't

it? >> yeah, will, i think that, you know, building positions and then rallying others to come in is -- you know, could be considered front running. i think that's par for the course in other asset markets. we see short sellers all the time, trying to convince others to jump in. i think the distinctions are rather gray. >> it's not inside info, but you're the only person that knows. >> the complication is when you -- if you share the information with people beforehand, you're effectively creating teams of people, that's a different story and then if you could extrapolate it out in a red it version. >> if it's not a problem, it's a helluva ding if you can do it. i mean this guy, he probably knew. think if you had options. >> how would you know -- >> if he tweets if tlaer years and came out and put that on,

you don't think he knew full well something similar to this might happen? >> he might think i have no power naim, they think i'm a laughingstock. there are people who think that of him. maybe he thought he would put it up and get no reaction or get a little bit of a bump. >> they may be at multi-year low and take a shot. i don't know. i think it's pretty good -- if we can do it, it's a helluva way -- >> by the way there are times they come out with positions and go short. the report goes out and the stock goes up. >> that's not roaring kitty. >> roaring kitty is a special class? >> apparently. >> apparently. eric, we want to thank you. it's a longer debate. we ee see how long this frenzy

continues on. >> thanks for watching. he's watching us even though he had class andering else. coming up, nvidia revealing a big pay raise frmgts up 60%. details as we will ed to break. as we head to break, a quick check on bank stocks. jpmorgan hit a record high. citigroup and bank of america hit two-year highs. we'll be right back nancy pelosi this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit bairdifference.com. energy fuels, a leading american uranium producer, is ramping up production to supply expanding nuclear markets and diversifying into rare earth elements, key ingredients in many clean energy and defense technologies.

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welcome back to "squawk box." je jensen huang's pay rises to $34.2 million. among the increases, stock awarded at about $7 million. that's more then the prior year and a $4 million cash bonus. he's also going to receive 2.5 million in other costs including residential security and consulting fees, but that's kind of pocket change compared to the stock he owes. >> he got it in stoxx performance. >> so the stock is higher than 32 million.

yes. if you talk about relative industries that are highly paid. >> right. and as we point out, if you've got a lefty that's got a fastball and a slider and a -- you know, 24 years old, they're worth more than $32 million a year, are they not? >> who are you referring to? >> it could be any left-hander or jennifer lawrence. get her in the rate movie with the right costar. >> she's making so much more money than anybody in holiday, than anybody in hollywood. >> that's because he owns the stock. >> he's the founder. >> right. vanguard has salim ramji as vanguard's new ceo.

it's the first time in vanguard's 50-year history it's putting an outsider in charge. he starts in july. i was flabbergasted by the charts you had yesterday with it and the performance -- in one of the greatest markets of all time, each one of those etfs down 30%? >> closed in funds. >> and i know the difference. it sounded great. >> there's no volatility. >> it goes to 7, but there's no volatility once it gets to 7, and it has nothing to do with underlying assets. he made a pretty good case. i mean 1 pnltd $4 billion is just lying there. who has that now? where would that come from if it did happen?

>> if it's a zero-sum game, blackrock doesn't lose it, do they? >> no. >> what e's the benefit of it being below the borrowing? >> you have to think where all of it is. meantime, take a listen to this. jpm jpmorgan ceo jamie dimon urging the u.s. to tackle its deficit. >> i don't think it's the next couple of years, but i think it's why we have higher inabout flags, sticking inflation. if you want to do a great job in your country and you have a 6% deficit and 100% debt to gtp, this could go on for a while, but the sooner we focus on it, the better. i'm hoping the government focuses on how do we reduce the

deficit and have good growth? >> we'll bring you that interview throughout the morning from our good friend wilfred frost. google stepping up when it comes to its ai offering. as we head to break, here's a look at yesterday's winners and losers. ♪ >> announcer: executive edge is sponsored by at&t business. next-level moments need the next-level network. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. a team that's highly competent. i'm just here for the internets. at&t it's super-fast. reliable. you locked us out?! arrggghh! ahhhh! solution-oriented. [jenna screams] and most importantly... is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up.

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good morning. welcome back to "squawk box" live from the nasdaq market at times square. take a look at the numbers. no one knew that was going to turn out that way. and then the ppi -- >> yep. >> did you know it with us going to be at ang all-time high? >> i didn't know. >> people like steven kovac -- >> i should have known. >> -- you're in the area to

explain why no longer higher for longer is going to cut it. this stuff is what's going on. >> that's it. that's really what all it is. >> this stuff is pretty cool, google rolling out its most powerful ai. things are heating up. steve kovach joins us for what was a big day when we look at some of the google news and the openai stuff. >> let's go over google first and kind of set the stage here. at the development conference yesterday showing off the latest ai features. much of what they showed won't launch any time soon or when they do, it will be experimental. they're going to get a revamp rolling out to all u.s. users next week. you see the search results at the top of your page. simple you might have seen before if you're part of google's search generative

experience. that's being tested with some users for moments. early tests show increased engagement for that new ai version of search. >> in general, we find, you know, it's both overall increasing usage, and when we look at it year on year, we're able to grow traffic to the ecosystem. so compared to most of the players, we are prioritizing, you know, approaches, which will generate traffic as well. so we are working harded on that. >> in other words, that's exactly what advertisers want to hear. google says ai overviews are going to be pushed out to a billion users by the end of this year. but it's not just search. google shut off a slew of performance updates on its model. beyond that, this is a big one, we saw a teaser for a plan where

ai acts like a true person. sort of what openai shared already. pichai said they'll watch it for your the end of the year. a grain of salt, i've been watching google for many, many years. they're known for watching stuff and pretending it never happened and abandoning it. >> i want to get your thoughts on what you saw yesterday compares to what is rolling out because i i'm an openai customer, and i've got snooki start using that where it is on the stack? that's like a ranking? >> stack rank. >> i'm going to start using it, thanks. >> that's the point. so this astra thing, openai has it. it's shipping to users. i don't have it. i don't pay for openai. >> 20 bucks a month is in the buzz. >> you're in the buzz.

>> i can expense it probably. the point being, they're slipping it. we don't know when it's goes ing to shift. pichai told deirdre this year. we'll see. look, again, openai is ahead of them. >> the two things i saw that i was very um pressed by, one was, returning the shoes. there was a moment, u don't know if you saw that. you got sent a pair of shoes in the mail, amazon or whatever, you don't want them. just say please return a picture of my shoes. then it goes through your emails and effectively communicates with the retailer to say you want to return it, gets you a label. i don't know if it prints it or you have to do it and then call for u.p.s. to pick it up from

you. you do nothing. >> that's amazing to me. >> i've been skeptical in the past. they've tried to wow us with things. but the point being a lot of this stuff isn't shipping. microsoft is actually shipping and selling it. >> part of it is that google should -- given it has everybody's calendar and has email -- >> it's been doing that for a while. >> it should be able to know so much moren eight. for openai, i would think you would have to go i it your -- go to your account. >> this is just an accelerated version of that. we've got to talk about openai. >> real quick about openai. as joe mentioned, a very big

name in the ai world leaving openai, somebody who was co-founder and part of the ousting at least for the hot minute it happened of sam altman. >> so this is ilya sutskever. he was on the board, ousted same altman, later apologized, 15id it was a mistake, and finally he's ott along with another guy. they were running a super alignment team. they were taking 20% of the massive compute power that ai has open access to to milwaukee sure it's not going to destroy the world and go rogue. there are two key people they lost. >> what does this means? >> it's hard to read because they're being so nontransparent about it. a couple of months ago when it

came out, the board investigation and so forth, that investigation said sam did nogs wrong, but it was the time that people thought they should fire him and the navy tirch got away this them. sam wanted to make is the sun safe, he was moved forward to fast, so on and so forth. meanwhile openai may be moving too fast. >> steve kovach, thank you. >> if you wear the shoes, you can't return them. >> you can wear them much. >> not downside. >> in the mud. >> if there's the slightest -- i don't know about buying shoes. >> i do it online. >> i have it with vaughn's. i don't do it. how do people do it like that? >> you have an ai agent. >> i have a person who does things for me. coming up, gary vaynerchuk is next on building a social

media brand. next, follow squauks box on your favorite podcast. listen any time. with every swing and block, your game plan never changed. ♪♪ some still call it luck. let them. because you know what it's always been. inevitable. ♪♪ ♪♪

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at sandstormgold.com.

eight tiktok creators are suesing the u.s. government arguing the new law that forces a sale or ban of it violates their first amend rights. joining us now is gary vay rey chuk. his new book is "day trading attention: building brands in the new social media world." it's out next week. you're always six or seven chess moves ahead of me, so i ask you to go slow. >> it's not that many. >> it's also 3-d chess. it might be 12 to 20. >> i'm kidding, brother. good to see you. >> good to see you as well. what is your point about tiktok and what things like tiktok can

do to help you build a brand on social media? >> yeah. i think the reason i put out this book now is i think we're starting to feel the pain. i think the biggest brands of the world, the stocks that are covered here, are actually starting to feel the pain. what i mean by that, building brand on social is common sense to anybody who's an entrepreneur, a startup founder, a creator. but for fortune 500 companies, they're investing in the traditional -- billions of dollars are going to be spend on commercials whether commercial television or new television that will not be consumed by consumers. so tiktok changed all of social media because it was the platform that made the individual ad or post have huge reach, which is what i did for a decade, which is build a huge audience and get a park. it was email market.

get as many flowers, like me, and a percentage would change that. tiktok tried to do something a decade ago, which was build an ine ine ine inextra -- instragraph. >> what does it matter? >> it's not that it doesn't matter. >> what do you have to do to break out? >> you have to have the most creative pieces with the highest prop propensity. i call it the science behind the art. what's your subject, thumbnail, copy, carousel ad, what's going on on inorganic versus what's going on -- >> what about what i call the outrage factor snchl you have to do something sort of stucnty.

it has to outperform others to get to the next base. >> i think that's how the world talks. politically in real life, i think extremes are getting all the oxygen, but it doesn't show up in the data. i think you'll appreciate this. yes, but there are a drillion people who are dleshing high quality information. i'm an exciten't guy. there's plenty that's mundane, but when we look at the big data of it all, you don't have to be stunty, you don't have to be shticky. when i was doing wine, like the wine information, that will matter as well. there's a lot of ways to skin this cat. >> i think he's onto something. he pointed to me when he said humor. did you notice that? >> i think you're remarkably

funny. >> i saw him at the correspondents dinner. he's tall, thin, decked out. >> he's handsome, bro. >> he just got a haircut? >> yeah. >> we're wearing makeup this morning, just saying. >> we all are. as old media types, we need to ban that stupid tiktok. >> what do you think is going on? >> old media is incredibly interesting. >> can our billions start reaching tv again on tv or is the genie out of the bottle? >> you always put it into context. you always are good. people watch you. the problem is the ads are not thujs people want to watch. by the way, i actually believe if the dron drapers of madison avenue actually made 30 1k07b8d videos during the breaks here that are absolutely interesting, the ads are garbage. do you now hoe bad the

commercials are. one post sells out. ocean spray sells out. there's not a tv commercial in the last five years. >> is that because the creatives that are work on that either understand or they're not focused on this? everybody moved all their best people to social? >> no, the best people are on social that don't even work at advertising agencies. the reason my company exploded is because we actually give a crap about social. do you know what's going on in advertising agencies right now? they're sitting in board rooms debating for three months to make a 30-second commercial that no one is going to watch. the creative talent on madison avenue cannot compete with the kids of the world that know how to do this. it is -- it is the biggest elephant in the room because meanwhile, for the people that invest here, for both b to b, because linkedin is huge, and b to c, they're investing in

companies that are wasting 70% to 80% of their money on horrible advertising. the biggest ones that figure it out first are going to capture tremendous market share or creator-led brands are going to come along and really disrupt. this prime energy drink, these things are real now. >> real quick, on social media, which ones are the most effective? what is effective for you right now? there was a big question whether x was working, now people are saying x is getting better. i don't know if you think it is. >> by the way -- >> what do you think of the gram, tiktok? >> you're setting me up. you hooked me up. that's the reason i wrote the book. it answers all of them. all of them can be good or all of them can be bad. this became a game of skill. what is a good idea as a profession? baseball player, football player, hockey player, basketball player, they're all good answers, you make a lot of money doing it if you're great at it but you have to be great at it. >> do you have to be bo jackson

and play a lot of sports or one really well? >> you need to be a better version of bo jackson and deion sanders. you're a company, if you're a cmo that's watching this right now, your company needs to be good at all of them because there is people that will buy stuff on all of them. >> so you brought me one of these books? >> i did. just for you. >> did we age ourselves by talking about bo jackson? >> you were looking for a multiguy who -- >> that's -- >> he would have said jim brown. >> yeah. exactly. no. i was thinking michael jordan, but it didn't work out on golf. golf or baseball, yeah. >> it did not. >> golf or baseball. >> i'm saying this seriously, because i want -- i just want to clip this in five years and say i told you so, fortune 500 companies are at a precipice that really matters. the amount of media and creative dollars going in the garbage is profound and the only historical comp is when we went from radio to television. if you look at the history of how brands were built, when we went from radio to television, some of the biggest brands in

the world defined and some exploded. >> if you know, you know. >> when we come back after this, thank you, gary, we have key inflation data, april cpi at 8:30 this morning, we'll get you ready for the top of the hour. "squawk box" returns after this short break. i hope it is a good commercial. >> announcer: this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit bairddifference.com. ht. it's all the things that keep this world turning. it's the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. trust. hang out. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business. powering more businesses than anyone. powering possibilities. ♪(voya)♪ there are some things that work better together. like your workplace benefits

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it is 7:00 a.m. on the east coast. you're watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. i'm andrew ross sorkin with joe kernen. becky quick is off today. among today's top stories, investors preparing new look at the state of inflation. we're going to get the april cpi report. that's due out 8:30 eastern time this morning. headline number expected to show a slight drop from march reading and a 3.4% year over year gain. we'll bring you that number. meantime, meta shutting down workplace, its competitor, to slack and teams. still be available to users through august of next year. formerly known as facebook at work, the program was launched back in 2016. harvard university reaching an

agreement with pro-palestinian protesters to clear out their encampment, one week before commencement. the president saying the university would begin reinstatement proceedings for students placed on involuntary leave of absence and evaluate disciplinary cases of those who participated in the encampment, that's causing its own controversy this morning. >> is that a model how to do it or how not to handle the situation? remains to be seen? >> where you stand -- where you sit is where you stand, where you stand is where you sit. >> doesn't seem like there's consequences that would prevent it from happening -- >> again and that would be the critique of this approach. right? the other approach, the critique would be it is, you know, too either ham-handed or blunt or too difficult for young people. >> when you've got half the faculty locking arms with the protesters, puts harvard management in a difficult

position. >> you're seeing this all over the country. there has been a lot of these issues. a lot of encampments coming down and that's good news, but how they got them there has been the question. >> well, let's -- this is easier, check the futures out. easier to solve. and the morning movers. get to dom chu with a look at this morning's premarket movers. if you have a solution for what's happening in universities, you can end with that, dom. you got like 30 seconds. >> that's like a masters or doctoral dissertation at this point. anyway, so, joe, andrew, our morning movers on wednesday kicks off with a check on boeing right now, which is lower by just about 1.25%, 6,000 shares of volume. the aerospace and defense giant and dow component in the headlines again this morning after the justice department says that boeing breached a 2021 legal settlement that kept it free from criminal prosecution linked to two fatal crashes of its embattled model 737 max jets. officials at the doj claimed

boeing violated the agreement by not setting up and enforcing a compliance and ethics program to identify possible violations of u.s. fraud laws. boeing says it denies those claims, it is going to have 30 days to respond to the doj. turning to shares of tesla, up fractionally, just around maybe 300,000 shares of volume so far at this point after a 3% gain yesterday, helping things out is news that the electric vehicle giant has been granted approval by chinese regulators to build a power grid battery factory in shanghai. that so-called megapack factory will focus on building utility scale batteries. the plan is to make around 10,000 of those units in a year. but the first starting in the first quarter of 2025. tesla is up .5%. we'll end with an interesting analyst call on dell. shares of the computer and enterprise technology solutions company are higher by just about maybe 1.5% or so. 17,000 shares of volume. helped in part by morgan stanley, keeping its overweight rating, but now calling it a top pick. the target price goes up to

$152. it was $128. they think that dell is the best way to play building momentum in artificial intelligence server demand, also data storage, also improving pc market as well. so keep an eye on dell. for more on that, by the way, and other top analyst calls of the day, head over to cnbc.com/pro. subscribers there can get access to more detail and analysis. andrew, i'll send things back over to you. i'll have to have a think, andrew and joe, about what i would do to deal with encampments and disciplinary actions in the future. >> we can discuss that later. dom, thank you for that. latin america's largest fin fintech nubank hitting the 1 million customer mark. they reported record revenue in its latest quarter. joining us is nubank's co-founder and ceo david velez. one reason so many folks in the united states and around the world, in the world of finance, are fascinated by what you do, david, is that there is a question whether you are ultimately going to be the sort of fintech model for even some

of the big banks around the world. but, tell us what's going on in your region and explain, given how sort of asset light your business is, if you will, what's happening. >> sure, so, we started about 11 years ago with this thesis that similarly as you have seen in every industry, in every country, technology companies have a significant advantage versus incumbents in delivering a product that is higher quality, lower cost for consumers. we started in what we think is the best region in the world to do that, brazil. brazil is a market, very large market, five banks owned over 85% of the assets of the investments of the credit, very concentrated oligopoly, large part of the population did not have access to financial services and the ones that had access were paying the highest interest rates in the world.

with that model, we were able to grow for the past decade and today we're one of the largest financial institutions in the country, crossing over 100 million customers in brazil, mexico and colombia, and de delivering a product, higher quality, lower cost, given the low cost structure. this trend, again, is a global trend, i think there has been peers of ours in europe, in the u.s., in asia, going after it. but it is very much still in the first minute of the first half because when you look at financial services globally, it is the largest profit pole, over $6.5 trillion, but disruptors have taken less than 1% of the market cap. so that story is very much in the early beginning and is a real structural opportunity that exists really globally. >> david, right here in new york city, across the way there is a chase over here, i think there is a chase down there, we have banks on the corners of streets the way we have starbucks. you don't have that. do you need it?

and what do you make of the transition to get people not to have to do things in person? >> it is very interesting for us to take a look at the u.s. because in a way, what you have seen in latin america, in asia, is a leapfrog of the u.s. financial services system in the sense that for 80 to 85% of your financial services product you actually don't need a banking branch. you can do it in your app. today, you are paying for the cost of that branch, right? every single customer is paying for all that real states hitting some of the most expensive real estate in the world. somebody has to be paying for that and you're doing that through the fees you shouldn't need to be paying. and in terms of banking branches, they're still going up in the u.s. you still haven't really seen enough competition in the u.s. in that space, and the moment that somebody comes in that is with a model that has a cost

structure advantage over 80%, we have 100 million customers with 7,000 employees, our competitors have 100 million customers with 110,000 employees. so the cost structure advantage is huge. that cost structure advantage should also exist in markets like the u.s. and eventually will be really important for -- to compete. >> speak to this, you just had record revenue in the last quarter, but you have an increase in delinquencies. i want to try to understand what you think is going on, both nubank itself and whether it speaks volumes about what is going on in the region. >> sure, so, we see seasonality increase in delinquencies in the quarter we released yesterday, it is expected. you see higher delinquency in the first quarter of the year after december and then november where people increase purchase volume a lot. so it is really much under control on the delinquency side. what is important for us is that

every single loan we give, it has to be npd positive. if we're seeing delinquency in certain areas, we have to be compensated for that additional risk we're taking through pricing that risk effectively. that's been our methodology. that's why we generated record earnings of over $440 million last quarter on return of equity of 23%, which is one of the best in class in latin america. even though we see that delinquency ticking up. >> before we let you go, got to ask you about the president of argentina, and what you think is happening in the argentinean economy. the president of arjgentina in the u.s. last week making the case for capitalism in argentina. >> what? >> what do you think? >> i think it is really unbelievable to see the biggest defender of capitalism today be the president of argentina. it is such a contradiction in a way because argentina has really

forgotten capitalism for the past decade. look where they ended up. they ended up in a situation that is -- that is -- it is quite dire. so, i think it is great that -- capitalism has its weaknesses, its defaults, but it is a system that is responsible for bringing over 2 billion people out of poverty and he is stepping in front, talking about that without any defensiveness. and has -- seemed very significant results in just a few months. inflation has come down and hopefully he'll be successful. i think it will be early to see if he'll be successful. >> how do you think about nubank in argentina, eventually? >> we're looking actively. we were about to launch -- we were closing to launching five years ago and we put on our brakes as we saw the situation there not going in the right direction. now we are very looking very

curiously at what's happening. we would love to be able to see a pabth for nubank to be in argentina at some point. >> appreciate it. look forward to seeing you again. >> thank you. coming up on the other side of this, a preview of today's cpi report and what it could mean for investors and the fed's path rate ahead. youtuber and co-creator of the series hot ones joins us to talk up front and the competition between traditional net works and streaming. i don't know ihef 's bringing wings for us this morning, joe. >> let's do the rest of the show after we have some.

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welcome back to "squawk box." investors getting set for the april cpi report. jay powell reiterating the central bank will keep rates higher for longer. steve liesman joins us for more on what we should expect and what to look for. steve? >> hey, good morning, andrew. somewhat cooler inflation report is expected this morning.

but not one that would cool enough for the fed to cut rates. but, it may be one modern enough to keep alive the idea that cuts could be coming down the road. that's the way the market is priced, at least. look for 0.4 versus last month. but a tick down in the core, that's ex-food and energy to 0.3. what happens to the headline? so perhaps if it is right, .2. economists at bank of america saying it will not be enough of a moderation to provide much confidence to the fed in our view. fed chair powell speaking yesterday after that hotter wholesale inflation report. you have the cooler revisions. said he's become less confident inflation would fall enough to warrant cuts, but he stuck to his view that rates at the current level are high enough to bring inflation down. he urged some patience. the good news, if the forecasters are right, is that they see moderation is coming from the service sector. that's the area where powell and

the fed members have said they need to see progress. after good progress in 2023, sideways when it comes to the service sector, ex-housing. even if the cpi comes in a tenth better than last month, it will lead the year over year rate in the mid-3s. it is a start. a start, again, and just tomorrow we'll be talking exclusively with tom barkin from the richmond fed at 10:00 a.m. andrew? >> what is your -- do you have a personal bet on what we're going to see today? >> i like the idea that it could come down a tick or two. that's okay. i'm very interested in the rev revisions. i was a big revisionist of the ppi. i was also interested in your conversation earlier, joe was asking you if you saw that sort

of turn around rally in the middle of the day. i saw some people that explained it as maybe they were rethinking the number, not just that the overshoot in the morning, but the revision down to the prior month that maybe there was a rethink there, or maybe it was what joe was talking about, some developments just in the stock market. >> steve, the more and more people are telling me that they'll find a way to move the goal post, it doesn't look like a way that they're actually moving the goal post because it is going to be so difficult to actually get to 2 and there won't be any cuts this way if they wait until it gets to 2. so, that's just -- it is a matter of time and how they characterize the moving of the actual number from 2 to 2.5 or 2.75. >> i don't think that's accurate. i think the idea, joe, i have not heard powell basically change his idea that the fed can cut rates when they're convinced that inflation is moving towards

2%. that still remains the metric. it is a little bit of a fuzzy metric of course. it is still the metric. you can see how the fed would want to see a couple months in a row of declining inflation. it is really interesting, look at the -- sorry, go ahead. >> we had a couple of months of declining and now we had three months of increasing, so it is not even going in the right direction anymore. and -- >> but -- >> you heard rick talking about the service sector and wages and everything. that's where they're looking to get some help? with wages? that's not a big enough component to affect the overall service inflation, steve? >> that should have a good effect on the service sector. and we have seen wages moderate a bit. so that's been a good story. we'll see if that shows up -- most importantly, joe, the housing. they are up, but they moderated. if you look at the year over year. i'm interested, joe, in the idea that the market still, if you

look at that january 2025 fed fund contract, it tells an interesting story over the past several months. you can see the market take out 80 basis points of cuts and now 488, 489, that's telling you the market still has two cuts baked in for this year. we'll see if that's the right story. there is still the idea the fed can get the confidence this year to cut rates. >> have you tried some nyquil or something? are you doing anything for -- >> i was -- a mild cold and screaming in central park yesterday. we had a little concert. >> did you get mugged? i thought you got mugged. that's not what happened. i thought i heard someone screaming in central park, i think of something totally different. >> unless they're playing the music of the grateful dead. >> you do "eyes of the world,"

"unbroken chain," what did you do? >> we did "hard to handle," "terrapin station," a lot of good songs. >> thanks, steve. up next, the host of "hot ones," get your mind out of the gutter, the wildly popular series on youtube daring celebrities to eat hot chicken wings while being interviewed. we're going to talk about the competition between traditional broadcast and streaming services ahead of today's youtube up fronts. did you see? i don't smell any wings. later, fanatics ceo michael rubin on his ever expanding sports network. "squawk box" will be right back. >> time for today's aflac trivia question. in the movie "high fidelity," john cusack, who plays rob gordon, owns a vinyl record store that goes by what name? tus.he"sawbo quk x" rern see that? that's like the gap in my health insurance. gap in your health insurance? yeah, it didn't cover everything when i got hurt.

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welcome back to "squawk box." youtube having its up-front later today with plans to highlight how shows on the service can compete with bigger players. youtube tv screen time makes up nearly 10% of american viewership and places it in direct competitionwith direct networks and streaming services, surpassing netflix, hulu and max. one of the biggest hits is "hot ones," the viral interview show known for making celebrities from shaq to gordon ramsey eat blazing hot wings. he did not bring us any wings this morning, but he is here. sean evans is here. he's the host of "hot ones." >> we can do some sauce. >> i always have sauce on me. we can write it in. >> when you first started doing this, what did you think was going to happen? >> i didn't have the biggest dreams for it at all. i thought that maybe it would be a funny internet side show and maybe we would do it seasonally,

quarterly or something like that and have the viral chicken wing interview but the audience demand was quickly cult and very energetic. so, we got into the mode of programming it regularly and here we are. >> you have all sorts of great guests over the years. there are certain guests you like. is there any guest that said, look, i'd love to come on the show and talk to you, but i don't want to eat wings. i don't like wings. >> that happens all the time. maya rudolph who just par iodie "hot ones," i said you should come on the real show, she said, sean, there is no way in -- swear word -- i'm ever eating those wings. you get passes or noes. but sometimes they turn into yeses later, later down the line. >> vegetarians or something or they don't want to look bad? >> we do vegan wings. >> water if they want to -- >> there is a caveat to the show. there is a catch. you have to eat ten scorching

hot chicken wings. >> i can do that. i'm not inviting myself. you could, i know. >> do you have any idea what percentage of viewers come to your show directly, meaning they want to watch this specific episode of the show, and they are subscribers, for example, or something else, versus getting fed it in the funnel that lives on the -- one of the brilliant sort of aspects of youtube is you can get into either a -- maybe you call it a doom loop, the spiral and you see different things that keep popping up. >> right. i think for the most part there are people that we have gotten to the tent and have stayed in the tent. that's the amazing thing about youtube. it is not like these other things that are, like, hopping from streamer to streamer or they get rolled up into some app bundle or in a subscription or behind a pay wall or anything like that. it has a good consistent home and we have been consistent in delivering episodes at 11:00 a.m. every thursday so people

know exactly where to find it. they don't have to try to figure it out. >> social media, in terms of promoting it, how do you do it? >> i think for the most part, the big hits we had like paul rudd being like at us, who would have thought, or choking on the wing or gordon ramsey blasting me with the milk fire sk extinguishers, the moments get bigger than the show itself. it is a beast that feeds itself. >> okay. naive questions. is it the drum stick and the wing? does that count for one wing or is it, like -- >> drum wing would be independent from a flat. you can have an assortment. >> you have a preference? >> yeah, i started off as a drum wing -- drum -- >> me too. but i'm not. >> i evolved into a flat. >> it is perfect for my wife. i like the -- why do we like the flat better? >> there is something about the technique and ritual of splitting it, ripping it and

sipping it. >> it is easier too. it is not as -- the meat isn't as thick or -- tough, right? it can be tough. do you have a -- tell me. >> i like a classic wing. >> together? the drum stick or the flat part? >> the flat part. >> yeah, yeah. >> let's go get wings, boys. >> what i want to know is you get the best stuff out of your guests, you think, as it gets hotter? is that clear? >> what i think it does -- >> i want to know, because i wonder -- i think, like, maybe like the seventh wing there could be like a -- gets a little more complicated. >> as you guys know, oftentimes guests come in and they'll be in a pr driven flight pattern. what i think hot sauce does is disrupt that. it makes you forget you're on a show. >> have you thought of a shot of tequila with each wing. >> when david grohl was on the show, he drank a bottle of crown

royal. >> that sounds good. >> that was -- running into walls walking down the hallway. >> i eat a lot of doughnuts on the show. doughnuts. you think a youtube show with doughnuts would work? >> i say give it a shot. give it a shot, andrew. >> he's, like -- >> just sort of appeasing. no, i think this is different. the sugar. >> the sugar really could impact you. >> no, i think you're right on the seventh wing, people are like, i'm not going to make it. >> hot sauce is a challenging, humbling thing. >> a sick mind came up with the whole idea. >> it is masochistic, for sure. what ends up happening is celebrity, this thing by definition is unobtainable, but we know what it is like to die on hot sauce. it takes a celebrity off that pedestal and we accidentally invented the what is it like -- >> it feels like celebrity is not celebrity anymore.

>> right. we're like everyone is kind of a star so no one is a star. >> so, is it as -- what do you do about that? >> i think it is just an ever evolving thing. and same with our show. i guess there is no barriers to entry anymore. there is this natural leveling of the playing field. so maybe you can feel, like, everyone is a star, so no one is a star sort of a thing. but i also think that we're in a period of, you know, fragmentation, i think it is consolidated to a point where the hits are going to be hits and things that aren't, aren't. >> more people watch it on a physical phone versus an actual screen? people are watching this on the big screen? >> i am. i think so too. youtube is an app on my tv just as max is, just as netflix is, just as hulu is. i click on youtube and then i watch every episode thursday on my wall-mounted big screen tv in my living room. so i have to imagine i'm not the only one. >> the economics for your

program. >> yes. >> are you selling the sponsorship directly? how much is your own sponsorship versus the ads that they're doing for you and you sharing in their -- >> there is a bunch of different ways. you have sponsorship on a particular episode. this episode is brought to you by tums, for example, or whatever. we have a hot sauce business as well. so you end up putting your hand into a couple different honey pots and the frozen aisle at walmart and game shelf at target and just the fans that support the show, they have to do it in a little bit of a different way than a traditional or linear television show. they have been there, enthusiastic, here we are still standing ten years later. >> cheers to you. >> cheers to you. >> i'd love to be a guest. >> sean, thank you. >> maybe doughnuts with hot sauce. >> he's on to something here. >> kind of weird. >> i don't want to -- >> coming up, frank mccord founder of project liberty is

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amc saying it will issue 22 million shares of its stock, paying off a bit of debt. you would think that's a good thing. but stock is down in large part because of potential dilution issues. let's look at the meme stocks and how they're moving this morning. we're moving down across the board. gamestop down 10%, down to 4423 after getting up to about 60 bucks. amc at 116. sun power off 25% this morning and blackberry retracing some of its gains at $3.32. coming up, billionaire frank mccourt prepping a bid for tiktok in the u.s. will he be able to do this? i don't know. before we head to a break, a programming note, today at 10:00 a.m. eastern time, special interview with benjamin netanyahu, right here on cnbc. (ella) fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business.

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semaphore. this is true. this is what mr. mccourt said, tiktok presents the best and worst of the internet. you could drive like ten semis through best and worst. it would be nice to keep, but at this point it seems untenable. is this a possible answer in your view, a serious one? >> well, i mean, if the government proceeds on a current course, they're going to -- somebody will buy tiktok or it will be shut down and mccourt is one of two people, the other is steve nuken, who are starting to make noise about putting together groups to try to buy it. for mccourt, it is an opportunity to not just buy this company, but try to reshape social media in a way that, you know, would be essentially more open, more controlled by its users, less by its -- less by its owners. a long way from there to the $100 billion or whatever we're talking about that it would likely take to buy it.

>> and at this point, china is not selling or bytedance isn't selling. and then how much would it take to totally rework it in terms of everything? how do you change it and still have it be tiktok? >> there are so many questions here. china may not let bytedance sell the company. i think that's unclear. china right now is trying to bring foreign investors back and shutting down a company because they're -- to make a political point might not be the best way to do that. that's up in the air. and if they do sell it, what exactly are they selling? are they selling this app and the users, are they selling the algorithm that distributes the videos and recommends to you whatever it is you watch on there, joe? that's a different question and there is some suggestions that they would not sell the algorithm, which means whoever buys it to some degree has to

rebuild the thing fast. and, you know, what mccourt is saying is that the whole internet is broken, and that this is an opportunity to rebuild it on six different fronts. that's a very daunting and ambitious idea. >> it is kind of weird. i wonder what -- why pay $100 billion for something that you're basically -- would it cost more or less to build it from scratch? the kind of thing that he wants to build in terms of basing it on project liberty and the centralized networking protocol and everything else. is there enough there remaining that you want to buy tiktok and not just try to do it from scratch. >> i think the scenario in which this makes the most sense is in which some fragment or broken version of tiktok is the only thing that bytedance is allowed to sell and some of the -- the

price goes down and the microsofts and the oracles and the walmarts maybe are less interested. it has enormous value read. a customer base of 170 million americans and lots of people spend hours on there every day. so i think that's probably -- that's really interesting to a lot of different players. even if it is a little banged up. >> just had gary vanderynerchuk it has become an important part of a lot of people's lives and i don't know, i don't know how the government walks -- threads this needle. do you have a solution? you don't have a solution. >> i think we have a company under this -- >> go ahead. >> under this kind of pressure from the government, its competitors will be the biggest beneficiaries. i think meta in particular, instagram has built a very similar product, locked up with

the social networking and chatting people are doing on there. i think as tiktok, you know, just faces enormous pressure from the government, i think it is the competitors who will chew up a lot of its business. i don't think people are in love with tiktok. they like the creators, they like short videos, those things can live elsewhere. >> i wish this was my kitchen. it is my partner justin smith's kitchen. i'm glad you could all join me here. >> i want to cook some eggs. i'm hungry. it is really -- >> you're welcome anytime, joe. >> nice island. >> nice island. >> nice island. >> thanks, ben. coming up, the biden administration raising tariffs on $18 billion worth of chinese goods. we're going to hear from two representatives who sit on the china select committee next after this. i can't believe you corporate types are still calling each other rock stars.

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welcome back to "squawk box." the biden administration raising tariffs now on $18 billion worth of chinese goods ranging from evs to semiconductors. jamie dimon spoke to sky news about china trade. >> we have competition with china. i think the american government is doing the right thing to fully engage. that doesn't mean china likes everything we do. we don't like everything they do. but it doesn't have to be war. it could be tough competition and we should be prepared for that. again, i think the most important thing here is that we do it together. >> for more on all this, want to bring in congressman john moolenaar of michigan and representative raja krishnamoorthi of illinois. good morning to both of you. >> good morning. >> i'm curious how much you think that the move by the biden administration is political in terms of how he's competing right now with foreign president

trump in terms of this election versus strategic. >> well, i think it is an important bipartisan initiative that our committee has supported to make sure that we're treated fairly by other nations. and it should be free trade for free nations and china has exploited our freedom here in the united states. so i think these tariffs, when you consider the dumping that is going on, the overcapacity, and the unfair trade practices that they have engaged in, this is simply leveling the playing field and so i think it is something that should receive bipartisan support. >> how concerned are you about this being inflationary? >> well, i think that, first of all, we want to encourage jobs here in the united states who want to encourage investment here and we want to make sure we're protecting the international trade, the order,

working with like minded countries, and this is something that i think american consumers, as they learn more about the importance of buying american, of understanding the threat from the chinese communist party, i think they'll be very supportive of this. >> congressman krishnamoorthi, the nrf, the refaitail federati calling on the president to reverse course, saying it will hit importers and therefore u.s. customers. what do you make of that? >> i see where they're coming from, but on the other hand, i think our constituents don't want an unlevel playing field, which is this right now. what john is referring to in terms of dumping that is happening is about to happen across the board with green goods, not just the steel and aluminum and consumer electronics goods that china used to dump on the market. now, what we mean by dumping is that they price them at such levels that they basically

destroy american industry and their competition. and in the process, then become the sole source of many of the products that we depend on in the future, whether it is personal protective equipment or for that matter ev batteries. and so we want to make sure that even as them, that we protect american industry and i think americans generally are willing to pay a little bit more to make sure that that's the case. >> right. congressman, the reason i started asking whether effectively this is a political game, but a view that former president trump making a lot of pledgesen 0 the campaign trail to raise tariffs in a very, very meaningful way against china and whether president biden, taking these steps now, he effect livety takes that off the table but is not tough enough? >> i think that, you know, good policy is good politics. i think this is something that the american people want.

our constituents want. with regard to who's tougher with regard to china i would just say that president biden has been much more methodical about making sure that not only are we dealing with economic aggression but also military aggression and technological aggression that the ccp practiced against americans compared to the trump administration. all that said, i think that we are standing here in a bipartisan way to support the president's moves today. >> quick, i don't know if you saw the news report, just talked about it on the air. frank mccourt saying he wants to buy tiktok. i think both of you are in agreement trying to ban tiktok, at least ban it from being owned by the chinese. do you think he has a chance of buying it given it sounds like bytedance, the parent company, has no interest in selling tiktok and may well just want to shut it down? >> i was just going to say, we don't want to see tiktok go away. we don't want it under control

of the chinese communist party. frank mccourt and others, please, step up. what we are hearing from published reports, bytedance is actively considering all buyers, regardless what they say. we've come to learn on capitol hill we don't really trust anything that bytedance or tiktok says. we look at what they do. so i encourage everybody to step up and make your bids for tiktok. >> congressman, talking bipartisan. there are times when tariffs are rejected out of hand bipartisanly as well, and it's weird that you're kind of signing on to this. the "journal" has a piece today that these tariffs -- didn't like the trump tariffs either -- certain to disrupt supply chains raise costs for consumers and businesses, unlikely to change chinese policies and if trump were elected just see them and raise them. what we really need, this is just bad policy that they're

rushed to the green transition beal compounded by more bad policy and "journal" says what we really need is innovation. lower taxes, less regulation, and trade alliances. that the whole, this is just a, going down the rabbit hole the wrong way? >> well, i agree that we need more innovation, more trade relationships with other nations, but when you realize that china is taking advantage of american auto industry, all of these different technologies. one example. byd, a chinese automaker. the kauft cost of that ev would be $10,000. cheapest ev in the united states is $30,000. it's not because it's a better product or that they're more efficient. it's because they are vastly subsidizing this product in an unfair way. so it puts our industries at a competitive disadvantage. so if they were to change their

practices -- yeah, we're subsidizing them, too. and -- and we're trying to put, you know, you can lead a horse to water, but people don't want these things right now and president biden made certain goals and kmimtcommitments and where we're not going to get to. this is scrambling. he needs michigan and jobs for evs are not coming in michigan right now and it's hurting the legacy automaker. >> well, i agree with you that the subsidies, trying to control the market through government action is a mistake, and trying to -- force consumers to buy something they don't want is a mistake, but the reality of this unfair competition needs to be addressed. simply standing by idly is not acceptable. >> okay. congressman -- >> sorry, joe. >> you know, i could have picked on a democrat. but i figure, this is like a --

did you feel left out? i'm sorry. >> no, no. joe, look, byd. what they say, stands for build your dream. it's a c.o.n. a con. creating our nightmare. basically subsidizing the heck out of these cars. >> i know. it's horrible. >> means nothing, nothing like -- nothing like we do here with regard to tax incentives for the ev industry. and you know, you talk about innovation, we can out-innovate anybody. out-compete anybody, if the playing field is level. >> that's what we ought to do. >> if it's level. >> right. >> congressmen, both of you, thank you this morning for joining us. appreciate it. coming up -- >> thank you so much. >> thanks. coming up, cpi data up next. talking business with fanatics ceo michael rubin. that's next. we'll be right back.

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it's 8:00. 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. i'm joe kernen along with energy energy and becky quick. becky quick out today but a lot of good people sitting in her chair today. and violating a settlement

protected it from criminal charges related to the fatal crashes and boeing believes it's honored the agreement in response. openai co-founder -- a good one. isn't it? ilia -- subxeter? >> in the company. >> announcing he's leaving the company? he was involved in the firing of fellow openai co-founder sam altman. sort of made it probably inevitable this would happen and quickly expressed regret in his own x posts calling him one. greatest minds of his generation. and in a court hearing, elon musk must testify in takeover of twitter andrefused to attend a september -- sports giant fanatics offering a betting product in 20

states adding new jersey to it. and everything sports, michael rubin. >> not only michael rubin. come on. >> haven't been on in a year. >> i've missed you guys. >> been here the whole time. talking about all the stuff max is doing xon constantly. >> i know. i'd like to talk about, have you been around lately? >> locked in on execution. >> i'm trying to figure out what you're worth. your you, but the -- >> hopefully never enough. have to keep performing. delete all your supports apps around with us today, the main purpose coming on. take your phone on-air get you on the fanatics app. this guy gambles. could make a quarter with him. >> i did. had an early win on the rock iz. i did. they did it by two runs. paid off on a money line. >> what's the bad news? proud of you. >> i was active yesterday.

i'm active every day. >> as i said, add this process height other on-air. >> $5 and $10 bets. what about this? what would the company were valued at an an i.p.? >> i can't tell you. so much growth. commerce business now over a $6 billion business and sports betting business and in the collectibles business. just got so much. adding and locked in on execution. probably the first time in my career have have not bought a company since last memorial day weekend. >> does that mean you're jonesing to make another acquisition? >> not at all. the thing we're most passionate and something that i can't express enough is everything we do needs to make it better for the fan. i don't know if we've done that in the history of the company. fanatically focused on how to make it better. >> i think, michael doesn't get

the credit he deserves for this. now figured out. three buckets, also got virtually every league effectively in bit with you. sort of amazing given the fact most leagues historically never wanted to work with others. remarkable situation. my question is long term, think about the three buckets of the business, what is the pie looking like in terms of the size and scale of each of those businesses, both from a revenue perspective but may more from a profit perspective. gambling, asset life business, arguably, could become huge in ways. obviously clothing business. a whole other -- >> i think two of the businesses we know the answer. one, no idea. >> okay. >> in the commerce business, which is everything we do, apparel, where we started. that business today is well over $6 billion in revenue. we like to think within the next decade a $15 billion business

and 15% long-term earning. call it $2 billion profits. collectibles, happen within the next two years will be $3 billion business today look at rights kicking in and more than a $5 billion business. probably long term $2 billion profit business. between the two businesses, well known. what we don't know is what sports betting will look like. i love that. people say to us all the time, hey, you have no chance. fanduel, drafting can, 80% of the market. i love that. actually, no chance is amazing. >> do you think that for the -- gambling piece of the business to work, ultimately do you think you also have to be in a sports media business? one of the great peculationpeck speculations, a media piece funnels and pieces everything else?

>> long-term, media can fit well. talk mid to near term. sports business, i can't tell you what the outcome will be because i can't tell you, are we going to be the third player, first player or fail? okay? now, whatty a can tell you. at this less man a year. now in 20 states. a product consumers love. didn't love it when we launched. better every day. you use fanatics sport book today you'll see, once you look for that couple-day transition. go from one product to another, people really, really love it. a top product today and better every day. one of the benefits of being smaller. innovation more quickly. >> how connected are all the businesses? i want you to do betting on boxing. by the way, the future? >> and talking about a fight coming up, odds. july 20. a lot -- many tens of millions watching that fight. >> i want people to be able to bet on literally on boxing carts.

>> i thought you were talking about boxing. >> there, too. >> we're there for everything. >> crazy, you know, think about it. opening up a -- ever see the kids? they do it online. watch them unbox the cards? >> yeah. so, look. >> people bet on that. >> to finish on the kind of betting opportunity. that's a really big market. right? you say highway big will sports betting be? igaming be? nuft? america. 2030, $50 billion market. probably 30% margins of that business. probably $15 billion profit pool. look at that, how big in that business? as i said, when we started in the merchandise business, ebay, 2011 third player. 250 million revenue. now a $6.2 billion business. and we like being underdog. call me sports giant? hate it. i want to be little, nibble, entrepreneurial company foyting for everything we do. we have a chance to be very

different and different by making the app far more rewarding for the consumer. the other big sports betting companies are spending oh much money marketing. billion dollars each for big companies. we want to cross the millions of fans we have. we get cash back every time you bet. guy like you bets like crazy, a credit card get money back use to do buy merchandise, collectibles. i think a much better system. ultimately that wins long-term as the most rewarding consumer proposition what ultimately wins in sports betting, my opinion. >> a way to still do both. turned me into a fan of all sports. must be a way positive monetize that? >> that's why i think we're well positioned. come to us and come to buy a bengals jersey. you're a diehard bengals fan.

we're going to say, we know you're a sports bettor. upsell you in a sportsbook. not a sports bettor and happen to collect things and care about collectibles cross-sell you boo trading cards, another type of collectible. having memorabilia, trading card, betting business, commerce merchandise, these three work so well together and why we don't want to do anything new in the next couple years. >> i was among five people that watched the washington nationals play the white sox yesterday. including people in the stadium. there was me at home. and i -- i had major lee bag, i have major league baseball network. does anyone else watch local -- >> by the way, baseball's got -- just looking at numbers yesterday. >> nobody else is watching that. >> you're actually wrong. tell you something. if i look how much bet is bet on baseball on a daily basis, they are really a meaningful portion of the overall betting business. our baseball betting business is tremendous.

i'd say that what's happening is you're becoming more engaged, because the betting aspect is getting that much more -- >> every end gig. not up late enough to watch the nba. i love all the -- funny for me. i'm a diehard sixers fan but yesterday rooting for the knicks because the sixers are out of it. root for what's best for business. knicks are bet for business. >> uniform game. gracious not going after nike. >> who does he want to get the nba games? >> talk about that in a moment. what do you actually think about what happens and is there a real fix involved? they say they'll fix it. >> always have to be gracious. second you're not -- look, any time we are any small part of letting a player or a fan down, we've lost. okay? our job is to do everything in the best interests of a player or fan. what we need to get up and go to bed think about and obsessed about doing.

we're excited about the change announced a few weeks ago. going back to the same sizing, in the past back to the tailored pants. confirmation -- >> is that sales for you? >> it's not like-ish did not great when everyone's running about saying, hey, you did this. >> i used to know people are not buying those jerseys. by the way, will they be collectibles themselves? >> only here this year. making that collectible fascinating. caught on to it quickly's in a lot of ways will be a collectible. most important thing is, the thing thats made return to the big letters, fans loved. tailored pants players wanted. just shows end of the day, baseball listens. listens to the players and fans and made changes. can anyone say, would have done it quicker? the most aunt tra entrepreneuri three. nike is an incredibly innovative

company. you innovate doesn't always work, then you innovate to make it right. say we screwed up. let's go fix t. got to go. what i do? i, on the money line, like yesterday, colorado padres was plus 250. maximum $10 bet. i just take the highest odds and bet the $10. up by two runs i get -- >> that makes you our favorite customer. pick up your phone, give you a bet experience. >> yourself, the situation, who do you root for? >> a tough situation. knicks better for business, but owner of the celtics is my buddy. tatum a key guy. my boy personally. i would say -- hmm. generally always go with family first. i probably go with -- closer to the celtics than the knicks, but knicks better for business. i win in all cases which is great. >> there you go.

win-win. always. mike rubin winning. >> hoping celtics and knicks, the best outcome in the east. been amazing is, what's going on in the west right now. that's been, incredible basketball. >> i know. >> people talk about what's going on with media. a great position to see the way they'll kind of divvy out the rights and how much incredible interests and what reality will be for sports fans and owners. >> one day fanatics app streaming an nba game. >> i think you will, too. just not in the next two years. several years, we need to win in gaming a big way, in merchandise and collectibling. do too much too quickly, you fail. i still think i'm a somewhat young guy. doing this the rest of my life. i want to bring the best products consumers absolutely

love. >> and somewhat younger guy. we all think we're somewhat young. >> thanks. >> thank you. coming up, on the other side, senator mark warner with us. a lot more coming up on "squawk box" when we return right here on cnbc. others can deflate with a single policy change. savvy investors know that gold has stood the test of time as a reliable real asset. so how do you invest in gold? sandstorm gold royalties is a publicly traded company offering a diversified portfolio of mining royalties in one simple investment. learn more about a brighter way to invest in gold at sandstormgold.com. wall street forecasts over $100 billion in sales for weight loss drugs known as glp-1. even with unliked and inconvenient injections, dehydratech processing of a glp-1 drug demonstrated improved blood sugar reduction and reduced side effects.

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less than six months now to go before the election. today the senate intelligence committee is looking at possible foreign threats to the vote. let's bring in the chairman of the intelligence committee, virginia democratic senator mark warner joins us to talk about today's hearing and some of president biden's -- i don't know. did you ever think we'd be seeing president biden's china tariffs, senator? and -- tiktok -- tiktok and more. i always like having you on, because you're that rarest example of someone, the real entrepreneur in the private sector and now a democrat. in the -- >> hey, the balance sheet. i'm in the smallest minority in the senate. read the balance sheet, i know. exactly. >> i know. exactly. how long do you think foreign entities have been trying to influence our elections?

i mean, it's at least, is it 100 years? or not quite? but now there's a -- >> of course. there's always been efforts. >> yeah. now that there's a.i.s? >> even before you get to a.i. in 2016, we saw a massive organized effort, cyber attacks, attempts to try to pit americans against americans. mostly driven by russia. candidly, in 2020, i think we had the a-team in place in terms of the national security issues. we kept it down. i'm worried in 2024 for three reasons why our elections could be insecure. one, a lot of other nations other than russia. china, iran, others. realize it's really cheap to try to interfere in an election. second, joe, as you and i know, there's a lot of americans who much easier believe crazy conspiracy theories coming over the internet. you mentioned. a.i. tools can launch deep fakes

are your face, my face, our voices. don't even have to be a politician but somebody appears to be a judge tearing up bap its. those a.i. tools can launch at speed and scale that i'm not sure we're ready for. >> trying to be bipartisan here. two candidates where the difference between what they actually say and what a deep fake would say they said really isn't that different, senator. are you with me on this? i mean -- >> you mean people -- some of these candidates running in particular might say crazy stuff and -- consequently, did you -- >> no, no. okay. yeah. >> navigate -- hey, hey, listen. trying to be equal opportunity here. >> yeah. came into office, inflation was 9.4%. that sounds like a deep fake. no one really -- all there would try to even make that claim. how about this -- >> joe, what i say is, i guess

what i would say is, we have enough disagreement between americans. the last thing we need is a foreign government or a foreign spy service trying to exacerbate that. >> i agree. >> frankly, remember in 2016, what the russians did, they tried to create literally physical violence. created this fake event pro-muslim, anti-muslim in texas. people showed up. we've got russian groups, for example, trying to unknowingly hire people to show up at rallies. this is a serious issue. we got plenty of divisions amongst ourselves. fight it out civilly amongst ourselves without foreign governments intervening and do a better job educating. not judge an american phenomena. 20 technology companies in munich saying we're going to take down altered political ads, deep fake. promised all this.

i've not seen actions like that. european elections are in june. why i think in some areas we need more than voluntary guidelines. >> one of the reasons i mentioned your private sector background was, i don't think anyone really wants to end up as a last resort with tariffs, and i think we have a tweet from -- remember when trump did it and what -- what president biden said at the time, and here we go. almost a one-up. he said trump doesn't get the basics thinks tariffs are being paid by china. any freshman econ student could tell you that the american people are paying his tariffs. the cashiers at target see what's going on. not that long ago and now it's what's good for the goose seems to be good for the gander. is this the right way to go? probably tell me it's targeted and things that -- >> no. i'll tell you this.

i'm a markets guy. but china doesn't operate on a markets basis. china, you know, you think what they're doing with evs they can produce these evs at $12,000? that's dumping. what they're doing, what they've done in the automobile business in the wind business, how they tried, for example, in telecom with huawei, basically almost give away the commitment, posing a national security risk for others who buy that equipment. one of the reasons me an john cornyn put together the chips bill. in a market-based economy you wouldn't have to provide that kind of bill for semiconductors. didn't to that, we wouldn't ever build another -- >> and tariffs, when he put them on china? >> sure probably took a shot, but we also realize that china is playing with a different set of rules. i think, wait until you see china dump this number of chief

evs into germany and the european market and see what the germans do as well. >> all right. i wish we had more time, senator. nice when you come up and -- who doesn't want to visit times square on any given day? >> invite me back. easy for me today. you didn't -- >> well, there's always next time and hopefully you'll be in-studio. maybe your governor's going to be a veep! say good riddance or what would you think? >> i work with my governor really well. >> nice. see? hence -- very good, senator, thank you. good to have you on today. coming up, a lot more including breaking cpi inflation data. due in, well, just about nine minutes. you don't want to go anywhere. coming up 8:30 eastern time. we will have it, an instant we will have it, an instant reaction, after this.

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i want to talk evs this morning and bring someone in working to build out the charging infraschuur. ceo of ev passport. a company operating 35 states. 5,000 charging devices under contract and close to $200 million funding round last fall, and all of this becoming center stage in terms what the buildout of evs looks like and with the tesla news, what's happening with maybe firings what elon is doing. how is this interrelated and where we really are in the buildout given also what seems like a pullback in terms how many evs will be sold? >> a tremendous opportunity in front of us. in order to change the future you have to break from the past.

this is critical infrastructure and the biggest change in history. sales are up and plug-in hybrid up. >> are you surprised what feels like a slowdown or at least a slower growth rate than anticipated? hearing it from all the big makers? >> headwinds are similar to any other parts of any industry. right? a product of inflation. some economic challenges in front of us. it's not because the american public and communities are not adopting electric vehicles or plug-in hybrids, it's just national economics. >> how much is it a chicken and egg scenario? is it political? we talk about red and blue states. you know, this doesn't exist in europe but in certain red states people don't want to buy evs, they think politically it's a bad idea? >> texas and florida, number two

in terms of adoption. talk about electric vehicles, aoption is interesting. comes down to two words when it comes to implementing ev charging for assetholders. a billion dollar ancillary income. states with more capitalistic tendencies gravitate towards that. >> in terms of your reaction to what's happened with what tesla is doing what did you think when you saw that headline? >> a very sad day when any group of people lose their jobs. for us and for the american public it's a tremendous opportunity. right? >> do you say, oh, an opportunity for you? a scaling back of their ambitions? do you not? i think elon musk out there on x saying it really isn't. people are misreading their intentions? >> sustaining their existing ev charging infrastructure. not really adding. i also think there's potential theories out there maybe explores wireless ev charging? which is something we've explored as well. a lot of ways to look at this,

but for us i think a tremendous opportunity to create connected, reliable infrastructure beyond what tesla has. >> thank you for coming in this morning. nice to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> an ongoing conversation. almost time for april cpi. rick santelli, up -- not quite ready, but after what happened yesterday with the producer price index, this is going to be a closely watched number. rick santelli is and itting by at the cme in chicago and liesman, rick, seems to feel we have a better chance for a cool number this morning for a variety of reasons. he also thought that, he wasn't sure what happened mid-session yesterday when the market turned around. nasdaq hit a new high. says it could have been revisions people started focusing on yesterday that were a little cooler. my point was that, you know, with this a.i., memes and

everything else, maybe the first thought for traders isn't always, am i going to get a rate cut? maybe some other things that they're trading on? >> i think it's sort of all of the above, and there's no doubt by about 10:30 eastern yesterday all i heard, it's a wash. take last month's revision of. aye with hotter ppi and this current reading a wash. not saying i agree but ppi versus cpi you much more watched vehicle for expressing after an inflation date, if there is such an animal. the asymmetric tart whatyou describe, market's with you. meaning everything is expected to be cooler. a concrete example. the 9th of april. okay? a key day. why? because the euro as highest level. dollar index lower since 9th of april. two-year yields closed since 9th of april. ten years close since 9th of

april a. how is all of that connected? world central banks especially those are europe, england, eu, us, all supposedly on the same timeline, they work together and the market's expecting euro going up, because we're going to change the spread. considered more dovish. we are considered more hot when it comes to inflation. looking for this number to cool us and bring us to pamprity. start with empire. expected down 10 down 15.6. 15.6. weakest read since january. go to cpi. shall we? the april reads, of course. headline, up 0.3. cooler than the rearview mirror, which was up 0.4. i haven't seen revisions. late yesterday coming. look at x food and energy, also up 0.3. last month also up 0.4. so that definitely cooling off as expected on that. now, let's look at the year over

year numbers. probably the most important. 3.4 is the year over year headline, and that is 0.1 cooler in the rearview mirror, equal to expectations opinion the lowest year over year since at, well, 3.2 in february. see, last month was the pop. if we look at cpi, x food and energy year over year, this is 3.6. that is definitely cooler than the 3.8 we had last time. and the 3.8 last time, and along with the 3.6 this time, now the lowest level of year over year core inflation since april of '21. these numbers are close to expectations, in every way. and actually sequentially, a bit better than last month, which spiked. yields moving down, you see. not done with data. cpi index, very important to look at. 313.54 the non-seasonally

adjusted. guess what? that's a new all-time high. look at the core, at 3.17.62. that's also a new all-time high. so here's what we really see. the politicians are going to say, wow. it's a bit cooler than expected, and in many ways are correct. it's still on the index of both seasonally adjusted, non-seasonally adjusted highest ever since record-keeping. the index we figure this on. not done now. we have retail sales as were el. retail sales for april. look at the headlinenumber. it's unchanged. unchanged. a brit of a mix. expecting a number up close to 1.5%. rearview mirror, up 0.7. last month a good reading moving to down 0.6. remember, february up 1%. there was a bit of a give-back, many thought. really look at it. this is a disappointment, because it loses some of that momentum we talked about with the consumer. now, if you strip out autos, the

number improves. so you can see autos was a bit of a drag on that. up 0.2 exactly as expected. rearview mirror, downgraded up 0.9. strip out autos and gas, deteriorates. see the effect of removing both of those. now down 0.1%. that's the second weakest of the year. of the most, the weakest month was january, down 0.8 and finally the control group is down 0.3. that's input into higher up the food chain, economic data like gdp. down 0.3 january down 0.4. disappointment, of course, didn't hold momentum. to be fair, last month's 1.1 still a juicy 1% downgraded by 0.1. how do we synthesize that? let the markets do's down to 445 ten year.

low yield 433. 433, 432, big support. most technicians thought we would hold. pay attention to this level in 10s. loving this up almost 200 points. my guess is, joe, we're going to pay close attention to that foreign exchange relative value trade there between euro and dollar. our inflation cools, and the markets, they may be rallying for other reasons in addition, but this is going to go a long way, because a fed easing, well, hey. interest rates cause lots of barren and lots of industries. there is a plus side to it. the down side is -- it's probably not going to get at some of the sticky inflation that things like subsidized -- joe, real quick. do you remember a movie called "the sting"? >> yeah. i do. >> a great line in there, they cheat better than us, playing that card game. see, what's going on with tariffs between us and china, they're subsidizing better than

us. the line works really well. back to you. >> exactly. and i couldn't help notice. gold and bitcoin, too, immediately. immediately. gold's almost 2,400. bitcoin immediately up 4%, 3.5%. rick stay with us for more on the new inflation data. let's welcome tiffany wilding, economist at pimco, and joe lavorna, and director of hamilton project and senior fellow on economic studies at the brookings institution. our own steve liesman. steve, you were on the right side of this one in terms of suggesting it could be cool. >> 51%. all i'm looking for in terms of my accuracy. all i got to be. one better than a flip of a coin. i will say we got there at a somewhat surprising layup. surprising to hear what joe and you think about this. not you, joe. the other joe. >> i'm sorry.

>> finish the sentence, by the way. new vehicles down 3.4%. used to be down more. thought ending that deflationary impulse. down 1.4%. owners and renters not help from that area everybody thought would come down. 0.4. same at last month. still hope that could come down a bit more. motor vehicle insurance thing still up strong. 1.8% on the month after what was it? 2.6, 2.8 last month. airline fares down. medical care attenuated a bit. i wasn't on the right side of the trade. the market was. look at the ten year this morning, coming down. so was the two year and got a little more -- what does this do? doesn't guarantee that the fed is going to cut rates. once or even twice this year. does, perhaps, start the clock again. talking like a wrestler. one, two, start the count all

over. mib start the count with something that gives the fed perhaps a bit more confidence that things are coming down. 0.3 is not enough. got to be printing 0.1 to 0.2s but will take 0.3 better than 0.4 and very interested in a comedown in april on the retail sales side. what we saw coming from the retail monitor last week. so gives a little bit of a heads-up here. we'll see if that's a trend. got the big pop in march. under expectations in april. so we'll have to see what may brings, but it may be that the consumer is easing back a bit. hopefully brings us a little help on the inflation front. joe? >> thanks, steve. tiffany, just look at the reaction in, you know, across the board, in all the markets, and do you think that this is definitive that that streak of hotter numbers that had everyone worried, is it starting to reverse? are we going to be back in believes in a downward pra

jectject tject -- trajectory? thrown from the beginning of the year? >> i certainly think trends will be cooler than they were in the first quarter of the year, but nevertheless, that might not mean it that they are in-line with the fed's target. 23 on a month over month, yes down from last month. you know, but it certainly sl suggesting otherwise in terms of inflation. not at 2%. when we look at the dames, i think the core services x shelter categories. you mentioned oer as well, strong. those categories are surprisingly strong lately. underlying that tick down in the year over year rate we have seen three and six-month moving averages of inflation start to accelerate higher. to me, the takeaway is that it takes hikes. powell sed rate hike was among probability and makes them even

lower but doesn't necessarily mean the fed won't delay. we think they will delay rate cuts to get more confidence inflation is really coming down. >> what do you think? is this surprising? >> no. we had three really strong numbers. 0.28 the two decimal point change and that's about 3.5% annualized. still a far cry from anything close to 2%. unless, joe, and the conspiracy theorists in me would never suggest this, maybe the fed changes its target. i don't see how you get to 2%. equity market luoves it. profit margins, all-time record high. unless you have a grade productivity surge, lower prices means lower margins which means lower stock prices. right now looks great, but we'll see. >> wendy what do you think? what do you make of the numbers? t >> the three-month added annualized rate over the last

three months, core cpi, 4%. a fair bit lower than last month, 4.5%. good news. but powell is consistently clear he needs to see a normalization in the factors that underlie inflation before he's going to feel really confident that he's got inflation under control. and once again, we saw the good news in core goods. core goods over the last three months fell at about half a percent of the annual rate. core services, still pretty strong. quite strong, relative to 2018 and 2019. so if powell needs to see a normalization and the contribution, to see inflation from core goods and core services, we're still a long way off from that. >> yeah, well, at this point, i said that earlier, that they might not call it that, moving the goal posts but there be differ ways to do that.

>> the question is why is powell so afraid? answer, joe, i think, commercial banks. poll portfolios losses, look at those. they know that. market wouldn't know that but, they, the fed, would know that because they regulate the big banks. when powell pivoted in december, there was nothing to suggest in the data they were cut at much as the markets thought. i think might be something there. looking at 25, 30% of these losses as a share of banks net income. the only thing i can think of for why he still wants to be so dovish. >> rick, do you want to weigh in on that? haven't gotten back to you since you got the numbers. >> well, on the conspiracy theory that joe brought up, not you, the other joe, you know, changing the target. it's so -- interesting to think back pre-covid when they made such a big deal about locking in that 2%. there's no way they can. it really is unfortunate,

because as i said pre-covid, inflation shouldn't be a target. it should be the behavior. if it's steady, not spyinging or d -- spiking, not dropping, should be good enough. and able to make a better adjustment in this new world we live in, no way to subsidize the tariff war, bad policies going on and energy, ev, all of those transitional areas. just going to be highly, highly inflationary. especially now when it's viewed through through the lens of tariffs. i'm not weighing in on tariffs. before income tax, that's the way the country paid its bills. there's something to be said for them, but on the back of bad policy, this is all connected together. another reason i think, chairman powell, is so interested in easing. called $830 billion to service the debt which is going to go up probably pass a defense budget

in a month. by year-end mostikely $1 trillion. i'm sure janet yellen has been trying to get through to the chairman for quite some time. >> more time next time i promise. you want to talk, liesman? two guests only got to talk for a second. it's all -- but, what do you want? go ahead? >> very, very short. just say that rick is, let me take one side of a fascinating debate, which is whether or not the fed can pick the inflation rate. other side of that debate, joe is that a central bank can pick the inflation rate setting monetary policy at the appropriate level. and it is not all that significant whether or not the government spends more tariffs here. the fed just has to offset it in monetary policy. maybe one of the things rick is bringing up is, will the fed appropriately set that monetary policy rate? and is that policy rate higher? right now the prevailing theory,

not saying it's right, telling you what it is, central bank can pick the inflationary. >> either one of you going to explode if you don't say something? >> i think i might. i might. i couldn't disagree more about po how federal borrowing is affecting monetary policy. the increasing volume is pushing up the interest rate that powell is comparing to where the fed funds rate is to figure out how restrictive monetary policy is. which is to say -- >> supply is -- >> sorry? >> supply is one year an end. all front ended all supply! >> there's no way that powell is setting monetary policy. >> it's janet yellen. not powell. >> i -- i -- you're only going to give me 30 seconds to respond. all i can say is, "no, you're wrong." >> i like that. start using that. you hear that sorkin?

"no, you're wrong." >> you didn't let her go in the end, joe. >> exactly. all right. thanks to one and all. okay. coming up, former dallas fed president richard fisher will ins. stay tuned. "squawk box" will be right back. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley from pep in their step to shine in their coats,

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down to mike santoli to talk about the markets, given what we've just seen with the cpi number. mike, what are you watching? >> markets leaning in the direction seemingly of getting a relatively soft number. got it. now s&p 500 will make a run at all-time highs. pulled up yesterday at the close. closing level yesterday. only about eight points from the old high from late march. jump above that if futures are any indication ap intraday, 62, 65. a lot of break-even moments. also shakeout. now recovery. back to first quarter mode of, good economy, benign fed, policy, perhaps, and resumed disinflation. the bull case. take a look. aor. etf. basically 60/40 equity bond retirements mix. coming to a break-even number. including dividends from bonds. right back to the old highs from

late 2021. again, retirement account stuff. see if that he can hold as well. finally, amazon. not only back to former highs from a couple months ago but back here. 2021. again, going to test it. get more color on retail sales kind of as well as cloud story here, but it's been sort of wobbly in terms of momentum. "squawk box" is going to be right back. de. - that's okay. i'm not going to be able to make it to dick's this week. you can just click on dicks.com dicks.com oh, dicks dot... hi. welcome to dicks.com wow, they're beautiful. let's go shopping. are you kidding me? i'm in ball heaven. i like you. look at all these cups. i really like you. i don't even live near water. whoa, these arrived so fast. i know, right? you're about to get posterized. i'm going to shatter that glass. come on, let's go. dicks dot- ( ♪♪ )

april cpi coming in, a bit cool, and you're watching markets move higher on the back of that news. joining us now is richard fisher, senior advisor at jeffries and a cnbc contributor. what did you make of the number and maybe what do you think jay powell will make of this number? >> look, i was thinking -- listening to that last exchange that we had with steve and others. it reminded me of what a former

british prime minister said which is, not even love has made such fools of men and women as contemplating central bank policy, and i think this whole instant analysis is not analysis. it's a reaction. we'll have to see. i wouldn't have been surprised if yesterday, when powell spoke in amsterdam, and talked about holding steady, and basically the message was, higher for longer. if he hadn't already known this number. often, the fed gets it a little bit before it's released, and i would take those comments seriously. so, there were some very good points made by wendy and others. they're not going to move their target. no central banker in the world is going to get away from the 2% target. so, they're not going to change policy based on a new target. they still have to worry about the kind of inflationary pressures that were just reported. they're still too high, relative to their target. a one-tenth change does not move the needle.

it would have to be much more serious than that, and if you look at the new york fed's inflation expectation survey, those expecting higher inflation are still the majority. so, there's a lot of entrails, ran andrew, to be read here, and i think we have to be careful not to form instant judges but rather think about what we've just seen and analyze it for thoroughly. >> when you look at the dow moving higher on the futures right now, you think this is a kneejerk and mistaken reaction? >> i'm not saying mistaken, but remember 70% of the market is driven by algos and by momentum. you leap on something if you think it's going in the right direction. you keep pushing. but i think one of the key points here, and we've talked about this, andrew, many times, is the government's borrowing schedule, jamie dimon referred to this yesterday. we're going to the market for too much, and as a result, the one-year is still above 5%, they

shortened up where they're going to be in the bills and notes. the ten-year, on the other hand, the reaction this morning and the way it's been moving the last few days, i think, has been a very pleasant surprise, and that affects mortgages and the key interest rate in the world is that ten-year u.s. treasury. so, the fact that it's now at 4.35% or wherever it is as we speak, is probably a good move, indicating that it could be that the market's willing to digest, particularly the insurance companies and others, these huge treasury auctions that are taking place, but at some point, that's what's going to hit the market, and right now, it's not so much fed policy that's driving the curve further out beyond the notes. it's really the auction schedule, and we have to see what kind of numbers prevail and keep going and going and going higher and how much they can get the market to digest. >> but these rates are pretty attractive, andrew, particularly to insurance companies and those that want to hedge the risk for

their price appreciation of significance in the equity markets. >> if there's any bumpiness, though, i mean, you don't think we're getting to 2% this year, do you? what about next year? if we don't, why would we ever cut? >> i wouldn't be surprised if any possible cut is not pushed out to september or perhaps march of next year. we'll have to see. right now, again, i take seriously what powell said yesterday in amsterdam, and that is that they're likely to hold policy for the next couple meetings, june and july. we'll see. >> richard, want to thank you for that sober and smart analysis when everybody else is sort of running around with their hair on fire. >> it's like, of course it's sober. rich, what time is it in texas? >> it's an hour earlier here, so almost 8:00, joe. >> what's in your coffee? >> of course he's sober. >> little scotch in the coffee is always good for y.ou coming up on what to watch ahead of the open. stay tuned.

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final check on the markets. just for today, we're talking about. 164 points now on the dow after that strong gain that we saw yesterday in the nasdaq after a

hot number for ppi, and just pick your market to look at whether it's yields or gold or bitcoin or anything, but this was definitely taken to heart by the markets, even if it is an outlier or if we've got a way to go or whatever. interesting today, just us again tomorrow, i think, sorkin. i need you. you need me. >> we need each other. >> it's nice. "squaw "squawk on the street" is next. ♪ good wednesday morning, welcome to "squawk on the street," aii'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer, david faber at post nine of the new york stock exchange. all-time highs in sight as we get our first deceleration of the year for cpi, up 0.3%, touch light on headlines, some relief in services, the ten-year is down to 4.35%. our road map begin