>> frank sinatra had connections with the mafia and all these nightclubs are owned by the mob. >> you didn't want to make those guys he was to vegas. the story of >> since sunday at ten on cnn >> tonight, there are major questions over how former president donald trump is going to be able to find nearly half 1 billion to appeal the judgment in his new york civil fraud case he filed a notice of appeal this morning. that's the next step here. he has until march 25 to put up the cash or post a bond for that enormous sum that he has been ordered to pay. the attorney general for new york, letitia james says that office is prepared to seize his new york assets if he's unable to make that deadline? here tonight, is former federal prosecutor, kristy greenberg. and it's great to have you. i think a question is, do we know, will we know when trump either puts this money up or post the bond to officially hold off this

deadline that is now the clock is ticking down. it's less than 30 days from now so it's unclear if that's something that they would actually officially docket, but certainly by the deadline of march 25th, it >> will become clear. i would think from one or both of the parties whether or not he is actually posted that bond or put up the money himself? >> what's the >> likelihood of this appeal? i mean, he has to post this to have this appeal. it's not surprising that he's appealing it, but what is the likelihood of an appeal actually succeeding here? >> i think it's very unlikely. remember, kaitlan, this is largely a documents case before we even got to the trial. this judge issued a summary judgment opinion just on the documents that the trump organization had engaged in persistent fraud. >> and then you get to the trial with judge engoron. really >> protected the record for appeal he gave a lot of leeway to the defense. donald trump got to make a lot of brands about it. this is a political

witch-hunt don junior basically put on a timeshare presentation about how great all the properties were and you know, he bled even though a lot of that was irrelevant, he let that in so that they couldn't have an argument on appeal that they were stymied in what? but they wanted to say similarly, he wrote a really detailed opinion with detailed fact-finding credibility findings. and that's the kind of thing that appellate courts don't really overturned on appeal and then finally, the judge also relied on the independent monitors report for a lot of fact-finding, as well as to the current state of the trump organization. and so given those three things, i really don't see a lot of ways for this to be overturned on appeal in a meaningful way. >> how soon could that be decided if he if he does not succeed on that, when when would we know that he actually does have to fully pay this to the new york well, look, there's going to be a briefing schedule that will be set. this is going to take quite a bit of time. i mean, i expect that

there will be months involved in the briefing schedule, both for trump organization to file its appeal than months for a response i don't see this happening to being concluded and it anytime soon. and plus, there are different different levels of appeal. presumably if he's unsuccessful at this level, he'll go all the way up to the highest court, which is actually called the new york court of appeals. but presumably he will exhaust every avenue of appeal that he has. >> kristy greenberg, we'll be following it all closely with you. thank you for your time tonight and thank you all so much for joining us live from london tonight, cnn newsnight with abby phillip starts right now tonight on 360. a gag order requested in the trump hush money case. why new york prosecutors want a judge to impose one on the former president with the trial file. now, just weeks away. also tonight, new details in the murder of a georgia nursing student and how her killing, because now part of the debate over the border. and later with russian forces on them move a

rare look at the ukrainian drone warriors using sometimes homemade technology to try to slow the russians down. good evening. thanks for joining us. plenty of new developments to bring you tonight in the many trials and growing and tribulations of defendants, donald trump today, he and his adult sons appealed new york's massive civil fraud judgment against them. he did not, however, begin paying the 460 plus million dollars he now owes an amount new york attorney general, letitia james has taken to tweeting out actually, the figure on the left of her tweet there equal sign. the left of the equal sign 114, some thousand dollars. that's how much interest piles up every single day on a bill that trump has now got less than a month to either pay off himself or find someone else to there's also a new court filing and the classified documents case setting. one special counsel against another. but we begin tonight with other case against trump, the new york hush money trial. and district attorney alvin bragg's new request for gag order on the former president justified according to his filing, by threats

against him and his staff that went from nearly non-existent before the case to so many that the district attorney's security detail had to bring in help from the new york police department. because they couldn't keep up. the filing also cited his conduct in other matters and keeping them honest. they are not hard to find >> do jack smith, have you ever heard of >> deranged jack smith deranged jack smith deranged when i call does they looked range and you take a look at that face. you say that guy is a sick man? and there's something wrong with it. >> i meet a woman outside a bergdorf goodman i took her upstairs to a changing booth. >> it was all made up. i don't even know who this woman is. what else can you expect from a trump hating clinton appointed judge. i have a trump-hating judge as rogue judge a trump hater. we have a rogue judge. >> this judge is a lunatic and if you've ever watched him and the attorney general may be worse, maybe where she have a watcher. i will get donald

trump, letitia james corrupt attorney general of new york she's a corrupt person. she's got serious trump derangement syndrome every single day and suing him. i'm going to sue him. >> just a small sampling. there are some of which and tone at least his campaign spokesman adopt any response today, quoting now, today the two tiered system of justice implemented against president trump is on full display with requests by now another drains democrat prosecutor seeking a restrictive gag order, which have granted would impose an unconstitutional fringe been on president trump's first amendment rights, including its ability to defend himself, and the rights of all americans to hear from president trump. soon as kara scannell joins us now along cnn legal analyst karen friedman, agnifilo, also, elie honig, kara, let's start off with you. let's talk about what this gag order would potentially cover because trump could still criticize alvin bragg, the district attorney. >> he can still criticize the district attorney in the case itself. but what bragg's team is saying to the judges, they would like him to prevent trump from criticizing any of the potential witnesses in this

case, any of the jurors that are selected in this case? as well as the attorneys that are working on it that aren't bragg and the court's staff, as well as their family members saying that they have seen this in other cases, and they're trying to get ahead of him. >> he went after the assistant to the judge, the clerk of the judge, and the other case. >> right. and the judge imposing gag order there. so there are now trying to get ahead of it, saying they want to protect them yes. and particularly the jury here, because trump has had a history in some other cases of going after the jurors, including an roger stone's trial. he is a longtime confident of trump. he went after them after roger stone was convicted. so what they write in their filing for protective order for the jury, they say defendant's conduct in this and other matters, including his extensive it's of history of attacking jurors and other proceedings, presents a significant risk of juror harassment and intimidation that warrants reasonable protective measures to ensure the integrity of these proceedings minimize obstacles to jury selection, and protect your safety. so they're saying in this case, donald trump will

learn the identities of the jurors, but they want the judge to stop him from sharing that with any of his supporters, any of his confidence. and they also don't want him to know the addresses of any of these jurors. >> and what about the security for alvin bragg? what's the latest on that? >> so it to support this, they're saying that the his office had seen a direct correlation from march 2023 when donald trump started attacking bragg, attacking this case, this so is that the time when we were reporting every day about the grand jury hearing from witnesses and it was just before the indictment. so they said in 2022, there was one threat against the office in 2023, there was 89 threats against the office, including two instances were letters were sent to brag, including white powdery substances that redeem not to be toxic it included death threats against alvin bragg himself. >> all right, elie, what do you think from a legal standpoint about this idea of a gag order? >> i think the requested a gag order here is appropriately narrow. now, i'm no fan of gag orders. i was a prosecutor for 14 years. i never asked for a gag order, but i also never had a client or a defendant quite

like donald trump, and he has a history, as kara said, any judge in deciding whether to issue a gag order like this has to weigh the defendants first amendment right. you do have a right to criticize prosecutors in the case against you with the need to safeguard the proceedings, especially jurors and witnesses, and that's really the focus of this gag order. so i think it's narrow enough that the judge can sign it. without infringing on >> michael cohen is going to be one of the witnesses in this. so he so trump's not going to be able to say anything about michael cohen exactly. i mean, michael cohen is well-known as a witness and donald trump and michael cohen both talked publicly about each other quite aggressively. if this gag order is signed, then yes, trump would violate it if he made verbal public attacks on michael color, karen, what do you think about it >> so i think you bring up an excellent point that it's going to be a concern for the judge that this is all about protecting the jury pool because they're getting ready for trial, they're getting ready to send out jury questionnaires and you need to protect the information that gets to prospective jurors.

>> and we're not having enough why not why didn't the diaz for an anonymous jury that the identity of the jurors wouldn't be >> so the law in new york state is different than the federal law and it's really, you're not actually allowed to have a completely anonymous jury to the defendant and so this particular request that they made, which is to keep the names and addresses from the public, but not from the defense team or the prosecution team is actually along with new york law. but the michael cohen is the michael cohen issue is a concern because if michael cohen continues to speak out about donald trump, donald trump will say he has a right to respond. so i could see the judge here for example, issuing a gag order on all parties and all witnesses to protect the jury pool from getting extraneous extra judicial statements and information. now that we are weeks away from the trial, and there's certain testimony is evidence that they're trying to keep out that's right. >> they want to keep out some

of the testimony from or some of the public statements that rudy giuliani had made. he was on fox news trying to explain this way back in 2018, 2017. and at the time he was saying that trump knew about the payments. and then so trump's team is saying they don't want that in he was implicating trumpy in this. and now the trump folks are saying, well, he had nothing to do with this. he was just speaking off the cuff. right. >> there saying he wasn't actually retained by trump. he wasn't acting as his attorney. he just freelanced and went on fox and saying this, they're trying to put that back in the bag or say if you're going to let it run, let us run the cleanup effort that trump and giuliani he then engaged in and also don't want some contemporaneous notes that allen weisselberg made, right? >> so weisselberg was part of this hush money payment. he was involved in conversations with michael cohen. he took handwritten notes that the prosecutors want to use trump's lawyers are saying they shouldn't be allowed to use that because allen weisselberg is not being called as a witness in this case. >> he can't be questioned by

the defense about it, right? that's right. and also, remember he is in talks to plead guilty to perjury in the new york attorney general's case, which also raises complications about his credibility as a witness. >> and what about the access hollywood tape tapes and his public statements on sexual assault allegations? >> i mean, the question then for the judge is going to be not just as the show bad character, you can't just introduce evidence that shows that a defendant's a terrible guy is as terrible things. you have to show that it's directly relevant to one of the issues at trial. the person's intent, some sort of pattern, and i think what prosecutors have argued and will argue is this goes to donald trump's motive, his intent. why was he willing to pay hey, off stormy daniels? because this tape had just come out and he didn't want to sustain further political damage that will be the prosecution. >> karen, how long do you think this trial goes on for? >> it could be a lot of it depends on how much cross-examination of the witnesses that donald trump's lawyers choose to do. >> but >> the prosecutors have estimated about four weeks is what? they think their entire case will take from start to

finish. and depending on if the defense attorneys cross examine their witnesses or put on their own defense case that could obviously extend it. but i think i think four to six weeks is a decent decent guess. >> i want to go over to the former president's now appeal in this this other case on the fraud. can you walk us through what he did today? >> yes. so he filed a notice of appeal along with his sons. they're appealing both the dollar amount this massive number of $454 million just for trump, as well as the other remedies which includes banning them from being an officer director of accompany and also continuing this monitor that's in place. so they filed their notice of appeal to get the ball rolling on this, you know, they still have 30 days to post money in order to satisfy the judgment in the case so that's the thing that is still lingering out here. that was an address today in the appeal. this was just more of them saying we are going to go forward with this and we're

going to challenge all to see if the judge who had committed any error. >> and is it clear how or if he can pay i mean, this is the big question it's a private company. there were questions about the credibility of their financial statements with the judge said were fraudulent and inflated in many ways. mean trump has said that last year and testimony he had more than four hundred million dollars in cash. the attorney general's office said in 2021, $200 million was tied up in an illiquid partnership that he had with another real estate company. so no one really, unless there can really see and have a handle on actually how much cash he has. so he could get a bond and have that collateralized by some of the acids the owns. we could sell property that takes longer to do, but this is kind of uncharted territory for an individual having to put up so much money because he's not a company that has access to loans and banks and other sources of money. just want >> to bring in investigative reporter and trump biographer circuits university law lecture, david cay johnston but based. on what you know, i mean, do you think trump can pay for this? i mean, you've

been saying you think he might file for bankruptcy >> i think donalds certainly will not have the cash to pay both the state award in the e jean carroll award that's about $530 million he may be able to find someone it won't be a bank. i suspect to in effect guarantee the payments >> but >> given how murky his finances are, given his long history of not being truthful about his finances and having hidden debts it would be a strange bird who would do that. and by the way, if trump becomes president, it means he's going to be owing somebody over $500 and he began his campaign almost nine years ago saying, i don't know anybody have to be obligated. anybody i'm not going to take contributions elie, what do you think the odds are that trump wins this appeal? >> i think they're low. it's important to understand you're not going to win an appeal by arguing to a court of appeals. well the judge should have credited our witnesses. the

judge should have believed our evidence more than the other side. that's not an appeal issue. you have to show something structural or procedural. it's also frankly not an appeal issue in my view. to say, well, the attorney general had political motivation. she ran for office based on a promise that she'll go after me, which she did, but that's an issue of judgment and ethics and mixing prosecution and politics. that's not going to win you an appeal to your traditional doing yourself any favors by tweeting out things, mocking trump's, the interests he has to pay. i mean, isn't that is that appropriate know, i think it's inappropriate. i think it's a terrible look and you showed this before what the attorney general has been doing the last several days is every day tweeting out plus 114,000 whatever dollars in interest she's mocking. let's be honest, she's rubbing it in his face. he's gloating. it's not a good look when donald trump's argument to the public and to his voters is she targeted me politically. now we know she ran for office. she said it dozens of times during her campaign for ag vote for me. i'll go after trump. >> that's bad enough. now, she's piling on and sort of

reveling in it. and i if i was advising her, i would tell him to knock it off. >> and karen, what happens if trump doesn't pay? >> so after 30 days from when the judgment is entered by the court and it's already been entered, its already been entered, yet that clock is ticking after 30 days. if he hasn't either pay the judgment or posted a bond in the amount with collateral that satisfies the bond. the attorney general can start enforcing the judgment, which means she can go after his bank accounts. you can go after his airplane, his buildings, his property. it's it'll be interesting to see how she chooses to enforce the ban, but also, you've got barbara jones, who is embedded in the trump organization at the direction gen. of judge engoron. and she's the former federal judge who is the monitor there so she has a window into the financials of the trump organization and that could also be oh, an

interesting way that the attorney general will be able to enforce the judgment >> do we know does he have to pay the 83 million to e. jean carroll anytime is there a clock on that? yeah. the clock has been ticking on that. i think it's about halfway through the 30 day clock in federal court, but just hours after the judgment came down in the new york civil fraud case, trump's lawyers went to the judge overseeing the carroll case and said, hey, can we postpone complying with this until all of our post-trial motions are dealt with. the judge just set a very quick briefing schedule. wants to hear from everyone by the end of the week, david, how do you think the e jean carroll judgment will play out? >> well, donald is going to earn he can to delay past november 5. that's 100% of his ball game in these two cases. if he can find some judge who will stay seizing of his properties. and we'll stay requiring him to put up money. he's going to run their ease entitled in the state case to appeal to the intermediate

court of appeals, the highest court in new york is discretion as to whether they take the case or not. unlike la la i don't see any substantial grounds here for him to overturn the findings of fact and i don't see any significant errors by a judge and goren david cay johnston. thank you. kara scannell, karen friedman, agnifilo, and elie honig as well, coming up next, what investigators are learning about a nursing students killing at the university of georgia and where politicians including the former president are making the fact that her alleged killer was in the country unlawfully. and later, how a magician, unwittingly became part of a campaign dirty trick against joe biden through the dubious magic of ai will explain ahead works hard at our one, it's twice as hard when you take it again the next day. so betty could be the barcode beat conductor let's be more than our allergies. >> and for fast audi relief with a powerful decongestant tries her ted d

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>> erin burnett, outfront week nights at seven on cnn >> georgia officials today released grim new details in the killing of nursing student laken hope riley on the university of georgia campus last thursday as if the initial facts were not horrifying enough for the sense of loss, not deep enough by now and all of it has now been compounded by the revelation the suspect was in this country and and how quickly that fact became politicized. more from cnn's ryan young arrest records alleging her suspected killer, jose antonio ibarra, prevented riley from calling >> 911 and mutilated her body by disfiguring her skull, then dragged her to a secluded area to hide her body okay. topsy results determine the cause of death as blunt force trauma to the head. at 26 year-old suspect lives in an apartment complex, only steps from the campus trail. riley had been jogging on thursday morning we have a suspect in custody for lakeland murder ibarra was arrested on

>> friday the day after riley was killed. investigators have not released a motive likens death is a direct result of failed policies on the phone federal level in an unwillingness by this white house to secure the southern border over the weekend republican georgia governor brian kemp sent a letter to the white house criticizing the administration's immigration policies and demanding information on ybarra. >> it is an understatement to say that this is a major crisis and because of the white house is failures every state, as i've said, repeatedly, is now a border state and lichen riley's murders, just the latest proof of that. >> immigration and customs enforcement says e bar was arrested in 2022 for being in the united states unlawfully. >> he was >> paroled and he barr was arrested again in new york city in 2023, charge with acting in a manner to injure a child less than 17 and a motor vehicle license violation, according to ice nypd release ibarra before

detainer could be issued. former president donald trump, joined the chorus plane aim at the biden administration. hyperbolas in the current border crisis as biden's border invasion on truth, social, saying riley's murder should have i've never happened. ybar was denied bond and is being held in the athens clark county jail >> not one dog >> tonight. rylee sorority holding a vigil to remember the 22-year-old. >> it is so obvious to me why it feels so dark right now. and that is because we love smoking broaddus light. so there's ever been shaken community gathering to grieve the loss of one of its own. on the first full day of classes since the murder our hearts will always put out like it it was such an integral part of our sisterhood >> there's gotta be i mean, the impact of this on campus, it's just it's horrific yeah when you think about the size of this campus is over 40,000 students. we talked to so many today who were scared. anderson, a lot of them left on

friday in this was the first day returning. and as far as the eye could see, you saw thousands and thousands of students lining up to pay their respects, holding hands. >> also talking about little things like telling your friends you love them or calling home to your parents. also, they want more security on this campus. there's been a lot of talk about how fast this investigation happened, but there there's also been talk of bringing back the blue lights that we all know. they used to be across campuses all across this country. those were moved about 20 years ago from this cave was but the conversation is really extending. we saw so much pain here. people saying they're scared to walk by themselves. now, groups are going out together. but you can understand this is going to be something that degree remember for the rest of their lives, there's no murder has been on this campus for over 20 years. anderson, this has been heartbreaking to watch throughout the day as these kids are just struggling. >> ryan young. thank you so much. crm perspective. now, joining us tonight, former fbi deputy the director andrew mccabe. >> enter >> the suspect's immigration status. what impact would it have on the investigation

>> on the investigation, likely not much. right. what we have here, anderson exist in irredeemably awful act of violent crime. and so to the investigators who were able to identify this individual as a suspect in this crime with the assistance, incredible assistance of video surveillance. and then to collect physical evidence likely that ties him to the crime scene itself, to them where he comes from or what passport he holds or doesn't hold is not particularly relevant. it's his involvement in the von and crime and how they can prove that with physics well evidence that matters to them. >> as ryan young reported, the suspect has been arrested before, given his immigration status. is it surprising he was released in those other cases? >> i, don't think so. you know, we don't have perfect detail about what happened in the new york case in which he was accused, at least were convicted of endangering a

child but it is not uncommon in this country for people who are here, either on law hello immigration status are unlawful immigration status to be treated the same way that that americans, people who are lawfully here are treated. and that is when they are arrested for non-violent acts, if they don't have an extensive record of criminal convictions, they typically are not held in jail pending a resolution of those charges. and so it doesn't surprise me that that happened to him here. >> people will rightfully >> ask, well, how is it that someone who's unlawfully in this country is given bail? in fact, as it happens around the country dozens and probably hundreds of times a day and that just simply a reflection of the volume of people that are going through the criminal justice system and the inability to keep all those people prior to trial. >> if somebody commits a serious crime and they're here

unlawfully do they generally, if they're convicted and it's a crime that people would actually be imprisoned for that. do they do time and then when that time is up, they get deported or is that not automatic? >> they do generally, that's certainly the position at the federal law enforcement level, right? if you're arrested for a crime, you are going to go through the system and serve your time if you're convicted and sentenced, you're going to serve that sentence before your turned over to the immigration service to be deported to your home country most states pursue that same story. but of prioritization. so if you know, obviously like this, this awful case, he's now been arrested and detained for murder. he's not ever going to get bonded out on that charge, so he's going to have to see this one through service sentence here before he's deported back to venezuela >> right now do you imagine investigators still looking for more evidence at this point? i mean, it's still pretty early on

>> there's no doubt they are that's going to happen until they are they are convinced that they have completely course that scene for everything they possibly can. i'm sure they've already or will soon execute a search warrant at his residence to try to collect like any other evidence that could possibly time to this crime to see if he's maybe taken anything from the crime scene, brought it back to his residence, anything like that would be very powerful evidence against him. and that's the way that they're going to look at this. it's really on the political side that the defendants are the accused immigration status is is becoming relevant and it's not particularly helpful on the criminal investigative and prosecutorial side >> andrew mccabe. appreciate it coming up. president biden meets with republican and democratic leaders, the white house tomorrow and ukraine aid as a major topic look at how the fight is getting more difficult for ukraine, even for what's been called its secret weapon against russian forces. that's next we're here to get

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gummies. find it at walmart king charles, tomorrow. on cnn >> some breaking news tonight on the war in gaza. hopeful words from president biden on talks to establish a new ceasefire in exchange for hostages now held by hamas my last security adviser tells me that we're close. we're close, not done yet my hope is by next monday, we'll have a ceasefire also tonight, the new york times reporting that israeli negotiators are signaling their willingness to release a group of jailed palestinians in >> exchange for some of the israelis held hostage in gaza this comes as president prison biden host congressional leaders in both parties, the white house tomorrow in an, effort to break through the

deadlock and a number of key funding battles on the agenda. money for israel, but also tens of billions of dollars for ukraine russia is slowly reclaiming territory in the east. president zelenskyy told cnn that quote, millions in ukraine could die without more funding. we'll have more on that interview. in a moment. right now. nick paton walsh, she's on the ground in ukraine with how the fight has changed >> thankfully, it around fast, hiding each week in a new abandoned shell drone operators have been ukraine's secret weapon for months. but now, but it's getting harder we saw this unit in december, but their base back then has been bombed. yet still, they hunt every day for a single mistake. a russian who gets himself spotted flee for. >> they say the russians are better at hiding themselves. although sometimes obviously not. yeah, so they've just floated russian soldiers

carrying groceries and the dog came out to greet him so i think it's quite possible that's where some russians are hiding. so it begins the first strike on the window wondering, watching the other flies into the target and quickly they prepare another the hunt is now game, but has the tools of one they lose about a quarter of their drones to russian jamming. >> this terrible she lose what followed i should give me the loss of the you muslim with any before it was dealing with its mean. we mean hang into the blue house or its roof, >> clearly hit before a while ago it becomes the next target they go in again. it could be a

mortar position. they think. >> watch how small or >> explosion send fragments flying out no lunar fox >> to be less smoking the russians often have to stay injured inside the damaged building to not draw in more drones and just throw shows lows like this. and his look with one meal frozen yeun, be able that go in again. >> it could be a mortar position they think. then suddenly the power goes out the internet down and screens black, but remarkably, they barely ms a. beat. the commanders sparks up his cell phone, 5g, with the drone feet and a chatgroup directing the entire attack just from an iphone the smoke grows in intensity they think they might have hit a weapons store

>> bucha moola hello they never see russian faces or taste the smoke. the blast noise takes a few seconds to travel to them but this is still killing up close and far away. strike launch, repeat all day >> rule rule sometimes it's cheers here screams there other times, the other way around. >> now understand what really is >> striking about these units is just how relentless those attacks are. they simply do that all day every day whenever they spot a potential russian target. interesting too, though this unit based in kherson, a city that was invaded, occupied, liberated while they are concerned and of what they've seen 20 kilometers further away from their position, russian units are massing their concern. they might be trying to have another

go at the city all along the front lines. now, anderson, real concerns amongst ukrainian soldiers that russia might be trying to regain some momentum. we saw some of that just outside avdiivka, which ukraine had to give up two saturdays ago, russian towards a small village, lattice guinea, essentially taking it crane withdrawing from that another sign of moscow's momentum. and that is leaving many ukrainians deeply anxious. they're president volodymyr zelenskyy admitting to david at the million shells, the european union promise. remember it's europe, it's going to happen to step into the gap left by a lack of american assistance of that million shells only 30% of arrived so far. shocking frankly and they're feeling it on the front lines, anderson, nick paton walsh. thank you. be careful, incredible to see the work that's drone operators up close to that point person zelenskyy spoke was seen as kaitlan collins. the interview airs tonight and the source of the top but the hour here are some of their conversations specifically about american aid now being held up in congress by house republicans

>> you're basically saying that there'll be no new success for ukraine if there's no new us aid. essentially, this all depends on us aid. >> steps success forward will depends on your say >> yes >> not defending not only defending line because if you defend, just defend, you give possibility. >> russia pushed you >> yes, small steps back, but any anyway, you, we will add this steps back small >> one. >> but when you stamps back, you lose people. we will lose people people die. >> again, you can see more in the next hour on the source nine eastern time right here on cnn just ahead for us tonight, we now know who was behind the deepfake robocall, a prison biden during the new hampshire primary. and how easy it was to actually do a magician tells his secrets. next >> to be a headliner was vegas.

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moselle land that perfect products at foreign print.com in brandt for certain. >> the situation room with wolf blitzer didn't night at six point cnn we finally have an answer to a month old political mystery. who was behind a deepfake robocall to new hampshire voters days before the presidential primary that sounded like president biden telling some to stay home and not vote. it's a strange answer involving in new orleans street magician kyung lah has to tell us >> paul >> carpenter, new orleans street magician, wanted to be famous for fork bending. >> we could actually see it looks like it's bending, but instead, he's making national headlines, tricked himself. he says, in a political scandal around this fake robocall of president biden won a bunch of malarkey sent to more than 20,000 new hampshire residents urging democrats to not vote in last month's primary it's important that you save your vote for the november election.

>> did you know when you made that recording how it was going to be used >> none none whatsoever. >> i'm a magician and a hypnotist. i'm not i'm not in the political realm i just got thrown into this thing. >> carpenter says he was playing around with ai apps, getting paid a few hundred bucks you're in there to make fake recordings. one of those paying according to text messages shared with cnn, was political operative steve kramer, than employed by democratic presidential candidate dean phillips. >> no, no problem. send me script. i send your recording, send me some money. >> how easy is all of this for a self-taught guy? >> five minutes, ten >> topline, cramer admitted to cnn he was behind the robocall, the phillips campaign cut ties with him, saying they had nothing to do with it. but this deep fake raised immediate concern over the power of ai from the white house. >> that call was indeed fake and not recorded by the president to election-watchers. >> well, people are getting

phone calls 48 hours, 24 hours before an election. there is nobody there to interfere and those we're very worrisome to me. when you think about how much we are connected to our devices and now you're going to inject these generative ai into that ecosystem. and i i think we're in for something dramatic. >> can you create a voice that sounds like president biden very easily, deepfake expert vijay bella, super money on says, there's no shortage of often free apps that can do it. >> it requires just three seconds of your audio and you can actually clone someone's voice. >> we are testing to see how quickly you can create an ai voice. >> and then upload that >> and add voice. >> and then i can just type whatever i want. >> i would like to buy a new pair of shoes, but they should be pink. >> and then so jenrick and in just seconds, i would like to

buy a new pair of shoes, but they should be pink for someone like me, you know, it did sound a little bit like you faint he ms voice, like five minutes of president biden speaking at any particular event. and that's what it took to create a clone of his voice, pindrop, his company not only detected that robocall of president biden's voice was a fake, but tracked it to the very ai company that made it so it takes ai software to detect whether a voices ai generated. it knows that it's a deepfake. >> you cannot expect a human to do this. you need technology to be able to fight technology. so you need good ai to fight bad ai to alert americans that just like a magic trick, an ai deep fake is not what it seems. >> you can actually make it look like it's twisting off >> in your vascular correspondent kyung lah joins us now. what i mean if anything, our campaigns doing to try to guard again let's this well, here's one window

into some of the interests in this phase. anderson pin drop that company. you just heard of in that story says that they are we're getting a lot of interests from political campaigns, right now. and that in the coming months they expect to have some announcements in this space. so this is just one company and we have a long way to go before the end of 2024 and november. and part of the reason why there's so much interest here is because all of us we have human ears that naturally compensate and fills in the blaze. our brains want to believe what we see in here, anderson, john locke, thanks so much coming up next the supreme court hearing arguments today in two cases that could change what you see on social media. i'll talk it over with cnn contributor kara swisher >> tech works hard at our one, it's twice as hard when you take it again the next day. so betty could be the barcode beat conductor >> let's be more for dinner, allergies and for fast allergy relief with a powerful

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>> called king charles wednesday at ten on cnn >> stakes battle at the supreme court today, justices appeared divided as they heard arguments in two cases that could change what you find a social media and other websites. texas and florida want to stop youtube and tiktok, instagram, facebook, and others from being able to remove content that expresses certain viewpoints. the legislation in both states was in response to accusations from former president trump and others who said the platforms were hindering conservative perspectives, but tech companies say they have the right to set rules and argue without the power to dump posts or users it'll give airtime to misinformation or hate speech. joining us to talk about it. cnn contributor tech journalists and podcasts or kara swisher, who's fascinating new memoir, burn book a tech love story goes on sale tomorrow >> congratulations on the >> a couple of, a lot of things i want to ask you about. first of all, the supreme court hearing today about how whether tech giant should be treated like, like phone companies. how do you see this? >> well, i not usually on tech

side, but in this case it's ridiculous that the government is trying to impose what they should and shouldn't say that these tech companies have first amendment rights. they're also not the public square and they're trying to put there trying to use the word censorship to get everyone upset because it gets people well in this country all rattled. if you use that word, but these are private companies that can do what they want. >> the first met him a place to governments correct. >> protocol. they actually read the >> first amendment that attorney general, texas, for example, it actually says government shall make no law, not, not google or not facebook or anything else. >> you i mean, in the book, you your trajectory is fascinating. you were a young journalist, young reporter. and the only one around who was really interested in digital stuff from the beginning. >> yeah, i was young one like give it to the young one that's really it was exactly like that and i was interested i was interested in phones. i was very interested in and i covered retail and when i saw craigslist, i worried about the death of newspapers right away. you see all those economic underpinnings we're going. and they didn't see it and i was

like don't you see what's happening kind of thing and it's also passing because you write about all of the the giants in tech who we know about from the various earliest times you met them now and the trajectories, i just want to ask you about a couple elon musk. >> i met him when he was a company called zip2, which was basically yellow pages online, then he kinda got tossed out there. he made a few million, but not not a great history who is very typical of a lot of those people. and then he moved on to something called x.com, which was a competitor of paypal. they merged and luckily sold off to ebay and then that's where he made his money. >> you in the book you're writing about him now as sort of all his worst impulses are what we see now, that's correct. >> the he had 10% of it was i don't know if i can say jokes, but it was jokes and jokes and memes and things like that. and then that was 10% of his personality. then he was super interesting and he was covering like cars and solar and space that was substantive. everyone else was making a digital dry cleaning service. he wasn't. and that was that's what attracted meeting the big

ideas. and i liked that. >> and now what do you think of him? >> i think he's still doing big ideas, but something's happened to his personality is something drastic and disturbing. he's been he's been radicalized in some way. >> you write about jeff bezos, also known from from the beginning. what do you make him his trajectory? i think i don't know if it was in the book or in an interview. i read that you said that he would eat your face off if he needed to. >> pharrell. and when i met him for the first time, he was older than the ones i was and people recovering were very young at the time i met them. geoff was he was already successful. he'd worked on wall street and he was an adult. he had a wife. he was later he had children pretty early. and so he's a very different character. he was into logistics in math and so he was doing logistics company is what he was doing. it didn't matter. they're selling books >> and so he was a different he's a different cat. you know what i mean? it's a different person. and so i just thought he was wildly ambitious in a way that was more common to me, more like the bill gates kind of character in the book you write about january 6. on january 6, 2021 scenario that i concocted with twitter

executives in 2019 told me it was preposterous and responsible to write became a reality. yeah, walk us through that. >> so i wrote a column and in fact, i had a column in the near times for a while because i really wanted to show i wanted to cause alarm and i knew then york times would be the place they would pay attention to it. and so one of the columns i wrote was in 2019 where i said, if donald trump loses the election, it's not unusual to think he's going to say it's a fraud. when he says it's a fraud, it's going to it was just gonna go up and down the online food chain that exists on the right which is very vast and it goes back and forth. so he's going to say it's a lie. this is going to say its allies going to say it's always going to repeat it like propaganda. and then he's gonna ask his people well to do something about it in the real-world and it's going to jump from online to offline. and i was like, and he's going to ask them to stop the results and i said that when i wrote that, i was called i was called out by tech companies like this is preposterous ridiculous. we're not responsible. i said i didn't say you are fully responsible. i said this could happen and you did.

>> there is an arrogance in silicon valley about from a lot of these founders, these titans who are, i mean, they're doing extraordinary things but there is this. i mean, am i wrong and feeling this. >> it's just like you'd never have a wall street person telling you they're going to build community there. i'm here to take your money. they're here to ensure very clear on wall street that we're about money and the first line of this book is, it was capitalism. after all. i just don't want to hear this nonsense about changing the world when they control the world. >> mark zuckerberg was asked at a congressional hearing on social media, i want to play that moment because it's very dramatic. >> this is why we invest so much efforts to make sure that your families, as you point out repeatedly, there's been no regulation, no of the social media companies. now, there's

is there any other industry that has happened? no, it's not specifically. and section 230 protects them actually from liability. there's hardly any liability they are born, they can't murder people, but neither can the rest of us, right? well, maybe they can. i don't know. >> in that case, those parents thought that facebook and others hadn't had a thing and it listen to what he said to their children, right? listen to what he said. did he say i'm sorry for what i've done or did he say i'm sorry for what's happened to you? there's a very big difference. he still can't take even the smallest amount of responsibility. think. >> how should they be responsible, whether it's for those parents should be able to sue. they'll lose or win in court. that's fine. that seems fair for everybody else, even donald trump's in court. >> when you look at this next election coming up are we going to see all the same issues we saw in 2020? >> some of them. and then there's gonna be more deep fakes are because, you know, we'll have to figure it out and work through. but my issue is these are unaccountable people making decisions for the rest of us and not paying the price of damage >> kara swisher. thank you. so thank you.

>> the