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hello in and welcome. it is time to get together with some smart people to break down the week's big stories. today we're asking does donald trump have a case for presidential immunity as the appeals court preparing to hear arguments that could change the entire election. then president biden's new campaign strategy appears to be less bidenomics, more hypno references. is the president running away from his record? for shizzle, yay or nay on the newest olympic reporter, snoop dogg. the gang is all here so sit back, relax and let's talk about it. ♪ ♪ up first as we mark the third anniversary of the january 6th attack on the capitol, the central issue now is whether donald trump's criminal cases

can go forward. this week a three-judge panel will take up the question and potentially decide his political future. a major legal fight playing out tuesday, focused on two words. >> presidential immunity. >> donald trump claims he can't be prosecuted for what happened on january 6th because he was still in office, an argument the special counsel reject. >> an indictment was unsealed charging donald j. trump with conspiring. >> the dc appeals court will hear arguments, but whoever wins, the case is almost certain to end up at the supreme court. the justices agreed friday to hear whether states can keep trump off the ballot. >> after this we are going to walk down, and i will be there with you. >> at the heart of the matter, whether the former president engaged in insurrection. >> we fight. we fight like hell. >> maine joined colorado in barring trump from the primary citing the constitution's

insurrection clause which is unprecedented. >> it is also unprecedented for a presidential candidate to engage in insurrection. >> however, the fact remains, donald trump has not been charged or found guilty of insurrection in any criminal court. here with me around the table, podcaster cara swisher. editor of "the decision pasch" and "los angeles times"" columnist jonah goldberg. lulu navarro. and president of the manhattan institute and contributing editor of "the national review," welcome back. here is to a 2024 with lots to argue about. let me start with a threshold question with you. does trump have a case for immunity that he can't be charged criminally for any actions while he was in office? >> my sense is that it is not an especially strong case, that these were things that were not done in his official duties as

president but rather as an office seeker. but there is an argument that when you look at the founding era, when you look at the federalist papers there was a deep concern about the judicial branch basically taking action against the executive branch, and i can't imagine a scenario if this were to go to the scenario if it were to go to the supreme court you might peel off two or three justices on that basis. again, i don't think he is going to prevail but i do think there's some give here. >> lulu, the trump lawyers make exactly the argument that reihan did, which is that the federal courts including the supreme court can't sit in judgment of the executive. is there any merit to the argument that donald trump has just total presidential immunity? >> no, he is trying to argue that he has total immunity, and that is a ridiculous argument to make. no one in this country has total immunity, much less the

president of the united states, who is not supposed to be above the law, be it a man or a woman. he is not a king. he is the president of the united states, or former president in this case, and i think that it is dangerous to even -- to consider that he would be given that kind of leeway. >> the supreme court decided late friday that it will hear the case of states kicking trump off the ballot for allegedly engaging in insurrection. there are a bunch of questions such as whether the 14th amendment even covers the president, but i wanted to discuss the main central issue. jonah, did strtrump engage in insurrection? >> i do not typically use the word insurrection because it is a complicated set of standards. if you read a fundamental article that lays out this case, it is a judgment call whether it rises to the level of insurrection. i do think he fomented a riot. i think he committed an

impeachable assault on the supreme -- the supreme branch of government which is the legislative branch. i think what he did was a hate crime against the constitution. whether it meets the threshold of insurrection, i honestly don't know. >> it becomes important when you are talking about the 14th amendment. >> it does become poimportant talking about the 14th. i suspect the court will be 9-0 against the 14th amendment issue and 9-0 whether he has immunity. >> trump's defenders say he wasn't inciting, at worst january 6th was a riot. >> right. >> not an insurrection. the fact is, and it is interesting, neither the federal prosecutors in washington nor the state prosecutor, the fulton county prosecutor in atlanta, neither of them charged him with an insurrection. >> insurrection. >> so was it an insurrection? >> well, you know, i'm not a lawyer about these things. as jonah said it will be up to the supreme court. i think they have a very good

case making that because i think publicly a lot of people have that point of view. well, it got out of control. well, he said a lot of things that got people going. now, other people then prosecuted for hate crimes, they've been prosecuted for creating a riot and things like that. i think probably that is his best argument, is that it was bad but not that bad. i wasn't trying to overthrow the government when i think he was. i think he was trying to stop the process. but that's his best argument going in and i think that's probably what they'll stick to, and it is hard for a lot of people to get their idea around essentially a treason us beh behavior for a president that's very popular. >> i think one of the things people fail to understand, and i agree with you, is they say well, the president hasn't been convicted of insurrection and hasn't had due process on this charge. the 14th amendment was written this way to avoid having to put hundreds of thousands of confederate soldiers into individual trials, right. it was this blanket approach that said you basically were involved in insurrection if you were on the side of the

confederacy, an insurrection -- you know, uprising against the government. so you don't actually have to have a criminal ruling according to the interpretation of this. you just have to meet the qualifications of how they define insurrection, and there are good arguments on both side. >> and the precedent being overturned here comes from 1867 from chief justice salmon chase who is saying, look, this is unworkable. you need to actually have some legal process, congress needs to pass legislation here because if you don't have that, if you are just using these very vague standards of what represents insurrection, then you have a problem where partisan secretaries of state, anyone can strip folks from the ballot in a way that could be incredibly chaotic. so i think we've really opened a can of worms. i agree with jonah. i think it will be 9-0. >> i just want to say one thing. i find it wonderful we are all citing, you know, legal theory from the 1800s, but this is insane. i mean that we are having to discuss the 14th amendment when

we are talking about the probable next gop nominee for the presidency in the former president, whether or not he actually committed insurrection or not. i just wanted to pause for a moment and think about the fact that we are actually engaging in this discussion. >> i want to throw one more log on the fire because there was a poll this week that indicated that republicans -- and we are talking about the gop nomination -- are even more sympathetic than ever to these arguments about donald trump. i want to put this poll up. only 14% now of republicans say trump bears significant responsibility for january 6th. that's half as many as did back in 2021 after january 6th, and 67% of gop voters say trump's actions on january 6th are not relevant to his fitness to be president. >> what he relies o thatn. that's what he has relied on for everything he has done, people

get tired and want to move on. he has benefited from that. kevin mccarthy, same thing. he benefits in his constant repetition of it, makes it easier for him to make -- >> jonah, how do you explain that? how do you explain the fact basically the gop voters, the vast majority of them, certainly a majority of them, are happily going to give donald trump a pass on his behavior post-election? >> i think there are a lot of explanations for it. part of it is they're wrong. part of it is that there's a social desirability bias in the polling where they're basically booting a middle finger, no satisfaction about any of this stuff. part of it is that trump has benefited supremely from basically being ban issued to crazy right wing media and not been in people's faces very much for the last couple of years. a lot of people have sort of forgotten and only gotten the pro trump spin for a while now. all right. on the democratic side, president biden's campaign strategy is becoming clearer. it could mean you will be

hearing adolf hitler's name a lot more, but is that a winning message? then record-high oil production across the country, but it is the president's slick move that's gone under the radar. and walt disney couldn't have imagined this. our panel gives it yay or nay on the horrific future mickey mouse is now facing. mickey mouse, i hurricmean as ar character, a murderer.

presidential race came down to trump versus biden both candidates would end up trying to sell themselves by bashing their opponent, but president biden has decided to make his move surprisingly early, going harshly negative this first week

of january. two major speeches offer an early sense of president biden's reelection strategy. friday at valley forge where george washington's army camped during the revolutionary war, biden argued donald trump is a threat to democracy. >> he's willing to sacrifice our democracy, put himself in power. our campaign is different. >> on monday he will speak at mother emmanuel church in charleston, the site of a 2015 racist massacre. >> the among dangerous thing to our homeland is white supremacy. >> a concerted effort to black voter, only half of whom approved of biden's work in a recent poll, a sharp drop from the 87% who backed him in 2020. the biden campaign hoping the speeches and new ads draw a starker contrast with trump. aides telling cnn biden may go full hitler, directly comparing

trump's rhetoric to the nazi leader. >> they're poisoning the blood of our country. that's what they've done. >> lulu, is biden smart to go this hard at trump, to go, quote, full hitler in the first week in january? i mean i certainly expected it in the fall, i certainly expected it october or whatever, but really early to be doing this. >> some would argue it is a little late. i mean have you looked at his poll numbers? have you seen how people are seeing his presidency? i think he's also deeply worried. i mean i think we are now heading into the general election. we kind of know -- >> even though we haven't had the primary yet. >> i know. but it feels like we already know these will be the two people facing off against each other, and biden is taking the fight to trump. i think by letting trump just sort of dominate the airwaves, i think it has been a mistake. up think it is important to

remind people what exactly the fight is about. >> jonah, the maga extremist argument, which is the one that in the fall of 2022 biden made, worked very well for him and for democrats in the midterm. what do you think of him going that argument and literally in the speech on friday talking about nazis and comparing trump's rhetoric to nazi rhetoric, doing it this early? >> i think that's the right question. it is a tactical question to me as just a matter of politics. i would have his surrogates doing that now. there's a real problem, or there's a real potential of this all sort of becoming background noise and there's no shock value to it by the time you get to the general election. so it is going to be dismissed by a lot of people on the right pretty early because argument of hitler is an old tactic of the left, and even if it has more

salience now, but i feel it is early to come out of the box like this because it is the point of persuading his own coalition to come home. >> where do you go when you start with hitler? satan? i'm not sure where you move. one of the problems he has got -- one thing he can do is repeat it and keep repeating it. the more we see trump say crazy things and people pay attention to it -- >> but 11 months is a long time. >> it is a long time, but it will grow over time. people will go, oh, that guy. i think it is better to say, look at that guy rather than look at me. >> one advantage is that when trump gets called hitler, trump's response is to say, hey, i didn't get this from mein it is kampf. i didn't plagiarize hitler. >> lulu, what did you want to say? >> i wanted to say as a tactic, sure, is it going to get old. but this is his central message. this has been his central message since the moment he actually said he was going to try to become president of the

united states. it is not unusual for biden to say, this is why i am here, i am fighting for democracy, i am fighting for this country, and i consider trump to be an existential threat. >> let's be honest about something. one of the reasons, and i kind of touched on it in the beginning, one of the reasons that biden is taking this route is because he has spent all fall touting his own record, leaning into bidenomics and it didn't work. take a look at this latest cnn average of recent polls. at this point 38% approve of the job the president is doing. 58% disapprove. reihan, i mean, you know, he was making the affirmative case for himself and folks weren't buying it. >> joe biden's best chance right now is to have a low turnout election. we are in a very different moment right now in which in the past the assumption was always

among progressive activists, we need to get folks to turn out, we do better in presidential years than we do in off-year elections. now it is very different. jonah mentioned very astutely in 2022 these tactics worked because you had a somewhat more affluent, more educated electorate. a lot of folks were on the sidelines. what biden is trying to do here, i suspect, is trying to demotivate some folks, number one. number two, try to see to it that people that might otherwise go to a no labels candor to robert kennedy jr. stick with him out of the sense that the alternative is so noxious and terrible. but the problem is, you know, as everyone is saying that, you know, this tactic wears thin. it seems like it is not especially plausible. it seems like a desperate maneuver from someone who had a failed presidency. >> well, that's a question -- >> yeah. >> -- a failed presidency. i mean the economy is going great. gdp -- >> terrible what is happening here. he should be focusing on trump. that should be where he should focus, but i'm saying it has to build over time because what he wants to do is, "look at that

crazy guy, look at that dictator." you want some say it and repeat it like trump does. repetition especially on social media -- by the way, the biden people are quite good on social media if you look at it. the constant repetition is something that does work over time and people are worried -- >> what do you think of reihan talking about a failed -- >> oh, it is not failed, reihan. >> look, you might believe that but when you look at the electorate they look at 2017 to 2019 whether we like it or not as a better time for their pocketbooks. when you are looking at the geopolitical situation it looks like it is out of control and it looks as though biden hasn't done terribly much about that so you're right that he is going back to the old standards. i'm not sure it is going to resonate, but i agree it might be his best option, the only thing he really can say. i think there are some voters out there who pick up on that, right? who understand this is -- >> yeah. >> floundering instead of -- they think it is a floundering. >> some of it is, some of it isn't. it has been an incredibly

difficult situation internationally everywhere. >> not the return to normal. >> exactly. trump is always wandering around -- when he was chasing hilary clinton it is the same thing. >> the presidency has something to do with the level of geopolitical situations unfolding. ultimately, it belongs to biden. >> i think we will be discussing this some more. following the murder george floyd three letters emerged ars part of our lexicon, diversity, equity and inclusion. almost four years after floyd's death, hatss the country moved already? our panel's take, that's next. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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join the mi'm not.of people taking back their privacy you got us t-mobile home internet lite. after a week of streaming they knocked us down... ...to dial up speeds. like from the 90s. great times. all i can do say is that my life is pre-- i like watching the puddles gather rain. -hey, your mom and i procreated to that song. oh, ew! i think you've said enough. why don't we just switch to xfinity like everyone else? then you would know what year it was. i know what year it is. when the brawl dropped on

january 1st, a bunch of new state laws went into effect, including a texas ban on diversity, equity and inclusion, or dei, programs in state colleges and universities. it is a big change from three years ago after the murder of george floyd when companies and schools and other institutions pledged to make dei a major focus. following this week's resignation of harvard's first black president, claudine gay, diversity is once again a hot subject. elon musk posted on his x platform, "dei is just another word for racism," which prompted a response from fellow billionaire mark cuban who said diverse workforces are good for business. so, cara, why has the debate and attitude towards dei changed so dramatically in just a few years? >> because i think the right has done a good job of pointing out all kinds of problems with it, and people do feel

uncomfortable, especially, you know, because what is fair, what is not fair, how do i get into things, what can you say at work. i think mark was really smart -- >> mark cuban? >> mark cuban, saying it is good to have a diverse workforce and elon was relying on votes, like why don't you have -- i think j.d. vance said you should have a short asian woman on your basketball team. it is ridiculous. you are not interested in debating the issue how you get to equity. i think most people feel like we live in a meritocracy. in a lot of cases we live in a mirror-ocracy, you hire people like you and you see it all over the place. people don't quite know where they are and it is very easy to attack. >> reihan, has in effect the country moved on from the soy-called racial reckoning we were "access all talking about e murder of george floyd? >> i nithink there's a broad see

that racial reckoning smuggled in ideological ideas that weren't about diversity but on imposing uniformity. these actually don't respect all sorts of diversity, including viewpoint diversity, including the fact that, look, in some cases you have groups that are over represented, and that can be okay. you know, the point that j.d. vance was making about the dallas mavericks is that it can be good and healthy and reasonable in some domains to have -- [ speaking in a global language ] . >> what she said. >> you can make that, but the fact that i'm one on a panel of four, i'm massively over represented. but i think it is reasonable to say you will judge people based on merits. >> excuse me. >> when you are looking at high performance -- >> excuse me, excuse me. this is the burden and i can't tell you how infuriating i find

it. this is the burden that always comes with representation. the idea is that because you are a person of color, suddenly it is -- you are only there because it is some noblesse oblige, because some white guilt put you there, because there was some dei initiative and you can't win either way you look at it. what infuriates me is you look at the claudine gay thing and everyone is talking about dei. this woman cannot win or lose. if she is there -- >> i'm happy to talk about claudine gay, please. >> let me finish. if she is there, it is because of dei. that they put her there because she is black. if she loses and they kick her out it is because she was never good enough to be there in the beginning. you can't win in this situation. >> yeah, but -- >> and it is your feweriating as a person of color to constantly have this cudgel put on our heads. >> i get the argument you can't win but you can't have it both ways. you can't celebrate and tout

someone was hired and it is a wonderful thing to expand diversity and harvard went full tilt to talk about hiring the first black woman. >> but the point is -- >> i don't care. she was caught obviously plagiarizing. >> it was ideological, very well-funded -- >> the motives of the attack don't change the fact she plagiarized. >> oh, come on. >> when i disagree with you, cara -- >> when somebody fails who is white and is a man. >> you mean like the president of -- >> yes, when nobody -- in fact, there are books written about this, fail and then come back. you know, look at -- >> pivot. >> pivot, exactly. >> nice way to get into your podcast. >> thank you. pivot, and then when a person of color fails all of a sudden it is an indictment of an entire system. >> this is so ridiculous. she was a graduate of exeter and stanford with a ph.d. from

harvard. >> do you know why? you have to be excellent to get where she is. >> second generation haitian american to came from a family who dominated the concrete industry in haiti. she was not the wretched of the earth but should be judged on her qualifications. she was selected because she established the office of diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging at harvard. she presided over a steep decline in the free speech climate, and she also -- >> all right. >> -- targeted minority professors who dissented from her perspective. >> go ahead, lulu. >> that was a problem. she was a person with ideas, not someone -- >> reihan. >> one things that strikes women and people of color a lot, it seems like standards are only applied when it comes to women and people of color. i have seen so many incompetent men on boards of internet companies, and they always talk about, well, we're going to bring on a woman to be more diverse when they've basically driven the company into a wall. we never judged -- used the word standards with white men. we just don't.

>> and merit and all of these other words. let me say one thing -- >> the president of brown university celebrated, african american woman. no one questioned her credentials, her excellence as a steward of that institution. >> are you saying what happened to claudine gay was not a completely engineered -- i mean it was -- chris rufo said it, he admitted to the fact it was entirely engineered. >> should explain, a conservative activist. >> and my colleague. >> who led the charge. >> and my colleague. look, it was not a concerted campaign out of whole cloth. this was based on ideological p prededections. she was someone doing great damage to an important american institution. >> in your opinion. >> and what he was trying to do was surface the hi oypocrisy. harvard ranked dead last in the country on the speech climate.

>> reihan. >> black people, latinos are always the ones who have to sit here and say, you know what? it is exactly right. when we make a mistake we have to wear the cloak of shame and say we never deserved to be here. >> like the black latina -- >> and something else, and i want to say this last thing when we are talking about dei, which is there was a big push in 2020 thinking, okay, here we are. we've had a big racial reckoning, and do you know what happened? all of these dei offices that were created, 75% of them were led by white men. that's all i have to say about that. >> in any case i would recommend reading mark cuban on this because he is smart. he is talking about building a business diverse for the future. >> i have no problem with diverse -- >> how do we get there? >> racism is not useful. >> you can't fight -- >> my problem is dei is that it is illiberal. gay got attention because she couldn't figure out how to speak clearly and with moral

seriousness about anti-semitism. >> but it is not illiberal. >> while she is talking about dei. except for the stuff about jewish genocide, we believe in the other things. that's what got attention to her. she would still be there today if she wasn't a plagiarizing. >> let's lighten thing up. you may seen mickey mouse in a different light. we'll explain. plus, from rapper to reporter.

time now to look at some stories that are just plain interesting as our group once again gives us their yay or nay. up first, your home deliveries soon will be getting to your doorstep a lot faster. the faa has cleared the way for major retailers like amazon and

walmart to have their drone services travel much farther, meaning everything from meals to medicine will be getting to your home in less than 30 minutes, sooner than you expected. cara, are you a aye or nay on drone delivery? >> what do you think? i'm an aye. i love drones, and they very diverse, by the way. i like these things. they've been tested out in places that don't have good delivery systems like in africa, delivered blood and other food. it is really -- i have been following this for years. i think safety issues are there. people might shoot them down. there's all kinds of things we'll have to figure out just with electric vehicles and autonomous vehicles, but i think it is a great way for delivery. it saves time. it saves gas, et cetera. love it. >> but wait a minute here, because amazon is talking about ramping up to 500 million deliveries a year by -- yes, i just wanted to make sure it was a year and not a day. 500 million deliveries a year by the year 2030.

lulu, am i the only person here who sees traffic jams, danger, bedlam in the skies above us? >> no, i don't like drones. bzzzz. i mean they remind me of war zones. i spent a lot of time in war zones and drones are often used for surveillance and you always know a bomb is possibly about to land on you when you hear a drone over your head. it has a bad connotation for me, but also they're weird little machines that fly through the sky. >> yeah, great. >> what do you want me to tell you. >> fantastic. next, disney's iconic character like you have never seen him before. mickey mouse is now in the public domain after disney's copyright expired on january 1st, 95 years after the first appearance of "steam boat willie." that means the loveable rodent's image can be used by anybody in almost anyway, and already at least two horror films featuring a mean mickey are in the works with one called "mickey's mouse

trap." last year the same thing happened with another beloved character with the release of, i'm not kidding, "winnie the pooh: blood and honey." reihan, are you aye or nay on the copyrights of these beloved characters expiring? >> i'm aye on these. they wanted copyrights to be 14 years which is shorter than now, and i think it can be creative. >> cara? >> love it. >> disney says it is going to do everything it can to protect its trademark. you are okay with mickey as a serial killer? >> i loved "blood and honey." >> you saw it? >> i sure did. >> what about mickey porn? i don't know what to say. i think people will do interesting and terrible things. if they violate disney's --

>> i could say the fact that you said mickey porn shows, you went there. >> i went there. >> i'm not sure anybody has. >> i'm sure they have. finally, a surprising hip-hop twist to the upcoming summer olympics. nbc has hired rapper and actor snoop dogg to help with coverage of the paris games as a special correspondent. an nbc executive explained, quote, we don't know what the heck is going to happen but he will add his unique perspective. jonah, aye or nay on snoop dogg joining the ranks of olympic reporters like howard cosell and bob cost advertise? >> let me caveat this by saying rarely have i been torn about something i cared about so little, but -- >> but you're in cable tv. >> i say nay. >> what! >> what! >> i don't know why we have to inject -- i don't know why we have to inject sort of, you know, performative celebrities into every aspect of life. i just don't see the point of

it, but i don't really care. >> in ten seconds. >> fo' shizzle like you just said. ratings, baby. >> did i say it okay? >> i'm not sure. >> i think neither of us should say it again. >> i think it is the only time. you would think president biden would be a big aye on the next story. u.s. oil production hitting record highs. up next, the panel's crude take on why biden isn't touting the country's well-oiled machine. yes, it t is under t the radar.

time for a story that's gone

under the radar. we're talking about sky-high oil production. it turns out the u.s. is pumping out more crude oil than ever before and more than any other country in the world according to the government. as a result, americans are feeling some relief at the pump where gas prices have fallen to $3.25 nationally, down almost $2 a gallon from the high in 2022. but you are not hearing president biden touting the good news. why? well, take a listen to what he said while campaigning back in 2020. >> would you close down the oil industry? >> by the way, i would transition from the oil industry. yes. >> oh, that's a big statement. >> it is beige statement, because i would stop -- >> why would you do that? >> because the oil industry pollutes significantly. >> jonah, is record oil production -- i find it odd asking this question -- a political plus or minus for joe biden? >> i think it is a problem for biden within his own coalition

which is one of the reasons why he doesn't talk about it, and i think it is a huge mistake. it is one of these problems woo have in our politics. republicans throughout the primary including trump, tim scott, they said biden has shut down oil and energy production in this country. it was flatly untrue but the democrats had no incentive because of their own internal coalition problems to say it is not true. >> talking about the left wing environmentalists? >> yes, they want to phase out fossil fuels. republicans take him at his word but it is not true. we're going gangbusters. >> lulu, i was surprised about the fact this exists and the reason is that the spike started as kind of a delayed reaction to russia invading ukraine, oil spiked to $100 a barrel. american companies started drilling like crazy, and biden at that particular point when it was at $4 or $5 a gallon to get gasoline said, pump more. but what does he do now?

>> i mean the fact of the matter is two things can exist at the same time. we can decarbonize, we can transition, but we actually need oil and gas still. so i actually agree with jonah that this is not a problem. he should have been touting this, because you can hold two things at the same time. >> this also applies more broadly with biden and the challenge he faces with his coalition. what he needs to understand, what his team needs to understand to win is that the left has nowhere else to go. what he needs to do is get the suburbanites, get the black moderate voters who don't want ideological democrat president, they want a practical one. talk about oil and gas. talk about backing israel in the war with hamas. you know, just own those things and don't be afraid of that progressive -- >> but you see how scared the biden white house gets when it is about the environment or immigration. >> but it is their staff. it is the people in the corridor who have these views very much at odds with middle class,

working class, black, brown, white voters that they need to actually be on their side who are demoepttivated right now. they need to focus on that group, not a fringey group. >> so we need a bumper sticker that says, joe biden, the gas president. back with your predictions of what is news before it is news. that's right after the break. that's what you would do, just tout it?

♪ ♪ welcome back. it is time for our panel's special takes on what's happening or predictions of what we should be looking out for.

cara, hit me with your best shot. >> well, i was going to talk about dave chappelle's newest show on netflix which i think is another unfunny show because he obsesses on trans people again. i think dave chappelle is incredibly talented. i am a big fan, but i have to say he has to stop making unfunny jokes about trans people. instead, i brought you a christmas present. >> this is very sweet. >> this is a michigan hat. so i'm going to make a prediction, michigan over washington. i have to. my son would murder me if not. so michigan over washington. >> one thing i learned from ronald reagan, never put a hat on, it makes you look like a dough. reihan, what is on your mind? >> in 2023 you saw a surge in unauthorize it migration, about 2 million illegal immigrants came into the country versus 1.6 million legal immigrants. you will see big city mayors but also folks running for competitive seats for congress

will be speaking of this. >> lulu? >> first of all, i feel like i need to bring you gifts. >> that's right. you know, actually -- >> i know, i mean she brought you a lot of stuff. >> i'm going to say this, i do have to say this came from lulu, a taylor swift bracelet. >> cara. >> i'm sorry, cara, excuse me. this came from my granddaughter and i must say hers was fancier than yours. go. >> open primaries. this is movement that is gaining traction. 10% now that we are heading into primary season, only 10% of the voting public actually chooses who is going to be in the primaries, and so many places now believe including arizona, pennsylvania, there's a movement to have primaries be open to members of the other party to reduce partisanship. >> basically a jumbo primary. >> and the idea is to reduce partsonship. what you have now is very, very partisan people going into

primar primaries and getting extreme n. if you have open primaries the idea is to introduce more moderate candidates jonah, take us home. >> i'm in favor, although i would abolish primaries if we could. the success, whether you think it is pernicious or not of the plagiarism scandal with claudine gay combined with the unprecedented ease of new software for finding plagiarism, there will be an all-sides hunt for plagiarism because i think whole generations of people got away with it because the soft wear hadn't existed until recently. >> will it continue to be a capital offense? >> i hope so. >> well. >> wow. >> thank you for being here. thank you for spending part of your weekend with us. we hope to see you right back here next week. ♪ ♪