fe like someone's watching me, you know? and i feel it's her. [music playing] [audio logo] ♪ hello. welcome to "street signs." i'm carolin roth in london we are live in paris and italy these are your headlines elon musk tells me here at viva tech that he opposes u.s. tariffs on chinese evs >> tesla competes quite well in the market in china with no

tariffs and no differential support. so, in general, i'm in favor of no tariffs french president emmanuel macron tells cnbc that europe can develop into a tech hub and he wants to see the region's a.i. startups close the innovation gap on the u.s. and china. >> i think it is good for the u.s. ecosystem to have a vivid and vibrant and ambitious european ecosystem it is in the best interest we need more europe. european markets are on pace for their steepest daily drop in five weeks tracking wall street in the red as stubbornly high data throws the rates in doubt. and janet yellen calls for

g7 countries to tackle overcapacity as bruno le marie speaks out. >> the war in neither in the interest of the u.s. or china or any country in the world we need an assessment of the situation. hello and good morning we've got a busy show ahead of us let's get rolling here elon musk insisting he does not support the biden administration's announced tariffs on chinese evs this after washington slapped a 100% border tax on chinese evs in response to what it said was unfair trade policies by beijing. speaking to karen at the viva tech, musk said it will be

competitive without incentives >> neither tesla nor i asked for these tariffs. in fact, i was surprised when they were announced. tesla competes quite well in china with no tariffs and no differential support so, in general, i'm in favor of no tariffs i'm also actually in favor of no tax incentives for evs, but provided there are also the tack incentives for oil and gas must be eliminated. i'm in favor of no tax for electric vehicles or oil and gas. if they are all taken away, that would be the best. >> very much a free trade view by elon musk. in the meantime, president macron hailed the ev startups saying it will help close the

innovation gap on the u.s. and china. speaking to cnbc, macron said he wants to see european tech stand up for itself and not be a takeover target for silicon valley. >> it's not automatically good news and i would prefer them to grow on their own because i think m&a is part of the business life for sure what we share with a lot of big tech and giants in the past few years is they had a sort of contrary innovation m&a. many proposed an order to digest it was a little more inn knok ovative. i think it is good for the u.s. ecosystem to have a vivid and vibrant and ambitious ecosystem it is insane to have a world

with the big giant come for u.s. and dhichina. we need more europe and big players. with a lot of investment and they can locate here the more we add european players, the more it will be at the discretion of the government >> macron discussed the u.s. decision last month to ban tiktok unless it is sold by its chinese parent company saying the platform has important content challenges to address, not just data and ownership. >> you can have big issues with the use of platforms and algorithm. i think this is a good debate. this is a debate we raised in europe with precisely on the digital activities. >> you don't think this is a national security threat >> i don't think so at this point in time. it could be part of it

we didn't use this approach. we are neutral in terms of technology what we want to regulate is for the users. for instance, any platform could be an issue if it provides threats to our children. hatred speech. if it doesn't move in a reasonable time, this is unacceptable content all right. let's get back out to karen at viva tech in paris with a special guest waiting in the wings. >> indeed. someone who knows about the landscape. the co-ceo of tiktok >> good morning. >> we'll go in on tiktok

we are watching this closely the company failing to convince u.s. lawmakers that tiktok is a threat despite the moves with data in the united states. this is still on that there is potentially it will be up for sale although bytedance is pushing back and china is pushing back how do it play out >> i'm not certain how it will be played out. the law has been passed. passed the house with a lot of bipartisan support it passed the senate people thought it might be hung up there and it will be signed up into law. there will be lawsuits here. it will be interesting to see how the courts play it out this is a national security issue against free speech issue. i'm not lawyer or constitutional expert i'm not sure what, if any, of the complaints against tiktok are true. >> do you think bytedance will sell the business rather than

shutdown out of the u.s. market? >> i'm not sure. it is not only bytedance, but the chinese government which has a say on that. the last time around when i was ceo, it was almost being sold and the chinese government stepped in and they didn't want the a.i. algorithm that drives the value of tiktok to be sold outside of china i don't know what they are going to do. it is probable there will be tense moments. it depends what the supreme court ends up finding. it will be interesting. >> if it is a sale that starts to proceed, who are the ready buyers?entrenches the position. >> i think it will be difficult for a big tech company to buy it especially when it is already on social media last time, there were two parties interested microsoft and oracle

they are not already in social media. microsoft has linkedin they are not big social media players. the u.s. players will cast a very hard look on a social media player getting into yet another or bringing in more market share with a tiktok. i doubt you see a meta or a google buying it what you have to have is a tech company who is capable of hosting the complex algorithms required and that will have to be rebuilt if it is sold one thing the chinese government is clear about is no algorithm will be sold whoever buys it needs a lot of capital and capability to rebuild the algorithm. >> what are we talking about with the u.s.? the chinese influence is not

welcome on u.s. social media does this stretch to say consumer apps used by americans with shein is just the beginning of further bans on chinese apps? >> i hope not, but i do not know the ongoing competitors or strategic competition with the u.s. and china and the west and china is heating up at the all-time high. there is a fever pitch ofdistru. i hope it doesn't spillover to other apps it is above my pay grade the u.s. government will make those decisions. i hope there is not a continued bifurcation. the world where china is divorced from the west is not great for technology or for consumers. >> you mentioned a fever around a.i. and that is not just here at viva tech what is your view with the hype

on the a.i. cycle? >> like many technology innovations, there tends to be an extremely cycle of hype there is a lot of underlining value with blockchain and the metaverse. you recall that a couple of years ago. obviously, a.i. provides capabilities that have not yet been seen and they are very valuable the hype cycle has been valuable we will see the peak with the hype of a.i. and valuations and how it will disrupt every corner of our economic universe and personal lives i think there is something to it i think it is overhyped already. >> it is >> too many companies weighing in there will be a realization of the benefits of a.i. in many industries the hype is at all-time high right now. >> there has been pushback from

industry with the disruption of a.i. with movie making and the use of something that seems similar to scarlett johansson's voice by openai. the use of content from major news sites to train the models what is the value of content at this point in time and how do we think about curbs in the a.i. world? >> like any other technology, computer generated technology and any use of the actress' name has to be controlled by license. scarlett, not familiar with the details there, they had openai and they asked for a license to use her voice. it seems as if she said no somehow, a similar voice app appeared the law has to be maintained people have to maintain control over their intellectual property, including name, image and likeness and works of art

and writings all of the things that is needed to train a.i. and you need have access to should be controlled by the owners of ip. that ownership and trademarks and those laws are important in the creators and licenses. if people seek licenses and obtain them, all is good if they take someone's ip and image or likeness without their knowledge, it is a copyright law. >> this what is the threat of t disruption to produce content with the strestreamers? does this disrupt the process and make it destructive if a.i. unfettered without regulation will try to use this content that you are making?

>> in an unfettered sense for that regulation and if a.i. was using that instance, it would be disruptive a.i. is also a very effective tool one of the things we forget about is a.i. is a tool. it is a creative tool. if you are a writer and you have writers block, great, use chatgpt to offer up something and unblock some issues. if you are wanting to dub the movie already in the can and you want tom cruise speaking in serbian and lips synced in a right way, a.i. can do that. can provide tools and provide audiences with the creative output and it can do so with the costing savings. a.i. is not a creative engine in its own right. you need to train a.i. it is derivative

if you are looking for true innovation and ideas that never existed before and not pulling together ideas that have not happened before, if you are looking for true originality and authenticity and connect in an authentic way, a.i. cannot provide that the way humans. >> we are hearing from a lot of companies saying this is terrific i don't need a team to come up with a marketing spiel a.i. can do it for me. a.i. is not enough >> if you are after a marketing campaign with a tag line and you might want 10,000 nuanced and different because this type of audience prefers that one word change and this audience prefers that change. probably a.i. can do things of that nature. if you are looking for an original script or original story never been told before, and people say all stories have

been told. i don't believe that at all. there is authenticity. that is where a.i. has problems. around the edges and targeting them to certain segments and personality types. that it can do true originality,i don't think so >> thank you for joining us. kevin mayer with us. former ceo of tiktok in the meantime, that wraps up coverage from viva tech this year we have spoken to several leaders with the global players. take a listen to the con varg conversations we have been having. >> we have the gap in the open source company and it is bigger than we expected the team that comes out of deep mine on or anthropic. >> we already started the view on a.i. models and actually all

of this is a initiative from our own business because internally from our ecommerce platform, we have so many that the requirements of how to introduce a.i. and large language models the second point i would like to say is all of these is very like the character based and very like the asian based. >> the best of both worlds we need to tap into the global technology and use the centralized model and tap into the innovation power of europe and also asia. it is not going to be sectored by population to just -- we have different cultures >> as you are hearing a lot of conversations about the near term and how we get a.i. up and running and position europe and monetize for me, one of the interesting

conversations was the future and elon musk talking about getting to mars within the next seven years. we are looking at this and mooelon musk is looking at that. carolin, back to you. >> thank you you can catch up with all of the coverage online and including arjun's breakdown of the startups and looking to challenge the u.s. rivals. arjun will have his podcast. you can subscribe by the qr code on the screen. we are one hour into the trading day. for example, the wage data from the eurozone with the pmi on this side of the pond and in the u.s. that suggested a strong tone for the economy that is making investors

reassess the rate outlook by and large. the stoxx 600 is up 0.5% off the session lows we saw europe's futures a secose seconds ago. the ftse 100 is off .50% the retail sales is very much disappointing. the cac 40 is off .25% keep in mind, we are not far away from the record highs we have seen for the indices over the last couple weeks. maybe this week was a little bit of profit taking as well when it comes to the sectors, a bit of a move from yesterday technology getting a boost from nvidia today, it is down 1% autos and retail are out performing today. u.s. futures have turned green. dow jones industrial average is seen up and the nasdaq is seen up 13 points this is after the dow jones industrial average saw the worst

session since march 2023 yesterday. off 1.5% on the back of the strong economic data still coming up on the show, french minister bruno le marie says he wants to avoid having a wel e r thhi 'lhave that next what is cirkul? cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul is your frosted treat with a sweet

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welcome back to the show french finance minister bruno le marie has told cnbc it does not have a policy with the unfair trade practices. charlotte has been speaking to a number of policymakers she joins us with more >> reporter: that is right, carolin. thank you so much. we heard from janet yellen yesterday talking about the overcapacity and she was hoping to find a united front she said overcapacity threatens the firms around the world including emerging countries she is hoping to get some momentum hered with some of the

counterparts here in italy at the annual meeting of the g7 to come up with solutions there are aggressive tariffs by the u.s. on chinese evs. you are being a bit more cautious this could have they depend more on selling products to china and worried about entering a tit-for-tat trade war. that is interesting to put to the freinance minister and if te were entering the tit-for-tat cycle and entering a trade war >> we should avoid the trade war. a trade war is neither in the interest of u.s. or china nor europe nor any country in the world. nevertheless, we have an issue with the unfair trade practices and the high level of subsidies

and the overcapacities and i'm also the finance minister in charge of the economy. i will not spare to defend the interests and defend the workers and the individual plants. i don't want all of the efforts that we have undertaken with president macron to put new industries and new workers and new jobs in france on seven years of constant economic policy to make france more a track tive i don't want what we have done together to be jeopardized by unfair trade practices or by industry overcapacity. we are thinking on all the possibilities to avoid having our industry being jeopardized by unfair trade practices or by

industry or overcapacity from china. we need dialogue we need a common assessment of the situation. i propose the g7 to the imf to have assessment of what it means in the industry overpasscapacity coming from china. we need a fair and frank and open dialogue with our chinese partners because china is an economic partner president macron has had the discussion with president xi when president xi was in paris two weeks ago. don't avoid having a clear assessment of the situation and a clear assessment of the most efficient tools to address the issue. >> reporter: another topic on the agenda for the g7 finance ministers meeting here is how to leverage some of the $300 billion of russian frozen assets

here in europe there is a proposal on the table making a loan backed by the interest produced by the as is sets the goal here is to secure in the long term the ukraine war efforts here you remember the aid package stuck in the u.s. for 1eseveral months and potentially donald trump coming back to the white house. that is one solution to come up. i had a chance to catch up with the undersecretary of inn tir nat international affairs and asked if he would put some proper po proposal ans on the table >> we made important progress in the last few weeks to use the really important step that europe took with the windfall profits for the benefit of

ukraine. are their ways to pull that money forward? it doesn't involve the same legal ramifications with direct seizure of assets and trying to use the windfall profits di directed to ukraine and direct them faster and a larger manner to deal with the needs that ukraine has right now dealing with the immoral and illegal invasion they have been fighting >> the question is using the assets to make a loan to ukraine. there is a question of who would back that loan the u.s. or g7 what is the proposal on the table? >> that's where we get into more of the details i would say at a principle level, there is a fair amount of agreement. we can have agreement to point towards leaders to give them an option to take forward at the leader summit.

that's probably a little bit more into the weeds than we expect the ministers to discuss in fine detail we think they will make important progress on the principle and how we can all come out of this with a united front of the right approach. >> reporter: as you just heard, agreement in principle, but the devil is in the details. that is what they will work on for the leaders when they meet in the middle of june in southern italy it is a tough conversation the other conversation is the global minimum tax we heard from the host of the meeting here he doesn't effect txpect this te finalized for the june meeting carolin. >> consensus will be difficult to find. thank you for that, charlotte. coming up on the show,

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hello and welcome to "street signs. i'm carolin rocth and these are your headlines elon musk tells viva tech that tesla can stay competitive without state intervention. >> tesla competes quite well in the market in china with no tariffs and no differential support. so, in general, i'm in favor of no tariffs french president emmanuel macron tells cnbc that europe can develop into a tech hub and he wants to see the region's a.i. startup close the innovation gap on the u.s. and china. european markets are rebounding, not really take a look at this.

still in the red after dropping sharply of the open. we are still tracking wall street into the red as strong data lifting expectations the d fed could delay its first rate cut. and treasury secretary janet yellen is calling for a different approach. >> it is neither in the interest of the u.s. nor china nor any country in the world we need a dialogue we need a common assessment of the situation. all right. i want to draw attention to the u.s. futures they have turned positive. that is taking the european markets off the session lows take a look at this. the s&p is up 9 points the dow jones industrial av

average, after the worst drop since markch of last year, is rebounding and seen up by 20 points the nasdaq is seen higher to the tune of 26 points. remember, nvidia was the star performer yesterday up 9% on the back of the blowout numbers. it did not stem the declines a risk-off tone for the u.s. markets which led to the declines in the asian session. here in europe, taking the cues from the overnight session in the u.s. the ftse 100 is off 0.4% we had the april retail sales worse than expected. it did rain a lot in the month of april it rains a lot the cac 40 is off 0.2% the dax is tracking lower by 0.4% for the week, we should note the european indices are on track

for plus 1% losses i guess this is investors rejigging the rate expectation force the u.s. and eurozone with the strong data points from both sierds sides of the atlantic. this is reflected with the fx markets. we are seeing the dollar higher across the board against the yen at 157.06. there you go cable at 126.94. flat on the day. not heavily impacted by the retail sales i want to show you the asian markets. the nikkei is down 1.25% the shenzhen off 1%. we had a big development this week with the ten-year jgp yield crossed the 1% level for the first time in 12 years this is a big move as the market

is expecting the boj to become a lot more hawkish over the summer let's get more perspective on this and the global markets with the global strategist at nikko asset management naomi, is the market right in thinking the boj will become more hawkish or is it premature? >> well, the boj did signal it is going to normalize rates and even if the boj does hike a couple of times, rates are still going to be on the accommodative side directionally, it is most likely correct. the one thing though regarding timing, the boj remains in wait-and-see mode because we have not seen, despite the strong spring wage offensive of over 5%, we have not seen that filter through to real wage

increases yet. i think they would like to see that show up in the data to show some support for the household and domestic consumption. >> naomi, my point here is if the boj becomes more hawkish and if it does hike rates over the summer, the yields differential with the u.s. will be disproportionate we'll never see the yen strengthen that much, will we? >> i would never say never currenciyiyies fluctuate. right now, we are favorable for interest rates we have volatility at very, very low levels it's still not really a risk-off environment. it is a pretty risk-on environment. in that environment, the yen doesn't tend to perform that well i wouldn't like to see a sudden

snapback in dollar/yen with sudden shock i don't think anyone would if we look at long term valuation of dollar/yen with parity measures, we're way off a basket worth $1 equals something less than 100 yen. we're very far away from that right now. if that's the long-term guid guideline, sure, we can deviate for quite a while. i would not say there's no prospect that the yen would ever appreciation i think there are plenty of prospects. >> until it appreciates, what lasting impact does the weak yen have on the economy? sks of course, it is great for ex exports. what does it do with the purchasing power does it leave scars? >> the impact on the economy is

a complex question, that's right. of course, it helps corporations with revenues since they convert favorably into yen and helps exports overseas the majority of firms are smaller firms that import and current levels are not that favorable. that said, there is still some spillover from large firms which benefits from the dollar/yen levels and record profits we have seen. higher wages, for one. firms are feeling they can afford to raise wages. there is a very tight labor market outside of unionized labor. that is hurting some of the smaller firms. there are firms that will not survive with the combination of higher prices as well as the labor supply shortage. i don't think i would classify current dollar/yen as a disaster

for the entire economy or boon for the economy. since we have to see the household show up and consume, consumption is the largest part of japanese gdp. we don't want the yen to weaken much further from here as to undermine prospects for real wage increases. >> that's a very good point, naomi. i want to go back to what we saw in the markets yesterday it was curious nvidia was up 9% it did not lift the overall market has nvidia lost its magic touch? it seems as though the fed concerns and the hawkish comments and rate uncertainty had the upper hand once again. are we back to focusing on the fed and a.i. trade dominant or am i reading too much into that one day? >> firstly, i think it may be

not entirely rational to think this very concentrated rally in u.s. stocks is going to be able to carry the market forever. granted, there probably are gains from a.i. in terms of u.s. productivity, but it is probably not a straight line. we are seeing that u.s. economic growth and u.s. inflation is also not a straight line it is normal to see ups and downs. i don't think we conclude it is a disaster and growth has collapsed. i don't think that is the case we're in the late-cycle stage. it is probably reasonable to think that even if there's up upside, then we might see it slow a little bit from here and i guess we might best hope inflation remains relatively contained. per perhaps, if the fed is able to deliver one rate cut, that might

reassure markets >> right naomi, last, but most important question to you for our audience and viewers. how do you want to be positioned in this market then? >> well, i think you still want to be relatively well diversified. you do want to hold a portfolio that has exposure to enough uncorrelated asset classes i know it is harder to find these days there are asset classes right now that look particularly favorable in this environment. for example, if we look at gold, i think that's been a phenomenal trade. also commodities stocks. commodities stocks are showing up fairly well they don't have valuation extremes that we see in the tech sector also, i think there are some structural reasons to remain

very positive on the japanese market japan's stock rally hasn't been as concentrated as the u.s. has. there are reasons to remain positive longer term because of corporate governance improvements which include better allocation of corporate balance sheets and returns to shareholders and gradual increasing on return of equity this is an area which has further to run. >> naomi fink from nikko asset management we will talk more about commodities at large later on in the show thank you. the s.e.c. has approved a rule change paving the way for the lodge of spot ether etf. the second most traded

cryptocurrency gave feedback on monday with the issuers an we awaiting a second round of approval we have this report. >> this is a imamajor step in trading the way for the spot etfs we are not quite there yet issuers are waiting approval from the regulator there are nine which lodged applications like blackrock and vaneck some analysts are saying it could take weeks or months ether prices are up modestly on the news of the approvals. we saw ether soar 20% in the days after the decision after the regulator gave feedback. prior to that, there was concern whether this approval would come through at all many wondering why this sudden

change from the regulator. for the investment firms with skin in the game though, they are hoping if approved, spot ether etfs will gain momentum we have seen from spot bitcoin etfs which were approved at the beginning of this year net inflows tracking $12 billion according to the lastest data. still coming up on the show, copper pulling back after going pedal to the metal so far this year we will bring you all of the details next that's in two minutes. when we started our business we were paying an arm and a leg for postage. i remember setting up shipstation. one or two clicks and everything was up and running. i was printing out labels and saving money. shipstation saves us so much time. it makes it really easy and seamless. pick an order, print everything you need, slap the label onto the box, and it's ready to go. our costs for shipping were cut in half.

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all right. let's talk metals. copper has surged 15% this year reaching record highs. investors appear to be cooling on that rally this week with the metal up for the worst week since february sitting at $10,478 not far off from the target my

next guest has michael is with bank of america global research. what is your target for copper >> 15$15,000 is possible. >> we saw a little bit of selling this week. overall, the market is super bullish on copper. i'm sure you saw the article in the "ft. the hedge fund manager is expecting copper to quadruple in the next few years on soaring demand which is causing stockpiles of the metal to run low. that is bullish. we are seeing the bhp bit for anglo which is a bid for copper. are they right to be bullish >> the angle for anglo is the underlining issue. we don't have enough copper assets in the pipeline

we have been talking about this for years and it is a surprising asset. the other issue is the demand is inel inelastic. you have a market that the demand is growing faster than supply and if nothing changes on the technology side or the c consumption side, that is a bullish call manufacturers don't sit and wait to run out of copper it will happen at some stage for now, under the current status, we will have sustained deficits >> let's see that big mega deal will go through. i know you are not an equities analyst. i do wonder how much uncertainty is attached to the outlook for copper with the supply outlook or the electrification of the world? when it comes to evs, we are seeing a certain pullback in

terms of what can be implemented or a rollback in the very strict targets by the eu, for example how much unscertainty is there >> they downgraded our ev by two percentage points to reduce the copper demand by 200,000 tons. we see how ev manufacturers are trying to move from the 48 circuit to reduce the copper content by a third i think measures are being taken and the market is adjusting a little bit as well to some of those shortages we are having. that brings a little uncertainty abound as long as the global economy keeps focusing on the energy transition and an angle, we do not have the copper available. we need more investment. that is on the mining side and

not coming through right now. >> that is cis difficult to push through. let's talk about electrification and green tech at large. obviously, china is still dominate here in terms of the entire supply chain and value chain. we are obviously seeing some risk coming from europe and protectionist measures as well what does this mean for china? >> i think when you are looking at china and the chinese economy, we have seen a decline in productivity growth in china the past few years the chinese government has been trying to rejuvenate the economy. sectors of the chinese government is using electric vehicles and renewable side of things you have overcapacity. my concern is if they are pushing back on the technologies, it will not get easier for the chinese government to reinflate the economy and you will have impacts on the other side as well that is something we need to look out for in 2025

>> all right we don't have a lot of time left i need to talk to you about gold obviously, gold is dependent on the fed outlook. what really struck me in your notes is a big disconnect in terms of the etfs and other buying. >> that's true we have buying from chinese retail investors with the housing market and the equity market a lot of unorthodoxed flows. when you talk to the investors with the rate cuts, the persistent message you hear is they do not want to increase the exports until they get to the first rate cut from what we see, that is not imminent. >> we are close to the record highs of gold. if the western investor wants more clarity on the rate path, when they do fully invest in gold, that will take us a lot hi higher >> $3,000 price cvalue. >> before i let you go, i'll

come back to that question i know you are not an equities analyst. will the bhp deal go through >> we will have to see the cards are still on the table. >> very diplomatic answer. head of metals and research at bank of america. i appreciate your time today we are almost out of time. i do want to show you what european markets have done week to date. we are down by 1.3% for the ftse 100. the cac 40 is off by 1%. remember, we had the hotter than expected cpi coming out of the uk european boards today are looking like this. the ftse 100 is off by roughly .50% i think my eye sight is failing me the dax off by a similar percentage we had a pricing goshin ingoing the stronger than expected data

in the u.s. and also here on this side of the pond. i want to show you u.s. markets with the fnasdaq higher. the s&p down .23%. dow jones industrial average is off 2.35%. remember, yesterday was its worst day since march 2023 we saw boeing very much dragging the market lower nvidia, obviously, was the star of the week once again it failed to lift the overall markets. that's it for today's show i'm carolin roth "worldwide exchange" is up next. we'll see you next week. have a great weekend bye-bye. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or

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it is 5:00 a.m. here at cnbc global headquarters. i'm frank holland and here is your "five@5." wall street wreck. stocks coming off the worst day in a year. the selloff goes global. red arrows all over the world with asia closing lower and europe with selling in the early going. wit we have live reports from london and singapore. and barry sternlich, it is str struggling wit