>> breaking news, and it is big. a week after colorado did it, maine becomes the second biggest state to bar donald trump from republican primary ballot. john berman here in for anderson and the decision to make secretary of state could not be any planar.

quoting now, he is not qualified to hold the office of the president under section three of the 14th amendment, period. she joins us momentarily. this comes on the day in which the former president was temporarily back on colorado's ballot pending supreme court decision. cnn's katelyn polantz joins us now with this breaking news out of maine. what can you tell us about this decision, kaitlan? >> john, there is a lot of meat towards secretary of state china bellow wrote from maine today in her ruling. one, january six was an insurrection. she made that finding, two, donald trump engaged in that insurrection. three, that means he is not qualified to be on the primary ballot in maine. four, she found that it is her responsibility to make these decisions. so, putting that all together, this came because of voters had asked her to look at this, to make a ruling under the way that the state lays out. she can as the secretary of state to determine whether people are eligible for the ballot there in maine, she

looked at the evidence. some of that evidence was much of what the house january six committee found. she looks at statements by donald trump. she said, it's even kind of a close call on whether trump engaged in this insurrection. it would've been easy if he tried, already in criminal trial either acquitted or found guilty. but, she did come down on the side of saying, yes indeed, trump does fit this profile and i believe as secretary of state that he cannot be on the ballot. here is what she wrote specifically. i am mindful of that no secretary of state has ever deprived a presidential candidate, of ballot access, based on section three of the 14th amendment, that's the instruction clause. i am also mindful of how i heard no presidential candidate has ever before engaged in an insurrection. the oath i swore to uphold a constitution

comes first above all. the ruling is on hold for a little bit but this is a very clear ruling from secretary of state coming down on donald trump as an instruction saying he cannot be 44 in the primary. >> how the trump campaign responded to this? >> the trump campaign did put out quite a lengthy statement through a spokesperson already. they're saying a couple of things. they're attacking her as a leftist saying she is an elected democrat, that should weigh into what people believe about this finding from shenna bellows. they're also saying that this sort of thing is partisan election interference. it should not be the sort of thing that states are even allowed to do to remove donald trump from the presidential ballot. and, they say they're going to object in state court under the law. they are allowed to do that. she does say she's going to wait to see the next courts of ruling here, and the way the law works in maine is that they have to come to some determinations on this pretty quickly in the state court system. of course, that's colorado ruling similar to this from the supreme court in colorado. the highest court to colorado is before the u.s. supreme court, and so, there is a lot at play right now, a lot of things could happen in the coming days and weeks. john.

>> katelyn polantz, stick around. we're going to come back to you shortly. joining us now is the person in the middle of this all, the main secretary of state, shenna bellows, secretary thank you so much for being with us. the 14th amendment section three says no person should be a senator representative in congress elector of president and the vice president or hold any office he goes on to say if they should have engaged in insurrection. in your mind, why does that mean donald trump cannot be on the main primary ballot? >> the oath i swore to uphold the constitution comes first and foremost. the analysis of the constitution and the facts lead before me at the hearing that i was obligated to hold under main law, brought me to this decision. >> you have decided that donald trump engaged in insurrection. >> the weight the evidence

brought forward under main law in the chat section 3:36 brought made it hell clear that mr. trump was aware of the tinder he laid, in a multi month effort to challenge the legitacy of the 2020 election. then, in an unprecedented and tragic series of events, chose to light to match. > you make that decision even though he has not been charged or convicted with insurrection. >> at the hearing, we reviewed the evidence, we reviewed the

fox and the law, and certainly the question of whether mr. trump engaged in the insurrection is a closer one then weather january 6th 2021 was an insurrection in which i also -- but, the question of whether mr. trump was found guilty, the applicability of section three of the 14th amendment does not turn on whether an office speaker has been convicted of a crime. we looked at precedents and civil war, we look at the law, we look at the facts, we look at what was brought forward in this hearing that is specific to maine law. >> why is this your decision to make? >> so, the constitution gives the states time place and manner, abilities to have different election clause. we have different voting rights, different access laws. that's why in our neighboring state of new hampshire, for example, there are more than a dozen democratic candidates on the presidential ballot -- on the presidential ballot. there are two democratic candidates on the ballot and

lets a dozen on the republican primary ballot. so, it is not uncommon for states that have different access requirements. we do however have to uphold the constitution and the rule of law equally. we do not set the qualifications, but under maine law, the secretary of state is tasked with assessing those qualifications when percent that what a challenge for many registered main voter. in this case, we have two former republican state senators. -- former democratic state senator, ethan sterling, as well as two individuals miss -- who brought challenges under main law to the ballot access. we qualified mr. trump for the ballot, they challenge, that were required to uphold a hearing. then we looked at the weight of evidence, it's became clear that january 6th was an attack not only on the capital of government officials, but also an attack on the rule of law. it was an insurrection. and, the u.s. constitution does not tolerate an assault on our governments, on the foundations of our governments. that's maine election law and the constitution required and obligated me to act. >> this is state until a higher courts in maine ways in. do you want the u.s. supreme court to get involved here? what question, if so specifically, do you want the supreme court, the u.s. supreme court to answer?

>> so, it is important for people to understand that, yes, the next step is that the challenger or the candidates may appeal in superior court, and then it goes to the main -- which is our supreme courts and then could be appealed to the u.s. supreme court. >> again, do you want the u. s. supreme court to get involved? >> so, i think it is really important that all of us have a role to play. i certainly do think the united states supreme court is the ultimate interpreter of section three to 14th amendments. so, yes, i think ideally they will rule and they haven't yet but certainly should they rule, we will abide by their ruling. >> i'm asking, because i was talking to michigan secretary of state joscelyn benson last night who wants the supreme court to get involved here in the sense of answering some of these questions, which is what is an insurrection?

the section three of the 14th amendment mean that somebody can be kept off the ballot here? face the big questions and answer them, do you want the supreme court to do that? >> certainly, yes. >> as we said, the trump campaign has responded to your decision saying in part, quote, we are witnessing in realtime the attempted theft of an election, that this of the american voter, democrats and blue states are recklessly this is again from the trump campaign and unconstitutional spending t the rights s of amern voters by removing donald trump 's name from the ballot, and quote. how do you respond to this allegation that this is somehow disenfranchising maine voters? >> so, again, i am so mindful and they said this in my decision that it is unprecedented, no press secretary of state has ever deprive the presidential candidate of our access based on section three of the 14th amendment.

but, no presidential candidate has ever engagement insurrection, and then disqualified under section three of the 14th amendment. >> you didn't make that clear in your ruling which i have rights here. again, final question, because you know and you say this, you realize that everybody is looking at this, everybody has questions about it and there are people saying, they should be left up to one person in this case being you. how do you respond to that? >> -- uphold the constitution and i and duty that to maine law. under maine law, when i presented with the facts, i cannot permit an 18 year old on the ballot, i cannot permits a non citizen to be on the ballot. my role as fourth in the maine election law is to interpret qualifications and -- indeed, my office, i made a determination that chris christie did not qualify because of a failure to secure signatures.

the superior court of how my decision last week. in that particular matter. so, these are decisions that are part of my obligations and part of my duty. that is what i am compelled to do by the constitution of law. >> madam secretary, we appreciate your time, we know this was a big day for you and the very difficult few weeks, thank you. >> thank you. >> keelan poloz is back with us along with cnn senior legal analyst elie honig also cnn political commentator and former utah republican member of congress -- i will start with you. it was an interesting's discussion, an interesting take on the main secretary of state here. the 14th amendment section three says in plain text that if you shall have engaged in insurrection, you cannot be in office. she takes that to mean that if she determined that donald trump engage an insurrection, he cannot be on the maine primary ballot, is that simple? >> it's not that simple. clearly section three of the 14th amendment says that engage in instruction, you're out, we

all have that. but, complete part and where we are going to see this play out in the court is, who gets to decide and by what process? now, it's important to know and in the ruling the secretary of state we just heard from says she is basically following the same legal reasoning as the colorado supreme court did last week. she says in her ruling that if this gets struck down in colorado, we are out of luck to. so, she's basing it on the same legal argument. let me sort of lay out the arguments. by the way, it is worth saying, we are all theorizing here. we are legally unknown territory. the argument against is first of all. the 14th amendment section five says, congress, has the authority to pass laws to implement this. they did. they passed the criminal law. the argument is, that means congress, not to state. perhaps, this is the argument that the main secretary of state in colorado made, the states can do it to. if that is true, then, section two question two is were the processes, were these hearings fair?

did they comported due process? i think is a question there with regards to what maine did. because if you look at the hearing, and you details this in the ruling, they heard from one -- a law professor. she based a ruling on a lot of documents, but also youtube clips, news reports, things that would never cast the bar in a normal court. she's not a lawyer, by the, way it's a smartly written decision, fully consult with lawyers, but this is unelected, she was chosen by the state legislature. -- >> she's elected by the state. >> -- but not democratically elected. that's the way it seven pin maine. this hearing, it doesn't have to be a criminal trial. we do not have to have all the protections. but, i think the argument you will hear from opponents is, one, not up to the states do this. this is why we have all different decisions from all different states. two, the procedures were not up to snuff. >> near love, congresswoman, what do you think the trump campaign will do it this, does this add fuel to their argument? >> i think it actually does. i think it's a bad idea. i always say that whenever we err on the side of giving

people as many options as possible, it's better. remember, trump did not win the last election. he lost. and, we need to trust the american people to do what they believe is right. if he is on the ballot and does not necessarily mean he is going to win. as a matter of fact, there's a very good chance he will lose. i, it will backfire, i think it is something that will backfire where the president will just be emboldened, and he will give credibility, they'll give credibility to the argument that trump supporters are making that the system is rigged against him. -- >> this is a political -- >> it would be rigged against him at this point -- >> i don't want to say, you're making a compelling case here, but it's essentially a political arguments. the constitution says what it says. if the constitution says that

somebody who engage an insurrection cannot be in office, does it matter whether or not it is good politics? >> i believe that he engaged with the presidents engaged in insurrection. what the rules are in between, who defines what is where it gets a little blurry. it's one of the things i had to deal with in washington, when it comes to the policies. okay, what did congressman so and so mean by this? what does this mean? the judges drops to interpret the constitution. but, there are still a lot of unanswered questions which we just talked about and i think that i have a strong feeling that the trump team will appeal to the supreme court. they want the supreme court to get involved. >> all right, kaitlan, walk us to what the steps are. we heard a little bit of that from the main secretary of state. >> right, so what happens next

is that trump's team says they're going to appeal to the state court. so, the first court to go to the trial level court for the mains pure court. that court has 20 days to decide what to do with this, whether they uphold what shenna bellows decided, or they strike it down. then after that, there is another mechanism, a very short timeline for the highest court in maine to play into this as well and see what they want to do, it doesn't appeal filed with them. at anytime, people can go to the federal court system, trump's team, the other side, depending on who is winning and losing in the courts and maine. so, there is a lot of things that are taking place, but, there is a structure in maine to figure this out, essentially by the end of january. at least in their court system, but, that supreme court case with colorado is sitting there now where the colorado and gop told the supreme court just this morning, john, just in

their briefs this morning and last night that the colorado supreme court made a decision to take trump off the ballot. it's going to pick up steam now, other states are going to be doing the same thing. it's going to create chaos. it's going to create confusion amongst voters, it's going to hurt the elections. supreme court of united states please get involved and figure out if these states can do things like this, who in the states can make these decisions, can courts, can secretaries of states, all of that is sitting before the u.s. supreme court and so we are in really a jump ball essentially of who is going to determine what to do first, will the u. s. supreme court make la crosse the land before primary ballots go out, and one of the things about the calendar is that primaries do not start with iowa and then with super tuesday in march for colorado and maine. there are deadlines for ballots to be printed and set out well before that to overseas borders and -- voters. we are running up into a calendar that somebody's got to do something. >> ballots are printed well before the elections actually happen.

that in the way the certain deadline. elie honig, we keep talking with the u.s. supreme court weighing in. one of the big questions is weighing in on what? do you expect the supreme court to say, donald trump engaged in or denying gagen insurrection? >> no. i do think the supreme court is going to take this case. i think tonight's ruling makes it even more likely because now as kaitlan just showed, we have a split. the majority of state secretary of state until courts have rejected this. but, snow we have to, that have done this. i think the supreme court is going to take the case. they're not going to get into whether he engaged in insurrection, they're going to take on two questions. one, is this solely for congress or can the states do this as we saw in colorado and maine? if the states can do, it did

they have fared due process. were the hearings the quasi-trials where they enough to process? and, was it not an advance? part of the process is you have to know the processes in advance or they just sort of make it up after the fact and apply it retroactively. so, i do think this all but ensures the supreme court will take it. and, i think the ruling is going to be based on due process. >> all right, elie honig, mia love, katelyn polantz, and thank you again. again, so many unanswered questions here. big big questions. we'll wait and see what the supreme court does. next, nikki haley's cleanup attempt today and a question she got last night and which was answered frankly 163 years ago, what caused the civil war, and lead the remarkable story of a woman's murder of her daughter who was just freed from prison today in the horrifying abuse she suffered.

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>> at the end of the day, the just saw main secretary of state remove donald trump from the ballot under the 14th amendment, his opponent former south carolina governor nikki haley was trying to clean up remarks she made about the war, which inspired that amendment. she was talking today about her answer last night to a basic question about the civil war. it's one that most fifth graders have no trouble answering. it's a question many applicants for citizenship are asked. 74 in fact, name one problem that led to the civil war. the first of three acceptable answers, slavery. it is not like this is some new idea. in 1860, south carolina lawmakers said so themselves. it is about slavery. they said so in writing repeatedly in their declaration of succession in it. they complain about, quote, an increasing hostility on the part of non slave holding

states of the institution of slavery. the document uses one form of the word slavery one way or another 18 times. last night, governor healey did not mention it once, until prompted. today, she blew right past saying that if you grew up in the south, it's a given that the civil war was about slavery. of course, but to her, she said it was about freedom which is true but only in the biggest and brightest land descent. maybe that is intentional,, but if serving up such word flavored comfort food is her aim it's worth asking, why? why is what south carolina succession saying riding 163 years a go so much talk about now? -- michael eric dyson, first though, eva mckend. >> of course the civil war was about slavery. we know that. that is unquestioned, always the case. >> nikki haley playing cleanup

today after this exchange with a voter during a new hampshire town hall wednesday night. >> what was the cause of the united states civil war? >> well do not come with an easy question. i think the cause of the civil war was basically how government was going to run the freedoms in what people could and could not do. >> after not mentioning slavery in her official response, healy acknowledging in interviews, and campaign appearances this civil war was about slavery. >> you grew up in the south, it's a given it's about slavery. to me, it was about the freedom. it is bigger than slavery. that was such a stain on our history. but, what do you take from it going forward? >> the former south carolina governor also claiming without evidence. the questioner was a democratic plant. the audience member who asked the question declined to share his full name or party affiliation when asked by reporters.

>> it was definitely a democrat plant. that's why i said what does it mean to you? if you noticed, he did not answer anything. >> the episode sparking swift blow back from haley's primary rivals. >> i just think this shows that this is not a candidate that is ready for primetime. >> vivek ramaswamy saying, when you try to be everything to everyone, you are nothing to anyone. president joe biden also weighing in. he says, clearly, it was about slavery. haley's handling of the question also drawing fresh attention to her complicated public posture towards the confederacy. >> i say that as a southern governor who turned the confederate flag off the state house grounds [applause] proud american. >> -- file found in 2010, haley said this about the confederate flag.

>> this is not something that was courageous, this is something that is a tradition that people feel proud of. >> but, in 2015, a shooting at a historically black church in charleston spurred then governor healey to call for the flag removal from state house grounds. >> we heard about the true honor of heritage and tradition. we heard about the true pain that many had felt. the confederate fike is coming off the grounds of the south carolina state house. [applause] stumble by haley comes as she sadly gain momentum in the gop primary, with a recent new hampshire poll showing her securely in second place behind former president donald trump, but, well ahead of desantis and chris christie. >> so, some of her supporters really and swayed by this even still enthusiastic about the campaign. but, there was one painted question that she got from the voter this evening, in which in his words, he suggested that she needed to redeem herself from this debacle and categorically reject that she

would be trump's running mate. she neglected to do so. she did not categorically rejected, she instead leaned on a familiar -- that she gives time and time again when she says that she is not in this contest to play for second place. so, the questions remain this evening, john. >> even we can't, thank you so much for being with us. joining us now, michael eric dyson, distinguished professor of -- diaspora studies at -- university, also co-op of unequal story of america. professor, ambassador haley is now saying that of course the civil war was about slavery. why is it the do you think should into that in the first place? >> thank you for having me. first of, all she knew full well it was about slavery. it was a pitch tone-deaf to the truth, but one pitch towards a maga crowd and the far-right swing that does not want to acknowledge that slavery was the driving force of the civil war and when they do they talk about it in terms of states rights. the states right to do what? to own flesh and human beings.

so, this is her attempt to avoid the manifest truth and you play to the alley so to speak while appearing to be informed about the multifarious constituent of elements that land in enslavement. as opposed to dealing with the central one that the attempt of american people to own other human beings of african descent, to deploy them without pain or compensation for their work is what slavery was about and what the civil war was about and drove it to the house that we saw that in american society. >> so, is part of her cleanup today she said that to me it was about freedom. it is bigger than slavery. that was to stand in our history. what you take from a going forward? that's the end quote there. what do you think that says? what was she saying there? >> well, she is trying to mangled the truth. she's trying to merge it and

infused with her own kind of conservative right-wing theme about the absolute ability to do what you want as a demarcation of freedom. no, african american people in this country and slaved africans who were here fighting against the worst form of dehumanization that one has seen in centuries in this country. and, before it even got filed, it is the fact that this continual inability of brothers and sisters beyond african communities to acknowledge that this is the truth. it is not freedom from what, freedom to do what, freedom with the ability to do what? it had to do with enslavement, it had to do what color, it had to do with the inability of americans to acknowledge that black people were fully human. the three fifth clause. of course, it was about counting, but it also was about the dehumanization of black people. so, this is the inability again

of nikki haley to say straightforwardly that it is about slavery, america is in its history has enslaved human beings and that is a nasty and nefarious part of our particular history. the right wink wants to remake that historical trajectory and narrative. this is why we have governors like desantis who were trying to determine what happens in ap courses, trying to ban books and therefore plan black bodies and history. when you have decided that it is obsessed or a segment of, it obsessed with eviscerating that history, there is no doubt that attempts like this to remake history and the image of the far-right wing that refuses to acknowledge the essentiality of slavery is what we get into society. >> so, you do not buy this was a gaffe last night? you just forgot to mention? >> of course not. nikki haley is a very smart woman. she knew what she was doing, and by avoiding saying that it

was about enslavement, she was playing to her base or at least one of them that she hopes to secure in the absence of donald trump being physically there. we know that donald trump is the shadow candidate looming over the entire horizon of the gop. but, she wanted to buy some of that, give me a vow alex, and try to play up to the right wing in a way that took some of the thunder from donald trump without explicitly doing so. she is too smart to know that in the history of the civil that slavery was the driving force. of course, she knew that, this is her attempt to have her cake and eat it too, to not acknowledge a slave meant is to play to the right-wing and then to be forced to next day to talk about it looks like she's just being politically correct. they are forcing her to do it. she does not really believe it. so, she was able to really shuttle that line and in the

ultimate sense to have your cake and eat it too. >> professor, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> now, a story you only see here about how far the former president's 2020 campaign when to overturn the election using bogus ballots from fixed electors. cnn has obtained recordings revealing the last staged efforts to get some of those ballots to washington for then vice president mike pence you the general. six marshall cohen got the scoop joins us now. marshall, what are these new reportings and emails telling us about the fake elector scheme? >> john, we have known bits and pieces of the story before, but this is the first time we're getting the full picture. comes from canned chest for who in many ways was the architect of the fake electors plot back in 2020. we have obtained recordings of his recent interview with michigan investigators and hundreds of emails that he also turned over. they reveal that last-minute scramble on the eve of january six to get those fix or if it gets to washington d. c..

take a listen to chest burrow here describing what happened when trump campaign officials realized the day before that the ballots from michigan wisconsin were stuck in the mail. >> the trump campaign is freaked out that roman reported that the michigan votes are still -- doesn't look like they're going to get to pence in time. so, the campaign was alarmed and was chartering, didn't have to chartered jet but commercial. this is, like yes, this is a high level -- to get the michigan and wisconsin votes. they had to enlist a u.s. senator to try and exploit it to get it to pence in time. >> remember, john, they needed to get those ballots to the floor of the house because they wanted to make pence throw out

joe biden's real electors and replace them with trump's fake electors. in the end, the campaign did not end up chartering a jet, staffers book some last-minute tickets on commercial flights. they ferried the ballots to d. c. on january 5th. once they got to d. c., there was a series of handoffs and careers, and even included some help from senator ron johnson's office. the ballots did eventually reach the capitol in time but mike pence's team today did not want them. john, he refused to go along with their plan. >> how does all of this martial factor into special counsel jack smith's criminal case against trump? >> well, this whole incident here, at this episode is very ugly reference in jack smith's indictment against trump. sources tell cnn that some of the people who were involved, including the staffers who are on those flights, they have spoken to smith teams but it is honestly not clear how many of the two details about this last minute scramble are going to factor into trump's trial which as you know is scheduled for march. >> so, what did chesebro say

about the people he worked with on the trump campaign? >> he was pretty upset, he ran into the michigan prosecutors and basically thinks he got burned. it is true also as he pointed out that some trump campaign lawyers did tell the january six committee that they basically wash their hands of the fake electors plot. but, look, the emails that we obtained show that at least some of them were involved in these 11 our discussions about how to get the ballots to pence. take a listen. here is chest burrow telling michigan prosecutors that basically he was thrown under the bus. >> to have the three top campaign lawyers, interviews congress, claim they pulled out of this on october 11th. iran often did it with giuliani when in fact they were day-by-day coordinating the efforts of more than a dozen people in the gop and with the trump campaign. for them, basically, they say they had nothing to do with it and it's because me and giuliani that's what -- i could avoid all this.

so, it's been a real lesson and not working with people that you do not know and not sure you can trust because he really went south on me. >> john, he says he learned the hard way and that's probably why he is now cooperating with state prosecutors in michigan wisconsin and other places where they tried to pull this off. >> good scoop from a hardworking reporter, marshall cohen, thank you so much. just ahead, we remember the latest hostage in gaza confirmed killed, 70 year old mother and grandmother judy weinstein.

>> sad news tonight from the kibbutz in southern israel. more than a woman taken from there on october 7th and thought to be alive was in fact killed that day. julie weinstein was a seven year old citizen at the u.s. israel and canada, mother of four, grandmother of seven. she was abducted with her husband got her die who was declared killed last week. both bodies are still being held by hamas. president biden said in a statement, quote, i will never forget with their daughter and the family members of other

americans held hostage in gaza have shared with me. they've been living througfor weeks. no family should have to endorse such an r deal and that reaffirmed the pledge we have made to all families of those still held hostage. we will not stop working to bring them home. wind seems deaf means there are no remaining female americans held by hamas. six american men are still believed to be held captive. one is hersh goldberg, he lost his left hand and part of the arm will him and his fellow -- were taking shelter from hamas. his mother as well as father have been outspoken advocates for the hostages including on this broadcast. rachel goldberg joins us once again. rachel, your son, hersh, has been held for hostage for 83 days. the last time you're on the program, we've seen many hostages released. you are feeling hopeful unhappy for the families who had their loved ones home. but, today we learned that judy weinstein, the last israeli american woman believed to be held by hamas was murdered.

how are you feeling tonight? >> we are feeling really terrible for her family. she just found out also in the last handful of days of her father was also murdered. so, we went from thinking that we had -- hostages to suddenly a few hours ago understanding that we now have six remaining american hostages. you know, john, people are also forgetting that on october 7th, 31 americans were murdered. the massacre that took place. and then 12 hostages were taken, american hostages. and, now we only have six left for their, as you can see today, 83. and, we are all very concerned. the american families are very concerned. what are we going to do about securing the release of these

six american civilians? >> i understand you and your husband, john, were recently invited with some other families of hostages to a meeting with these really cabinet. what did they tell you and what is your message to them? >> with the war cabinet has made it clear that there are two objectives what they're working on. one is to diminish hamas's capacity to have the military ability to perform more october 7th which were, was a day that was filled with unbearable and indescribable atrocities. the other problem is to free hostages. but, for a hostage families, we are just in anguish that nobody can really imagine and we are very concerned, and we also know that during, while this is all taking place tha t there is unbelievable suffering for many many innocent civilians in gaza as well. so, there are many people suffering during this time. >> do you believe that bringing the hostages home is a priority if not the priority for the israeli government? >> look, i certainly hope so.

i certainly hope it is a priority. i do not know that, i know it's not the only priority because i know that as any country wants to protect its citizens and what happens, we have had a cease fire up until october 7th when this happened. this atrocity happens that has made the country filled with trauma and fear. but, my focus is really on the fact that we have the six american civilians who are there and i really want america to help get those americans out, get as many americans out as

you can. and, then, president biden has been a really wonderful advocate for, he is saying that they are all humans, they're all there, we have to get them all out. of course, we feel that's. all of us feel that. but, i also feel very concerned that the number keeps dwindling of americans who are alive. we know they do not have a lot of time. we know some of them are wounded and we need to step on it. it is 83 days. >> lastly, your son, her, was supposed to be traveling to india now on a flight to asia called your husband while they were flying to india last nigh t, i want to play part of that conversation. >> sure. [inaudible] [speaking in a non-english language] [speaking in a non-english language] [speaking in a non-english language]

[speaking in a non-english language] [speaking in a non-english language] >> how much was hersh looking forward to this trip? what does it say about him? >> you know that hirsch has been planning this trip since he was in first grade in mrs. carleton's class in virginia where she lit the fire under him to fall in love with geography and with different cultures. so, from first grade, he has had a huge map that he has been planning all these years to take this trip that he's been looking forward to.

so, yesterday we went to the airport with 50 of our friends and family and we gave stickers to all the people going on that flight to india, and we said, when you get where you are going to put up these stickers of hersh, so that eventually when he gets to go, god willing on this trip, he will get to places that people have already put his sticker up in these places all over asia. so, we are hopeful and optimistic. >> what a lovely tribute. how wonderful that would be. rachel goldberg, thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> thank you, john for having me, happy new year. >> still ahead, the woman who was sentenced to a decade in prison in 2016 and for her role in killing her abusive mother, her story and new freedom, next.

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and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> blanchard is a free woman, released from prison on patrol today. her story gained national attention after being sentenced to ten years for aiding in the murder of her abusive mother, dee dee blanchard, was believed to have had a rare psychological disorder that played a role in her daughter's abuse. gypsy rose blanchard has an upcoming book on her story. more now from mark -- >> gypsy rose blanchard, a little girl whose mother, dee dee blanchard, was known as a loving caring single parents of a disabled child. >> we're moving to mayberry. >> i remember my mom had gave

me this little glass house and she said, one day this will be real. now it finally is. [applause] >> gypsy rose blanchard and her mother had just moved into a habitat home in missouri. out of their house was devastated thousand five by hurricane katrina. it appeared to be a feel-good story for this child, whose mother said she had brain damage, leukemia, asthma, muscular dystrophy, and wasn't able to walk. but, it was all a lie. dee dee blanchard had fabricated it all. gypsy rose blanchard was victimized by her mother's apparent munchausen syndrome by proxy, in which a guardian causes or exaggerate illnesses. gypsy rose blanchard never went past second grade. >> it just proves that happy endings are not just in fairytales, they are real and true in real life also. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> the elaborate scheme that dee dee blanchard conducted to

got sympathy. at this charity function. ♪ ♪ ♪ [applause] thank you. you are the reason i was born. [applause] >> it was gypsy rose blanchard -- >> but then, in 2015, gypsy rose blanchard and a long distance boyfriend were charged with murdering dee dee blanchard. gypsy told nicholas godejohn about the lifetime of abuse she endured. they came up with a plan to kill her mother. he nicholas godejohn was accused of stabbing her to death in the missouri home. police reportedly found out about the killing from this violent post on a facebook page, that gypsy rose blanchard shared with the mother. >> do you swear and affirm the testimony to be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth? >> yes, sir. >> would you state your name for the record please. >> gypsy rose blanchard. >> how old are you?

>> i am turning 25. >> gypsies worker was found guilty and serving life sentence. [inaudible] prosecutors felt deep-seated to be held accountable. because of the abuse she face, they agreed to a plea bargain. >> -- missouri department of corrections. >> while in prison, gypsy rose blanchard talked with dr. phil about how her mother lied to doctors, and how her mother handled her medical appointments. >> she told me i could not speak during a doctor's appointment. sit in the wheelchair, play with your barbie dolls. and, let me talk and do not interrupt. my mother told the doctors that i was mentally incompetent. >> gypsy rose blanchard also said her mother tried to convince her how helpless she was. >> she would always use the medical term for everything that was wrong that i had, which is small head that's my brain did not develop right and i will never mature passed a six year olds level.

>> after she was sentenced to ten years in prison, gypsy was told this. >> you'll have to do 85% of her sentence before she is eligible for parole. >> today, that's 85% is now over. gypsy rose blanchard got married while behind bars to a louisiana schoolteacher, early ship that reportedly began has pen piles. she is now free to be with him, to live as normal life as possible, while she and we remember to think she was once forced to say like this about her new house. >> it is beautiful! it is happy! it is full of love. >> gary tuchman, cnn, new york. >> joining us now is criminology professor and former fbi special agent breonna fox. brianna, what do you make of the facts that gypsy rose blanchard was released early after pleading guilty to second degree murder in her mother's death? >> well, thanks for having me, john. that shows that she obviously was very willing to take responsibility for this and that is what parole board look for when they're taking these types of the terminations.

she also wanted to say her abuse and trauma she experience, essentially the people knew why she do what she did. >> considering, the abuse she can -- experience, what do you make of the fact she was sentenced to ten years? >> well, it is extraordinary, especially considering that her boyfriend was sentenced to life in prison. it shows that the prosecutors really understood that the nature of her story, what she went through, and that essentially a jury would have given her at least a reduced sentence or something that's really would have been considerate with what she had gone through as a child. >> so, gary tuchman mentioned that dee dee blanchard was expected of having munchausen syndrome by proxy. how difficult is it to detect and diagnosed that condition? >> this is one of the most difficult things to detect. for a variety of reasons. one, the medical field is set

up that when somebody is brought into the hospital and complaining of different ailments, symptoms, pain, that is not something they can just ignore. even when they are going through different tests and it's not coming back the way they expect, you have to keep running it down. even when gypsy rose's mother was told for some very installments she claims gypsy rose blanchard had, with the tests coming back, she'd go to a different doctor and kept going to different doctors until she heard what you wanted to hear. at that point, it's very difficult for prosecutors to say you are actually fakin g this or you're putting your daughter through all this trauma and abuse. >> had this abuse been exposed

earlier, what type of punishment which you have faced if any? >> well, gypsy rose blanchard probably wouldn't have engage in what she had done, but her mother on that hand probably would've tried to child abuse. gypsy rose blanchard may have been trying to live with her father, or other family members or even taken in by the states. but, considering that gypsy rose blanchard is one of the few people that actually improved in health and her well as after serving almost a decade in prison, that's really shows what she went through and how destructive it was as a child. >> again, back to the condition that her mother allegedly had, and the other responsibility fall on the doctors who treated gypsy for conditions she ultimately did not have? >> i think that doctors are in a tough situation. they want to trust clients and they want to make sure that they are not essentially telling somebody, no, and to leave. but, when doctors are turning down medications or turning down treatments repeatedly, that is usually a sign they don't believe what's going on instead of just turning a blind eye. i think that more people should make sure they're saying something. reporting this to authorities, saying something other family members, people in gypsy rose blanchard's family had been aware of accusations of what her mother had been doing, but essentially none of this came

forward to in time. >> brianna fox, thank you so much for being with us. we will be right back.