the chilling words of the michigan mass shooter's mother tonight on laura coates live. jennifer crumbley, the mother of the teenager who shot four classmates to death in 2021, in the worst school shooting in michigan's history, took the stand today. she is tried with a involuntary manslaughter in a case that tested the limits of who might be found responsible for a mass shooting. let me tell you, her testimony today shocking. >> i've asked myself if i would've done anything differently and i would not have . >> if you could change what

happened, what? you >> absolutely. i wish he killed us instead. >> imagine a mother saying she wishes her own son would have killed her and his father, saying, if given the chance she wouldn't have done anything differently. meanwhile her defense attorney indicating she and her clients don't necessarily meet i die or see i die about how to handle the rest of the case, specifically on who ought to testify in favor of the defense. she will go to the jail tonight, she told the judge to speak more with crumbley. tonight we will take an in- depth look at the arguments and evidence so far, and the big question in all of this, should a parent be held responsible for the crimes of their child? joining me now, joey jackson and elliott williams. i'm so glad you are both here today. we have been waiting for the moment she would take the stand. they announced the trial was happening -- she did testify. elliott, she was asked about the weapon, an important

moment, about who purchased it, what did she do. she talked about her husband. listen to this. >> our guns your thing? >> not really, no. >> your awareness about guns within your home? >> i do. >> who is responsible for restoring the gun? >> my husband is. >> okay explain why you say he is responsible for that role. >> i didn't feel comfortable being in charge of that. it was more his thing. i let him handle that. i didn't feel comfortable putting the lock thing on it. i rather not let him do it. >> so, she is explaining, of course, talking about it wasn't a thing, it fell on her husband. what was the logic in that? >> i wouldn't feel comfortable putting all noah locke thing, the code was zero, zero, zero, to the lock on the firearm. there was negligence all around in this house. but she is trying to do is

point the finger at her husband, who is also charged with manslaughter here as well -- >> a different trial, that's important. >> there would have been a little bit of this, pointing at each other as defendants, and they had two different strategies, and so on. she's trying to minimize her own liability here by saying this was on him, he was the one that messed up. >> this moment goes back to the school, a school shooting, as get wrenching as that is. the school officials are part of this, even if they are the elephants in the room. testify, joey, there is a conversation happening on the stand about whether she knew about troubles up school, also what she didn't tell them when she was called to school that day about having brought a gun. >> yeah, no question. here is the reality. there is a picture that he draws that is ethan crumbley, has the gun on it, blood on it, and it has other words on it. your school officials, why would you, if you are not school officials, from a defense perspective, why would united increase inquiries with respect to guns? you go grab the nap sack had every opportunity to evaluate

the contents of that nap sack, you don't do it. you, instead, give it back. there is blame to go all the way around. then, the narrative of the meeting itself, in terms of the meeting they were having, what meeting? when james, the husband, and, of course, jennifer, comes to the meeting, she described it as a matter of fact meeting where they said, hey, some substance, we got you. it's all good -- >> it wasn't any urgency? >> exactly. it's not described as, i'm not going to take my son out of school. that issue, right, seems to be misplaced in terms of what the school suggesting that she refused to take her son out of school. that wasn't the case at all. certainly, the school had responsibility, last point. that is that apparently, he was troubled also, ethan crumbley, and he was, of course, saying the school and teachers were saying, hey, listen, he is having a rough time. he is sleeping in class. his assignments aren't being done. guess relatedly convey that to?

the parents. therefore, the school has an obligation as well to be forthcoming with the parents to let them know what's happening with their children, so they could -- >> counter point! i would say -- the school has to be forthcoming. that is not the problem here. the schools failures, and there were many, and i am with you on that, when the day comes that the school is sued, and they will be schooled for a lot of money right now, they'll get out for immunity issues and so on, but all of that will come up, and there are various feelings along the way. there is a pattern and a chain of negligence from her defendants. number one, let's take that drawing that the parents were aware of, and show them that it said, what was it? there will be blood on the ground of the school? all of the comments he made to his mother about violence, diary entries, so on -- >> on that -- let's talk about that. i want to make sure everyone knows what you're talking about. there was a peak in the diary, and one of the entries in the diary said this, elliott. i want help, but my parents

don't listen to me. i can't get any help. my parents haven't listened to me about help or a therapist. another one says, i want help, but my parents don't listen to me. i can't get any help. i have zero help for my mental problems, and it is causing me to shoot up the effing school, he writes. i mean, maybe they haven't seen it? that's the case, their defense. >> my brother, joey jackson, will probably say, as any good defense attorney would, that while his parents weren't medo where of these diary entries, these were in his private diary. there was one instance where he calls his mother, and says, i am scared of our barn. there are voices and people talking to me out -- >> he claims it's haunted. put that in context. he claims it's haunted, and she says it's a holistic. >> she brushes it off, thinks it's a joke. >> but he is -- the reality is, the house they had was built in 1920, and there are indications, because the house was built in 1920, they had

this thing where it could be haunted. he would say things are flying off, he would be with that we to board, the mother would play tricks, turn off the circuit breaker. when you look at something and give it context, not in isolation, it presents a bigger picture. as it relates to the journal itself, i mean, should parents just rummage through their children's things? the reality is -- >> actually, yes. >> yes, in some respects. >> in some respects, they should. we give children privacy so they could develop, grow, and do what they have to do. you show the journal entries, the reality is, that is only relevant to the extent that the parents would have knowledge as to that. if the parents don't have knowledge as to that, then that is a problem. we are not here for a referendum of mother of the year. we are here to determine whether she has criminal culpability that would rise to the issue of whether she is responsible for his death. furthermore, you don't charge ethan crumbley, right, as an adult, which they did, but then you say, he is a child, and the parents should have responsibility over him. there is a disconnect. we want to deter gun violence,

but we don't want to misplaced blame. the school has a responsibility here, big-time. a father has a responsibility here, victims. don't put people in jail. you want to eliminate second amendments. people in jail because they are criminally responsible. >> let's get to that barn, and the voices that he was hearing. it is sort of like, for me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. for me eight or nine times, you are liable for manslaughter. there was a pattern of conduct along the way where they kept missing the signals from him. a note to the teacher from his diary entries, his saying he was hearing voices, it happened again, and again, and again. they brushed off these concerns. now -- >> shouldn't -- that point, you know, the proximate cause, the earlington somewhere? the idea of hearing the voices or the haunted house, having that direct causal link that could say, it was close in time, and here's what the results are. that's what they're saying as the defense. this is something that happened all the time. it was connected to hear. what is your response? >> i will say, one hunted percent, we were talking about this before this. this is a challenging case to

prosecute. for all the reasons we are talking about here, you can get there, and, i think, what you are doing is, what you would identify is is a pattern of paper by the parents, being negligent was never one having how they stored and safeguarded the firearm, number two, extraordinary minutes from him about his desire to carry out acts of violence, and, number three, brushing off the mets made it directly to them about his desire to carry out acts of violence. it's a pattern, not great. it's not -- it's an amazing civil suit! when they get sued for a lot of money, they're going to lose -- it's tricky, as a prosecution -- >> before you get into that, though, part of the idea of who would be able to cooperate some of these statements might in fact be the shooter himself who is serving life in prison, who is on the witness list to testify on behalf, or in the defenses case. it's going to come up, joy, whether or not he did, in fact, ask his parents for health, whether they, in fact, were on notice. it is quite a gamble, if they were completely sure that his

response will be, i didn't actually ask them. it was in my diary. they never really knew. that is a heck of a chance to take. >> it is. apparently, they are from his discussions with the psychiatrist, or what have you, this information which would suggest that the parents were not aware of him looking and seeking help -- >> listen, there is a thought on that. listen to this soundbite in court today. listen to this. are you even aware of this? >> no. >> do you remember any a time where he came and talk to you and said anything about hearing noises? >> no. >> do you recall there ever being a time where he asked you to go to a doctor, or to get help, and you said no? >> no. >> and therein lies the issue. an important part of this case is notice. to what extent were the parents on notice as to any tendencies that he might have, right, not only his middlebrook abilities, but any violence? here is a student, he had no

disciplinary record at school, the school described him as potentially said. remember the context also, the time of covid, right? covid 2020 march, november 2021, there was carry over and depression. when the mother indicated she was concerned about him, she was concerned about him, he may exact violence upon himself. he doesn't have any violent history as it relates to other students, killing birds, maybe. the reality is, if the parents were not aware, what would they be anticipated to do? >> on the day that the shooting happens, she texts him, says i love you, looking forward. she writes back, ethan, don't do it. now, what she says, don't do it was, i don't want you to kill yourself, right? what does she do to stop him from killing himself? she was negligent in preventing her son suicide, or preventing her son's school shooting. needless to say, she was aware because that don't do it, she knew he had a fire arm, and she knew he was going to use it to

do something, and still did nothing about it. this whole idea that she was completely ignorant about what was going on -- >> there was no history of violence with respect to him exactly any violence upon anyone else at any time -- >> okay -- >> no indication in school that he believed anybody, that he got involved in any violence with anybody at all. the only issues we're internal as to him. we are talking about, foreseeability, as it relates to murder. that is a tough -- >> cumulative bucket of stuff! he is googling at school how to procure ammunition. he gets in trouble for it, and what this is montes? she says, ha, lol, just don't get caught next time. >> she addressed that as well. unless the mother is looking at what he is googling, how would the mother know what he's doing -- >> don't get caught -- >> parents have a tremendous responsibility as we know. the realities are, their responsibility has to stop somewhere. if a parent is not fully aware as to what their children's

activities are, they should not be held accountable for the murder that their children engages in. i think that is what's -- >> let me tell you something. let me tell you. the jury deliberating these points, thinking about this in a community where many of the students go hunting before school, many are gun owners in terms of the people who would be in the community, you have parents who are being questioned, this is why this trial is so historic, and we are going to continue to cover it. joey, elliott, thank you both so much. they are shaking hands! okay! >> prosecute and defense. >> i love that. there is a bromance happening in the studio right now. here is more of jennifer crumbly defending herself today in court. listen. >> are you a failure as a parent? >> i don't think i am a failure as a parent. at the time, i guess i didn't see -- i felt bad ethan was said at those things, and i guess -- i don't know. i felt like i felt somewhere.

>> do you have reason to know your son was a danger to anyone else? >> now. as a parent, you spend your whole life trying to protect your child from other dangers. you never would think you have to protect your child from hurting somebody else. >> my next guest, new york times opinion they can stack things jennifer crumbley is being villainized. you've got to read her piece. it was so thought-provoking. it is cold, what does this mother really guilty of? megan zach joins me now. megan, we were talking with the lawyers of the legal implications of it. society, this is the question people are asking. it is historic. it is the first time a parent has been charged for this sort of crime on behalf of a school shooter's conduct, and you say there's a lot of questions that you have. why is

-- look at the evidence very carefully over a long time. i've been very interested in this case since i first -- i still remember when we first saw the mugshots, and they had sort of gone on the lam. there was a sense of fugitive parents. but when i looked at what the case needed to be proven, as you guys were just speaking about in the last segment, and i looked at the actual evidence, i just don't really see, if i were on the jury, i don't see the moment when i am supposed to be convinced that they knew that there was a possibility or a real imminent possibility that he would start attacking his schoolmates. and so what i did notice from the very beginning was that there was a huge amount of innuendo in the case. we heard about her affair. as we heard that she loves horses. she maybe likes to horses more than her son. she was sneaking away to meet her boyfriend at costco in the parking lot. like, everything that seemed to be suggestive of somebody that we should not like, that we

should not approve of. and i think all those details are true, and i don't think we have to like her. but i think we have to ask, can we prove this case? because this is a very serious case. this is -- we are talking about 15 years in prison. we are talking about an unprecedented attempt to charge parents. and by the way, the parents are somebody who is charged themself as an adult. so, i still feel, watching the trial even today, that the general effort is to make us not like her and make us think that she is guilty and she was a bad mom and she was neglectful which all of that may be true. i'm not here to defend jennifer crumbley as a person, as a mother. i don't feel we know that much about the family life. i think we have little pieces. and i think we are being encouraged to imagine this whole narrative around these pieces, which may or may not be true. >> let me ask, you you question

your piece or the motivation. it's historic, it's a first time. but it follows a long line of mass shootings. you have a pint whether this was in reaction to that frustration, and that there is somebody who is a shooter, who is alive, to be held accountable, which oftentimes does not happen to hold him to account in some circumstances. and i have a parent who also can be held to account. is this reactive in that way? >> yeah. i think if you look at the shootings, if you look at shootings across the country, there is so much fatigue. and there's so much fear among parents, and families and communities. and i think when these shootings happen, it is just so devastating to the fabric of the community. and there's so much anger. and people want to find somebody to blame. and i think it is not just somebody to blame. it is, as many people to blame as possible. civil law suits. whoever you want to prosecute, you can -- want to prosecute somebody, you want to put them for the longest sentence possible. and i think that is a very natural human impulse.

i think when you have been wronged as a community, of course you want some kind of justice and reparation and whatever else you can get. and i think nationally the same thing is happening. i think we are all exhausted by the shootings. there's not a single american, whatever they think about guns who is just beside themselves with dread and discussed over the sort of ceaseless gun violence. but nobody really seems able to stop it. and so you want to do something, you want to grab on to something. i think that this case is under that umbrella. of looking for something that you can. do >> fascinating to think, and i wonder what the jury is thinking tonight in that community. and like the nation, reeling still, but they acutely feel it as members of the community as. well i wonder if they think of it the way you do. the article is so well written and thoughtful. i encourage everyone to read it. megan stack, thank you so much. >> thank you so much. next, what the campaigns are doing behind the scenes.

the unusual thing about nevada -- not nevada, nevada. i memorized it. why jubilant joe biden is not following the obama playbook.

i have told this to the press. i've told this to anybody who will hear it. i am not going anywhere. >> [applause] >> nikki haley, vowing to stay in the race, but her path to the white house is, well, difficult, to say the least. we've got a cnn political commentator and spokesperson for hillary clinton's 2016 campaign, cameron stand here, here at the magic wall, to peel back the curtain and -- this playbook, of course. >> yes, take a look at what's

coming. up >> i want you to remember something. we've got some contests coming up nevada south carolina, super tuesday. i want you to remember one thing. delegates. it's not about the benjamins. it's about the delegates. delegates. as you can see, going into the -- pretty big lead. desantis and ramaswamy because they dropped out those delegates can basically -- desantis can say, i want my delegates to go to trump. they can, they can choose another path. the point is, trump has the -- >> 32, already going in. all he needs is -- >> correct. so, let's take a look at nevada. in nevada, you've got two contests next week. >> why? why are there two different ones? >> i'm so glad you asked. with 26 delegates at stake, after 2020, the democratic governor of nevada said, let's just do a primary for a presidential contest. let's make it vote by mail. by the republican party said, no, we want to do a caucus. each party gets to determine

their own rules around how they are going to select their candidates. so, even though the state is going to run a primary, and nikki haley appears on that primary, they are no delegates at stake. >> so voters could actually vote on february 6th for nikki haley. but it would mean nothing to her in the overall count? >> correct. it would be a pretty hollow victory. she might, if you want to tell how many people voted for her. but it does not get her a magic delegate count. donald trump, who is participating in the caucus, goes, and leaves it with all 26 delegates. >> wow. >> here's why that matters. then, we go to south carolina. 50 delegates at stake. south carolina is proportional. so, that means the proportion of vote you get is about the proportion of delegate. about 50 delegates to get. take a look at our recent poll. you heard nikki haley on that clip right there, talking about how she wants to close that gap. that's a big gap. if you can't close that means the gap between xi and donald trump at the delegate starts to get even wider.

>> so, if this were to stay as it is he would get the 58% of the delegates. -- but she would not be able to get much closer than he is, the ultimate goal. >> right. he's already starting ahead. and he will continue to just widen that gap. and the big kahuna. super tuesday, march 8th. >> wow. >> the biggest of the bag of all these contests is california. another change that the state republican party made just last summer, instead of doing proportional allocation, it is a winner-take-all. >> trump wanted that, though. >> yes, he did. his folks wanted him, and what was moving through the rules committee at the state party. so, who does that favor? donald trump. it's a big expensive state. donald trump's favorite to win it. again, 169 delegates. so, it makes it much harder for nikki haley to catch up. >> and that could be the case for all these different states identified, even if it's proportional or otherwise. if he takes california, if he gets to the states as well, he is well, well ahead. but how does this play for biden? how are they looking at this

entirety of the scheme? >> yeah, so biden announced today, he's going back to a more traditional model. these are some of the key states that president biden won in 2020. and what they announced today is that they are actually, instead of creating a separate infrastructure in states like president obama did in his reelection 2012, president biden is going to rely on the state parties. they have been building up their state parties through the dnc over the last several years. now, if we look at this map, think about what is going on in 2022. these are states that know how to win. these are states that have been working with the communities and the progressive groups in their state. they know how to win and that should be an advantage for president biden because he's not actually starting from scratch as he's stacking up in the states. >> it's so important to go behind the scenes, and think about what is at stake. karen finney, so helpful. please stay with us. we've got a lot more to talk about. because joe biden was in one of

those battleground states that karen finney pointed out, the state of michigan. and -- in 2020, but is he at risk of losing it now? donald trump, possibly, in 2024? we will talk about it next. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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president biden basking in the glow of the high-profile endorsement he received from the united auto workers union. >> we now have, in large part, because if you end organized labor, the strongest economy in the whole darn world. we do!

we do. the whole world. [applause] inflation is coming down. jobs are growing. we we created 800,000 manufacturing jobs. remember, they told us we were dead? manufacturers dead in america? china is going to eat our lunch? well, guess what, man? we don't taste at good. >> the president is putting the economy front and center during his first campaign stop in the critical -- and i do mean critical -- battleground state of michigan. the question is, is his message being received? and are there other factors that might make michigan problematic for president biden's reelection. karen finney is back with the magic wall, and former congressman joe walsh also here. let's get right to the point as to why michigan is so important to him. it's not just the fact that it was claimed by biden after hillary, i think, lost it. but it's also a place that has a lot of pushback now because of the foreign policy decisions and alliances since october 7th. why do you think he is making the stop here? is it really the economy?

>> i think he has got to stress the economy. there is more slim vote in michigan that is not happy with him. there is young vote in michigan that is not happy with his foreign policy. but i love him getting out there, and aggressively talking about the economy. i love the way he talks. laura, i want to see him out there. and the midwest so crucial. and he still lunch pail joe. i think the more he can -- >> that's part of the strategy, as joe is pointing out. reminding people that he's got that blue collar background. and he is so good when he is just walking around, talking to folks. regular folks. he actually does quite well. the other reason michigan is important. we were talking about delegates. now, it's all about that magic number of 270. so, when you start to think about the path to the presidency, michigan is critical. we have a strong democratic governor there. we have a strong economic argument to make there to

voters. aside from some of the other issues. so, again, got to go out there and push the positives to try to reclaim this, and frankly, they are going to need to, though, i have to say, we build some bridges. because we are in a situation where some of the muslim american community have said, you know what? we survived four years of trump. we can survive for more. >> congresswoman debbie dingell, to that point, by the way, said that she had -- she knows michigan better than anyone, obviously, a congresswoman from michigan, said she had a very candid conversation about president biden, about rebuilding of the bridges. and that he's got eroding support among some muslim voters. and i just wonder if you think that message has been received by him, or do you think he believes, oh, time will just heal all wounds. >> i'm afraid it's the latter. i hope it's the former. again, to karen's point, he ought to just address it. i -- >> how do you do that? i would love to see joe biden,

president biden, in front of an intimate audience of muslim american voters in michigan, talking about this. >> i think biden is so much stronger off the cuff, and with people directly. get him in front of this. address this issue directly. the problems that muslim americans have with this policy on israel, because overall his standing strong with israel is a good position for him with the general electorate. >> but what is the statement that he could make that would be effective? that would resonate? >> i think it's probably not one thing that he could say that could change the dynamic. it's more about going to have the conversation, as joe was talking about. it is more about, i think, being in the room, and making sure people felt heard in terms of what their concerns have been. because, remember, i did see debbie dingell on the air earlier. she was talking about her own constituents the, calls that care they are getting from family members who live in the gaza strip, and being able to

hear those stories firsthand from people, and perhaps explain to them kind of the nuances of the sort of binds that he is in. because we know he can only do so much with israel. and he has started to press the case more. and i hope he continues to do the more and have those conversations. >> this is a tough issue for him. because this issue divides the democratic coalition. and i don't think he should run from it. i think he's got to go right at it. >> if he thinks it's tough, imagine the people in gaza. right? who are dealing with the issue every day. and of course, those in israel as well, hoping to have more than lip service from other nations, from within, from negotiations, and beyond. but this is a crucial issue politically as well. the polls tell us that it really is crunch time. we are 200, what? -- away from the election. look at the cnn national poll out now. it shows trump is narrowly ahead of president biden in a matchup. but the numbers actually have not changed, joe, since

november. i wonder if that spells trouble, since it's pretty constant. >> that's an interesting. point i had not thought about that, laura coates. what's interesting there is most republican voters believe trump can beat biden. most americans don't. but most republican voters do. and that kind of takes away nikki haley strongest argument. even though he's only up three or four points on biden, he is up on biden. so, he can make the claim that he can still beat him. >> meanwhile, another poll, where you have nikki haley saying she, of course, is sticking it out. but there's also a poll that shows really holds a very clear lead over joe biden. if she were the candidate of choice in that respect, does she have a shot, based on that? >> this is the argument she is trying to make to the gop primary electorate. so far, they're not buying it. i think, in the abstract, of course that looks like an interesting matchup. but i think in the actual head to head, particularly based on how we've seen her try to make some pivots in the last couple of, days i don't think she is

ready for the bright lights of the general election. >> don't tell her that. >> i won't, i won't. >> if she calls you and ask for advice -- >> -- >> maybe not. conference me in. i want to record that conversation. karen, joe, thank you both so much. up next, from the great recession to the covid pandemic, they are called black swan events. they can completely alter the force of our lives. the theory behind the chaos in just a moment.

two leading candidates for senate. two very different visions for california. steve garvey, the leading republican, is too conservative for california. he voted for trump twice and supported republicans for years, including far right conservatives. adam schiff, the leading democrat,

defended democracy against trump and the insurrectionists. he helped build affordable housing, lower drug costs, and bring good jobs back home. the choice is clear. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message. it's a wild world we live in these days.

a former president facing multiple trials, major -- and i do mean major -- global conflicts around the entire world, a.i. chatbot telling people they want to be alive, and that they are in love with the users there talking to. sounds like chaos, right? if you put it all into perspective, it may seem like it is pretty chaotic. well, several decades. an idea captured in memes like, how millennials have lived through 9/11, multiple recessions and a global pandemic, all before turning 40. it really does beg the question, just how big an impact are all of these events having on, well, our lives? how is it that -- so small and so random, like maybe a single virus, infecting a single person, in a single city in china -- how could that totally reshape every day life for billions of people? and maybe -- have to impact billions. maybe these chants events can just impact you. have you ever laid in bed at night wondering what your life

could be like if even a small thing that happened to you went to different way? brian klaas is a contributing writer at the atlantic, who talks about all of this in his brand-new book. it's called fluke. chance, chaos and why everything we do matters. thank you for joining me here tonight. and a fellow minnesotan. so, i'm glad to see you. another hometown kid. look, when you think about all of this together, and you talk about these black swan events, what exactly is that? >> a black swan event is usually something that is highly unpredictable. and extremely consequential. so, it's a rare event that really changes our world. i think we have engineered a world today that is more prone to them than ever before. that is because the world is extremely interconnected. in the past, you might have had a pandemic. but it would not have upended the entire world for a billion people in the span of a few weeks. or you have the suez canal boat, whereas who was single gust of wind can cause 54 billion dollars of damage because it disrupts trade supply routes for weeks.

that's the world we have built without enough resilience. so, black swans are becoming more common. and the random accidents of life are becoming more consequential. >> and it seems that the acts of life are felt for longer. it's not a blip on the radar. it is sort of maybe a butterfly effect? or a domino effect? >> yeah. the butterfly effect is part of chaos theory, and something i talked about in the book, basically that these small changes can have we will effects over time. one of the best examples of this is, you have the arab spring, ten or 12 years ago. a single guy lit him self on fire in central tunisian. it caused multiple governments to collapse. and also, there was multiple wars that started as a result of this. the syrian civil war, hundreds of thousands of people dying, as a ripple effect of just one person in central tunisia lighting himself on fire, and triggering the event. i think we've engineers a society that's much more prone to this, and that's why these black swans are walloping us much more than ever before. >> was it gwyneth paltrow that have the sliding door -- one little thing had changed, if

somebody was different in the scenario, if somebody had not been the resistance, or somebody had not been there to perpetuate, it, so many things could be different. >> i have this idea in the book, i call it the snooze button effect. -- and then you wake up on a tuesday morning, you are a little tired, you hit the snooze button. >> that was yesterday, thank you for bringing it up. >> now imagine you rewind 30 seconds and you don't hit the snooze button. the question is, how much does your life? change -- you might get into a car accident. some of it might not change that much on a small scale. but the ripple effects can aggregate over our lives. and so, one of the things that is really difficult to imagine if that we can't understand the alternative pathways. but both in society and then our own lives, chaos theory says that these things are diverting our trajectory is all the time. we are just completely oblivious to. it >> i think about the sort of thing all the. time i really do. i think about if one small thing had changed, i think about in terms of romance, if hadn't done that, maybe would not have met the love of your life or this had not happened. but it also can fuel conspiracy

theories, cannot? it makes people go, wait a second. it is such a hyper connected world we live in that this can't be coincidental. it's all part of something different. >> so, this is something i talk about it, it's called narrative bias. the human brain is prone to detecting patterns, even when there is just random explanations that they're the real reason why something has happened. so, whenever there is no story, we invent one. and we are really seduced by them. this is one of the reasons why it's so hard to debunk conspiracy theories. because people like you who will say, no, hold on, let's look at the facts. the problem is you are competing against someone who is telling a really good story. so, qanon, for example, is totally bogus. but it is a good story. it's a story that sounds compelling to people. and so they latch on to it. when someone says, no, no, no, there's nothing to see here, a lot of people who are, as all of us, harpoon to storytelling, it's an uphill battle. it's an fair fight. debunking conspiracy theories is partly because there are things that just happened, we want to invent reasons for them. this idea, everything happens

for a reason is also part of conspiratorial thinking. >> i'm fascinated by this. a really compelling read. i think of someone leaning in, going, wait, i put these things together, i thought of this. the book also goes into a ian i'm not going to spoil that for people as well. the book, again, is called fluke: a chance for chaos, and why everything we do matters. brian klaas, thank you so much for being with us today. we will be right back.

i want to remember a civil rights activist, radio icon and friend and mentor.

joe the black eagle madison. his family announcing on social media that joe lost his hard- fought battle with cancer. writing, joe, dedicated his life to -- underestimated and marginalized. although he is no longer with us, we hope you will join us and answering that call by continuing to be proactive in the fight against injustice. you may very well remember joe's appearances over these right here on cnn, speaking about civil rights and america's politics. but he was not just talk. joe went on a hunger strike for 73 days in 2021 over what he called a politically and morally wrong attack on voting rights saying, quote, just as food is essential for the existence of life, voting is essential for the existence of democracy. he was known as the black

eagle. tonight, my friend, the eagle is soaring higher than ever. and before we leave you tonight, a seat at the table. it is a phrase that we used to describe having your voice heard, knowing you are represented in the halls of power. but for black americans, 64 years ago today, the phrase took on a very literal meaning. being able to sit at the same lunch counters and the same tables as white customers. on this day, in 1960, for young black men politely sat down at the whites only lunch counter at woolworths in greensboro, north carolina. when they were asked to leave, they refused. and that helped to spark a protest that would last six months and, frankly, helped change america. one of those men, joseph mcneill, wrote to sixth graders attending a school that was named in his honor back in

2020. and his wife was kind enough to share with us part of it. in it he said, take courage. i was six years older than you are now when i began the sit- ins at woolworths lunch counter in north carolina. to protest the unequal treatment of african americans in this country. so, here we go again. it is character building time, and i know you are up to the challenge of incorporating your beliefs, wisdom and strength and understanding to what is happening in the world today. i want to thank you all for watching. and now, to my seat at the table, while our coverage continues. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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