>> now france directly criticize the u.s.'s veto, calling that decision regrettable while the uk has repeated its call to halt all fighting inside the gaza strip and to let humanitarian aid reach the million fans of displaced people by that conflict. and thank you for watching news night. laura coates live starts right now >> now, have you thought dobbs, we're just about abortion void. why have some news for you tonight on laura coates live? >> you know, when roe v. wade was overturned, there were all sorts of questions about what would happen once the issue of abortion. and back to the states, they wondered what would happen with medical abortion using drugs like mifepristone remember that would contraceptives be impacted. but did you think you to the day when it impacted,

say ivf well, here we are because the alabama supreme court ruling that frozen embryos created through ivf our children babies, quote, kept alive in a cryogenic nursing nursery while they awaited implantation. >> now, >> think about what that means for the hundreds of thousands of american to undergo ivf every single year that could include in a very likely does include maybe you were for someone you know, in a moment, we're going to talk to somebody who is a very familiar face who will tell us her own personal story. >> but >> does this ruling maybe go further than you imagined? does it mean, for example, child support kicks in? >> for >> embryos? >> how about custody or support from the >> state for embryos? and what does it mean? something maybe goes wrong. criminal prosecution could it mean or maybe civil liability? well, in this case that we're talking

about this alabama supreme court ruled on frozen embryos that were destroyed when they were dropped. on the floor. >> and the ruling says the embryos would be protected under the state's wrongful death act or death of a minor act. so it could frankly be applied quite broadly >> you know what? >> this might just become the blueprint, say, in other states. because these states, you see on the screen right now, they broadly defined personhood as beginning at fertilization. and that of course has huge implications for ivf and also for abortion. i mean, we've seen how for so many, how disruptive the pros roe v. world weighed can be. i mean, remember the story of kate cox. that's the 31 year-old texas mom of two who filed a lawsuit to end a pregnancy that her dr. said could threaten her life and have a chance to have a chance that she may have to have a child and the future. >> the >> texas supreme court turned

her down, leaving her with two choices carry a non-viable pregnancy to term, potentially risking her own life or leave texas to get an abortion elsewhere. now, remember, she left the state, but everybody has that opportunity to leave a statement saying was frankly, for even access to do ivf. so the big question when a state's law might collide with the most intensely personal decisions people can make. >> its >> whole different level of government intrusion and it lead to a really big question of what could happen next >> i want to bring >> in alison camerata. i seen an anchor and correspondent for the whole story with anderson cooper. she's a former board member and support group leader of resolve, the national infertility association allison first went public with their own fertility journey nearly 14 years ago, fallen to me miscarriages and three rounds of failed ivf. the fourth round worked and her twins were born

alison. thank you so much for being with us tonight and sharing your deeply personal story again and again, it's so helpful for people to understand what was it like for you to go through this process? >> look, it was 19 years ago and i still remember it as one of the most painful and emotional roller coasters that i've ever been on. the stakes are so high by the time you resort to ivf, you have tried everything you, desperately want to have a child and you desperately want to have a family. and so it's a really trying time for couples, not just women men go through it as well and it's really hard. i am a grateful that this modern medical miracle of ivf was available to me 19 years ago and that i have my two healthy, beautiful daughters as a

result, it's it's unbelievable to think about what you went through, what so many people go through. i'm glad you mentioned the family more broadly. men and women. actually, according to the cdc, i was surprised to know that more than 238,000 patients in the us had fertility treatments in 2021 alone. so what will this mean for women who desperately want to have a child and are pulling all of their hope now in an ivf treatment if this is the state of affairs, it will mean that fewer babies are born. and it will mean that fewer families can have children >> and is that really the goal? i feel that this is the law of unintended consequences that the justices didn't think that part through. these are people, people who are going through infertility and people who resort to ivf are the most motivated parents in the world. they are desperate to have a child and have tried everything. and so some of them

won't be able to have children. now, i2 looked up some statistics, actually, our producers did. and here's one from just alabama. okay. so just alabama and we only we don't know everything because only five of the eight fertility clinics there reported to the cdc. but in 2021, that was the last year that we had these stats for 400 babies were born that year using for 30 treatments. >> so >> those are 400 babies who wouldn't exist. and so is that what the justices were hoping for to erase those 400 future children a year in alabama. so it is going to be a big problem for people who desperately wanted child is saying to think about, you mentioned the clinics have actually provide this service if you have this, that law of unintended consequences could mean that those clinics close >> indeed, they will close because as you know, once you're threatened with legal jeopardy, once there's all this ambiguity about who will be prosecuted and what will happen

if you destroy these frozen embryos. at some point? it just becomes easier for clinics to say. we'll just pack up shop here and we'll go to another state or we'll just close our doors altogether because they can't live with that under that threat of legal jeopardy all the time >> that doesn't change the need for ivf, but it does change the access point for so many people. and as you know, ever since roe v wade was overturned in june of 2022, reproductive rights have been under attack, and i think when you, people often thought about abortion and they thought about for decades the stereotypical need for who they thought was seeking abortion-related services. they saw rarely contemplated in that narrative, people who desperately wanted to have a child. a, we're unable to do so. and now this is the next frontier. it seems alison yeah, one thing that this won't solve is infertility so the world health organization categorizes

infertility as a disease. it is a disease of women and men. >> so >> there's a whole bunch of infertility that is based on male factor as well >> so that's not going away this law in alabama won't change that. people, couples will still have a fertility. there's another statistic that 42% of americans say they have used fertility treatments or know someone who has. so this has wide reaching repercussions. >> these >> are your people in your family have used fertility treatments, your neighbors i've used it at people don't always talk about it, but they have used it a lot. >> and >> so where does that lead people who have this disease who have been diagnosed with a disease where they left in alabama where are they laughed indeed, in the glenn, the access i know so many women who have gone this route. and i know they're beautiful children as a result, alison camerata. thank you so much. >> laura great to see you. >> for me to for more on the

immediate impact of this ruling. i want to bring in dana assessment. she is the deputy executive director of pregnancy justice, a legal non-profit, the defense woman who faced charges related to any pregnancy outcome just in and of itself data and think about there being a nice he'd for that service is stunning for a variety of reasons. but the alabama supreme court, they have now essentially ruled that ivf embryos are people what is your response to this finding and ruling >> well, it's been years. in fact, decades in the making and you just discussed the connection to the overturning of roe in the dobbs decision. >> the idea that >> fetuses and now cryogenically frozen embryo those are people has been an agenda of the anti-abortion movement for a long time. and this is sort of the next frontier. >> the alabama

>> constitution was amended in 2018 to protect the sanctity of quote, unborn life. the alabama supreme court, the same court that they issued this decision last week, ruled in 2013 that women could be prosecuted for quote, child abuse for behavior during pregnancy. so one could be criminalized for abusing a child before one is even a parent this has been a coordinated and long-term strategy that is connected to abortion rights. it's connected to pregnancy and all pregnancy outcomes. and it's connected to ivf. >> but there is a disconnect, right? there's one. we're talking about, somebody who is currently pregnant and somebody who is trying to be there is there are a lot of steps that must first take place to go from having a frozen embryo to actually having an implanted to then being pregnant. why does this skip so many steps? >> well, the concept here is

fetal personhood, and now we're talking embryonic personhood. >> the idea that fetus could have the same rights to life, to liberties, the same constitutional rights as pregnant people and all other people under the law and the constitution russian of your state so the thread here is the idea that if you designate fetuses fertilized eggs and embryos with rights than where does the line we, how do you draw a line? and we're seeing this extreme march, this encroachment of fetal personhood earlier and earlier and earlier we're not talking about a viability line. we're not talking about even at the moment of quote, unquote, fertilization or, or implantation, we're talking about frozen embryos that are not even internal to the pregnant person. >> the idea has >> been emerging over several decades, connected to the

anti-abortion movement. but it's been, but the line has been moving further and further and further. so that's the through line, even though we're talking about people who desperately want to be pregnant but when we undermine the right to abortion or undermine the right to reproductive health care and freedom. it doesn't just impact people who seek abortions. it impacts people who experience pregnancy loss. it impacts people who have were pregnant and want to be pregnant and it impacts people who merely, simply hope to be pregnant a really important point. i think about the umbrella being reproductive rights and freedom, as opposed to individual services that fall with under, underneath that umbrella. but you know, your organization says that there are at least 11 states and in which have a broad definition of personhood that begins at fertilization. so where does that leave? women and men if you've got these 11 states with such a broad definition >> so these laws were all passed before the dobbs

decision. >> okay. and >> many of them were passed in this theoretical let's, let's call it way that the people of this state believed that life begins at fertilization here at the moment of conception, or that we believe as alabama's constitution now says, in the sanctity of unborn life, practically speaking, this is the first decision from a state supreme court where we're seeing this implemented in such a way, post-dobbs this is a reality that we have been preparing for. this is something that we have been talking about for a long time, but we are now seeing state courts take those fetal personhood laws and constitutional provisions and apply them with very real consequences. and i just think that it's important to recognize that there are women and pregnant people across this country begging courts to recognize their right to life, their right to survive their pregnancies, and yet what this court is doing is it's twisting language too designate

cryogenically frozen embryos as having their own right to life. the balance here is just so outrageous and so dehumanizing to pregnant people and two women and to all people with the capacity for pregnancy that we are now protecting cryogenically frozen embryos with rights that have been didn't now, two pregnant people who are waiting until they've become so sick that their, that their right to life can now be, can now be actual actionable >> it truly is selling in a course, the lawyer in me thinks about all the different ways in which one could now think. does this mean that child support payments would be do does this mean that they are having certainly rides that are as a child would have with a factor in the family law proceedings. how about the state's responsibility as in terms of funding and beyond this, has a through line that's even more expansive. the event we're talking about here today, dame assessment. thank you so much for breaking this all down. i really appreciate it. >> thank you >> and there is intriguing news

tonight on that former fbi informant charged with lying about president biden is son hunter i remember him. >> well, he >> claims he was fed information by wait for it >> russia. >> now, where have i heard something like that before? >> record down next >> laura coates live, brought to you by bristol myers hcm is a serious heart condition affecting >> as many as 1.200 people like me and make it can impact how you feel and what you can do >> i still felt tired on my beta-blocker. >> so i talked to my cardiologist about treatment advances in hcm that gave me new options. >> he was a breakthrough for me. >> that conversation with big for me. >> talk to your cardiologist today and visit hcm real talk.com for more information

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>> doug customize and say, wouldn't liberty bibi, liberty boucher literally bibi to mark down one that was nice. i think you're supposed to stand over there. >> oh, >> thank you. >> so a couple of more. well, this will rent will go quick, li brew, smith, liberal review li movie boo, and me. >> he's only pay for what you need >> every day. >> i'm elizabeth wagmeister in los angeles. >> and this is cnn while there was quite a bombshell admission to the fbi tonight, the former fbi informant, the one charged with >> lying about the biden family, doesn't ukraine. well, now he says it was actually russian intelligence officials who gave the fake stories to him. just to remind you all how we got here. >> the

>> informant, alexander smirnoff, was arrested last week, charged with making debunked allegations to the fbi. now, what were those allegations? while the indictment says that he falsely claimed that joe and hunter biden so at multi-million-dolla r bribes from burisma, the ukrainian energy company, where hunter biden once served on the board. house republicans have used that story as a justification for their efforts to try to impeach president biden. i want to bring in peter strzok, former deputy of the fbi's counterintelligence division theater. this story is it keeps going. layers are being added now, the question of course, about who gave the information. so if the knowledge that smirnoff lives the fbi about the bidens wasn't bad enough. now, we're learning the he says that he got those lies from russia. it's 2024. you and i remember at 26 teen and there are some similarities now, two election

meddling. do you see them >> oh, absolutely. and i mean, what's interesting here is that he upon his arrest in an interview said that he got this information, this disinformation from officials associated with russian intelligence. so let's take a step back and what you just said this information is being used by sitting members of congress as the basis to impeach the president of the united states. it is being used by these same individuals who are voting against providing aid to ukraine to defend themselves against the russian invasion. it is this disinformation from russian intelligence since is being used apparently at least 85 times by sean hannity in 2023 alone to try and undermine the biden presidency. so one, if you look at russian intelligence operations, this is a stunning success for them. on the other hand, you've got to ask real questions about these members of congress in particular, who were warned, repeat heatedly that this information was likely coming

from are associated with russian intelligence and nevertheless chose to use it in the pursuit of their political agenda >> well, peter, how do we know that he is telling the truth now about the sora if he is being discredited as somebody who is lying why trust the source now? >> well, that's a great question. and in fact, you really have to ask that question given the fact that he's been charged by the department of justice for lying to the fbi. i thank every fbi agent who's run sources and i've run hundreds of sources. you walk into that relationship with a base line of wanting to try us, but really verified. you're always aware that somebody might be spinning the truth, that somebody might be outright lying to you. but i think in this case, beyond what he may be saying to the fbi, beyond what he might have lied to the fbi. there are many other avenues of information that the fbi can use to corroborate what smirnoff told them over the years and that might include infant formation from other sources, information from foreign intelligence gathering by the cia, the nsa, or others. so there are ways to corroborate this, but there's a

deeply uneasy feeling that we knew see that a source that again, this source was opened in 2010. realize at the end that he's been lying to the question is when did that line really? sorry >> and of course, when did the information, when was it provided from say, russia, as he says, it has, if that's in fact the whole truth of the story. but taking a step back why does it, serve russia for the us to have this kind of chaos? what is their larger goal >> well, i think they've got at least two phone goal. one is to discredit joe biden. i think they looked and clearly as the us intelligence community concluded in 2016, and then again in 2020 russia sought to advance the presidency or the candidacy of donald trump at the expense of his opponents. so one, they see the person in charge in the united states of donald trump being favorable to russia in inches. the second goal has nothing really to do with who is elected in the united states. the second goal

is to sow division within the united states it's at the same time to undermine the image of american democracy. not only in the united states, but around the world, to be able to show to our western european allies, to our allies around the globe and the developing world and everywhere else. hey, look, see, american democracy isn't really everything. it's cracked up to be. there are no better than vladimir putin biden and you really can't take american exceptionalism is anything but a bunch of nonsense and sadly, i think we've seen an extraordinary success by russia and accomplishing both of those goals. and i really hope this is a moment that causes at least within the united states, causes the body politic to take a look at what's going on and say, okay, enough, we need to stop this while you have to wonder where the course correction will begin. if this impeachment inquiry is still very much on the table. peter strzok. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> up next, donald trump, once again, comparing his political

and his legal fortunes, or shall we say misfortunes to russian op physician leader alexey navalny. and tonight, president biden is addressing it very sorry to hear about your father. father, mother. thank you. well, that's you know, it's a little better that's to let you go >> you always have to be the center of attention. >> i have to accept that we're wired like luna. >> yes. small petty. you're walking virus. larry >> an authenticity involved in caring about oneself yellows not going to fly, buckle up >> there's toothpastes, wife, and there's chris 3d white strips, whitens like a $400 professional treatment i'm fine.

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better absorption than regular coke. putin, kunal, the brand i trust >> more liebermann at the pentagon. >> and this cnn donald trump, making a pretty astounding claim tonight and a fox town hall. >> this >> well, you'd have to hear for yourself of all name is a very sad situation and he's very brave. he was very brave guy because he went back he could to stay away and frankly probably would have been a lot better off staying away and talking from outside of the country as opposed to having to go back in. and it's a horrible

thing. but it's happening in our country to we are turning into a communist country in many ways. and if you look at it, i'm the leading candidate. i get into i never heard of being indicted before i was i got indicted four times. i have eight or nine trials all because of the fact that, you know, this all because of the fact that i'm in politics forum of navalny. it is a form of communism or fascism that's right >> donald trump is comparing his $355 fine for fraudulently inflating the value of his properties to a political prisoner who stood up to a dictator, was poisoned, throw in a penal colony and has since died. under mysterious circumstances. president biden responding tonight saying that vladimir putin is in fact responsible, quote, trump fails to even condemn him >> it's >> outrageous joining me now,

former congressman joe walsh and platelet commentator, maria cardona. let's just start right here because the idea that you have a former president forget a leading candidate, former president, suggesting somehow that we are turning into a communist country >> it's mind-boggling. >> it's astounding. laura and it is something that should we say this too often that it's kind of lost meaning, but we should be very concerned, very scared about the smidgeon of possibility, perhaps even more of a smidgen that this man can enter the oval office again because everything that he's talking about, everything that he's saying are full-on lies. >> but his supporters >> believe him. they not only believe him, they eat it up and every single time that he is in court, it helps his support among those who are following him off the cliff. frankly, what it doesn't do though, is it doesn't help him in a

general election. and this i think is going to be something that he's going to find out here pretty quickly when he wraps up the nomination, which he's about to do. >> he's >> going to run into the general election, which is where all of these convictions, everything that he's saying about are not saying about navalny and vladimir putin not being able to condemn vladimir putin for the murder of his political opponent. in fact, i think that he admires him for that the all of that is going to really affect him among independents, among former republicans, among people who he needs. >> if he's going to have a chance when it >> it's ugly and it's we don't say this enough about trump caddy me off. this is anti american this isn't the first time he said this. he, he's always saying crap like this, like this happens here and we kill people here and more bad here, and we've got bad guys here. this is ugly. blame america anti-american bs and i wish biden in the look,

my former colleagues aren't going to call this out but i hope the democrats jump on this because this is anti-american crap that needs to be called out. >> i mean, he's suggesting that his legal troubles are a kind of navalny. i guess he's trying to use that phrase to suggest, i don't know what but the idea that his legal troubles based on allegations, some of which include grand jury indictments, are somehow analogous to what is happened to navalny, who by the way, we still don't know the full circumference of his death, but on that point there is some exclusive reporting tonight that cnn has that biden is actually directing some of the senior aides, maria, to focus more aggressively. trump and the inflammatory comments because they might maybe have forgotten wanting him to make sure they know all that he is saying is that the right strategy? >> i absolutely think it's the right strategy. at a g. and i'm glad that they're doing it. i hope that he lends leans full-on hundred and 80,000%

into it because we are, i think at a point where all of the energy and the mobilization right now is in the republican side because they're the ones who were having this crazy primary but i do think that we have to remind people what trump did in his first four years and what he has not been shy and saying he would do if he gets another four years, if he gets another chance at the white house, and voters are focused on their own lives. and there is this kind of you know, voter not, not necessarily apathy, but sort of forgetfulness of what it was that trump did what he said every single day that chaos, the crazy, the confusion, the criminality, the cruelty that he brought and will continue to bring more. he says trump's magic is. he says 179 cruel, ugly, intolerant anti-american things a day. and so our eyes just glaze over in america, the

american people need to be reminded about it constantly. >> but i do wonder the polling suggests that assuming they don't have amnesia, that tool, his base wants, oh, they know who he is it's it may embrace it so is there some level of patronizing that's going on to suggest if i just remind you who he is, maybe then you wouldn't support them they know we is and it's boredom. >> most of them do. i'm talking about the great swath of people in the middle. and by the way, the president, the current president has an issue a lot of voters have a problem and consider him unacceptable because of his age. he's got to deal with that. but now you've got all these undecided voters who do know that trump's unacceptable. they worry that biden sudden acceptable biden needs to remind them why he's unacceptable. >> and that's exactly what this campaign, the general election campaign that we were just talking about earlier is going to be all about. it's going to be about this contrast between

joe biden, a man who is there, he gets another four years. he wants to continue to boost the economy for everyone, protect our rights and freedoms, to protect our democracy. and donald trump trump, who is a fraudster, a sex offender, a would want to be dictator and is in it all for him, sony hear biden say, i'm tired of donald trump bad mouth thing, america. i want to hear that constantly. >> well, we'll see if he starts to say it you've heard from joe wall. so you go joe real so much >> up next. >> the search for an 11 year-old missing girl in texas, coming to a very sad and and an arrest warrant for her killer could come at any moment for a man who lived on her parents property dianne not guilty. >> i am resigning administration officials destroyed my cover >> politics. we're great power questionable decision making,

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>> go to deal dash.com right now and see how much you can save >> vegas. >> the story of sin city. sunday ten on cnn a tragic ending in the search for a missing 11 year-old girl in texas >> officials say the body of adraee >> cunningham was located in the trinity river. >> tonight based on all of the evidence that law enforcement has collected they are in the process of preparing the appropriate >> arrest warrants for don steven mcdougal at this time, we believe the appropriate arrest warrant is going to be for capital murder in the death of adraee cunningham andriy. was >> last seen thursday morning on her way to school, but police say she never made it on the school bus dougl has been in custody since friday for an unrelated assault charge. he's friends with adraee, his

father, and lived in a trailer behind the family's home he would sometimes walk adraee to the school bus. >> he has a >> lengthy criminal history. let's bring in cnn, senior law enforcement analyst, andrew mccabe. this is just a nightmare scenario for so many reasons and we wishes could have ended differently and maybe finding her safe and sound. but that is not the case. but this idea that this person, a suspected killer, would be on the family property is stunning to people >> it really as i mean, it's absolutely heartbreaking story, right? anytime you lose a child that's just the absolute worst tragedy. do you can imagine. >> but it's also hard to learn more about this situation and not ask some questions about about having a person with a record like this with a history like this series of criminal convictions, some of which included an enticing a minor which he served, which he pled no contest to and serve two years in prison for like this

is not somebody you want living on your property, walking your daughter to school. >> interestingly enough as well. i understand that there was something about him joining in on the search, and i know you and i have spoken in the past before about looking at vigils, for example that sometimes the suspect's themselves or so interested in the law enforcement process, they want to be a part of it. >> it's fascinating. laura we've seen it time and time again in these, in these incredibly tragic cases. sometimes you have offenders who are obsessed with law enforcement, almost like boths, and they want to participate or at least keep track of the investigation. other times it's simply for self-defense of reasons. they just want to understand how close to the police are getting and what sort of progress they're making any investigation. but it is not it's not uncommon for subjects to participate or attempt to participate in the

investigation in some way, to law enforcement being aware of that, they often look around the people who might be helping and start to look for red flags of those names. >> of course, of course, particularly at larger event and it's like vigils and things like that in which if you were someone who was guilty of the offense, you could slide in or out of these large gatherings without having direct interactions with law enforcement or making too much of a scene of yourself a little bit different if you're going out on a small search party the other people you're searching with are going to know you were there. so that's a little bit more of a commitment. but absolutely law enforcement is aware of that kind of common trait. >> you know, i have to say the fact that they were not aware that she had not attended school that day as a parent is just so stunning and heartbreaking to me knowing all the safeguards are supposed to be in place to ensure that if your child is laid or if they're not in school through supposed to be a protocol that kicks in this time. we did not know until the end of the

school day and she didn't come off the school, but it's really amazing to me. hard to understand. i hope that the authorities involved take a hard look at the processes that led to that. active apparent negligence. i >> do i do wonder what happens next now that there is somebody as a suspect, did they focus on a singular person or will it be expanded even beyond him? >> well, it's going to, that's going to depend on how strong the evidence they have is and i should say this is just another example of a case that might very well have been solved based on law enforcement's ability to access cell phone, cell tower data, right. so we know from the comments they made at the at the press conference today that they used his cell phone to be able to backtrack the places had he had gone when he was with adraee. so an incredibly powerful tool for law enforcement to be able to access that data. >> this poor little girl? yeah

>> family, it's just unbelievable. andrew mccabe. thank you so much. thanks. i wish it was a different story to talk about entirely up. next, key testimony. now backed up finding willis says that she mostly uses cash, right? well, a witness is now confirming this cnn that she didn't use cash or entrapped with her top prosecutor was a deep history though in all this, we'll dig into more of it and just a moment >> vegas the story of sin city sunday at ten on cnn. >> it's here introducing the all new club, jenny howard, by jenny craig. everything you need to support weight loss, wellness, and healthy living in one place on-demand and on your schedule, get access to delicious meal choices, prepared and ready in minutes one-on-one coaching and personal life this meal plans, easy convenient, everything on-demand whatever your goal you're in control. start now

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napa valley, speaking out to cnn saying that he's served fani willis and nathan wade on their california trip. and after a two-hour for wine tasting, finding willis reached into her purse and pulled out about $4 in cash to pay >> how rare is it for someone to use cash to pay their tab? >> that's not ridiculously rare, but it is rare. it's it's the odd ball, odd man out more often than not, it's i'd say an expression 95% of the time it's credit card and how much the same number to guests. >> and how much was it ultimately there were two bottles of wine. they were 175 apiece and a single tasting. so 350, about a little over $400 now it might seem odd to get very granular level in a case like this. remember, she is not actually on trial. bear trying to disqualify her from the

case. and there are inventories were focusing on whether she had a financial benefit from having been in this relationship with nathan wade. they're trying to get to this decision and discussion of whether she did in fact, financially benefit and one, whether trying to prove this is talk about how much she paid in cash, whether she reimburse the charges and beyond. that's why we are here and she has says that she pays for things mostly in cash and what did you pay for on that trip? >> i gave him much less cash at the time, probably four or $500. and then i paid for a bunch of stuff. i think we did two different line tools that you do >> a bottom >> both wine while we were there and the siblings that you do that trip did not cause me a lot of money. i might took like $750 in cash on me because we want it gone very long. and then

>> i only asked if you paid in cash. i don't even have emails. >> when i travel, i always say this gave a very big deal about that entire testimony continues this very big day. my next guest, a pulitzer prize winning writer robbing iran says, there's a long history of this in black and latino communities. and she joins me now, robin, i'm so glad to see you to me. are many people have been talking about this cash aspect of everything. it became a huge part of testimony between herself, also her father testifying as much people were making jokes about the idea of how much cash one should have, et cetera. but you saw this differently and you wrote about it for the washington post. what was your thought? >> well i would back up just a little bit and say that when the special prosecutor, nathan wade, was talking >> about these cash payments, i did find it odd and somewhat unconvincing that someone would walk around with so much a giant wads of cash but when she took the stand, i thought it

was a completely different story because she put it into context. she talked about how this was something that her father had taught her about being prepared, about in case of emergency, always have cash on you. and it also i think just sort of harb back at to a lot of things that an older generation used to say to me, my own father would take out lots of cash when we would go on a family vacation. now, he wasn't paying for airline tickets in cash, but he would pay the dinner bill in cash and it goes back to, a distrust of financial institutions it goes to the difficulty that a lot of people of color have an, have had getting credit. and i think it also goes to this sense that cash will always get you out of the jam it caches always reliable. it's the old thing about grandma putting money

under the mattress. i mean, it's not something that's sort of eccentric. it's something that i think really cuts to a sense of. i want to be independent and i want to be my own authority. >> in some ways. listening to testimony. it became a kind of rorschach test for some people whether you had had this story as part of your life or not, you related to it or this was a completely foreign concept that was rooted in may. we're talking about it in race and beyond that in and of itself seemed odd to people that there was a focus on ones race and rearing as it related to one's carrying around of cash. but another aspect of it was in you are reading her body language. you were seeing the indignation and the way that she carries herself and spoke to the special not council, but the attorney in that case. >> you saw that >> as indicative of something different? >> yeah. i mean, i think everyone could recognize that when she came in and sat down,

that there was a degree of of of anger and fury that was there but a big degree what, i thought was interesting was that it wasn't so much on her face. it was in her tone and it was in her body language because she sat in that witness chair. she wasn't sitting upright the whole time. the way that witnesses often do because they're nervous, or they're trying to sort of put their best foot forward. she was sitting back in the chair. she was almost reclining in this chair and i kind of compared it to that notion of man spreading when men sort of take up more space than their body really needs when they're sitting on a subway or on a bleacher it was as if she was doing the same thing. she was taking up physical space in that courtroom. and i think some of that certainly was coming from her fury. but i think it also

was a way of sort projecting a certain dominance in that courtroom. and it felt for a few good while that the judge was not really the one who was in charge of the room. >> well, we'll have to see we can continue to >> unpack something, tells me that the body language that testimony those moments in court will be cited for a long time and also looked at by a potential jury pool and others looking at this case and the future. really interesting to see how it's been viewed by so many people especially in including you. thank you, robin. thank you. robin, given everyone. thank you so much and thank you all for watching our coverage. coverage continues he, has his. whole life ahead i'm not don't want to ms anything i, want to make the most of it

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