technology. >> all i want to say is go blue. my son is at michigan. >> yes, you said that before. >> yes. >> go blue. i want to focus again on ai and stay on the ai train and the introduction of gemini, google's effort, finally caught up, an impressive video if you haven't seen it. >> you talked about it. this is the coolest thing i've ever seen. the guy draws things and gemini, the google ai, it recognizes them, and has a conversation back and forth. >> yes. exactly. and so that is really important. because google is the most important company in this space, and open ai chat gpt 5 and elon musk with a billion dollars. >> thank you all for being here. thank you all for being here. and we will see you right back here, next week. hello, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in

london. and welcome to the amanpour hour. in the next 60 minutes we will take you around the world to ask the tough questions and tackle the problems and let history be our guide. here is where we're headed this week. no more excuses. the australian billionaire turned eco warrior who says it is do or die if we are to save the planet puts his money where his mouth is. >> the science is not in any debate by anyone with half a brain, so we must change. then to the violent epicenter of the middle east, a professor how america took its eye off the ball at just the wrong time. >> i really have no trust in american foreign policy. also ahead, no cell silencer, an exclusive interview with the family of the iranian nobel winner. and then from the archive, grappling with nelson mandela's legacy, a decade after his death. and finally, to the moon. for a story of hope and

humanity, with tom hanks. >> all we really need is enough of us to work together and we can truly change the world. welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london. metric ton loads of experts, government leaders, activists, and interested civilians, have descended on dubai this week. as the latest climate summit struggles to make the world's biggest polluters reign themselves in and thus hopefully ensure the continuation of our species. alarm bells keep ringing, the science keeps telling us what is happening as does the weath terself, and yet tipping points either get closer or are surpassed all together. and it is no surprise that in this survival drama, the villains are fossil fuel companies which set a record number of lobbyists to the cop 28 climate summit which itself is being hosted by the chair of the united arab emirates

national oil company. but maybe it does take someone on the inside to cut through all of smog. australian mining magnate andrew forest is claiming that role for himself, these day, promising his own company will be green by 2030. and daring other captains of industry to step up and do the same. he began by writing at cop 28, not by playing, but in a ship, powered by clean ammonia and that is where i found him this week, on the dubai docks, trying to convert the holdouts. >> andrew forest, welcome to the program. we are seeing you there in dubai at cop, standing in the port in front of your green ship. tell me how you managed to get it there, because it's not permitted to get an ammonia green ship into that port. >> you're so right. this is the first green ammonia

ship, it carries hydrogen, and moves very slow and remains able to replace all diesel and shipping fuel. so it is quite remarkable that you can see them at any port in the world but the first green hydrogen pollution ship had to be stopped. so this is a message to all ports of the world, get with the message, and the world shipping industry is history now, through this ship, and we need to sell, but we have a preference to big smelly old fossil fuel ships. >> how did you get it into the port then? what is it powered on right mow? >> it is powered on top of vegetable oil. but that is no solution. some people say oh, look, it will do for now, but it won't. only green ammonia can be produced at huge scale, big enough for the shipping industry, for the trucking industry, the transport industry, and we have to go to ammonia and stop the little stints where we're taking fuel

away from the food industry. >> you know, we've heard the billable maritime forum saying ammonia is highly toxic, flammable, corrosive, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. are you absolutely sure that you can bank your massive shipping needs on ammonia? >> look, i certainly am. that's just an excuse to do nothing. i mean the whole world is full of excuses, why should we sit down and be lazy and not change the way where the world must go. the science is not in any debate by anyone with half a brain, so we must change. so i would just say to anyone who says look, ammonia, has all of these problems, hang on, do it gas, so did diesel, every other fuel had these problems but we got through them and we are going to get -- and they're destroying the world. so we will get through pollution-free fuel. and of course if they don't, we will go above their heads and make sure it happens. >> you know you come under quite a lot of criticism. you're a major billionaire, head of a major mining company, and

some would say a lot of this is stunt, you know, operations. tell me what is your main goal as a climate pioneer, which i know is how you describe yourself, and tuckly particularly coming from australia, which is no stranger to the incredible buffer etting of the climate change crisis. >> exactly. so i answer all of my critics, it is not going to make any difference to global warming, don't waste your time, but if you want to help the world, you need the big heavy industrials. you need the companies which are burning like me, a billion hours a year, and you need them to stop burning fossil fuels and that's what for ef -- forestcue is doing, and we are replacing it with green energy and green fuel and we are previewing it can be done, tearing away the

excuse for the inaction, and excuse for business as usual, and saying now we can change and therefore, we must change. >> what do you make of the actual host of this cop, who said, and i will just read it, science out there, or no scenario out there, that says the phase-out of fossil fuel is going to achieve this very important 1.5 degree celsius level. he says that his comments were misinterpreted. but we know that there is a massive and unprecedented number of fossil fuel industry lobbyists, at cop, in dubai, what do you make of the actual environment? >> well, look, all i can say is that the huge event, we ran it in all major newspapers yesterday, basically saying, oil and gas, this is your science, you obviously didn't know about particular and the time for excuses, it is all over. we have to act immediately. this is upon us right now.

we must act right now. and anyone who doesn't is clearly saying, well, i can't do it, well actually, your country can do it. actually, your company can do it. maybe you're right. maybe you can't do it, and therefore, it is your chance to enter stage left and bring on someone who can. >> you have a challenge, obviously, because you have a mining company, which takes a lot of energy, in order to extract that stuff. so you know, how are you going to deal with that? >> we're building a gigawatt of solar, a gigawatt of wind, 750 kilometers of transmission lines, we're building green hydrogen facilities, we're starting to make green, everything is going to be completed in the next four or five years. we're going to switch off one billion liters of diesel equivalent in the next five to six years to go fully beyond fossil fuel. and you're right. we are a very difficult so-called extremely hard to

abite industry, but if we can do it, so can japan, so can germany, so can north america, so can every country and company in the world, because we have the technology. the capital is there. begging for people to go to the transition, to lend and fund. the character is the resource we're missing. character to get up and make the change. and that's really why we want to say to everyone, just ask that question, when are you going to stop burning fossil fuel and the answer is well, we know you can, as a company, as a country, and maybe you can't as a leader, and now, it is your turn to hand over that to somebody who has the character. >> andrew forrest, in front of that ship in that port, nighttime dubai, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. now, few people appreciate how precious our planet is. like the astronauts who gaze back at earth from space. after the break, tom hanks takes us to the moon in a stunning new celebration of science and the

human spirit. >> right mow, it seems as though not enough of us can work together. let's find an example of when that happens, and i'm sorry, but going back to the moon is that very example writ large.

welcome back to the program. our letters from london this week, it is called the workers, comes from the actor tom hanks. the hollywood legend and self declared space nut has written and narrated this spectacular immersive documentary, displayed floor to ceiling and in the round, here in london's life room. >> the 15,000 years of human history, just 12 of us have traveled from outer earth to welcome in another celestial body. >> 40 seconds away from the apollo 11 liftoff.

five, four, three, two, one. liftoff. we have liftoff. apollo 11. >> now, join me on a journey back to the moon. >> and the experience is about the grit and determination that put the first man on the moon in 1969. also featuring interviews with the next generation of nasa astronauts, hoping to make their own giant leap. i sat down with tom hanks, along with his co-writer christopher riley, on their own lunar surface, just as the film experienced premiere here in london this week, rekindling the age of adventurism. tom hanks, chris, welcome to the program. >> good to see you. >> this is a quintessential american story, so why is it debuting in london? >> this very facilitay that we are sitting in now in king's cross is the most immersive

venue we've ever come across in my life and the first time we came here, and we saw an exhibit of david hocking here, and now, i thought i was going to be seeing an exhibit of david hawking face, i didn't realize i was going to be walking into one of his paintings, as david himself was painting it. all around you. seeing that that was possible, i immediately went to the powers to be, richard, and said you could put people in the valley where we are sitting right now, on apollo 17 and it would be as though we were sitting right on the moon. have you guys thought about that? an they said no, but would you like to think about it with us, and so here we are. >> and the two of you wrote this together. what did it take to write this? what were you trying to achieve? what was it about the moon, the story that is being told so many times? >> that's a good question, why. >> well, yes, i mean it is spot entirely about the moon. the story is actually a story of hope, of course, it is about the hope of humanity, and what we can do when we work together, and apollo really epitomizes

that. it was the work of half a million people for a decade, all coming together for one particular quest. and it was driven by curiosity in part. and when you're curious, we discover unexpected things. and that's essentially the pledge we wanted to try to convey in part, isn't it? >> you saw, when you were a kid, you watched on television, i watched on television, neil armstrong walk on the moon, and i guess that it is inspired you ever since, because you also play, you know, jim lovell in apollo 13. >> houston, we have a problem. >> has that been something that has stayed with you ever since? >> why did you choose the apollo 13 film? >> first of all, apollo 13, jim lovell, back then, they are jason and the argonauts, a story ripped right out of the great sagas of all of human kind. this is what it comes down to. sitting at home, it was 1968, apollo 8, lovele was orbiting the moon with fred born and bill anders and on my mother's couch,

i saw a live broadcast of what, oh, the planet earth, in black and white, on my television, in my mom's house over christmas vacation. something in my feeble little brain could not quite fathom that i was watching us on earth from an orbiting spacecraft that was around the moon pointing a television camera back at us, and the only three people that were not in that photograph were the crew of apollo 8, or in that broadcast. >> and we live in a very polarized world, and right now in the middle of a terrible war, several terrible walls, people have lost faith in institutions, people are completely polarized, and tribalized on so many issues, and even on climate, do you think the moon is kind of maybe the last institution and space travel and the exploration that people can trust in? >> going to the moon requires a

default setting that is not cynicism. it requires just the opposite. it actually requires faith in each other, trust in one's own abilities, to be improved by working with other people. all we really need is enough of us to work together, and we can truly change the world. right now, it seems as though it is not enough of us can work together. let's find an example of when that happens and i'm sorry, but going back to the moon is that very example writ large. >> let me ask you two film questions. ai, and the writers and actors strike, you had written and talked about how, when you were young, you had to scratch out a living, and you know, you earned your paycheck, it wasn't easy, and a lot of these writers and actors are in the same position, and so they went on strike and they're worried about ai. did you support the strike? >> oh, yes, yes. >> and what do you think is the actual result of the resolution? will that save them from the ai threat? >> i think there is a great

river, there's a rubicon that we are still crossing and i don't think we are quite in greece yet, excuse me, in rome yet, greece, that tells you where i go on vacation, doesn't it? and on the other hand of there, it is going to be a landscape that is certainly scientific and artistic, and ai is a tool that can be used for nefarious reasons, and it can also be used in order to make things possible that haven't been possible. the economics of particular the business of it, that is coming down, i think that is the area that we're in still very unfamiliar landscape. between everything that has happened with the lockdown, certainly the economics and streaming and we're not quite sure what works yet. if great stories that truly do reach people come out, and whatever tools you're going to use in order to tell the story, deep fake technology, ai, in order to buttress up the research that is out there, that's one thing, but in order to use it to make things

cheaper, faster, less interesting, quicker, whatever it is, well, then i don't know if i want to live in that realm. in that rome, but it has not been decided. we are still in the very malleable circumstance right now when it comes down to the art and science, and industry of telling stories. >> and you have to begin, you have to go out and denounce an ad that was used by ai, pretending yes, that was phishi information. they just wanted something to do. and that was about as primitive as you're going to get. here is the thing that has been proven ever since they put sprockets on celluloid, movies can lie to you, and you might enjoy being lied to and believe everything, but also movies can tell you a type of truth that is undeniable, both, you know, empirically, and also emotionally. and ai, along with the closeup, along with special effect shots, along with anything that is going to be some other tool that is going to be used by someone who is going to try to either

curry you a favor, and use it to their advantage, or move forward the art form. >> tom hanks, chris riley, thank you very much indeed. >> there you go, about this, ahhh. >> always a pleasure. >> and back here on earth, as the body count climbs in gaza, has the west failed the middle east? one of the top experts on the region tells me that he's lost faith in american foreign policy. we'll be right back.

first time i connected with kim, she told me that her husband had passed. and that he took care of all of the internet connected devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you.

welcome back. the death toll in gaza now stands at more than 17,000 palestinians, according to their health ministry there. since israel has claimed to have killed more than 5,000 hamas fighters, that would mean there are at least two civilians

killed for every militant. the biden administration has been increasingly warning its ally to protect the innocent. here are u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin and vice president kamala harris this week. >> too many innocent palestinians have been killed. frankly, the scale of civilian suffering and the images and videos coming from gaza are devastating. >> this kind of the fight, the center of gravity is the civilian population. if you drive into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat. >> one of the foremost experts has a deeply pessimistic view of today's american foreign policy. welcome back to the program. how do you think this war has affected or even changed the dynamic in the whole middle east? >> i have been talking about the middle east for the past 30, 40

years, i have never seen the region as boiling and implosive, as angry, there's so much hatred, there's so much rage, there's so much anger against both israel and the united states. my fear is that gaza could easily become a time bomb that implodes the region's stability. i cannot tell you the extent of the popular anger and resentment and rage against the united states. >> can i ask you, how is it that this catastrophe was able to happen? is there -- obviously hamas committed it. but did the u.s. take its eye off the ball? >> let me be direct. biden's foreign policy does not vary very much from trump's foreign policy. for the past two years, this

administration has not made any major investment in trying to stop the building of jewish settlements or try to bring about the establishment of a palestinian state. it pays lip service to the idea of a two-state solution. what did the biden administration do in the past one year? it has tried to build it on trump's deal of the century, to bring about normalization, between saudi arabia and israel, and why? because in the back of the mind, the biden administration, and the netanyahu government, normalization is saudi arabia, it would end the arab-israeli conflict. the underlying idea in the administration, and the biden administration, and benjamin netanyahu, is that the palestinians can be managed, the palestinians can be controlled, the palestinians can be subjugated. why should we invest in the peace process? >> so the united states, you're basically saying, and you have

observed, thought that it could, a, take its eye off the palestinian ball, and outsource that to these normalization deals between israel and the arab countries, with which it is not at war, and the same, you could say, for the arab countries, what has saudi arabia done, or the uae done, so what do you think the u.s. should do now? what is it saying? and what should the area leaders do? >> anyone who is interested in place in the region, anyone, should recognize that the so-called two-state solution that the united states has been talking about has been really paying lip service. has not really done anything. in fact, while the united states has been talking about a two-state solution, what has been happening on the ground? you have now almost one million settlers, one million, who live in occupied palestinian lands on the west bank in east jerusalem. israel was in a race, is in a

race against time, to steal palestinian line, to polarize the line, so in fact the talk of the two-state solution has brought about the consolidation of israel's military occupation and guess what, the undermining and the weakening of a palestinian authoritier to. >> what's now? how does the united states change the fierce loyalty which will never change to israel, and finally, move towards -- because it is only going to be an internationalist movement, it is not going to be the party leader who does it. >> you said you asked me and i'm sorry i really have no trust in american foreign policy. i have studied american foreign policy for many years. for american policy makers, they're decent people but they really don't have the guts and the moral trench to tell israel, enough. that american interests, and i'm talking as an american now, our interests lie in a stable

peaceful middle east. a peaceful stable middle east, it requires the palestinians, allowing the palestinians to have a sovereign nation, to end israel's occupation, to establish two states living side by side in peace. >> many who support palestinian statehood are also shocked, they believe hamas not only created the most depraved attack on civilians we've seen for a long, long time, i mean deliberate rapes, deliberate shooting in the genitals, killings of children, kidnappings of old people, holocaust survivors, and civilians. the very civilians who actually care about the palestinians, those who were the people, et cetera. has hamas finally and fatally miscalculated? and i'm also asking, because this is what, you know, this is what others are asking, if the palestinians really want a leadership that can engage with

the rest of the world, has hamas not put itself out of the calling, out of the bidding? >> the palestinians want dignity. the palestinians want emancipation. the palestinians want the end of israeli occupation. if you ask me now, who speaks for the palestinians, and it's sad to say, hamas now speaks for the palestinians. >> still. >> hamas now is the -- speaks for palestinian aspiration. >> and of course, israel continues its incursion, continues its offensive, and is saying that itg after the top military leaders of hamas. iran has so far stopped short of joining this war. but the iranian people's battle for basic human rights rages inside its borders. up next, why no jail cell can silence the winner of this year's nobel peace prize, and freedom fighter, an exclusive conversation with the family is up next. in

welcome back to the program. a woman, a human rights advocate, and a freedom fighter, that's how the nobel committee describes the fearless winner of this year's peace prize. now our guest mohammadi has been fighting religious tyranny and oppression in iran since a student and now locked in a prison with a ten year sentence for charges of pushing propaganda and her allies say that and say she is a political victim. narges mohammadi has been stopped from holding her twins for the last eight years.

karadzic traveled to the area. >> the proudest moment of their lives. the day to stand on the historic world stage in the oslo city hall to receive the peace prize, the nobel peace prize on behalf of their mother. >> this is a very difficult day for us. >> we joined them as they got a first look at the room where they will also present her nobel lecture, smuggled out of iran's prison. >> standing here, i'm trying to visualize the crowd, she tells us, we will have to live up to this. a lot of important people will be here. >> the 17-year-old twins the first language is french, they were not yet nine when they left iran with their father for self exile in paris after their mother was ripped away from them by a regime that has tried and

failed to silence her. >> translator: we are extremely proud of all that she's done. but what we are sad about today is she is not here, because we are not the ones that should be interviewed, that is my mother's right, but we are here doing our best to represent what is happening in iran. >> reporter: their mother has been punished time and time again, sentenced to a total of 31 years and 154 lashes for standing up for political prisoners against the death penalty in the compulsory hijab, and for exposing sexual assaults in prison. she has been accused of anti-regime propaganda, and threatening national security. her decades-long struggle for a free iran honored in this exhibition at the nobel peace center. >> so we are telling the story about narges. >> from this tiny cell with

narges and her husband locked up during solitary confinement. the exhibition and mohammadi's nobel win pay tribute to the 202 women freedom uprising. >> we're not just here for our family, but for freedom and democracy. we're feeling mostly proud, brave and determination, a determination we mostly got from our mother. >> i can't imagine what it has been like for you growing up without your mother being there. >> translator: from the time i was four, when my father was arrested by the revolutionary guards, i realized that my family would never have an ordinary life. my mother has been more than just any mother. she chose to fight the government for me and my sister, so that my sister could have the same rights as me. >> translator: of course at my life, i wanted her by my side, at puberty, your body changes

and the kind of question you would ask your mom, i had no one to ask so i had to figure it out myself and taken me shopping and how to handle makeup and handle my body. and frankly i'm glad she is alive and others have lost their loved ones and i can't even imagine what that feels like. >> the family says mohammadi has not been allowed to kill them in nearly two years and they are worried about ler deteriorating health. >> i'm not very optimistic about ever seeing her again. my mom has a ten-year sentence left, and every time she does something, like send out a speech, that we will read out at the ceremony, that adds to her sentence. whatever happens, she will always be in my heart and i accept that, because the struggle, the movement, my freedom, it is worth it. >> reporter: the pain of separation from her children is one mohammadi lives with every single day. i asked her about this in august, with the help of intermediaries in iran, and she

responded, in writing. mohammadi said, quote, if i look at the prison through the window of my heart, i was more of a stranger to my daughter and son than any stranger, but i'm sure that the world without freedom, equality, and peace, is not worth living. i have chosen not to see my children, or even hear their voices and be the voice of the oppressed people, women and children of my land. jomana karadsheh, cnn, oslo. up next, from one imprisoned freedom fighter to another. a look at nelson mandela's legacy, a decade after his death. >> i am prepared to die.

this week, we marked ten years since nelson mandela's death. he was elected to south africa's first black president, after more than 27 years in prison, for fighting apartheid. decades of brutal white minority rule. around the world, mandela is viewed as a moral compass, a model for how to emerge from conflict, agreeing to compromise, and preventing civil war. but in south africa today, the legacy of the african national congress is being undermined by staggeringly high unemployment and pervasive corruption. mandela spent most of his years behind bars at the infamous prison, reading and reflecting on history, and how to

eventually lead a nation. after his release, i visited robin island, to see the harsh inhumane conditions, and how his time there is still remembered. the ferry is not on a pleasure cruise. it is tracing a journey that humans used to make in chains, nine kilometers across the water on a one-way ticket to hell. tourists are mow coming to robin island, and the prison block that once held the world's most famous inmate. >> he came here in 1964. all believed we were monsters and anti-christ, and could never see the sunlight. >> lionel davis and other former inmates conduct the tours and explain how food and clothes were rationed by race, the assault, the beatings, and how afterwards, prisoners were forced to scrub their own blood from the cells. >> you will also notice that -- >> this is where nelson mandela

spent 18 of the 27 years behind bars, which made him a legend and his cell a shrine. where days in solitary confinement and nights on thin mats, shaped the prisoner who became president and fellow inmates who became his ministers. this is the area where they were forced to break lights, their eyesight permanently damaged by the glare. >> this was about pain. this is about people experiencing pain. and buckets. and >> it's hard to digest when you see the beauty and the wildlife sanctuary. it's hard to imagine the cruelty that was done here. nelson mandela called this the iron fist, the harshest outpost of south africa's penal system. it was after pressure from sympathetic south africans that conditions began to improve.

eventually they were allowed to study, to receive a visitor or a letter more than once every six months. but mandela had to lobby for three years for the right to wear sunglasses in the quarry. tourists come from abroad, but it's south africans, black and white, who find their day of reckoning here. >> it makes you feel that such an evil thing was done in this country. >> extreme sadness. we spent such a lot of time and energy and money and manpower and everything on people being locked away. my kids have to live with that. >> sadly, that happens all too often around the world. the next generation paying for the mistakes and misdeeds of their predecessors. now, as we reflect on nelson mandela's legacy, here's a look from my archive and interview with mandela's last surviving fellow prisoner. pe peter hayne joined us for this

conversation. >> we're happy to be sentenced even to life imprisonment. we're happy, because we escaped the death penalty. we know that ultimately we will come out. but we're very, very excited and happy that we're not sentenced to death. >> andrew, do you remember that moment when the world whole was watching the release? >> yes. >> what emotion did you feel when you saw that? >> i was quite happy to see him come out. i said to myself that the government kept their promise that after a few months, he will follow. >> just a few months before his

release? >> to see how the people in the country are going to behave, because originally they were saying we fear that if we relrez mandela, the country will go up in flames. when they released us, we knew how they would behave. >> were you angry when you came out? were you resentful of the injustice of all those years in prison? >> all of us decided that we cannot hon our own run the country that time. we did not have the knowledge of

governing the country. we were denied all the other things that white children had learned. we didn't have that. the whites that live in south africa together with us and we are saying we've got to work together and try to bring peace in the country. >> these were such important thoughts and policy decisions. he died in july 2020. in south africa today, many of the black majority mandela liberated warned that his legacy is being tarnished by unworthy successors. when we come back, more of your questions and my answers.

welcome back. clarity is more important than ever in our complicated world. that's why i'm taking questions about the events shaping tomorrow. let's see what's on your mind this week. >> as a concerned citizen of the world and as a father of an 11-year-old girl, how can i add to the democratic voice of the world? democracy is starting to feel increasingly like an endangered species? >> i think you can add, and everybody can, by teaching our children civics, by teaching them to be engaged, by teaching them that what they do matters. it is true that there are right now more illiberal democracies

around the world. ukraine's fight for our democracy and their own makes us realize that everything is at stake right now. that's all we have time for. i'll have more of your questions and my answers next week. if you want to ask me a question, scan the qr code on your screen. tell us your name and where you're from. you can find all our shows online as podcasts on cnn.com/podcasts and on all other major platforms. thanks for watching. i'll see you again next week. hello, everyone. thank you so much for joining me. i'm fredericka witfield. we begin this hour wit