cash® card. [mind blown explosion noise] good afternoon, everybody. welcome to "power lunch." alongside kelly evans, i'm tyler mathisen. jamie dimon weighing on the markets and economy the past hour. we will recap what he was saying and get you actionable insights. and we have more health care companies working to implement a.i. into their businesses. could it help or hurt an industry plagued by red tape and inefficiency? we will discuss. first, a check on the markets with the dow losing all of its earlier gains. now ever so slightly in the red by about 70 points along with the rest of the market. this after a strong start to the session crossing its 50-day moving average, kelly. >> some the other groups we're

watching, the gig economy stock seeing big swings. airbnb down 15%, same for lyft. uber and instacart hanging on it gains, 3.5%. and moves in the chip space, super micro down nearly 19% now after missing estimates while amd is up a percentage on a bullish note from piper sandler. >> we start with jamie dimon weighing in on recession fears and recent market volatility. let's listen to what he had to say. >> america's alive and well. there's aentrepreneurs everywhere, they're growing, building stadiums, technology in about every city we do, wherever we go. society's problems, it's uplifting. markets fluctuate. i think people overreact to the daily fluctuation in the market. and sometimes it's for good reason. sometimes it's virtually no reason. and you saw this came way down and went way back up. people are projecting and when they project forward, it affects

the markets. we don't know if it's going to be a soft or hard landing. i've been skeptical it's going to be soft. i'm hoping it's soft because does inflation get back to 2%? i'm a skeptic. rate isn't that critical. psychologically there will be a lot of chatter, what does it mean, are things getting bad? maybe that's psychological to affect the economy but remind people every day, 325 million americans go to work, go to the jobs, take their families, take care of their kids. you know, fill out the house, change a job. it can be affected by the fed changing rates by 50 basis points. i don't think so. the bottom 50% of income they've spent it down, they're doing what we call normal behavior. substitution, you know, they have an extra expense, they might do a gig job for weekend. do something cheap or less going out. the top 50% is some extra. that extra will be gone at the end of this year. but there's still travel, restaurants, you know, entertainment, things like that.

>> let's bring in luke tillie, chief economist with wilmington trust. a lot to unpack there, luke. i think my key takeaway here is that he does not see the economy in imminent risk of a recession. he thinks that there's a 35% to h 40% chance of a soft landing. he hopes that happens. if not, we'll be okay, we'll get through it. what else can you say really? >> yeah, we're even more optimistic than jamie. about a 70% chance of a soft landing, been in that position for a while. maybe a 30% chance of a downturn. a lot of it comes back to the consumer. those previous comments. consumers have slowed down their purchases quite a bit after -- and i would actually say that they have exhausted some of their savings, but a lot of that was invested, too, you can see the flows going to places like treasury direct. you can see consumers have invested some of those savings not just spent them down

recklessly which provides a good buffer. but adjusted for inflation, absolutely right. a lot of savings are gone. we see consumer spending now in a real sense, whether it's goods or services or the overall, it's about 2.5% year over year. and importantly no longer relying on savings that is driven by job and wage growth. and we think that those things will continue despite one weak jobs report. and importantly we're not hearing the hue and cry from businesses that they can't keep up with order, can't keep up with business. that's what's bringing inflation down. so we expect 2.4% growth when we finish this year, a little bit of a slowdown next year to 1.5%. we're pretty optimistic. >> he said he was a bit skeptical that 2% inflation could be -- that target of the fed's could be reached any time soon. i may be overparafriesing him there -- over paraphrasing him there. do you agree? >> we think it will come down to the fed's target in the first

quarter of 2025. so probably faster than what jamie was referencing. we're going to have some challenging base effects for the remainder of this year. we had low readings in the second half of last year. with consumer spending as normal as it is, we really don't see inflation pushing upward from here. so it's going to sort of move along around that 2.5% level in a year-over-year sense. when we hit the first quarter of next year, i think it will move back to the fed's target. it's important for fed consideration because it has the -- as the unemployment rate is now already above their median forecast for the end of this year and because the fed has said they're putting inflation and the labor market on equal footing, that means it's time for rate cuts. it means it's time for rate cuts pretty soon. >> luke, i was struck by how i thought jamie dimon sounded much more optimist ecothan in the past couple -- optimistic than in the past couple of years. maybe the storm clouds have

cleared. >> yeah. storm clouds -- i was thinking as you were saying that, a couple years ago he said they were bracing for an economic hurricane. there were a lot of challenges at this point, but a lot of the storm clouds have cleared, i agree with you. there are some i'll say yellow flags, not even red flags, in the labor market report in a little bit of drift up of credit card delinquencies. but overall credit is still being paid. and as long as job growth keeps up and we think it will, that means that companies are going to keep hiring people. as i said, it's going to be slower than it has in the past couple of years. so we don't know where the next storm cloud will in from. like i said a couple of yellow caution flags. but we think that it's a soft landing from here. and it's going to be good for the economy and good for risk assets. >> leslie picker did ask him about credit card losses and extra reserves that they have set aside at the bank to do that. but he did not seem overly worried about that at all. he said credit card losses have

normalized, it's not worrisome. jobs are up, wages are up, the market is up. and really what he's seeing is a normalization of that rather than any big dramatic acceleration. >> yeah, we see that in the data, too. and wilmington trust, we're part of m&t bank, so we have our own portfolio. i feel like as an economist i spend a lot of times distinguishing between rates of change and level. so we've had the credit card delinquencies have really been moving up sharply over the past year. but they'ring which off of a -- they're coming off of a low base and hitting normalized levels. this morning we got the most recent quarterly report from the new york fed on delinquencies and the movement of balances into 90 days delinquent is slowing down. and it does translate to a normalization and a lot of people still are paying those credit debts. we don't think that it is a red flag. we don't think it's a reason to panic or change our positioning yet.

but we're watching it closely because the consumer is key. >> luke, we appreciate your time. thanks for joining us today. >> thank you. as we heard off the top, jamie dimon in short saying he doesn't think that the fed's rate hikes matter much on a grander scale, but they impact housing. the homebuilder stocks are trading lower, adding to their declines over the past week. for more on his take on the housing sector let's bring in steven kimm, senior managing director of homebuilding equity refer at ever corps. it was not a pretty period for the homebuilder. turns out they hate lower interest rates. >> they moved up nicely over the last few months here. actually the last month or so. so we actually have had a very nice positive reaction to the lower rates. frankly, though, i think that we have a lot more to come because right now what we're seeing on -- on the ground is that in 2q earnings we're hearing that june really wasn't a great month. july probably wasn't that great either based on our contacts.

and so this move down that we've seen here over the last few weeks and the -- in the ten-year yield which will translate to the mortgage rate is going to be very beneficial, we think, for the housing market. we think things are going to get better as we get into the third quarter. >> they could get better overall. but could they get worse -- the builders have benefited so much from short supply, being able to buy down rates, low inventory. relatively affordable home prices, the premium i think you pointed out, they used to command is pretty much gone. does all of that reverse or start to reverse now? >> well, i think not. i think that what we have here is we're probably going to see another step up in demand as the rates come down. but the supply remains extremely tight. it's moved up a little. i think people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. looking at a couple of markets around the country where things have gotten worse. but it hasn't metastasized to the rest of the country. as a nation we have 3.8 months of supply of resale homes on the market that used to be normally

five to six months. it got as low as three months. at 3.8 months we're going to still see a tight market, you're not going to see a lot of pressure on home prices. and with demand improving with the rates coming down, we think third quarter's looking to be a good period. >> what would a half point interest rate cut in september and the remainder of the year mean for the housing business? >> it's important to recognize that the mortgage rate really queues off at the ten-year yield. that's because people usually stay in their homes for, you know, seven to ten years or so. as a result, the ten-year yield is really what matters, and the ten-year yield obviously anticipates a lot of the fed cut. so the fed cut per se probably won't impact the mortgage rate when it actually comes. this period we're in now, as people are thinking the fed's going to cut, that impacts the rate. so you kind of get that. however, a lot of people who buy

houses for the first time may not be sophisticated. and as a result, they may not really know that the long end of the yield curve is what matters. when they hear that, oh, the fed is actually cutting rates now, that may actually drive more traffic to the doors of the home builders. that's something to watch out for. we are seeing there's a lot of psychological barriers to the buyers right now. people think it's all math, but i said many times it's not just math, it's mental when you're talking about home buyers, particularly first-time buyers. it might get people off their couch and into the doors of homebuilders. >> it could change the psychology of the buyer, in other words, make more of them feel comfortable with the rates that are out there than are comfortable today. >> yes. it makes them feel like they're not doing something foolish. first-time buyers, they have a nervousness around the biggest purchase ever going to make, and they're nervous that they're going to do the wrong thing, do something foolish, and buying

the house when rates are high, i think a lot of people think of that as maybe a foolish thing. so when they hear that the fed is now cutting rates, as i said, i think that that could connect some dots in people's minds. even though the mortgage rate is already moving down now. >> right. all right. stephen, thank you so much. stephen kim, evercore isi managing director. dimon also weighing in on the consumer saying consumers are spending down the money they built up during covid from government programs and elsewhere from not spending i guess basically. but not raising serious alarm bells there. that said, wells fargo out with a new note raising some red flags on retail. issue something caution around names like capri, urban outfitters, under armour, ulta. joining us is the author of that note, wells fargo's managing director and senior retail analyst. what are you beginning to see in these names? and i was struck in the last hour, kelly had up on a graphic of a lot of the hospitality

names from airbnb to hilton to windham and so forth. all guiding down, all saying it's not -- the quarter's going to trend lower than previously anticipated. what's going on? >> yeah, hey, tyler. so look, at the end of the day i think not a lot is changing certainly for the better for the outlook of the consumer, especially in discretionary. you know, the number you're starting to see in the second quarter are showing you little red flags, just to take the term from our note. i think our larger concern is what do these flags mean for the back half of the year. so we highlight a few different things that really concern us. number one, markdown risk. we are seeing in real time the inventory situation get a little worse, mark down rates getting higher. you factor in in the back half you've got an election, we've done a lot of work around what that means to spending. it's not good. we could go through that. and we have a shortened holiday, five fewer selling days this

year. then you tack on things like elevated freight, spot rates and surcharges, what do these mean to margins into next year. tariff risk, people are talking about that. it's hard to find good news in the space today. valuations are cheap. but that's not a really -- a catalyst. >> let's bear down on the thing you brought in that is unanticipated at least by me, the idea that the election affects what consumers do and how much they spend. why is that? and why do you see it? >> absolutely. we put out a big report a few months ago to talk about this because it has become much more topical with our investors that we speak with, what does it really mean. when we go through election cycles going back 30 years, what we can see in the data is that there is roughly a 150 to 200 basis points slowdown in spend in the back half of an election year versus the first half. that has become much more exacerbated in the most recent

elections. why is that? because when you look at the data, people are on their phones more, watching the news more, they're sitting on the couch kind of debating, you know, who do they want to vote for. they're not spending. this polarization of politics really does take a number on spending and -- >> the intention is -- attention is lured away from what they might otherwise be doing, which is going out and spending money. >> that's what amazon is arguing. that's interesting, ike, that you think -- i thought that sounded like the dog ate my honorable homework excuse. here's what barkley says, they downgraded all of retail to neutral and said from this point in the recovery cycle, the only way to drive further margin expansion is blah, blah, blah, blah. we believe the majority of forward outlooks have far less upside opportunity and potential risk to sales and margins in the back half of this year which echoes what tyler said about the unusual nature from the travel companies, that was supposed to be a bright spot. i understand retail retrenching but this seems to be broad based. >> yeah, and again, i can speak

to discretionary and soft lines within this. so at the end of the day i think that to take it more near term, the checks we wrote about most recently for the first couple weeks of back to school are not very good. you're having slowdown in demand. you've got sourcing concerns that are growing, but the global vendors -- look at ralph lauren, stocks down, europe, china. it's almost like -- like i said at the start, you're struggling to find the good news. idiosyncratic ideas do exist, we still like some stocks, we're not negative everything. burlington within the alt price space, gap is the favorite margin recovery story. there are names worth owning and buying on fullbacks, but broadly speaking it's tough sledding for now. >> broad -- broadly speaking, is this slowdown something that is across the board, or is it concentrated more this those retailers that cater to what

dimon would describe as the bottom 50% of earners? >> it's not that. low end has been under pressure for call it two years. i would argue in some cases the low end pressure is almost normalizing, i don't know what the right word is. look at the alt pricers have the most consistent traffic of anyone. that's the lowest end consumer we deal with. but their business model and mousetrap really works. but it's broad based. we could talk about ulta beauty, bath and body works candles, we could talk about apparel, we could talk about footwear with nike. it is across the board. it's discretionary spending. >> ulta was the stock everybody loved six, nine months ago. and now as you see there with the slide over the last three months, 17% in ulta. >> we haven't underperformed on ulta. they have issues, they need to

reset the business, the margins are too high, they're losing market share, to sephora. amazon is a problem. they have a good amount of problems. >> interesting. thank you so much for your time today. with wells fargo, senior retail analyst there. >> impressive on ulta in particular. after the break, we'll dive further into the health of consumer while the focus of disney's results was on streaming profitability. park segments could offer better insight into the state of of the economy. we'll tell you what they said. we're watching markets down almost 200 points on the dow which has given up its sharp gains after that weak option of the ten year top of last hour. we'll continue to track it.

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senior media analyst at rosenblatt securities. it's good to see you. there's a lot to unpack here. as you mentioned, when was most important to disney as a company and what's more interesting from broader sort of sign for the economy. what would you say we've learned? >> well, i think we've certainly learned -- we've gotten one more data point supportive of the notion that there's pressure on the consumer. you know, the theme park for disney is important. that was last year 70% of their segment profits, you know this year i think pacing for around two-thirds of segment profits. so it's a key driver. and what disney was saying last quarter is they thought there would be robust, as they put it, operating income growth in parks, and the experiences segment that the parks drive. now they're saying that that segment's going to be down mid single digits and profits in the fourth quarter, and those pressures will persist through the first three quarters of next year. that's a rapid substantial

change. and a lot of it is tied to the consumer domestically. i think mainly in florida weakening. we saw a little of that earlier with the universal parks out of comcast, and it's been reiterated with disney. that takes some of the luster off of the good trends they've had in finally bringing their direct-to-consumer business into profitability. >> so what is it that's happening here? is it -- is it consumers just pulling back across the board? i mean, disney has gotten -- the resorts are not a cheap ticket. >> the resorts are not cheap. and certainly, you know, with time we'll probably understand better, but we do seem to be going through a change. and we're trying to understand what that change is. i think one of the phrases that's been thrown out is there's a post-covid normalization that people, you know, did a lot of travel and experiences, and now it's time to settle down and manage your budget, you know, with a lot more inflationary pressures. you know, i think the -- the

person that goes it a disney theme park is probably tends toward above average, you know, income, and asset kind of wealth. but not -- not maybe as high as you would think. i think certainly for a lot of people that's a generational rite of passage for your kids and your family. you know, disney has a line within their parks for cruise ships where they've been investing really kind of delivering a premium experience. you know, that seems to be holding up stronger than the parks, and maybe part of that is, you know, who goes on cruise ships. but also there are going to be maybe some economic differences in clients' health. clearly there's a change afoot, and we've got to start understanding better what's going on. >> i think of disney as a place that is a special family trip, maybe not an annual family trip, maybe if you're lucky you can afford to go every year. for many people it's one of those things you do maybe every four or five years. let's talk about their sports

segment. i was struck by the fact that espn's advertising revenue was up 17%. what was driving that? >> so, you know, people love sports. these guys -- you know, they have the good fortune of having the wnba, you know, and the whole caitlin clark thing has transformed that. i think the sports are resilient on the pay tv bundle. now you're paying for that. we've got a new -- the nba deal coming up in a couple of years that they've inked that's going to jack up their programming costs a lot. and they've got to grow to kind of cover that. but you know, that's why the athletes and the leagues are sitting in the cat bird seat because they are what advertisers want to get in front of, they're what people want to watch. they're the last kind of safe bastion of audience on tv. and they're getting paid for it. >> so you just reduced your price target to 122 from 129. explain a little bit of the

thinking there and what would be an upside surprise for you that might cause you to put it back at 129? >> yeah. so look, this is a first on cnbc. we published our note as we were coming on air. we're taking our price target down $7, it reflects net reduction to estimates, you know, veteran dtc, parks, to a lower eps estimate for fiscal '26. we're assuming they can trade at a 19 pe against fiscal '26 pro forma eps. and the estimate came down with the price target down multiple stay the same. that's still a decent argument for the stock. it's up 40%. that multiple's not demanding for a premium kind of property. and they've got real asset value. even if everything falls apart, you know, there's people who would buy the pieces there, and the -- you know, i think the activist investors would come back and force it. you're kind of hedged. and this is the kind of quality

asset when things are a little tougher, you out to look for opportunities to move in. and that's why we're sticking with the buy rating even with these issues that we're sorting through right here. >> all right, barton, thank you. always good to see you. >> great. thank you. >> barton crockett. as the market rally loses steam, should investors continue to proceed with caution? we'll dive into that in the market navigator next. (intercom) t minus 10... (janet) so much space! that open kitchen! (tanya) ...definitely the one! (ethan) but how can you sell your house when we're stuck on a space station for months???!!! (brian) opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline.

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welcome back to "power lunch." as we mentioned the markets were attempting to come back from monday's route. but now losing a good bit of the steam. so should you believe in the bounce, or is it getting wobbly? dom chu is here to talk about that and more in today's "market navigator." >> one of the questions we wanted to ask folks out there, context that we know, experts was if you could believe the bounce or not. today -- yesterday's bounce. and even today, this morning, we saw a bounce.

could it carry over? at least one of the street's top technicians who's been bullish since late 2023 is actually starting to temper her view on what's going on. one of the key things she's looking at is the fixed income market. let's bring in katie stocktown, she joins us now from fair leaf strategies. you're looking specifically at parts of the market including the long treasury bond etf ticker tlt. what's it telling you, and why is it so important? >> it's really interesting timing. we have a breakout, of course, in tlt and other fixed incomes efts. it comes at a time when equities have seen some turbulence. and that turbulence should continue based on what we're seeing in our volatility metrics. so may be a good time to look at these fixed income products including tlt which has cleared a very important resistance level on the chart. it's based on our cloud model. the cloud is a great gauge of the long-term trend. and you can see that price is now above that threshold.

and it's there for a couple of weeks which we like to see for confirmation of a breakout. tlt also happens to have what appears to be long-term base in place in the shape of an inverse head and shoulder s pattern, ths looks like a head and shoulders bottom. that could mean it has lastingism indications. of course, this -- lasting implications. of course, this is in correlation with the down move that we have under way there. >> what kinds of -- if the thesis plays out and this becomes a -- an even better investment, what kind of returns would you expect from it? if i were to follow your advice? >> yeah. you know, initial resistance for tlt in particular isn't terribly far above. it's around 101.5 in price terms. and secondary resistance is well above. around 108 on the chart. so it could be a meaningful long-term turnaround that we have. we don't know what the returns will look like, of course. but we want to keep the

long-term momentum gauges on our side. and they happen to be expanding in favor of continuation higher for tlt whereas if you look conversely at the equities we've seen down ticks in the monthly histograms, and those down ticks seemed to be lesser in exposure. we've moved to a neutral long-term bias for equities really with the timeframe of maybe four to six months. so not very, very long term. but just to avoid this increased volatility for now. >> and do you see there's any kind of -- you think it's neutral, really quickly, just how much of a pullback could we see? >> well, for the -- we believe the balance here, but for the next week or two, and we would use that to reduce exposure. the 5,000 level for the s&p 500 is an initial support beyond the very near term. i think that could be jeopardized during the next down, maybe a seasonal corrective phase into september. but i don't think we'll see it back to the 4,800 area where

there's secondary support. >> all right. our market navigator. thank you so much. dom, thank you, as well. any final thoughts? >> you know what i'm thinking right now, it's been such a long time since we've seen any volatility that it's probably at least passes the realm of reason to think that things could be -- a little bit more skittish for a while. >> thank you. cvs health announcing it's going to lean on artificial intelligence to help cut rising costs. we're going to dive into how technology is shaping up the medical industry, specifically how a.i. can be maybe a real transformative force and a good investment when "power lunch" returns.

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welcome back, everybody, to "power lunch." some potential warning signs emerging in health care. cvs health cutting its full-year profit outlook and announcing a cost-cutting plan amid higher medical costs. as part of that plan to reduce

costs, the company says it will increase the use of a.i. and automation. cvs isn't alone. the medical community already starting to adopt a.i. for many applications. our next guest says the actual impact of a.i. has been minimal so far, but has the potential to transform health care. here on set with us is dr. ronald rosmy, a cardiologist and co-founder and managing director of zoy capital, a vc firm that invests in the applications of a.i. in health care. ron, good to have you with us. i should point out that you're also an mba, md, and mba and slacker clearly and author of "a.i. doctor: the rise of artificial intelligence in health care." an hour ago jamie dimon said on our air, "i think a.i. is going to cure cancer." you do agree with him? >> i agree with him but not tomorrow. so "newsweek" did an article on my book and started with how quickly are we going to see

massive gains in health care delivery, medical research, from artificial intelligence. and i was -- i managed to convince them that it's going to take a couple of decades before we see some of these very ambitious benefits. there are things we could see tomorrow improving in health care delivery, making health care more precise, more convenient. however, the lofty ambitions around curing cancer and unlocking the secrets of the human body, that is going to take longer. >> let's talk about where the impact of a.i. may be felt most immediately, and my guess would be it would be in areas where the bureaucracy is deep and thick and there's a lot of brush that needs to be cleared away. potentially in terms of better and quicker and more accurate diagnoses of scans and tests and things like that. where is the most immediate impact of a.i. going to be felt, and are those investable

opportunities? >> absolutely. so at zoy capital we have a thesises on short-term term, medium term, and long-term applications of a.i. and health care. the most immediate applications were focused on our administrative and operational. delivering health care takes a lot of effort. it's -- human resources intensive, it requires a lot of financial watch capital -- capital investment. being able to do heavy lifting with technology is how we're going to make delivery -- making health care more accessible, improving quality because everything doesn't need to be done manually. so right now we're focusing on operational and administrative use case. some of those basic clinical use cases like radiology and pathology and dermatology. however, in the mid to long term, it's going to -- its greatest impact is going to be in medical research and

unlocking -- >> drug development? >> drug development is an area where investors have lost a lot of money in a.i. and drug discovery because they thought it was going to take a shorter amount of time than it actually has. a lot of companies that have gone public, as a matter of fact zoi capital was conceived with my -- when my partner, brian bealer, who was part of the team that built horizon therapeutics to a $30 billion company, he and i started looking at why a.i. was not gaining any traction in health care. and he had looked at a lot of the drug discovery a.i. applications and seeing that although promising, one -- >> not ready for primetime -- >> it's going to take a long time. >> i'm struck that jamie dimon sounds much more optimistic about a.i. in health care than you do. i wonder if that's because to tyler's point how many barriers there are, you can't flip switches and have this take off.

there's tremendous inertia and hurdles and things. and just as the technology evolves, you mention that the consumption that haven't been successful like babylon and olive and all the capital people in the space that has failed to deliver. so do you actually feel that optimistic about how a.i. can transform the medical industry? >> yes, absolutely -- i absolutely do. however, every application is not going to gain immediate adoption. so my book is actually a business book about how you need to do the type of analysis up front to see if the business case for the application you are building is strong enough, where the buyers who are being bombarded with different types of products can decide yes, i want to go ahead with this because this addresses a mission-critical need for me. you need to look at the data issues to see if the data is going to be available in the real world for it to deliver value, or the clinical washington flows, does it --

work flows, does it fit within existing work flows. you need to do that type of analysis. so everything you build is not going to gain adoption. very optimistic -- >> i've got a couple of quick questions before we wrap it up. number one is what regulatory impediments may there be to the adoption and uses of a.i. across the medical marketplace? that could be questions of privacy, questions of whether an a.i. application actually is clinically beneficial or not? is safe and efficacious? >> the fda has set the bar low in terms of what they're going to approve and clear for marketing. however, that doesn't mean the medical communities accepting that retrospective study on 300 scans to be proof that it's going to show value in the real world. as a matter of fact a lot of the radiology solutions that have come into the real world have underperformed, the data and the

evidence that -- >> am i hearing you say then that regulatory impediments will not be all that big in terms of clinical use? or -- >> we don't know because it's a shifting regulatory environment. the fda is issuing papers on an ongoing basis. it's not clear where they're going to land on how much evidence they're going to require before -- and another issue is reimbursement. the insurance companies have been very slow in reimbursing. they're asking for real-world trials before they reimburse. >> let's round third base and bring it home for the viewers who buy the thesis that a.i. could have a transformative impact on medical delivery, health care, et cetera. where do they invest today? >> well -- >> what's the best way? >> in the public markets, i actually had a stack in the public markets called deep medicine acquisition corporation. we were trying to take a health a.i. company public. we saw there's not a lot of late-stage private companies that are good candidates for

public markets. you mentioned babylon, benevolent a.i., some of these companies and drug discovery have knocked down low in the public markets just because their benefits are going to take longer to show. so you're looking at early to mid stage in private markets investing in these -- >> that's the way that you're going to play it today. and that's for a certain class of investors. not for the retail -- >> exactly -- >> person who's got a couple of etfs. >> as i mentioned in davos this year, it's patient capital, to see -- to realize the benefits of a.i. in health care. >> doctor, thank you so much. and once again, the book is "a.i. doctor: the rise of artificial intelligence in health care." appreciate your time. >> thank you for having me. oil prices are bucking the down trend and rising above $75 a barrel today. we'll have details when "power lunch" returns.

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welcome back, everybody. bon yields on the rise.

ten year above 3.9%. let's get an explanation for that and more with rick santelli in chicago. >> absolutely, tyler. you know, a chart of this week pretty much says it all. let's look a monday, tuesday, wednesday chart. monday's intraday low, yes, 3.66%. we're 31 basis points above that, and it isn't like equities have taken back all of monday's drop. so what's going on here? you know, maybe there's something more of this debt and deficit story because the minute we start talking about long dated options, boy things start to pop. and today's ten-year, i gave it a d-plus, and i was in a generous mood. look at one week of the two-10 spread. this is also key. you see right in the middle is that big volatility move we had. well, we shot up to basically positive one. we didn't close there, haven't closed that spread in positive territory since july of '22. but look how it's coming back.

and this is the key -- we are looking at long dated treasuries continue to push rates higher. and one would think with that huge concession that we had with rates coming so far back today's auction would have went well. but it wasn't. tomorrow let's lee at a three-month chart from twos to tens. basically moving from minus 50 to very close to positive territory, and finally, what is the tell in all of this? that chart you're looking at now is the yen versus the dollar versus ten-year motor yields. what it's telling me, as the yen values go down, one dated rates are going up. that's the tell who is respond for the monday volatility. kelly, back to you. rick, thank you. now to the energy market. pippa is here to explain.

>> oil is up as is everything else. a look at shares of sun run, part of that is thanks to a focus with batteries, they also mentioned they could see a benefit from sun power's bankruptcy filing, but they're not going to pursuing all of them at cost, rather than excessively, and wall street like that stock up quite a bit. >> bertha coombs, cnbc news update. vice president harris as campaign sis they rose $36 million since tim walz was chosen as her running mate. the campaign says it raised $310 million for the month. the family of the french

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♪ welcome back. as the markets flip into the red as we head to the close, let's review some stories that might be contributing to that, starting with airbnb, warning of slowing demand from u.s. guests. it's a trend we have seen across the hospitality space, ty. >> you had a chart in the last hour that showed a lot of different companies all saying sort of the same sort of tenor of idea about a slowing down. next up, we have reddit citing improvements in the digit at ad market. the stock, however, lower, the company is still operating at a loss. >> we'll see if they'll be an ai beneficiary. also down more than 20% cutting the forecast, getting downgrades and lower price

targets. >> it's getting decked. robinhood is still struggling. stock down around 16% in a week. there you see it. >> should be taking advantage. timely, shopify in the green today, seeing better earnings, upbeat guidance, strong service demand. all right. thanks for watching "power lunch." >> could be a turbulent time into the close. "closing bell" starts right now. guys, thanks so much. i'm scott wapner live from post 9. this begins with the markets feeling awfully fragile, lately. the big question, whether the worst is behind us or not. we'll ask our experts or the final stretch as the majors try to bounce back. the scorecard, with 60 minute to say go in regulation looks different now, does president it, from where it was earlier today. what was green is now red again.