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this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of coming to you live today on the program >> the >> leading opposition figure in russia alexey navalny, dies in prison >> what happened >> what does this mean for russia we'll dig into it with the new yorker's david remnick >> and >> the words have been reverberating around europe all week. former and possibly future president trump threatened not just step in against the russians if they attracted nato allies. >> in fact, i would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want i'll dr. carl bildt, the former prime minister of sweden, about the real fears on

the continent >> also >> richard house on the middle east and in the wake of pakistan's recent controversial elections, i will talk to the sister of the jailed politician imran khan who's allies swept the polls >> i'll >> bring you my take at the end of the show. but first, i wanted to get right to the death of alexei navalny and outspoken critic of vladimir putin for many years, navalny was poisoned with a chemical nerve agent and evacuated to berlin 2020 he defiantly returned to russia, was promptly arrested and languished in prisons ever since the 47 year-old died this week in a remote penal colony in the arctic. we had his daughter dasha on the show last january today, david remnick joins me to discuss this tragic death, which many believe is a murder he's the editor of the

new yorker and the author of the pulitzer prize winning book, lenin's tomb. welcome david, let me ask you first to talk from moment about navalny because i do think we sometimes in today's world we forget when we see genuine courage, this is a guy who was you know, allowed to go because of angular merkel to germany for treatment putin had tried to poison him. he refuses to stay there. he has political asylum. he could come to the united states. he goes back and he goes back because as i think his daughter said to me he could not ask other people to protest putin's russia if he was sitting comfortably in germany or the united states, that's a rare kind of courage. don't you think? >> contrast it to the lack of courage we see in our politicians and politicians all over the world who want even reach the possibility of losing a primary an election because of their their, their

unwillingness to defy a strong arm figure in their own party navalny was a kind of modern version of the old dissident. but his tools were different. he wasn't writing manifestos on onion skin paper and pass it in the mount. he was using social media. he was using mass protests. he was using all the modern tools he could. >> and he really came >> to fame in 20 12 as a leader of anti-putin protest right outside the kremlin walls. and this scared putin terribly because putin saw this as the possibility of a color revolution coming to his own gates. and he has been his enemy ever since he tried to kill him with poisoned with novichok several years ago, it failed. >> an >> unbelievably unbelievably alexey navalny are shown in the terrific documentary film that cnn broadcast again last night.

went back to russia knowing absolutely that he would be arrested immediately and put an a prison camp. so when you're asked if he was murdered, well, first there was the attempted and failed murder of several years ago and then the old technique of the gulag and his health failed. and we'll find out the details i hope about how he died, the idea that he had quote, unquote sudden death syndrome, is a kind of bitter dark comedy from the kremlin and why this putin feel he has, he has to do this. he has total control over the country. he he rules with an iron fist what does what did nevada leave represent or for that matter, boris nemtsov, who was killed aside the kremlin walls. why, why this fear of the dissident >> well, navalny represented the idea of modernity of liberalism, not in the american sense, but just in terms of

liberal thinking of choice. and the possibility of an end to this regime that began in 2000. that's been going on for a generation. navalny was it an attractive figure, somebody who had represented leadership for minorities of all kinds he represented a different existence not only with the west, but places like ukraine. he opposed the invasion of ukraine in the most forthright language. he was, he was a kind of latter day andriy soccer off, if you remember? in 1986, in december 1986, mikhail gorbachev, that relatively new soviet leaders signaled his turn toward liberalism by liberating andriy soccer off from gorky where he'd been kept as a virtual prisoner with his wife this is the opposite. this is somebody signaling his ruthlessness, his willingness to kill his enemies and a very,

very different kind of system that's in place right before his so-called election. remember putin is up for election in just a matter of weeks, which of course he will win because it's it's a fraud from beginning to end. so sometimes history moves distinctly backwards and tragically, we sometimes think it constantly moves forward in the best possible way that's not the case navalny always spoke of a beautiful future for russia that's why today, this week is so deeply tragic because it's very hard to imagine the opposition recovering its footing very quickly after this, this is a terrible, terrible blow and very quickly david, we only have about 30 seconds, but i do want to ask you, you raise the issue of political courage. is it possible that trump bore any of the republicans will have a rethink about putin after this brutal demonstration of his, of

his repression as donald trump ever had a rethink about anything in a moral sense and a political sense we'll tucker carlson become a transformed man after watching what happened following his pathetic interview. i don't think so. i seriously doubt that and it's left to joe biden to make the moral and political distinction between the two in the election which has already done by making the statement that he gave the other day that this was in fact a murder. and we'll see what the united states does going forward with this is a huge, huge event david remnick. >> thank you for putting it in context for us i was very helpful >> next on gps >> last weekend, trump threatened nato members who do not spend enough on defense how are europe's leaders responding i'll speak to the former prime minister of sweden, a country that just joined nato.arl bildt fareed

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>> closed captioning brought to you by rula law, iconic brands up to 70% off retail at rula law.com, rubella >> you never faithful sees the deals on top before them. >> there's been much handwringing among european leaders about a potential donald trump win in november's us elections. last weekend, donald trump said he would encourage russia to do quote whatever the hell they want, unquote, to any nato member who doesn't pay their fair share in military spending joining me now is carl bildt a former prime minister and foreign minister of sweden, built now co-chairs the european council on foreign relations welcome car let me first just ask you, what was your reaction when you heard that? give us a sense of what what what do you think you might have seen that most

european leaders, they try to keep a reasonable straight face, which wasn't entirely easier for some of them. again, stoltenberg the secretary burden of nato, was rather firm. what. he said. >> but >> behind that everyone is deeply worried we only sort of early and the election is in november. and he might say, the one strange thing after the other, that in itself has a de-stabilizing influence and then of course, entire question, if he's elected what on earth might happen? >> you know what i wonder about carlos's the damage already done in the sense that i have drawn nato. the nature of the nato is deterrence is, it's a psychological one. you're trying to deter putin principally from daring to cross borders because he is worried about the certainty that nato will respond. and that's has cast into doubt even if at the end of the day donald trump order to respond

some of the psychological deterrence is already lost samovar does that is already lost. you're entirely correct >> and >> that of course, i went the credibility of nato rests on the credibility of the man or woman who sits at over an office. and what kind of decisions might come out of the oval office iniquitous critical situation and when there is beginning to debate what might happen in different situations. that of course grades as you point out, uncertainty instability and two, this should be added, of course, the turmoil that we see in the house of representatives, which is blocking aid to ukraine the two together and it is distinctly these stabilizing is there as an area in which this jolts to europeans to do more, to take there's 18 out of 31 above the 2% threshold of defense spending. could it pressure more of them to do it? could it result in a more unified foreign and defense policy? say, i mean, as any good that could come from this,

well, i think as you noted, in most european countries, virtually all of them are busy increasing defense spending quite a lot. that has to do with ukraine. and all of them that are in more exposed positions and east of europe facing russia, the one way or that they are above 2% or even well above to present and they are on a path to even more so the limits to what can be down short term, what might happen is, of course, that has to do more with the aid to ukraine that there will be recognition of the need for the europeans to do even more. most of them hey, do ukraine has already been. but if the us disappears from the scene, the one way or the other europe will have to do more. >> it feels like in order to do more, i mean, as you said, europe is already paying more. do you current. ukraine, than the united states. but the us has a military industrial complex. the kind europe doesn't is it possible that you're, will have to build

something like that which some of which it had during the cold war kind of returned to a european military industrial complex that can that can churn out weapons of all kinds to deal with this new security environment. >> i think that will happen. but the problem with that is, of course it takes time, it takes time to build facilities to refute the workforce, to get all the raw materials necessary. we see that with the terms to ramp up production of artillery ammunition. but there's no question there is a significant effort underway to expand the defense industrial base of europe. but it takes years, unfortunately looking at it from the point of view of sweden, carl, where you prime minister and foreign minister sweden has taken a big gamble in joining nato, which is that it is adopted a much more confrontational policy toward russia then it has historically and it is done. so i presume on the expectation that it has the

united states ad is at its back. is there is there concern in sweden that maybe this was this was a more risky move than they realize, given the trump might be elected >> not really, because their advantage of a nato members should irrespectively of that, even if you point out, i mean, the us is the backbone of nato. so there's concern of what might happen. but of course we will gain advantages anyhow, by the integration that we get with our northern, northern european neighbors and with a bits and with the dutch and the others. so there are pluses, even if you take out the use out of the equation. but it was you as is the particular when it comes to the critical component of nuclear deterrence. there's no way the us can be replaced >> you in sweden made that decision to joe join nato because you see a fundamentally changed strategic environment, particularly with regard to

russia. what do you think about that donald trump doesn't understand. in other words, if i would've put you in a room with donald trump, what would you try to explain to him about what has happened in terms of the security situation tuition in europe, particularly on the east. >> well, i will try to say to him that the security of the united states longer term is dependent. what happens in the rest of the world and if the security of europe is fundamentally in danger by russian aggression, be that in northern europe would be that somewhere else. it's got a long-term impact on the security of united states. it's got to have an impact on china because the message will be clearly understood in beijing that you can do whatever you want and that might be other actors around the world that we received the same message. and at the end of the day the united states, we live in a far more uncertain world, and that should be understood even by someone who doesn't seem to care too much about the word card. bill,

>> always a pleasure to hear from you. thank you. >> thank you >> next on gps as israel presses into the south of gaza, i will ask richard haass how does this conflict end? and is there any path to peace >> corruption lies prison. governor rod blagojevich went down in a blaze of infamy. >> i've done a lot wrong. criminal night. okay. well, that's one factor. >> united states of scandal with jake tapper, back-to-back premieres tonight at nine on cnn. >> everyone our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition or strength and energy >> ensure with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein i told myself i was okay with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms with my psoriatic arthritis >> symptoms but just okay. isn't okay. >> and i was done to settling >> if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira

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a common sense solution that ensures we use community safety cameras to catch repeat offenders and hold them accountable. vote yes on e. paid before go to harrys.com slash shave to claim your $7 trial inside politics sunday with manu raju today at 11:00 a.m. this week is rarely forces entered. one of the fuel running hospitals left in the gaza strip israel's push south in gaza continues unabated despite warnings from leaders all over the world of the devastating humanitarian consequences of a ground offensive in rafah meanwhile, american, israeli, and qatari officials met in cairo this week for another round of negotiations for a ceasefire and hostage deal. though those storks are for the moment, at least stalled. so how does this conflict end? and what are the prospects for lasting peace in the region? joining me now is

richard haass, former state department official and president emeritus of the council on foreign relations richard welcome. let me ask you >> this >> seems to be a feeling among, particularly among commentators that given the enormity of the original hamas attack, the enormity of israel's response this is going to shake things up and you're going to see some peace deal cease-fire. does, does it seem likely to you in a word? >> no, i wish i shared that optimism, but i think there's understandably from the get-go for it, there's been hopes that this would end there's lot of people hoped that it might lead to a different israeli government more inclined to compromise and make peace. there's people who is hoping that it would lead to the emergence of a palestinian alternative to hamas ultimately, a peace process. i haven't given up hope on any of that, but at the moment there's precious few

indications that that is that is anything close to becoming reality so you once wrote a book in which you've talked about how negotiations and be still is only come when there's a certain kind of ripeness when they >> when things have gotten to a point where you can imagine a deal happening on that scale. do you think we are anywhere close? >> in a word? no you mentioned the ripeness idea. you need, you need leadership on the various sides to a dispute that a one willing and to able to make a deal to compromise while on the israeli side, you have a strong government are strong enough government that's able to make a deal. but there are zero disposition. indeed, they define themselves in many ways in opposition to it. instead, they prefer to continue the war as they would say, to root out hamas even though there's very little evidence that's an achievable goal. and indeed there's a chance you could see a widening of the war to 11 on the palestinian side hamas is

clearly unwilling to compromise to even accept the notion of a jewish state. and the palestinian authority is much too weak, even if it were inclined to deal with israel. so you don't have any of the ingredients. so peacemakers, diplomats can do whatever they want, but they have virtually nothing to work with and the situation. the answer is not to go home. but what we what we have to try to do is put in, put some ideas out there that over time could lead to a more ripe political contexts. and that's the most we can do right now. i think is began to change the conversation on the israeli and palestinian side >> we haven't talked about the north hezbollah. how worried are you that this, this conflict might spread? it certainly seems that hezbollah and iran have been careful and signal that they don't want this conflict to spread but

could you see it's spreading even nonetheless, just kind of accidental or ms miscalculations. >> there's two ways at least it could spread. one is the way you just suggested there has been some exchanges in the last few days, so that could be something that could could do it i also think the israeli government could credibly argue that they're in an untenable situation where upwards of 75,000 israelis who live in the northern reaches of the country aren't safe and event required to vacate. and i don't think that's a tenable situation for the long term now, ideally, given what you said for read there could be some kind of quote unquote arrangement between israel around possibly his bulla that would allow people to go back some sort of informal de facto truce or cease-fire. i don't think the only alternative is for israel to widen the war militarily i certainly hope not, but i'm not going to sit here and rule out that possibility either. bad situations can get worse in many ways. that's the character

of modern middle eastern history. >> when you look at the situation, would you seem to be saying, is you don't expect some radical change. you might just have more of the same. this is going to continue what does that do for biden politically? is it tenable for him to continue in the position he is where he's being very supportive of israel, but the israeli government is pocketing that support and making no concessions to him >> again, we're in somewhat violent agreement. i think it makes the president look weak is his instincts are to be supportive of israel and almost like an avuncular uncle to express disappointment or charo when he feels the prime minister or the israeli government are doing the wrong thing. the problem is what we're we're over four months into this crisis. and the israeli government essentially rejects american and treaties. israel essentially is doing what it wants to do in gaza may do what it wants to do in the north. so the united states only has a few options, but i would say we could provide

certain military equipment, but play certain additions on its use. there's no reason, for example, israel should be using large munitions and highly populated areas of gaza. we could start tabling our own initiatives in the united nations rather than abstaining or vetoing those of others. i think the president has to become much more forceful in trying to change the conversation. i know israelis are still footing focused on october 7. that's understandable. but i think it's time for the president to begin a prolonged conversation over the head of this government with the israeli people about october 8 and ninth and tenth and february and march and essentially make the argument that we there needs to be a political dimension. there can't be a military solution which at the end of the day, is a political challenge. he has to initiate that conversation because he doesn't have a partner. and this is prime minister who is not interested in that conversation? >> richard haass always good to hear from you. thank you. >> thank you

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intimidating somebody in the comments said, i have no idea how i got on none talk, but not mad about it. i'm going to teach you how to pray. i'm going to teach you how to meditate, how to connect with a higher power, because we need that, we need strength and comfort >> eva mckend in washington and this is cnn now for my thoughts are remarkable turn of events in europe, the de >> facto leader of europe was once angular merkel, germany centrist chancellor from 2005 to 2021 marco welcomed refugees, pursued economic integration with russia and china and insisted on balanced budgets. today, another very different woman appears to be leading the way for europe. right wing italian prime minister giorgia meloni maloney, recently demonstrated her growing cloud, which you helped convince hungarian prime

minister viktor orban to stop blocking an eu aid package for ukraine the far-right orban, who has a close relationship with putin feels the eu treats hungry unfairly meloni used to be very anti-e.u. as well. but as come to embrace it and according to the new york times, she persuaded or been that it would be better for him to work with the european union. then again, instead, she pointed to her own success in securing billions from the eu and much needed funds for italy back in 2022 when meloni came to power, some actually saw her as an italian version of orban. or perhaps an italian donald trump she was anti-immigration, anti-abortion anti lgbtq. her coalition partners were close with putin and her own party had its roots in italian fascism joe biden described her victory as something for democracies to be worried

about. but his staunch support for ukraine won him over within a year. biden was hosting her at the white house saying they had become friends and applauded her for standing with ukraine bologna has also pleased the us with a policy to china. italy had been the only major western nation to join china's signature belt and road initiative. meloni decided to pull out. this was seen as an undeniable sign of europe's pivot away from china meanwhile, her hawkish stance on immigration looks increasingly mainstream as france, the uk, and the us have tact right on the issue but she recognizes that tough measures in italy alone are inadequate to fix the problem so as african migrants continue to russian meloni has undertaken a flurry of diplomacy to stanch the flow just this week, she finalized a deal with albania to hold asylum seekers. they're

while they wait for their cases to be adjudicated. >> she >> helped forge another deal between the eu and tunisia to block migrants from crossing the mediterranean she also launched an italian initiative to invest in african countries aimed at improving conditions and thus discouraging people from leaving their for europe. and the first place in economic policy and maloney's approach reflects the growing consensus of turning away from fiscal restraint and free market reforms. she's embraced bigger deficits with higher spending and tax cuts for workers she's tried to go after big business with price controls on airfares and an extra tax on banks meloni has not succeeded in all her priorities. for instance, the deal with tunisia collapsed and illegal immigration to italy actually rose last year. and she is out of step with the western. some things like targeting the rights of

same-sex couples >> a constitutional reform. she has proposed also bears mentioning it's purported aim is to shore up at least notoriously unstable democracy. but it goes too far in a country when no group tends to win a majority, it would guarantee 55% of seats in parliament to whichever group wins the most votes. this carries a width of a law. mussolini used to cement control. the economist called it a power grab. still, meloni remains pretty popular in italy. in fact, she has the highest approval ratings of any g7 leader left-wing on economics, right-wing on cultural issues. tough but friendly this seems to be a winning formula with voters emmanuel macron is term limited in france, germany's government is driven by divisions and the united kingdom is out of the european union italy's prime minister increasingly looks like the face of europe's future. it is maloney's

moment. next on gps recent elections in pakistan's signaled a potential return to power former prime minister imran khan perhaps. but there's a big problem is in jail that story, when we return returned tonight laura coates examines the federal criminal charges against former president trump >> isn't going to be difficult to meet this burden of proof. how strong it's the government's case. the whole story with anderson cooper tonight at eight on cnn, when you're the leader, does after clean and restoration why do you make like an ever even happened happened? rough >> sir, for like, ever even happened >> okay, everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition or strengthened energy >> ensure with 27 vitamins and

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>> go to deal dash.com right now and see how much you can save vegas story of simcity. next sunday at ten on cnn >> closed captioning bronchi by meso book we've offered a free book about missile filial much for over ten years call 1808724901, or go to meso book.com it is hard to win an election from prison. but that appears to have happened in pakistan's general election that's what the washington post editorial board said of last week's stunning vote in that country candidates linked to imran khan, the former prime minister, won the most seats in pakistan's parliament. this is true even though his party was all but dismantled. and its symbol, a cricket bat band in a country where more than a third of the population is illiterate so khan would seem to be a shoo

in, to be the country's next prime minister. but he is actually ineligible as he's been locked up since august on a series of charges from corruption to leaking state secrets they're having a fraudulent marriage. khan's allies claimed the discharges or orchestrated by the country's powerful military, which is essentially run the country for most of its existence and has been at odds with constants 2022 what is going on? let me bring in a lima khan, the sister of the former prime minister, who has been regularly visiting her brother in jail. she joins me now from islamabad i lima han, welcome. let me ask you first, what do you think this this vote, there's overwhelming vote for your brother represents what are people voting for when they're voting for him? >> thank you for eat for having

me on the show and being able to give my brother's message because he is in jail. and there are very few people who can see him. this either the few family members or the lawyers keep in mind that he's in solitary confinement. he is kept in a tiny cell. but what has happened is that people have rejected a system which comes from, it's, i think as archaic, it's coming from the last century we, this is a new era of social media and young people. and i don't think they would like to continue the system by somebody else decides their fate. what brand can really taught them. he's not a politician, but he was a mentor to a nation and he's built a nation and its was an indication of what he's, what he's signifies, what he stood for, and what it stood for. was that you have a right in this country. you have a right to

justice. you have a right to education. you have a right to help systems. you belong to this country. he's better. he's built a nation. and i think the happiest moment my brother had was 8 february when people came out and understood what he was trying to do for them and they came out in a shock to the system. i think it's not just to pakistan. this might become a trend for the rest of the elections coming in this in the world. for the 2024, that they came out, they had no candidates by the way, no party symbol, no candidates that no knowledge of who the candidate was they came looking for. their own symbol and they just came out families came out. they came out dressed up as if they weren't a festival. and they came out to vote for a change and that change. i do not i don't

believe that that gains can be stopped now, no matter how many mandates are stolen from the people so let me ask you, what is going to happen next because the other two parties have kind of banded together. the military seems to blast it they intend to form a government. can you lead protests on the street? is there any is there any possible way that mass action can stop this? this process where does appear the two parties in the military are trying to move forward. >> this is i wouldn't send it uprising. i think i'm very proud of pakistanis. they have risen they intelligently voted i think one of the most central role that was played by both for the social media. it is how young people have connected with each other >> this was not an >> underground movement. it was a social media and everybody thought this was a young children. it was i think they treated it with disdain that it

says young people, but do not forget out of 20,240 million people, hundred and 20 million people are under the age of 30 so this was i would say, uprising and rejection of a system from last century internet has made them independent. you might say that they're illiterate. maybe they don't have literacy. but they have knowledge and they have been very smart about it based silent about it. and they came out and cost of their board and the vote was a weapon that they used an ai. that is why i would say we're very proud of what, what pakistan is have shown to the rest of the world thank you so much >> thank you. thank you for john gps. >> i >> bring you my take on tucker carlson's trip to moscow and what it says about right-wing politics in america today

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to deal dash.com right now and see how much you can save united states of scandal with jake tapper tonight at nine on cnn and now here's my take. >> what, what's darker? carlson's interview with russian president vladimir putin got a lot of attention. but i was most struck by carlson's reaction to his visit to moscow. his first ever he was not just impressed. it left him radicalized and enraged at his own government where to begin. perhaps with the obvious reminder that living in moscow, if you criticize the government can mean prison or death sometimes both. >> then i was in

>> dubai a few days after the interview, clean debt carlson put forward a bizarre hodgepodge of assertions. he thought the architecture, food and service, and moscow was better than in any american city. >> really >> moscow outside of a small historic center, is filled with drabs, soviet era concrete buildings and while the food in moscow can be quite good, better than new york or san francisco you need to get out more tucker. many of his jibes was simply untrue. he praised moscow saying it is one of several wonderful places to live. because unlike america russia apparently do suffer from quote rampant inflation unquote but using the russian government's own data from last month, the country's inflation rate is 7.4%, almost two-and-a-half times that of america's that's why interest rates in russia, or 16%, about three times higher than in

america. in a short video segments, shot in moscow, calls and shops at a local grocery store and marvels the groceries to feed a russian family for a week costs maybe a quarter as much as similar grocery please would cost in america. this outraged him but russia is per capita gdp is approximately $15,000 compared to america's, which is approximately $76,000. stuff costs more in rich countries, then in poorer ones, carlson should go shopping and mexico where his groceries would also be much cheaper perhaps he'll game newfound respect for the mexican government carlson also marvels that the grand jury of a subway station contrasting moscow subways favorably with new york surface now while it's true that moscow subways are excellent, the stations are so

grant because they were built by joseph stalin at huge public expense to showcase the superiority of soviet communism in contrast, new york subways are a product of capitalism, having been built and operated through public, private partnerships of various kinds, which are more budget conscious it's always been true that centralized autocracies can marshal the entire resources of society to build great vanity projects docker should go next to see the pyramids and the taj mahal. they're amazing causes entire riff about russia is really about america he said, i grew up in a country that had cities like moscow and abu dhabi, and dubai and singapore and tokyo new york is one of his favorite cities, he says, but as he sees it, american cities are now broken carson was, born in 1969. so the new york of the 1970s, he saw

remembers, was in fact the city of rampant crime riots, and graffiti, a city so badly mismanaged that it newly declared bankruptcy in 1970, 70 devon blackout became legendary for the massive looting and crime it triggered more than 800,000 people fled the city that decade and real estate values plummeted it wasn't just new york, san francisco in that era was seen as a hotbed of hippies, drugs pornography, and radical experimentation. the movie dirty harry, or train out of control, urban crime, was set in san francisco in the 1970s crime rates in new york today, like in major american cities in general, are way down from their levels, even in the 19 and 1990s calls and speaks enviously of cities like tokyo singapore, abu dhabi, and dubai i've been to all these cities

many times. some of them in the last few months, and they are indeed wonderful in their own distinctive ways. >> but what >> striking about all of them is that they are somewhat tame and subdued the product of authoritarian governments or conformist culture, or both american cities are different. they are the product of decentralization and diversity and democracy. jane jacobs, the great writer on urban life always described the best cities as kind of bottom up systems. seemingly anarchic, but actually organic and in the long run, far superior to the abstract drawings of central planners american cities are expressions of democracy. places where people have to negotiate differences and find ways to live together that makes them messier and dirtier and sometimes chaotic but perhaps that is what has made these cities so vibrant and innovative. and why they had

been at the forefront in making america the country that leads the world and economics, technology, culture, and power once upon a time, american conservatives praised america's organic communities, rooted in freedom and choice built bottom-up, not top-down. but the new populist, right, despises these cities and that disgust is in part a rejection of modern pluralistic american democracy itself. increasingly, they are dazzled by the clean and orderly ways of dictatorships, populist rhetoric, arians, and absolute monarchies after all, say what you will about putin. he makes the subways run on time go to cnn.com slash fareed for link to my washington post column this week thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. >> we'll >> see you next week