tonight, causing a stir. tensions between the u.s. and uk boiling over after an american chemistry professor concluded that adding a pinch of salt is the secret to a perfect cup of tea. the professor spilled the tea in a new book for which he researched a document spanning more than 1,000 years. did her homework. she says the salt makes the tea less bitter. this is now a piping hot controversy across the pond. listen to how they are talking about it on british tv. >> i think the fact is, she's an american making a cup of tea. >> by definition means she's not an expert. >> wow. the biggest brouhaha between brits and americans over tea since, you know. the u.s. embassy in london issued an official response saying in a statement, we want to ensure the good people of the

uk that the unthinkable notion of adding salt is not official united states policy and never will be. thanks for joining us. anderson starts now. tonight, nikki haley's moment to republicans, including the former president, pressuring her to drop out of the race after her defeat last night in new hampshire. president biden's prediction he will be facing donald trump in november and what the new hampshire result sut suggests a the former president's strong and weak points. new reporting that the house ethics committee reached out to the woman matt gaetz alleged lid had sex with when she was a minor. we begin with nikki haley. she's making a case for staying in the race through her home state primary in south carolina a month from now. we will have that shortly. governor haley is speaking in the wake of her second place finish in new hampshire or crushing defeat as the former president put it last night

where he is referring to his former u.n. ambassador as nikki bird brain haley. >> when i watched her, the fancy dress, probably wasn't so fancy, come up. what's she doing? we won. she did the same thing last week, but he was much more angry about it than i was. >> the former president trotted out a tactic he used before. one his mentor, roy cohen, perfected. he suggests without evidence that nikki haley has something to hide. >> these are very dishonest people. you are always fighting them. just a little note to nikki. she's not going to win. if she did, she would be under investigation by those people in 15 minutes. i could tell you five reasons why already.

not big reasons. little stuff she doesn't want to talk about. but she will be under investigation within minutes. >> again, offers no evidence, par for the course. that's how he treats his enemy. it's how he treats his friend. consider the public humiliation he dumped on tim scott, who was smiling behind him, who never at attacked trump and endorsed him over nikki haley. last night, the former president twisted the knife because he can. >> did you ever think that she actually appointed you, tim? think of it. appointed and you are the senator of the state. she endorsed me. you must really hate her. it's a shame. it's a shame. >> i just love you. >> humiliation, that's the price of admission for senator scott

who is awe uditions to be a vp pick. i know you support ambassador haley's decision to stay in the race. what evidence are you seeing that she's poised to slow the former president's momentum in south carolina? >> a couple of facts and figures. thank you for having me back on. i admire your show and your professionalism and journalism. let's give numbers. we have 62 delegates that have been picked out of 2,367. 62. that's all we've got. i don't think the republican party would be helping itself by saying we have had 420,000 people vote and we're going to go ahead and coronate donald trump as our president. he lost. he also lost in 2018, 2020 and

2022. he has a record of losing. nikki's path, this just started. we just got rid of the dirty dozen or so running. we needed a race where it was nikki haley and donald trump so we could possibly get him into a debate, which he is not going to do. but he should. the republican party is going to do nothing to force him into a debate. they should. now we have had five days where we have a one on one race, pretty close. new hampshire has ten counties. south carolina has 46 counties. we have increased 400,000 people since 2017 that are pretty solid republicans. we have 32 days and a lot to talk about. nikki haley doesn't think vladimir putin does beautiful

letters or the dictator in north korea is a good guy. we have a lot of work to do. we're excited to have him back on our home turf. >> i know you are bothered by comments that the former president made about ambassador haley, criticizing her dress, of all things, implying she would be under investigation if she were to win. do you think those remarks rally people in south carolina to her? >> i thought the continued -- yes. i thought those were cheap shots. inappropriate. he enjoyed humiliating senator scott. he enjoyed humiliating senator lindsey graham. he enjoys this to make himself look bigger, stronger, and better, along with that bleached hair and orange skin. we will do the same thing back. we will critique him as he comes to south carolina. this is going to be a contest. you have been here before. this is going to be -- we will

test him and see exactly how it is. he has not won south carolina yet. >> ambassador haley said something similar to what you said about delegates moment ago. i want to play that. >> the political elites around the country have said that we need to let donald trump have this. listen, we have only had two states that have voted. we have 48 more that deserve to vote. a presidential candidate has to get 1,215 delegates. donald trump has 32. i have 17. >> does she have the money to

keep going effectively in south carolina? the list of politicians in your state who are lined up against her, tim scott, the governor, henry mcmaster, both senators. >> anderson, all of my friends. these are all of my friends. everybody i did business with, everybody -- i just happen to be with nikki haley. she has never been the kowtow to the political class. she looked out for the taxpayer. i don't expect a lot of politicians to fall this line like they have with donald trump that are looking for something or looking for favors or whatever. at the end of the day, she will look after the taxpayer. we will be reminded of that. we have the money, because nikki has done the work. we outlasted, outraised and built a campaign made to last.

nikki works hard. we have a chance. there's joe biden, nikki haley and donald trump. one of those three will be president. >> appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. i want to bring in three cnn political commentacommentators. he will be optimistic. what do you make of her chance snz. >> she has the most political tal ept of 14 candidates who are running in the gop primary, including donald trump. this is a woman who is a two-term governor, former u.n. ambassador. the problem is the rnc put their finger on the scale before any candidate was declared, in favor of donald trump. even if she comes in striking distance, donald trump will get her delegates. it's hard. nikki haley is a fund-raising juggernaut.

she can sustain herself through south carolina. this is donald trump's republican party. she could spend $100 million on the airwaves in south carolina and it will marginally move the needle against donald trump. it's a different animal than when she got into politics. >> does she know -- does she have a better idea how how to beat donald trump than she did 24 hours ago? >> i don't see how. what we learned in new hampshire is that there aren't that many persuadable republicans. if you look at the splits, republicans have made up their mind. she did bring out some unaffiliated, independent people who don't like donald trump. those populations don't exist in the same way they exist in new hampshire. you brought up the number 100 million. that's how much her pac spent. she's finished third and second. at the end of the day, it will be republicans that decide who the nominee is. i fully admit she's saying things that are objectively true, she's making politically strategic, smart statements, that i'm sure a lot of people in the country agree with.

the people who voted republican primaries have made up their mind on their guy. tease donald trump right now. i fail to see what argument could be formulated now that hasn't been thought of. >> i want to play something else nikki haley said about donald trump. >> bring it, donald. show me what you got. you voted for donald trump twice. i was proud to serve america in his administration. i agree with a lot of his policies. but rightly or wrongly, chaos follows him. y'all know i'm right. chaos follows him. we can't have a country in disarray and a world on fire and go through four more years of chaos. we won't survive it. you don't defeat democrat chaos

with republican chaos. >> what do you make of her chan chance? >> she's right. chaos does follow donald trump. i think if you are nikki haley, stay in the race. why get out? four years ago -- >> she's bashing the person you don't want as president. >> yeah. sure. i'm happy for her. let that go on. four years ago, joe biden ran for president. he got beat in iowa and new hampshire by bernie sanders. he came back and won south carolina and the rest is political history. if you are her, why get out before you get to south carolina? let's mix it up, see what happens. the trick is, can she raise enough money, make the arguments and hold everything together to see if something happens? we have seen a lot of things happen in the last eight years that people thought would never happen, including de ing donald getting elected president, somebody with 91 counts running this time.

we keep seei ing things that we didn't expect. stay in the race. be in it to win it. >> there was -- gary tuchman did a focus group with voters in south carolina. two people both mentioned something nikki haley said last night in her speech about the ages of president biden and donald trump. do you think that was a mistake? >> i think she has to address it. it is both of their greatest vulnerable. bill clinton has been out of office more than 20 years and he is younger than donald trump and joe biden. when the biggest votest blocks are gen z and -- i feel like the undertold story is trump won. it was a bad night for donald trump. he underperformed. he showed that he has radioactive in the general election. he is bleeding moderates and independents. we live in an unpredictable environment. four years ago, covid was coming

to the country. we don't know what the next year will look like. there's wisdom to letting things play out. >> stick around. a lot more to talk about. what a likely biden/trump matchup might look like. what if anything the voting last night says. matt gaetz and new indications the house ethics committee is expanding its investigation of him to include sex crimes, allegations he is facing.

president biden picked up a key endorsement from the united auto workers association. right up front he says, it's now clear that donald trump will be the republican nominee. if that comes to pass, the question is, what will a biden/trump race look like? here is new information that may show how it could look different from the last matchup. john king is at the magic wall. we are two states in. trump and biden are looking forwards the general. where do things stand today? >> governor haley is in the race. respect that. even if she were the nominee, this is where we ended the last campaign.

since the census, they reallocated some votes. the same outcome would be 303-235. this is where we start, what could be the longest -- let me move that up. the longest again election in our history, too long for most americans. if you look at the polling, governor haley says she's a stronger candidate against joe biden. she's right. donald trump and joe biden run tie. no clear leader. the problem is, republican voters aren't listening to her. they think he can win. here is where we are. look at the polling in the states, talk to smart people in the states, this was the map two years ago. most people tell you -- democrats might argue publically not privately and that are almost definite across the sun belt states. i was in michigan a couple weeks ago. young voters are mad at the president. a lot of them are furious. for now, do that. if it were tomorrow, trump would

win. i don't think there's any question about that. >> that's a shakeup at the biden campaign. >> this is the challenge. think of your house. biden when you look at his coalition and his issues, he has a leaky roof, the foundation is cracked. start with the issues. the overall approval rating, a recent poll, 33%. our cnn poll, that's 36%. that's historically low for an incumbent president. 31% of americans approve of the job he is doing in the economy. a lot of democrats and independents disapprove. that's the lowest number on this question. how is the president doing on immigration, 18%? the president has a ton of repair work to do. i call this the umbrella issue. it's hard to convince people i'm doing a good job on the economy, on immigration, overall if they don't think you are up to the job. look at this number. who is in good enough physical health to serve?

28% of americans think the incumbent president is in good enough physical health to serve. to get people to say, maybe i will think on the economy and immigration, the president has to get them to think on that. >> trump has dominated the republican race. in all the early contest numbers, what does it show? is there any sort of interesting information there? >> we are seeing trump's strengths with the republican base. we see in the same results some of trump's weaknesses. they are big heading into the general election. this is the exit poll from last night. 44% of the electorate were independents. nikki haley got six in ten of those. donald trump, 39% of the vote. it's new hampshire. people say, it's a particularly peculiar election just for that state. 58% of independents going to nikki haley. that's good news for joe biden. a lot of independents in the states close to 50/50 don't want donald trump. here is another one. factor in it's new hampshire. but follow me as we go through. is he fit to be president if he

is convicted of a crime? this is among people voting in a republican primary. 42% said no. this roughly matches the horse race. it's easy to say, these were haley voters, in the fight last night. it's probably right to a degree. assume that comes down. if it's 5% or 10% of republicans in a state like michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, georgia, arizona, that's a liability for the president if he is convicted, there's evidence that even some republicans would walk away. >> come sit with the panel. we will release you from the wall. in a normal campaign with a normal candidate or a non-trump candidate, i assume if somebody had the lead that trump has, you would counsel him don't pay attention to nikki haley. that's probably not possible for donald trump. >> he made a mistake last night. he could have said this is over.

i appreciate ambassador haley. all republicans are welcome to joe. let's go beat joe biden. he couldn't do it. the haley people went out and spoke early to bait him into that and he took the bait. now we will fight it out. he will fight it out for another month. it was a strategic mistake. it might not have coaxed her out of the race. if you think about what john showed us and the possibilities that exist to change this map and win this election, complaining about nikki haley's dress is not on the top concern of issues the american people are worried about right now. >> certainly the case -- donald trump is a deeply undisciplined character. despite as we mentioned he does have a professional operation, the most professional i would argue he has ever had, he will get in his own way. nikki haley is staying in this. the words she spoke tonight, that's not something who is like, i might drop out and be his vice president. that's not what she's looking to do. she's going to put a hammer to him and really come after him in a way she failed to in the final

stretch of the xap. he is incapable of not reacting. that's what 32% of republicans who said they can't vote for him in a jep, that's the reason. >> do you think the argument haley makes, which is in a general in these polls i beat biden, does that resonate? >> before donald trump it would. in the before time, you would see donald trump say, this is my obvious vice president. i get all the republicans. she gets so many of the moderates and interests. together, we are peanut butter and chocolate. we can make this work. that's not the world we live in now. donald trump is looking more than anything for somebody that is loyal to him and not do what mike pence did. he can't possibly trust nikki haley to stand up for him that way. >> what do you think a campaign looks like between trump and biden, if that ends up being? covid was the specter that dominated how the campaign was waged. >> you make a key point there. joe biden won the presidency

because of the moment. the american people said, we need an adult. we need an adult. he lost the first three democratic contests, then suddenly he was revived because of the moment in the country. is there another moment? is there something that happens between now and the election where people say we need joe biden that adult? maybe. trump is a movement. trump is still a movement. nikki haley is trying to pull him back to the old republican party. that party is dead. you have to show a forward looking republican party to take some of the issues and gets rid of the drama. that's the challenge for biden. you don't have a pandemic. do you like your car or do you want a new car? people don't like their car. enough people are so disaffected and disillusioned with politics, even those who don't like trump drama think, i'm not getting anything from the traditional politician. he will close the border. he will at least do something on the economy. democrats get mad about that.

they think, the economy collapsed under trump. voters vote their experience not what the experts tell them or they think what the elites tell them. that's the challenge for biden. if he is going to get in a position to win, he must repair the cracks in the base there are many. there's time to do it. to his credit, joe biden has been declared dead before. the same people who say -- their argument is the same people saying i can't win now are the people who said i was done. to a degree that's true. he is the incumbent. the issue is terrain and the age thing. i don't like to make it about age many it's about vitality. i've been traveling, black voters in milwaukee, democratic voters in nevada want to see him. they want him to be active. take your lumps. let us talk to you. we are grateful you kicked donald trump out of the white house. where are you? >> how confident would the campaign be putting him on the road for seven or eight events a day? i would suspect not very. >> you don't have do that

anymore. what we are seeing is the president do things more interesting. we talked to the white house. they tell you, expect to see him doing things more evocative images, one on one, or him with small groups. he went to a family's house and talked to a gentleman who had his student loans forgiven. that gentleman's kids put out a tiktok video that's viral all over the democratic web. they are figuring out how to talk to people in the new media way that i think is going to be incredibly important. >> thanks. a cnn exclusive on the house ethics investigation, matt gaetz, a new development who they are hoping to talk to regarding allegations of sex crime. the former president in a new york courtroom today. will he testify in the second defamation trial involving e. jean carroll? what could he say after being found guilty of sexually abusing her by a civil court jury last year?

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$1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yup, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network. give your business a head start in 2024 with this great offer. plus, ask how to get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. in a cnn exclusive, a source familiar with the house ethics committee investigation into allegations of sex crimes against matt gaetz suggests that probe may be heating up. there was a justice department investigation that ended with no charges against gaetz. plus, after the ouster of kevin mccarthy, mccarthy said gaetz was angry with him because of the probe. joined now by jennifer rodgers and by paula reid who helped break the story. what more have you learned? >> the ethics committee has done

a new round of outreach. they have reached out to this woman who is still 17 when she allegedly had sex with congressman gaetz. they reached out to the justice department seeking terms from its years long investigation into the congressman. the investigation into the congressman began under trump appointed attorney general bill barr. it went on for several years, expanding beyond the allegations of just sex with this underage girl, sex trafficking, lobbying and obstruction of justice. they did not pursue charges. in response to the fact that the ethics committee is looking into what doj did as well as reaching out to this woman, the congressman told us, those allegations were not true, have not been true and the people who spread the lies have been exposed, indicted and imprisoned. >> does the doj have to comply with the committee's request for documents? >> they do not. they probably will not. nothing was charged here.

materials that are gathered as part of a criminal investigation are confidential. i would be surprised if they give them anything. they can do their own investigation and interview witnesses, collect documents and all of that. they won't get what doj has. >> even though it's congress aasking them, a committee in congress asking? >> if they charged something and the materials had become public. but they are careful with materials that don't make their way into the public realm. if you don't charge, then it's deemed that it wasn't worthy of charging. you don't want to smear people's names by turning over evidence. >> the committee, it's controlled by republicans. it started under the house democrats. >> exactly. it started in 2021. then when the justice department investigation became public, they decided to yield to the federal probe. then when the federal investigation wrapped up last year without any charges, this was revived. gaetz has told people, he blamed then house speaker kevin

mccarthy for allowing the ethics probe to be resuscitated. mccarthy said he thinks gaetz's frustration over this ethics probe is why he led the push to get mccarthy out of the speakership. you see even in a post-speaker mccarthy world, this investigation not only continues, but it appears to be ramping up. >> i want to ask about the e. jean carroll trial in new york. the former president will be in court tomorrow. is he going to actually testify? >> that's a great question. my sources tell me he is still expected to testify. we have seen this before. they get right at the last minute and one reason or another he decides not to. what we have seen in this case is he and his legal team, they have been trying to use it to amplify this idea he is the victim of an unfair system. the way they have done that here is sort of manufactured drama over not following the rules of federal court. if he does testify, there are parameters he has to say within. his value as a witness and

dani damage to the case is narrow. the judge would have to try to keep him in line. that's going to set off controversy. that is the goal. they want to get into it with the judge. >> is there any reason why he wouldn't get up and start to say things which he -- deny he did this, which the judge said he can't say, just to get into that? is there any penalty for him? >> there could be. the judge could sanction him. the judge could basically stop his testimony, presumably embarrassing him in front of the jury. he could do say-- >> that wouldn't embarrass him. >> but, if he behaved badly, if he is abusive to the judge in front of the jury, juries don't like that. they like the judge. they follow the judge's instructions as the person who takes care of them. when you are mean to the judge, juries don't like that. you could end up with higher damages, particularly punitive, meant to punish.

>> what's the schedule here? how much longer do you think this goes on? >> maybe about two days. the reason i say that is e. jean carroll, they have to wrap up their case, trump, if he testifies would be one of maybe two witnesses. then closing statements. you have jury instruction and deliberations. the trial in the spring, it was more complicated because they were considering allegations of sexual abuse, defamation and daniel s remember getting there shouldn't take as long. i wouldn't expect it beyond a few days. we have a question of what delays this, how is that juror doing, does anyone have covid? this should wrap up by next week at the latest. >> thanks very much. what's up with the oscar and "barbie." m

m margot robbie got overlooked.

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cargo plane crashing. russia says 74 people were on board. they claim mostly ukrainian pows. ukraine denies that. matthew chance has more. >> reporter: this is the moment the russian military transporter plunged from the skies. an eyewitness gasps as a huge orange fireball bill l dbillowse ground. this russian border region is an active war zone. i was clearing the snow when suddenly there was a loud bang says this russian eyewitness on local tv. there was an explosion in the sky, he says. i got scared. across the frozen crash site,

twisted metal debris is across a wide area. with human remains. ooh ukraine said it had a cargo of missiles. russia says it was carrying 75 ukrainian soldiers for a prisoner exchange. cnn can't verify either claim. i feel pity for everyone says this russian woman who saw the plane go down. my own grandson is fighting in our special military operation, she says. all of those on board probably had people waiting for them, too. in recent weeks, ukraine has been stepping up attacks across the russian frontier. hitting an oil terminal with a drone strike last week. taking out a strategic russian

aircraft. local officials say 25 people were killed last weekend in a ukrainian bombardment. on russian state television, commentators have condemned the latest shoot down saying it was ukrainians killing their own. this was yet another premeditated criminal act which does not surprise us, says this former russian general. it's now routine behavior, he says, by the kyiv regime. kyiv says if ukrainian prisoners of war were on board, they were not informed. russia may have deliberately put their lives in danger. >> matthew chance joins us now. what are russian officials

saying? >> reporter: russia is clearly trying to use this incident as a way of painting ukraine as the aggr aggressor, even though it's russia that stapled the invasion of ukraine two years ago. one russian official describing it as a barbaric act. the russian foreign minister speaking in new york at the u.n. earlier going further saying it was a terrorist act. the truth is, over the past couple of weeks, as i mentioned, there's been a big upsurge in cross-border strikes by ukrainian forces inside russian territory. even though ukraine hasn't said it did this, it does seem like the latest i teration of that strategy. >> what is president zelenskyy saying? >> he is in a difficult position. ukrainian intelligence was saying this was an aircraft that was carrying munitions, missiles to the front line.

in which case, it would have been a high profile target and legitimate. they have not clawed back on that, but they have said they are looking into the possibility or looking into the whereabouts of the prisoners of war that were meant to be swapped in the prisoner exchange. they called for a full international investigation to find out exactly what cargo, was it human, weapons, on board that plane that crashed in russian territory. >> matthew chance, thank you. we will be right back.

"barbie" has eight oscar nominations. there's outrage that greta gerwig got snubbed and margot robbie for leading actress.

it's leading to backlash online. in a statement released on tuesday, gosling wrote, there's no ken without barbie and no movie without greta gerwig and margot robbie, the two people most responsible for this film. he added, to say i'm disappointed they are not nominated in their respective categories would be an understatement. joining me harry anton. it does seem like a bad look for the academy. >> you will recall, they had an issue with oscar so white, them not considering diversity enough. they brought in a lot of new people to make sure that it would be more diverse. then this snub. >> greta gerwig, it was her whole vision. >> the whole point of the movie to get rid of the patriarchy. one woman is in the best director category. it's like the vision is being realized with a snub.

>> you looked eed at the numbe did they get robbed? >> i believe they got robbed. there are those that try to predict who will get nominated and win the oscar. it's put together by someone who is an assistant general manager for the new york mets. what you saw was both had a majority chance of getting nominated, around 75%. of course, 73% and 74% are not 100%. i'm surprised but i'm not shocked. >> what about the history of women nominated for best director? that's been called out time and time again. >> it's pathetic. it's pathetic. that's the only word. only nine out of 240 times since 1976 -- i say 1976, because before then, there were no women who were nominated for best director. this goes to the fact that there are a lot of opportunities that have been bypassed for women.

they haven't been put up to be directors for a lot of the films. that speaks to a larger problem where women aren't afforded the opportunities to be directors on these big films. then the time they do, they are snubbed. >> yeah. >> the voting -- when does the voting take place? >> that's what i'm excited about. the nominations occurred throughout january. now there's four weeks between them and the voting which will happen february 22nd. what i'm curious to see is whether or not all of this outrage actually impacts the way they go and vote. both margot robbie and greta gerwig have nominations in other categories. i wonder if they absorb all of this and that changes the way that they vote in the end. >> hillary clinton, she put out a statement. she said, greta and margot, while it can sting to win the box office but not take over the

gold, your millions of fans love you. you are more than ken-nuff. >> how does this impact viewership of the oscar s? this will boost viewer shl. they will want to see whether margot and greta say anything. >> i know if you look at the trend line in terms of people watching the oscars, it's been going down, down, down. we saw a rebound over the last few years coming out of covid. this isn't like the nfl where we see record ratings, 50 million people watching. this has been an awards show people haven't been tuning in to. maybe controversy is able to boost viewership. the oscars might welcome that. >> what are the chances of it winning best picture? >> this is the other thing to keep in mind. look, "barbie" was well reviewed

but wasn't the critics' choice. this is something that we know when we look at best pictures in years past, especially more recently, you might think, okay, if a film does really well at the box office, number one, domestic box office, you think, that's going to be the film that does best at the oscars. that used to be the case. we used to see this correlation between the films that did best at the box office and those that did best at the oscars. what we see is that that trend from 1980 to 2008, it was 11th. this is confusing. >> i don't know what you are saying. >> they don't like comedies. they are so biased towards dramas and things formal that comedies get snubbed. >> hold on. that's true. that's why robbie had such issues. it's also the case that they don't like films that necessarily do well. the films that have been winning oscars most recently are not necessarily the films that have

done well in the domestic box office. the critics are moving away from -- you are giving me this look. you are falling asleep. >> i'm about to pass out. >> what i'm trying to say is the critics are disagreeing with what the audiences are saying. >> that's true. >> i'm glad we can end on that. thank you. we'll be right back.

a new episode of my podcast about grief came out today. point your camera at the qr code on the screen and a link will appear that you can click to download it. in this latest episode, i talk with a woman who is known as mama shu. she's lost two of her four children. three years ago, her 23-year-old son, who was working as a security guard, was shot to death. in 2007, her 2-year-old son was killed in a hit and run. what's remarkable about her, one of the many things, is she turned her loss into love. as she says, her grief into glory. she's dedicated her life to transforming a rundown street in

michigan into a vibrant community. she was one of cnn's top ten heroes of 2023. i spoke with her on the podcast about how even though her sons are gone, she still has a relationship with them. she still is their mom. >> i have to understand and detach from the physicalness of them. you know? to learn that piece. know i can still deal with those boys on a higher level. that's what i do right now. i know that they are gone. i know they are dead. i know they're not here. i know they are ancestors. i know they are here because they are part of me. i'm still able to work with those boys. i do. i feel them. i know when they are around. i know when they have their hand in certain things that happen. i just feel it. i'm very thankful. >> you still have a relationship with them? >> yes. i have a full relationship with