"cnn this morning" continues right now. >> we're going to maximize every opportunity we have between now and caucus night to get the job done. >> cnn hosting the last republican presidential debate. >> don't complain about what happens in a general election if you don't play in this caucus. >> taking his campaign to court makes the polls go up. >> chris christie can't exist anymore if your goal is to get rid of donald trump. flooding, high winds and power outages. tens of millions of americans under the threat of severe weather. >> sustained winds with gusts that will be over 70 miles an hour. when you get over 70, it's a very dangerous situation. >> we're preparing for the worst. as a president, you have to have immunity. simple. >> donald trump making his case in court and not ruling out violence if his cases move ahead. the president orders murder and cannot be prosecuted. they've sort of invented this argument. >> even if trump loses on the merits he may win on the tactics. >> what could stand between him and the presidency is this case.

good wednesday morning. it's top of the hour. i'm phil mattingly with poppy harlow in new york. for the first time nikki haley and ron desantis will be going head to head alone on a debate stage tonight right here on cnn. this will be one of their final chances to shift the dynamics of the race just five days left until the iowa caucuses. donald trump, of course, still the clear favorite. right now, nikki haley is riding a wave of momentum after a new cnn poll showed her closing the giant gap with trump in new hampshire and cutting his lead to single digits. >> we have been waiting for this. i've done 150-plus town halls, and it has come to this moment. don't complain about what happens in a general election if you don't play in this caucus. it matters. >> meanwhile ron desantis has been sharpening his attacks against haley on the campaign trail in iowa. last night, he pointed to the recent gaffes she's made like failing to mention slavery as the cause of the civil war.

>> >> she had a period where media was fluffing her. now she's in a period she's getting scrutiny of and it's like almost every day she answers questions, something happens where she's putting her foot in her mouth. >> with us now cnn political commentator former obama adviser david axelrod and former communications director for the rnc doug heye, ranked communications for the 2012 republican iowa caucuses. david, let me start with you, what does nikki haley need to do tonight on the stage? >> well, look, nikki haley has used these debates to vault herself into this race. she literally has profited from this debate and brought donors a lot of them, from ron desantis over to her corner. she's gained in the polls, so in some ways she has to keep doing what she's doing. she's been a great performer in

these debates. i think she has to do a little bit more. she needs to beat ron desantis in this race for second place and to get the momentum she wants going into new hampshire. she'll go to new hampshire regardless. while her focus may be on trump, you can't forget desantis when he's standing next to her on the stage, and he has to draw -- she has to draw him into the equation. she says trump is all about chaos, but desantis in many ways has emulated trump in his handling of politics and government in florida and she might want to weave him into the narrative a little bit and make herself the person who can take us beyond chaos, conflict, to a more cooperative environment in which things actually get done. >> doug, if nikki haley does beat ron desantis or come in second place and ron desantis comes in third in iowa, i assume would be the death nail for ron desantis' campaign. what does he have to do tonight? >> he has to beat nikki haley and demonstrate he is somebody

who can win in november. what's interesting about tonight we have two candidates on stage who have different audiences. ron desantis' audience is all about iowa, doesn't matter about new hampshire. he has to do well and come in second and communicate not just to the trump leaning voters but also suburban voters outside of des moines. i'm looking at at ankaeny outside of des moines. he has to do well there. nikki haley has two audiences and why her comment about iowa is not necessarily a gaffe. if she does well in iowa, her second audience is new hampshire. when she leaves iowa going into new hampshire, she will, she can say if she comes in third, it is your job to correct what iowa did here. she can move forward regardless, but both of them, not only have to win tonight, but also demonstrate that they're better candidates than donald trump is. that's hard for both because they've sort of resisted being able to do so. >> they really have, which has been fascinating. trump getting more support from the republican establishment. we saw the numbers in the

senate, john brasso got behind him last night. he is gaining momentum there, money, fundraising, huge numbers every time he makes a court appearance >> court appearances for donald trump are campaign appearances essentially. if he's not doug a rally in des moines or in manchester because he's at a courthouse, that for him is a campaign event. he uses those within the primary to his advantage. it's why nikki haley says there's a difference between the primary and the general. exactly that. it speaks to the general election chaos argument of nikki haley, but for donald trump, it's about pushing desantis out, pushing haley out, because what we see with political momentum is it's very much of what have you done for me lately, which is why tonight is important for both of these candidates who will be on stage. >> david, i don't know if you heard doug's flex about his favorite caucus site f you have one, feel free to fire back on that front. i think what's interesting, though, another rare thing that will be happening this week, donald trump is going to iowa and he will be in iowa today and

tomorrow as well. i've never seen this, like he's not in iowa. desantis hits all 99 counties, nikki haley, even though new hampshire is the primary state for her, she's in iowa regularly. vivek ramaswamy, up and down. trump rarely goes, sends other people instead. why? >> well, look, iowa is, for trump, a big win here is really important because he does face some peril in new hampshire, and, you know, i think trump's great opponent here is expectations. he's going to win in iowa. the question is, what is the margin? all of them have to be thinking about that zero degree temperature night when the caucuses take place. it's not like an election, you have to pull people out, they have to come to a location and spend a great deal of time listening to people speak before they cast their ballots and so on. it's an organizational task. trump's folks are out in the

suburbs -- are out in the rural areas, his base. there are reasons for trump to be concerned about turnout complacency, the weather, and so he is doing what is unnatural to him, which is to spend a concentrated period of time in this place to try and meet his own -- meet the expectations that have been set for him in this caucus so that he goes into new hampshire without questions being raised about his strength. >> david, as someone who has advised candidates in tight battles, i wonder what that ma margin is. we hear trump has to have a big lead. what are the numbers to you that would be a big nikki haley surprise or even if it's second, and what does ron desantis need to hit in terms of the spread? >> well look, i think if desantis doesn't finish second, he's on his way back to

tallahassee on the next flight out. he has to finish second here. he really started out with the premise he was going to win here. now just to go on, he has to finish second. for nikki haley, i think any second place finish will be a momentum builder for her. she's already way in the hunt in new hampshire and that would be a bonus to finish second here in new hampshire. third would not be as good, but she still moves on. desantis won't. for trump, i think he has to have a solid double-digit victim here, closer to 20 than 10. any kind of single digit it victim he victory here would be a defeat and create nor questions about him going into new hampshire which our own poll shows is tightening up quickly. >> very tight. >> can you explain the expectations game? like it does matter missing, flying underneath them is problematic and it's like this

amorphous thing. who decides what the expectations are? >> everybody. that's the challenge for politics. it's a different business than anything else we know. you can come in a strong third place or a weak second or first place. it's not like football playoffs or the ncaas where you win and advance. what we've seen is this is where debates and momentum can cause a shift. we talked about nikki momentum. in november. it wasn't true. back in december it wasn't true. what we've seen in the past two or three weeks is a surge in her fundraising and poll numbers especially in new hampshire. that means she has to answer not just more scrutiny questions, but questions can she handle the incoming from donald trump and also the incoming from chris christie. that's happening more and more. >> david axelrod and doug, thank you go ahead. >> i was just going to say, she has money, she has momentum. what she doesn't have is

organization here to the degree that the others do, and the question is on a cold night, will her folks come out? i think that will determine just how well she does here. >> maybe she should deliver parkas and snow boots. >> ankaeny 10. >> anyone who pronounces ankaeny correctly knows iowa. i appreciate that. thank you very much. don't miss tonight 9:00 p.m. eastern, jake tapper and dana bash moderates the republican debate from iowa. there are concerns up and down the east coast about high winds and potential flooding this morning after a dangerous storm system brought heavy rain boosting river levels and triggered power outages. multiple people pulled from their vehicles in maryland. at last check more than 600 u.s. flights have been canceled today. >> all of this unfolding as storm ravaged florida begins to clean up from more storm damage. it is believed at least a dozen tornados carved a path of destruction right along the florida panhandle.

meteorologist derek van dam joins us live from panama city, florida. what happened there is just stunning. >> reporter: yeah. 12 in the panhandle, but nearly two dozen tornados overall. look what happened to this truck as a water spout turned tornado moved onshore here in panama city beach. it looks like there was a can opener taking the metal and peeling it back. the pressure of the wind blowing out the driver's side window of this particular truck as well, and then, of course, this home behind me that's a living room or what used to be a living room. you can see the people's couch, even the staircase leading up to the second floor of this home, just left in shambles. unfortunately we are in this very hyperactive weather pattern across the united states and mother nature just throwing everything she has at us and the results have been unfortunately horrendous, which you can see behind us. you know, this is part of a

broader storm that just ravaged the southeast with nearly 300 severe wind gusts, hurricane force across some portionses of north carolina, and then not to mention the destruction from the tornados. right now we have over a half a million people that are without power as we speak across the entire eastern seaboard. that's customers. that's not necessarily people. there could be several people to a household. winds will be concerning across the eastern seaboard where we could see gusts over 50 miles per hour. that is a major factor with this storm because there's so much pent up energy mixed down to the surface. the good news, the flooding rains we had overnight moving offshore, but we still have our flood concerns along the coastline and we want to give you a head's up on this, poppy and phil. we have another severe weather potential outbreak for friday and saturday across this same area in the southeastern u.s. yeah, very, very difficult next couple days ahead of us again. >> all right. derek van dam, thank you. so donald trump's legal team

suggesting that even a president who had a political rival assassinated could still be immune from criminal prosecution. and the ceo of boeing acknowledging a mistake was made after part of a plane blew off on friday. the latest on that investigation ahead.

i think they feel this is the way they're going to try to win, and that's not the way it goes. it will be bedlam in the country. it's a very bad thing. >> a warning from the former president about what is to come if he is prosecuted for trying to overturn the 2020 election. his legal team arguing in a d.c. federal appellate court yesterday that case should be dismissed entirely on the grounds of presidential immunity and that a president can only face criminal prosecution if he is impeached and convicted first by congress, even hypothetically for things like assassinating political rivals. >> i ask you a yes or no question, could a president who ordered seal team 6 to

assassinate a political rival, who is not impeached, could he be subject to criminal prosecution? >> if he were impeached and convicted first -- >> so your answer is no? >> my answer is qualified yes. there is a political process that would have to occur under our constitution. >> a jarring moment but also kind of an ironic one. if you recall trump's own lawyers argued during his second impeachment trial he could be criminally charged after leaving office. >> we have a judicial process in this country, we have executive -- an investigative process in this country, to which no former office holder is immune. that's the process that should be running its course. >> and it was an effective argument. we know that because several senate republicans voted to acquit based on that reasoning. >> we have a criminal justice system in this country, we have civil litigation, and former presidents are not immune from

being accountable by either one. >> jack smith's legal team called the trump team's argument frightening. >> if, as i understood my friend on the other side to say here, a president orders his seal team to assassinate a political rival and resigns, for example, before an impeachment, not a criminal act. the president sells a pardon, resigns, or is not impeached, not a crime. i think that is extraordinarily frightening future. >> whereas trump's lawyers argued allowing a president to be prosecuted for actions taken while in office would open up a pandora's box. >> the notion criminal immunity for a president is a shocking holding and would authorize the indictment of president biden in the western district of texas after he leaves office for mismanaging the border allegedly. >> let's talk about this with retired u.s. district judge for the southern districts of new york judge cher shenlin.

would trump's team have sold you on their immunity claim? >> absolutely not. the district judge got it entirely right. i read her decision. it's brilliant, well reasoned, well written, and it's correct. >> it's interesting when you listen to the arguments the idea of impeachment and conviction being required beforehand, wasn't a focal point of the briefs that were filed by trump's team. it was a piece of it, but it wasn't entirely. why do you think they decided to go that route to focus on that? >> i think they thought that text the constitutional amendment would be a winner for them, but as judge chutkan wrote, if you read the constitutional section carefully, it's just the opposite of what the trump lawyers argued. it's just not. it has two clauses, and the second clause says nevertheless you can have a criminal prosecution, and that's what those senators said when they didn't convict him on impeachment. >> can we talk about that a little bit more.

this came up a lot in the s hearing yesterday the impeachment judgment clause. i think that was foreign to a lot of americans until the last 24 hours. explain how central of a role it plays here now that they've gone this direction. >> the only reason it's central at all is that trump's lawyers tried to rely on that clause for their argument. >> you think they misread it? >> totally. the clause simply says, here's the remedies on impeachment. it's limited to removal from office and disqualification from office. that's all it is. then it says, nevertheless you can be prosecuted criminally. that's really what happened here. there's nothing in that clause that says unless you're convicted -- >> that's the bridge there was a striking to me, that they tried to argue, that that clause then they could infer from it that it meant, you know, but if you're not, then you can't? >> right. that's trying to read something into the clause that simply is not there. what the judge picked up on in the district court was the word nevertheless. she said, that means that

despite whatever happens on the impeachment side, there's still room and should be, for a criminal prosecution, as those senators said when they acquitted him. >> we don't know what the judges are going to do, but you can -- your face is getting at what i'm going for here -- it's a read the tea leaves moment. this one seems pretty clear where this was headed? >> it's more than fair. sometimes when you watch an appellate argument you can't predict. the judges are stone faced and you can't tell from their questions. this was very apparent. there's no way they're going to reverse. the only question here is whether for some reason they decide they don't have the jurisdiction to decide this now and it should be decided after the trial is over. but i don't think they're going to go that way. they're considering it. it's clear to me, particularly judge henderson, is considering that. she needs two votes, of course. i don't see that happening. >> we heard trump's attorney making the argument, john sauer,

say at the end, in closing after his rebuttal, we want to make sure that if we don't prevail here, that this is heard meaning at all the appellate judges or the supreme court. >> the supreme court does not have to take it, and i'm -- i'm getting to believe that they won't take it. >> tell us why. >> it's not the right case to take for this important issue. it's too obvious here. they need a closer case, i think, to make important law like this. this one is so open and shut. i mean, these weren't even part offist his official duties. i don't think it's the right case for the supreme court to take and they might not do it. with respect to enbank if he that it's for delay. if he moves for enbank reconsideration, it's simply to run the clock. it's not going to change the outcome here >> judge, thank you. >> as always.

overnight the u.s. navy shot down 21 houthi missiles and drones launched from yemen in one of the largest houthi attacks in the red sea in months. also defense secretary lloyd austin revealing he has been diagnosed with prostate cancer. our dr. sanjay gupta is with us to explain the diagnosis, and its impact, particularly on black men. the

. nobody at the white house knew that secretary austin had prostate cancer until this morning and the president was informed immediately after. >> national security spokesman john kirby yesterday disclosing new information about the secrecy of defense secretary lloyd austin's hospitalization. according to the pentagon austin had been treated at the hospital on december 22nd for prostate cancer. later re-admitted on january 1st due to complications from that surgery. >> the president was not informed of austin's hospitalization for three days, and as you just heard from john kirby, the president didn't even know about the cancer until yesterday. this morning we are learning that senior white house officials had to push the

pentagon to release a statement on austin's hospitalization after learning of his status on thursday. we are joined by our chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta with much more about this diagnosis and what it means for lloyd austin, someone so crucial in the government. walk us through his surgery and complications, what we know? >> yeah. good morning, guys. so secretary austin is 70 years old. sounds like he was having screenings for prostate cancer, and on a routine screening, meaning he did not have symptoms or something, but just a screening, they found evidence of prostate cancer. that was in earl december. it sounds like it was early prostate cancer, meaning it was not particularly aggressive or had not spread at that point. they decided at that point to do an operation, and they scheduled it three days before christmas. over the holidays, probably with the expectation that he would have the operation, it would go well, he would go home the next day, which is exactly how things started to go with him.

but then he goes home, and this is now over the christmas sort of time period, and he has these complications. he starts to have significant pain in his abdomen and hip and leg, and eventually gets that checked out, goes back into the hospital, we're talking about new year's day now, and at first they diagnose a urinary tract infection, but realize this is more serious than that. he goes to the intensive care unit. they determine he also has these collections of fluid in his abdomen that sort of is causing problems with his gut. they put a tube into his stomach. all of this is not using general anesthesia, but it was probably a very uncomfortable time for him over those several days, and eventually he was able to resume his duties on january 5th. it was supposed to be a one or two-day sort of thing in the hospital, recover at home, but it turned into a much more

prolonged sort of thing because of the complications that he had. >> jake, the complications themselves, are they common for somebody undergoing a surgery like this or a rarity? >> well, i would say they are known complications, but pretty rare. you know, just 1 or 2%, less than 5% of the time this happens. think of it like this, phil, when you're operating really anywhere on the body, the possibility of infection and bleeding is always there. when you're doing prose tech thome, removing the prostate, what the secretary had done, you can get fluid that is leaking from around that area where the operation was done, that can lead to infection. the fluid can also accumulate in your abdomen. if you have fluid in the abdomen pushing on the outside of your intestines, for example, your intestines do not like that and will become paralyzed, so you're just not moving your intestines anymore, and that's why you have to have this tube placed into your stomach. you have to drain the fluid in

your stomach, but you also have to put these tubes into the abdomen to drain that fluid as well. that's the infected fluid. it's a process. a few percent of the time it happens. known but not common. >> what about long-term recovery prospects here? >> yeah. you know, it should be really good, poppy. you know, the thing is that if you catch these types of cancers early, the prognosis is really good. this may sound counterintuitive, but if you do an operation, that basically means hey, look, we think this thing is localized and we don't think it's spread and we think we can get it. having done an operation is actually a good sign in the sense of his overall prognosis. take a look at the numbers. prostate cancer is a common cancer among men. one in eight men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer. one in 41 will die. when it comes to black men, for all sorts of different reasons, the numbers are much higher even. so close to two times more likely to be diagnosed.

1.7 times more likely to be diagnosed and 2.1 times more likely to die. so for all sorts of different reasons from genetics to the fact that screenings aren't done as often in black men, all sorts of different reasons, the numbers are higher. but for secretary austin, given that it sounds like he was an early prostate cancer, besides the complication, it sounds like the operation went well, meaning they got the cancer out. the prognosis should be good. >> dr. sanjay gupta, appreciate it. thanks. so the ceo of boeing owning up to mistakes, that's a word he used, that the company made. this announcement to all of their employees, coming after part of one of their planes blew off mid flight. the woman leading this investigation joins us next.

this, number one, acknowledging our mistake. we're going to approach it with 100% and complete transparency every step of the way. >> that is boeing ceo acknowledging errors by the company after part of a boeing

alaska airlines plane flew off mid-flight. during a safety meeting on tuesday, dave calhoun addressed all of boeing's employees, the first time we've heard him speak publicly since the terrifying incident involving one of their 737 max 9 jets. calhoun describing the moment he saw the image of the hole for the first time. >> i didn't know what happened to whoever was supposed to be in that seat next to that hole in the airplane. i got kids, i got grandkids, and so do you. this stuff matters. everything matters. every detail matters. >> this comes as investigators have turned their attention to the four bolts designed to hold the part that ripped off in place. the ntsb stating that they cannot say for sure if the bolts were ever there to begin with. joining us now is the chair of the national transportation safety board, jennifer homedy. thank you very much for being with us. it is not clear yet what the

mistake is that dave calhoun is talk about and i wonder if you know, does the ntsb know? >> i have a lot of questions on that statement. we don't know. we've been very focused on the door plug and on the surrounding structure, so i did ask for clarification, but i haven't received anything yet. >> have you talked to the ceo of boeing? >> i have not. >> what are your questions for him after hearing what he said yesterday? >> well, he stated that mistakes were made, and i would like to understand what mistakes he's referring to. >> isn't it crucial for your investigation to get answers and to know what that means? >> absolutely. >> okay. >> yes, absolutely. it's crucial for the investigation. >> has the ntsb reached out to boeing to speak with him about that? >> i haven't reached out to him. we do have several

representatives and engineers from boeing's team here in portland that is helping us gather some of the technical information we need to continue our investigation, and that's really what's important right now. we know what broke. we need to understand how it broke. >> and why. >> what's critical there -- go ahead. >> go ahead. go ahead. >> what's critical there is, once we know how, that helps inform the faa and others that they're really targeting the right concerns when they're doing the inspections and conducting repairs, but they really need that information be on how this occurred before they can take actions to unground the planes. at least that's what i would urge. >> let's talk about the four bolts because your team had said that those four bolts that hold that door plug in place and keep

it from moving off its stops were missing. my question to you this morning is, has your team determined if the door plug bolts were never installed? >> well, we don't know yet that they were missing. we know that there's a fracture on the top of the door plug, on the components that kept the door plug in place, but there are bolts that go there and so we don't know if the bolts broke, we don't know if the bolts weren't there in the first place, so when we take that door plug back to our laboratories, we're going to look at it in a microscope and figure out were there bolts here in the first place. if there were not, then we have even more questions. >> one of the other stunning things that you and i talked about when you joined us on monday is that during all this depressurization, the cockpit door just flew open and that's not in the manual for the pilots.

they didn't know that could happen. we all know after 9/11 how secure those doors were supposed to be. but one thing you said struck me. you said that's more a feature than a flaw of this plane. meaning, it's not in their manuals, it's meant to happen. does that need to change? does something significant need to change on that front for these planes? >> well, you can't have a flight crew that doesn't know what's expected in an emergency, so the pilot and the flight -- the flight attendants, first officer, no one knew that cockpit door could fly open during rapid decompression. we still have some questions about the manufacturer of that, the design of that, and why they designed it to open during rapid decompression. we're still pursuing some questions in that area, but you can't have a situation when there's an emergency and

people -- and the flight crew be surprised when something like that happens. they have to be able to anticipate those things, and what happened in this case, the door flew open, a flight attendant got injured. she was trying to get the door closed. it was very loud. it was very windy inside the cockpit. headsets came off. the first officer's partially came off. the captain. and they had very difficult time communicating with each other, with the flight attendants and air traffic control because it was so loud. >> one of those headsets actually flew out of that hole in the plane, which is just stunning. should max 9s be flying anywhere in the world until all of those questions are answered, both on that cockpit door and these bolts and that doorstop? >> well, that's a decision by the federal aviation administration, and i'm very thankful that they took swift

and decisive action to ground the max 9s. i would recommend that they not put those back in service until they absolutely know how this occurred. that will tell them what inspections need to take place and what repairs need to take place. >> jennifer, thank you very much. jennifer homedy. good luck with the continued investigation. >> thank you so much, poppy. >> sure. as president biden looks to win over voters our next guest suggests digging into the populace progressive playbook the president and his team used in 2020 might be the answer. stay with us.

we have an economy that's so fragile. when there's a crash, i hope it's going to be during this

next 12 months because i don't want to be herbert hoover. the one president, i just don't want to be herber hoover. >> former president trump pushing his campaign message that bidenomics is a bust. republicans say biden embraced a progressive priorities during the 2020 campaign is to blame. those in biden ease own party, especially those in the progressive wing, are trying to convince voters bidenomics work and the work over the past four years will continue helping the middle class. >> our next guest published a book detailing how the financial crisis fueled the rise of the populace moment on the less and how elizabeth warner, bernie sanders, and alexandria ocasio-cortez, and writes when a candidate locks up his position they appeal to the center to the broadest group of voters. after biden won he turned to the left and felt he had to. joining us is joshua green national correspondent for

business-week, i'm glad to see you're doing good things with your life, josh. this is a fascinating book because it tells the story i think maybe some people who will watch the policy or the administration or watch the campaign know, but more broadly, i think is misunderstood, from a progressive standpoint, has joe biden been a progressive president up to this point? >> i think ironically or maybe >> the book tells the story of the rise of the democratic politics and in my thesis really generated from the 2008 financial crisis and the aftermath gave rise to outsider politicians like warren, bernie sanders, like alexandria ocasio-cortez. but one of the things that happened since then, that brand of politics is filtered into mainstream democratic politics and i think president biden is a key figure because one of the reasons this populist movement came up is frustration in the dissatisfaction with the government's response to the last crisis.

of course biden was in the white house with barack obama then. so when he was elected in 2020, he happened to land in the middle of another big financial crash, the covid crash, and instituted a much more robust middle class focused response effort that really owed a lot to these lee characters and the rise of that brand of populist economic policy. >> and interesting to that point you write about in the fact it wasn't warren that put him over the finish line. it took a nonthreatening democrat to bring the populist agenda into being. can he still claim to being a moderate? >> i think he can. he doesn't code as a president radical. i think one of the things that stopped warren and sanders were too many people were scared of the idea that they are too far left, they are too radical. but biden is the furthest thing from a radical. he was able to take up a lot of policies and get them impl

imple implemented. so if i look at his policies today, industrial policy bringing jobs back, the big stimulus after covid, he even came out in the state of the union address last year and proposed a billionaire's tax. this is pretty progressive. but at the same time, i don't think that he has lost the kind of centrist normy politician bearing that got him elected in 2020. i think the challenge to biden, he's got now a really positive rise in set of economic number, but they have not yet translated into positive polling numbers. >> befuddling to them and a lot of people. >> and it is not just that they have positive -- it has defied all expectations. he has one of the most sweeping records of a first term president in decades. you went to aliquippa and you look at the implementation of those laws, and they have huge long term potential impacts on the very places that moved

towards trump or bernie sanders because of populism. what did you see? >> so i wanted to go out into the rust belt swing states and i think it told the story of biden's political situation in a nutshell. on the positive side, the town about to build a new low carbon steel plant. unemployment was down, they were building market rate housing for the first time in decades. the democratic mayor was very excited about the direction things were going. but on the other hand, he said bifrn ha biden hasn't been out here so nobody knows to give biden credit. and most people think it is because of donald trump. so i think that is biden's problem. you are getting a lot of the positive economic response you want in the places that you targeted, the kinds of places that were left behind after the 2000 financial crisis, but people have not yet connected that to the president. >> aren't the courts also

another big problem for them? if you look at post 2008 financial crisis, elizabeth warren's brainchild now undercut by the court. essentially the power structure is unkonconstitutionalunconstit. so an additional threat to dismantling what they fought so hard for. >> i think that's right. and washington didn't just sort of roll over and say yes, let's do populist. there is always a fight, always a tug of war. >> overturning student loans for example also. >> exactly. a big warren idea that biden implemented and was mostly struck down by the court. so i think that that shows that that ongoing tug of war between the forces of left populism and forces on the right who don't want that being implemented and who use the courts in the regulatory process to fight back and try to stop it. >> the book is "the rebels."

it is a -- >> great cover also. >> and your last book was excellent and this is also excellent. thanks so much for coming on. >> congratulations. it is a critical night for nikki haley and ron desantis. they are facing off head to head for the first time in the cnn debate. and donald trump with an ominous warning what could happen if he is not granted immunity. we'll explain.

sad news to report. mother of former first lady melania trump has died. ms. trump described her mother as a strong woman who always carried herself with grace, warmth and dignity. and she writes we'll miss her

beyond measure. >> and former president trump wrote she was an incredible woman. cause of death has not been revealed. she was 78 years old. "cnn this morning" continues right now. >> join with us and the best days are yet to come. >> being the underdog suits me better so i home people will estimate that we'll do well. >> and i'll make the decision on monday. and then there were two on the debate stage. tonight nikki haley and ron desantis one-on-one in the cnn public debate in iowa. in minutes we'll be joined by a top desantis campaign official as the governor of florida falls to fifth place in cnn's new hampshire poll. and donald trump returns to the campaign trail sandwiched between voluntary campaign appearances, his lawyers arguing that presidential immunity