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it's a two-person race now or is it? tonight on "laura coates live." ♪ all right. i admit that was a bit of a trick question. nikki haley does think it's a two-person race between trump and herself. >> donald trump got out there and just threw a temper tantrum. i know that's what he does when he is threatened and he should feel threatened. >> trump and biden think it's a

two-person race between the two of them. you know what the fact is? the primary season is taking a bit of a back seat to what we'll call the court season because even though nine republicans, yes, nine republicans have dropped out of the race, people forget about a third party, the real decider at times, the courts. now it may all come down to fani willis, alvin bragg, jack smith, letitia james, not to mention, of course, the d.c. circuit court and perhaps the biggest decider of all, those nine who are still very much a part of the game, the supreme court. so much for a two-person race. this is going to be a whole lot bigger than that. let's talk about now with elliot williams and shermichael

singleton and lancia johnson. we talk about this being a two- person race and the third party, no labels, but when it comes down to it, trump has used each court appearance as a campaign stop. it has been advantageous for him in polling. he has fundraised heavily off all of it. when you look at that elephant in the room, valencia, these courts, these trials, what do you see? >> you said it. it's free press that donald trump likes. i think that's the only reason he likes to go testify is because he knows he'll get the media attention for it. i was talking to folks earlier this week that even though that means the media will be sucked up in those cases, those are free campaign ads for us because not only are democrats tired of the chaos and court cases, so are independents, moderates and general election voters. it will benefit us in a weird way when i say not a lot of

media attention on the candidate does actually benefit you because it's horrible press for donald trump with what's happening in the courts. >> he thinks it's good press. the game of anytime they're talking about you it's a good thing because part of what his campaign has been about, gotten him in trouble at times, a political witch hunt used to describe all these different actions. he uses it as part of his campaign, even to the point of gag orders conflicting with what he wants to do. >> it really does benefit him politically to go out because a third of the nation actually believes this is a witch hunt orchestrated out of washington and with tentacles across state courts in georgia and new york and federal courts in washington, d.c. all trying to take down the former president. when these cases ramp up, he gets a stronger argument that these people are coming after me. look, i know it's nonsense. i'm pretty confident you think

it's nonsense, too, and sort of most sensible people in america do. however, something to contend with is the fact a lot of people actually believe the former president is being persecuted against. >> you think about the electability part of it. nikki haley, chris christie, asa hutchinson, even desantis at different times all talking about electability. the baggage that is what you describe brought, these albatrosses, the legal cases, things so much for the average voter or moderate or independent, but electability does not come into play as much in the primary. why? >> because most republicans at the base level believe donald trump should be given a second opportunity. whether they believe the election was stolen or those who don't believe it was stolen, when i travel the country, many say if it were not for covid, he probably would have won the election. >> i hear that a lot. >> i think the economy was greater. i liked the way he handled immigration and a litany of other issues. he should be given an

opportunity. i think donald trump is poised to win back georgia. michigan, arizona, nevada is in play. just republican voters alone will not allow the former president to win back those states. clearly there's a litany of independents, 15% saying you know what? i'm willing to vote for him again. when you look at the margin he lost those states, there is a pathway for him to regain those electoral counts. >> you're nodding. you agree? >> it's interesting because i feel some of those independents are saying that, but they're also getting tired of this. i think with nikki haley and new hampshire, some of what she was bringing to the forefront of the conversation is where do those people go who are tired of the chaos? whether or not they support donald trump as a policy leader, feels weird to say that, whether or not they support him, people are exhausted from the chaos. they want this chaos out of our

politics and a lot of these republicans who are publicly backing him, you know quietly are frustrated with all this. >> that's true. >> but they are beholden to power over unfortunately democracy, but they'll contie to support him. it will be interesting what the independents do once they go in the ballot box versus answering the question on the phone or focus groups. >> it's true. when you look at how people respond to these polls, it's one thing. i'm picking up on the word they here a lot because we all know about the illusion of the monolith, that there is a they. you hear how donald trump will say they say. they say. we all go who is the they, sir? when it comes to new hampshire or iowa or south carolina or any of the states, the they's, the independent voters, the voters who will support or not support him, there's not always the through line, elliott, between them all.

there is this notion of how do you want to be represented? how does the world see us, but also how do they view the court system and due process, right? >> right. i think another factor in all this is we all know the former president quite well, but the 2024 avatar that is donald trump has not been tested yet. he has not debated anyone yet and this question of is he going to appeal to independents in some way? we don't know because no one has -- it's still a fantasy, an idea based on what we knew from 2020 and 2016, but it's an entirely different world now. i'm genuinely curious where, if, in fact, he turns out to be the nominee, where this goes six or eight months from now. >> gary tuchman was in new hampshire. listen to what he had to say. >> i do feel as though he is

still fit to be president of the united states. >> i would say yes because i don't think there's any legitimate things that they're charging him for. >> if he's convicted of a crime, i don't think he should be the president. >> first, love the new hampshire accent. my father's from massachusetts, so it makes me feel like home a second. when i hear that and think about how they're viewing it, here not hearing a lot about policy. we're hearing about should he be on or off the ballot, should they be prosecuting him? this is what really seems to be the big question, not only for loyalty tests who might be a running mate, but also how voters are seeing him. >> yeah. you're making a great point. there is no policy position that a lot of these voters are talking about. they feel there's someone "standing up for the little guy" when donald trump could be the furthest away from someone standing up for little people, right? but the reality is i think voters get their information and soundbites. we know that.

i'm a communications person that's worked on several campaigns. they get these short soundbites and are believing what's repeated all over fox news, from truth social, from the house with the speakers, the multiple the republican party has it. it's going to be interesting as the biden campaign tries to drive a policy-focused campaign. this week they spent a lot of time and rightfully so on abortion access and on the other side you have them talking about all these court cases and oh, they're all against this when the reality is we know the republican policies actually don't benefit a lot of their base. >> it's a really convenient narrative that people will believe, that you are persecuted against or the state is coming after you and simply saying look, the justice department is pulling the strings on all these things happening. never mind, number one, some of

them are civil suits, some are state cases, some federal cases, have nothing to do with each other. these prosecutors have not coordinated their cases, but it gets in people's heads and they believe it and it sticks. >> but most people don't trust the justice system. most people have a negative view and perspective of the justice system and here is donald trump who for all intents and purposes is sort of the microphone, if you will, for these individuals who do feel that their voices have been unheard for a very long time, not just by democrats, but also by the republican establishment. when you don't hear them bringing up policy positions, it's because it's not about the policies. it's about seeking, i guess, representation in a way they haven't had in a long time. >> that's a bit of a newer invention, this idea republicans have somehow lost faith in prosecutors and prosecution and police and crime and so on.

we were both prosecutors. george w. bush, it was all about law and order. >> if you were to sort of segment the republican party, i think there is a difference from the regular base voter versus someone like myself and i think you have to delineate between the two. >> for generations this notion of -- like again and i go back to my time as a prosecutor, who i worked with, the cops, they were republicans. they believe in this notion, crime's back, cops are good, prosecutors are good, thugs and gang bangers are bad. somehow this all switched. >> that's no longer the position of the republican party. this is not the republican party from ten years ago for better or worse. >> it's donald trump's republican party. this notion of who you trust -- and it's not law enforcement anymore. >> i think law enforcement is still there. i would say quickly despite all these issues with donald trump,

the fact that nationally he's still ahead four or five percentage points from the president should say something. >> it says a lot. >> there's clearly something going on in biden world that is not resonating with the average american voter. >> assuming that iowa and new hampshire are the average american voters, that is true. did you two coordinate these outfits, by the way? you both look clean. alencia, you looook great. thank yoyou. > stick around. . sources s are tellining cncnn t dodonald trurump was seeeething behihind closed d doors overer hahaley's refufusal to drorop o now w hehe is threatenening her susupporters w with maga babanishment. . what's t that? wewe'll talk a about it nenext.

nikki haley is vowing to stay in the primary race after trump's new hampshire victory and let's just say the former president is meant to please, saying on social media tonight anyone who donates to haley will be "permanently barred from the maga camp." he's talking about anyone donating from this point forward, of course. so with her homestate of south carolina set to hold its primary next month, can she cut into the former president's momentum? joining me now, a man with the ear of the south carolinians, monty jett, the host of "rewind the monty jett show." thank you for joining us. you have the pulse of the people. you hear them calling your names. >> i talk to a lot of people, laura. it's so good to talk to you tonight.

you do a morning radio show. i do, too. it's up late for me, but you're used to this. it's interesting trump's position on this because i thought that if nikki could get within ten percentage points in new hampshire, that's probably a good move for her. she was about at that point and her backers are not backing away at this point. nikki's a fighter. she is just an amazing lady in south carolina. she has not lost an election. all pundits said she didn't stand a chance in the gubernatorial race and she won by almost a landslide, so you can't count her out. your early guests were talking about what people say in a poll and what they actually do. i think that certainly happened in south carolina because the polling showed that she did not have a chance to win the gubernatorial race and, of course, won it. she is quite a fighter.

she pulled the confederate flag down. many governors tried to do that after the emanuel african methodist black massacre happened in 2015. the pga tournament, the heritage, lost their sponsorship in south carolina and people went to nikki haley and said hey, the state needs to step up and fund this pga event. it gives so much money back to charities and back to the state. it's a no brainer. she says no, we're not going to spend tax dollars. she went out and got the rbc and boeing to sponsor it and we have this wonderful golf tournament. she's a fighter. we'll see what happens to these polls and percentages. >> there was a moment from one south carolinian to another, thinking about senator tim scott, when the former president donald trump in his victory speech turned back

towards tim scott. listen to what he had to say. >> did you ever think that she actually appointed you, tim? think of it, appointed and you're the senator of her state and she endorsed me. you must really hate her. no. it's a shame. oh, oh. >> i just love you. >> i wonder what you made of that exchange there. obviously he meant scott endorsed trump in spite of that appointment by nikki haley. >> yeah. >> what are south carolinian voters thinking about when you see something like that between the senator and former governor? >> i talked to several people today about that. i talked to some very heavy republican-leaning voters, some of them in the trump field. they're disgusted with tim scott that he would turn so

much against nikki haley. she did appoint him. there's no way he would be in the senate. he would not get elected in charleston had he not been appointed and had he some power at that point. so i think that might backfire on tim scott. >> the idea of the polls versus what you're hearing day to day is really interesting to me because as we talk about, polls can be wrong. polls can be overinclusive. that margin of error is always there and the honesty where the honor system of responding to a poll always is a hangup when i look at them. when you're hearing people day to day about the fact the race is still going on, that all eyes will turn towards south carolina, it's not just counting her out or not. it's really the race is still very much alive for south carolinian voters. is that right? >> well, i think so. i think it will depend on nikki

haley's advertising that started today. it's basically the same message she was running in new hampshire and that these two old guys are just too old, the democrat and trump, and we need younger blood here. she will be alive for two terms. these other two guys more than likely will not. let's see if her message holds in south carolina. i think she's probably going to have to tweak it a bit, though, if she wants to cut into trump's stranglehold with his supporters. >> your voice, i love a good radio voice. the fire behind you, i'm involved in this conversation. thank you, so nice to talk to you, always great to hear your perspective. we'll continue to follow what's happening on the ground. thank you. back with me, shermichael singleton and alencia johnson. i'm sorry i don't have a fireplace for you. >> that would be nice, laura. >> can we work out something,

maybe a little graphic? >> it was cozy. >> it reminded me when people are thinking about the polls in particular. you kind of get lulled into make a false sense of security either way. you think you're so far ahead or lagging behind and have to ratchet it up. south carolina will be very important. you had a reaction when you saw senator tim scott behind donald trump yesterday. what was behind the look i'm seeing right now on your face, alencia? >> i mean just the pivot and the butt kissing -- we're still on television, right? -- that was happening there and this cognitive dissidence of what is happening of who donald trump is and how tim scott became kind of a darling of the republican party around the time when governor haley did as well to which monty alluded to. during this time of racial unrest, there's always been racial unrest, but during the obama years when the republican

party was having this reckoning. we are inclusive as well. let us show you we are supportive of people of color. these two came up in south carolina together and now tim scott, who a lot of republicans believe was a very sensible senator, is over here groveling at trump, it's interesting to see how the tables turned, particularly for a black man. for me just to see that position of a black man to turn to donald trump is very disheartening. it bothers me, especially someone who is a daughter of a black man from the deep south. >> if only we had a black man on the panel to talk to. >> only one, right? >> what is your thought? i know you're not the black man of the world. i get that. i'm being tongue in cheek. >> i second everything you

stated, but look, i think in terms of politics, donald trump has a significant lead in south carolina. he's been endorsed by the very popular governor mcmaster, both u.s. senators, scott and the other, endorsing him, very popular. members of congress, part of the south carolina delegation, endorsed him. several pastors of mega churches with a significant amount of influence in the evangelical community in south carolina are supporting him. i've been in that state with newt gingrich and with dr. carson. i know the state very, very well. if i'm advising nikki haley, i think her future is very bright. my concern would be do we go to south carolina and lose by 40 points? you sort of become a nuisance candidate in the eyes of many republican voters. what does that look like if i'm trying to create a path over the next several, four years to position her in the best way to run again in 2028? my worry is you risk whatever those odds may be. i'm not certain this is a

calculation she should take. i think she should look at the numbers and perhaps get out of this thing and then plan for the next four years. >> we're a month away. >> it's interesting, though, as i look at nikki haley as a woman candidate for you to acknowledge republicans see this as a weakness. on the other side, people who believe in women ascending to higher offices would see that as a strength that she has stayed in and tried to take down donald trump, right, like she persevered. it's interesting how the base of the republican party thinks versus the democratic party versus independents who would see a woman standing up to this big some would say beast of donald trump and how that resonates. >> not to interrupt, but i would add quickly i think getting over the trump mountain was too steep of hurdle for any other candidates and the republican voters want to give this guy another opportunity. i think as a party we have to go through this, laura, in order to move on. it is what it is.

>> i hate that phrase, shermichael. >> i'm sorry. >> i hear it is what it is and i bite my tongue. thank you. i don't want to have blood come out. i'm just messing with you, but i do hate that phrase. next, jury selection in a case that could have huge implications in school shootings. is the mother of michigan shooter ethan crumbley also guilty? we'll talk about it next. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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$1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yup, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network. give your business a head start in 2024 with this great offer. plus, ask how to get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. a jury selected today in the michigan trial of jennifer crumbley, the mother of the

oxford high school shooter ethan crumbley. she's facing four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with her son's murder of four students back in november 2021, the worst school shooting in michigan's history. ethan's father james crumbley is set to go to trail march 5th. they are being tried separately in this matter. ethan has been sentenced to life without parole. prosecutors accused james and jennifer crumbley of disregarding their son's mental health and buying him a gun. his mother even allegedly taking him to a shooting range. on the day of the attack, his parents allegedly refused a counselor's request he be taken home after a teacher found him with a violent drawing of a shooting. joining me now, jury consultant richard gabriel, president of decision analysis. i've been eager to talk to you today, richard, because whenever there is a big jury selection moment, my mind as a trial attorney and prosecutor goes to who am i arguing my

case in front of? who is it that's going to decide ultimately? you got 12 jurors. there are five alternates that have been chosen for the jury today. i think it's ten women, seven men, several parents among them, gun owners. what are your thoughts on this makeup of this jury? >> what's interesting, lawyer, is that you have this division of men and women. you've got 11 parents, half the jury that are gun owners, raised with guns, but that only tells part of the story. it's really the attitude of those gun owners and those people that even aren't gun owners towards the responsibilities of people who own guns. what is the nature of the relationship between the parents? what are the rules regarding guns? that's where the jury selection becomes really interesting. several people there were asked about whether they'd taken gun safety classes and the truth is that jurors will apply their personal experience to create their own rules and then apply

that to the evidence of the case and then obviously filter that through the interpretation of the law. what's most interesting to me on this case is as you well know from having tried cases is that jury selection is really about choosing those two or three people that will be your opinion leaders. there's a doctor on there who has seen gunshot victims and has actually known two suicide victims. there's two engineers, one of whose husband is a lawyer, and all those people are the strength of the jury. that's who i think either side is looking for to lead the charge for them. it's a very interesting panel. >> it really is. the opinion leader, the one who will be able to in some ways lean on or influence and remind people about what is expected of them as jurors and the evidence and maybe taking away those biases one might come with, this is also the first trial of a parent of a mass school shooter in this country,

involuntary manslaughter. it can be difficult for some jurors perhaps to find her responsible when she didn't actually pull the trigger. that's going to be the real issue for the prosecution here. talk to me about having parents on this jury. >> right. >> more importantly, at times when somebody is a gun owner and you say has put their own personal experience into it. they may think of themselves as the model citizen or the model parent. >> right. >> and use that against her. >> yeah. i think that's really true. there was a lot of discussion in the jury selection process about parental responsibility here and it has to do with what are the rules? i think that's where each side will look to a certain type of juror, certain personality. there's some parents who are like no. i make the rules in my house and i make sure my kids follow them and i'm tracking my son. another issue has to do with how well, what was her knowledge of her son's mental state and whether there was

foreseeability in terms of his ability to actually do this kind of act? so the parental responsibilities, how well does a juror know their own kids, how well do they apply rules to their kids, and how much control of their child's behavior and how well do they monitor their child's behavior? a lot of this will be the personal application of these jurors themselves. >> that's such an important point. what would they do if they were in that situation? that'she gift and curse of a jury of one's peers. richard gabriel, thank you so much. we'll lean on your insight throughout the trial. >> thank you. there are major ethical questions over the planned execution of an alabama man. the question for many tonight is why he's being put to death by an untested method that some say could lead to excessive

pain or even torture.

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the state of alabama tried to kill kenneth smith once. they failed and now they are trying again and further into the executing their death penalty sentence. this time the state is going to try a new and untested method attempting to put him to death using nitrogen gas. experts are very concerned because alabama is not actually providing many details about what their plan would entail and those same experts are saying that this execution could lead to excessive pain or

even torture. smith's lawyers asked the supreme court to stay tomorrow's execution. that request was declined this afternoon. i want to bring in cnn's isabel rosales who is in alabama. thank you so much for joining us. you spoke with kenneth smith's spiritual adviser today. i understand he's also concerned. what did he say? >> reporter: right. that is reverend jeff hood and listen, he is worried this thing could be botched. he is also worried about his own personal safety. he's going to be in that execution chamber and he's got five children. his concern is this nitrogen gas could leak outside the mask that will be placed over the face of kenneth smith. he's concerned about the execution team that's also going to be inside of that chamber. he, in fact, was forced to sign a waiver with the department of corrections indicating that he acknowledged that he could be at risk, be in harm's way by

agreeing to enter into that chamber during kenneth smith's last moments. he toured the execution chamber this morning and he told me he feels the state of alabama is unprepared for this never before seen, never before done nitrogen gas execution. he had safety questions he told me that they either could not or would not answer. listen. >> it's lunacy. i mean it's absolute lunacy. i mean for months we have been asking the alabama department of corrections for more information. is this going to be safe? what's going to happen? today i go into the chamber to orient myself with the warden and one of the captains of the execution squad and as i ask questions, he's consistently saying either we don't know or

we can't tell you. >> reporter: reverend hood is scheduled to go into that execution chamber with smith sometime after the 7:00 p.m. eastern hour tomorrow. now smith originally had asked for this execution via nitrogen gas, but then he reversed course after getting ahold of the state's proposal on how they would carry out that execution. concerns according to court documents that he would go through excessive pain, specifically dealing with that mask. the big concern here is that he might vomit inside of that mask and choke, experiencing the pain of choking through his own vomit. hood told me that he has this history of consistently vomiting due to ptsd and migraines. so this is a very, very big concncern for his s lelegal tea in fact, h hood telllls me the state e will not a allow smimit eaeat past 1 10:00 a.m. tomomorrow out of concererns th he migight vomitit. we've e reached out to t the st for comment on that.t.

>> thahank youou so much, isaba rosasales. >> we'll bebe right bacack.

tonight we are going behind the scenes, stories about true crime murders. they are everywhere. look at the most popular podcasts or the most watched netflix documentaries. you'll notice a bit of a pattern. so many are about what? you guessed it. true crime. my next guest hosts a wildly popular podcast "crime junkie"

consistently topping the podcast charts and named top show in 2023 on apple podcast for a second year. the creator and host of the show, ashley flowers, joins me now. ashley, i'm so happy to see you again. how are you doing? >> i'm doing great. how are you? >> i'm still fascinated by true crime. i know so many people who are drawn in, become armchair detectives and true crime stories have always been a source of fascination, but they've exploded in popularity recently. what do you think is drawing so many people in? >> i think it's a fascination we've all had as a society for a very long time. i think it's becoming more mainstream, more normal to talk about it. i think i'm drawn to it out of a sense of self-preservation of what can i learn? how can i take away something from these stories and as a

creator, i'm constantly thinking about what guidance, what information can we give to people to educate them, to protect them? >> i think that's such an important point. so many people are listening not only out of curiosity and intrigue, but how can i never allow this to happen to anything or anyone? there are studies that do show the true crime audience is mostly female, 58% compared to 42% men. why do you think that is? >> i think again a lot of it comes from statistically women are more likely to become victims. if you're looking at the self- preservation angle, i think we're drawn to that. i also think the stats are a bit off. even from our fan base the stats tell us it's women listening, but i find almost all the time their male partners are often listening with them. >> oh, i watch "the housewives" and my husband doesn't. he knows every single

character, sitting next to me. >> exactly. >> you're talking my language, ashley. we see you, men. talk to us about some of the most top stories you've covered on your podcast that got the most traction because a lot of them have done so well in terms of the audience and listenership, but what are the big ones you've been seeing? >> we did one recently. i gauge it by the kind of feedback we're getting, what's sparking conversation and recently did an episode on sextortion. we had a young woman here in indianapolis where i'm located reach out to us about her own case and how she was sextorted for a number of years. after doing that episode, we told her story and told the story of a young man named walker montgomery who unfortunately took his own life because of the sextortion he faced in a matter of like hours. the amount of responses we got from that episode of people saying that they had experienced something similar or even people saying that they

thought they had been a victim of this same man who perpetrated against asia anderson and they were going to now contact the fbi. it's that one that i feel like we hit something that was happening that was relevant. we have hit it on the pulse. >> asia, that story, here's a clip from "crime junkies" that goes into that very interesting and compelling story. listen to this. >> according to the fbi, sextortion is on the rise, specifically financial sextortion. in fact, federal agencies and the national center for missing and exploited children issued a public safety alert about it just 18 days after walker took his own life because last year more than 3,000 minors were victimized, mostly boys between the ages of 14 and 17 and more than a dozen victims died by suicide as a result. while young people are more at

risk, plenty of adults get caught up in this trap, too. >> why i think this is so important is although people have a fascination, i mentioned reality television with as an escapism factor, the reality, though, in what your podcasts bring out is the tragic realities and the details that are so important. it's not something that is entertainment. it is informational and people are latching on with both hands for that reason. i mean as you mentioned in the show, virtually anyone with internet access is vulnerable. >> yeah. >> that widens the peephole. >> everyone is worried about their kids going out of the home, but the outside has been brought in. they have the entire world in the palm of their hands. what i was most happy to hear as a result of that episode were the conversations being had at home.

our listenership, there are kids in middle school listening to our show and then parents and grandparents and it sparks a conversation that people don't even know that they need to be having. it often feels very far away, but if by having those conversations we can save just one kid or prevent just one instance of this, i mean it is worth all the work that went into it. >> absolutely. so true. i'm so glad that you're here. what i love and always loved about you, i've known you a little bit now, your curiosity has propelled you and you are like so many of us, ready to people with a curiouous dispososition who o are justst to telell the storories that ma to people and i rereally applau you in that. thanank you u so much, ashshley flowowers. bebe sure toto check outut her podcast called "crime junkies" and hey, thank you all for wawatching! i'll be lilive o on instagagram couple mininutes. bebe sure to tune in andnd join coconversationon. tell me what you werere thinink

ababout while e you u wewere wa the shshow becausese our covere contntinues.

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