the fact, but i side with her. keep jeffries on this. it's over it's done. even joe biden has an add out. now, going after his age and actually meeting that issue head-on. so i think that there is a lot behind the administration at this point to say, let's turn this page, let's move on and frankly, i think that we won't we won't need to get back to it again, the waters are muddy on this now, obviously trump's facing charges. biden isn't, but that was the net win for the republicans here is that muddy waters mean i thought her was competent, straightforward, and not the utricle. >> so i'm not surprised an impressive yeah, i'm not surprised. people on capitol hill didn't like him because that's not what they are. not the place for you. >> all right. all right. thanks very much to all and thanks so much to all of you for joining us as president biden has clinched that nomination, trump has won the state of georgia and america's choice 2024. special coverage continues now with anderson

>> tonight on 361 big night thank two big stories. >> motors making president biden the presumptive democratic nominee with donald trump just hours away from the republican nod. meaning that by the end of tonight, the 2020 24 race will be officially set to georgia in the last hour, putting the president with the 1,968 delegates, he needs the former president expected to reach the 1,200 he needs with washington state later tonight >> the other big story tonight, former special counsel robert hur, telling the house judiciary committee why he didn't indict president biden i didn't over his handling of classified documents. and also taking fire from both sides of the aisle for the decisions that he did make that first the election and breaking news polls have just close in mississippi and cnn can now make a projection cnn projects that former president trump will win the state pudding him that much closer to 1,215

delegates. he needs to secure the nomination. we can also project that president biden will be the winner on the democratic side, neither outcome, obviously prize, but significant in terms of the delegate count. so i want to go to cnn's political director david chalian, who is tracking all of this. so where do things stand right now for the former president david? >> yeah, anderson, 40 delegates at stake and mississippi tonight, donald trump wins all of them because the rules are that if you get over 50% of the vote in the state, it is winner-take-all he's going to get over 50% of the vote as the last man standing with no real opposition in this campaign. so add those 40 delegates to where he isn't. so this is where donald trump finds himself. now, you noted 1,200 and upper right-hand corner there. he needs to secure the republican nomination. he's now at 1108 ed for delegates that puts him 31 delegates away from securing the republican party nomination. that will likely happen when washington vote, when washington state's votes

come in later this evening in the 11:00 eastern hour. obviously, as you noted, anderson, this is not a surprise, and this is not the balloon i'm drop moment. that'll happen in the convention in milwaukee in the summer when the delegates make it official. but donald trump securing the nomination and joe biden doing the same. that's a pivot point in this campaign. what about president biden? >> yeah you said he went over the top in the last hour, georgia, a major general election battleground, say put them there, he gets 35 more delegates out of mississippi to his total tonight because he won that state is you just projected so look at where joe biden is to date, he's now well over the 1,968 needed to win. he's at 2000 and lemon delegates uncommitted as 20 delegates in this race right now. but joe biden has secured, he is renomination again, all but the official work at the convention in chicago for the democrats this summer when the delegates meet there. but this rematch is set and we are going to continue day-by-day for months now watching these two

gentlemen go through these general election battleground states making their case to voters. >> all right, david chalian, will check in with you shortly for more on the white house reaction, the president's big night, let's go to cnn's mj lee. so how does the biden campaign responding? >> yeah. anderson, we've just gotten a statement from president biden saying that he is honored to officially have clinched the democratic nomination for president. and echoing some of the language that we saw from the state of the union address last week, he said the country is currently in the middle of a comeback but he goes on to say, amid this progress, we face a sobering reality freedom and democracy are at risk here at home in a way that they have not been since the civil war. donald trump is running a campaign of resentment, revenge, and retribution that threatens the very idea of america. he goes on to say, voters now have a choice to make about the future of this country. are we going to stand up and defend our democracy or let other's territory? down now, anderson, the biden campaign, of course, fully expected that they would cross that threshold tonight. but the fact that it was the

state of georgia that put the president over the top is sort of the cherry on top for this campaign. remember the president defeated former president donald trump in that state in 2020. that was the first time that a democratic presidential candidate had won that state in some 28 years. and there's no question that this state in their minds is a battleground state going to november, it's a state that they want to win. there's a reason that the president actually went there over the week of over the weekend as one of his first stops as a part of his post-state of the union tour and zooming out. of course, anderson this evening is of course, symbolically really important. it's also just one more moment where the campaign is hoping that voters who have not been tuned in so far, we'll start to tune in and actually realize that the 2024 race is in fact going to be between president biden and donald trump, mj. i mean, obviously some voters were tuned into the classified documents hearing in front of congress today. how concerned? our is the biden campaign about that controversy dogging the president through the election season.

>> i think it's fair to say that the white house and the campaign are really in a different place than when the first the robert hur report, i should say, first came out last month. there was so much anger, so much frustration and nervousness about this report and all of the age and memory issues that the report went through. but i think now that the hearing is over and particularly after that state of the union address last week, that many of his supporters said was so successful, i think we are seeing some of that anxiety dissipating at least for now. and obviously despite robert hur himself saying that he isn't exonerating the president. we've seen the white house literally saying case close. they think the president is innocent and they are fully ready to move on from this. >> jay lee, thanks very much. kaitlan anderson, i'm here with john king. where else at the magic wall as we are looking ahead to the general election, now that we're having these two presumptive nominees starting officially tonight. i mean, you can see what president biden's mindset is and where he's going, given the fact that he is literally going to wisconsin. and the next few

days. >> so look where he's going, right? he's going to wisconsin he's got michigan on the schedule. he spends a lot of time in pennsylvania. he's talking tonight about a win in georgia why is that important? well, this is the map last time he got 306 electoral votes, but kaitlan, if you look at where david chalian, our political team have looked at where are we right now very early, emphasized, very, very, very early it's in march. we have so many questions. we haven't answered about third-party candidates, trump's running mate, will there be trials this year? there's so much more vote conventions with a long way to go. but right now, look where he's going, right? he battleground, we now call pennsylvania a battleground state. we lean michigan red for trump wisconsin is a toss-up. georgia. we lean red for trump meeting. there's public polling showing if the election were tomorrow trump would likely win. so we lean it that way. so the map is not as favorable right now to joe biden. in fact, our projection has trumped actually getting to 270. so if you're the president added states, what are you doing right now? playing on your strengths, you've just clinched your the presumptive nominee and addressing your weaknesses by getting out into the battleground states, talking about the issues and to the people you need to talk to. trump has to do the same thing even in the results in georgia

tonight, in some areas, nikki haley's getting a high vote in the suburbs. so that's what you do now that you've clinched what are you got to fix? >> yeah. and trump's obviously keeping a close on the senate as well. but the other notable part of this is we're looking at this 2020 rematch coming in 2024. it was all about the margins and we see what a critical difference that makes it. so i think that raises the question about these third-party candidates because, you know, joe biden, did it face any well-funded challengers like president trump did for president trump. but what does that mean when it comes to the margins here, let's take a look. >> let's start with the green party, which is more established. it already has ballot access in 20 states. it could get more as we move on, but it's already guaranteed in 20 states, including michigan, wisconsin, and arizona right? battleground states, maine, always a very close competitive state. the green party candidate will be on the ballot. ask hillary clinton about jill stein, michigan 2016. that's not a pleasant conversation, right? so that's just the green party. then you switch over one. we're watching very closely is robert kennedy jr. now, we're waiting for these to be certified, right? he's on the ballot in utah. he says a super pac working with his campaign says you have

enough signatures, no reason to doubt them. we just have to watch the state certify this in arizona, a battleground michigan battleground, georgia, a battlegrounds. so again, if you have a green party candidate and robert kennedy jr. on the ballot, just like you had gary johnson and jill stein in 2016. another one more possibility we're keeping an eye on. it's been less effective so far, is cornell west who right? now says he's on the ballot, south carolina, utah, oregon, and alaska. but again, how many third-party candidates, which states, how many ballots, how many states do they get ballot access in which states, if they are your michigan's, you're was pennsylvania, georgia, nevada, your arizona, than they could make the difference. >> who's the most worried about that though, because there's arguments by people on both sides, neither of them want them in the race. trump has gone after rfk junior, but so has the white house. so who is it worse for? i guess. so let me come back to the >> national map and just say that who knows, right? that i think is a great question in the sense that you have an incumbent president so the green party just go back to 2016 and you come to the presidential election and you just come in here to michigan. trump wins by 10,000 votes. you

can say gary johnson, most pure libertarians, lean republican rights, less government get power out of washington. so maybe that's a republican vote oh, gary johnson had run before it's an interesting, but just look at that number. 51,000 votes, right? 51,000 votes, 10,000 is the margin in the state. donald trump wins by 10,000 in the state if you look at the math right now, you're the kennedy name. you say, oh, democrats, however, in my travels, you mean a lot of people who voted for trump in 2016 and some again in 2020, who are attracted to robert kennedy. listen to joe rogan for example, things like that. he's looking at jesse ventura and aaron rodgers as potential running mates according to the new york times tonight, what does that tell you? those aren't democrats? those aren't democrats. so that's potentially, that's why you have to go state-by-state. what state ballots are they on? how competitive are those states? and then shoe leather reporting, polling, other data to find out who they're drawing from. >> yeah, we'll see all the jets feel about that. john king anderson back to you, kaitlan. >> thanks, got cnn political commentators of all stripes here with me, van jones, karen finney, alyssa farah griffin and david urban. van. and what's your reaction to president biden clinching the nomination?

>> well, here we go. here we go. i mean, it's going to be a long one by the longest general elections in history. usually, you have a little bit longer to get to get ready, but i think a lot of democrats were nervous, were concerned word despondent fearful. and then we saw red bull biden last week as like, oh, this guy can actually get out there and do some things. and so i think people now want to get out and find a way forward. but i do think that you got a lot of double-haters is going to be a contest. where are the double-haters go? people who don't like biden, people who don't like trump are they going to go third party? can we get him back on our side? there's going to be a lot of tug of war over a very small number of votes and five or six states. but i think this week, biden clenching build a lot better than when it thought a couple of weeks ago, just in terms of the length is karen i mean, it the ugliness with which it was so much time let's just get like punch after punch after punch. >> you know, i will never forget when trump got in in

2016 saying that campaign headquarters and thinking is this the floor or the ceiling when he's talking about mexicans being rapists and murderers. and as we've seen, right, there was a penthouse phil, i mean, so yeah. look, i think both well, i can't speak for donald trump, but i certainly think the biden campaign is mindful of that. and i think as you saw on the state of the union speech, very mindful that in addition to the attacks on trump, they've got to continue to put forward a positive message and it's interesting the statement that president biden put out tonight, that's one of the clips that's a little bit of a summary from his state of the union message. it's one of the clips that have that some of the outside groups have been testing that did very well. >> it looks actually, he put out a statement on x, formerly twitter let's take a look. >> we will record number you ready ready to protect our

freedom? are you ready to win this election >> that's what in the statement your done. >> yeah. >> when he talks about the future and defending democracy, i mean, again, i think that's the other dynamic we're going to see in this campaign. joe biden's going to try to take on trump, but also talk about the future and try to win over those voters that family was just talking about who are in the middle, who are tired of relitigating 2020. and who actually want to know what are you going to do? so that's going to be part of that effort. couple of other things. social security, medicare, not surprised that did very well in the testing. when he talked about this sort of economic populism that did very well. so those are just going to be some of the themes that you well here because they're resonating with voters of all stripes. >> it's shingle was at how democrats seem a lot more optimistic since the state of the union address. and that's just been what, one week or so. we have so many weeks to go,

like the emotional roller coaster that this isn't going to be fine already exhausted by the idea, the way like pouring one out for the 6.10 americans myself included who didn't want this rematch. here we are. it is going to be very long, eight months ahead. and yes biden got momentum out of the state of the union. i think he outperformed a lot of folks expectation, but maintaining that for the next eight months on the campaign trail, traveling across the country, that's exhausting. i've been there for it. he's going to have to do that to prove he's ready. now, donald trump is in an advantageous position right now to chalian's point, he would win if the election were today. but some huge vulnerabilities, the rnc has an absolute disaster. he's behind in the money race. joe biden is massively outraising him. and on top of that, you've got this nikki haley factor, these voters who just are not sure they're ever going to be able to be with him. biden's got plenty of vulnerabilities, but trump does as well. >> he isn't sold his daughter-in-law, though at the rnc. so that should clear who has a huge experienced, fundraising campaign >> building but campaigners,

trump's defense, she's done she's done an accident good job at this. its role. she's been doing it for four years. the co-chair of the rnc is largely a fundraiser figurehead position, and i think she'll continue to do a good job. i listen. i think you guys keep whistling past the graveyard over there. that's exactly where the republican party wants you, right? you refer to red bull joe. you better have like a tanker truck, full red bone, driver behind it because one-and-a-half hours of reading off a teleprompter does not a campaign make. we've all been there. it's hard on an average human being, let alone an 80 year-old human being van talks a little bit about the double-haters. where do they go that third party, that ad that use ron, the charron said it was tested well, right. you heard in there. we will there's a lot of optimism. we will vote in record numbers. if record numbers don't show up to vote, for joe biden loses, right? we are going to fight for democracy and freedom you know, it's hard. 18% of americans, only 18% said that they benefited from biden policy. so when you're sitting at home, you can't pay for groceries. democracy is not at khan your list. let me show >> you the numbers from georgia tonight for president trump

because there's a lot of i mean, 15, nikki haley got 15% in georgia. what is the former president need to do to so he think a lot of them will just automatically go to the well, listen, so some of those folks will come home, right? they will come home at the end of the day. some of them walt, some of them may have never voted for they may be people that never voted for trump to begin with, right? they may have been people by the whip party who just have never voted for, right? >> so open mind that donald trump's gonna be running a lot of this campaign from the courtroom. he's got the hush money trial coming up in new york. he will likely at least begin the trial for january 6. he is going to be strapped, frankly, just for time and ability to be the places that he needs to be. i think he would be wise to have surrogates let's to go around, but he has not shown an ability to pivot to a general election message. he was on cnbc saying, we're going to cut your social security and medicaid. he's been criticizing and attacking nikki haley when he needs her very voters to get across the finish line. i'm not sure he's ready for it. >> well, we'll see i mean, that's why we have elections, right. so it's better than four of us sitting around. look, i think donald trump, i spent a little time with the former president last week, incredibly vigorous, right? i did not. ms

it a beat. were his shoulders broaden? it was at his shows listed here he is ready for this fight. i will tell you lots of places trouble do that again in 24 and a lot about where soda and a lot of red bullet more ahead tonight, including former special counsel robert hur's capitol hill testimony today, the heat he took on his decision not to indict president biden is characterization of the president is mental sharpness and other choices he made. we'll talk to congressman jamie raskin who took part in the hearing ahead and later denied georgia, which we were just talking about and what the judge himself is saying about how soon he might rule on whether fani willis, the district attorney in fulton county, could be removed from the trump election case that she brought listen, cooper 360, he is brought to you by teba visit. sounds like td.com >> dan made progress with his mental health but his medication caused unintentional

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visit xfinitymobile.com today to learn more. facts of propane.com slash. now what happened to the golden boy of new jersey, governor jim aggreviate. >> i engaged in an adult consensual affair with another man. it was shocked was it an instant attraction? yeah. >> greed these top under investigation, he put a lover want to stay payroll or reasons human grieving resigned is a lot more complicated and we remember did you want to be outed united states of scandal with jake tapper? >> i've got to get a therapist if they're having an interview with jake. >> new episodes and day and night on cnn >> as we said at the top, the broadcast, a decisive night in the 2024 primary and accounts a big day on capitol hill, one would certainly saw its share of presidential politics playing out as former special counsel robert hur testified before the house judiciary committee. now he was there to explain his decision not to seek indictments against president biden for retaining classified by documents after his time as vice president, he

came under fire from republicans for that and from democrats for the way he explained his decision, especially his characterization of president biden as a quote, well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory who the former special counsel told the committee that quote, partisan politics had no place whatsoever in my work it was certainly surrounded by it today with members of both sides using their questions at times to score some points. committee chairman jim jordan used his time, for example, does suggest the president was in it for the money hey, it's 231. you said this president biden had strong motivations. that's a key word we're getting a motive now, president biden had strong motivations to ignore the proper procedures for safeguarding the classified information in his notebooks why did he have strong motivations be cause you next word, because he decided months before leaving office to write a book to write a book that was his motive. he knew the rules,

he broke him cause he was writing a book. and you further say andy began meeting with the ghostwriter while he was still vice president there's the motive. >> mr. hur, >> how much did president biden get paid for his book >> off the top of my head. i'm not sure if that information appears in the report, sir, does there's $1 amount in there? you remember >> i don't it may be 8 million if that's elian dollars. joe biden had 8 million reasons to break the rules committee democrats meantime, use their time to throw the spotlight and don't trump who by contrast to president biden has been indicted multiple times in multiple venues and 91 felony counts did you find that prison biden directed his lawyer to lie to the fbi? >> we identified no such evidence >> did you find that president biden during his lawyer to destroy classified documents? >> no. >> did you find that president biden directed his personal assistant to move boxes of documents to hide them from the fbi? >> no. >> did you find the president biden directed his personal

assistant to delete security camera footage after the fbi asked for that footage, know did. you find that president biden showed a classified map related to an ongoing military operation to a campaign aide who did not have clearance? >> no >> they finally, president biden engaged in a conspiracy to obstruct justice no. did you find that president biden engaged in a scheme to conceal know >> several democrats also rank clips. the former president acting in so many words, like an elderly man with a poor memory, some saw there questioning, backfire democratic congresswoman pramila jayapal for one, who told her, quote, you exonerated him, meaning president biden to her replied, i did not that word does not appear in the report. >> yes. republican scott fitzgerald asked her if his report found that president biden was senile or her said no, joining us now, democratic congressman jamie raskin, ranking member of the house oversight committee, who was given special privileges to take part in today's hearing. cars, women, what did you think of robert hur and how he acquitted himself today? >> well, i'd like the fact

that he stuck by the conclusions of his report, which we're that president biden should not be charged criminally for anything. and he stuck by the statement that president biden had cooperated fully and and i hesitatingly in the investigation and then he's stuck by his own elaborate contrast between biden and trump, because trump tried to hide evidence. he tried to destroy evidence. he lied about the evidence and he kept these dotted these classified documents for months before he turned some of them. but not all of them over. and so he really pointed out this was apples and oranges. >> i want to play some of what you had to say this morning of the hearing? >> president biden did not assert executive privilege or claim absolute immunity from presidential crimes. he did not hide boxes of documents under his bed or in a bathtub. he did not fight investigators, nor

did he seek to redact a single word of mr. hur's report he consented to the search of numerous locations, including his homes, and he did everything he could, to cooperate, not obstruct, unlike president biden, trump did not alert the national archives or doj of the documents, nor did he turn over all the classified materials in his possession he did not agree to sit down for a voluntary interview with the special counsel. he never consented to a search of his home on the contrary, trump's suggested that his attorney hide or destroy evidence requested by the fbi and you're making the argument for his body was far more cooperative than former president trump was regarding the classified documents at mar-a-lago, one of the things that congressman schiff was trying to >> say to robert hur and get him to admit was essentially that that hers language was overly broad in his descriptions of the president's cognitive state.

>> do you think >> robert hur went too far and the language that he used? >> he wondered pretty far afield from what is real charge is and was really the whole thing could have ended after the very first sentence when he concluded that there were no grounds in a warrant for criminal charges. so i can understand some of my colleagues colleagues frustration with him having added those words, which he must have known would have been politically explosive. but i got to say that those words did not have the same kind of charge at all today in the wake of president biden's triumphant state of the union address, where he was on performance for for several hours. he gave a brilliant speech. it was a political game changer. and then he engaged in a lot of amusing and effective report with all of the

rhetorical ninja fighters and hecklers of the freedom caucus. and he showed exactly how with it he is in. so i think that really took the edge off of those comments about how he was an older man with a weak memory and all that. >> it didn't seem that hur was saying today that perhaps a little shade different than new york portraying it, that that that some jurors might have actually voted to convict president biden, and that that essentially it was he didn't think he could convince a jury that the president had committed these crimes it sounded like the argument he was making wasn't necessarily that there wasn't perhaps a reason that somebody might have brought charges, just he didn't think it was possible to convince a jury i mean, all of that hypothetical speculation and second guessing of his own decision really does seem to veer outside

>> of the proper boundaries of prosecutorial conduct and it does seem as if he was bending over backwards to send a political message to his allies. the republican party that although there weren't grounds to go forward for criminal prosecution, he was going to throw them a boehner to and i can understand congressman shifts frustration about that. i shared that somewhat, but again, i think that president biden just wiped all of that stuff out. he is framed what this election and what this administration is about. it's about defending democracy and freedom. and as i said today, it is a memory test, but it's not a memory test for president biden. it's a memory test for america. do we remember fascism? do we remember naziism and communism and totalitarianism? do we know what we're up against in terms of the authoritarian forces? that have rallied around donald trump, including victor orban, who had a slumber party at mar-a-lago over the weekend and came out pronouncing how pleased he was that donald

trump had said he would not give one penny to the people of ukraine resisting were bans friend vladimir putins, filthy imperialism bloody invasion and war against the people of ukraine. that's what the election is about. that's the real memory test. >> guardsman raskin, thank you for your time >> you bet. >> anderson here what they are legal and political team, carrie cordero, andrew mccabe, paula reid, tia mitchell, kate bedingfield, and doug heye and carrie, what do you make of how what you heard from the congressman there and also what we heard from robert hur today about how the transcript actually lined up with how he described president biden's mental acuity in his report? >> well, i think the mental acuity piece plays a lot into the political reaction to special counsel hur's report because that's the piece that his president biden's defenders and his political allies want to push up against, and that's what his political adversaries want to emphasize. but i think

what special counsel hur did today is he really effectively defended the findings of his report, which we're that there was not a basis to established beyond a reasonable doubt that president biden had committed any kind of a crime and so his report is over 340 pages long >> it >> details, i think in some ways goes into too much detail things that are extraneous to what his actual finding was. but he did, i think in a professional way and in a way that well represented the work that he tried to do and that his team tried to do the fact that they conduct a thorough investigation and there just was nothing to prosecute there. >> i mean, paula reid, robert hur had no friends in that hearing room today, whether it was republicans or democrats and at one point when pramila jayapal, the congresswoman, tried to say that his report exonerated biden choose kind of moving along and robert hurt jumped in to say, i did not exonerate the president here. it's just a you just touched on >> two of the goals he had walking into that room. the

first was i'm not trying to make anybody happy. and the second was was emphasized the fact that he didn't i think that biden was completely innocent. it was that he did not believe that he could charge this case and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. so i think the problem going forward though, is he also made it clear that that determination was based not just on the transcript that we finally got today, but also in the audio recording of that interview and coming out of the hearing they clearly didn't get what they wanted out of rob hur republicans made it clear that they're going to try to get that audio. now, her deferred to the justice department and the white house, either one of which i think are going to release it. but i think the white house is going to be asked about this probably every day until the 11th >> andrew mccabe you've worked there. do you think that they'll they'll release this? >> i think they'll do everything humanly possible to avoid it. we'll see how big, how much that pressure is brought to bear on them to get that stuff out. i don't think there's probably, you know, they've gotten the most important testimony in the transcript they received today. so what they hear from other witnesses the idea that

congress is now going to parse through the results of 174 interviews of witnesses in varying capacities from senior white house staffers to staffers of catering companies who hosted events or who worked events in the delaware beach house you know, what sort of mischief they'll make with a pile of evidence that they clearly don't even understand is really beyond me. >> i mean, are republicans because they didn't get what they necessarily wanted today, kind of shifting the goalposts by now, demanding the audio of these interviews that robert hur did welcome to congress goalposts or never, it's never happened. they always move and looked at this was all very interesting theater here in washington and if you go to a committee room, they're sort of two background rooms, sort of like locker rooms. a democrat, democrats have one, republicans have one. there called the cloakrooms to where they coordinate. i'm going to ask this, what are you going to ask? and they hope that they know what the the answer is before they asked the question, this was unique in that both

sides were trying to get at the same person as opposed to one side go after on one side, lift up that person. but let's also remember, we're in washington dc and as we look at the states that were voting today, whether it's mississippi, georgia, wherever else. the people in those states aren't looking at this. they're not focused on it. they don't know who robert hur is into congressman raskin is point. they probably don't think a whole lot about viktor orban as well and what his positions are on anything. they're looking at gas prices, they're looking at at their utility prices, food prices, all that are going up, they're living their daily lives. they're not focused on the drama in washington. >> kate bedingfield, i mean, you know, president biden, as well as anyone you want at this table. what do you make of how he responded when this report first came out and what you actually read in the transcript today? >> well, the transcript today was vintage joe biden. i mean, that is joe biden's conversational the cars the car sounds the stories, the details mean to me, it's sort of amusing actually that the republican line of attack on this was that he couldn't remember details because that transcript was saturated with

details. so i think republicans really wanted a slam dunk here. they felt, i think when the special counsel's report first came out, that they had a real opening here. i think the combination of obviously as congressman raskin mentioned, the combination of the state of the union and the strong performance that the president gave at the state of the union, which is to doug's point, what more americans will see than any wrangling and in a committee room on the hill that combined with i think the totality of the transcript, the president making salient points, returning to the point he made in many cases questioning robert hur on push getting back on questions he was asking. i think you have a full picture of a very engaged president, and so i don't think the republicans got the home run that they were looking for here. >> how did you see it as you've covered both of these politicians, both these groups, so well, yeah, i think that we knew that her both republicans and democrats wanted to accomplish something thing by their questioning of special counsel, i think that

representative loose line of questioning, particularly where he was asking the statements that trump has been accused of. and he said, did you find that her did you find that biden did these things in her repeatedly said no, he didn't do these things and that created that contrast. between why former president trump is facing charges and why president biden is not in sumy. that was the most compelling and that will be the sound bites that are most easily digestible to regular people who are seeing the recaps on news. >> and we also saw that contrast last night when we were for speaking with trump employee five in the classified documents indictment, who is a former mar-a-lago employee who is talking about those efforts to keep those documents out of the hands of federal investigators. this is what brian butler told me did the two of you ever talk about moving boxes are looking back on that? >> yeah. i mean, there was one time >> towards one of the last

times i was with them and we're talking about boxes and, while biden did the same thing, you can't get, it always got brought up about biden and other people that did the same thing. and then there was one time he said you know, we're all dirty, we all moved boxes i mean that was one thing we did not hear from robert hur today. they're already the witnesses in his report >> know. and i think that's a remarkable point. right? we've spent so much time today rehashing the language that he used in the report and people opining as to whether he should have made references to the memory in the way that he did those her to things what really stood out to me is this several hundred page report 174 witnesses other than the president himself and his ghostwriter. there's not any testimony in this entire report provided by a single witness who could add evidence that the president did any of this in a willful way that would have put him in the crosshairs of a criminal investigation. >> 7 >> million documents they looked at emails, they looked at text messages, and they

haven't pointed to a single one that would indicate a level of intentionality on the president that would that would have turned this report in a very different directions. so there is clearly a paucity of evidence despite a massive amount of work that went into this over 15 months? yeah, >> certainly a contrast still to come here tonight, will fani willis, the district attorney in georgia, be disqualified from that rico case that she brought but against the former president and 18 of his co-defendants. you may know the answer quite soon. new information on the timing of that judge's decision. plus president biden's biographer is going to join us to talk about whether the president that we see in this special counsel's transcript is the same person that he is interviewed countless times, including just two months ago to be a headliner was vegas >> that's what i want to do. >> they had the biggest entertainers in america

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>> i'm clarissa ward in jerusalem, and this is cnn president biden, officially clinching the democratic nomination after winning his party's primary tonight in the state of georgia, donald trump also projected to win georgia's republican primary and clench his party's nomination soon we'll keep an eye on that but meantime, in georgia, there is a major decision that is looming in the trump election interference case. their agenda a judge says that he is on track to rule this week on whether or not to disqualify the fulton county district attorney, fani willis, over allegations of misconduct involving a romantic relationship with the lead prosecutor that she hired in that case. >> it >> is an extremely

consequential decision for donald trump's fate in the state of georgia. cnn's nic valencia is in atlanta and has been covering this entire saga. and nick, what are we hearing now from judge mcafee about when this decision could be coming? >> well, kaitlan, first of all, it came as a shock to many of us following this case closely that mcafee would grant an interview, but he did recently to wsp radio in atlanta to talk about his reelection bid the challenger he faces for that november election. and it was during this eight minute interview that he spoke about his pending decision on whether or not to remove fani willis from prosecuting donald trump and his remaining co-defendants. and he said that he is on track to have a decision by the end of this week >> i gave myself a deadline because i knew everyone wanted an answer. and i'll tell you an order like this takes time to write there's a lot that means i have to go through. and so i've had again, i want to size this. i've had a rough draft and an outline before i ever heard a rumor that someone

wanted to run for this position. so the result is not going to change because of politics. i'm calling it as best i can in the law as high as as i understand it. >> to say that there's a lot of anticipation for his decision would be a huge, huge understatement. katelyn. >> yeah, it does so many implications for this. i mean, for him himself, you know, one thing we've talked about as he used to work with districts to tourney, fani willis, there's a lot of overlap here. when did he talk it all in this interview, this rare interview about how this entire decision is impacting him personally he did and he talks about his children. he's got two young children, 3.5 years old, and they don't see him as this judge presiding over this historic case are rightfully so they just see him as dad, but he did say that he looks forward to the day when they grew up and he said that he's looking forward to being able to look them in the rye and said that he did the best they could and he played it straight. this is a monumental decision for judge mcafee. if he does decide to remove fani

willis and new prosecution team would take over and that would likely mean there would be no trial before the november election. katelyn. >> yeah. nick valencia, if he wants to do any other interviews, be sure to let us know got. it thank you. >> anderson >> thanks. want to talk more about our breaking news this evening. the importance of clinching the nomination for president biden, plus whether the president we see in that special counsel transcript is the same person that those who know him well have seen up close. i'm joined now by someone who's interviewed, president biden many times over the decades, as well as rina remarkable biography about the president evan osnos, his latest book is on the deep division in the us, is titled wildland the making of america's fury, ebitda was really interesting to see the transcript of his interviews with the special counsel that were released earlier today versus what was in the initial report by the special counsel so i'm wondering what the difference you saw in the way it was described by her and the actual transcript itself and what the transcript of his interviews with the special

counsel, like the man you've interviewed? >> yeah, it was quite remarkable honestly to read the transcript and to see a wait a second. this is exactly the person who i saw in the oval office a few weeks ago when i interviewed a meaning, he sparring with his interviewers. he's telling stories, some of which i've heard from him going years back others of which are about details of foreign policy, things that he's involved in at the moment, look, it's really remarkable to compare it to where we were five weeks ago that was a time when americans were genuinely wondering, is this guy no longer able to remember the date? one of the most significant moments of his life, the death of his son and what we see in the transcript is this essential nuance, the context for all of those interactions that really makes it much more frankly, sort of normal and much more lucid. i think it's interesting on that question on the date, because in the transcript, which wasn't in the special counsel's report >> he remembered the day and the month. he was just sort of speaking out loud, saying what

year was that? and i was i mean, in a much more conversational way as opposed to sort of really he stumbling over what year it was. >> yeah. it's a crucial distinction at something that i think it was not really visible at all in the special report, what you see in the transcript and your term is right? he was essentially sort of thinking out loud. he's saying, all right, you're asking me about my data handling practices at a certain point and the vote in the post vice presidency. so when did i stopping by? he's president. all right. well then here's how i handled documents back then. here are the people who were moving boxes for me. one of the things that comes through here is this is not a guy who was rooting through boxes a whole lot in his years after being vice president, he was working on these other things like his book cancer research, and things like that >> i want to put the moment from the hearing today when congresswoman madeline dean pushed back on your report on page 208 says that mr. biden couldn't come up with the date, the year of his son, beau biden's death, when in fact, in the transcript, it shows

that you asked him the month and do you know what he said mr. hur? he said, oh god, may 30. would you like to correct the record? his memory was pretty firm on the month and a day, >> congresswoman, i don't believe that's correct. with respect to the transcript, but if you could refer me to a specific page, i'd be happy to look from the transcription page ad to the boards. are president biden's what month did beau die? oh god. >> may 30, a searing memory >> so i mean, just to circle back on this base on the transcript, devin didn't seem to you that the president was confused. >> know, he knows exactly the date that this happened. what was confusing about it was this question of when, what timeframe were they talking about? that i think is it gets to the heart of this because what americans, if you step back for a second, anderson, what americans really want to understand is, does this man have an understanding of the life he's lived, of the meaningful moments in, or is he losing grip on the chronology? what anybody sees if they look at that transcript is what people see when they're around them, which is he knows these

events, this is this was a five-hour interview where they're running around on the calendar i wonder between 2,009.20, 24. frankly, i think a lot of people would be tested to stay firm on dates in that kind of window of announcements. >> thanks for much perspective now from our panel plus two former federal prosecutor, jessica roth and elie honig just got me now, you've heard the special counsel's testimony. you've seen the transcripts. do you agree with his decision? >> oh, yes. and i thought that the most the most important takeaways from the testimony today, consistent with this report was that he found that charges weren't warranted in this case based on the evidence that he uncovered and he also made clear that president biden was fully cooperative with his investigation and didn't obstruct it in any way, which really stands in contrast to how former president trump handled it and finally, made clear today that there was absolutely no interference in mr. hur's ability to conduct his investigation from the attorney general or the department of him saying that they weren't the charges weren't warranted or that he couldn't prove charges well, if chart if you can't prove the

charges, then the charges aren't warranted. i mean, they're essentially one end the same. and there were a number of elements of the offense that he didn't have sufficient evidence for them in today, anyone watching got a real lesson in criminal law. in one offense in particular, which is the willful retention of national defense information, which require showing that a problem person possessed what counts as national defense information, and that they possessed it knowingly and they failed to return it, and that they did so willfully, which in this context means that they did so knowing they were doing it contrary to law. and with respect to each element, there were problems as to the different tranches of documents that mr. hur looked at, but particularly on the willfulness prong and he kept coming back to this. he said there just wasn't sufficient evidence for to convict beyond a reasonable doubt for a jury to fund it, and a reasonable doubt that mr. that president biden knew he was acting contrary to law, and there was lots of things in the report that supported that determination that there was insufficient evidence on the willfulness. >> i want to play this contentious exchange are part

of it between congressman schiff and mr. hur minus suit of your report with his comments about his specific recollection as to documents or a set of documents. but you chose a general pejorative referenced the president. you understood when you made that decision, didn't you, mr. hur, that you would ignite a political firestorm with that language, didn't you? >> congressman politics played no part whatsoever in my investigative steps. you understood nevertheless mr. you cannot tell me you're so naive as to thank your words would not have created a political firestorm >> la, i'm wonder, what do you think about that? because schiff is saying is you could have been very specific and saying he did not remember the year, you remember the day in the month, but not the not the year instead, he made a broader statement is according to schiff, i agree with adam schiff that the language used by robert hur was over the top and arguably unnecessary. i disagree with ad who shifts

indignation over this because when you really boil it down, joe biden, in a sense, got lucky here by all the focus on robert hur's assessment of joe biden's mental state, his age, really at bottom, it's what one person believes about joe biden. but what's been missed in all this, what adam schiff was not indignant about was that joe biden misled the american people. i mean, let's not lose the headline here. joe biden, some of those documents he genuinely there's no proof. he knew he had, but he absolutely knew he had at least some of those documents, the documents related to afghanistan. he's on tape in 2017. he knew he hadn't he did not turn them over. he disclosed at least their contents, if not the actual paper documents, to his bio i prefer because he had a specific agenda. he wanted to be the hero in the historical retelling of the afghanistan story. and obama to be the haeil in that story. and that has been missed because there's so much focus on the assessment of his memory in his age. that's really damaging. i

agree with jessica when it comes to whether this case should have been charged or not, i think it's important to understand when you're a prosecutor, there's some cases that have to be charged. i think donald trump's mar-a-lago case had to be charged. then there's some cases that you can't charge. there's a missing element. you just don't have the proof, but then there's a broad discretionary zone and i think this one fell and that discretionary zone. and so to robert hur because he said i do believe a reasonable juror could have convicted. that doesn't mean you have to charge, but it means it could've and a different prosecutor could have come to a different result. so biden got lucky in that sense here. >> do you think van dam doing this lab memory effect on the oxygen. it may or may not, but you have lots of we're going back through this stuff. i mean, eric swalwell did it a good job of pointing out there's some stuff in the transcript that would have actually been good for biden politically, but it might been bad for him legally. so for instance, swalwell says quote her saying, you have photographic memory and recall well, that's great for biden politically. but if you've got photographic memory, recall is

bathroom legally goes down. you're getting get charged. and so if you look at that, this is a human process. a lot of stuff in here. i'm i think the democrats do a better job of pulling out some of the stuff in the transcript, not the report. the report makes biden look like during the elderly idiot, but there's stuff in the transcript, the make biden look great, and that could have a positive >> i don't think anybody is going to care come this fall. this was not having been there a jim comey moment number one, or jim comey moment number to trust me. it also having been through this was not at benghazi hearing moment where hilary sat there for 11 hours. it was powerful. she was fantastic nobody cared when they went to vote in november. i genuinely believe most of these things, what we know in politics is the question is do these things go to what you underlying already believe about a candidate? if you already think that someone is prone to keeping secrets, yeah. you would think that hillary clinton and her emails, that

there were something shady there. i think what donald trump, he's trying to, and the republicans muddy the waters. generally, people think joe biden's a decent guy. they may not like his policies. they don't think he's corrupt, they don't think he's a bad guy. once to expel palestinians from this country or migrants at the same time, the problem that donald trump has is that this is not the that's not the only case. we're going to hear as we just heard last night, we learned new evidence about the way he treated documents we're going to hear over the course of this it's coming months, more information about the weight that is going to deepen what people already believe about him. that's what democrats are going to focus on exploiting. >> but can i just say, i think this was partisan hackery on both sides of the aisle at its absolute worst, the only person who i think covered himself in some glory was robert hur. i'm sorry democrats have been saying we need to stand up for it. institutions. we need to stand up for our institutions. you cannot just trust the department of justice when it

indict donald trump, you have to have a level of you're going to let the process play out. i do not live this white house trying to demean her putting out testimony against him, trying to criticize minute, they should just set step back and let the process play out. let the congressional investigators ask the question but it undermines this sort of argument, especially at a time when republicans have gone far too far and trying to undermine the department of justice, house republicans want to cut some of the funding to it, which frankly amounts to be funding the police, which is absurd. but i don't think i think democrats are playing a dangerous game to basically do the same thing. republicans it's a political rorschach test would happen today, right? >> you're going to she and her testimony, what you want to see. i think elie points out a great point that's not being made by republicans, that they should have made more. fortunately, today, there, they're going down these rabbit holes and how much money made. and i think what elie i mean thank you. elie the house democrats essentially practice what they should thank you because that point gets overlooked and it shouldn't be, but it's it's white noise to most americans right? there

just. not delay here, right and what it does is when they think about documents and trump documents, biden documents, pence documents. they all did it there as a mistake in your care to your point about shiny, nice joe biden alley's narrative undercuts that, right, because it now paints him as somebody who knew he had classified documents on the right. i'm just and that's what it does. it sell his reputation. >> i don't think in a way that is going to have a meaningful impact. and the election, particularly when you have decent percentages of republican primary voters who made a point to come out and vote i am not voting for donald trump >> then there's equally just as big number, just as big a number of democratic voters as we see coming out saying, i'm not voting i'm an undecided undeclared you in these early states, not vote for biden. so he continued, had more of our special coverage of this big night. president biden clinton, democratic nomination but the victory in mississippi, former president trump's just one victory away from doing the same when polls close to

washington state, about two hours. now, that plus more of today's testimony by special counsel robert hur and reaction from someone who worked with special counsel, her at the doj, former us deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein. we'll be right now >> this source with kaitlan collins. next >> so would you get to nashville hot tenders and three mandarin orange tenders >> what about you? three classic tenders? >> for big button flash for of a kind. i'll win >> he said always a competition, i am the shrimp, but okay. >> yeah, we got and orders coming. >> garden and business is never easy. the star in a eight months pregnant, that's a different story. >> i couldn't slow down. >> we >> were starting a business from the ground people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs. they chased a car, made it easy when you go for something big like this, your kids it and they believe they can do the same >> arena unlimited 1.5% cashback on every with the

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>> just like that, go to ship station.com slash, try and get two months free there is no media personality. >> businesswoman >> celebrity chef leichhardt >> the many lives martha stewart now streaming on max welcome to a >> decisive primary night edition of the source. i'm kaitlan collins here in washington along with anderson cooper in new york. >> okay. and kaitlyn, the primary dominates this hour with president biden clinching the nomination just a short time ago, and the former president expect to do the same just about two hours from now when results start coming in from washington state >> of course, the other big story anderson then here in washington is the reaction to former special counsel robert hur and his testimony before the house judiciary committee today, taking fire really from both sides of the aisle as he explained his decision not to prosecute president biden over his handling of classified documents while he was out of

office >> first, this pivotal primary night for that, let's get straight to cnn's david chalian. so where does trump stand in the delegate count? and when do we expect them to secure the nomination? >> he's so close. anderson he needs 1,215 delegates. you see there in the upper right-hand corner to win the nomination, donald trump is currently at 1,184 delegates. this is after he won delegates in georgia, in mississippi already this evening, it puts him 31 delhi it gets away from the nomination. take a look. if you look at it by percentage anderson, donald trump has won 92% of the delegates awarded so far in this republican contest, you see nikki haley, there has only 17 point 1%. it's sort of begs the question whether this nomination was winnable for anybody not named donald trump all this time and take a look at what donald trump needs in order to win the nomination, he only needs two of the remaining

available delegates, and we're only on the second tuesday in march. he's going to cross that threshold. most likely later tonight when washington state reports, it's votes after the 11:00 p.m. eastern hour, anderson, president biden cross the threshold to what he needed earlier tonight. word is that delegate total stand for him? >> yeah. he's now over that 1,968 needed to win the democratic nomination. he's currently at 2011 delegates. he also won a slew of delegates out of georgia and mississippi so far this evening, and he's going to keep adding to that total tonight. >> he >> overwhelmingly just trounced any nominal competition that he is had in this race. so given all the talk about his potential weaknesses as a general election candidate, it never really materialized inside an actual contested battle for the democratic nomination, anderson, david chalian, thanks. gayla and joining me now is the national co-chair for the biden-harris campaign and a former mayor of new orleans, mitch landrieu. mitch, it's been about 1,225

days since the last biden trump election. i'm not sure people are looking forward to the sequel, but now that president biden is the presumptive democratic nominee, what is going to be be his priority in the coming days >> well, i think that what you saw today was really a great victory. you mean this is the nomination that's been clenched this early in two decades, the president had a great day today. the hur report basically today case closed, not guilty. time to move on. but don't forget that donald trump still has 91 criminal indictments pending against him. so this election has always, it was going to be in it's going to be in the future a choice between two very different people in two very different futures for america, you've got a guy that wakes up, joe biden every day fighting for the people of america, trying to include people trying to think about the future donald trump's thinking about the past. he's thinking about revenge and retribution. and i think there's going to be a very clear choice for people going forward. >> you mentioned that her testimony today, i mean, there

were points though where you looked at the transcript versus what you saw on the report. but then as congresswoman pramila jayapal was questioning him, he interrupted her to say that he had not exonerated president biden. what did you make of that moment >> well, first of all, that is legally incorrect when a prosecutor is trying to gather evidence, they either have the evidence saying bring a case or they don't. if you don't have evidence to bring a case, the person is deemed not guilty. that's the way that our law works, and that is essentially what report said. putting aside whatever the special counsel's hur's opinions are about the president and any other way. and for people that are interested in whether the president, it's up to the job. i just refer you to the state of the union that he gave the other night. i mean, the president's ripped up and ready to go and is on the job and making things happen the real part of this though, is that his age is a concern for voters. and so what is the pant plan for the campaign to address that over the next eight months for those who are

concerned about it, even democrats well, let me say this. i think that is clear that you have a 77 year-old and an 81 year-old who are gonna be running against each other. so age is not going to be the determining factor, not all their ages, but the age of their ideas is. and joe biden is thinking about the future donald trump's thinking about the past, there was a clear distinction between these two guys. and i think donald trump is going to be on trial how will the american people to, as he is in six separate courtrooms in america right now, which is just amazing, even to contemplate. but president biden shows up every day. he's bringing the receipts. i don't need to go over all the successes that he's had. the distinctions between these two guys as, as wide as the golf. just yesterday, president trump said unbelievably that he's going to cut entitlements. joe biden said, i'm going to protect them. donald trump wants to take away health care. joe biden is going to protect them. donald trump is eviscerating women's rights in america. joe biden is going to protect them. we're going to build an economy from the bottom-up in the middle out donald trump's going to do it from the top down. that's never worked

before. and so we're here for the battle. we're ready to go and the president is on track >> the washington post is reporting tonight that rfk junior has selected his running mate and among the new york times and washington post reporting, the names that are out there are jets even sure there's one robin, your name wasn't on there weirdly, but honestly no. >> thank god >> to tell you you want to list. >> but but can i ask you what is your plan to deal with rfk junior because this could come down to the margins. you know, how much the margins matter to joe biden in 2020? >> listen every vote, every vote counts in these elections, and all of the experts on the panel with, you know, about that, you can't tell whether he's going to hurt us or hurt trump more. but that list is just i don't even know what to say about that. i don't want to dignify it really whether response joe biden is going to get up every day. he's going to try to earn everybody's votes. he's going to bring the receipts of creating 15 billion jobs having the lowest unemployment rate in the last

50 years, wages have gone up, as you see, inflation continues to go down and we're going to battle to protect people's rights and freedoms in america. that's what this race is about. and the choice is going to be between donald trump and it's got and it'd be between joe biden of future that includes everybody or future or past that excludes everybody and we just got to have to take the battle to them and win in the battle place of ideas i mean it is a real question though, of who could it hurt or help more donald trump or joe biden. i mean, what is the level of concern inside the campaign about him >> well, first of all, again, like i said, every vote is of concern. there's really no way to tell third-party candidates have not fared very well, but they have an impact on racist. but we'll let all the genius has tried to figure out what the heck is going to matter, but all we know is we've got to go out there and earn everybody's vote. continue to talk to them about the future of the country as president biden sees it, you have a guy that's planned, pity, pity, pity plaque with dictators. he had viktor orban at mar-a-lago. this week. and now john kelly in a book by want to your

colleagues, is talking about how much he reveres hitler. i mean, you know, the choice is a pretty clear about what direction we should be gone into this country. >> mitch landrieu, if you come out, is that running mate? i'm going to call you. thanks so much for joining us tonight. >> up fleet, something like god, thank you. >> anderson, back to you again over on the republican side of the foreign president i'm waiting for polls to close the washington state, which is expected to put them over the top cnn's kristen holmes has been talking to her sources in trump world joins us now is what are you learning about the strategy for this campaign? moving? forward >> well, anderson, look, leaving, acting as though donald trump is the nominee now for several weeks, a lot of this is trying to talk about how they're going to build out their strategy xi and their ground game in those critical battleground states were talking about georgia, michigan, arizona, and nevada. but the other part of this is really learning how to navigate with these legal issues. and part of that the trial that's starting at the end of this month. i'm talking to sources who say donald trump wants to attend every day of that trial, even the days that aren't mandatory. so even at the beginning of the trial when it's jury selection, it just it

has to be lawyers. donald trump is saying he wants to attend, so they're looking into plans for that and also how he's going to actually compete in a general election in campaign. so right now they are talking about wednesday and saturday being the days that they actually have events because those are the days that they aren't in court now, donald trump, he has said that he would go to court during the day and in the evening, you would campaign what i'm talking to these sources, they acknowledged that that could be very difficult. they just don't know how they're going to get him in and out of the city where it's close enough what kind of rally or event you would hold. so right now, it's just figuring out how to navigate these several weeks of trial in which donald trump is going to be in court. and of course, as we have seen in the past he is expected to use those cameras to his advantage. but remember, in this new york trial, this hush money case, this is not the same court as a civil fraud trial. were there are cameras it was everywhere that you can go out to. we saw him trying to navigate this when he was in court just recently having to walk all the way out to this pool camera where he essentially was shouting just not quite as

easy. so they're trying to work around how they're going to use those that courtroom as a campaign stop, but also how to actually work on the campaign because they know that this is going to be a very close election. any tight rematch with joe biden? >> kristen holmes, thanks so much. kaitlan back to you. >> anderson. we are back here with the panel and also have david chalian with us along with andrew your mckay, paula reid, tia mitchell, kate bedingfield, and doug heye. doug, i mean, listening to kristen lay out what this is about to look like for the next eight months is kind of scary. but if you're a republican operative, how much scarier is it >> i think it's very scary for republicans for a few reasons. one is we're seeing in georgia, donald trump is yes. he's winning overwhelmingly, but he's lost 61,000 georgia republicans right now. he lost the state by less than 12,000 votes. that has to be very concerning. the other thing i think should concern republicans is in the state of colorado. ken buck is announced his retirement is imminent retirement soon. there are a whole lot of congressional retirements skewing republican

we're gonna have a lot of open seats defend those are hard things to do. >> it's also going to hurt that majority that republicans are already dealing with, already slim, but i just wonder because brian kemp today, this is not a surprise. he had told basically everyone that he was going to do this, but he did go and cast his vote for donald trump. and i wonder as someone who is deeply reported bid on their politics, what you make of that, given that is something that we could see from other republicans who say, yeah, i'm not a huge fan of donald trump's, but i also really don't like joe biden, so i'm going to pick the republican on this ticket. >> yeah, we've heard that time and time again. even nikki haley has indicated that if trump is the nominees he's going to support him. she definitely would not support biden under any circumstances. so what we hear from a lot of republicans, even those who are critical of former president trump, is that when it comes down to a matchup, a rematch, they still think trump is better for the country than biden. they think biden is awful. they think his tenure has been awful. they think that

they'd rather deal with another four years of trump, then deal with four more years of biden and we're seeing that kind of writ large. i mean, i think it's also just like a political calculation. the republicans who stood up to trump said never trump, no way, not anywhere are in a political no-man's-land. so i think in a way that it's understandable that those who still want to be relevant to the party, at some point believe they have to fall in line once it's clear that trump is their nominee. yeah. i mean, david chalian, we're seeing that play out in georgia, right? now. i mean, can you just explain what we're what's happening with these numbers because nikki haley is there about 14%. obviously, she is no longer in this race, but what do you make of what is happening there given that margin that doug was talking about, but her name on the ballot still allows this protests vote is non-trump vote inside the context of republican primary. i mean, one of the great mathematical equations to be done this election season will be okay,

well, how many of those folks just put on the republican jersey and stay with the republican nominee. and how many are actually potential biden voters in the fall. but largely i think when you you look at these two unpopular nominees that come into focus tonight the negative partisanship is going to drive so much of this because politics is always not an either or but a both end. and so these candidates are going to have to really gin up enthusiasm in their base and they're going to do that with the negative partisanship that exists. in society and playing into the polarization a bit and then they've got to be able to add to that with some folks in the middle and in the middle, both of these candidates are suffering and to david's point we've just had a week of democrats saying joe biden is back, you stronger than ever. there's no question about his age and that this is a game changer is what congressman raskin consider earlier. the game hasn't changed. if you look at the polling, biden's numbers haven't moved here to a very good night, but there's been no follow through on that and that's why this race remains the movable object

against the resistible force. and voters are saying, we don't want to see this movie at all. >> i think that the partisanship, the partisan divide is also the reason the races is sort of effectively stagnant until well, it comes into focus. and so both trump and biden clinching the nomination tonight. that is a good thing for the biden campaign. the the sooner they can turn people's attention to the contrast mean, one of the issues we haven't really talked a lot about tonight is abortion, which we have seen time and again, is motivating both democrats. you talk about this base issue. it is absolutely an issue do that is motivating democratic base voters, the coalition of voters biden needs to get energized and come out. but we also saw in 2020 2.20, it's motivating independent voters, suburban voters who are also turned off, but who also the voters were most turned off by donald trump's rhetoric. so that combination is really good dynamic for the biden campaign they're going to have to try to drive a lot of republicans down ballot, who say a lot of crazy things. mark robinson and north carolina gubernatorial candidate kari lake, who we all know, they cause problems up and down the ballot. they cause

trump problems, and they cause their other candidates problems as well. >> the one thing though that mitch landrieu mentioned there, they're counting on as well as trump's criminal trials. you mentioned multiple of them, but paula reid mean as we've been reporting, we're not sure that any of them are going to happen beyond the case that is slated to start in new york later this month, the hush money case which is seen as the da's office says, this is still legally perilous for him, but but is not seen as bad potentially as the jack smith cases. yeah, absolutely. if he had to pick one case let's to go before the election. this would be the case that he would pick no one wants to be criminally charged in the middle of a campaign season or ever. but this particular case of the nature of these allegations, people refer to it as the hush-money case. the district attorney's office is framing it as the 2016 election interference case, arguing that the hush money that was paid to stormy daniels was done so in an effort to influence the election, lot of folks in trump-world don't believe that is something that is really going to influence voters, even if there is a conviction. but

he's going to have to be in a courtroom monday, tuesday, thursday, and friday. it'll be wednesday is off. look, i've seen we've seen in courtrooms across america, the campaign is very portable. he will likely turn these into campaign stops, even though he won't be able to travel. so logistically, it's complicated, but if he had to pick one trial, this is it. and it is unclear if they can get a conviction here and maybe melania trump's least favorite trial >> notice. we have not seen her out on the camp paint gel at all this season, but andrew mccabe, i think we've got a taste of what that could look like if these trials were happening, they would not be on camera, but there would be reporters in court. we would have the quotes. we know these witnesses who would be on the witness stand and one of them we talked to him last night in the classified documents case. he was previously only known is trump employee number five if he's now known as brian butler, he worked at mar-a-lago for a long time and we talked about the pressure that he faced to stay inside the trump fold. this is what he told us i mean i think the american people have the right to know

the facts that this is not a witch hunt. i mean, he can go on and tv and say this, that's one of the reasons for doing this. and quote, the pra says this and that it's all bogus but people believe him >> you think it's a fair investigation? >> absolutely. >> how much of a difference do you think it would make if people could hear from the brian butler is the other witnesses every day leading up to the election. >> well, we're going to find out because in a number of filings over the last week or so, the special counsel team has turned over to the defense and in discovery the names, the identities of witnesses, their actual testimony from the grand jury so they are fighting right now in court, as we know to keep that information under ceo and not share it with the public, but we'll see how that motion turns out. in either case, we're likely to see more and more witnesses identified maybe some coming forward

voluntarily, like mr. butler did yesterday, and that will initiate a process for them personally, there's little to subject them to unbelievable scrutiny from the defense team. donald trump's lawyers will go after each and every one of these people to uncover every stone that might have a negative factor back to underneath it in an effort to prepare for their ability to cross-examine these folks in the trial. and that is going to get very tough for them. >> he talked about the moment where you kind of exhaled when the special counsel's team said, by the way, all of your testimony has now been turned over. it's right to trump's lawyers, age mccabe. thank you for that. everybody standby up. next. we are following today's other massive story is the former special counsel, robert hur, and the other classified documents given its case, told the house judiciary committee why he neither indicted nor exonerated president biden over his handling of classified documents. we're going to speak to former trump deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein for his take on the testimony and the politics surrounding it and how it compares this own experience

handling politically hot legal topics, many of them later on tonight, new reporting from cnn's david culver on what is happening in haiti. the prime minister resigning a multinational security purity force put on hold. an armed gangs now in control of the capitol his report ahead here on the source tonight news night with abby tonight at ten eastern on cnn >> you are always so dedicated we worked hard to build up the shop save for college and our retirement but we got there thanks to our advisor and vanguard. now i see all that hard work was for it was always for you. >> seeing >> you carry on our legacy. i'm >> so proud at vanguard, you're more than just an inventor mr. urine, owner, setting up the future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership >> if you're living with hiv, imagine being good to go

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that the wing coming apart >> my dad died doing what he is space shuttle columbia the final flight and mirror sunday, april 7, that nice cnn >> back to our breaking news tonight as president biden has now clinched the democratic party's nomination with a win in the georgia primary. this comes after we saw some fireworks on the hill today is house lawmakers both democrats and republicans got their first crack at questioning the special counsel who declined to charge president biden, despite robert hur's saying that he did determined biden had willfully retained classified information. both sides arguing that politics were at play in hur's report. and one name in particular kept coming up and you later join the trump justice >> department as the principal associate deputy attorney general, working as the right-hand man for another

known federalist society member, rod rosenstein isn't that correct? >> i served as mr. rosenstein's principal deputy bill barr didn't name bob muller as a special counsel while molar was named by rod rosenstein. that's that's a huge difference. in how this whole thing works. >> rod rosenstein was the deputy attorney general in the trump administration and oversaw the muller investigation and his appointment. he happens to be sitting next to me right now. great to have you here as you were named, dropped several times during that testimony. obviously, robert hur also was your deputy when you were at the justice let's just department with him testifying today. and as you were able to read the transcript of his interview with president biden, do you think it was reflected fairly in his report >> you know, kaitlan rob had difficult job to do here to make a determination about whether criminal charges were warranted, and that required him first to determine what are the facts? and some of the facts were ambiguous as to how often the case in these sorts of investigations you're not

sure what was somebody's intent, what was their state of mind and so that's what lead rob to produce such a lengthy report with so many details that reflected the factual findings and then he had to exercise judgment about whether those facts gave rise to sufficient evidence that would warrant a criminal prosecution. >> but do you think that what you saw in the transcript made the report look fair the way that he had constructed it, knowing it was going to become public. >> okay. well, i've read the whole report, which is 350 some pages i didn't read all the transcripts, so i can't answer that fully, but i think he fairly summarized what was relevant to the investigation. yes. >> you said that you agreed with his decision overall on the report here once it was initially issued, not to bring charges against president biden when it comes to the age part specifically, there was this argument from republicans or excuse me, from democrats, pretty overtly, that partisan politics drove his report. what, what do you make of that? knowing robert hur. >> well, that's ridiculous.

kaitlan, but what you saw today was a prosecutor up against 40 politicians and they have different functions. and i think that really played out very dramatically today. rob hur's job, like everybody in the department of justice, and he's one of the best one of the best people invest prosecutors i've worked with in my 30 years, the department of justice, both democrats and republicans. he plays it straight here are the facts. here's my analysis. >> and what >> does it mean in terms of the legal significance is the is the suspect culpable or not of committing a crime the politicians are interested in the political significance of those findings, but that wasn't an issue for rob. that wasn't his agenda. that wasn't his goal and so he produced a report that reflected the relevant legal findings and simply ignore the political context. >> republicans now want the audio recordings of those interviews that he did with multiple witnesses, including with president biden himself. if you were at the doj today, would you support releasing that? >> i would say yes, kaitlan, i'm having already reduced already produced the transcript

and the substance of it as all out there. and so i don't see any reason to withhold the audio recordings given that the transcript is already public. >> one thing that it was strongly contrasted with today was, was donald trump, your former bosses classified documents, indictment republicans saying that it was unfair that trump was charged if biden wasn't democrats saying there's a big difference in what happened here. >> we >> spoke with one of the witnesses in the trump case last night. this is what he told me. >> on that day. >> as you're loading helping load these boxes, unwittingly into the plane and handing them to the pilots trump is back at mar-lago and did you know that his attorneys were there that day >> it's it's funny because i remember seeing this taller guy think, flick back silver hair. i think it was who i now know to be evan corcoran and i saw a bunch of other people in the living room. >> i had no clue. i'm just seeing all these people and it was evan corcoran, trump's attorney and members of the fbi, jay bratt, which i come to

realize now, at the same time, he's going in there. the boxes are going from somewhere into a vehicle, which are eventually going to the plane which i load with walt how powerful of a witness do you think he'd be if this goes to trial? >> okay. then i'm not in position to comment on the witnesses in the trump case i think like any every case it's going to depend upon all the witnesses and not just the prosecution's witnesses, but also the defense witnesses in the theory of the defendant lays out so i don't think you can comment on how you think the case is going to come out. just based upon one particular witness, the last time that you were on cnn, the immunity case had not yet gone to the supreme court. it is now before the supreme court. they're going to hear arguments on it. >> do you believe the >> president's should have full immunity from any prosecution while they're in office. >> we know kaitlan. my my history i've worked on investigations of president, so i worked with whitewater investigation. i was responsible for the russia special counsel investigation

and the issue that those investigations raise is is it appropriate, number one, to investigate conduct that involves the president? and then if the evidence word approve, the president committed a crime. could you prosecute the president either while in office or after the president leaves office obviously, i believe that those investigations were appropriate, that it was appropriate to conduct that investigation. the question raised in this case in part is whether or not the conduct at issue in the indictment was within the scope but the president's official responsibilities, if it was, then there's an argument for immunity. if it wasn't if it exceeded the legitimate scope of presidential duties, then i think that there's no argument for immunity there. >> and do you think that what he's alleged to have done is in the scope of presidential duties i don't want to comment kaitlan on the issue before the supreme court. i think got a wait and see what they have to say. so >> you don't want to say whether or not you believe that he has immunity in that election interference case? >> well, i will say that the dc circuit opinion was unanimous opinion and was quite an

effective summary of the law. then the probability but he has supreme court will uphold that, but it's up to the five justices. the supreme court. >> yeah. i've got to ask you one more thing. i know you're not overtly political. you stick to the facts and the law, but but you did work for donald trump and the justice department. and there are questions about what that would look like in a second trump term and he may very well be the next president. he posted another day that one of his first actions he took office and i'm quoting him now would be to free the january 6 hostages being wrongfully imprisoned. i don't have to tell you there have been more than 950 convictions, but i mean, do you believe that would be appropriate? >> so kate and i worked for president trump. i also worked for president obama and for president bush. >> you are us attorney under pressure and my approach, like robs, he worked in all three administrations as well, was was to focus on the facts and the law. i don't think anybody who commits a crime involving assault on a police officer should go free. so that's my opinion about that. >> rod rosenstein, former deputy attorney general, good to have you on here tonight. thank you. glad to be here. >> thanks much for joining us,

anderson, back to you, kaitlan. >> thank back with our legal and political team, lem, your reaction to a rosenstein. >> so i am similarly impressed with robert hur. i don't know robert hur, rod rosenstein work closely with him. i never have but let's think about what robert hur just accomplished. he pulled off a year-long investigation of the sitting president. he talked to dozens, over 100 witnesses. he put together a 388 page report and he just sat there while 44 political members of congress tried to pick them apart and they didn't find a single factual error or contradiction in his report. he wasn't flustered at all. he stood by his report. he came across to me just as an observer, as completely non-political. he wasn't out there to harm trump are hurt trump or to harm biden or to help biden. and i think he deserves credit for that. it's extraordinarily difficult thing think about the way that robert muller came through his report, right? not as cleanly as this. think about the way john durham came through his report. i think very political,

nowhere near as cleanly as this so wrong. >> you don't by adam schiff's argument that the language he used to describe the president's cognitive abilities was unnecessary. >> i agree that that particular language was unnecessary, but i absolutely disagree with adam schiff when adam schiff tried to impute partisan motives on him, adam schiff was just making ad hominem attacks on robert hur that robert hur rejoined, >> why do you think he did it that way? >> because prosecutors approach their jobs differently. sometimes prosecutors, right. more or less, people could write a 100 page report, a 20 page or sometimes they include more or less detail and looking at that, if i was his supervisor, i would've said we don't need this level of granularity. this is an unnecessary detail, but i don't take that to me and he's got horrible political motives. i disagree with adam can on that. jessica. >> i'm just going to say the regulations that govern special counsel is required fire them as her mentioned today, to explain in a report that's submitted to the attorney general the reasons for their declination decisions or prosecution decisions here

declination. so he was required to submit a report that explain its decisions. but the regulations don't specify what level of detail he has to provide his reasons. and he really in my opinion, should have exercised better discretion and judgment about how he characterized president biden in the report, i agree with elliot was not. firstly, it wasn't necessary to his determination that no charges were warranted for him to characterize the president as he did. and longstanding doj norms provide that you really shouldn't impugn somebody's reputation aware of that and he did it anyway. is that political >> well, that's certainly the implication that the democrats in congress were suggesting. i can't get inside his head. i don't know what his motivations were. i just think it was a serious error of judgment at a minimum. >> isn't that what am i missing something perhaps here, but wasn't that one of the main reasons? for the declination was that if he did go to trial, this is how he would be observed by the jurors. therefore, i am not going to proceed with this this prosecution. >> her said that and he said i

had to explain my work right. >> to show my >> when you actually read his report more carefully, i thought it actually wasn't critical to his determination. and so again, it goes to question of judgment about whether you include everything that was that was that you noted. he says it was integral to him. if he's acting in good faith, that's why he included it, but i think he actually had the discretion to make a judgment about what he included in this report? no way that it was going to be made public. >> and let me just say, if robert hur had an agenda and he just wanted to hurt donald trump, he could have written this report differently. he could have written this report to say, i believe that a prosecutor could walk out of a grand jury with an indictment of joe biden however, i'm not confident that a jury would unanimously convict him. that would have been way more damaging. he didn't go there though. >> well, by the way, donald trump very well may be president again in one of his biggest regrets of his previous term from was that he did not choose to go after hillary clinton over the emails there is a reality in this sounds crazy to say, but it's donald trump that he could direct the department of justice to reopen this, where he to become president again. so i wouldn't

even argue that this is completely out of the woods. this is something that he has talked about, how he's going to use the department of justice. and a second term, don't think it gets nearly enough attention then well, i mean, i think that, two things can be true. on the one hand he could have been more careful, but he's not necessarily corrupt. and i think that's what schiff was doing was saying because you weren't careful, you are there for corrupt. >> and i think >> i agree with you from earlier. that's dangerous we, do want, especially on democratic parties like now, we've got to defend all these institutions. we don't want to, i think castles kind of aspersions without real evidence and i didn't see the evidence. i just saw the accusation as well, so i thought he was saying you're corrupt. i think he was just i think the part of the goal of democrats was to ascribe political motives and to acknowledge that you are old enough and wise enough to know that when you write a document like this, you do have some discretion and then it will actually face some scrutiny and people will look at your words and they will dry judgment from

the words. i think he was more holding him accountable for don't tell me you didn't know what people were going to take from saying he's kindly old man >> and the fact that the transcripts were released, that didn't actually really seem to support the characterization. i thought sort of cast this in a new light. we don't seem even more unnecessary. >> we really was interesting think that, that you literally cells biden. yep, a photographic memory in the transcripts, but he doesn't put that in the report. so i think that but that was better for biden legally. >> listen, there's the audio recordings, right? clearly that we don't know because the byte, if it was completely exonerating the biden administration would have pushed those out this morning and everyone will be listened to him right now. so there's something those audio recordings that may go to what hur wrote and why he wrote it, that there may be pauses, there may be nuances that you can't hear on a cold record, cold transcript that were not so you can bet the house republican conference is going to call for those audio rather than they already have border and funding

ukraine so do you think there'll be more hearings with the audio recordings are i think that we continue to ask for it right there >> push for it and they can use it as a talking point. it becomes a talking point that says, where's the audio? why don't you released the audio? we've you know, we know that regard, but let's be clear. >> this hearing did not go how i think house republicans thought it was going to. i think that they thought this was going to be a partisan republican who was going to side with them and who is going to really go after biden's mental acuity and he didn't he was very nuanced. who's very careful. he didn't overstep and it wasn't the slam dunk. they thought that it was going to be it wasn't great for joe biden either, but that was not what the committee had set out. little brother >> another point on audio recordings that they didn't get really made a lot was that the the biographer, right? his when he his audio recordings of his conversation with joe biden after the special counsel was appointed. he pressed delete is audio recordings with joe biden, which is a little bit as a former prosecutors i think that is that's probably a no-go category. provided transcripts, of them are even the ones that

were deleted it and they were able to get back. but yes. however, you once it are charging, once you once you get a notice from prosecutor, there's something going on. you don't go through your email to start deleting files, right? for sure. everybody knows coming up on president biden clinching the nomination plus or reporting about how the former president plans to incorporate his trials into his campaign will talk to new york times maggie >> haberman about that and also we'll talk to a group of undecided voters in georgia. yes, some people are still undecided prison. biden won that state four years ago by less than 12,000 votes. >> that's >> backroom deals, cia secrets, affairs, >> bribery, corruption, prostitution there's so much more to the store in knighted states of scandal with jake tapper sunday at nine on cnn file >> 100% free with triple tax-free addition i think 37% of taxpayers qualify form 1040 and limited credits only see how a turbotax.com that's me

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>> king charles tomorrow on cnn closed captioning brought to you by mesobook.com. >> our firm has offered a free book about mesothelioma for over ten years. mesothelioma is really all we do. >> 80087 to 4901 continuing our breaking news coverage, former president trump is expected to clinch the republican nomination within the next few hours, there's a short time after president biden clinched his nomination tonight. that comes as our kristen holmes reported earlier, the former president is expecting to use his court appearances in the upcoming stormy daniels hush money trial is an opportunity to kill campaign. joined now by new york times senior political correspondent maggie haberman. it's interesting this idea of using the court appearances as a way to stay active on the campaign trail. >> both >> just from a practical standpoint, it makes sense, but there's also been effective for him thus far. >> it's been what he has done this entire time. he did it

through the primary cycle to great effect. now, i would argue that legally his performances in court during the e jean carroll trial and during the new york ag trial did not go paternally well for him in terms of the judgments that came down, but they certainly created a lot of noise and a sense of motion as he was in these primaries. and the final stages. and this is what that will be, especially because he's going to be in court for days a week. wednesdays will be a break. so the only days that he can really campaign on saturday and sunday. >> and yet he knows that so many cameras are going to be at the courthouse and there's not videotape inside the courtroom, so they'll need to occupy their time talking about stuff. so his appearances, their will get tremendous pickup. >> that's exactly right. and this is something that we had expected was going to happen and may still happen if there's a federal january 6 related trial where there won't be cameras in the courtroom there, as you say, won't be cameras in the courtroom for the bragg trial. and so trump will go out and he'll give his span and he'll say whatever he's going to say. he's going to hope that he's going to drown out whatever a witness testimony is and

whatever damaging evidence is offered in the case. >> is he trying to i mean, in terms of campaign strategy, to build his base, is he trump to just pick away some black voters from president biden, hispanic voters, whomever he can get. >> i don't think that's what he's doing in this upcoming court case. i don't think that's the target. i think the target is essentially survival to be honest, and i think his aides are hoping that he does not do himself damage because as we have seen in recent days, he is saying things that are not helping him. it's not like it's always a net plus, when he talks. but in general it is true that part of their math is they are trying to make a play for black voters. he's been very explicit about it. he also has been trafficking and all kinds of racial stereotypes as he does it. but he refers back to his record as president, even if he doesn't pick up those votes, even if the public polling showing him getting a much higher percentage of black voters is wrong. part of the strategy is just peeling it away from biden either. so people stay home or for an independent candidate. >> it is also just bizarre. you think about john kelly telling jim sciutto about the hitler

comments. and hitler did some good things according to john kelly, that's what the former president said. >> it didn't nobody seem to care. i mean in any other time, this would have been just unbelievable. >> there's an enormous vault for a couple of things i would say about that. there's been an enormous volume of information about things that donald trump said as president, things that he said in his past. we have talked about it here. we've written about it at the new york times times, that, that piece of information actually first appeared in a book by my colleague mike bender. and so at some of these things have been around so long that i actually think that the public has gotten almost numb to them. and i think that that is for people who don't like the former president. that is part of their challenge. if you look back at the reporting around the muller report and we wrote about this at the time there was so much reporting that went into this investigation. and what was happening with that investigation that the public sort of hurt a lot of it along the way. so by the time the actual report came out, there

wasn't a ton knew that the public was learning, and that seems to be the case here. i think the public has two and a lot of it out. they may not in the fall and i think that's what we're gonna what do you make a big firing, mass firings at the rnc under with lever trump, unsurprising. and i think it's really mostly under chris lacivita who has come in as you know, he's a top trump campaign official and he's the de facto chief of staff. now with the rnc, unsurprising because there's bloat there or in surprising because they have been telegraphing that this was it's coming for some time. i think there is not a lot of happiness around some of the celebrating that was going on by some folks on the trump campaign about it. and it's a strange message to cheer people getting fired. but especially when you were trying to win over more votes. but look, we will see if it makes a difference. we will see if they end up hiring some of these folks back. we will see what but the rnc ends up looking like, but it's not surprised to see this mass shakeup >> maggie haberman, thanks so much >> anderson, donald trump and president biden both winning georgia and their respective primaries tonight, it does state that is going expected to

be at least a critical state. again, this november in 2020, biden defeated trump there by fewer than 12 thousand votes. cnn's gary tuchman is in atlanta tonight with a group of undecided voters who could help swing this election. gary, how are they feeling about their two choices now that it's in clear view tonight okay. >> when will i will tell you is when it comes to presidential elections, it's hard to find undecided voters, but they can be found and we have found them here in atlanta, georgia. this is a very important swing state, georgia, six voters and since i've met you all and talk to you yesterday, and today, has anyone changed their mind? is anyone ready to vote for trump or biden for sure? hands are down. so let me start asking you first. we have here at the bani and catch up wife and husband. you're not ready to vote for either of these to know why don't you like joe biden for president? it's hardest job in the world. it's the hardest job in the world and we keep hearing stories about how he is so sharp u, so on point behind closed doors but i haven't seen it. i haven't seen it >> and ketchup, why don't you

like donald trump? >> well, i mean, i just don't they use a good human being and disah things that come out of his mouth, mutiny cringe every time and i'm not to mention all the indictments against him. >> so you're both independence might you not vote in the election november, unless they give us a compelling reason to change our mind >> scott urine, independent, you told me they'll you're kind of libertarian. you're fiscally conservative but socially you're progressive. do you like either of these two gentlemen for president >> could there be to worse options right you know, biden is we can all the wrong areas trump is a polarizing salesman, not a statesman >> we need better >> so might do not vote >> no. there >> are too many reasons to go and exercise my right to vote. so i will vote, we vote for i don't know right now, considering going third party, i think to who would that be? i think kennedy has a lot to rfk junior. >> okay. let me ask you, dana,

you are a democrat? but you were telling me that you wanted nikki haley? >> yes. i think over a trump, she just seemed to like she was for the people versus trump, who i feel like is after his own personal events and now that she's out, is there any chance your vote for either these two gentlemen currently now, i'm undecided >> so does that mean you won't vote the election >> november i may not. you may not vote good. delancey urine, independent. you also liked haley and you told me you voted for democrats and republicans in the past. what do you think of these candidates the president and the former president? >> well, i'm not a trump fan. i'll be honest, but i like biden. i think he's a good guy. i think he's too old right now. i think he's just his his time has passed and i also think both candidates are so polarizing that it's hard for our country to get behind anyone. >> so might you vote for joe biden? >> if there's not a good third-party candidate, yes. >> you're looking for third-party can who might that

be >> well, one person that i don't think wants to do it, but as governor kemp, because i see him or just governor? yes, because i see him as someone who stood up to trump and is still popular and well liked. >> okay. well doesn't look like he's running. so the final person we have here is lew and i should tell all our viewers that lew and i are friends. we went to eighth grade together and school when we were in high school, jimmy carter was being gerald ford. but i can take we've never talked about politics and all the first until the other day when i found out that you were undecided or you told me you know, you're not going to vote for biden but you don't like trump very much either, and you'd like nikki haley also. so what are you gonna do? i do i really like nikki haley and i'm so sorry. she she dropped out of the race. i thought she was sharp. i thought she really had all the elements of what i look for in a president. but might you vote for trump? probably will >> what about third party? >> if there was a great candidate that came in? yeah. but at this point, i don't know

if that's going to happen and um, yeah, i would probably vote for him because i think he can execute on the things that are important to me. >> i want to ask you all >> if this makes you sad as a patriot of this country, all love your country. that's one of the reasons i wanted to talk to all of you. i asked you, well, how much you love this country knew all love. it doesn't make you sad that you're not really dig in these republican and democratic candidates for president >> yeah, i know when we spoke, i was saying that since i've become of age to vote, this is the first time that i really don't know. this is the first time i feel motivated to just stay home. >> well, what i want to tell you, your vote is going to be sought because you're from georgia it'll be sought big time thank you all for joining us. kaitlan back to you. >> gary tuchman, a loved to hear those conversations you have with voters. thank you for bringing that to us. just ahead here tonight, we'll step away from the elections here for a moment. focus on the political and civil turmoil that is happening in haiti. what is

going to happen now that the prime minister has announced tilson step down, our david culver has the latest right after this news night with abby phillip. next on cnn brie, ready to swarm ready to stay. the defiant? power-packed all new hybrid electric dodge hornet rt. >> performance >> electrified >> it's a new day. one. we're our shared values propel us towards a more secure future. through august a partnership built upon cutting-edge american, australian, and british technologies will develop state next generations the will really build something stronger together. securing decades of peace and prosperity for america and our allies. we are going forward word and staying forward together

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standard closed captioning is brought to you by audio book network. tell your story, produce an audio book with us >> what to earn more profits and find a new audience for your published book, produce an audio book. we handle narration production, and digital distribution. >> color scan, the qr code. now >> want to spend a few minutes now on the breaking news out of haiti after its prime minister announced he would step down in favor of trends, transitional government, one of the gang leaders responsible for the unprecedented levels of violence ravaging the country now says that they will not accept a new transitional government. david culver joins us now from just across the border in the dominican republic. so what do we know about this new government when it might form? how quickly that may happen? >> a lot of eyes here on the timeline of all of this anderson and it's a transitional council, presidential council as it's been characterized by caricom. that's the region now block of which the us is a member state. and essentially it's been crafted to at the end of everything, stabilize the government enough to have

presidential elections. but it's gonna be made made up of seven different members and they're going to come from members of different political factions within haiti. and they're going to appoint in the interim prime minister and then hold hopefully get to that place of stability. but you pointed out the reaction already in haiti, we're hearing one gang leader who's very popular, known as barbecue, saying that he won't recognize anything comes from a foreign force that's echoed by a former coup leader defelipe, who is saying that this is not representative of the haitian people and there is frustration that we actually heard more than two weeks ago, when we were in haiti in port-au-prince that folks were saying they felt like they didn't have a voice. they'd come up to us and they'd say to the us to canada, to france. let us make the decisions here. so it still remains unclear, anderson, if this is really going to create that stability that it's so badly needed. on the other side of the border. >> and people are desperate for stability given all the violence we've been seeing, what is reaction. you've been monitoring from people in haiti

when we're with you a few days ago when we had heard about some of the folks that we were with a couple of weeks ago and the recent days, it's been a desk prince situation for that. i mean, it's been terrifying for folks who some of whom have had seen their homes torched by the gangs that are getting more and more control, seizing a lot more territory you've got people who maybe not are in gang territory, but are hunkering down there trying to stay safe and they're fearing that at any moment they'll have to flee from where they currently are. we in touch with police source who tells us they're really frustrated and they feel like they're the last ones holding the line right now and they point in particular to the kenyan police officers who were supposed to be deployed any day now, but now we're hearing that kenya has put that on hold well, why are officials positives? it's been because they're looking at this transitional council that is not yet in place. they're saying that ariel henry, the prime minister, is resigning. so they're saying, wait a minute, this is what we signed up. for originally. this is not

the agreement that we decided to put our police forces to support. >> and so they >> want to see, again, stability before they're comfortable putting their forces into haiti and that remains unclear when it's going to happen. meantime, you've got the pentagon anderson tonight. they're warning that this could be a possible mass migration situation. and you've got the world food program saying at the end of all of this, we've got to look at the humanitarian aspect, the hunger situation. people are desperate the supply lines are getting cut off. and you have, as they characterize it, 1 million people now who are one step away from famine, anderson, difficult or thanks very much. >> before we go tonight, we do have a heartbreaking update as we have now learned, that one of the last six american hostages thought to still be alive and being held in gaza was actually killed by hamas on october 7. and his body was taken into gaza that's according to the israeli military and an update that they provided today, he thai

qin a 19-year-old dual us israeli citizen, was serving in the idf on the gaza border that day. his parents have been working relentlessly to bring him home, to bring awareness for the other hostages and their families ever since tonight, they say that their hearts are broken with this update. here's what they told jake tapper just last week >> i actually haven't liam two days ago. two nights ago where i saw the vision of hesitant biden the lying to us and saying, well, your kidney tie, he's on a plane back home. i still hope that that might be able to happen >> ruby, his father was raised in new york and i should note a tie was the second of three sons. he was a former boy scout, not that long ago is to add, said he was also a fierce basketball player and fan. his 20th birthday would have been on february 2, and our hearts go out to his family and friends tonight. thank y