cnn's back-to-back presidential republican town halls begin one hour from now

live in des moines. ron desantis is up first, followed by nikki haley. stay with us. "ac 360" begins now. tonight on "360," a live report from perry, iowa, scene of the latest school mass shooting. what authorities are saying about how it unfolded, which included their discovery of a makeshift bomb at the scene. that and what a student says tonight about what she went through. also tonight, a new batch of unsealed documents in the jeffrey epstein sex trafficking scandal. what's in them and who. and later, house democrats say they have the former president's number, and knits the millions. what's in the report of how much foreign government money went into trump's pockets during the trump presidency. good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight in iowa, but not for the reason you would expect, not for presidential politics. take a look. these are pictures tonight from perry, iowa, northwest of des moines. a vigil, one of two after a day that began with what is already the country's second school shooting of 2024. this first in virginia took no

lives. this one did. it happened on the campus shared by perry's middle and high schools. police say the shooter was a student at perry high. before killing himself, he shot six people, one of whom died, a sixth grader, a child killed by an older child. not for the first time, and never it seems for the last. cnn's veronica is at the scene tonight. i know you just got on the scene. what are you learning? >> anderson, just a devastating start to this new year for this community here in iowa. you can feel the grief, even as you come in and see all of the individuals at the vigil. tonight this community mourning the loss of a sixth grader. five other people were injured in this shooting. four students and one pack cult member, police say. one of those injured are critically injured. all of them, however, are expected to survive. this school shooting happened before school began. it was right around 7:30 when students from all ages, students from all grades were gathered

for a breakfast club when shots first rang out. we spoke to some students at a vigil who were there at school, including one of them who was inside the cafeteria. >> at first, like the whole cafeteria went silent. and then more shots like continued. and everything just went into chaos. and i just saw like the principal start running. and like all my friends and i just got out of there. >> when i was on my way to go to school, my friends sent more texts that there were gunshots, and everybody was running and crying out the school. >> anderson, this community is small. the entire school district has only about 1800 students. so everyone knows everyone, including a woman that cnn spoke to at the vigil who says she knows the victim. she heard about a child in her neighborhood who had been missing. she went knocking on that family's door and learned that

their child was the one who was killed. she said this individual was just the sweetest child, one that you would want your kids to be friends with. police say the gunman died from a self-inflicted gunshot. the 17-year-old was found with a pump action shotgun and a handgun. authorities also say the 17-year-old shooter was posting on social media at the time around the shooting. they also found in another part of the school an improvised explosive device, though authorities did render it safe. as far as a motive, the investigation continues, but the grieving here in this small community has just begun. anderson? >> veronica, i appreciate it. veronica miracle. earlier tonight i spoke with one of the students who managed to get safely away from the gunfire. her name is rachel karis. she is a senior at perry high. rachel, i understand you were in the band room when you heard shots. can you tell me what happened? >> basically, we were finishing

up jazz band, and my band teacher was walking us through one of our last songs, and then he was talking to us about it, and then right when he was about to finish, we heard four gunshots down the hall from us. we didn't know which way, though. >> were they very loud? >> yeah. like -- at first i thought it was a chip bag, but that's way too loud. and then the smell started to linger, and i don't even know how to describe that. it just smelled like burning. yeah. and then when there was another shot that was let out, like really soon after that, our band teacher looked at us, and he just goes "run." and none of us hesitated.

we all got up and ran. >> at that point, you realized it was shooting? >> we didn't know what it was. we just wanted to get out. because it was super loud. >> which way did you run? >> so our auditorium is actually hooked up to the high school, which you would have to have a hallway for that. and the hallway that we have for that leads to the outside. and that's the hallway that we took. >> when you ran, what did you do then? did you stay in the school grounds? did you just -- where did you go? >> anywhere away from the school. we just kept going. and thankfully for that, we have our armory and our rec center and elementary fairly close. at least walking distance from the close.

so a bunch of kids went to one of those places. >> and i understand you called your mom in all the chaos. what did you say to her? >> i basically said that there were gunshots, or i think there were gunshots, but i'm okay. i'm out of the school. and i was with -- and i named off some of my other friends that i was with. and then she just was like what -- she was freaking out. probably more than i was. and then she was like you need to get home now. and i was well, my keys are in the school. i can't really good back there. and she is like, yeah, don't do that. not really planning to. but then my sister ended up rushing over to me and finding me. >> do you know any of the people who were injured? >> i know about one of the staff members, yeah.

>> looking back now, what's -- how do you feel? to have gone through this, it's obviously terrifying. >> um, it doesn't feel real. like this is like one of those things where you see on tv and you're like that's never going to ling er its way towards my community. but it does happen and it's really real. >> had you ever thought that this could happen at your school? >> no. i was -- like we used to have -- we had one series of bomb threats when i was in middle school, but that was taken care of really early on. and nothing happened. >> rachel, i'm so glad you are okay and your friends, and i wish you the best. thank you. >> thank you. >> perspective now, if that's even possible from cnn senior law enforcement analyst and

former deputy fbi director andrew mccabe. so andrew, does anything stand out to you about the shooting and law enforcement at this stage? >> so, anderson, what we know from the press -- two press conferences today, the response seems to be entirely in line with what you would expect and hope for from your local first responders. it took them about seven minutes or so to respond after the initial receipt of the 911 call. and in a rural town of, you know, lightly populated, spread out over a big area, i think that's a pretty reasonable response time. the problem is whether it's seven minutes or one minute, you're always after the shooter. you are coming in after the carnage has already begun. so the odds for law enforcement, as we've discussed many times to resolve these situations peacefully with a quick response is just not really -- that's not really possible. >> the shooter was apparently armed with a pump action

shotgun, 17-year-old student, a small caliber handgun as well. and there also was an improvised explosive device found at the scene. that's unusual. i mean, obviously, that occurred in columbine as well. >> yeah. i think the guns are fairly typical, what you would expect that a student, a child would be able to get access to in the home. we don't know where the guns came from. it's presumably he didn't purchase them himself. he is only 17 years old. he wouldn't be able to do that. these are probably firearms that he had access to in the home. but we'll find out as the investigation goes on. the use of the -- we have other shooters, the san bernardino, the numerous ids they left. but here what it really connects to for me is the possibility of

columbine as an inspiration for this actor. we know that the shooting at columbine in 1999 still to this day is a very, very powerful motivator to particularly the young people who are inclined to act out violently. they study it online. they read books about it. they make trips to columbine to see the school where it happened. so the use of the ied to me feels a little bit like an echo of columbine. there has been some reporting that the song that he used in the background on his tiktok posting just before the shooting is also a song that was used by eric harris, one of the columbine shooters on his personal website, again in 1999. so there may be some distinct connections here. the investigation might uncover more connections. >> it seems on the face of it just crazy that people would take inspiration from what

happened to columbine. >> it is. it's crazy. it's destructive. but, you know, this is what we have. we have young people who are clearly in trouble, who are struggling, probably in many different ways, and they seek and find community and inspiration in all of the strange ways that young people do that. that's going to happen. the difference here, what makes this different than every other place on earth is that those same troubled, disturbed young people can also get readily, easy access to lethal firearms. that's what makes this different. that's why it's the combination of those two things that puts us in the situation we're in, where it's four days into the new year and we had two school shootings. buckle in. it's going to be a listening year. >> how is the determining a motive in terms of trying to prevent future tragedies like

this. does it matter so much for each investigation? >> i think it does. because every time we can get a better insight into what was motivating one of these actors has the potential of rendering additional signals or things not even so much law enforcement, but the community and school administrators, coaches and parents, friends can look for. and if they see these red flags, they see these indicators, quite possibly say something, bring this person to the attention of adults or authorities. that's -- that's a long shot. but it's really the best we have right now. so it's definitely worth pursuing knowledge of what those motivations are so we with look for them in other people. >> andrew mccabe, thanks very much. next, more breaking news. what we're learning from the latest batch of unsealed documents connected to the late sex offender jeffrey epstein, his accomplice ghislaine

maxwell, their victims and big name associates and friends. and later, the former president and foreign money. a new report showing how many millions of dollars foreign governments showereded on his properties while he was in the white house.

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no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. more breaking news. a second batch of documents was just unsealed related to late sex offender jeffrey epstein. epstein, as you know died by suicide in 2019 before he could face trial in federal court. kara scannell has been reading threw the new documents, joins us now. what stands out? anything? >> we have over 300 pages of accidents, and our fantastic team has been going through them. again, it's more depositions. and one deposition that has stood out is the lead detective in palm beach, who had conducted one of the earliest investigations of epstein in the mid 2000s. through his testimony, he says he interviewed 30 or 33 girls who said that they were

recruited by epstein and had given massages to him. as we learned from ghislaine maxwell's criminal trial, massages was a code for something that began as a massage, but then turned sexual. it kind of gives us a sense. >> the numbers. it's insane. >> truly astonishing. he said the majority of the girls he interviewed were minors. that just shows you how big this was. and this comes on top of yesterday's batch of documents. and those, again, were more depositions, but they also while they had no blockbusters, they gave us a sense of the elite circle that epstein traveled in. >> reporter: politicians, a prince, and other prominent men, their identities all contained in new jeffrey epstein documents unveiled wednesday. it's the first batch of sealed court filings related to the late sex trafficker following a judge's order last month, with more documents soon to be made public. eps epstein's circle of associates is well-known, but the records provide the public more context

about the exclusive world he traveled in while facing accusations of misconduct. >> i would say that there's not much new in this, but i do think that it's important that the public have access to the documents, because it isn't just about epstein. >> reporter: the pages name prominent figures, including prince andrew, former presidents bill clinton and donald trump, and stem from a civil defamation lawsuit brought in 2015 against epstein's former girlfriend ghislaine maxwell. included are depositions, including one taken in 2016 from johanna sjoberg, who worked for epstein. she said in the document that she and epstein had a conversation, and, quote, he said one time that clinton likes them young, referring to girls. when asked if clinton was a friend of epstein's, she said she understood epstein had, quote, dealings with clinton. clinton has not been accused of any crimes or wrongdoing related to epstein, and has denied any kind of criminal activity. a spokesperson for clinton on

wednesday reiterated that clinton knew nothing of epstein's crimes. sjoberg also recalled a time she was with epstein on one of his planes and the pilot said he needed to land in atlantic city. jeffrey said great. we'll call up trump and we'll go to -- i don't recall the name of the casino, but we'll go to the casino. she says in the deposition she never gave a massage to trump. in 2002, trump called epstein a terrific guy, but he later said he threw epstein out of his mar-a-lago club. trump is not accused of any wrongdoing. when asked for a statement, the trump cam i pain responded by attacking the media. also excerpts of a deposition of the woman behind the lawsuit, virgin islands roberts giuffre, who reached an out of court settlement in a sexual abuse lawsuit against prince andrew. alleging maxwell directed her to have sex with people, including prince andrew and former governor bill richardson who died last year.

but prince andrew and richardson have denied wrongdoing. a spokesperson for richardson denied he had ever met giuffre. >> i think for the survivors and the attorneys who have been working so hard to bring this to light, i do think it gives them a sense of at least some satisfaction and some justice that we're keeping the conversation going. >> reporter: giuffre's attorney says the disclosure furthers the important goal of shutting down sex trafficking wherever it exists, and holding more to account. the unsealing of this document gets closer to the goal. attorneys for ghislaine maxwell who is serving a 20-year sentence said in a stock market statement on wednesday she has consistently maintained her statements. what's next with the documents? >> we are still at the beginning stages of the documents. in total we've got about 59 documents that we've seen. there are expected to be dozens and dozens more of them that will continue to roll out over the next several days.

so we'll continue to look through them. but this was a long litigation before it ultimately settled. and so there were a lot of depositions, a lot of discovery, a lot of subpoenas. so we're just going to have to keep combing through this to see what there is. >> and are some people's names being held back, or is everybody's name going to be -- >> there is just a small subset of people whose names are held back, and some of those are victims who were minors at the time, and their stories have never been public. their names have never been public, unlike some of the others who have spoken out publicly, who spoke at the trial. they have kept their identities secret, and the judge said she was going to keep that so right now that's really the main set of people whose identities we won't know. but otherwise, the judge said that everyone else is going to be unsealed because the public interest outweighs their privacy. >> ckara scannell, thanks very much. the president kept making money while in office and a new report on which foreign gogovernments s spent millllion dollars atat those proroperties. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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the former president has made a habit of accusing the current one of taking money from foreign governments, notably china. he has provided new evidence. on the other hand, house republicans brought some receipts. they released a report documenting millions of dollars that foreign governments spent at the former president's properties while he was in office. the presidency, which you'll remember began with serious questions about just that

subject. welcome in cnn's jessica schneider. >> these papers are just some of the many documents i've signed turning over complete and total control to my sons. >> reporter: at the start of donald trump's presidency, he promised to hand over control of his companies to his two sons, but he refused to divest his assets, and he retained ownership. now a report released by house democrats reveals how trump and his business raked in at least $7.8 million from foreign governments during his time in the white house. >> he not only lined his own pockets, but he repeatedly sold out the american public interest in favor of the interests of these foreign governments. >> reporter: congressman jamie raskin led the investigation, finding that the chinese government and its state-controlled entities spent more than $5.5 million to stay at trump properties, including trump tower in new york city, and the trump international hotels in washington, d.c. and las vegas. other countries handing over hundreds of thousands to trump's

businesses saudi arabia, qatar, kuwait and india. >> but defying the constitution, he basically fulfilled the founders' worst fears, which is that the president, in order to line his own pockets, would sell out the american interest in favor of particular foreign governments looking for policy favors from the president. and that's exactly what happened. >> reporter: the emoluments clause forbids the president from accepting any present emolument of any kind from any king, prince, or foreign state. for years democrats have alleged that foreign governments were buying favor with the trump administration. >> i believe this is not only wrong and immoral, but illegal. >> mr. president! >> reporter: the new report points to trump declining to impose sanctions on the industrial and industrial bank of china for allegedly helping north korea evade u.s. sanctions after the state owned bank leased property at trump tower.

and the trump administration's $100 billion arms deal with saudi arabia in may 2017 around the same time the country spent about $600,000 at trump-owned properties. trump's team denies any wrongdoing. they point to the trump organization donating about $450,000 in estimated profits from foreign governments to the u.s. treasury, and trump himself refusing to accept a paycheck during his time as president. >> it's a lot of money i would have given away. like i give away my salary. >> eric trump responding there is no president in united states history who is tougher on china than donald trump, a president who introduced billions and billions of dollars of tariffs on their goods and services. meanwhile, republicans continued to make the so far unproven allegations that president biden has benefitted from his son's business dealings in china and ukraine. but in response to report about trump's businesses, republican house oversight chair james comer, who is leading the investigation into the bidens

saying it's beyond parity that democrats continue their obsession with former president trump. former president trump has legitimate businesses, but the bidens do not. >> what if anything can congressional democrats do about this? >> well, anderson, they're really releasing this report for two reasons at this point. first, they want people to be aware of trump's business entanglements with foreign governments going into 2024. secondly, congressman raskin told me that he is going to work on legislation that would mandate reporting to congress for any president or official who does take foreign payments, and then find a way for congress to approve or deny those payments to really have a check in place to enforce the emoluments clause. but anderson, obviously when president trump was in office, there was no action taken by congress to actually enforce that clause. they're hoping they could in the future. >> overseas now, appreciate it. the latest in the wake of the deadliest single attack in iran since the 1979 revolution.

last night a u.s. official said that it bore the hallmarks of isis. now isis has claimed responsibility, saying it was done by two suicide bombers. the explosions at a memorial service marking the fourth anniversary of the u.s. trike skilling qasem soleimani claimed at least 84 lives and wounded nearly 300 more. cnn's nic robertson joins us now from tel aviv. so before isis claimed responsibility for yesterday's bombings, iran had blamed israel, promised a harsh response. is it clear that the claim by isis is going toe impact those rising tensions. >> it seems to be clear isis' claim fairly matches the event's discrepancy numbers is what the iranians say, they say one of the bombs was remote controlled. isis says they were both suicide bombers, both the explosions. but it has isis' mo, the killing of large numbers of civilians, the targeting of iran, and

indeed going after qasem soleimani's memorial, because they believe soleimani was a figure who was trying to shut down the islamic state for iran. so a number of reasons to believe that. but the iranian leadership has still said well, okay, maybe it was isis. we believe it was isis. but israel was behind it, which of course is nonsense. but it should lead to at least some easing of tensions. and i spoke today with the former head of military intelligence, the idf who very familiar with the battlefield themselves, very familiar with dealing with complex issues in the region. and i asked him about these rising tensions. he said they weren't crossing a threshold at the moment, that he didn't think that there would be a massive response from iran, but -- these were his words. >> israel took their gloves off. you can see it in gaza. you can see it in beirut. you can see it with the journal

in damascus, even though nobody took responsibility. but the iranians blame israel. i think the iranians will be very, very careful even if after provocation they will suffer a loss. but starting a war with the u.s. or even with israel, they are not there yet. >> and i think that's an important part of israel's assessment for those targeted strikes that israel is responsible for. spoke about israel taking its gloves off. this is a calculated move. they believe within that threshold of a safety margin. >> what are authorities saying tonight about the potential for any kind of spread of the conflict, especially along the northern border with lebanon? >> yeah, there is a real concern that there is a potential for it to spread along there. and of course that isis strike

in tehran is still going to have an impact on tehran's calculus in a way. and it has all these events have risen tensions. and there is always that risk that a combination of events leads to a misreading of actions by one side or another. and israel is still concerned about that the defense minister today and the prime minister both spoke with president biden's envoy who was here today and told him that the time is running out to get a solution along the northern border, particularly because it's affecting the economy of israel. 80,000 people displaced. the israelis say they want a diplomatic solution. but time is running out. >> nic robertson, thanks very much. in half an hour, ron desantis followed by nikki haley. we'll take questions from iowa voters at back-to-back town halls. we'll have a preview coming up. what's on the line for the candididates 11 days from the caucuses, coming up next..

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you're looking at a live shot from grandview university in des moines, iowa. back-to-back town halls there tonight. the first with ron desantis and kaitlan collins. the second with former u.n. ambassador south carolina governor nikki haley and moderator erin burnett begins an hour after that. only 11 days until the iowa caucuses. we expect the candidates will discuss a wide variety of topics, including their pitches to voters wary of a campaign by the former president. joining us now are chief national affairs correspondent jeff zeleny. so ambassador haley is taking some flak for comments she made about iowa and new hampshire. what's the latest on that as she prepares? >> anderson, governor nikki haley stepped into this

long-running controversy and competition between iowa and new hampshire, of course the states that for generations have led the presidential voting. and yes, there is competition between the iowa caucuses and the new hampshire primary. usually these candidates sort of keep -- stay in their lanes when they're in the various states campaigning. but take a listen to what governor haley said last night campaigning in new hampshire. >> i trust every single one of you. you know how to do this. you know iowa starts it. you know that you correct it. you know that you continue to go -- >> so the applause and laughter you heard in the audience in new hampshire probably will be the same here tonight where we expect haley to likely clean up that answer. of course, iowa and new hampshire don't always echo their responses. often they choose different results. sometimes iowa winners are projected in new hampshire and vice versa. clearly, this has become a point where her rivals have seized

upon it. florida governor ron desantis used this as an example to call her a phony. even the iowa governor, kim reynolds, who has endorsed desantis, she lashed out at haley, said she doesn't understand iowans. look, the reason this matter, anderson, she is trying to win over support and voters here in iowa, and taking a bit of a dig at them last night, probably not the smartest idea. we'll see if she cleans it up here tonight when she takes the stage in about a half hour. >> what about ron desantis? is he running out of time to make his case to voters? >> anderson, there is no doubt that there is no candidate who started at such a high level in this race with the exception of donald trump. and he is closing really with all of his hopes on iowa. the iowa caucuses often end some presidential hopes. he hopes he is not in that list. he hopes that iowa is the beginning of his effort. but he is closing this campaign with far less money than he started with, and he is closing it with really a considerable pressure to make a strong

showing here in iowa. of course, he would like to win. but a strong second place showing for desantis would show he is still in this race. he is really campaigning aggressively, taking every question from voters, from media. he'll be doing the town hall here as well. so clearly all is on the line here for desantis in iowa. >> you mentioned donald trump. how is the former president looming over these town halls tonight? >> in so many ways, anderson. i mean, you cannot go to an event without a voter asking one of these candidates why don't you say more about donald trump? why don't you say this about donald trump? so he is looming very large in this republican race. he'll be back in the state tomorrow campaigning and talking to trump advisers. one of the things that they say they're more worried about complacency among his supporters than they are actually about individual rivals. so this race really is starting to intensify in the new year, 11 days before the iowa caucuses. yes, donald trump is the front-runner, there is no doubt. but there is has also not been a single vote cast yet. so this is a new beginning for

many undecided voter, and those questions start tonight in just about 20 minutes. >> jeff zeleny, thanks very much. join alyssa farah griffin, scott jennings, and van jones. how big a problem can nikki haley's comments actually be? >> listen, she is actually not wrong. as the saying goes, iowa picks corn and new hampshire picks presidents. it hasn't been since 2000 that the republican candidate who won iowa went on to win with george w. bush. so in that regard she is correct. you don't want to insult your voters ahead of it. but she has always been playing for number two in iowa. she is playing for number one in new hampshire. and tonight i would argue the 11 days ahead is make or break for ron desantis. there is not a path for him if he doesn't overtomorrow expectations in iowa. >> what does that mean overperform expectations? >> i would say it's hard to stay. he has to beat nikki haley. even so, the money, the resources and the momentum is

not there in new hampshire. he is consistently third, if not fourth place behind chris christie. unless he beats donald trump in iowa, i expect the desantis campaign could be winding down soon. >> no. i don't think he is going to beat donald trump. i don't think anybody is going the beat donald trump. i mean, what's interesting is he is looming large over this, but nobody will address him. he is the person no one will address because he is so far ahead, and they don't want to antagonize his voters. but i think desantis has to have a strong second to keep going. but let me just say one thing on the haley comment. back in 2004, howard dean was buzzing along in the iowa caucuses and a tape surfaced of him saying that the iowa caucuses were a waste of time. and that was the beginning of the end of howard dean. iowans do not, as jeff mentioned, like to see their caucuses denigrated. there is this battle between iowa and new hampshire. so what she said was a great line for january 16th, but she

just got ahead of herself there. and i think it actually is not helpful. >> the strategic interplay among the campaigns and how they're setting expectations and how they're interfacing with each other is kind of fascinating. in iowa, trump is not addressing any of these candidates. in fact, i think their ad traffic right now is him contrasting his economic record against joe biden. but if you go over to new hampshire, to alyssa's point, they're now attacking nikki haley on the air, on the issue of immigration. they think that issue is going to put a lid on the surge that she has been seeing in new hampshire. and i don't think the trump people really agree that she has gotten this close as we've seen her in some of the public polls. but obviously, they're not taking any chances. and on desantis, you know, 12 is the number for trump. anything north of 12 is a historic victory, right? you get below that, you get down into the single digits. for trump, that meant you underperformed expectations. if desantis is in second place, you can try to play the

resurrection narrative and keep it going. >> i think the point that they're worried about complacency has some reality to it when you're being told over and over again that this guy has a commanding lead, there is less of a sense of urgency about coming out. >> the desantis people believe their supporters are proven caucusgoers, far more likely to show up. and that the trump people are depending on a higher turnout of less frequent or new voters. the desantis people see some hope in that. >> it takes more commitment to show up at a caucus and sit there and go through all that stuff as showing up to vote. i think nikki haley, you got to peak at the right time, and she is doing that. desantis peaked way too early, and he has been sinking ever since. she is peaking at the right time. but she is making these gaffes a the wrong time. she keeps saying dumb stuff, just when people are trying to fall in love with her. i think that if she could just manage to just stay where she is and keep rising, i've been very, very surprised at how strongly she's coming across for

democrats. i'm hearing a lot of democrats saying positive things about nikki haley in ways they don't say positive things about other republicans. she could be a real threat to a biden if you can get past donald trump, but she has to get her foot out of their mouth. >> making gaffes just at a time she is rising. >> yeah. >> gaffes always come when you start getting a lot of attention. that's part of the test of running for president. there is more pressure the better you do. she is breaking late. and so she is getting the attention late. and she has stumbled a bit, several times now. we'll see how she bears up under it. >> i hope iowans are forgiving or her, but if not she still has new hampshire. look, she made a joke. desantis has become a joke. he is out of money. he is desperate. you can't find any way or any place where a poll that he is doing better today than he was yesterday. >> okay, i think that there is a lot of republicans right now who fear repeat of 2016 where the field doesn't consolidate when it needs to. there has been a lot of pressure around chris christie who has had about 10% of new hampshire

to endorse someone or drop out of the race and allow that alternate trump vote to split. i think that momentum is only going to increase following iowa, because at the end of the day, there are a lot of americans who want something other than trump. we know six in ten americans don't want a trump versus biden rematch. but when you have a the field split between three candidates, it's really hard for anyone to overtake the giant in the road. >> you don't say six in ten republicans. and there is a reason for that. he has a 50-point lead in national poll. >> rapid consolidation, though, doesn't all help haley. if desantis were to disappoint and drop out, a large number of his people moving forward go to trump. trump can pull ramaswamy's cheney time he feels like it. there is some percentages there, and i suspect he will do that at some point. i agree christie is an anvil around haley in new hampshire, but some other consolidation will help trump as well. >> a quick break. more to discuss about tonight's

town hall, including how the candidates tackled today's school shooting in perry, iowa, where a sixth grader was murdered and fife others wounded not far from tonight's event.

tonight, cnn town halls take place less than an hour's drive from that shooting in perry, iowa, that we told you about. one sixth grader was murdered, four students and one school administrator were wounded. this is how ron desantis and nikki haley previously addressed attempts to curb gun violence. >> why can't you get rid of ar-15s? the reality is even if you did that, it might make you feel good today. there's going to be another shooting next week. >> we need to focus on what really matters. mental health is the cancer that no one is talking about. >> my approach to firearms is i'm going to stand rock solid behind our second amendment rights, our constitutional freedoms. and i will focus the attention of law enforcement on individuals, convicted felons, people who are mentally ill or dangerous to the community.

you've got to work with law enforcement, not against law enforcement, and you need to identify those individuals who should not have access. >> i can't imagine anything changing on their minds tonight. >> not fundamentally. i'm sure they'll offer condolences and sympathies. i think it's a moment to show humanity and have a solemn presence on this. i do think, especially as a pivot toward the general might come for one of these candidates, getting around one of the 80% issues, like supporting red flag laws, is a good place to be. supporting background checks is where they can ultimately come out. >> that's the crazy thing. even after the massacre in our own state at mother emmanuel, nikki haley comes out and says she's against red flag laws, against expanding background checks. one of the worst shootings, a shooting that changed the trajectory of her career, where she did a lot of things right, she wouldn't go for expanded

background checks then. >> i think they should have held this in a dance hall because i think you're going to see a lot of daensing around this issue. desantis was on with kaitlan some weeks ago, and she pressed him on this red flag law. and he was insistent that there's no evidence that that would be helpful. though they have it in his own state. she asked, why don't you repeal it. well, it was passed by a republican legislature, they don't have much enthusiasm for that. >> for her, they're in iowa and she wants to beat expectations for iowa. the people of iowa love the second amendment, of course. she's also talking to these independents in new hampshire. and you wonder if there's a gear in the back of her mind thinking, you know, do i need to -- do i need to say something to this group? because so much of her strategy is banking on getting some of these, you know, independent voters to come into a republican party. >> i agree with that, scott. but the vulnerability that's emerging now is her -- that little gear in the back of her

head, and adjusting ever so slightly according to her political needs. and now she's getting called on it. so, she's going to have to be very careful about this because everybody knows the record that van cites here and everything that she said during this campaign. >> i think she's trying to make inroads with women. that's a core demographic she has an issue with. i think the issue of gun violence and the fact they might be a victim of school shooting resonates with the suburban moms we talk about. i wonder if that might be something she realizes to reach a core constituency, there may need to be movement beyond just addressing the mental health concerns. >> one of the things i think nikki haley has done a good job on -- look at something like abortion -- she's able to convey empathy while she's taking a fairly conservative position often. tonight would be a good chance for her to do that when this comes up. can she show that she can be that empathizer in chief even if she's firm on her policy positions?

that's a way to get a win out of it. desantis is not good at that kind of thing, so that could show separation. >> i think she's doing well with suburban voters around the des moines area. the question is can she press beyond that into some of these other areas. and there, movement on this issue may not be as well received. >> a republican told me the haley movement is real in the metros, but can you get into the rural areas. that's where desantis is boarding on the -- sensitive to out in the rural parts. >> they've spent -- haley and desantis, i think they've spent about $10 million in attack ads on each other. i think it's, like, $1.5 million attacking the former president. that's it. does that make sense to you? >> well, it make sense in that one of them is trying to pass

the other to get to the next round to challenge trump. but, again, i think this is a reflection of trump's power within the party right now because there is a cost they feel to going frontally after him. so, they'll go after each other's jugulars and they'll go after his capillary, right? they're not going to go full frontal on trump because they want to -- they want to create a path for at least people who are open to them and him to come their way. and there's, you know -- he has made himself a sympathetic figure to republican voters. so, you know, look at chris christie. he's attacking trump frontally, and he's the least popular candidate in the republican field. >> i think, you know, you say that, you know, trump has made himself sympathetic. i wonder, if you had a world where he wasn't being indicted over and over and over again and he might, in that world, felt he had to walk on some of these stages and debate somebody, and maybe you're in a different world. i do think if you look back, his -- trump was -- and desantis

were very close in the poll. and then every indictment, you see pulling away, pulling away, pulling away. >> it happened at the same time desantis chose to wait. we sat here and desantis was riding high. and in the immediate aftermath, it looked like people were ready to dump trump and go in a different direction. they chose to wait. he waits several months. and in that intervening period -- >> pounded him with tens of millions of dollars of negative ads. >> he's been attacked more than donald trump and joe biden combined. >> keep in mind too many of us were here for the night trump relaunched his campaign. you couldn't find a prominent republican in sight. i think matz gaetz was the biggest republican represented there. he has the endorsement of all the house leadership. >> he's got vanilla ice. >> he's got vanilla ice. he has really taken advantage of these indictments, turned it on its head, used the martyr complex, and it's somehow

breaking through. i don't give trump tremendous credit. he's not a remarkable salesman in this regard. those running against him didn't litigate the case of why those were legitimate in the course. >> i think it's interesting he's chosen to spend the day before the iowa caucuses in the hearing in washington over whether he has immunity or not. i do feel he's going to spend a lot of the campaign campaigning from courthouse steps because of what van said. >> you can't discount the fact that so much of this was a strategic argument. he can't win. maybe it's because of the legal issues. maybe it's because of something else. what's happened? all these national polls have come out showing trump winning, winning in swing states, beating joe biden nationally. and they're still making it today. only trump's going to lose, trump's going to lose. the republican voters don't believe that. they think vindication's at hand. >> i want to thank everybody. the back-to-back town halls with ron desantis and nikki haley ron desantis and nikki haley ststart now.

-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com ♪ [ applause ] good evening and welcome to iowa, where the first contest of the 2024 presidential race is now just 11 days away. we are live at grand view university, for a special night of back-to-back cnn town halls. i'm kaitlan collins. and tonight two of the leading republican candidates are here, florida governor ron desantis and former south carolina governor and former u.n. ambassador nikki haley. they'll take questions from iowa vote everies, setting the stage for their first one-on-one presidential debate live on cnn here in iowa next week. we're giving both candidates opportunities to make their closing arguments to iowans, as they battle against one another and against the fron