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many cities as well. several police departments from san francisco to virginia. today have not been able to get calls. >> and right now, the service tracking website, downdetector.com is reporting an increase and outage reports more than 61,000 and just the last hour, some reporting no signal at all and being unable to receive or answer calls. a cnn has reached out to at&t and other providers to find out more for information. but over the course of the last several hours still waiting to hear back about what exactly is going on here. >> so many questions this morning with us at the table scene and law enforcement analyst john miller and yet lance ulanoff, editor in chief of techradar, gentlemen would just start with you the most concerning thing obviously isn't the case of an emergency and you've got from san francisco, louisville, virginia yeah. i mean, tennessee west virginia. all these police departments saying like we cannot get your calls. so what's your reporting this morning >> i spoke to the nypd. the nypd says that they're getting their calls into 911 including from at&t customers. but that's what they know about

which is what's working. there's no way to gauge it's from the nypd's perspective, get through who's not getting through. they also say that their systems, their phones are working now, at&t is interesting among carriers because at&t also runs first net, first net is the emergency responders telephone network. so even in crisis, even when things aren't supposed to be working, this is the network that's supposed to have priority. so first responders and emergency services can communicate during crisis according to nypd, at least. that's working. spoke to fbi, their cyber people are monitoring this, but they don't know oh, that there's anything nefarious going on. it's just something they would monitor because as we heard the fbi director testified just a couple of weeks ago, along with general nakasone from the nsa, foreign governments have literally spent years incrementally trying to get

further and further into critical infrastructure. now there's no indication that there is anything here that isn't technical, but that always looms in the background. so all these things are happening at once. >> and lins, i think that's the biggest concern right now, is there's so much we don't know. there's so many unanswered questions. and the really dark probabilities here are really dark which we have no evidence of right now when people we're just trying to figure it out when you see this, when you report on what's been happening this morning, what comes to mind for you? >> well, it's multiple networks. all right, so that's, that immediately is something that's a little bit concerned because we've seen over the years you, many individual networks go down. that happens, not that often, but it does happen, but then it's contained to a network we have at&t, we have t-mobile, we have verizon, and of course all the smaller networks which are called mva knows which basically use their networks to operate at all of them show downtime at the same time. now, down detector is based on reports from consumers about their experience. and i also been on social media. and again, centralized texas, ohio

some in new york, san francisco. so we're seeing in his pocket areas. but what's interesting is that it's not a quick recovery. we also have tried to reach out to the networks to get information out. what's happening both on social media and other ways. nothing yet, but at some point they're going to have to explain what's going on. but again, the fact that it's multiple networks is probably the only reason that i have a greater concern than normal, that it's all at the same time, all the networks and they're not all using the same equipment. >> what about the potential for just atmospheric involvement here? like we are talking about sons on that's right, right. something i mean, when that generally affect multiple networks, well, that's that's, that's an idea certainly that's possible. it would be nice to know somebody. i've heard no reports about this. i've heard reports about sunspots. so again, without the network stepping forward to give us some detail usually on social media, they were at least say we're aware that some of your experiencing network issues we're working on resolving the problem. this indicates the fact that they

haven't over many hours, that they don't necessarily know what the problem is. and that again, cup says, will wear, go find it. what's going on? >> i think that's one of the problems to you go in the at&t website right now, they're trying to sell you a phones. there's no box on the side that says we understand, you know, thousands of customers are having issues, we're working to identify and resolve it. if you go on the department of homeland security 30 csa, the critical infrastructure website, there's no alert. there this is a 24 hour a day service and it's a 24 hour a day problem. they need to have a 24 hour a day public posture to respond. it's not the kind of thing you'd sit out until 930 after the morning meeting and figure out what to say about it. but they need to do better. >> the other thing to keep in mind is that more people are switching away from landlines. so the us to have the fallback of well, my cell phone isn't working. i'll use my landline. guess what? many people don't have them anymore. so they're really, they can be cut off, cut off from calls and from work because everyone hotspots what their cell phones. >> we should remind people if they do have wi-fi at home, they can make calls with like a

facetime audio. >> yes. suggests they should be from what i'm hearing, there are no issues on the outside the internet back on nothing going on there. so this is really on the cell network side and tech seems to be working and a lot of places. i mean, if we're talking about urgent matters, have text to 911. some don't. my experience today on my at&t phone when i called the deputy police commissioner about this issue was called, didn't go through, called the fbi, called, didn't go through switch to the hard line on my desk. both calls went through so this is still going on. >> let's get i ask you, corporate communication strategy is always interesting to me. as a reporter and i think we've probably all have lots of stories about them. but in terms of dealing with these companies in particular, is it normal for them to take a lot of time if something is happening with them i understand whether this it's out of character or this is kind of their normal no, it's it's fairly in character because it's basically what we

will do as reporters just try and go directly to them and sometimes call them out on social media to try and get them to respond, but they're really adverse to responding directly to sort of what they call just blankets, suggestions of comment. and also they're not off didn't real-time partly because they don't want people in the corporate communication to deliver the wrong information. so they'd be worried about saying, you know, any or having someone say, oh, we think it's this, they can't. so it's more of what will get from them. i'm guessing is a postmortem unless this continues for hours longer take a look your screen. so you see all the big carriers on your screen, right? and then the red line underneath what you're seeing is the uptick. in the last four four-and-a-half hours of the disrupted or just cut off service. and lance, to your point, i mean, it's it's at&t to smaller providers to t-mobile, to verizon. this is across the board with a similar trend line that tells you what,

well, first of all, it all start at the same time across the major carriers, it was like for 30 this morning that that to me is very interesting because they're not at&t, verizon, t-mobile. these guys are not using the same equipment now the smaller guys i boost and concern tumor and straight-talk. they're running on the verizon and at&t networks they used in the same stuff that's that's fairly common. but it's those big guys, it's those all of them that when it's rare to see a trend line across three major competitors start at the same time and also, you'll notice the trend is all in tandem. because now what if our first look at that? >> yeah, well, went down. >> i know it's small. i'm just saying yeah, it's small and i'm guaranteeing they don't run their own network. i mean, that's built with at&t. >> yeah, this is the emergency responders. so that shouldn't be affected. we are told it's not effective. but remember, that's only hold on, just people. i'm just hearing from the control. can you say that again? what is

>> team t-mobile saying that they did not experience an outage, their network is operating as normal. again, t-mobile saying in a statement just to cnn, they did not experience an outage. they i believe their system working as normal, waiting to hear back from the other big carriers, john, sorry to interrupt. go held. >> the first thing is the emergency thing, but also as you're looking at that trend line going up, that's also america waking up, which is a lot of people are pick up their phones and finding out that they've been out. okay. >> with us. >> thank you, guys very much >> so, president biden now, looking at a possible significant crackdown at the southern border as he tries to tackle one of his biggest political weaknesses heading into the election, sources tell cnn this morning, the president is considering what would we really sweeping executive action in a block migrants from seeking asylum if they cross into the united states illegally, it's similar to what donald trump did in office. now, if president decides to go through with the executive action, he is likely to face intense backlash from

immigration advocates and progressive democrats. immigration, of course, has been a huge liability for biden with an unprecedented surge of migrants overwhelming the border a new poll this week underscores the political risks here, only 26% of americans approve for the president's handling of immigration. joining us now to discuss this and much more is south carolina congressman james clyburn is national co-chair for the biden 2024 campaign. kurtzman, we always appreciate your time. i'm interested when you look at both the collapse of the bible partisan immigration talks driven largely by former president trump in the biden administration decision to start considering something that trump did while in office, are you concerned that the pledge for a humane immigration system is giving way to kind of political necessity here well, thank you very much for having me. yes, i am concerned about politicizing this issue, this issue. there's really around long, long, long time i remember way back before i came

to congress can be reagan years we had the spotlight when i first came to congress, i worked with favorite, sara, who's now in the cabinet. >> and >> we had an issue that we thought would resolve all of this. we sat there on the house side waiting on the senate to send us the legislation. and the last minute, republicans stepped in, withdrew their support and they collapse. we went to the same syringe it just a few weeks ago. we thought we had a very good bipartisan deal. house waiting on the senate gets to where it needs to be. and then the house republicans decided the billions of size the issue. so they have been wanting the republicans what this immigration issue as a political issue, rather than try to solve the problem. i would hope that president biden will go forward with his executive order and i would hope that executive order will stay within the four corners of

this agreement. that was reached on the senate side. because i think there is extensive support in the house for what the senate came too. so let's hope that we can do a better thing a deal going forward >> the politics, i think immigration is one element, but when you look at the coalition that president biden put together to win by 7 million votes in 2020, there's big questions about whether or not that coalition will come back. one of them i think will be tested next week in michigan with the democratic primary there. how concerned are you about the durability of the opposition to the president by air of americans, muslim, muslim americans in progressives, particularly in state like michigan >> that is the concern. it's very disconcerting the fact that matter is just because

he's have concerns that did you think is not going to work out so you raised the concerns. you tried to work with people to try to get both sides to reconcile the differences. and that's what we're trying to do. this is a very, very sticky issue >> we know that >> it's been around since people days i grew up in the parsonage and so i am very familiar with these pamphlets and how far they go back. the attorney get this resolved. i hope we will get to the point that the president will be comparable with what the congress is doing so that we can move forward on this issue because the president in the white house they listen when you talk, they watch when you're on tv. they're very cognizant of what you say. a couple of weeks ago, i remember they were asking, you're being asked about what messaging needs to change, what should they be talking about? he said student loans. as you're talking about what they've done on student loans and they should tell everybody what they've done. just yesterday, the president announce another $1.2 billion in loan

forgiveness and sent emails to every buddy who is receiving forgiveness so they checked that box for you. what's next? what's the next thing that you think they need to be doing right now with you to explain to people what is going to happen going forward is one thing to eliminate on the debt. that's already been accumulated. what it did yesterday, by 1.5 billion added on top of their hundred and 37 billion. there's already been forgiven going forward every two months before the next four years. another 75,000 people will become eligible for forgiveness. and i want to say to your listeners, this is not given and about his money your way. one gentleman wrote the person a letter, sent me a copy of it. his original loan was $6,000, some 25 years ago. me compounded interests and everything else. what happened to covid he end up paying back

$200,000 and still all the 119,000 so what the president did was we give the rest of that one under the 19,000. but he had already paid $200,000 or what was the second thousand dollars loan? that's what has happened all over this country. the president, if forgive the loans that people made to go to these fly-by-night institutions like trump university they took their money and didn't give them the education and training that they said they would give them, and they still had to pay off the loan the president forgive that. this is what the president is doing, trying to reconcile what had happened before, and trying to get people back on even so he not taken any money and away from anybody. and so when i hear people on these programs saying well, i paid my back, they ought to pay this. back. they have already paid back in some instances, ten times over. >> and it's clearly an issue

that resonates the administration making clear to your point that they want to continue to focus on it. another part of the coalition obviously, is black voters is cornerstone for any democratic coalition, but certainly for the president as well. there's an issue that is cropped up that has a public health component and political component is really kind of rattling washington a little bit. and this is on the issue of banning menthol cigarettes. there's conservative groups that i think cnn reported back in january are trying to mobilize off this issue to hurt president biden's support among black americans. a ban i think would save thousands of lives according to studies. have you talked to the white house about this? you have any idea about how this is going to play out. it's really kind of hanging in the balance right now. >> no, i have not discussed this with the white house and this has been around for a long, long time. i have had discussions on this issue in the fast, but i have not discussed this with the white house at all. i am hopeful that we will get these issues resolved know that the other side would try to play politics smith, i know i live in the

palm of the country that this will affect the ministry. and so i am hopeful that these top will resolve this issue in a way that both sides can feel that they got something out of the tall now nobody is going to get everything they want what we need to do is try to close the gap and move forward on this very sticky issue, which i think is going to be with us for a long time. >> congressman jim clyburn always appreciate your time, sir. thank you >> thank you very much for having me ahead, president biden, taking aim at vladimir putin, not mincing any of his words, how putin is responding this morning when it comes almost two years to the day since russia invaded as usaid stalls out on capitol hill to meet with ukrainian soldiers struggling to recover from battlefield injuries inflicted as they defended their homelands. stay with us why you ran hates america sunday at eight on cnn

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sides of the owl. we've got to get this done. now >> at efforts to approve any additional aid military aid, or humanitarian aid for ukraine are stalled in congress. meanwhile, ukraine is denying kremlin claims is it russia captured another key village on the eastern front. it comes after the fall of dka, which the white house is blaming directly by the way, on congress not acting to pass more aid for ukraine are chief international anchor christiane amanpour spoke to a ukrainian sergeant who says they are facing a catastrophic shortage on the battlefield. watch this >> you know full softly on new recruits for the ukrainian army. third assault brigade >> don't take us to further drill sergeants pushed them through their paces with urgent basic training for the trenches, urban warfare and assault maneuvers. every woman and man counts now for a battle that seems to have returned to

the dire days at the start 28 year-old sara, he came back from lithuania to serve two weeks ago despite his health, pillows wrong with you. >> it's osmam. >> but right now we need to take our best man and no matter what, i will, i will serve my country until the week >> brigade says its training professional fighters, not cannon fodder like russia their soldiers helped evacuate survivors of the battle for avdiivka, where russia has now raised its flag but many of their wounded were left behind just watch this video call between the severely injured soldier, even and his panic stricken sister katerina >> bring you on yvonne and his

>> comrades never made it. ukraine says there was a deal russia would evacuate them and exchange prisoners instead, russia released video of them dead the brigade says they were shocked these, are desperate times in ukraine's fight to survive. they need to replenish the ranks of the dead and injured and even here at the superhumans facility in the western city of lviv therapists and prosthetics specialist work around the clock giving these war amputees she's a second chance. and even a return to the front lines. 25-year-old anastasiya's subcu is an army sniper. she stepped on a landmine and november near the zaporizhzhia front and she tells me they are scattered there like snow drops in

spring, like jay-z's in summer >> so jeremy >> couldn't get out for a long time because as we were under very heavy fire, she tells me to be honest, we were ready to die there. the attacks was so close and we were thinking this was the end olga root neva is ceo of the center, which is supported by ukrainian businessman and the american philanthropist howard buffett. 80% entered the patients, a military, many of the multiple amputees, and that's because august says the wounded cannot get out of the battle zone during the so-called goals hold an hour to save their limbs. >> people are advocated for ten hours by comrades very often because russians are shelling our medics. so by the time they arrive at point, we have to caught them high because of the turonian cats. so that's why we have multiple amputations >> not only are they outmanned, they are also outgunned the gridlock in congress over

military aid is showing up at the front and time is not their friend we reach sergeant micola, who's also serving now on the zaporizhzhia front line. >> do you have enough weapons? do you have enough people? do you have enough ammunition >> of course, we don't. he says there is a catastrophic shortage of people the same with weapons. there aren't enough shells for artillery and tanks, or the tanks and artillery themselves on a brief hiatus in the rear, they've had to buy their own mortar, small caliber, just for self-defense problem is no ammunition anastasia practices perfecting her balance, her endurance regaining the strength to show older her weapons. and she wants to go back to the front. >> the other words of sam was we were all. yeah. i think anything is possible. she says, but whatever happens, we all need to fight there's together because the enemy is advancing

>> prima is no one wants their >> children to still be fighting the war. they and their parents have been fighting ever since putin's first invasion, a decade ago anastasio also told me that we cannot advance against the russians carrying just assault rifles. and others have said that they have had to decide these days how to ration the ammunition that they have. in other words, they can't just keep pounding there me. they absolutely have to leave that to the last-minute and the height of danger and then choose how many shells they can actually afford to spend at any one time. it is that dire on the front? >> yeah. it's not an academic debate in washington. there's a tangible effect here because i do want to ask you, president biden, was that a fundraiser in san francisco last night? he made very clear his frustration about that ongoing washington debate, but he also called out putin directly and called him a

quote, crazy sob it was interested in your take on that >> so i might not be the most diplomatic thing to say, however, it is not far from what many, many people think in terms of certainly here in ukraine, they just simply cannot believe that in 2024, this kind of 200 we were all fight is actually happening. even world war i style fighting the trenches. so many people just say that this is crazy. now, vladimir putin though, has calculated that the west from the beginning, that the west would not have the staying power. he said it several times that he would essentially wait how the west and see where it goes as he meanwhile does not care about sending hundreds of thousands into the firing line. many of them, as i said in that piece of just canon photo, they have a lot of people. they have turned their domestic defense production up and ramped it up,

and they're producing hundreds and thousands dozens of shells, ammunition, even armored vehicles, drones, all of that. and they're getting supplies from iran and north korea. so they are actually doing exceptionally well. and he's still waiting the west out. and frankly, the west has faltered, right now, as they admitted themselves the aid is blocked up in congress. it's showing up on the front and it's costing lives, and it's costing territory, and it's costing the battle between the democratic world and the autocratic world, as i was told here. and i was also told that, you know the world cannot keep pledging and mouthing the word democracy. they have to put force behind that confidence, or rather, they have to consciously provide the tools to defend and support democracy, right? >> they can't just be words. i'm christiane, your piece, extraordinary that a mother that mother who lost her limbs with her child wanting to go back to the frontlines says

everything thank you >> yeah >> so a significant update on the breaking news we've been bringing to you all morning on this nationwide cell phones service outage. we just got the first statement of at&t. this is about four hours after this outage began. here's what at&t says, quote, some of our customers are experienced saying wireless service interruptions this morning, we are working urgently to restore service to them and they are i should note, encouraging people to use wi-fi should also know verizon also just released a statement there saying it's network is operating normally. more news as we continue to follow this ahead >> okay, everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition. or strength and energy >> ensure with 27 vitamins and minerals nutrients for immune health and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein >> only the sleep number smart that lets you each choose your individual firmness and

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supposed to hold it in place. they were missing boeing stock price is taken a hit down 20% since the beginning of the year. cnn's pete muntean joins us now from washington what does this all mean for boeing right now? >> well, phil, this isn't the first head to roll at boeing since that incident seven weeks ago but it's probably somebody you've never heard of. and the question is, will boeing go further? or is this the tale of a lone scapegoat? boeing has parted ways with a man named ed clark. he was the head of the 737 max program at boeing that fifth person to hold that position when he came into after the 737 max eight crashes of 2,018.20, 19, 346 people killed in those two crashes abroad triggered the max being granted for 20 months. michael stamos, daughter died in one of those crashes and he posted to x that clark had to go. but so does he says boeing ceo dave calhoun, who he says, quote, lies to the public and lobbies congress to weaken safety laws and quote, the top senators

overseeing aviation have gulf for boeing executives to face public hearings nothing scheduled so far, but boeing is under incredible scrutiny brittney even still, the faa, the federal aviation administration, has inspectors swarming the 737 max factory in renton, washington. they're investigating boeing quality control, a report on that due out any day now, this is in tandem with another investigation, the national transportation safety board only a fraction of the way through its probe at all. already found that the bolts that held the door plug on alaska flight 12, 82, were not installed at the boeing factory ntsb chair jennifer homedy said right here on cnn this morning, there was no way that plane should have been delivered to alaska airlines with those critical boats missing, she will testify to a senate committee on her investigation two weeks from now. >> it'll be must-watch test testimony much more to come on this. no doubt. pete muntean. thank you. >> well, today we >> could see a moment 50 years in the making another lunar lander tries to make it to the

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your case. now called bunny hundred 8149977. >> i'm katie bo lillis in washington and this is cnn 321, ignition. and with faith in one and the lunar lander picture, right >> that's always it's always amazing, isn't it? to see that in just hours, the odysseus lunar lander could be the first us spacecraft to land on the moon. and one than 50 years a dcs began its journey into space a week ago and could land

on the moon about 05:30 p.m. eastern time. but a historic landing not guaranteed. in fact, more than half of all attempts to land on the moon have actually failed just last month, a privately funded laura lunar lander launch from florida, and it suffered a malfunction, never made it to the moon, it burned up re-entering earth's atmosphere. japan did successfully land a rover on the moon last month, though, it's moon sent back these pictures after landing successfully there, how cool on the surface here with us now, so happy to be joined by nasser administrator, former us senator bill nelson all right, let's just be optimistic because i already put it in my calendar to watch this width my kids today at 05:30 p.m. so being optimistic, assuming a successful landing, what can we all learn from it? >> i'm, going to be a scalp for us because next year we're going to the moon with humans and about two years from now, we will land on the moon. first

time in over a half century. so what we're doing is something different this time we're going bowing to the moon, not as a government mission, but as a commercial mission, which saves nasa lots of money but we've got six instruments on it that will give us a lot of information about this very difficult region to land in the south pole of the moon and that information is going to be very important to us as we then send humans to the surface of the main talk. >> can we talk a little bit more about? >> the importance of >> landing on the south pole of the moon where the goal eventually is to build a lunar base. that's a goal not only we have, that's a goal that china shares, for example scientists believe there's ice there and boy, that can mean a whole lot of things for the future would it be possible for

both countries to have a base there? it is >> possible, and that's another reason why following on the outer space treaty, we have implemented the artemis accords. now, 36 countries have signed them and it's basically a declaration of our peaceful pledges as we go out and explore to the moon and further. and why that's so important is when you go to the south pole region and a lot of other countries like china, what to explore it's important that we do so in peace. yeah, of course, we're concerned about that because a lot of the so-called civilian space program with china of course that is a lot of military as well

>> oh, can i ask you about another big concern? our team here at cnn, kristin fisher, that that whole team, they were the first to report that russia is attempting to develop a nuclear weapon for space, essentially a giant electromagnetic pulse would create a huge energy wave and potentially destroy or heavily damaged a number of crucial satellites. what's your level of concern after learning this? >> well, again, going back to that treaty, you in outer space, there's a provision in there that says no nuclear weapons in space because the exploration of space should be peaceful purposes. >> now >> as to the specific next, i'm going to defer to the white house and to the department of defense let me say that we have an international space station up there. we have 15 international

partners and russia is one of the partners. yeah >> the cooperation with russia, it goes back to 1975, the apollo soyuz mission and we've peacefully cooperated with russia ever since we built the space station together we operate it together but we want that to continue we don't want these other issues that are anything but peaceful to get in the way. >> yeah. >> i mean, it is >> remarkable what that relationship between the united states and russia has withstood in space. despite everything else, despite russia's war on ukraine, for example. but this reporting from cnn that i just mentioned is from three different sources familiar with us intelligence if this is the case, if this happens, >> oh, would

>> that jeopardised significantly the partnership that the us and russia have had in space i'm gonna give the details of that to the white house, but obviously, anything that threatens the existence of peaceful uses of space is inimical to what we are trying to do. it's inimical to the outer space treaty from back in the '60s. and i am very hopeful that all of the parties that would think otherwise, we'll come to their census i should note putin has denied the plans. he said russia's categorically against that's a quote, launching any sort of nuclear weapon into orbit. but obviously you're concerned, the white house, everyone dod, paying close attention. let's end on this note about how precise you have to beat a nail this lunar landing today one expert has equated it to vote

hitting a golf ball in new york and having a go into a specific hole in los angeles. that's pretty hard. >> does that how hard it is? >> that's about in the south pole is particularly hard because it is pockmarked with all of these craters and remember that the south pole, if this is the bottom of the moon and the sunlight is coming in like this. you've got these deep, deep shadows >> by the way. we know that there is ice in the krever rocks, which are totally please shattered and therefore, we want to go to the south pole. however hazardous it is to see if there is water in abundance, because if there's water, there's rocket fuel, hydrogen, and oxygen, and we could have a guest station on the south pole of the moon that is remarkable.

will be watching 05:30 p.m. eastern time today. good luck to all of you, bill nelson. thank you so much. >> thanks, bob >> will also be watching tomorrow. cia director bill burns was expected to travel to paris to continue talks with israeli qatar in egyptian officials on negotiations for hostages held by hamas in gaza. that's according to sources familiar with the plans, the biden administration it's racing to secure a ceasefire and hostage agreement in the israel hamas war before the beginning of ramadan on march 10th, israel says if a deal isn't reached by then it will launch an invasion of rafah were roughly 1.5 million gazans have currently taken shelter, joining us now, political national security reporter alex board, he's the author of the just out new book, the internationalists, the fight to restore american foreign policy after trump. i should note that alex is one of those guys. there's somebody who covered washington for a long time that you respect, you fear a little bit on the beat, and then you

meet him and he's a good dude and that's a little frustrating as well it's a fascinating book and congratulations for having it out, but i want to start with what's happening in the middle east right now because what a lot of people maybe forget or, or kind of glossed over is, there was a gaza conflict in the early part of president biden's first couple of months in office in may of 2021 and his strategy in dealing with prime minister netanyahu who in dealing with the issue of israel, i think a lot of connective tissue to what we've seen over the course of the last several months. do you think that's a fair assessment of things have been he was willing to hub bibi netanyahu, then he's certainly been willing to do it now in the face of netanyahu really causing some pretty significant clinical problems >> absolutely. i mean, in 2021, it was much the conflict was no law was not as big as it is now, of course, but the biden ministration strategy was to, as you said, hug israel in

public and push them in private now, that led to that conflict ending in about 11 days, it was still deadly, it was still brutal, but it ended in 11 days and the administration's lesson from that was this strategy can work. there's a way to show support for israel in public, but get them to a point where the fighting can stop sooner rather than later. october 7 comes around last year, and of course it's a much bigger, much more brutal attack, 1,200 people died and one day and they tried generally the same strategy, but of course, the context change not only was the attack bigger, but the government israel was more partisan, more far right? you also have these really public behind the government, even though they might not be happy with netanyahu in general over his own issues. and the fact that the attack happened. but they are behind his efforts to root out hamas from gaza. >> so put together that strategy was deployed. you literally saw biden go to israel and hug bibi, but that's pressure for behind

strategy has just not really worked out in the way the us intended, although they still support it, because they think it gives them more sway with israel overall. >> yeah, no, it's certainly it's been such a complicating factor in a very complex situation. we should, when it comes to the middle east, there's a lot more i want to get to. the book is extraordinarily fulsome a nuance. but it was striking. i think everybody in dc was intrigued by jake sullivan, who you kind of track through his rise and also his role in the genesis of the biden doctrine or foreign policy in afforded us foreign affairs essay just shortly before october 7, he wrote that although the middle east remains beset with perennial challenges, the region is quieter than it has been for decades. and obviously needed to be edited in the online version i'm not saying this to knock jake, but i think that was the view at the time. right. we kind of put it to the side. we had people dealing with it, the us and it's not front-burner issue. was that a mistake? do they think was there were there errors along the wet there's no question

that the biden administration considered the israeli palestinian issue at large aside issue, in part because they felt they couldn't get a two-state solution. and so they were working at the margins at best to improve that situation, we should note that in the months before october 7, they were strongly considering support for the palestinians as part of an israeli saudi normalization deal. in effect, the saudis and the israelis would have to agree to a clear pathway towards a palestinian state in order to get that normalization deal, i think if you talk to administration officials now, they would say sure. we probably should have dealt with this issue a lot more. that said they still refute the the insinuation that they marginalize the israeli palestinian conflict at large. i say that it was always part of their planning, but it really wasn't until only a few months before october 7. so yeah, i think they would say they wish they'd paid more attention to this but now of course they have to deal with the consequences >> the one of the things that

they were very certain of was the withdrawal from afghanistan. and i think that politically that is a moment where the polls just started to go down on a trend line that's continued to this day. but there's a certitude or certainty within the president and his team that they've no regrets about the decision. there weren't firings, there weren't heads that rolled. you have this anecdote in the book on a meeting that i was aware of at the time, did not go well, i didn't know how badly it went. i want to read some of that were basically the afghan president ashraf ghani is in the oval office meeting with president biden. they knew it was going to be a tough meeting where president biden was going to tell him that their defense strategy, the security strategy was failing and ghani says blames biden a little bit for announcement that he's going to withdraw and then immediately pivots to the fact that afghanistan should be a tech hub. and what the us really needs to do is invest in 5g and like the stunning moment of the team realizing 000 like this is what we're dealing with on the other side, i just feel like there was such a good window into how much could go wrong despite the planning,

despite the effort, despite the years of biden believing this was the right decision yeah. >> i mean, biden to this day believes that the administration did not make a mistake and deciding to withdraw from afghanistan, it was the right strategic choice. yes, they are aware 13 service members died and of course there was the chaos outside of kabul airport, but they still were able to take 120,000 or so people out. and the largest airlift in history and so overall, it was the right calling their mind. but to your point, i mean, even though the afghans were incense that biden chose to withdraw the us from afghanistan. there were there were just no real they felt they didn't really had no counterpart on the other side willing to fight the taliban and be aware of what was to come that to your point to see ghani in that meeting? until biden no, no, no. let's focus on investment and innovation and becoming a 5g hub. i mean, biden by the end of the meeting was like what just happened, you know, looking at is staff and saying, is that really what just happened here? so a stunning moment as part of a stunning first two years of

foreign policy. >> and it's just ronica, one anecdote of extra ordinarily well-reported book, the entire kinda biden doctrine. america is and the genesis of it. and what's behind it now, alex ward, appreciate your time, my friend. congratulations of the book thank you. >> congrats to alex for sure. all right. ready for panic. >> i'm so excited >> time for our morning moment. pandas are back. china is lending to giant pandas to the san diego zoo. the first to alone of its kind in two decades, zoo officials say there's no timeline yet they are optimistic that they will arrive a soon, the pandas are back. amen for that >> cnn news central starts after this break, have a good one morning moment. brought to you by miracle league somebody would ask or something and she would just walk right past we didn't know they were talking to her it just could not here. i was hesitant to get the hearing aids because of my

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