hello again and welcome chit's time to get together with some

smart people to break down the week's big stories. today, we're asking on the heels of the colorado supreme court's decision that he engaged in insurrection, should donald trump be kept off the 2024 ballot? then texas has an answer to the mounting crisis at the border. does it go too far? and santa's got his list and we've got ours for best christmas movie, song, and tradition and we'll tell you who's naughty and nice. the panel is here and ready to go so sit back, relax, and let's talk about it. >> up first, forget campaigning, speeches, and commercials. the real action in politics now is inside the courtroom. four colorado justices drawing a big monkey wrench into next year's election and shining a bigger spotlight on the supreme court which made a decision in another trump case friday that will also reshape the

presidential race. a stunning decision by the colorado supreme court. banning trump from the state republican primary ballot for michigan actions on january 6th. >> our country has had enough. we will not take it anymore. >> trump shot back with i am not an insurrectionist. while his campaign appeals the decision, even his opponents criticize the ruling. >> it's unfair. they're abusing power. 100%. >> the colorado court citing the institution's 14th amendment which disqualifies officials who engage in insurrection from holding office again. the argument already conditioned in a handful of cases with legal action pending in other states. >> the supreme court of the united states ought to affirm this decision today. >> and the court will likely have to decide the issue. adding yet another controversial case to its docket, which could

determine trump's legal and political future. >> here with me today, catherine, opinion columnist for the "washington post." ryan, president of the manhattan institute and national review contributing editor. "new york times" contributor author, and kristen anderson. welcome to all of you, especially on this holiday weekend. kristen, should donald trump be barred from the 2024 ballot? >> absolutely not. what happened on january 6th was terrible. and as this plays out in the courts, if donald trump is charged and found guilty of engaging in insurrection, then maybe we can begin having this conversation. but right now, taking donald trump off the ballot is not really going to ultimately change things. at least in colorado. even if it's just for the primary. he's still likely to be the republican nominee. never going to win colorado

anyway. if this spirals out of control and other states begin to do the same, you have taken the decision out of voters' hands. >> but in 2020, he rejected the decision of the voters. i think it's important to remember how we got here. he rejected and has continued to reject the decisions of voters. people said we want joe biden to be president and donald trump said no. he has said it repeatedly. and on january 6th, he attempted to and with the efforts of a bunch of states including michigan -- >> he is facing charges in court. >> i want to follow up with you, jane. are you saying therefore going by the letter of the 14th amendment of the institution that he engaged in insurrection and forget the question of the ballot. what they're really saying is he should be disqualified from being president. >> section three does not apply to presidents. they were thinking about people in congress who were acting as

insurrectionists during the civil war. it's a challenging question because i don't think it applies to him but kind of wish it did because he did reject a democratic election. i think the challenge here is that if you are a strict constitutionalist, you'll say this doesn't apply to him. but if you're me, it's complicated because i think it should. >> justice? >> i think you deserve a lot of credit for being honest and giving us that close reading. my view is that look, there is a dlib rative process that involves due process regarding this insurrection claim. that is impeachment, which has been attempted, and also a criminal prosecution. jack smith is not a wall flower and at two and a half years after january 6th, he did press criminal charges against donald trump. he did not press charges on insurrection. had he done so and been found guilty, he would have been

automatic disqualified from serving as president. >> it's also aiding and abetting insurrection and enemies of the united states. to be clear. >> guess what. that is something that is used routinely in our politics. partisan secretaries of state can say because you, catherine, have aided and abetted enemies of the united states because of something you wrote in a "washington post" column, i think that's a big mistake. >> i want to bring up another issue because the supreme court took a big step friday rejecting special council jack smith's request to jump ahead of the court of appeals and decide quickly whether trump has immunity for any crimes allegedly committed while he was president. this is going to slow down and which is what trump wants, the obstruction trial that jack smith is bringing because it's going to go first with the court of appeals then the supreme court. this question of presidential immunity. in a sense, is it an early indication that the court, the

conservative majority in the court is going to side with trump on the merits of the 14th amendment and immunity? >> this is a tricky one because i think when you're looking at the so-called conservative majority, you have a range of different views. justice gorsuch is a wild card. than if you're looking at justice barrett, they could all go in different directions and you could have democratic appointees not in the conservative block voting with donald trump. >> catherine, it is worth noting that this conservative majority in the court back in 2020 and early '21, really dismissed all of the claims by the president and his supporters to overturn the 2020 election and found against him about turning documents over to congress. so can he count on a friendly hear fring from the conservativ? >> i think he will be friendly than potential alternatives certainly.

particularly democratically appointed. democratic president appointed alternatives. whether or not he can expect a blank check from them i think we just don't know. at this point. particularly on this set of issues. there are a range of issues that could come before the court. i think on the 14th amendment case, i think there's sufficient ambiguity there that they could easily, sub consciously or otherwise rule in his favor. on the other issues about whether he has immunity, i think it's less likely they're going to be as sympathetic to him. particularly given prior rulings by gorsuch himself. >> the other big trump story is the language he's using on the campaign trail, which this week is being compared to hitler. take a look. >> we will root out the communists, markists, fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country.

he says you're not going to be a dictator, are you? i say no, other than day one. they're poisoning the blood of our country. that's what they've done. >> a des moines register poll found among republicans asked about trump's line, 43% said they were more likely to support him because of that. 23% said less likely and 32% said it doesn't matter. kristen, why doesn't trump's base seem to care at all about anything he said? >> because for the most part, either they genuinely agree with the sentiment that he is expressing or they simply believe that if it comes out of his mouth, it's oh, everybody's going to always compare him to dictators and bad people and i don't buy it. sure. that kind of a poll question when you asked people does this make you more or less likely to vote for someone, if you already

like them, you're going to say more likely anyway for a show of support. this is really an interesting breakdown of trump's base in that you have almost half are the type of folks that say yep, he says this thing, but i don't care, i believe it. the other half meanwhile says i don't like it and they vote for him despite it. >> jane? >> i think what we're seeing is the cost fallacy. if you are a part of trump's base, you've probably been a part since 2016. that means eight years of your life. think of where you were eight years ago. that was a while ago. for many people. so i think there's a real sense of why jump off now? you didn't jump off when he was ridiculing gold star veterans. when he was screaming at women. you didn't jump off for january 6th. why would you jump off now? i think it's a real sense of youyou know, we do this for a lot of people. for selects we like. musicians we listen to.

famous people we've decided to randomly become huge fans of. if they say something we like, that's great. if they say something we don't like, we're like, it's fine. >> i hope they feel that way about us. give us a free pass. next, what is going on at our southern border? we've seen the pictures of the thousands of migrants crossing over from mexico, but is it a crisis or not? then perception versus reality. economists say things are going great but most of us don't think so. so who's right? and later, we're letting chesnuts roast on an open fire a as we discuss everyone's favorite song and there's only one right answer.

now to a story as peel p political, legal, and economical, migrants on the southern border waiting to be processed. an unprecedented scene as tens of thousands of migrants overwhelm texas border towns. this week, they encountered almost 10,000 every day. a 30% jump from last month. the influx fueled by what cvp is smugglers peddling disinformation and limited resources in mexico. now, texas republicans taking matters into their own hands. >> senate bill four is now law in texas. >> the governor signing a law that makes it a state crime to enter texas illegally and gives police the authority to arrest.

they can then be ordered by a court to return to mexico. >> biden's inaction has left texas to fend nfor itself. >> the law already facing legal challenges and plenty of backlash from texas democrats. >> it's going to create race. >> he's yes, and no. it's forcing another issue in which democrats and republicans are operating largely based on vibes and all of the solutions being kind of like -- build a wall or why don't they come in legally. why so many people are coming up. why these ports of entry are facing challenges, especially after title 42 and i think that what we're seeing right now are

people making economic and in many cases, decisions, economic decisions and in many cases, decisions based on their own security and we're seeing democrats and republicans fight each other to perform being most concerned about the border. not really doing anything about it. >> i think it's way worse. i think it is subverting the goals a lot of these politicians claim to be supporting. a number of the policy proposals, including in texas, that are ostensibly about curbing immigration or reducing kay chaos on the border would have the opposite effect. if you look at what republican lawmakers are demanding, it's a condition of the ukraine and israel aid package. it includes a number of measures that would reduce pathways to the united states and push more to the coming to the border unannounced. >> do you agree? ultimately, isn't it a question

of we've got a border? >> that is my view. if you're looking at legal immigration and when you can have a political consensus, it is when you establish you can have an orderly system that is lawful. in the yunited states right now we have a problem. there was a moment of ayos. over the last eight years, venezuela has lost 30% of its population. two years, cuba, 4%. it's a violent, awful place. why this sudden search in migration? because if people come to the united states, claim asylum. right now, they're getting court dates in the 2030s. >> again, this is why -- >> 2030.

that means you can enter the country. be here with work authorization for seven years not going through the legal channels. that is a massive magnet, inducement and if you want to have orderly immigration, you need to do something about that. >> that is exactly what the biden administration has set up. this is a lawful pathway where people get screened and sponsorship in the united states and it's been shown to reduce the people who come to the border. the number of venezuelas who come to the border. this is what republicans are trying to get rid of. >> look at the number of people coming from south asia, africa. >> then create similar law and path ways for them. >> humanitarian parole for the entire world. that is not going to be a

process that works. it has to be congress moving in a way -- >> are you hearing republicans propose that? >> no. >> wow. this is good. we've also got texas now, which is very much taking ryan's point of view in saying what the federal government is doing isn't working. we're the ones most affected by and we're going to pass our own laws. what do you think of that, kristen? >> i can understand why texas authorities would say if the federal government is not going to do anything about this, we have to take matters into their own hands. i know there was a lot of conti controversy around the laws when they pursued their own policies. things like due process. might be undocumented. at the same time, i am very sympathetic to leaders looking at things like the southern border. they feel a sense of responsibility to do something about it.

>> jthey said no. they said it's not a state issue. it's a federal issue. >> and also we've seen texas attempt this type of thing before. even earlier this year. "the wall street journal" talks about operation lone star on which they have spent billions and only managed to secure about 1% of the number of undocumented migrants that the border patrol has. so texas is likely going to wind up spending billions of dollars. this is going to go to court and it's not, probably not going to do anything. this is performance. this is performance of politics. politics isn't supposed to be performtive. >> from all of the folks that are very opposed to enforcement measures, actually doing the sorts of things that would be, they're uncomfortable, right? law enforcement being more tough on this. what's the answer? because right now, clearly, the biden administration policy has taken things in the opposite

direction. normally, you do see surges in migrants at different times of year. >> humanitarian pathways for everyone. >> wait. you asked a question. >> yes, more legal, lawful, orderly pathways where we screen people in advance. i would also give a lot more resources to the asylum system so they can actually screen people and to immigration judges so they don't have the seven year wait. and yet for some reason, congress has been dragging its feet on doing those things, too. we need to be able to screen people at the border so that we can separate the legitimate ones from those who are not eligible for asylum and we don't do it. >> i agree with that. i agree, you need more asylum judges and resources but at the same time, humanitarian parole is not meant to be lawless, executive authority to do everything without any bounds and that is how the biden administration has used it and it's incredibly discomforting. let's see how the american public feels about it. >> republicans are trying to

take away the executive authority due to class based parole period by the way. which is how we got our afghan allies evacuated into the united states. our vietnamese allies into the united states. jews from the ussr. hungarians in after the 1956 revolution. this is a critical national security tool that republicans are trying to rip away entirely. >> jaggen beg was passed by congress and i think congress can be trusted and ought to be trusted under our system of government to do the right thing. >> all right. congress can't solve the border problem or any problem for that matter. >> it's just going to be the same stupid clown car. >> up next, a lot of fighting with very little law making. we dig into just how little congress got done e this year r ask k can they g get their a ac togegether.

you look like a smurf here. >> a clean shot to the kidneys and i turned back and there was kevin. >> it's been a year of bickering sometimes approaching near brawls on the house floor. and now there's solid evidence all that fighting has kept lawmakers from their main job, which is making law. this year, the republican-led house passed only 28 bills.

little bar on the far right there. catherine, what is the matter which this congress and specifically this house? >> i think the problem is that the modern republican party doesn't really stand for anything. there is no core set of policy objectives they are really trying to achieve. i think i've seen student council candidates that have a deeper and more thoughtful platform than these guys and you have you know the matt gaetz' of the world running around trying to cause chaos and get on tv. it's really hard to negotiate with people who don't have serious policy objectives. >> kristen, are the republicans in the house nihilists? >> this takes two to tango. this is what happens when you get ready divided government in really polarized times. if the house had been on vacation. if they had been taking no votes, i would be more

sympathetic to this argument. but they've been voting on quite a lot. it just goes into either chuck schumer's woodchiper, the senate, where dreams go to die, or it's never going to have any realistic chance of passing joe biden's desk. so with divided government comes gridlock. so for sure, i will not say that the republican caucus is say a picture of unity. if it feels like the votes have been just for speaker of the house. >> i was going to say. >> but this is not just. >> you had republicans controlling the house. democrats controlling the senate just like now and in the first session, they passed 72 bills. house did. that were signed into law. >> i don't deny that is very, very, very little law making. but at the same time, i don't place blame solely on one party.

>> so, jane, will house republicans get their act together? >> no. why would they? what's the impetus? if you're going to get them to do something, you need to provide them a reason for doing so and they have no reason to do so. i think we've seen again and again. i spoke with tim alberta from the tlatlantic about his new bo and he talks a lot about how members of congress, specifically house republicans, constantly talk about how we know what time it is. this is a 1776 moment. and we've seen again and again that house republicans, their performance of politics is the point. i spoke with representative don bacon this year. a republican from nebraska. who talked about how his colleagues, he talk to them all the time about how they don't

know what they're voting on but they know what gets a lot of response online. that's not to say they're not sometimes making good decisions. i think the performance of politics is what matters now. >> it's exactly why you're seeing so many people are seniority decide they're out. if you did come to washington with any hope of making change, you are not looking at the current environment on the thil and thinking yes. >> i'm struck by something inherently wrong with the republicans in the house right now that it is all clicks. is that the problem? >> i think there's a bad dynamic but let's not forget the fact that between 2020 and 2022, you had a very active congress that was spending trillions of dollars. it is now routine to have deficits that are 5, 6, 7% of gdp. it's not crazy to me that the country and congress would want to take a breather from that

level of hyper activity and say let's take stock, pushback, establish guardrails and slow things down. >> the conservative view which is if they're doing nothing, great. >> catherine made a good point. it's true the republican party is not animated by some vision of transforming the federal government. maybe it should but it's not. it's motivated by resistance to the progressive left right now. you saw a lot of republicans winning in biden-held seats. they did not win for better or worse with some positive reformist agenda for the country, but they did win saying we've had enough. we want to slow it down. what we've seen is a surge in inflation. in spending that wasn't always especially accountable or wise and we want to turn down the temperature. i don't think they're doing a great job but i think there's a lot of activity. it's kind of like a snake swallowing a rabbit. it's got to take time to digest. >> i agree deficits have been a

major issue and both parties are very guilty ignoring the long-term consequences of deficits, however, you're suggesting the only thing lawmakers could do would be to spend money. and in fact, there are things they could do to address deficits for example. both on the tax side and spending side. on the entitlement side which neither party wants to touch. not to mention there are plenty of nonfiscal measures. regulatory issues. there's plenty of other stuff. >> the interesting thing is with all of their failure to get anything done, one thing that house republicans and democrats in the senate did was to put things off until next year. i want to put stuff up on the screen. here's the to do list for early 2024. january 19th. pass the first spending bill to avoid a government shutdown. february second, pass the second spending bill to avoid a shutdown and sometime in those first two months, approve more

aid for israel and ukraine along with new border policies. catherine, has bad as 2023 was, is january of 2024 going to be worse? >> i think so. they have precious little time to get the first traunch of spending through before we have a partial government shutdown. there's going to be a manic effort to get that bill through and they've done very little on it as you point out. there's also the gridlock over the spending bill for ukraine and israel and potentially these very contentious border issues which house republicans, excuse me, senate republicans have demanding things that are ext extreme that the white house is going to fight. we haven't even gotten them involved. >> well, it's time to lighten the mood a little. especially with santa getting ready to take off. up next, get your list ready. we're talking christmas favorites from movies to songs so yuletide treats.

in keeping with the spirit of the season, we've decided to change things up and find out christmas favorites. first, best christmas movie. catherine? >> it's a wonderful life. bank runs. a wonderful message. no main is a failure who has friends. >> kristen? best movie. >> a muppet family christmas. this is a bit under rated one in the category but the most ambitious crossover of our time. the sesame street gang and fraggle rock show up. all jim henson. >> jane? >> blazing saddles. a christmas tradition for decades. >> is there a christmas scene in that movie? >> no. but there is a scene in which you get to say what in the wide, wide world of sports is going on

here? and it's fun every time. >> ryan? >> the 2019 adaptation of little women is one of the best movies of automatll time. i recommend it highly to everyone. >> interesting choices but in the words of the grinch, you're all wrong. the best christmas movie is love actually and here's why. ♪ do you think the muppets can keep up with that? i don't think so. let's discuss the right song. catherine? >> i'd like to see your re-enactment of that little routine. white christmas. love that baritone and like all

the best christmas songs, written by a jew. >> true. kristen? >> oh holy night. specifically the version by n sync. >> god rest ye merry gentlemen. i love a song that has a lot of rhyme scheme to it. livens it up. >> rihan? >> you know how much i love snoopy. music to my ears. >> i'm also a big fan so here's a clip of that song. ♪ christmas time is here happiness and cheer ♪ again, very worthy nominees but again, all wrong. the best christmas song is the christmas song specifically as performed by nat king cole and here it is.

♪ chestnuts roasting on an open fire jack frost nipping at your nose ♪ i truly believe that christmas does not begin until the first time you hear that song on the radio. finally, everyone's got their own tradition or favorite thing to eat, so catherine, what is the best yuletide treat? >> i love driving around to the blocks where everyone's gone nuts with their decorations and they have millions and millions of lights out. >> kristen? >> grandma a's molasses cookies. they're delicious. >> opening one present on christmas eve then begging to open more presents and being told no. >> i have to say. that is -- i like that. i really do like that. >> my birthday sadly is shortly after christmas and i love nothing more than cracking open a big old bucket of kfc to celebrate my sad, sad birthday.

>> well, i'm not going to say any of you are wrong there but i'm not a dove. so my favorite christmas tradition is my wife and the beautiful way she decorates our house and i hope i get brownie points for this this weekend. up next, experts say, and the numbers show the ecokma economy great shapape but mostst americ say y it s stinks. so whoho's rigight? wewe'll find o out after t this.

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get exclusive offers on select new volvo models. contact your volvo retailer to learn more. experts say the economy is doing great. inflation has cooled from last

year, hovering just above 3% and americans keep buying stuff, spending a record $38 billion between black friday and cyber monday this year. but in a recent cnn poll, 71% of americans think the economy is in bad shape right now with just 3% saying it's very good. here are some reasons why. a gallon of orange juice costing 11 bucks in some places and rents remain too damn high after a major spike last year. catherine, as someone who writes about economic did for the times does now for the "washington post," you're our expert here. are you bullish or bearish on the economy for 2024? >> on paper, the u.s. economy actually looks pretty great. not only the inflation numbers that you mentioned. inflation has been coming down, obviously. still not where we want it to be, but it's doing much better. employment has been doing better than anyone expected. many people expected, professional forecasters

expected we would have had a recession by now but we have escaped that fortunate so far. in fact, not only are the numbers better than people expected a few months ago, they're even better on many dimensions that had been forecast before the pandemic began. if you look at the congressional budget offices expectations for where gdp would be right now, we have blown those numbers away. >> so why do people feel so bad about it? >> i don't think people are making it up that they feel lousy about the economy. we have had once in a generation level of inflation to date and we are still dealing with really high price levels. i think part of the problem is that americans are expecting unfortunately wrongly, that prices will start to go back down. in fact, what the fed is hoping for is that price growth will slow but continue growing. so i think there's a lot of frustration about how much price growth we've had to date. we've also seen a lot of consumes spend down their savings.

so maybe people have gotten raises and now, wages are outpacing price growth but they think their wage growth is something they've earned but price growth is something that's been inflicted upon them. >> kristen, bull or bear on the economy? >> i'm a bear if only because i don't look at 2024 and see a year of great stability both domestically and geopolitically headed our way. and so it would not surprise me if events intervene. whether it is a rise in global conflict. these are the sorts of things that just make me very concerned in general that don't seem to set the stage for a great economic moment. >> you look at the polls. i saw poll recently two-thirds of americans of the people polled said that biden's doing a bad job on the economy. how do you think the economy plays in the '24 election, particularly if it's biden and trump? >> right now, it's a huge advantage to republicans. the fact of the matter is that

even though trump had an advantage, voters didn't want trump because they thought he was crazy. they wanted to put the hands of the country in someone who was more stable like joe biden. that dynamic has changed now. the economy has risen in people's level of concern. i think if people still think it's bad regardless of what the economists say, i think it's going to be a problem for biden's re-election. >> next, hot takes and predictions. that's right after the break.

i'm a little anxious, i'm a little excited. i'm gonna be emotional, she's gonna be emotional, but it's gonna be so worth it. i love that i can give back to one of our customers. i hope you enjoy these amazing gifts. oh my goodness. oh, you guys. i know you like wrestling, so we got you some vip tickets. you have made an impact. so have you. for you guys to be out here doing something like this, it restores a lot of faith in humanity. welcome back.

it's time for our panel's special takes on what's happening or predictions of what we should be looking out for so kristen, hit me with your best shot. >> well, we know lots of things are getting more expensive. especially housing. especially college tuition. and so housing on college campuses is a combination of those two things fueled by these unlimited spigot of money often available in the form of student loans. colleges have begun increasing the luxury amenities in many of these dorms. "the wall street journal" out with this analysis of things like granite countertops and other fancy stuff. i imagine consumer pressure is going to have to put backlash against this. >> did you not have granite countertops? >> i did not. and i was lucky, i was in a new dorm on the campus of the university of florida, but it was not luxury accommodations. >> it's not so much a prediction but a personal promise. i refuse to care about any viral tiktok, tweet, or skeet. if you are a moused, a person

with two incomes and no kids, that's great. i don't care. i am tired of the take artist. taking a video from tiktok and writing six response articles about t and calling it content. i'm out. i'm done. no more. >> briefly. almost sounds like a new year's resolution. are you saying that the next time next year there's a great video everybody's talking about on tiktok, you're going to say i'm not looking? >> i will not be looking unless it has to do with sports because sports are always content. >> republicans in congress aren't unit bid much, but they are united by their deep concerns about what's happening in higher education and i think there's going to be a big push not just on hiking taxes on enormous endowments, but also looking at administrator student ratios. harvard has as many add hin

straiter as it does students. >> catherine, it's christmas time. couldn't tell from this conversation. you have something to get us into the holiday spirit. >> yes. i wanted to put in a plug for a recent video released by the first lady featuring dorrans dance, a fabulous tap group, doing a tap rendition of the nutcracker set to an arrangement by billy strahan and duke ellington. there has been some controversy about it from some of your former colleagues included but a number of right wing media personalities because they think it's too woke and anti american. the origin nutcracker was russian. i think it's lovely and charming and everyone should go watch it. >> i find it amazing. so some of the comments that people hate america or christmas, how can you object to

that? tap dancing in the white house. >> how can people get so triggered by tap dancing? >> and jazz. you say duke ellington. a uniquely american form of expression. >> absolutely. i think tap dancing is among the most american art forms there is. >> so they're really unpatriotic. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> well, i've watched the whole thing after knowing that you were going to bring it up today and it is terrific. thank you all for being here and sharing our pre christmas spirit. even though you were wrong about the song and movie, but you did pretty well. and thank you for spending part of your day with us. merry christmas. happy holidays to all of you and we'll see you right back here next week. hello, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london and welcome. in the next 60 minuteswe