giuliani's defamation trial. shaye moss spoke of how her life changed when trump's former lawyers spoke about conspiracy lies about her leading to death threats. i'm most scared of my mom finding me or my son finding me outside on a tree or having to get the news from school that haze mama was skilled. and also hearing some of the mose racist and violent threats she and her mom received. and i will warn you these are graphic threats. >> have a nice life. >> this is shaye. >> a federal judge has already found rudy giuliani guilty of defamation. before we go an important programming note. my friend anna bash is goat to sit down with nikki haley and governor chris sununu endorsing her of course tomorrow at noon, and you'll want to see that with

dana. thanks so much for joining us. ac 360 starts now. tonight on "360" with ukraine's president in washington seeking more aid and congressional republicans resisting, president biden now says the u.s. will support ukraine for as long as it can instead of as long as it takes. also tonight harrowing testimony from a georgia election workering about what the lies rudy giuliani told about her and her mom did to their live. that and a warning a judge gave him about continuing to spread misinformation. and later the newest example of how cnn's exclusive reporting on sexual misconduct in the coast guard is getting results this time on capitol hill. good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight with ukraine's war to drive russian forces out at a stalemate and efforts in washington to fund that war apparently at a standstill. tonight no sign yet that president volodymyr zelenskyy's meetings today with president biden and top lawmakers have done anything to break that

logjam. house republicans are still demanding large scale concessions on migration from mexico before agreeing to any new aid from ukraine. and a number of them say they oppose it regardless. over on the senate side republican leader mitch mcconnell who does favor more ukraine funding said it would be, quote, practically impossible to pass a funding measure before christmas even the two sides reach an agreement. president biden said he was hopeful of the chances of that happening, but that was one of several messages happening today. he also signaled the limits of what washington may be able to deliver, the difference what between what it take and when it can. and also warns republicans against giving vladimir putin what he calls, quote, the greatest christmas gift they could possibly give him. and the president reminding the russian media is already gloating about aid staff standoff and now gop opposition benefits them. >> the host of a kremlin run show literally said and i quote, well-done, republicans, that's good for us, end of quote.

let me say that again. this host of a kremlin-run show said well-done, republicans, that's good for us. that's a russian speaking. if you're being celebrated by russian propagandists, it might be time to rethink what you're doing. >> whatever they do or don't do, time is running out. congress breaks for the holidays on friday. cnn's m.j. lee starts off our coverage from the white house. the president has long said the u.s. is ready to support ukraine for as long as it takes. was that still his message today? because it didn't sound like it. >> reporter: yeah, anderson, for as long as it as takes is the refrain we've long heard from president biden when it comes to ukraine, but we heard something a little bit different from the president tonight. he said the u.s. will continue to supply ukraine with the supplies and the equipment it that it needs for as long as we can. this is hareally subtle difference. what i think just goes to capture the immense challenges that the biden administration is now facing as it tries to

continue showing its steadfast support for ukraine including by approving the supplemental package that includes some $60 billion of additional funding for ukraine. you know, evnl after president zelenskyy went to capitol hill personally to try to make this appeal to lawmakers, it didn't seem like he was successful in swaying any of the members who are not convinced this is the right road to take. i think this is a visit that has all in all sort of highlighted the very different place that the u.s. is in and congress certainly is in compare today the last time that president zelenskyy came here to the whougswhite house a year ago when he really received a heroes welcome. he was allowed to make a speech to congress and got bipartisan and overwhelming other for the ukrainian cause, anderson. >> it's interesting to hear president biden driving home how closely russia is watching the u.s. right now. >> that's right. you know, in so many ways i think president biden's speech

was actually aimed squarely at vladimir putin. he said right off the top of his remarks that putin is banking on the u.s. to fail in its efforts to support ukraine and that we must prove him wrong, is what president biden said. and some of the sound you just played is so remarkable because the president was basically saying that the issues we are seeing, the fights that we are seeing over this funding for ukraine, taking place on capitol hill, this isn't just domestic policy and political he said that the kremlin is watching, vladimir putin is watching. he said if you're being celebrated by russian propagandists, it might be time to rethink what you are doing. there was also another overarching message not just it's russia watching but other would-be aggressors. and the president saying this is going to send a message to what other would-be bad actors could be able to do in taking forcibly

lands and territories from other democracies, and that is why this is such an existential fight we're talking about, according to the president. >> m.j. lee at the white house, thank you. today's visit by zelenskyy came on a day we got an indication really the price russia has paid for invading ukraine in human lives. a source familiar with that assessment telling cnn it says russia has now lost 87% of the active duty ground troops that it had prior to the invasion. 87% killed or wounded since the war began. now, that says -- said and it's frankly staggering to even imagine ukrainian forces are paying a terrible price as well. cnn's anna coren recently spoke with some of them about how vital western aid has been and what many of them fear would happen when it dries up. >> with the modern weapons and the western weapons of course they're more accurate and they bring let's say more damage to -- to the enemy. i'm afraid ukraine will not be able to stand without our partners and allies.

as simple as that. if we let ukraine go, if we let pulet putin win, then who will feel themselves safe here? i think no one. >> we're joined now by cnn's nick paten walsh in ukraine. president zelenskyy said his goal for 2024 is quote, take away russian superiority and disrupt its defensive operations. what are you seeing and hearing about whether he can do that without more u.s. aid? >> reporter: yeah, without f-16s i think it's a very long shot they can reverse the problem they faced in the last counter offensive this summer, which is the air superiority. they simply could not conduct the pace of warfare nato had train them to do, nato expected them to pull off. president volodymyr zelenskyy unless something pops out of his hat later this week has laid his cards down, met congressional

leaders, met president biden and not come up with the money that is deeply needed by his front line troops here. we've seen in the past days a real sense of concern, anger, frustration amongst troops really it's going to be tough to continue this defense, let alone try to take back the territory without the billions they've been accustomed to receiving or been announced every other week or so. zelenskyy comes back, too, to a country deeply anxious about the winter. civilian areas pounded relentlessly day and night, almost like two armies duking it out inside the town even though the russians are across the other side of the river. he also comes back, too, to a nation that had experienced cell disruption throughout today. likely ukraine security services say because of a russian cyber attack. that's impacted air-raid sirens here, the air-raid alert apps you get on your phone. even here in this town they've

had to turn the streetlights off manually. so a lot of disruption there, and to a political climate, the creasingly intense for zelenskyy as well. his defense minister joked about how his chief of staff here run the counter oftsive had indeed been fire. a joke indeed but a sign of tension between the president and the man who runs the operations here. it's going to difficult this winter regardless of whether not the money suddenly comes out of nowhere wch we've some had suggesting doctors may not get their salaries as aurally as january. as you say this is exactly what vladimir putin has been waiting for. western resolve, western unity remarkably coherent for the past nearly two years on this issue. beginning to crumble, beginning to tie up the existential issue whether ukraine could defend itself from russia. a lot of nato allies in the u.s. desperately need them to do the

fight for them here. many ukrainians deeply worried they're beginning to see a winter of infrastructure attacks and vladimir putin emboldened thinking finally he's out waited the west. >> nick paten walsh. now more on the resistance cnn's manu raju at the capitol for us tonight. what was the response from republicans in congress to the visit? was he able to move the needle at all? >> reporter: no, really he wasn't, anderson. even among the staunch supporters of ukraine aid, chief among them the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell, still in the same position they were as they headed into this meeting. that there needs to be a deal over new policies dealing with the u.s. border with mexico and the influx of migrants coming across the southern border. they want a significant amount of changes whether it's dealing with asylum reform or changing how the president grants parole to migrants coming across the barrier, putting new in new

physical barriers and the like, issues that have wildly divided the two parties for years and years and years. but they say that can be dealt with first before they can green light aid to ukraine, which is why there are real fears about the pres pects given the divisions that continue to persist all the issue. despite those pleas, anderson, they said immigration must come first. >> for more on what happens if american aid dries up we're joined by retired lieutenant general mark hurtling. can you walk us through what it looks like if the flow of weapons from the u.s. slows or is shot off completely? >> yeah, there's a couple things to talk about, anderson. the first, what your previous reporters have all addressed, and that is i think i was sitting with you on the 22nd of

february in studio when i one of putin's strategic goals was to further divide a divided united states and a divided nato. i think president biden is absolutely correct. putin is receiving a gift right now from a strategic perspective. from a tactical perspective, all battles, all wars have inflection points. ukraine is at one of those inflection points right now. they cannot afford any disruption in their logistic supply chain. any kind of delay including draw down authority, more equipment, more support, and even the appearance of less support as mr. putin is seeing right now is critically important to ukraine because they can't keep the fight going as nick paten walsh said. the other thing that's important is we are entering a new season. this is the winter fighting season. ukraine has been so far successful operationally on the battlefield. they have gained more ground in their counter offensive. they certainly haven't gained everything they wanted to, but

they have gained some. and what you're seeing now is the potential for them to go into a hasty defense situation and continue to strike long-range russian ammo cashes, fuel depots, troop movements, which they can do with our help. if we take away the ammunition while at the same time russia is being supplied with drones and artillery from places like iran and north korea, the fight will become uneven. and again as m.j. lee said, this is an existential threat for ukraine. they have to have a continuation of logistics in this fight. >> what can ukrainians do right now to prepare for -- i mean, will russia be able to go on the offensive? >> well, they've been trying to do that the last several weeks. we've heard a little bit about that. they have not been successful. russia has attempted to maneuver some of their new recruits into areas where they think they can be more successful. so far ukraine has fought back

and defended extremely well in the winter campaign, but they can't do that forever. especially if their ammunition supplies are divideling. europe is continuing to try to bolster the efforts, but kr truthfully nato and the united states have learned a lesson that the supply systemvise to be more robust than therapy at the start of this campaign. that's something we've all taken away because what we saw as a peace dividend in the 1990s with russia is suddenly exactly the opposite what russia is doing today. they are executing warfare and especially new nato members like romania or the baltics or croatia are very concerned about a newly emboldened russia expanding beyond their territory. and putin in fact has even said that. >> general hurtling, i appreciate it. coming up next rudy giuliani confronted in court on his falsehoods and a warning a judge gave him about repeating them, which he did yesterday. also with the former

president claiming he's eimmune from criminal proceedings someone a part of the story the last time they were asked to decide that john dean. his take on all of that when we continue.

when we left you last night rudy giuliani just doubled down on false allegations about the mother and daughter of the 2020

election workers whose lives he has already up ended, false allegations he's already been found liable for in federal court. that's on day one of the penalty phase of his civil trial ended. day two ended in testimony from one of the women he defame asked a warning to him from the judge. cnn's brian todd has more. >> reporter: powerful evidence in the defamation case against former trump attorney rudy giuliani. the jury hearing threatening voice mails sent to two former georgia election workers. >> we're going to burn your store down. >> reporter: also powerful testimony from one former election worker shaye mauze about how rudy giuliani's conspiracy theories devastated her life after the 2020 election. moss telling a federal court giuliani's crazy lies about her and her mother spread everywhere at the time and led to threats against her family. quote, i'm more scared of my family finding me or my son

hanging out on a tree or having to get news his mama was killed. rudy giuliani inexplicably doubled down on the lies. >> everything i said about them is true. >> do you regret what you did to -- >> of course i don't regret. i told the truth. they were engaged in changing votes. >> reporter: there is no proof of that, and the judge in the civil defamation case against giuliani rebuked the former new york mayor saying his wrosh quote, negative defamatory statements about the two women could support another defamation claim. >> rudy giuliani should know this is not going to help his cause. it is going to deepen the hole he is in, and yet he keeps digging. >> reporter: the judge has already ruled in this case that giuliani spread false information about moss and freeman in the wake of the 2020 election. giuliani has conceded he did make detam foyer statements about them, but he's argued the statements didn't cause them any

damage even statements like one he made to the georgia state legislature telling them moss and freeman were corrupting the vote count. >> they're surreptitiously passing around u.s. as if they're heroine and cocaine. >> reporter: they told the house january 6th committee about. >> i don't want anyone knowing my name. i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere at all. >> these are public servants, and he's essentially put them out there and caused them to be targeted by hateful people, by people who are seeking to do them harm. and he's really upended their lives. >> reporter: rudy giuliani already owes shaye moss and ruby freeman more than $230,000 for failing to respond to parts of

their lawsuit. a few months ago in a court filing giuliani said he's essentially broke because of all of his legal costs so a judgment against him in this case would put him even further in debt. >> from civil to criminal court now. there's the fallout from special counsel jack smith's push to get the former president's claim of immunity in the january 6th case on a fast track to the supreme court. as we discussed last night this could be a decision that ranks among the most consequential for the high court. perhaps the closest the court came was in 197 # with u.s. v. nixon which compelled president nixon to turn over those watergate tapes. i'll get perspective with john dean and former white house counsel. john, in terms of any significance does any prior supreme court case compared today the immunity ruling that smith is seeking in the trump case? >> no.

it is a -- it is a pinnacle. >> i mean, in u.s. v. nixon the question was whether a president has executive privilege in a subpoena fight, not necessarily immunity from the criminal trial, so is there actual precedent from the nixon case that could or should apply to the trump case? >> you know, there's a little bit of language in what they call the dicta, the sort of just remarks of what indicated the court then thought a president had criminal exposure. but it's never been spelled out, never been fully addressed, never been fully briefed. >> during watergate woodward and bernstein they wrote about the decision to appeal to the supreme court saying, quote, it was risky, very, very risky. suppose the justice said no, suppose it was an angry no, suppose it was a surcastic reminder to juwarsky. do yo you see any potential down

sides to jack smith's gambit? >> i don't. i think he is one step ahead. i think he's got a stronger case than nixon had, for example, with the tapes. and certainly that trump has in this case for total immunity. >> given the dispute over immunity to say nothing of the ongoing dispute over judge chutkan's gag order do you think there's any way in which trump's federal election subversion trial starts on time in early march? >> it's got a shot now. we'll see what the high court does in taking this on and how long it takes them to deliberate. in the nixon case they did it from start to finish, anderson, in 61 days. >> and given the make-up of the court, how do you think they'd rule if they took the case? >> well, that's harder to tell. you know, if conservatives are being true conservatives, they're not going to say that a president, any president is above the law. so once they take that case on,

if they take it on, i think they will, they're going to go the distance and find my immunity for a president. >> john dean, thanks for your time. >> thank you. just ahead as intense fighting in gaza continues, you've got two breaking new stories on the ground there involving israel new attempt to go after hamas underground and also the fraying relationship between president biden and prime minister netanyahu. we'll haveve detetails on bobote stories ahahead.

i'm a little anxious, i'm a little excited. i'm gonna be emotional, she's gonna be emotional, but it's gonna be so worth it. i love that i can give back to one of our customers. i hope you enjoy these amazing gifts. oh my goodness. oh, you guys. i know you like wrestling, so we got you some vip tickets. you have made an impact. so have you. for you guys to be out here doing something like this, it restores a lot of faith in humanity. two breaking news stories involving israel's ground operations in gaza. a u.s. official tells cnn israel

has informed the u.s. it's begun flooding some tunnels in gaza under seawater in, quote, limited basis. but and these are his words, quote, i don't know that for a fact. also breaking tonight the rift between spilled into public today. he also criticized netten anyah conservative government. we want to begin with the tunnels and alex marquardt in tel aviv tonight. what do we know about the flooding? >> it could be a significant new tactic in what we believe are hundreds of miles of tunnels at least according to hamas' claims. they're doing it in tunnels where they do not believe the hostages are. they're flooding those tunnels

with seawater. according to u.s. officials speaking to our colleague natasha bertrand there, unsure how successful it's going to be. president biden he said he'd heard the assertions the tunnels being flooded did not have any hostages in them, but he did confirm that. he did express his concerns for all civilians in gaza. remember, anderson, it would not just be destroying the tunnel system. it would not just be destroying the weapons that are down there, of course it could benefit israel if they were able to flood those tunnels and kill hamas militants. but there are still quite a few hostages who are there, 135 according to the idf, 116 of whom i should specify are still alive. >> and what else are you learning about this divide between president biden and netanyahu? >> reporter: well, it really does appear to be growing. that daylight appears to be growing. the two men made comments today that showed they are increasingly at odds on some

very important issues. we heard some of the most pointed comments by biden today about prime minister netanyahu and his government and the war in gaza. he said to donors -- this was at a campaign event raising money, that prime minister netanyahu needs to change, but that it is difficult because of his far-right government. he said that -- that israel is rapidly losing global support because of what he called the indiscriminate bombing that is taking place. he went onto talk about this government that has all these far-right ministers that he says don't want anything remotely approaching a two-state solution. he says they want retribution against all palestinians. now, the biden administration has said repeatedly they want a two-state solution. but we have seen differences from both israel and the u.s. about who will rule in not just gaza but in the west bank following this war. the biden administration has said they want a reformed

palestinian authority. israel has said we certainly do not want the palestinian authority to have any kind of control. and netanyahu is right there seemingly with his far-right members of the government in that he has not expressed any real support or any interest in a two-state solution, which is very important for the u.s. >> alex marquardt, thank you. i want to get perspective from cnn political analyst. we've heard two different points of view biden and netanyahu and the war. how does the rift go? if netanyahu doesn't want palestinian authority running gaza, are they still talking about qatar coming in, egyptian forces coming in? what is the plan? >> good evening, anderson. well, i think that, you know, when you read biden's comments from earlier today. and by the way, everyone who is

interested in u.s.-israel relations this text is a must. i read it from top to bottom. biden says amazing things. he tells about the phone call he had with netanyahu when he tells netanyahu, listen, you have to be more careful with palestinian civilians in gaza with your air strikes, and netanyahu tells him what do you want from me? what about the carpet bombing you guys did in world war ii and the nuclear bomb you threw on japan, and biden says i told him this is not the 1940s anymore. we're in a different era. i think it's very interesting comments, and i think it shows more than anything that unlike others in u.s. politics, biden on the one hand he sees himself as a very big friend of israel. on the other hand he does not equate israel with netanyahu or his government. he makes this distinction, and it's a very interesting point. >> at this stage i mean what do most israelis think of

netanyahu? >> i mean given the huge intelligence failures, given he's not accepted any responsibility whereas other members of his government and military intelligence has? >> well, anderson, you see a very interesting thing in the polls. between 75% and 80% of israelis support the war. and the same amount of people say they want netanyahu to go the day the war ends. so they want to destroy hamas, and they want to basically destroy netanyahu plolitically which is a very interesting phenomenon i don't remember in israeli politics. i think the day this war ends or more exactly the day the high intensity phase of the war ends, which is not very far away from now. we're talking between 3 to 8 weeks, i think the political gain will start moving in israel, and there will be this snowball effect that will most likely take us to an election in israel in the next six months.

>> you still have these right-wing members of the government, of netanyahu. what is their plan? what is it they want? >> i think the ultra-nationalist, the leader of the faf right party jewish power and the fact by the way joe biden the president of the united states knows him by name and can explain, you know, his world view is also something very interesting. but a lot of analysts in israel think this guy has the most interest to topple the current government because he sees netanyahu as very weak right now, and he might be planning that when netanyahu announces that the first phase of the war is over, he might be planning to resign and say, you know, i wanted today go on, but netanyahu is the one who stopped this. he's not right wing enough so we should go to election and everyone who sees himself as right wing should volt for me

and not vote for netanyahu. >> you reported israel is likely to order border crossing between gaza and israel to allow aid trucks to enter. what prompted this and how much aid could potentially get in to gaza through this crossing? >> what prompted this was pretty strong u.s. pressure, and our colleague jeremy diamond report earlier today that jake sullivan, the national security advisor, is going to raise this in his meeting in jerusalem later this week and that he's going to press the israelis. and not long after this story ran, i got a call from a senior israeli official that told me, listen, most likely we're going to approve this u.s. request. and the reason for it is obviously that they don't want to see a humanitarian crisis in gaza. but more interesting is they need the u.s. support for the ground operation to continue, and for that to happen they need to do what the u.s. asked them

on humanitarian support for gaza. >> thank you as always. next, testimony on capitol hill from four women about the sexual assault they endured at the u.s. coast guard academy as the u.s. investigates how the coast guard investigates abuse. our pamela brown's exclusive reporting on here onon "360" leading up to this m moment.

on capitol hill today a senate hearing sparked by exclusive reporting on this program earlier this year by pamela brown and her team about how leaders of coast guard academy buried findings of an investigation of sexual asulates. four women who attended theed academy from the late 1970s to today each sharing how they say leaders failed to protect them. then they spoke to pamela brown who first broke this story. here's her report. >> nothing but the truth so help you god. >> reporter: these four women all say tathey were sexually assaulted by the coast guard in different eras. >> i was groped several times sometimes with 30 laughing witnesses. over the course of three days he repeatedly raped me in that room. >> two first class cadets broke down my roommates and my locked door, entered our room and jumped onto our beds on top of

us. >> reporter: tincluding a curret cadet at the coast guard academy. >> what i thought was an innocent ice-cream date on campus turned into a sexual assault that has haunted me ever since. >> reporter: a rare bipartisan hearing investigating the way coast guard handles reports of sexual abuse. >> i've been here more than 12 years is this probably some of the most powerful, important, and on point testimony i've heard. >> we learned about the filed anchor report only because cnn found out about it, reported on it. >> reporter: cnn first uncovered a history of sexual assaults in the agency that were ignored or mishantled. the coast guard substantiated dozens of investigations called operation fouled anchor, but the results were covered up for years. the survivors spoke of having their reports of assaults mishandled. >> the same company commander admitted he didn't start an investigation because, quote, he figured that it happened on a date. you do have blonde hair, and you

wear make-up. >> reporter: and while current cadet kira grace says cover-ups are no longer a problem at the coast guard academy from her experience, there are still damaging missteps. >> and then i got to talk to a chaplain. and when i went to talk to that chaplain he asked me who assaulted me, and i told him. and he said, oh, no, he's such a good guy. >> reporter: the women spoke of the pain and feeling of betrayal that still lingers. some even decades later. >> so this is in many ways been a blessing for me because i finally have a diagnosis for the things that i thought were just personality quirks these last 20 years was actually in fact ptsd. >> reporter: last week the coast guard released the results of an internal review admitting it failed to keep our people safe, and change is necessary. but the report doesn't include any punishment of assailants from the past. >> it's insulting.

it's patronizing. >> reporter: after the hearing we sat down with three of the survivors. >> i love that they want to help future cadets, but then they just left this mass carnage in their wake. >> and what does that look like for you personally that mass carnage? >> looks like a lot of expensive therapy. it looks like broken relationships, you know, lost family, suicide attempts. >> reporter: mulis mccafferty attempted suicide six years ago. >> the level that this organization pushed me to, and i am beyond lucky to be here today. i am beyond luckily. i frankly do not know how i survived. i flat lined in the ambulance, and i flat lined at the hospital yet here i am. >> reporter: what do you say to the women and the men who have been sexually assaulted and who haven't told anyone? >> i feel stronger today than i did yesterday. you made me feel weak.

no, that ain't the case anymore. now i'm stronger. >> pamela, the women you speak with today they're skeptical there's going to be any meaningful change. what's the coast guard saying today after their testimony. >> well, anderson, once again the coast guard apologized to the victims for its failures and vowed change. saying in a statement given to cnn we recognize and applaud the tremendous courage of the women who came forward to share their personal stories at today's hearing. their reflections and recommendations and those of all survivors are essential to our efforts to continuously improve our prevention and response policy. so, anderson, it remains to be seen if this change will happen. of course we're going to stay on top of it. >> pamela brown, you've just done incredible, incredible work on this for a long, long time. thank you. >> thank you. and thank tuesday the whole team. as you know it's a team effort, anderson. >> stextraordinary work. just ahead this is the site of cnn's town hall with

desantis. we're going to preview the challenge for desantis less than 5 weeks out from the iowa caucus next.

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ferential welcome back. take a look at the scene of grand view university in des moines, iowa. about 10 minutes from now presidential candidate ron santis will appear at my town hall. governor desantis double digits

behind the former president in national state polls and now trying to fend off a surging nikki haley. she got an endorsement in new hampshire by >> a sweet older woman who has come to a lot of events. i saw her coming in here. she said, so, are you going to finally endorse nikki haley for president? you bet your ass i am. let's get this done. we are all in on nikki haley, undoubtedly. [ cheers and applause ] you can feel the energy! you can feel it! when you look at the ground game that nikki laid, it's unbelievable. when i have seen her interest are -- interact with folks, she gets

it. >> it's a good pick-up. the expected endorsement was meaningful. joining me now, kate beckinfield and david urban. do you think desantis has a charge to surge? >> i think it's an uphill battle. trump has only gained ground in the polls. that doesn't sub suggest there' room for somebody to move ahead. i think tonight what he needs to do is connect with voters on a hugh p human level. we saw the candidates go back and forth and attacking each other and their policy positions. what desantis has an opportunity to do is to tell his own story, to connect in a way that makes a

republican voter say, i trust him and he is somebody i want to see in the white house. >> that's the strength of the town halls theoretically for a candidate. i think it's why they like doing it. it's an audience of people who very well want to vote for a republican, probably like desantis, and as kate said, they want to see him as a human being. the poll says 51% of likely caucus goers say trump is the first, desantis far behind. do you see any scenario in which desantis or haley suddenly surge over the next month? >> listen, it's a impossible to push that big rock up a hill. last month in october, desantis was down by three. he did move. nikki haley stayed static. i don't think there's any universe he wins iowa. it's important that he has a

strong second place finish. if he finishes in the mid 20s, that would be a big victory. give him momentum going into new hampshire where he may not fare as well. he has his eggs in one basket here in iowa. he needs to do well and on january 15th. >> in the same poll, 51% -- excuse me, 73% of likely caucus goers believe donald trump can beat joe biden despite his legal problems. >> that tells me the other republican candidates have a huge uphill climb. you have a former president who is mired in court, who is charged with trying to subvert our democracy. the republican base in iowa believes that he can win. that tells me immediately in the short-term, it's a hard task for any republican to get traction, because he has this really intense specific loyalty with republican voters. >> unless they get mired in court.

>> they have five weeks to overthrow our democratic system. broadly, it tells me that the general election in november will be very close. i think there's a tendency a year out to lock at polls and say, biden is stumbling, if trump were convicted, he couldn't win. that's not the case. our country is polarizes. the bases are loyal to their party. there's a very small sliver of truly persuadable moderate voters. that's where the election is won or lost. the fact donald trump's legal troubles don't have republican voters saying, this isn't the guy we want to put forward to defeat the sitting president, means this is going to be a very close race. >>touted an endorsement. could the sununu endorsement help haley enough on the margins that she pulls off a strong second place showing? >> i think she will. you have independents and democrats allowed to vote in that primary. i think she will do well.

she will have a much stronger showing than in iowa. she's hoping that's going to slingshot her into south carolina with some momentum. as you said, the person at the top of the polls by a long, long, long margin is donald trump by double digits. that's not changing in iowa. that's not going to change in new hampshire. it's not going to change in south carolina. a lot of republicans are going to shrug their shoerulders. >> kate, in -- there's this other poll. let me get this. "wall street journal" poll, trump leads biden. nikki haley would beat biden. do you buy that? >> i don't think it's surprising given what we have seen about how voters are feeling about a biden/trump rematch. we have seen a lot of voters saying they would like another option. what i think is that were nikki haley to draw an inside straight

and become the republican nominee, she would be in the base barrel. i think it's representative of what this matchup would look like if she became the republican nominee, which seems like it's a long shot. >> thanks so much. the cnn town hall with ron desantis minutes away.

another look at the cnn town hall with ron desantis. a lot riding on his ability to connect with voters. turnout he says will be key. nikki haley and chris sununu, who just endorsed her, sit down for an interview tomorrow with dana bash. see it at noon eastern time. first the cnn republican presidential town hall with governor ron desantis, it starts now. ♪