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tonight on three 60, can the president get away with murder? that question in the chilling answer got a court today is the former president makes a case for presidential immunity and raises the specter of criminal impunity. also tonight, the grandmother who bought the election lie, does she still believe it going into her first night of a five year sentence? and later, meet the man who has found a airliners missing door plug in his own back yard. his find could help find experts find out what severely damaged airlines flight. -- that nothing a president doesn't office can be criminally prosecuted unless he or she is first impeached by the house and convicted by the senate that's what his attorney, john sauer told a three judge panel of the d. c. circuit

court of appeals today. and what's more, in a remarkable exchange with one of them, judge florence pan he conceded that the principle would apply even if a president ordered a hit on a political opponent. >> i asked you, yes or no, a yes or no question. could a president who ordered seal team six to assassinate a political rival, who was not impeached, could he be subject to criminal prosecution? >> if he were impeached and convicted first, hands down. >> so your answer is? >> yes. -- >> well that's the kind of thought experiment judges often pose to probe the limits of an argument before them. rarely do they get such a breathtaking answer. according to our elie honig, who we will hear from in a minute. the exchange prompted james pierce, the attorney representing special counsel jack smith to ask, quote, what kind of world are we living in? if that hypothetical holds true. for his part, the former president suggested that losing his case would create, quote, bedlam in the country. what he would not do is answer the following question about any violence that would come with it.

>> you just used the word bedlam, would you tell your supporters now, no matter what, no violence? >> [silence] >> in a moment, our political and legal team join us to talk about how it could reshape -- the power of the presidency for generations to come. first, cnn's paula reid with more of this consequential day in court. >> president trump traveled to washington tuesday, to watch arguments in a federal appeals court hearing, over whether he should be shielded from criminal prosecution. >> i feel that as a president, you have to have immunity, very simple. >> trump was not required to be in attendance, but was in court to witness the three judge panel expressed skepticism of his legal team's claim that he could not be prosecuted for his actions, unless he is first impeached and convicted by congress. >> can a president order seal team six to assassinate a political rival, and that's an official act in order to -- >> he would have to be, -- you know impeached and convicted before the criminal prosecution.

>> but i asked you a yes or no question. >> there is a political process that would have to occur under the structure of the constitution, which would require impeachment and conviction by the senate. and in these exceptional cases -- >> trump's lawyers argue that when trying to overturn the 2020 election, trump was acting in his official capacity. >> to authorize the prosecution of a president for his official acts would open a pandora's box, from which this nation may never recover. >> trump's lawyer also warned that if this near absolute immunity was not recognized, there could be a possibility of vindictive prosecutions against political rivals. >> it would authorize, for example, the indictment of president biden in the western district of texas after he leaves office, for him it's mismanaging the border, allegedly. >> the special counsel rejected the arguments, noting that charges brought in this case because of what they described as extraordinarily conduct. >> never before has there been allegations that a sitting

president has, with private individuals, and using the levers of power, sought to fundamentally subvert the democratic republic and the electoral system. >> and argued that impeachment and conviction through a political process should not be required, before a criminal prosecution. >> i think it would be awfully scary if there weren't some sort of mechanism by which to reach that, criminally. >> paula, so what happens next? >> well anderson, it appears unlikely that trump is going to prevail here. but even if he loses, he can still ask the entire circuit to hear his case. now, that would require a majority of the judges in the circuit to agree to hear the case. it's unclear if they will do that. but remember, the strategy is as much about delay as it is about the constitutional questions. and if that doesn't work, he can still appeal to the supreme court. but it's unclear if they are going to want to weigh in here. remember, they are already weighing this other question related to trump about ballot eligibility.

but the longer that trump can draw this out, and the longer it takes to get the final answer on this question of immunity, the last likely it is that special counsel jack smith will be able to bring his election subversion case to trial. so even if trump loses on the merits here, anderson, he still may win on the tactics. >> paula reid, thanks very much. joining us now, cnn political commentator and former trump campaign advisor david urban. also cnn's kaitlan collins, thank of the source. and with us now, -- ellii honig and jessica roth. like eliahna, she is a former special prosecutor. so elie, what were your big takeaways? >> so anytime you are a lawyer in your finders of vouching for a preposterous, ridiculous outcome, it's a good sign that you are in trouble. and trump's team today took a surprising position, that i think landed them in the spot, where they were arguing that it could be that the president orders murder and cannot be prosecuted. they sort of invented this

argument that first, you have to be impeached by the house, and then convicted by the senate. and only then can you be prosecuted. and, i want people to understand, there is no magic to these formulations. we are in new ground here, legally. it's not like there's some coated in the constitution. what the judges, and maybe some of the justices are going to be asking is, is this workable? does this lead to an outrageous outcome? and if it does, i think you are out of luck. and i just don't think trump's lawyers are going to win, based off of that argument. >> because under this absolute immunity theory that the trump team is pushing, if a president committed crimes while in office and wasn't impeached, there would be no mechanism for accountability. >> exactly. you can think of the worst scenario possible, ex assassination, selling military secrets. and their position is unless he is impeached or convicted by the senate, he is scot-free. by the way, the better answer to the question about the assassination would have been, of course he can be prosecuted. >> so a president, i mean could the impact the president kill his valet? and if it wasn't done in the white house lawn, and there was some question about who did it? >> exactly. by the argument that donald trump's team made today, he would be scot-free. but the better argument would be, of course he could be

prosecuted, because it is outside the scope of the presidency. but they made this bizarre turn, and left him in a bad spot. >> know anderson, when i was listening to this you know, i am not a prosecutor, but as a recovering lawyer. i was listening, and i was thinking to myself, just stick to the official acts argument, a much tighter argument. and you have much more to argue there to say listen, he was looking into this investigation, he was investigating this election because it is part of his official duties as president, to make sure there are three -- and it's all part of this giant scope, as opposed to coming up with this construct, which is clearly just wacky. >> i mean -- do you think there's any validity to the trump team's argument? >> not with respect to this hypothetical of whether or not he could be prosecuted for ordering seal team 6 to kill his political rival. on the larger question, we have to take a step back from that particular hypothetical to, is there anything that is troubling about the idea of potentially being political prosecutions, his argument is, they would be political on the former president? i do think that is a question that courts would want to think about seriously. and for that reason actually,

interestingly, if the special counsel said look, you don't have to agree with judge chutkan that there is no such thing as presidential immunity from criminal prosecution in all circumstances, full stop. you could just say that in the circumstances presented here, it is very clear there is no immunity, and we are going to leave open for another day the possibility that it's a very narrow set of exceptional circumstances, there might be presidential immunity. and he gave the example of a president who, on very short notice, has to decide whether to order a drone strike. and he said that might be the kind of situation where it is a national military interest at stake, and there is very little time, where a court might say we are reluctant to say categorically there could never be presidential immunity. but that is not this case, they said. and so, if you are inclined to reach this question at all beyond just affirming judge chutkan's decision, which was categorical, just leave it open

for another day, and decide here there's just no question. >> the attorneys for trump argued something different after the, during the second impeachment after the insurrection. i want to play youou some of w t was said in court. >> there is a quote in the congressional record, in which your council, i'm sorry your client said through council, no former officeholder is immune from the destination and prosecution. >> investigation is what -- well, that may be true -- but as to the principal officer, the president, he is immune unless he is impeached and convicted. and again it comes back to. -- >> but he was the president at the time, and his position was that no former officeholder is immune. and in fact, the argument was there is no need to vote for an impeachment, because we have this backstop, this criminal prosecution, and it seems that many senators relied on that, to voting to acquit. >> it -- i mean look, it, i was -- chief of staff 100 years ago, right. in the clinton administration, during the clinton impeachment, my former boss had an op-ed that ran in the new york times that said, we don't need to

impeach, he could be tried when he is out of office. that's been the, that's been the line. you don't have to impeachment, obviously the trump people argued that as well, we don't need to impeach him, there's a backstop here, it's the court system. and you're on the record, you're on the record. >> caitlin, what are you hearing from trump's team about? >> i don't think today went the way they expected it to go. i mean, i thought that they would go into this thinking that a lot of the arguments would be what trump has been arguing, and what they articulated in their written brief, which was that the actions that he took after the election between then and january six were duties as president, that he was doing this to make sure that the laws of the land, the election laws were faithfully carried. that is their argument, obviously people disagree with that. but that is the argument they had been making, that it wasn't electioneering, that he, as he now said when she was not saying at the time, he knew the election was, over and that's what he was doing in his official duties. it went into a completely different way, they essentially ran into a brick wall with these arguments. not only would -- bruce right there that the judge was referencing, judge pan providing a really

difficult time for trump's attorneys. and i also think i don't think it went the way the trump thought it was going to go, from the optics perspective either, because instead of being this big showcase moment of him going into court and being able to use, which was a purely political decision, i was told. you didn't see him going into court, and instead you saw his attorney kind of getting brow beat by the judges, with these deeply skeptical questions of their arguments. and in trump's brief comments at the hotel afterwards, where he just continued to repeat his election lies, which have been debunked. >> elie, i mean how quickly would an appeals court rule, what are the next steps? >> i think we're going to see within two weeks, they expected this, right. and now after they rule, i think we have to watch for two things to happen. first of all, trump, assuming he loses i think it is quite clear he will, he's got to take this up to the supreme court eventually. but he has a long time to do that. you have 90 days to even ask the supreme court to take the case. and so to head that off, there was a bit at the end today were jack smith's team asked the court of appeals to issue the mandate. and what that means, transmitted to plain english's, send this back on to the district court, the trial court, and let them get back on track.

because remember, they've been on pause ever since this appeal started. so jack smith's team wants to let the district court resume its pre trial preparations. >> and the appeals court can do that? >> yes, they can do that. and we may actually be in the situation where you have two things happening in parallel. you have litigation going into the supreme court and the district court carrying on. but trump's team is going to ask the supreme court to stop the trial. >> jessica, is this something the supreme court would weigh? i mean it, does seem like an important question to answer. >> it's an incredibly important question, and i think that is the strongest reason for the courts take the case. i mean, this is an important legal question, it's never been decided before. on the other hand, i'm sure they wouldn't relish having to get into the middle of this, if they think that the d. c. circuit doesn't cry out for being overturned, maybe they just leave it. but i think a lot of it is going to depend on how this opinion is written, how broad it is in its scope. if it's really broad, and they could make a categorical statement --

presidential immuniity in any circumstances from criminal prosecution, that would be something that the court has to address. if the court is limited in the centrally says there might be in some circumstances but not in the circumstances presented here? or, we are going to reach the question of whether these were official acts or not, maybe the court leaves that -- >> and, kaitlan the former president is going to be in court again thursday on the civil fraud trial. i mean, we've got the iowa caucuses coming up, he is choosing to be here at these court cases. he clearly thinks both from a fundraising standpoint and a political standpoint, that that is where the cameras, are there is a benefit from him being. there >> and they are fundraising off of this today. eric trump was sending out an email from the other fundraising saying my father is in court right now, he is not able to be in iowa. he was choosing to be in the court of, today he is choosing to be here in new york on thursday for those closing arguments in the civil fraud case, as he has chosen to be there many other times. there, will if this does happen, if the supreme court does rule in this, the trial does go forward there will be days where he does not get to choose, where he does have to be there in court. but i do think it speaks to the point where right now, they think this helps them.

but we keep hearing from republicans who are challenging for this nomination, governor ron desantis namely, is that maybe this is help for him in the primary, it's not going to be helpful in the general election. that could be the time where he doesn't actually have the choice, he has to go to court. >> i just want to say real quickly, to point out the delay, the tactical delay. remember, they are up against a september 5th, that is the magic date where you are 90 days out. that's roughly -- >> 60 -- >> the doj guidelines, of when you start this. so the delay, delay, delay, that's a friend for the president. >> -- -- thanks very much. kaitlan's got to be at the top of the hour on the source. coming up next, one woman, a grandmother who believed the former president's voter fraud claims and stormed the capitol. the question tonight as she reports to prison, does she still believe those lies? and later, the latest on the former president -- nikki haley in new hampshire. at least what new cnn polling reveals, ahead.

in his brief statement after court today, the former president refer to a document that he's been reporting lately that he says, proves allegations of voter fraud. it doesn't, the claims in the document are unproven or debunked. it's clear though that three years ago, millions of people did believe such lies. on january six, thousands acted violently on that, and today one of them, a 42-year-old grandmother reported to a federal prison in west virginia, to begin serving a long sentence. donie o'sullivan recently spoke with her about whether she still believes in the lies that turned her into a capitol rioter.

>> how do you feel when you watch this? >> you know, i think, i'm more numb when i look at this stuff. it's like surreal to me. i mean, look how angry i look. >> you'd admit this is a bad look? >> totally. you know how dumb i feel when i look at this picture, like oh my goodness. >> rachael powell, also known as the pink hat lady, is about to begin a five-year prison sentence for her role in the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. she's a mom of eight, and grandmother of six, and she spent most of the last three years under home detention in rural pennsylvania. >> and that's what you expected from an insurrectionist, a terrorist. how did i have time to plan an insurrection when my life is busy like this? making pies, raising babies. >> why did you decide to go to d. c. on january 6th? >> well, how often does a president ask you to come to a rally? it doesn't happen. >> at some point, this goes from peaceful protest to you

having an ice axe in your hands, breaking a window, trying to get into the capital. how did that happen? >> it got violent, and it was violent for a while. and i am completely in pain, and -- >> because you had been hit? >> oh yeah, i have been hit with a baton, i have been grabbed and thrown, i had been sprayed. i mean, my whole body was on fire. i don't think there was rational thinking in my head at that point. and i didn't have an ice ax, that passed through the crowds, they put it in my hands. and it was only in my hands long off to take out that window pane. and yet, i've been charged with a deadly weapon. >> did somebody give you the ice pick? >> yeah. >> who? >> i don't know. >> you don't remember? >> i don't know who they were. i don't know where it came from. i don't know where it went. ? >> i grew up, and i guess you probably did to, being told that if a police officer tells you to do something, you should probably do it.

>> -- >> and that didn't happen that day, of course the police will tell you guys to go away. >> they never actually told us to go away. i never had an officer look at me and say you need to leave, or i'm going to arrest you. >> footage like this of rachel, seen here in the fur hooded coat, pushing against the police line, and messages she posted on social media condoning violence ahead of january 6th, were used by prosecutors to argue that rachel wasn't just a peaceful protester who got caught up in the chaos of the day. >> do you regret that day? >> i regret, i have a lot of remorse for ruining my family's life. i mean, in one day, i destroyed everything. really, for nothing. i don't have remorse for attending protests, i don't have remorse for speaking out and saying that i believed that the election was stolen. i do have remorse for breaking a window and destroying my whole family's life, and for

thinking irrationally, and not realizing like why don't you just sit down at this protest? >> a federal judge convicted rachel on nine counts, including destruction of government property, obstruction of an official proceeding, and engaging in physical violence in a restricted building or grounds. >> i'm sorry, it's like my last weekend before i go in. [crying] i love my children so much, and this is like the last thing they can take from me, that will be the hard part. and i don't deserve this and my kids don't deserve it. like, have we not been through enough? like this is the last thing that we had to lose is each other. >> prosecutors say it rachel showed nothing for contempt but the court, and legal system. you said that you feel dumb, set up.

>> yep. >> duped. >> yep. >> why do you feel duped? >> with january 6th? i cannot prove it was a setup. but i feel like, what if it was. >> rachel isn't alone. a quarter of americans believe the conspiracy theory that the january 6th attack was instigated by the fbi. people watching this might say well, you were duped by trump and everybody around him, and the election wasn't really stolen, and you buying into this has kind of ruined your life. >> do you ever feel a bit pissed off with trump? >> no, absolutely not. i don't, i've had problems with this election process for years and years, 15 years ago, if there would have been protests about election fraud, i would have gone to those. because our whole country, and everything about our lives is determined by voting. >> surely in the last three years, being locked in here, have you ever had a moment where you are like you know,

maybe i'm wrong? maybe biden actually won the election? maybe i am the conspiracy theorist? >> no. not at all. >> she is due to spend the next few years behind bars, but she believes one man could change that. >> so, this hat says, rachel, we love you, trump. three of my sons, they met trump, and you can actually see them, one of the -- trump was a very encouraging to them. he has made it clear he is going to pardon us. >> there is a lot riding on this election. >> totally. >> for the country, but also personally for you? >> oh yeah, for me it's huge. for me it's like life or death. and, it's huge. >> if trump wins, you could get out of prison. >> correct, i will get out of prison. >> it's amazing to me although

it shouldn't be, that she spent three years locked up in her home -- and she continues to believe things that are demonstrably false and just lies. it's pathetic. >> and look. >> amazing she is teaching her children this as well. i mean, i am stunned. >> i mean, what makes rachel's story more so incredible is that she didn't even vote for trump in 2016. she wasn't particularly politically active, she didn't really believe in voting for a while, there was covid, the lockdowns. she said that she started going to anti lockdown protests, that led to stop the steal, and that of course that brought her to january 6th, where look she claims that the axe was placed into her hand, and everything else. and she doesn't view this as an insurrection, clearly -- the court disagrees. but look anderson, i think a lot of our viewers, and i certainly already know from some of our viewers who comment online, ask why, why are we speaking to somebody like rachael powell? the reality is that she is not alone.

>> i find it informative to hear from her. i mean, it's telling about a mentality and a psychology of some people who are supporting the former president, and why. >> yeah, and the falsehoods about the election are believed by tens of millions of americans. and now of course, you even see the conspiracy theories about the day itself. >> right, her whole being duped thing. i mean, it's fascinating, thank you. just ahead, presidential politics, can nikki haley close the gap in new hampshire with the former president, new cnn poll numbers, and john king at the magic wall with all the details, next.

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one night before say and and hosts the last presidential debate before monday's iowa caucus, is nikki haley who's in the suburbs of des moines, telling a crowd today that everything, quote, has come to this moment. haley, having a moment of her own, as a new cnn poll suggest she has cut the former presidents most daunting lead new hampshire to single digits. that primary comes eight days, of course, after iowa. john king joins us now with the magic wall with the numbers. so, how much has haley gained on the former president in new hampshire? >> the numbers are stunning anderson. let me flip this up and show you. new hampshire, you mention iowa first, next monday we count the votes in iowa. two weeks from tonight, we count the votes here in new

hampshire. remember and back in 2016, this was trump's first win. this was at the beginning of the path to the nomination for donald trump, new hampshire was kind to donald trump so look at these new numbers in this poll and it is quite striking when you see it. nikki haley within seven points, 39% for the former president, 32% for the former south carolina governor. chris christie, a distant third, ramaswamy running fourth, ron desantis and low single digits. and, fifth asa hutchison is brilliant just and asterisk in this poll. but think about that, she is within seven points in this poll, so iowa will send -- her on to new hampshire. one quick point, anderson. and we said this all the time. but in new hampshire set specially, the composition of the electorate two weeks from tonight, excuse me for turning my back, we will be absolutely critical. in new hampshire, democrats, independents, they're undeclared voters that could show up on election day, essentially declare yourself a republican for the day and vote in republican primary. if it's a conservative electorate, trump will win. among conservatives, he is up over haley by 40 points. among registered republicans,

he beats haley by 37 points. among voters with no college degrees, we know that the trump base, he is up by 17 points. but look at this. among moderates, haley beats trump by 42 points. among undeclared voters, meaning independents, by 26 points. among those with a college degree, 12 points. so who shows up, the full composition of the electorate in new hampshire is going to go a long way to say whether nikki haley can come close or conceivably even beat donald trump. >> and iowa caucuses are six days away, what is the state of play there? >> all right, so let's go back to that, let's go back to 2024, and just bring iowa up on the map. because again, monday night, we start doing this. the candidates are listed in alphabetical order, we actually get to stop talk about this and start counting votes, as we get through it. look, this is where trump has had, in the polling, a formidable lead for sometime. again, excuse me for turning my back but i just want to stretch this out. that lost i oppose was a month ago -- five months ago, he was at 42%.

so donald trump, a pretty straight line strong support above 50% in the iowa pole. i've been on the ground in iowa, some people don't question this, but nikki haley is a distant second there. i mean, a distant third, desantis there. so at the moment, if the data is correct, trump gets a big first win. there are people on the ground in iowa who say they think they can get him under 50%. >> is there a path forward for desantis without a strong showing in iowa? >> so remember, joe biden lost the first three contests in 2020. he lost iowa, new hampshire, and nevada. he is president of the united states. so we should never say no. but in the context of the republican primary, ron desantis, what was his calling card? i am trump without the chaos. if trump is beating him, and nikki haley is beating him, coming out of iowa, it gets pretty hard. he says he's in this, he says he's not getting out. but if haley can beat desantis in iowa, then the question, anderson, there could be a lot of pressure on desantis, christie, and others to get out and give haley a clear shot at --

>> i want to bring in a longtime democratic strategist --. james, at this point, you think anyone has a real shot at the feet of the former president in the primaries? >> not much. and i mean, he is exactly right about new hampshire. remember, independents -- very hard -- and the other thing is, iowa i think is eight days before new hampshire. that's got to have some effect on the new hampshire numbers. how much, i don't know. and he is right, never say no. but when it comes to ron desantis, i'm just going to say no. >> and james, is desantis at play still, in your mind? i mean the latest cnn polling has him behind christie and vivek ramaswamy in new hampshire. >> yeah, but of course i am the guy who said i didn't think trump was going to be the republican nominee, so be careful with my predicting skills. i'm somewhat rusty these days. [laughter] but, remember, john will tell you this. when they go to south carolina, independents can't vote. and that's nikki haley's state, it's pretty clear that trump will beat her, and then she'll have to make a case beyond that, which is going to be i think pretty difficult. >> john, ambassador haley has

not only been making gains in new hampshire, she also had a full crowd at her commit to caucus event today in iowa, despite a pretty big snowstorm. does that indicate anything to you? >> well, it indicates that people are at least interested. james know this, and it's good to see my old friend, it's been a long time. people show up there, sometimes you can't make it through the crowd. sometimes people show up for events who just want to see the candidates. but i just highlighted right here these suburban counties. the gray you, see the darker gray, that lighter gray excuse me of suburban counties in iowa. we know the suburbs are donald from his kryptonite, they have been. he beat hillary clinton in the suburbs in 2016, but since then, that's been his kryptonite. again in new hampshire, james made the point that independents, moderates, do they show up for republican primary? if so, it probably helps haley. who shows up in iowa? more than 60,000 people have moved to the des moines suburb since the 2016 race. right, they are not all republicans, but are those who are republicans show up? you see the suburbs around sioux city, around cedar falls, around -- that's where haley has a chance to beat trump, that would be an earthquake. but to come out maybe surprisingly close, it is mathematically possible.

the flip side of that is across the top up here, across the bottom down here, those are the evangelical rural counties that ted cruz actually beat donald trump in 2016. trump is expected to run it up there. if desantis is going to surprise us, that's where that will come. among homeschoolers, among evangelicals. there is no evidence of that at the moment in any real strong sustained way. but again right now, we are in the pre-game, when we see who actually shows up monday in iowa and then two weeks from tonight in new hampshire that will tell us a lot about which republicans are deciding to come out, especially if the weather is bad. because they want to make a statement about who leads their party. >> and james, -- the former presidents efforts to overturn the election the centerpiece of his reelection campaign. is that a smart strategy, in your mind? >> well, -- i mean, if he did bidenomics, and he did. [inaudible] and i mean i don't have a problem at all. but what i'm going to do is take this opportunity to make a

for them fool of myself, and predict that trump will underperform expectations in iowa. i think the opposition to -- i don't know i know very little about republican primary caucus voters in iowa. but they seem to me to be pretty well organized, and pretty committed. and look it's gonna be -- zero degrees and i'm just go out there and say i think, i don't not saying he's going to lose, but he might not win by as much as it is expected. >> james carville, john king as well, thanks very much. again, the last debate ahead of the ohio caucuses tomorrow here on cnn. a showdown between two candidates, nikki haley and ron desantis. cnn's jake tapper, dana bash going to moderate tomorrow night's event, which kicks off at nine pm eastern. still ahead, take a look at this chunk of a boeing plane landed in our next guest's backyard. it is the piece that blew out of the alaska airlines plane midflight, that forced entire line of boeing planes grounded.

breaking news to report, a

source at boeing kelce in the during an all hands mean today, a factory that produces it 737 max nine, the ceo of the company acknowledged a mistake in the plane's assembly process. it's unclear if he identified a specific mistake and that manufacturing process. the mission comes four days after boeing 737 max 9, flown -- lost a chunk of the cabin mid flight, -- leaving a door-sized hole in the plane, forcing emergency landing. 171 of the same models were soon grounded. since, then united airlines says it found loose bolts from that same panel -- in some of its own 737 max nines. now the ntsb, which is leading the investigation into how all this four happened, said this weekend that the door plug was found in the backyard of a man named bob sour. a science teacher who lives in the suburbs of portland oregon. and bob joins me now. thank you so much for being with us. i mean, as a science teacher, this is kind of right up your alley. it's fascinating and amazing that you found it. and it shows what a good citizen you are that you, and all of your neighbors in your community went out looking for

these pieces. what made you decide to go out and look in that spot? >> well, i hadn't intended to. i knew that the piece was some are around portland, but didn't figure it was near me. but a friend of mine called me and said maybe i should check my yard, because the search was focusing in my area. and when i went out to look for it, in fact, there it was. >> and it was up in a tree, is that right? >> well it had fallen through a tree and made it through the ground, but the tree helped break its fall so that when it got down, the fall didn't seem to have damaged it. >> did you know right away what you are looking at? >> i knew pretty quickly. and it was night when i found, it was very dark in my backyard. and you can see, there are some big trees back there. and so i have my flashlight out. and, it was the opposite side of the door that i could see from -- the exterior paint on it. so it was quite, quite reflective in the dark. so i could see it right away, and i very quickly figure out what it was. >> what was the reaction from

the ntsb when you contacted them? >> well, the chair had just finished giving a press briefing. she was so excited she ran back in to tell the journalists who were still there about it. and she only announced me as bob from portland, a teacher from portland. but people very quickly figured out i was the bob. and they actually came, they are still here in portland, they came and talked to my classes and some other students at my school today. >> oh, that's cool. >> and they were very outgoing and friendly. >> how old are your students? >> i teach high school. >> oh, that's so cool, what an incredible, i mean just an educational opportunity this is. bob sauer, thank you so much, it's lovely to talk to you. >> you're welcome. >> thank you. >> i wish you the best. coming up for the new episode of my podcast, all there is, i had a remarkable conversation the other day with actress, author, activists ashley judd, whose mother the

country music star naomi judd who died by suicide in 2022. ashley speaks about the grief and trauma she experience, after finding her mom, and what she said her at the end.

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we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> tomorrow morning a new episode of my podcast on grieving called all there is is being released. it's very moving, an intimate conversation with actor, author and activist ashley judd about the death of her mom, naomi judd by suicide in 2022. ashley found her mom and speaks to the ripple effects that suicide can have the family. take a look. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> on april 11, 2022, naomi jud and her daughter winona, one of

the biggest country music. duos of all-time performed at the country music television awards. the song, co-written by naomi, who was love can build a bridge. this was naomi jud's last performance. she died 19 days later by suicide. her daughter ashley, actress author and mental health advocate first spoke about in this interview just 12 days later. >> we don't want to be a part of the gossip economy. i will share with you that she used a weapon. mother used a firearm. >> ashleley judd has never spokn about ththis death andnd the tra anand grief f she has s bebeen g with untilil now. i sat downwn with her r a few ds ago o for my pododcast all there isis. > my motherer's death w was trauaumatic unexexpected bececat was dedeath by suiuicide. and i fofound her mymy grief wan lockststep with trtrauma becauaf

the mamanner of heher death ande factct that i fofound her. i heheld my mothther as she e ws dyining and therere was blood ai neneeded to prprocess the e fact i wawas with my y momother's bl. i'm so glalad i was there, because even when i i walked ino thatat room and i saw thatat she had harmeded herself. the first t thing out t of my mh was s mama, i see how mumuch yoe bebeen sufferiring. > you said d that you a are? >> and it't's okay. it is s okay to gogo. it's okay y to go. i am h here. itit is okay t to let go.. i love you, go see your daddy gogo be with y your peoplele. > and she h heard you?? >> s she heard m me. > i got in n the bed wiwith r anand held herer and talk k to r

and said, , let it allll go, bee freeee, all was s forgiven l log ago. all was foforgiven lonong ago jt leavave it all h here e take nog wiwith each bebe free. >> that't's a blessising that yu arare able to o do that. > i'm so ththankful thahat is there. >> one of the reasons i to talkk withth a ashley for r my podcasi ststill struggggle with my brots suicide. one e of the thihings that.. sorrrry. >> i i'm here ananderson. >> one of f the thingsgs that i have fouound so hardrd about -- one of t the things s i found so hard a about losing g my brotheo

susuicide was s a, the --- i get stuck in how his life enended. the violence of it. he killed hihimself in f front f my momom. and, also o the realizization t, and my shohock over, t the rerealization ththat i didn'n't rereally know w him. i'm wonderering if thehe mannerf yourur mom's deaeath made yoyou question -- how much y you knew heher? >> thahank you so o much for shsharing that.. >> all ourur stories a are sacr. anand d i really h honor thehe n you u that that's coming from. and i think we all deserve to be remembered for how we live, and how we die is simply part of a bigger story.

>> my conversation with ashley judd about grief, trauma, and how her mother's spirit is still very much alive in her life is available wednesday, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> and if you or someone you love is struggling, please text lifeline at 988. a new episode of all there is, featuring my full conversation with ashley judd comes out tomorrow morning. you can find on apple podcasts or spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. just ahead, new information on why the secretary of defense checked in the hospital on new year's day without telling the white house until days later.

-- secretary austin was great method to the hospital on new years day after having minimally invasive surgery, december 22nd. doctors found a buildup of fluid improving the function of this moment distance according

the national cancer institute one in eight american men's will be diagnosed with prostate cancer in their lifetime. the disease is riskier in black men. asked what the white house, no one was made aware of this? that is under investigation. that is it for us, the news continues. the source with kaitlan collins starts now. >> tonight, straight from the source historic showdown of the central question in jack smith 's case. does a president have sweeping immunity from criminal prosecution on anything they did while in office? a deeply skeptical court turned over a hypothetical question about whether they could order seal team six to assassinate a political rival. also, tonight we now know why defense secretary lloyd austin has been in the hospital for the last week. president biden himself just learning today. the pentagon chief underwent surgery after being diagnosed with cancer. as we also learned, he was