that's tonight on laura coates live. well, there's a huge story coming out pretty late tonight about the detroit news. and they are reporting it has recordings of president trump putting a lot of pressure on two wayne county canvassers not to certify the 2020 election. on that phone call, back on november 17th of 2020, trump tells the two republicans, quote, we've got to fight for our country. we can't let these people take our country away from us. hm. the detroit news said the chairman of the rnc tells them, quote, if you can go home tonight, do not sign it. we will get you attorneys. unquote. to which trump then says, quote, we'll take care of that. well that's something.

for someone under multiple counts of conspiracy to defraud the united states. this was a tight race in michigan. biden winning by the skin of his teeth some would say. it's the latest piece of information that we are getting of many, a fire hose worth of details about what trump was doing to actually stay in power. makesyou wonder what else is out there? special council jack smith, does he have something else up his sleeve? right now, smith is fighting for the supreme court to decide whether trump has presidential immunity. he is telling the court, quote, the charges here are of the utmost gravity. this case involves for the first time in our nation's history criminal charges against a former president based on his actions while in office. trump's lawyers are trying to do the opposite. asking the court not to

intervene, delay, delay, delay. but the high court is going to have to act whether it wants to wait or not. it will need to decide if trump is in fact immune. and a decision we are learning could be imminent. here is law professor steve. >> i suspect we will hear from the supreme court one way or the other by the end of the day arm to. and the real question here is whether the justices want to move even faster than the dc circuit and federal appeals court. >> it will decide if trump can be blocked from the colorado ballot. it will need to decide if a federal obstruction law can be used to prosecute people involved in the january 6th attack. it will need to hear trump's arguments about gag orders. and he now wants them to weigh in on a civil suit against him for defaming e. jean carroll.

he is ask. why? because a key priority for trump in his presidency, a key focus was the judiciary. appointing judges. he appointed more than 200 federal judges and of course we know, three supreme court justices. justices that he had a habit of referring to as his, quote unquote judges. as if maybe they are indebted to him. just so we are clear, they are not indebted to him. or, that they work for him. and to be clear, they do not work for him. and while he has moved the federal judiciary to the right in many ways, the conservative court has not always ruled in his favor. in 2022, it rejected his attempt to keep the house january 6th committee from getting presidential documents. remember that? and the court gave the go ahead for congress to get ahold of his tax returns and he fought tooth and nail to shield them.

these cases are coming in hot. will they be his judges? or will they be their own? i want to bring in jonathan kenlock, a democratic member of that wayne county board of canvassers back in 2020. a lot of us are hearing this for the first time and they are stunned about not knowing it until now. but also wondering how much more is out there. what is your reaction to the details of this? this is the president being minutely involved in the county level to stay in office. what is your reaction? >> my reaction is after the republicans initially did not certify in the election, we had a conversation or took a little break and we had a conversation in the back room to talk about

the importance of them certifying the election. as we were talking, they did mention that they are under a lot of pressure. so knowing they were under a lot of pressure when we reconvened, we voted to certify the election and then we also voted to wave any reconsideration of the action we took. so they knew they were going to be under a lot of pressure. but there is no way in the world did i or anyone in that room know that the president of the united states would be calling into the parking lot to talk to two members of the wayne county board of canvasses. never would have imagined it. when we did find out they had spoken with the president, when i asked monica palmer what did he talk about, she said to me that he just thanked them for their service. i thought that was kind of awkward. and so, you know, we just went along with the day.

next thing you know, all of this is coming out a few years later. >> jonathan, to hear someone say we are under a lot of pressure, many would think we are under a deadline. right? it's an election, we have to get this done. who would have thought they meant that the pressure was being placed on them from as you say a president of the united states? did you know anything about precisely what trump and even ron mcdaniel had told the canvassers? or did you learn like the rest of us? >> not at all. didn't have any idea. what they said, they were under a lot of pressure. i knew and understood it to mean they are under a lot of pressure from the party. i'm thinking the michigan republican party. so, i just left it there. i never imagined that the purpose

was to interfere. i never thought he would interfere at that level. we never had. that is one of the things i mentioned to monica palmer, we never had any interference from our party officials. democrat or republican. the secretary of state, governor, or anyone have we ever had to worry about them calling us and trying to weigh in onsetter fewing on the election, understanding this. that certifying the election was not about us determining anything. it is a ministerial duty. and there was nothing for us to decide. for some reason, they felt that they, i'm talking about they being the president of the united states, they believed that they could actually stop the process from moving forward. and that is just amazing.

they would not know this. >> you are talking about of course the rnc. you know, for many people, they are having a little bit of a where have i heard this before? somebody having a ceremonial function, someone telling them they shouldn't do so. it reminds me a lot of vice president mike pence and january 6th. now you know this has happened, and we are all learning about what pressure meant to these individuals, do you want to see an investigation into all of this? >> absolutely. what happened in michigan and elsewhere around the country cannot happen again. we cannot have a single individual trying to turn election norms on its head to the point of driving people to believe that they hold these

high offices and can unilaterally stop the people's voices from being heard. we absolutely need to take a look at this and i'm sure our attorney general and our secretary of state who have been very involved in reviewing a lot of what has happened both before the 2020 presidential election as well as afterwards. it is just, it keeps spinning out of control more and more information comes out how they try to undermine our state and our nation's election process. >> jonathan, i wonder what is out there. thanks for joining us. >> thank you for inviting me. now i want to dig into this with an attorney, jeffrey. he is author of the nine, inside the secret world of the supreme court as well as home grown. timothy mcvey and the rise of right wing extremism. it is good to see you, i want to pick your brain about this. honestly, the fact we are

hearing about all this. this call, another call, not just the find me x number of votes. the discussed pressure campaigns we know of that is already documented, maybe fullton county allegations. but now a call in michigan. it seem to be more proof of his effort to stay in power. do you think that jack smith is going to try to use this as part of his case in dc? >> certainly it is suggestive and important. the most important thing is what is actually said on the phone call. i haven't heard the phone call yet. and everything depends on exactly what is said. on the one hand, for then president trump said look, be careful. do your job. be scrupulous, don't rush. that's one thing he has a first amendment right to say that. but if he says don't do your job, don't do what the law

requires you to do, which certainly is what he appeared to say in georgia which is certainly an important part of the case, that is potentially another criminal offense. but you know, what is said is very important. the good news is it appears this is on tape. so jack smith and everyone else can decide. it won't be a matter of interpretation. we will know the actual facts. >> and a jury has to figure out how to weigh the credibility. let's talk about not just a jury population or court of public opinion. but the supreme court. they will have to decide questions about presidential immunity and the colorado ballot issue. this will have to play out for the second time in decades when the supreme court weighs in heavily. who is on the ballot and what the outcome might be.

much to their own chagrin. how do you see this shaking out? >> well, i think it depends on the issue. i think trump has some of these cases, his position is pretty strong. some of them it is pretty weak. >> i mean the immunity issue in particular. immunity and colorado. what do you think? >> immunity is to me by far the most important case. because that's really a life or death matter for jack smith's case in washington about january 6th. and i think trump's position is very weak there. i think there is an outside chance he will lose 9-0 on that. the idea that a president can't be prosecuted for acts that he committed when he was president, it really is as close as possible to saying the president is above the law. and that pretty much is what

his lawyers are claiming in the supreme court. we knew about the justice department policy. just a policy. not a law, that you can't indict a sitting president while he is in office. what trump appear to be saying is you can't indict him when he is out of office either. that can't be right. you can't have one citizen in america who can't be indicted ever for crimes he committed. so i think there he is likely to lose. >> how about colorado? that is an important one for different reasons. though colorado is a blue state. this might catch some fire. it might be a bit of a blueprint. do you think that their

reasoning was sound to say look, even without a criminal conviction, even without a charge of insurrection against him in a criminal court, he has to be off the ballot? >> i think that's a case trump is likely to win in the supreme court. this is a very major step to say that the voters of a state, your opinion doesn't matter. that we are going to decide in advance that you do not have the right to vote for the candidate of your choice. the 14th amendment has this provision that certain federal officers cannot serve if they engaged in insurrection. so there is some basis. but it has never happened before in american history that a presidential candidate has been taken off the ballot. and i think one route that the

supreme court might take in ruling for trump here is saying well, yes, this provision does exist. but, the procedures that colorado followed were insufficient to give trump a chance to refute the charge against him. he wasn't allowed to subpoena witnesses. he wasn't allowed to take depositions. that is a due process argument. and i think the court could go that direction and say yes, in theory, he could be taken off the ballot. but given the way colorado conducted the process, it wasn't good enough. >> well, we will see. it is only a matter of time if you are looking to jack smith, it will be sooner rather than later. if you are looking at donald trump, it will be later, never sooner. nice to see you. >> the timing is everything. >> it is. >> it's great to see you too. >> i'll talk to you soon. thanks for coming on. >> all right, bye bye.

coming up, a very special story that i want to bring you. i got rare access to the troubled prison of rikers island in new york. why? well i was there with actress lala anthony whose foundation is trying to help young inmates prepare for when they get out. that conversation and very special moment is next.

there is a really important story that is related to an issue that is hugely critical and often overlooked. this country has one of the largest prison populations in the entire world. more than 1.2 million people. and there are a lot of debates about why it is so high and what to do about it. and tonight, i want to talk about what goes hand in hand

with that debate. rrehabilitation. when inmates do get out, reentering society can be a challenge. actress lala anthony has been providing a program for mentorship and life coaching for incarcerated men in new york city. it is a prison where more than 6,000 people are held at rikers island. they are required by law to close in 2027 and the negative headlines about it just keep coming. a federal judge held the nyc department of correction in civil contempt just last week after it failed to be transparent about the opening of a new facility for people who set fires. anthony is doing her part to help rehabilitate people on the inside. and i went to rikers island with her to talk to inmates she

is working with. >> reporter: i am outside rikers island. we are in an area that holds young adults specifically. i have never been inside before. so i will take you inside and show you a little of what is going on inside the facility. oftentimes we hear about rikers island for all the wrong reasons. today i will highlight a particular program hoping to help people who are detained inside transition out when they get out. it plans to provide reentry skills. >> seeing the changes happening. seeing when they come out into society, the change individuals they become, how they become assets to our community. >> reporter: those men, age 18 to 21 make up almost 10% of the incarcerated population at rikers. >> i'm just really intrigued as

to what made you begin to do this. >> growing up, having different experiences with people i cared about. always feeling like what can i do? i couldn't even put money on somebody's books. i got in a position where i thought now i can really make a change. all our children are one decision away from being in the wrong crowd. any of them could be here. i would hope someone would treat my own child with the same love and compassion i treat these young men with. >> how important is that space? >> everyone needs something like that. it is like a safe haven. you can be honest, open. >> reporter: young men like darrius lewis. he is charged with first degree robbery. lewis say it is 360 program has changed the way he sees himself and his future.

>> it is not just because i'm in jail. when i first got here, i was ready to lash out. but it was a problem that shows me i don't have to be what everybody is expecting. everybody is expecting bad out of me. everybody expects me to be ruthless, but i don't got to be like that. >> raise your hand if you felt like at some point in your life you were going to end up at jail? >> i tell them this is not your entire life. this is a chapter in your life. what you do in this chapter will determine the rest of your life. so use this time wisely to become a better person. i never make excuses for pep them. they have to have accountability. they have to own up so what they did and pay the price for what they did. but during that understanding. >> reporter: on this day, lala led a discussion group where participants examined life

circumstances that led them to rikers. >> we express what we were going do and make the best out of bad situations. >> were you surprised that there was the buy in from rikers to do a program like this? prior to this, you only hear the negative. it took me being here to see so many people that care so much about the population here. care so much about wanting these young men to change. a lot of people know rikers for notorious reasons. >> it is difficult. i know what i'm capable of doing. i'm glad that the kids in my program have me as a resource to talk to when talking about mental health or struggles. this is jail. there is nothing great about being in jail. and they need outlets to express their frustration and emotions. i can't change the world. i can't change every bad thing

that has ever happened. >> reporter: a monitor appointed by a federal judge highlighted safety concerns. reporting that high levels of violence and fear of people in custody and staff remain a fact of daily living. and just last week, the department of correction was held in civil contempt for failing to tell the monitor about the opening of a restrictive housing unit for inmates accused of setting fires. the new commissioner said while the court found us in contempt, there is an opportunity to personal. and we remain committed to ensure people are safe and secure in our facilities. >> how are you trying to guard against or to inform the public? when the department does not live up to what you want it to

live up to. >> recently named commissioner here. one of the things i pride myself on is transparency. and i think that if there is something that doesn't fall in line with what we should be doing, we will be very transparent about that. >> everybody come down. >> reporter: it is not just about putting in the work, but also celebrating the progress they have made so far. >> reporter: gathering for a special holiday meal, brought in from the outside. >> bless us with this meal and lala and everybody that came through. and just coming together as a family and showing us that family is here. >> i think a lot of times people don't realize all the good work being done here. from this program, we have seen a lot of people transformed. they are excited about the future. they are eager to go to school. they are eager to get a job.

they are eager to do better and i want them to be in a mindset to understand that there is is a future. so you have to plan for that. >> reporter: lewis is already looking toward that future. >> before this program, i didn't know what was in store for me in life. i could never see myself do anything. i saw myself doing nothing at all. >> do you feel like the community that you left and the family that is waiting for you can relate to you as you are now? >> they are going to be surprised. >> really? >> yeah. they will definitely be surprised. because i'm definitely not leaving the same way i came. definitely not at all. >> well you know what? i did not leave there the way i entered in either. you know i was a prosecutor for years. i have written about it extensively. shared a lot about the experience with you here on cnn and beyond. and what struck me about this

program that lala has and the young men who are a part of it was for many, that feeling of community, that feeling of hope, that feeling of wanting to be treated the way they saw themselves was so impactful. it is many of the stories we don't hear. but we hear about wrongfully detained people. that is important to talk about. we have to cover those stories as well. but know that every time we talk about crime in this country, soft on crime, hard on crime, it doesn't end when a sentence actually is handed down. that many respects, the beginning of a much longer process to guard against a number of things including recidivism. and maybe not just pursue justice in a courtroom, but catch it outside as well. you know about 30 people have been through lala anthony's program. and now, michael benia is a student at columbia university. look at that smile. he will join us next. ohoh, he is coveriring it now. don't cocornered it.t. come b back!

before the break, you heard about the incredible work being done by lala anthony's 360 program at rikers island. now i want to introduce you to one of the graduates. his name is michael, but his friends call him rondo. he spent 15.5 months at rikers island. and today, he is a student at columbia university. and rondo joins me now. i'm so happy that you are here. and talking about your story and your triumphs really. but take us to the beginning of your story. how did you land in rikers in the first place? >> yeah. so i got arrested at the early

age of 19. you know, i just turned 19. i was around the wrong people, the wrong decisions. i felt like that was the way i had to live because it was the only thing that i knew. so that led me to be incarcerated in october of 2021. 15.5 months. before i found the program, i had to do things, i had to see things that i wasn't proud of. but in order to survive in that environment, you got to do things you ain't proud of. >> people would know the program is not universal. not everyone is a part of it. is not even like, you were a part of it. talk to me about some of what you experience before that program. most people know rikers as a notoriously dangerous place. at least three people died in one of the eight detention

centers on rikers island. the staff attorney from legal aid society rently said this. there is a disregard for the health and well being of the people living at rikers island. can you explain what your everyday life was like at the jail before you were introduced to the program? >> of course. before i got introduced to them, before i got introduced to pastor tim, it was very difficult. i had to fight. you had to be tough. they only respect violence. you could even try to mind your business. be the guy in the room where you try to read your book. trying to do your time and go home. a lot of people end up going in there for robbery and end up leaving with four plus jail cases. with slashings and things like that. a lot of people don't know that. those are consecutive. so people think that they get over on these type of things. you end upbeating your time. and here you go 12 years for

jail cases. it was very hard. i'm not going to say it was easy. but i did what i had to do to survive. i did things i'm not proud of. but i'm thankful that i was able to get something to positive out of an environment like that. to talk to you guys about my experience there. coming from rikers, it's a blessing. >> well, tell me about what the program held for you. talk about ways to extend grace. ways to think about how best to establish the coping mechanisms that you need in order to be successful. what parts of the program did you feel changed you the most? >> i want to say the way la was able to talk to us. she didn't label us.

she didn't see us as the image people portray. she came with her mom. that gravitated some with me. because who is.comeing to see a bunch of young juvenile kids with these crazy cases with their mom. i was like all right, she obviously is here for a good cause and i wanted to know why. because at the time, i didn't know who lala anthony was. but honestly really speaking, the program, it was very fun. because a lot of us, as males you have to put up this guard and be tough. you have to carry on this weight. we have carried this weight since we were kids. la was very down to earth with us. a lot of us were not expecting that. she has been on tv. we wasn't expecting her to be so, to treat us like she knew

us our whole life. that was one of the things that really gravitated with us. a lot of us thought going to court is a regular thing. she was telling us about how to sit up. make sure you say good morning. things like that. make sure you sleep early. she was telling us things like that. a lot of people, they wouldn't have cared twice to tell you things like that. and she was there for every court date. >> wow. >> her and brit. i love them. they were there every court date. i turned around, they were there. i came home, they were there. bronx supreme court in public. they were there the whole time. >> you know, what you describe, i saw in just the way the love was effort and the compassion. she is the mother of a 16-year- old son. i have 11-year-old boy. and i think of all of you as being my children and sons. i won't tell you my actual age because you really could be my son, thank you very much. but listen, rondo, you have

such a bright future ahead of you. you are at columbia university. i think you have a full ride i hear? you are a student there. >> so a little bit about the columbia thing. so i got accepted to a program columbia offers for recently incarcerated people. you have to accept an application that is a little complicated. i had to zoom with the lady and she said they granted it. so the upcoming, january or february, i will be going there. participating in the gia program. and after that, i will be a full student at columbia and i will be able to take three courses at a time. so you know, just to be able to walk that building is absolutely crazy. there's people that, it is people that who did absolutely wonderful and still didn't get accepted in the school. so walking the hallways is a blessing.

i'm beyond thankful. >> i'm thankful you and i got a chance to talk and i wish you the best of luck. i do. if the smile is any indication of the intellect, you have a bright mind. why are you covering it up? show the teeth. >> you told me about that. i'm sorry. >> all right, rondo, you take care. we will talk again okay? >> you as well. >> thank you. >> bye. man, well next, actress taraji p. henson giving hollywood a message over pay disparity. >> you hear people say you work a lot.

well, taraji p. henson is tired of being underpaid. gayle king asked the movie star in the rumors about her thinking of quitting acting were actually true and she broke down in tears and said this. >> i'm just tired of working so

hard, being gracious at what i do. getting paid a fraction of the cost i'm tired of hearing my sisters say the same thing over and over. i hear people say you work a lot. i have to. the math ain't mating. every time i do something, i break the glass ceiling, when i renegotiate, it's like i never did what i did. >> if i could give her any amount of energy to have her keep going, she is so talented. the star of color purple admitted she almost didn't accept her role due to a pay disparity. can you imagine that? while she didn't share details about the specifics of discrepety? her offer, she said she hadn't received a raise since she starred in the 2018 film proud mary. as a black woman in hollywood, she finds her negotiating just

to watch and match what she made on a previous project. i want to bring in carrie champion. this was such an emotional moment. i think across industries frankly, so many of us saw ourselves in that moment and nodded in affirmation and realization. tell me about why that clip has triggered so many women of color. >> well, i can speak truly for myself. i understood that word tired. that word tired meant not seen. not heard. the fight to be seen, the fight to be heard. underpaid, underappreciated. name all the unders. and that word tired represents so much. visually, i could see her exhaustion. i could see how tired she was from the fight and the struggle to pull out her resume and say i'm also great. it is something i deal with. i'm sure it is something you deal with laura. and that you mentioned at the

top of this, it is so many people across our industries. it is a real thing. we are all tired. >> it's true when you see not just, she is obviously one particular field. but you can extrapolate beyond. we talk equal payday. catching up to white women let alone. accolades. that's a form of currency that gets you to the next level. that praise is not always heaped upon women of color and i would note halle barry was the first and last black woman to win an oscar back in 2002 for monster's ball. that ties in how we are praised with how we are paid. >> you are absolutely accurate about that. that was the first time a black

woman won a leading actress role. she is not getting paid like the highest of the high. there is this sense and i will say with this industry in particular, as taraji mentioned, every time she breaks one glass ceiling, she still has to prove who she is to get the same amount of pay. you mentioned black women's equal payday. 67 cents on the white male counterpart's dollar. i couldn't imagine what these actresses are getting paid as opposed to their counterpart. and nothing can be done about it. unless you have an ally in the movie the help, jessica chastain said she wanted to make sure octavia spencer was paid the same amount of money she was paid. spencer says i have never been paid this amount of money in my

entire life. was paid five times my rate because jessica said so. so we need more allies. and not performative allies but people who don't look like us to ride for us. >> it's an unbelievable thing to think about. you hear about it in the sports industry as well. i wonder if somebody will catch on. it is existing. not anecdotal and systematic. thanks for joining us today. >> thank you. we'll be right back.

well, ryan gosling is bringing the ken-ergy this christmas. he released a christmas version of the movie hit i'm just ken and just in time for the holidays. [ music ] [ singing ] >> ♪ i'm just ken. baby, i'm just ken! ♪ merry christmas barbie. wherever you are. >> well, the new tune also

features a music video. gosling and company laying the track down. gosling is not the only celebrity dropping a christmas hit this season. travis kelce made his singing debut with his brother jason on fairy tale of philadelphia. within hours, the tune made its way up to the number one song on itunes. i wonder if there is a connection. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. . >> wear r the glasses. >> this s week was a bigig one us. > football!l!

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hello and a warm welcome to our viewers in the u.san