primar primaries and getting extreme n. if you have open primaries the idea is to introduce more moderate candidates jonah, take us home. >> i'm in favor, although i would abolish primaries if we could. the success, whether you think it is pernicious or not of the plagiarism scandal with claudine gay combined with the unprecedented ease of new software for finding plagiarism, there will be an all-sides hunt for plagiarism because i think whole generations of people got away with it because the soft wear hadn't existed until recently. >> will it continue to be a capital offense? >> i hope so. >> well. >> wow. >> thank you for being here. thank you for spending part of your weekend with us. we hope to see you right back here next week. ♪ ♪

hello, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour. we will take you around the world to ask questions and tackle the big problems and let history be our guide. here is where we're headed this week. the united states fights fires on multiple fronts. will it win? a briefing from one of america's best-known generals, david petraeus. >> we face more challenges in number and more complex and more dangerous challenges than arguably at any time since the end of the cold war. also ahead, the imf chief optimistic about the u.s. economy. >> cheer up, this is a new year, people. then♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ can you feel it ♪ >> rock star lenny kravitz on life, legacy and vying for an

oscar. and from the archive, the anniversary of the pope's first visit to atheist communist cuba. welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour. this year crises overseas could also tip the scales. first in ukraine where the war grinds on and president biden's request for emergency funding could die in congress. in the middle east, the war on gaza threatens to spill across the region. just this week the assassination of a hamas leader in lebanon, massive casualties from twin explosions in iran, and attacks on world shipping by its houthi proxies in yemen. all of these keep a tense region on a hair trigger. and then there's taiwan where this is also an election year. results there could determine china's next threats in the indo-pacific. already these crises consumed

president biden's attention, stealing focus from his reelection campaign. while chaos around the world could play into the hands of donald trump, america's foremost chaos agent. now, as a former cia director and centcom commander, retired general david petraeus has been there, seen and done it all. he now advises civilian and military leaders as a partner of the global investment firm kkr, and he is joining me from the nation's capital. general petraeus, welcome to the program. all of those things i just laid out, all of that stuff we have been watching this week, the dangers in the middle east, are you concerned now that it could start spilling into a wider war? >> well, i think you have to be concerned, christiane. in fact, the way i would characterize the overall global situation is that we face more challenges in number and more complex and more dangerous

chal challenges than arguably than at any time since the end of the cold war if not the end of world war ii. it is a very, very dicey situation out there, as you characterized it. >> so that's pretty, you know, pretty dramatic language in comparison. so from your perspective, from the u.s. perspective, what is the most dangerous or can you not separate them? >> well, i think it is hard to separate them because in a given day one will emerge as more challenging at the moment than the other, but i think we can never lose sight of the most important relationship in the world, and that is the one, of course, between the u.s. and really the u.s.-led west and china. that is the one that has the greatest influence. it is also the one that has the greatest potential downside, if you will. it is that relationship that is the central issue of the day even as, very clearly, the situation in ukraine, the challenges in the greater middle

east, north korea, the continued threats of the most extremists around the world, cyber threats, all of these, these are all plates, if you will, that we have to keep spinning simultaneously. but the plate that is bigger and matters more than all of the others is that, again, which represents the challenge of the relationship between the u.s., the west and china. so let me ask you, just a few minutes ago presidents xi and biden met in california and there seemed to be the beginnings of a deescalation in some way. now the latest is the u.s. thinks it has seen, you know, china moves to upgrade or rebuild its nuclear sites, and we have an election year in taiwan which could actually, you know, be a problem if the pro independence faction wins. is that what you see as -- where do you see a trigger point?

>> well, first of all, i think that the meeting between our two presidents was very modestly encouraging. it is far better than it not happening. the subsequent meetings between various counterpart in our two governments, engagement by other countries of the u.s.-led west with china. this is all an effort to try to establish a floor for a relationship in which in a fairly recent episode a spy balloon is floating over the united states, we picked up the phone in pentagon and no one in beijing answered. so, again, having communication is a positive development, but it is not an enormously positive. this is a beginning, an effort between the two countries, noting that as our national security adviser has described it the relationship is one of severe competition. what we have to do, of course, is ensure that the elements of deterrence are rock solid. the potential adversary's

assessment of our capabilities on the one hand and our willingness to employ them on the other cannot be questioned, but we -- while needing to be very firm, we do not want to be needlessly provocative. again, i think modest encouragement, the efforts to build their nuclear capability, to expand it, those have been ongoing for a very, very long period of time. but, again, these recent episodes, i think modestly again encouraging. >> okay. let's go to the kind of two big crises that are happening right now, two wars that the u.s. has to manage. you know, you have said about gaza that israel should clear, hold and build. what do you mean by that? you know, there's been a lot of criticism now from the u.s. building and allies and the huge death toll that's been incurred by israel's counteroffensive after the slaughter of october 7th. what concerns you most about how that is unfolding?

>> well, first, i think it is a question whether israel can achieve the objective it has set out, wiscoth which i believe, b the way, i agree. hamas needs to be destroyed, but i do believe it needs to be destroyed. that's one of israel's three major stated objectives. the other is to dismantle the political wing. i agree with that objective, and obviously to get their hostages released and recovered. but the way to do that as you and i have discussed since the beginning is by clearing and holding, by separating the population, the people, from the extremists. i don't see that happening across gaza, and now the withdrawal of five brigades from the israeli defense force effort in there is, i think, raising questions about whether israel

can actually destroy hamas, again, dismantle the political wing. by the way, also keep hamas from reconstituting because, of course, there are some additional big ideas that have long been needed such as, you know, the post-conflict operation. who is going to oversee gaza? no hands are going up in the region. there's certainly no competent, capability, trustworthy palestinian entity that can be brought over from the west bank, and it appears by default israel will have to do that. i think the sooner that that reality is acknowledged and washington accepts that as well, because there is no viable alternative if you want to be sure that hamas cannot reconstitute, then they should be planning accordingly. but, above all, who is going to get the additional humanitarian assistance that's desperately needed for the people? what is the vision for the people of gaza and, by the way, for the west bank while we're at it, and who is going to oversee,

who is going to hold and then rebuild, over see the reconstruction, the restoration of basic services, the reopening of markets, schools, clinics, et cetera. i have felt that the hospital should have been kept open, al shifa in particular, all of them, and treat civilians in these hospitals. control them though. ensure that the tunnels underneath them, headquarters or whatever is being done in them is not allowed and is eliminated, but, again, they need to provide for the people without question. >> you know, there is a request about whether a new generation will be radicalized instead of what you have said, to separate extremists from the people. but that's an ongoing question. can i also ask you about ukraine, which is something the u.s. and its western allies pledged and promised to support because of the huge fight for democracy that's on that battlefield? you know, what is going to happen if the -- timothy snyder,

the l historian, told us that everything you guys have given ukraine they have used well, they have done their part. it is the u.s. that's now looking unreliable and also the eu. what is going to be the fall-out from that this year? >> well, first of all, i think that we will see our congress come together. as you know, there is a bipartisan majority very strong in the senate and also quite substantial in the house that wants to provide the additional authorization and appropriations for ukraine. it is the dynamics within the house that make this difficult, an effort to also extract from the administration some agreements on the policies for immigration and so forth. i think this will get resolved. the question is when and how much longer does ukraine go before we can really crank on, turn back on the spigots. having already provided a very substantial amount. $44 billion is not trivial, but it is very affordable. keep in mind that's across a two-year period in which we had

a defense budget in aggregate of $1.7 trillion. two years, of course, of that. that's very affordable. it is very necessary. in my view, this is as right versus wrong as it gets, a brutal, unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country right on nato's borders and we should have no question if russia succeeds there, if putin is able to achieve his very substantial objectives in ukraine, that it won't stop there. moldova will be the next in the crosshairs, perhaps one of the baltic states or some others. so we need -- henry kissinger before he passed away stated that nato's defense now begins at the border between ukraine and russia, and i strongly agree with that. >> very briefly in the last 30 seconds, do you think then all of these crises which the u.s. has some role in could effect the upcoming election? >> i think it is possible, but, as you pointed out at the outset, it is generally about

one's wallet, one's pocketbook. it is about the issues, again, of the economy as they relate to each individual and their assessment of whether they are better off now than they were several years ago. i think that remains to be seen given that inflation is coming down, gdp growth is very substantial given the increases in interest rates and they will begin coming down this year. the question is will the perceptions change about the economy in particular. >> general petraeus, thank you so much for joining us. now, speaking of pocketbooks, my exclusive conversation with the head of the imf who says the u.s. economy is coming in for a soft landing without sliding into recession.

♪ ♪ welcome back. we were warned 2023 would be the

year of recession. it turned out to be the year of remarkable resilience instead. the head of the international monetary fund, kristalina georgieva, says the u.s. economy is now on track for the soft landing many said was impossible. in my exclusive interview i asked her what makes her optimistic for this year. kristalina georgieva, welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> have you been surprised at the end of 2023 about how the economy landed? for instance, in the united states everybody was talking about a recession, but that actually has not happened. >> well, in the beginning of last year we were worried that the economy may be hit so hard by high interest rates that there could be a risk of recession in many places, and i'm delighted that it has proven

to be too pessimistic and outlook. what we see today is inflation is going down, labor markets remain very strong. people have jobs. and the prospects for the year are of not very strong growth, but growth nevertheless. >> and what will that mean -- and what will that mean, growth versus not very strong growth? what will that mean for the individual who is worried about their buying ability, their purchasing ability? >> well, the expectation for this year and for the neck couple of years is that growth would be around 3%. to put it in perspective for people, in the previous the average growth was close to 4%. so, yes, we retain a positive

perspective, but productivity is relatively speaking low. growth expectations are below what we need for improvements in the lives of people everywhere. >> so what i want to ask you is specifically in the united states. what do you forecast will be the state of the economy in 2024? >> we expect in 2024 the trend in inflation going down to continue, and on that basis the fed has already announced that there is a prospect for interest rates to start going down. this would be a relief for businesses and for households. we see growth prospects for the united states to be fairly strong, and that is translating into very strong labor market.

where the u.s. economy is today, definitely soft landing. >> so that's -- people should be feeling good then about the economy, is that correct? >> people should be feeling good about the economy because they finally would see relief in terms of prices. the inflation moderating already and continuing to moderate is due to the decisiveness of the fed to increase interest rates. and while that has been painful, especially for small businesses, it has brought the desired impact without pushing the economy into recession. that is for all americans good news. you have a job and prices are finally starting to moderate. >> what is it economically or in

the atmosphere that causes individuals to tell pollsters that somehow i feel bad? >> christiane, for decades we got accustomed to very low inflation. we forgot what it is for inflation to go up, and suddenly it jumped. that has impacted the mood of people because for some, for the younger generation they don't even know what is this thing, inflation. they didn't live through one. secondly, interest rates went up. again, for a long time interest rates were very low, sometimes even in negative territory. when you get accustomed to borrowing cheap, then when interest rates jump that is a shock. >> what do you hope for, wish

for in 2024 on the economic stage. >> to continue to live in a very resilient world economy that surprises us on the upside, and what i'm wishing for, frankly, is a boring year. we have had too many years with surprises that would shock us. may we please have one that doesn't bring any of those? >> on that note -- >> and, of course, i pray for peace. >> and so do we all. kristalina georgieva, managing director of the imf, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. but, of course, despite all of our wishes, any number of global crises could still cause unwelcome shocks. coming up later on the program, rock star lenny kravitz on his latest project that's getting oscar buzz. before that we are taking you on board a french navy assault ship that's now a floating hospital

off gaza for people caught in the carnage. that's next.

♪ ♪ the gaza health ministry says more than 22,000 have been killed in israel's counteroffensive since october 7th. another 60,000 people have been injured, and they say nearly three-quarters of all of the casualties are women an children. cnn's nauta bashir got rare access to a french hospital ship off the coast where they're treating victims as young as 3 years old. >> reporter: familiar, innocent scrawls of a child, but this child has been through the unimaginable. one of nearly 100 patients evacuated from gaza, a french

helicopter carrier turned hospital ship, kited out with specialist medical facilities. doctors here say they've already carried out 130 operations in just over a month. with patients as young as 3 and injuries spanning from severe burns to amputations. we were going to bed at night, i remember i covered my face with my blanket, a 10 year old says, and then suddenly i found myself in the hospital. i don't know what happened. [ speaking in a global language ] >> reporter: like many his age, his dream was to become a footballer. the aftermath of the airstrike still painful in his memory. a 22 year old was also evacuated in december after his leg was severely injured. his aunt says his learning difficulties mean he's unable to grasp the horror they left behind. when we call our relatives in

gaza there are always airstrikes around them, she says. they keep being told to move to safe areas but there isn't a single safe place left in gaza anymore. the photos of family members killed seem endless. nieces and nephews, children seen in this video, all killed, she says, when their shelter, a u.n.-run school, was struck. i hope i can return to gaza to be with whatever family i have left, i just hope they will be okay. that's all we can hope for in this life. holding on to that hope grows more difficult with each passing day, and while the medical team here does its best to heal the physical wounds of its patients, it is clear that the emotional scarce of this war run deep. when the patients arrive here they all have this look in their eyes, one which makes you feel they have come out of something very, very difficult, the doctor says. it is a bit shocking for us,

we're not used to seeing this look, especially from children. inside gaza, death seems near impossible to escape, and for the thousands wounded there is no respite. the vast majority of hospitals on the strip are no longer operational. doctors, forced to work under israel's unrelenting airstrikes with limited medical supplies. only a small handful of war wounded have so far been evacuated. facilities like this are few. the evacuation process, precarious. while the shattered bodies of these survivors are now slowly on the mend, some have turned their minds to remoding the fragments of their lives back home. gaza is my home. even if i die, i want to die in gaza, she says. we will rebuild everything, even if we have to start from zero.

nauta bashir, cnn, northern sinai. still to come on the show, from the archive, how atheist cuba finally came in from a cold excommunication. first, if you have got it, flaunt it. why rocker lenny kravitz is still dancing nearly ncaa it at nearly 60.

♪ ♪ welcome back to the program. after 35 years in the music business and four grammys to boot, lenny kravitz is now eyeing oscar glory with his new song "road to freedom." he wrote it for the civil rights by obit rust in, about the little-known activist behind the march on washington, bayard rust in. ♪ ♪

♪ freedom ♪ ♪ so much to be done ♪ ♪ we're marching on and on and on ♪ ♪ smell the road to freedom ♪ ♪ freedom ♪ >> the song has already got the presidential seal of approval from barack and michelle obama since it was their company that produced the movie. this week i reached lenny kravitz early one more in los angeles. >> welcome to the program, lenny kravitz. what did you know about bayard rustin when you first -- you know, were talked to about the film and about the score? >> well, here is the thing. i knew his name but i did not know the story. i was actually embarrassed by that because i grew up in a family that was involved in the civil rights movement and i did not know his story.

i did not know his involvement as far as being the architect behind the march on washington. so i knew when i got the call that this was going to be something that was very important. if i didn't know his story, there's so many that don't. it was time that bayard rustin was seen and heard and understood. >> i know. and ever since this film has been out i guess a lot of people have learned that he was the man behind martin luther king jr. famous march and helped to organize it. >> yes. >> you wrote the song, right? what did you feel you had to convey right out of the box? >> the spirit of the movement which, you know, "the road to freedom" is what all of these great people were on and what bayard rustin was on. that road continues today. i mean we are still facing so many of the same issues in a different way, in a different

time period, but this road is endless. we are continually moving boundaries and walls and pushing our way through to try to get to a better world. so that's what i wanted to convey. >> can i ask you? because reading the research for this interview i was really stunned by something really important in your life, not just for you but for culture itself, american culture. you are the son of a white jewish father and a black mother with bahamian roots. >> yes. >> not only that, she, your mother, went on to portray the first -- i think it is the first biracial couple on american television in "the jeffersons." >> yes. >> that's huge. >> yes, to think it was 1975 and that was the first interracial couple on primetime television,

was quite extraordinary, and the fact that she actually was married to a white man. this is very interesting that that was her lot to play this role, you know. when normal lear who just passed recently gave her the role, he said, i want to make sure that you don't mind playing this role because you are going to have to be close to this man, he is going to be, you know, kissing you and being close with you. she pulled out a picture of my father and he said, "i'll see you on monday." >> it is such a good story, but it is also bittersweet. i am going to get into -- you know, get into that in a moment. i want to ask you what you thought of your friend, i think he was your friend at one point, the founder of rolling stone, the bible for rock and music during the last century, and promoting his book he told "the new york times," now infamously, that the reason all seven of his subjects are white men is that there aren't any women or

artists of color, quote, articulate enough on the subject to speak about. so how did you feel and did you ever confront him about that? >> as you say, we've been friends for many years and i would still call him a friend. i do not feel -- someone can have a moment where they lose their mind perhaps, but the statement was not true. it was ridiculous. i don't know why he said what he said, you know. i have no idea because he is a very smart human being who created a great institution, you know. at one time "rolling stone" was, you know, an amazing, amazing magazine with great writers and so forth. but i do not understand that. i cannot explain that to you other than it was completely

wrong. you know, i wonder how he feels about it today. >> i mean it is truly mystifying, frankly. let me ask about your upcoming world tour. so you've got a new album, "blue electric light" and you have a new single from it. >> yes. >> it is quite racy, lenny kravitz. can i play a little bit? i don't even know if we are allowed to play the less clothed bits. >> please do. >> but we're going to play a bit. ♪ can you feel it ♪ ♪ on my tk421, look out baby ♪ ♪ try the one ♪ ♪ the one ♪ ♪ so much better ♪ ♪ for my tk421 ♪ ♪ ♪ >> so faithful viewers of your music videos will want to look at the whole video because we couldn't put all of the -- you know, the revealing shots in, but what is tk421 mean?

>> it actually was a reference from paul thomas anderson movie, who is one of my favorite directors. "boogie nights," where it is -- it is actually a modification to a stereo system that makes the stereo system better, have more bass, better sound, louder. so i just used it agency a metaphor of making something better. >> we wish you good luck on the tour. thanks for being with us. everybody will be watching for oscar night and the nominations. so good luck with all of it. lenny kravitz, thanks for being with us. >> thank you. good to speak with you. bye-bye. and the movie "rustin" is now streaming on netflix. when we come back, a modern day miracle. an anti-communist pope makes a historic tririp to phi dfidel c cucuba, from our a archive nexe. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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♪ ♪ welcome back. 62 years ago this week cuba's revolutionary communist leader, fidel castro, was ex communicated by rome after he declared cuba to be an atheist state. by the 1990s castro and the church began to reconcile. in january 1998, john paul ii, the vehement anti-communist, became the first pope to visit cuba. landing in havana he implored, make cuba with all of its magnificent potential open itself up to the world, and may the world open itself up to cuba. many heard that as a call for

the united states to end its harsh trade embargo against its island neighbor. i was in cuba for the pope's historic visit where i witnessed the impact of that blockade on the people. >> reporter: the casual observer may see all of this and think cuba is the land of plenty. but look a little closer and you will find a lot of people just looking. the typical couple comes here perhaps once every two weeks, examines every stall, and scrutinizes every price because the average salary is less than $10 a month and the u.s. embargo means that every pepper, every peanut is a luxury. this is where most people buy their staples, at the state grocery store where prices are subsidized and amounts are fixed, when they're available. every cuban household gets a monthly ration book, one bar of

soap, six pounds of rice. only families with children under seven get milk. we asked these people how they survive. one man told us he manages on his pension and help from his grown children, but others interrupt. >> translator: i haven't bought anything yet today. i'm going to see if i can afford anything. if i can't, i will go back to my home empty handed, and what will my children eat? >> reporter: orlando tells us he can barely live on what he earns and he earns an average wage. he has three children, the whole family lives in one room, no bathroom, no refrigerator, a cooking stove in the corner. orlando's daily obsession, finding milk for the children. he's a hospital orderly, who has

to work odd jobs on his off hours. the milk he needs costs one-third of his monthly salary. others need medicine, restricted by the u.s. embargo. >> translator: the americans are strangling us. my daughter is sick, and we don't have medicine. they should lift the embargo. >> prescriptions for drugs to treat a basic stomach parasite are needed, but the pharmacies don't stock it. they don't stock much of anything. the shelves are practically bare. at cuba's best pediatric hospital, the staff works around the shortages. they ration everything from x-rays to operations. emergency surgery is performed, the rest must wait. the best, cheapest medicine and equipment are 90 miles away in the united states, but the embargo forces cuba to pay four

times as much to ship supplies thousands of miles from south korea. it's both stressful and immoral, say the doctors. [indiscernible] >> if american people know this, things would change inlin less n 24 hours. >> havana looks like america, frozen in time. the chevys and buicks are all classics from the '50s. wherever you go, whoever you talk to, you always here people blame the u.s. embargo for all their woes. the fact is that cuba's rigid

socialist structures are as much to blame for this country's dysfunctional economy. a few openly admit that, and they complain about a growing elite. most people are suffering, says this woman, but those at the top by fidel's side live very well. and the gap gets wider. in 1993, fidel castro allowed ordinary cubans to hold dollars and open special dollar stores, but not everyone has access to those dollars. >> translator: at those stores, there is everything, but we have no dollars because fidel doesn't pay us in dollars. >> reporter: pesos don't buy much, but still people like orlando don't wake up every morning plotting how to overthrow fidel. rather, how to find milk for their children. >> translator: i don't know who to blame. there are many like me. >> reporter: and theirs are the politics of survival.

>> it's incredible to think that today, 26 years later, daily life and relentless shortages of basic necessities are as bad as they were then. america's old foe fidel castro is long dead and buried, but america's trade embargo remains in place. it would seem, especially now, that the united states could ill afford generations of enmity in cuba, the middle east or anywhere. >> when we come back, more questions and answswers. "ask amamanpour" is s next.

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and finally, we started this program by talking about all the elections around the world this year, including, of course, in the united states. our question comes from a worried european viewer about donald trump. >> why is it that so many americans, despite all the terrible things he does, still support him? >> well, it does appear, according to all the polls, that donald trump will be the republican nominee. but it's also true that he's been charged on 91 different criminal counts, he's been indicted four times. polls suggest that if, in fact, he's convicted by the time of the election, most people would not vote for a convicted felon. there's that. but also, the key question is about what news people are looking at. the latest poll from the "washington post" shows that about a quarter of all americans

believe that the fbi instigated the january 6th insurrection at the congress. now, we know that is not true. we know that at least 760 people have actually plead guilty to their involvement in that. i think, again, a lot of this boils down to what news or what information people are getting and how that shapes everything, including presidential politics. now, that's all we have time for. if you want to ask me a question, scan the qr code on your screen or e-mail ask amanpour at cnn.com. you can find all our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com/podcasts and on all other major platforms. i'm christiane amanpour in london. thank you for watching, and see you again next week. ♪ .