>> all right. josh brown? >> i want to flag a potential breakout in progress here on electronic arts. $145 is the trigger. you have a golden cross two weeks ago, rising 50-day now above the 200. this stock has been consolidating five years. if it breaks that trigger, i might look at it on the long side. >> see you at 3:00. ♪ ♪ "the exchange" starts now. hi, everybody, welcome back. i'm kelly evans. jobless claims are still near a 10-month high, building permits short of estimate and the phil fi fed manufacturing was also a big miss. these risks are rising that something could break if the fed doesn't cut rates soon. plus, new market cap king nvidia still driving the market action, but their outside gains mean increased tension from short sellers.

could it be a short squeeze, though? seriously? we'll ask. speaking of ai, it's a wall street darling, but how is main street adapting and adopting it? we'll bring you all those numbers in just a bit. let's start with the markets, though, with mike santoli to do the honors today. >> yeah, so right out of the gate, the s&p 500 was right on trend, levitating to a new intraday high, the 5500 mark for the first time. and then had this little hiccup, this reversal this the last hour, hour and a half and it has almost everything to do with nvidia, which did, again, advance to a new intraday high earlier and broke stride. it happened in tandem with some other areas of the market that have been very high. just these high momentum stocks. eli lily was one of them, chipotle was another one. so it seems there's some machinations around how far we can stretch that divergence between the highest momentum and the majority of stocks which again today are outnumbering the

stocks leading the way. this has been a dynamic for a while. another thing i'm noticing, home builders, off the weak housing starts number, down about 1.8%, and the semiconductor index, also down for the week. it's little noisier below the surface as we look towards a big options expiration day tomorrow. >> mike, just to follow up on that, the equal right s&p, for instance, had a low rsi, while the regular s&p was breaking out, seeing that rsi above 70. how do you digest that information? does that tell you there's a breakdown in nvidia going on here? >> it's not so much a breakdown, just basically a very neutral and sort of stagnant picture outside the hottest names in ai and those other momentum stocks. so what i would see is, i think on a macro basis, the message

isn't necessarily negative, but it's very watchful. so the parts of the market that really need a soft landing and perhaps a fed to start becoming a little easier are sort of wait and see mode right now. there's also a big, active trade on right now, betting on the persisting divergence here. so getting that the index stays calm while below the surface, you are sort of taking advantage of the fact that thismassive divergence amongst stocks. nvidia has nearly tripled this year, making it the world's largest short in dollar terms according to s-3 partners. there are 290 million shares worth 1.23% of the float. the shorts have taken huge mark-to-market losses so far in june alone. let's talk more about that with our guest.

great to see you again. that's a pretty big dollar figure loss, isn't it? >> monster. you look back to tesla to see those numbers. >> how often do people like to short these highly momentum driven names? >> well, this is aninteresting short, because you have not only the momentum guys shorting the stock, it's also a hedge to the overall market and the tech sector, so you have a lot of people in this trade. >> mike, there are people who are willing to go out there and if you time it just right, i bet you can make a killing on 5%, 10% correction, but you can also lose your shirt in about three days' time here. >> for sure. you have to keep in mind, 24.6 billion shares now outstanding after the plit. you don't know how much of it is a hedge and essentially people just trying to make sure that they don't get too overexposed on the upside. i'm also focused on things like, there are these leverage stock

etfs tied to nvidia that have attracted capital. so the world is just massively long nvidia right now. what you do with that, whether you try to hedge it with options or let it ride is one of the key questions through the summer. >> nvidia is around 1% of the float. microsoft and apple are like three quarters of a percent. what does that tell you historically speaking? >> well, for large and mid caps, it's just such an enormous amount of shares outstanding. i like to look at dollars at risk. i want to know how much money is being bet. so i'm looking at the $39 billion, that's a bigger number than the 1.3% that have shorted. this a widely shorted stock across all the trading platforms. >> so that what is driving the

gains? we look at it day after day, continuing to the upside. do you think nvidia is having a short squeeze here? >> i'm not quite a short squeeze like gme. we're looking at something like nvidia, which has 65% institutional holding. 52% of its stock is being he would bypass save investors and etfs, mutual funds and stuff. gamestop is only 29%. so you have a huge amount of retailers in this game. that's what is driving the volatility. >> mike, what will you be watching for, the fab five, the mag seven six, smag seven, whatever we call it. >> $39 billion short, well, guess what? it's going to trade $39 billion today probably.

it trades that much on a routine basis. traded $80 billion one day. so i think you have to take that into context. if i was looking for something to worry about, it would be that the short base in this market is really low. that's true for the etfs. it is true for the big mega cap companies, too. so yes, the dollar values are large, but you definitely would like to have a bigger short cushion, i think, if you wanted a smoother ride. saturday $46 trillion, that's the stat of the day. when is it going to start going up, will it start going down? i would be curious if you see it in the numbers out there? >> one thing i definitely look at is the squeezability of the stock. the shorts are down big. so we've got almost 300 million shares short and a good portion gets covered by they're getting

squeezed. you're sell a little more support on the long side and anything that drives momentum in buyers makes it stronger for the day. >> what do you make of mike's point that we have such low short interest in the whole market? >> yes and no. the market has been up so much. but we have $1.2 trillion shortage in the market right now, a record high. so the shorts are going up. it's just not as fast as the long side is. so i don't know if that's just because people are a little wary of being short in a rallying stock market, which could jump big time, looking at the election, looking at fed rate cuts. so i think yeah, we have a short interest, not as much as the longs have gone up. >> are you saying that you think the risks are almost -- that we get a breakout to the upside in nvidia or the whole market at this point, even though we feel like that's what we have experienced? >> well, i don't see that there is a huge amount of shorts coming into the market to say

otherwise. they're not putting money where their mouths are to say that we're going from $1 billion to $1.5 trillion in shorts. so not quite what we have seen on the long side. >> gentlemen, thank you both. we appreciate it. meantime, housing starts just fell to their lowest level since the summer of 2020. what's going on? let's ask diana olick who is in baltimore. diana, what's happening in housing? >> yeah, it was a huge miss for housing starts and building permits. i don't know why the expectations weren't lower, but single family starts in may dropped 5% month to month, and down 2% year over year. multifamily down 10%, and 50% year over year. multifamily has been slowing, because there's not much supply coming online. single family is all about

mortgage rates, which started the year lower, but then shot up in april and didn't come back that much in may. builder sentiment started falling in may. it had been in positive territory at the beginning of the year. it fell again in june. the component of builder sentiment, that one dropped the most in june. so really mortgage rates hitting the builders there. the stocks didn't take it that hard exactly. the home building etf is down a little bit. k.b. homes up after reporting better than expected earnings and increased their average home price. kelly? >> why would -- we all thought two years ago that housing starts might go up, because interest rates are high, but that didn't happen. why is it happening now? >> it's happening now because the builders have more supply. remember, when interest rates are staying higher for longer, it's not just for the home buyer, it's for the builders who

need to borrow from their local banks to build the homes. the big builders, they don't have that trouble as much because they can get their capital elsewhere. for many of the smaller to mid-sized builders, highest interest rates means they can't keep building. they can't build homes that are lower priced. so they're only building more expensive homes. to get prices down, you need interest rates lower for the buyer and for the builder. >> diana, thank you very much. good to check in with you. see you next hour. my next guest says rates have been too high for too long and the economy feels vulnerable right now and expecting the fed to cut two times this year. let's bring in mark zandi. the last time you talked, you were trying to convince me that everything was fine. >> well, everything is fine if the fed cuts interest rates. the fed keeps rates as high as they are for a long period of time, it's a corrosive on the

economy and will do some damage. i sense it's starting to do some damage. so far, no big deal. in fact, some of it might be to the fed's script, trying to cool things off and get inflation in the bottle. but the longer they keep rates here, the more likely something will go wrong somewhere and we'll get a surprise to the downside. >> so were you in the goldman think saying we're in a turning point in the labor market and they also see two cuts this year. it feels like that's what you're talking about, as well. >> yeah, you can sense what i'm saying in the labor market very clearly. if you look at things like rate of hiring, that's down. if you look at untilled positions, way down from where they were. hours worked are down. quick rates are down. the only thing that's kind of hung together really well and allowed for the job growth is layoffs remain low. but as you pointed out earlier, they're up in the last three

weeks. it's still way too early to send off any flares, but we'll see much slower job growth. kelly, you know, we put together this tracking estimate for gdp growth based on all the data coming in, and it's tracking in the second quarter about 1.5%, very similar to q1. that is moving forward, but at a very slow pace. that's why unemployment is moving higher. so all these pieces of data suggest that the economy is throttling back. it's under the weight of the high interest rates and time for the fed to cut rates. >> one of the newer fed members was talking about maybe a rate hike. what would kind of -- what's the significance -- you know, to be honest, i think the market shrugged it off, but financial conditions, we heard neil kashkari talking about that if

the market continues to move higher. so i think you can piece together the case of hey, if we back off too quickly, there's the risk that inflation re reignited in services. >> i don't get that at all. yes, the stock market is up. but the dollar is really strong. the banking system has tightened down very aggressively. diana was talking about that in the context of the home builders. multifamily developers can't get loans, so they're starting to pull back on their supply. it goes to getting inflation back in. it's a whole other conversation. so you cut that all up, it feels like financial conditions are where you would want them to be to get the economy back to a place where inflation is coming back in. so i don't understand that argument, and i really don't understand the context of the slowing growth and inflation coming back in. we are at the fed's target, if

you exclude rent. and i really think in the current context, that's a better measure of underlying inflation, given the difficulties of measuring how we are at this point. >> kind of cost of renting a single family home. the fed officials said they want to see a few months of data of basically, you know, .20s. should they wait? >> well, that's why i think september rate cut, because that's what they're going to do and get what they want. should they wait? no. i think i would go. mission accomplished. we're at full employment, inflation is back to target, inflation expectations are nailed to the ground, the growth rate of the economy is slowing. so we don't need a 5.5% federal funds rate target. so i would be cutting. but they are going to wait three more months to get the

statistics they need. >> we went back to last friday, that really bad yoifrt of michigan consumer sentiment report. we were talking about whether that report is reliable or not or whether it's politically driven. i don't recall what happened with the conversation board last month. so bring us up to speed. >> it went back up. >> do you think that's the better measure of what's going on with the consumer, which would suggest more resilience and maybe a consumer we don't need to overly worry about right now? >> at least in the context of how they're spending and what they're spending on. so i wouldn't pay any attention to the university of michigan survey at this point. it's not like people are feeling fantastic about what's going on, but they feel okay, and they're spending just enough to keep the economy moving forward. that's how we're growing. that's how the economy is able to avoid recession. i will say, though, i do grow

increasingly worried about the weight of higher interest rates on lower and middle income households that took on a lot of credit card debt. >> so is it fair to recap what you're saying, we often hear from consumer and retail analysts who say the consumer is hanging in there and getting more choosey. i feel like what you're saying is yes, the consumer is hanging in there, but only will cope hanging in there if the fed cuts rates. >> yeah, almost by definition. suppose you get the fund rate at 5.5% forever and kept it there. that's not the neutral rate. that's too high. something will ultimately break. so the question is, when is it going to break? and why take the chance? i completely understand it, the inflation was too high and

expectations were untethered, but none of that is happening. so the question is, why take that risk? >> but they are elevated. a lot of consumers are still so angry about inflation, it's a hard thing for the fed to message. yes, we know you're upset but we're going to cut rate it is the economy doesn't worsen. >> the consumer would be very happy if they cut rates. credit card rates would go down, mortgage rates would cut in, auto loans come in. life would be a lot easier for lots of folks. so i don't know. inflation is back down, it's there. except for this weird thing called l.e.r. so why be a slave to something we can't maeasure? >> woi think you're probably right, but there's a group that would be alarmed about that but think that's it, inflation is going to stay around forever. >> i'll tell you what, kelly, i'll come out with you and we'll do that survey together.

>> mark, thank you. always a pleasure. coming up, we were just talking about it. reports of the death of consumer spending are greatly exaggerated if you ask the national retail federation. we'll speak with matt shay about what it says about the state of inflation. and while the market has been about ai, you might be surprised how few companies are using it in the workplace. data from our tech executive council. and here's another check on the dow. the only index in the green. the s&p lower after briefly topping 5500 for the first time ever. back after this.

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welcome back. retail sales disappointed on tuesday before the holiday. but our next guest says consumers are still driving economic growth and every income except the lowest has more money than they did prepandemic, just spending differently. joining me is matt shay, president of the national retail association. >> hi, kelly. nice to be with you today. >> so we started to see economists say listen, excess savings and the cushion, it's all starting to run out. kind of they're worried about

the months ahead. how would you ammize the situation? >> our forecast is retail sales would grow between 2.5% and 3%. we said very clearly when we made that forecast we expected moderation this year. we know that the prepandemic savings, that bump, that great splurge and surge in spending we saw in '20 through '20 -- '21 and '22 wasn't sustainable and we would revert to the mean. so the census numbers were plus 0.1%. our numbers, our view is a little higher,it's plus 3% month over month. the cnbc monitor that steve liesman talks about every month, that's quite a bit higher than that. we suspect that census will revise up the may numbers.

but even at 0.3% for may, if you string together 12 of those, you're at 3.5% growth on an annual basis, and that's where we were before the pandemic. i think if you look at lots of ipdz kay fors, debts, savings rates, delinquencies, they're reverting to the mean, which they are back to prepandemic numbers, which is not a surprise that we would have an economy that moderated and slowed down a bit. >> i want to ask you about tariffs, but just to put a point on this. we were just speaking with mark zandi, who said i think the consumer is strong but you need rate cuts now to maintain that strength, and without that -- people would welcome that. from where you sit, do you think that would largely be the case or do you think inflation would still be a problem? >> well, i know mark, and he's been to speak at our event and boards and things and i think he's incredibly on point and i

agree with much of what he said. i'm not sure maybe it would be the zandi/shay person in the street conversation, i'm not sure consumers equate inflation with what the fed does. i think they're aware of higher interest rates generally speaking, but they're aware of higher prices. so when they go to a retail establishment and it cost more than it did not a year ago but maybe five years ago, that's where they're aware of. and we know the economics theory is that you're more aware of current. so the longer term trend in the retail space, a lot of retail categories over the course of a year, that category is flat to down. so when we see 3% growth, that's growth in a category that's actually flat. >> sure. >> it's not services, it's not housing, rent, energy. so we all know prices are higher. but at the moment, especially

for that lowest income percent, their wages are going higher. so even though they have more spending power, it doesn't feel that way because they see higher prices and none of us like it. >> the e-commerce number were down 5%, 10%. tariffs, former president trump floated the idea of replacing income tax system with a tariff system. now, my understanding is that it's importers who pay the tariff. immediately the retail industry, would be a lot of tariff to pay to pass on to the consumer. talk to me about how that might have worked in the past, how it might work in the future. >> yeah. well, once upon a time when we go back to the 1930s that put very high tariffs in place and how damaging that was to the economy, to the average working family, how it further accelerated the depression, there's a reason we moved away from a system of tariffs through

the 19th century and got into an income tax system. it's more predictable. even if you look at tariffs as a way to generate revenue, it's regressive. it hurts the lowest income families more than any other sector. and a number of studies have been done to raise enough money, you would have to put tariffs of up to 90% of everything imported into the country. so leave aside a blanket 60% on china, that would be everything we import. so there's that piece on the revenue side. this is like trying to outrun your shadow. a tariff is a tax, period, end of story. there are no alternative facts here. you can't outrun that. whether it's the biden bonanza or trump taxes, i don't think any administration wants to be saddled with that. it's bad for consumers and voters. >> this might be unfair, but

when i think retail, it's all discretionary. the shoes are more expensive, you get fewer clothes. there's a sense of the consumer can be choosey, right? and no one has that much sympathy for the fact that a sweater is more expensive because you can get a cheaper one. the discretionary nature of it seems to make the stakes lower somehow. >> and i think that's maybe one way to discount it. historically, tariffs have been used as a toole on a temporary basis, not a policy on a term basis. the objective of a tariff is if someone is treating you unfairly in a trade relationship, you put a tariff on their goods. but you end up in this retaliatory environment that has implications beyond the initial intended consequences. the whole goal ought to be to move to a system where you have bilateral or multilateral trade deals, which give operators,

manufacturers, customers, markets in both places the chance to operate as efficiency as possible. and the studies that have been done, you know, estimate between 2500 to $8,000 of additional taxes will be paid by american families, because we all buy shoes and clothes from the kids and lek ton the-- electronics. >> because we can't make them here. maybe the consumer pays $10 for a shirt instead of $3, but on that note, can you explain the dynamics there? is there a standing view about who should be eligible and who should not be, you know, or is this just going to get worked out behind the scenes and -- because i think the latest i heard is they're going to list in london. >> so our view on membership, and i think this is the approach that most industry trade groups in washington take, is that

because who is and is not a member of your association on any given day is sort of -- it's like one day in the stock market. it's not a meaningful day to the overall trend. and for purposes of confidentiality and because it's a number that changes, companies come in and out for a variety of reasons. so we don't talk about who's in or who's out. the vast majority of our members are u.s.-based domestic companies. we have a number of international companies that have various structures. in general, there's a lot of transparency into, and i'm not saying this about any particular company that may or may not be a member now or in the future, but in general, we want to feel confident that we understand that you are supply chain, their business model, their labor practices, all of those things factor into it. because most of the companies that are members of ours are either domestic and public or domestic with u.s. investors, or they're foreign but public. you know, we're not the court of

first resort on is the company sufficient to do business, we're really the last resort. that's the job of other regulators -- >> can you see the concern -- is it the supply chain, or is it lack of disclosure around the company's financial structure and so forth? >> well, again, without regard to any particular company that might or might not be a member now, we want to feel comfortable on a whole range of those issues. it's helpful for us if some external regulatory agency of a government has already done that due diligence so that we can look at it as any other investor would and make an informed decision, opposed to putting our trade group or any other trade group in the position of trying to go out and determine for itself the sufficiency of a particular business and the way it's organized, operates its markets, all of those things that are outside the purview of

a trade group that speaks on behalf of an entire industry. >> people trying to figure out what place they should take, even as we talk about whether this system could change. matt, thank you. appreciate your time today. >> great to see you, kelly. coming up, apple is the biggest drag on the dow. it's having its worst day since march and on track to snap a five-week winning streak. we'll look at the latest trends in ai adoption. and check out solar stocks sinking after jpmorgan cut its price targets. more of thbiesmorso have day after this. (♪♪) what took you so long? i'm sorry, there was a long line at the thai place. you get the sauce i like? of course!

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welcome back to "the exchange." i'm kate rooney with your cnbc news update. the biden administration is rushing air defense missile systems to ukraine and to other

countries, that from the national security spokesperson. he says ukraine has a critical need for patriot missiles as russia steps up attacks. speaking of the end of a trip to vietnam, vladamir putin says he's thinking about possible changes to the country's nuclear doctrine. the current doctrine says russia would only use them in response to a nuclear attack or a conventional attack that poses a threat to the state's existence. and donald suterland has died. he passed away after a long illness. he had breakthrough performances in movies like "the dirty dozen." donald sutherland was 88 years old. >> he was tremendous. kate, thank you. comingup, ai could likely be the greatest tech innovation of our time, but how many companies are actually implementing it into their daily

work flows? cnbc's tech executive council will weigh in on that next. back in a moment.

welcome back to "the

exchange." ai is a hit with wall street, obviously, as all of the stocks have been driving the market gains. but what happens when you head out there to the typical office complex? steve joins us now with the results of our latest tech executive council survey and what it reveals about ai in the workplace. >> we're 18 months or so into the ai boom, but the question is now, are people using it? and that's an important question for businesses, which are being targeted to buy ai tools and cloud capacity by salesforce and microsoft among so many others. so we asked a small group of people from our council to get an idea. here's what they told us. the majority, 60% said their employees are using company approved ai tools, up from 50% for the same period a year ago. but it's not just improved ai tools, 20% of our respondents said their employees are using

unapproved ai tools to do their work, and 12% is a mix. everyone is using ai, just a mix match of all these things. and tech executives from outside the survey told me they're interested in using ai tools but some are just too expensive to deploy across an entire company. and the productivity benefits are still unclear. still, these numbers should tell you we're at the beginning of a new wave of technology. this is not a bunch of promises like the metaverse. people are using these tools, kelly. >> is there a risk they are going to be embarrassed down the road somehow that say if you're inputting something into ai you don't want your boss to know about, is it ever going to be leaked or get out there? >> that's the thing. that segment of the survey people using unapproved tools, that is the real problem. let's just say, for example, you use your personal chatgbt

account to help you do some writing at work. well, anything proprietary from cnbc or nbc that you up load to chatgbt, they can use that to train their models. but their enterprise versions, including openai and microsoft and so many other companies that keeps your data contained and safe. some are doing it so you can only store your data physically at the location of your office. so there are work arounds for that, but you are right, this is the kind of case where any data you upload, you have to be careful if you use an enterprise version or the consumer version. >> i'm sure that's a big selling point. steve, thank you. now, if you have been thinking it's way too late to get into the ai rally, think again. my next guest bought nvidia shares last week, and they're up 4% since then. joining us now is steve grasso. it's been a while, steve. how are you? >> it's been a while, that's true. it's been a minute, maybe it's

been a couple of minutes for us. hope you're doing well. >> every time i look away -- what do you make of the fact that nvidia -- is this a one-week position for you? you make a quick 4% and get out or what? >> i never feel comfortable trading. that's the -- really the plight of a trader. so i knew that i was late, and i actually said as much when i bought it, when i tweeted it out. i'm always going to use the word "tweet" versus x. >> same. >> so i expected you get a little retrace lower on nvidia, i think it might be a little overdone. i actually thought the stock split was sort of a short-term top in it. but everyone is tripping over themselves to upgrade their price target. i think we have a street height of $200 now. so let me stay here a little bit, see if i can get a couple

percent out of this percentage. i will add on strength. >> there's so many different ways to analyze this. you can just absolutely go to the top, stick with the winners in the top three or five sticks. you can say no, no, i'm going to go big on dell or you can kind of go way to the outside of these names and say i'm going to pick up stocks in equal weight with other areas of the market that will be fine. as a general theory, which one most excites you or will be most profitable? >> for me, i like getting the most data. if you looked at the stock market, if you look at nvidia's performance within the s&p 500, basically with nvidia, the market's up 15%, the s&p 500. without nvidia, the market is up 10%. so you really should have had this in your portfolio. i was an early bull years ago on nvidia. i was in and out of the name.

but when it got hyperbolic, as it has been of late, i stepped to the side and this blowoff that you're seeing in nvidia really makes it hard to sit out. so i didn't put a lot of my money in it. but i put enough that i'll be happy if the stock shows me a return. >> it makes me chuckle when you say it's hard to sit out. a straight line can't go up forever. so if everyone is in it to ride it, when do they know -- how do you know when to get out? >> yeah. so you have to really pay attention. when you're a professional trader, you have to use stops. so whatever i think -- you know, if i'm looking to make 5%, 10% on the upside, i have to be willing to lose a certain amount of that on the downside, because as you know, you could have a market, or i should say, you can

have a stock that's down 2%, 3%, and it closes up 5%. that happens on an evideneryday basis in the market. so risk/reward. know what you're willing to make, what you're willing to use and don't stray today. >> even as it's down 3% today. steve, thank you so much. good to check in with you. steve grasso. coming up, shares of gillian are higher after a late-stage hiv drug show complete prevention in women. ana ecd chk on some of other numbers is next. i can't believe you corporate types are still calling each other rock stars. you're a rock star. we're all rock stars. oooo look look at my data driven insights, i'm a rock star. great job putting finance and hr on one platform with workday. thank you! guys, can you keep it down. i'm working.

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welcome back to "the exchange." the dow is up 260 points but nvidia has reversed lower today by 3%. the nasdaq is down nearly 1%,

even though early the rsi was over 80. the s&p is down 18 points, over 5500 for the first time just a short while ago. coming up, social media, we're tracking the latest trends with casey lewis. wel lk authe b 'ltabo tseig issues, next. oh, thank you so much i couldn't have done it without you. honestly, i don't do a whole lot here. i'm really just here for the at&t internet, it's super-fast so, any pre-launch concerns? what if nobody buys them? that's mean or, what if everybody buys them? oh, i hadn't thought of that that's probably not gonna happen can we handle that kind of traffic? the network can handle it! i downloaded eight hours of true crime stories just during our last video call i'm learning a lot

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♪ ♪ welcome back to "the exchange." is social media the new smoking? we've been asking for 20 years and now surgeon general vivek murthy is advocating for warping labels on social media. here's what dr. murthy told "squawk box" this morning. >> what's happening right now is the equivalent of putting kids in cars with no safety features, putting them on roads with no speed limits, no traffic lights, no rules whatsoever and saying good luck. we hope it turns out okay. we can do better than that. we have put parents in an impossible situation to monitor a technology that they didn't grow up with that's rapidly evolved with what most of us have reasonably been able to

manage and we've told them these are all on your shoulders. >> let's bring in someone with the pulse, and she's founder of the gen z newsletter. welcome. >> thank you for having me back. >> do the comments of the surgeon general echo the ways people feel about social media usage? >> there's an awareness among adults and young people, as well that social media is toxic for us, we know this, but we also sort of can't live without it. we can't operate our social lives you are are are owe liant on it on so many ways and that's the tough part about the whole thing. we need it. >> it's hard to make these distinctions because i look at the parents who themselves are struggling with the question of whether or not to let their kids have phones and most of them opt to let them have it because they don't want them to be socially ostracized. >> it's less about the screen and more about social media when it comes down to it. it's the platforms themselves

that are causing so much anxiety and all of these mental health issues versus the screen, the internet, certainly not all good, but i think it comes down to the social media platform. >> when i hear people talk about the most difficult aspects and sometimes these group chat problems happen on things like snapchat. sometimes it's literally group text messages, and you look at it and go, the issue is everyone is saying things on the group text, waking up first thing and they have 75 missed text messages and back and forth. is that instagram's fault? is that apple's fault? who can stand up and rectify a situation like that? >> that's a good question. the thing is if snapchat and any of the platforms put a warning on them, will it change anything? no. young people will turn to email, but the behavior itself is baked in. you're right that it's not the platform's fault. the platforms have sort of created this behavior, but the

behavior is too far gone for the platforms to sort of roll it back now. >> if we were to talk about the trends that you see taking place amongst young people who are now in their 20s and have had a life experience fully with this, what are they? how are they reacting? what should we be on the lookout for in terms of engagement with social media or media broadly or what might be next. >> i think we all need have to limits on social media and we've had time skoaling through instagram and comparison. it could be any age and we all feel bad about those things. when you're young and don't have the mental capacity to understand that comparison can really damage you and you know, fomo is a funny little acronym, but it also really hurts deep down when you realize you're missing out on something. i think these platforms have changed the way we view ourselves as social creatures and whether you're 27 or 17 or

37 our lives are sort of irreversibly changed from these platforms. >> i'll ask you the toughest question with the smallest amount of time left and the surgeon general comment, maybe the whole thing is over, like is instagram over or do you think there is still a full multi-decade cycle where people will have to grapple with these technologies? >> i don't think they're going anywhere, tiktok included. i think we'll be grappling with these platforms for the foreseeable future, certainly. >> maybe we'll not let you on your phone at night and that might be another way to come at the problem. we appreciate it. we'll check back in soon. >> thank you very much for having me. >> casey lewis after school. robert frank's latest newsletter is being looking at how the young and rich are investing and the markets and wealth management industry and sign up for that to scan the qr code or go to cnbc.com/inside wealth. that's ifohet r "t exchange."

"power lunch" with jon fortt on the other side of this break. ♪ why not? did you forget something? ♪ (suspenseful music) ♪ my protein shake. the future isn't scary. not investing in it is. you're so dramatic amelia. bye jen. nasdaq-100 innovators. one etf. before investing, carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com.

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♪ ♪ ♪ welcome to "power lunch," alongside kelly evans, i am jon fortt. stocks are off the best levels of the day with the exception of the dow which is at the day's high thanks to salesforce and chevron. the s&p 500 and nasdaq both touched records earlier in the session before dropping. the nasdaq jus