portrayed it as they can get 70% of the electorate out to vote. and that he can win with 70% of the vote. that's what they claimed happened in 2018. it's to create the perception that even if this was a fair election, he's got huge support that people love him. now he does have significant support and russia, but not 70, 70 interesting bryan todd reporting for as well. thank you very much, brian, for that report. finally, tonight, a mix of success and failure for the spacex starship rocket the spacecraft taking off from its sub basin, texas today, hitting orbit speeds and flying are there than any previous launches but after about an hour in-flight at los communications with ground control, forcing the company to declare it lost lots spacex and nasa eventually hope the vehicle could one day be used to carry astronauts to the moon and maybe even i'm wolf blitzer in this room. i'll see you tomorrow, 11:00 a.m. eastern for cnn newsroom until then. thanks very much for watching

the news continues next on seeing it >> tonight are 360 breaking news. the former president loses one bid to n1 trial, but learns he might get a month long delay in another without trial listening two weeks away from a michigan courtroom, we're breaking news. a father convicted of manslaughter for the murders. his son committed. and the latest from haiti and my conversation with shawn pen about what his relief organization core is facing on the ground there as gangs remaining toal much the capital. >> good evening. we begin tonight with the breaking news on the former president and happen just hours after he walked into the federal courtroom, the judge, he himself appointed aileen cannon sitting opposite hur. he watched as his attorneys argued the jack smith's classified documents case should be dismissed. the lawyers defended two of their nine motions to dismiss today, including the one arguing that the presidential records act allowed him to designate the

classified documents he took his personal even though his own words suggest he knew otherwise, listen as president, i couldn't eat less now i can't get out, but this is is interesting interesting indeed, prosecutors today read a transcript of that for judge cannon, who did not rule on the issue and related motion this evening. she did, however, reject another we have details now from cnn's kaitlan poland's who joins us from outside the federal courthouse in fort pierce, florida. so talk more about the motion that the judge dismissed >> will anderson. that was emotion where donald trump wanted judge aileen cannon to dismiss the case because his lawyers were trying to argue that the law around national defense secrets and the handling of classified records that that was too vague of a law. judge, aileen cannon. she didn't buy it. >> she made that clear in court. and then shortly after the hearing, she issued her order instead, i'm not going to dismiss the case on this argument that you made today.

she said that this could be something that could come up where trump may want to argue this to a jury or that they could discuss little bit closer to trial heading into that trial setting the parameters for how the trial will go, the presentation to the jury. but that's how that particular argument went. there was another argument today as well. it didn't go that great either for the former president judge aileen cannon was quite skeptical about arguments. his team was making that these presidential records were personal because trump said so because he wanted to take them from the white house and keep them at mar-a-lago after the presidency, judge cannon made pretty clear that she wasn't really on board with that argument and seemed to articulate herself in the same view as the federal government. the justice department in this saying that presidential records are presidential records not everything can be a personal record just because someone says which he hasn't ruled on that particularly yet.

>> what was the atmosphere like in the court >> when the courtroom, everyone is pretty comfortable in this case working together. this is now ten hours that judge cannon has spent with these lawyers. and donald trump in just the past two weeks doing arguments. and so trump is getting to the point where he's chatting with these lawyers excuse reacting to the arguments that are being made, even some of the members of jack smith's team and jack smith was in the courtroom today, they react to when people stand up and make different points before the judge. >> now the thing >> about judge cannon know is she's very hard to read and she doesn't often tip her hand. this is the one of the first hearings where we have seen her really side or at least indicate that she was going to side one way or another and she did follow that with an order, at least on one of these motions shortly after the hearing. >> and is it clear when she's going to died the trump team's other arguments for dismissal

>> no, judges can take however much time they need to make a decision, but the every time that there is a delay in judge cannon issuing an order on one of these motions. trump is making. that's the longer it goes before everyone can set the table for the trial and to see how that will shape up. and anderson, i should add this is two motions where trump is asking to dismiss the case by my count, there are seven more of these that could be argued from both he and his two co-defendants so there are so many things that are stacking up for judge aileen cannon still did you hear opinions she needs to write where we really need to watch and see exactly where she's going to go. she has done very little to get through the pile of paperwork on her desk in this docket to get this towards a trial. and of course, hasn't set the trial day yet. we're still waiting on that schedule. yeah. kayla thanks so much on his now it's former federal judge nancy gertner to former federal prosecutors bestselling author

jeffrey toobin, and jennifer rodgers and former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. jeff, how much of this is a setback for the former president? >> not much. >> i >> mean, there's, so, there's so many more issues coming and what he's really trying to do is delay the case. the headline for me he today is, you know what happened today? nothing much. >> i mean, there >> is just so much more that this judge has to deal with to get this case to trial. she's going at a very leisurely pace. she's taking hours and hours. are they going to have hearings for each of these other? possibly seven possible. >> she hasn't said yet, but at the rate, she's going and the way she's letting the lawyers talk on and on about some of these motions are just absurd. i mean, the idea that it's unconstitutional for jack smith to be supervising this case. it's completely justice department employee. but all of them have to be decided before a trial date takes place. and she hasn't set a trial date in this case, continues to be on a slow boat to nowhere. >> judge gertner, i mean, judge

cannon only denied one to the former president's motions to dismiss charges that typical that she would, decide only one will nothing about the way she's handling the case is typical so these are motions that could have been disposed of quickly. these emotions that are not raising issues that are extraordinary and they could have been disposed of it quickly. and what she's done is she's allowing lengthy hearings on motions that really could be he just taken care of. and if she does that with respect to the others, then we are talking about a delay. what is interesting about what she said though is that she's kicking all of this to the trial itself. and the trial we could well be a mess allowing trump to raise defenses that really no one else would be allowed to raise. and essentially scuttling trial if she ever gets to one. and that of course is an open question. >> entering this motion to dismiss the trump team argue today that the presidential records act essentially requires the case be thrown

out. i mean, what kind of a precedent would the judge be setting if she agree with. >> so that's the motion she didn't decide today there were two that they heard she heard the one attacking the espionage act 18 usc 7-9 d3, as being unconstitutional. she decided that in a two page ruling the second one they argued she hasn't given us a ruling on that one quite yet. and that's his presidential records act in which he basically says, i as president, waving a magic wand over these documents and turn them into personal papers. and therefore, it can't be charged for them. >> seems to run counter to what he said in that audio, which is there was a time i could have declassified them, but i didn't and he clearly acknowledged on that tape that he knew those things were at that time so classified. so there is that problem. the other problem is there's nothing in the presidential records act that says that it it gets in front of or eliminates the applicability of things like the peonage act and the fact that you cannot maintain or hold or withhold

national defense information are classified records when you don't have the authority to do so. and those are criminal offenses that have nothing to do with the presidential records act. so i don't think many people give that motion much legal credence. it's another one that probably should have been disposed without even a hearing, but here we are. >> let's play that audio of what the president said at when he was talking into that group in his room month or according >> as president, i couldn't eat less that. no, i can't get out, but this is is interesting how damning do you think that recording is for this case? >> well, if we ever do get to trial, i mean, that's obviously a key piece of evidence for the prosecutors there. i mean, they have to prove intent to knowledge and nothing better than a defendant's own words. >> there's still may not go to trial. >> it may not go to trial. i mean, she's been slow walking at the whole time, like judge gardner said, there's really no excuse for how long all of these things have been taking. it's frustrating for jack smith and his team because you can't really appeal that, right? you can't say to the 11th circuit, she's slow

walking this case, you should be deciding more quickly. that's on a basis for overturning anything are taking her off the case and yet if we get beyond the election and trump wins again, then of course, we'll just immediately shut it down and we'll never see trial but you know what's most remarkable about this hearing, just like the hearing two weeks ago in new york, it's the trump is there. he doesn't have to be there. there is no reason for him to be there, except that he wants to be there. this is the trump campaign. trump has decided and it may be a good decision that being a martyr, being someone who was the tact and court is good for his candidacy. and look, he's leading in the polls as far as i can tell. so maybe it's the right decision, but this is how he's campaigning by being a defendant in court in judge gertner, i mean, if he believes that the judge likes him is that an incentive to go to the court and be in front of her as often as possible. >> well, i think he's reminding her of his presence, but but i

mean, i think jeff is right. he doesn't he doesn't have to be there really, it's very interesting about the ways in which his defenses and these arguments are dovetailing with what he wants to say to the on the campaign. like he has a motion that this is selective enforcement, that his what, eight months retention of documents that he was told were classified is somehow the equivalent of biden's garage or pence's garage or hillary's? the emails. he that's the selective enforcement. you've gone after me when nobody else has. and these are essentially campaign themes. but as i said before really any other judge would have said denied and could have you've done denied without a hearing are done denied with the same two-page order that she did. so she's really spending way too much time on all of this, enabling him to make arguments that no one else would have made. >> jennifer, what do you make i

wasn't trying to interpret what the judge had about about the idea that trump could designate records as personal and take them to mar-a-lago. she she called it forceful what what does that mean? does >> that is i have no idea. is that mean? that's an aggressive idea or wow, that's a forceful thing you can do. >> i hesitate to try to interpret what this judge is saying. >> that's not a legal word that i've just not privy to because i'm not a lawyer. >> no. no, that is i mean, i mostly don't know what she means >> okay. more than a little bit of the time and i don't know what she means here. i don't know if anyone else says new ideas, but it's, it's not a legal term. yvd. >> do you think this argument, andrew, about selective prosecution is one we've seen how the hur report you can make the argued that sort of argues against selective prosecution i don't think the selective prosecution arguments going anywhere. it's an incredibly tough defense to mount under any circumstances. and here, if that's the comparison between the this case and the

investigation of joe biden's president biden's possession of classified documents after his term as vice president, if that's the comparison they want to make, i'd be very confident arguing that what if i was a member of jack smith's team? there are so many massive massive fundamental factual differences between those two investigations. it's not even quite selective prosecution is a defense that almost always fails because what the judges said hey, look, if you're guilty, you're guilty. we're not worried about what other defendants did. so the idea of selective prosecution, if the evidence shows that you're guilty, it's just always a loser. >> all right judge gertner, thanks for being with us. everyone else is going to stick around. we've got another trump trial to talk about before that, though, more breaking news, a guilty verdict in the trial my name, james crumbley on manslaughter charges for the mass shooting his son committed at a school in oxford, michigan. plus what aaron rodgers is now saying about cnn reporting. he privately shared false conspiracy theories about the mass murder at sandy hook

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month, the jury said the killer's mother, jennifer crumbley ball responsibility and convicted her on four counts of involuntary manslaughter. today, it was the father's turn. more from senior cazares guilty of involuntary manslaughter, guilty. >> james crumbley, the father of the oxford, michigan high school shooter convicted of four counts of involuntary manslaughter these four, where children. >> what happened that day >> is about the deaths of these four children and what james crumbley did and what he didn't do >> think about everything that james crumbley did not know he did not know. >> he had to protect others from his son >> crumbleys son was 15 years old when he opened fire in his school november 30, 2021 prosecutors say crumbley bought in the gun, didn't properly

secure it. and ignored warning signs about his son's mental health. >> james crumbley, heading willful disregard of a known danger cause and the cause the four students and aspirin high school during the trial, jurors watch video of the two of them practicing at a shooting range. the sound of gunfire ringing through the still courtroom jurors also saw journal entries from before the attack where his son appeared to be begging for help i want help, but my parents don't listen to me, so i can't get any help but the defense argued that james did not know about any of this >> you heard no testimony and you saw no evidence that james had any knowledge that his son was a danger to anyone? we've heard about the journal if james knew what was in that journal, the prosecution would have told you that at the end

of november, the shooter road he only had one thing on his mind. all i need is my nine millimeter pistol, which i am currently begging my dad four mr. conley asked to see the sig sauer, said he it out his eye on that for quite some time on black friday, >> james bought his son the sig sauer nine millimeter, and the shooter posted online just got my new beauty today his dad hit the gun, but didn't lock it up a cable lock bought with it found in its packaging. i will have to find where my dad hid my nine millimeter before i can shoot the school monday, november 29. >> the >> shooter apparently founded writing the shooting is tomorrow. i have access to the gun and ammo i am fully committed this to now hana st. juliana justin shilling, madison baldwin and take me or were killed seven others were

wounded james crumbley himself did not testify. >> it is my decision to remain silent. >> james crumbley's wife, jennifer, convicted of involuntary manslaughter, just its last month. >> we find the defendant guilty of involuntary manslaughter. >> she faces up to 15 years in prison >> outside the courthouse in pontiac, michigan. this is really just a stunning verdict what have been some of the reactions you've we've seen or read since the verdict was right >> you know, anderson, the family members of those four students that were murdered at oxford high school, they have been a formidable force in the courtroom the hearings i've attended the trials that i've attended the guilty pleas that i've attended, their there. and they talk about amongst each other how they have to relive this over and over again while they were in that courtroom when that verdict came out, they got justice

tonight. and they were hugging a prosecutor. is there is such a bond between them and the prosecutors. this was a very important one. homework for them. >> it's so interesting that this guy is, was essentially his attorneys are arguing, well, he didn't know about any of the trouble his son was having. obviously, the jury didn't buy that no, it's interesting. they deliberated a long time. we don't know what if they took a poll and they were on different sides, but it appears as though with the length of the deliberations, i mean, they started at 09:00. this morning and then tonight they had a verdict so the defense argument was that james crumbley, the evidence did not show that he knew his son was having mental difficulties yes. he lost a friend? yes. his grandmother died? yes. his dog died. that he realized that but didn't know it extended that far. but after that drawing, that math drawing that showed the bullets, the blood everywhere my life is useless. the world is dead, bullet holes

in a person that's when prosecutors say and it looks like the jury believed it that light bulb should have gone off in the head of james crumbley that there was a very serious issue with his sun in terms of sentencing, what's next >> well, his sentencing is april 9th at 09:00 a.m. right here. that is the very same day and time that jennifer crumbley's sentencing is going to take place. so both of them together, but it makes sense because you're going to have victim impact statements. here in michigan. victim impact statements there how to fight in the statute. and they encouraged them. they want everyone who is a victim of family member, immediate surviving victim, to be able to present that victory from impact statement. so one day, i think is appropriate. so the families won't have to go through it two separate days in two separate times. >> june because ours thank you for everything i appreciate it coming up next back to the

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captioning is brought to you by audio book network. authors tell your story, produce an audio book with us. >> 1 earn more profits and find a new audience for your published book. produce an audio book. we handled narration production, and digital distribution, color scan, the qr code. now tonight is breaking news and one from trial which we reported at the top of the broadcast comms hard on the heels of potentially good breaking news for him in another, we've learned the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, is okay with postponing his hush money trial. if the judge agrees. and this comes just days after federal prosecutors handed over thousands of pages of documents from their own investigation and after which they decided not to bring charges. as you know, the new york trial is set to begin on the 25th of this month, pushing it ahead a month would mean it could begin the same day. the supreme court has said for oral arguments on presidential immunity in the january 6 case, a foreign prison course does not have to be there for that, but he will have to attend his criminal trial john, he's now with more cnn's chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid. so how did this happen with the

trial date less than two weeks away? >> anderson, i think the judge is going to have the same exact question. if this is a surprise twist, certainly gives a boost to trump who has been employing the strategy. i'm just trying to delay all of his criminal cases and delays ahead of trials. that's not an unusual occurrence. >> but here, this >> delay is the result of the fact that both sides now need to review tens of thousands of pages of evidence that was only handed over by federal prosecutors on wednesday. remember this is a state case so this is information coming from previous federal investigations why is it just coming in now? what depends who you ask. >> the trump >> team insist that the manhattan district attorney that is bringing this case against former president trump, but they have withheld it, but prosecutors insist that the trump team just waited until earlier this year to subpoena the evidence as part of an effort to delay. now, the trump team wants to push this case back 90 days. prosecutors say they wouldn't object to a 30 day delay, but ultimately, it'll be up to the judge. >> and do we know when the

judge make a decision will understand this case was scheduled to start at ten days. so i would expect a decision quite soon. open question though, is whether this judge is going to want to have a hearing or a teleconference just to press the parties on some of these issues, but i would expect this in a matter of days. >> and does so how does that impact the overall calendar trump's court case? because this was supposed to be the first one. >> yeah. and it was the only one that was firmly on the calendar. now, with the help of our calendar graphic here the other three criminal trials right now are in limbo. the january 6 federal prosecution. it's unclear when that's going to go or if it'll go at all. because in april, the supreme court will hear arguments on whether former president trump has immunity to shield him from that case. and then we don't expect a decision there until probably mid to late june now, in may, you see the classified documents trial. is there look, that's just in pencil. we were in court two weeks ago where the judge, aileen cannon, a trump appointee, she heard arguments about when she could push that back at based on what

we heard while i was down in florida, anderson i think she would probably put that on august at the earliest now, you also have the georgia case that fani willis said she wanted to bring in august. currently, there is, of course, an open question of whether she will still oversee that case and those efforts to disqualify her certainly will have delayed that case beyond august. so anderson, with this new request for delay, we'll see what the judge does. but right now, it is not clear if former president trump will face any criminal prosecution. before november. >> all right. all right. thanks backward. jeff tube and jennifer rodgers and andrew mccabe also joining us. margaret hoover, host of firing line on pbs inter doesn't make sense. you southern that federal prosecutors. why would they just now send this stuff over? i know they were subpoenaed, but couldn't they've sent this stuff to the manhattan da earlier. >> there's not a good answer for that question there. i think on the surface, the multiple prosecutors offices in new york. so you have manhattan and then you have the two federal prosecution offices, the southern district and the eastern district. on the surface, we always hear about

good cooperation. the law enforcement community. >> but in the >> nitty-gritty of individual cases, in my own experience for having been an agent there for a decade or so these these requests for evidence or access to each other's witnesses are often fraught with competition and defensiveness. prosecutors want to be very careful before they turn over documents to another prosecutor's offices to ensure that they're not going to use them or need them at some point in the future, i would expect there were some calculations like that involved or basic bureaucratic delay. it takes a lot of approvals and up the chain of command. well, i mean, >> jennifer, in the filing, da bragg blames the former president's legal team saying that they didn't try to seek the records until january. he wrote we note that the timing of the current production of additional materials from the us a0 is a function of defendant's own delay, but if bragg knew this material was out there, couldn't he have as for it. yeah. it depends what it is and we don't have a great

idea about that. we may learn more when they file their actual substantive response either tomorrow or monday. but it sounds like at least some of these materials, a lot of them are bank records and things that probably aren't so critical. but some of them at least are statements of people like michael cohen who's going to be a witness, that stuff that they should have the defection have. so if there are statements of michael cohen that weren't turned over previously, they need to have them. we don't know what alvin bragg knew that the fed's had is the problem of jeff. does that make sense to you? >> this is all so outrageous. you're all being very polite here. i mean, the us attorney's office in manhattan, the southern district according to them manhattan da the da asked for these documents last year and the us attorney's office, for whatever reason, chose not to turn them over as a result, they only turn them over just very recently, which the da says is all the southern districts fall. why didn't the southern district cooperate with but these fellow prosecutor, i mean, if if obviously alvin bragg, i would

think would want to see any interviews that michael cohen gave. >> and he asked for them and he asked for them. and the us attorney said no. and the us attorney apparently has thousands more records that they're going to turn over sometime in the future, which could lead to more delays. and by the way, once these records are turned over, you can be sure the defense is going to say, well, this raises a whole new set of issues. so we have to file more motions and asked for more delays. this is a embarrassment to the law enforcement community. and the only beneficiary is donald trump. >> wow. >> margaret, guess i came kept waiting for you to blame sdn. why? but you're just too polite. >> i mean, i >> did texas the former stn why prosecutor earlier when i said to you guys screwed this up, right? >> you said? yes and yes. i mean, it was all on background. of course. >> i'm going how can they screw up a case which you want? >> our eyes are wide open here. this is not like you've got a

massive firewall. all of this is playing out in the press. if you have documents that are germane shear them immediately, this is relevant. i don't you can i get that but but my not uncommon? >> prosecutors approaching >> each other with answering requests for documents, it usually comes at an arm's length. well, i'll think about it and when i get around to it, i'll i'll calculate as to whether or not there's a one-in-a-million chance i might need these documents from my own case. and if there is, you're never getting them so that's the sort of reluctance that goes into these requests. it should never have happened in this case. i absolutely agree with this, but here we use a word for that policy. it's bad. bad policy to have prosecutors fighting with each other and not cooperating with each other when that is there was there an attitude at the southern good of new york where they thought, oh, this bragg cases thin gruel and we don't have to i can, i cannot imagine that that they wouldn't weigh in on somebody else's case, what they would do, maybe say,

maybe we still have a strand of this investigation that's open. we're not going to turn this over for some reason that they have as of this case embarrasses them to some degree, right? here's alvin bragg basically making a case that they walked away from. so that does not shroud them in prosecutorial aggression and glory, which is where they preferred a base. >> so their response to that is to not give over evidence, which makes them look even worse. i mean, that's and that's why i don't think that that was the reason. i mean, you're going to turn it over now in response to a subpoena it's gonna look worse. i can't imagine they made that deliberate decision not to turn it over beforehand, but we'll maybe we'll know more when they show morgan before for the former president, this is a huge political win, delay, delay when, when, when dysfunction and it feeds into all the theories, all the all the fake news and conspiracy there as it is winding up anywhere that i mean, the truth is though this isn't the case, which i mean, we know this isn't the case when i went to trial, that was gonna be the case that >> that is at least from a political perspective, the one

is going to help the opposition are people who are concerned about trump returning to the presidency really make the political argument that like this, he shouldn't go back to the presidency because of a business misdemeanor that was worth about $130,000. i mean, that's not the case. it's the case where he took secret documents and top secret documents and hidden them as shower in mar-a-lago illegally. that's the case. you want to litigate politically nationally in the months before and weeks before the the national elections, presidential actually, that's a little unfair to the manhattan da's case. i mean, the manhattan da's case, at least the way they're putting it, is that the reason all of this money went to stormy daniels was to hide stuff from the voters on the eve of the 2016, they're saying it's an election interference election interference case which makes sense to me. as a normal business for i'm kate and i understand that there's no precedent for that. well, there's no >> precedent for a lot of things. donald j, but it is also true that if he's convicted, he will be a convicted felon. and in

america, that's usually considered not a good qualification to be president of the united states. >> do you think this is going to go to trial before the election? i do. i think this one i think will somehow stagger to trial in some time in the spring. >> and to your political point, actually, the polling bears out that if he is convicted in any trial or in any case, in all of the seven tipping point jurisdictions, states that are close that will decide the election. this dramatically changes. that's what people say. bolsters. but who knows if that's true? i mean, they >> said that two pollsters, when they also said they would vote for him over biden at the same time, we'll see margaret over. thank you. jeff tube and jennifer rodgers, andrew mccabe, a follow-up now to last night's reporting on sort of presidential politics in new york jets quarterback and potential rfk junior running mate aaron rodgers. namely that he has privately shared false conspiracy d theories about the massacre at sandy hook elementary school in 2012, with two people that we know of cnn's pamela brown, who says that rodgers told her at a party in 2013 that the shooting was a government inside job and

another who scene and gave anonymity so as to prevent harassment, who says that? rodgers said, quote, sandy hook never happened in quote, all those children never existed. they were actors today on social media. rodgers said, quote, as i'm on the record saying in the past, what happened in sandy hook was an absolute tragedy. i am not and have never been of the opinion that the events did not take place. and quote coming up a report on how a conspiracy theory in arizona left one county with five tons a ballot paper, the cost taxpayers, they're hundreds of thousands of dollars and it's useless question is, how did it all start? well, it was fear of bamboo laced ballots details. next kinda riva support your brain health >> mary janet, hey eddie, know, fraser, franck. franck, bread. >> how are you? >> fred, fuel up to seven brain health indicators, including your memory, joined the nerva brain health check did you know taking xyz all at night release

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a crime and some home and then police arrive in full tactical gear, scaring whoever is actually in the home arizona is another state where election denialism has been persistent or donie o'sullivan tonight as well, he's been reporting on it for years tonight. he brings us a strange tale involving fears of china and supposed bamboo laced ballots. here's donie this is a story about paper. lots and lots of paper. americans have been voting on paper for most of the country's history. but back in 2020, bizarre conspiracy theories about paper started to spread, is looking for bamboo laced valets, fraudulent ballots unloaded from a south korean plane into arizona, and it was stuffed into the box. >> all of that led to this five tons worth nearly $200,000 of supposedly fraud proof ballot paper. it's currently lying on the floor of this warehouse house in phoenix. no one is

quite sure what to do. it. >> had there ever been a problem with the paper before? no. no one's ever questioned the paper. >> and then what happened? >> we're getting into 2020 there's rumors of bamboo and the paper and paper from china and a lot of different stories that circulated and so it just kind of went from there and people started questioning that as you were seeing that play out what were you thinking? >> that it was not entered, >> david stevens, he ordered the paper paper itself, ballot paper. people have concerns about that. >> there were concerns, yes. >> what were those concerns? >> the people were making their own ballots and then interjecting them into the system they were coming from foreign countries. >> maybe we can >> make our paper more secure. so we would know quicker or easier if it really is a valid arizona ballot or if it is not. >> do you personally believe the bamboo paper thing

>> i don't know much about it. other than they think it came from wherever stevens is a top election official in arizona's coachees county coachees is home to tombstone, but it's a place where election conspiracy theories won't seem to die and 2020 election skeptics delayed certification of the midterm elections here stevens, opponent in an upcoming election says he is part of the problem in coachees. coachees has been in the headlines a lot the last year is because of elections. and mostly for bad reasons, it's an uphill battle because there are people who spread this information about our elections this theory that there's a problem with our paper. so it was a, it was a solution in search of a problem because we've never had a problem with our ballot paper. they're all kinds of safeguards and on top of other safeguards to make sure that the wrong ballot paper or it

cause any problems. >> ron back election services takes these huge rolls of paper and turn them into millions of ballots that are used across the country, but not these two roles of special ballast, guard paper ordered by david stevens using a stage grants so this is a sample of the ballot guard paper. so when you sign on a black light, you get these ub fibers that now become a parent. additionally, there's what's called an ir tagging. and it's a chemical in there that when you hold a scanner over it, it'll it'll by row a, ms deadline and other bureaucratic snafus has put a halt to the soul who called secure paper experiment. >> so i >> mean it's essentially $200,000 gone to waste >> a little >> less than that, but yeah, this sounds like a bit of a nightmare. i pretty much, yeah. i want it to be over. >> but adrian fontes, arizona's top election official says stevens experiment

shouldn't have started in the first place. >> well, the economic costs of the conspiracy theories in arizona are real dollars now the paper that was purchased by this one county based on these conspiracy theories that is absolutely useless. and we can when you use it, they can't use it. this is taxpayer dollars down the drain based on lies >> steven said he is not a conspiracy theorists, but in our conversation, he didn't refuse any. do you >> biden won the last election? >> the election and coaches county was fair and balanced and trump won. coach is counting. so nationally >> that's >> where the numbers came out. so there were there were a lot of issues but maybe there's an explanation for him. i don't know. >> to be fair. there's a lot of people think 2016 was rigged. hillary clinton still thinks she won the election. are they election denier's? >> democrats would say, well look, our side didn't go attack the us capitol.

>> i wasn't there. i didn't go. we actually had some people here that when i think they they claim it was peaceful. >> but the facts are clear. january 6 was not peaceful hillary clinton formally conceiving to donald trump the morning after the election, an arizona is declutter tons of seemingly useless paper >> food donie, tony, tony joins us now. so the thing gross taxpayers $200,000 that guy said that there were a lot of issues with the election and there weren't actually factually so what can this paper be using upcoming election is there are taxpayers just out the $200,000. >> it looks like they're out right now. yeah. i mean, look important to stay here. there isn't an issue based off all the experts, other election officials, and arizona told us there's no problem with the paper. >> there's no bamboo and fuse pay, there's no bamboo >> in the paper, there's not a not a coming out of the plains

and south korea so there was, wasn't a need they say for this in the first place. now there are talks about what are they going to do it this paper, there was talk about the potentially might put it out in public auction, but that the experts tell us might itself actually create great security issues to have this sort of paper just out there in the wild in the first place. so very much truly the real physical manifestation of conspiracy theories in arizona. >> wow, don't even solvent. as always. thank you. appreciate it >> just ahead with haiti on edge >> and delivery food and other essentials disrupted. we'll talk with sean pan, the co-founder of the aid organization. core. but what his teams on the ground are seeing now introducing finish ultimate engineered for the toughest condition dry burn tons, stains, dishwashers what new finish ultimate with second sig technology helps deliver the health >> is your shower trying to tell you something is getting in and out of the bathtub

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it is reducing its number of non-essential personnel one of the aid groups work in haiti, his core which stands for community organized relief effort. it's co-founders after sean penn, who's been working okay. in haiti since the earthquake in 2010. they do work in the capital port-au-prince, as well as other locations throughout the country. sean penn joins me now >> sean, >> what's this situation for your team on the ground in haiti? >> well, since they've got increasingly worse following the assassination of president luis and the gang violence really rose up and the gangs that as you know, had long themselves has been exploited, exploited the opportunity to kind of carry, carry this for themselves rather than being the arm of others and then the coalition that was put together by barbecue. the ganglia. and it got to the point where most of our work in port-au-prince was having to beat up people were working essentially from

home. it was the threat level was that high in the south, in particular, in some of the rural areas we were able to continue pretty much as normal. >> i mean, have you you've worked in haiti now for for a long time, have you ever seen it like this before? >> no. >> i had heard about it being like this back 2003, 2004, when it had really blown up. but then there was a large disarmament and things had been sure it was still a tricky place. particular areas of the city were to be taken seriously. let's say but this became such mayhem. people who i'd known that had live their whole lives there and lived through a lot of tough times. we're reporting to me that they'd never seen anything like what this became are you there's now this kind of coalition that's supposed to be formed. and hopefully that would lead to elections and

some sort of restoration of a political process that could actually help haiti move forward. >> i >> mean, are you at all optimistic in the near-term? >> well, i don't know if optimistic is the word that i would use, but i am certainly not pessimistic about it because i without having the perspective of having been born and raised in haiti as a haitian it's, very hard to say what they might do with this moment. now that henry has resigned, which has been one of the big demands of the gangs. things have calmed down. we may actually be able to gear back up into an operating mode and some of the people, people who certainly oppose the gangs are giving credit now to the fact that it was the gangs that were

able to do this thing that so many wanted to have done. now, if that means that haiti can look at it as a new beginning then i would hope that the united states can look at it as a new beginning in canada and france, and all of those three in particular, so that we maybe, for, altogether for the first time, listen, listen to what the haitians, how they want to do it and what they need but i do think it's the kind of culture that can come to some kind of truth and reconciliation. >> as you mentioned, your organization core is still a blob, right? and other parts of haiti out in the countryside and in other cities, just not as much in port-au-prince as you were before. what kind of work are you still doing there? well, everything from agricultural products to food security programs a lot of shelf shelter programs, wash programs we diversified based on what the community leaders in the area where we work have

partnered with us to do and we always stay there with a hand in disaster relief. should terms of flooding storms and that sort of thing and education is i think only now again, going to be a principal part of what we do there in terms of the biggest needs right now, what, what are some of the biggest concerns sean >> well, certainly security and that's something that you know, i've taught i've taught haitians that who are not looking to have foreign troops come in as peacekeepers. let's say, and create another minus problem but are looking for the training of their police, the resourcing of their police >> and then >> just as significant as the food security issues right now, this is a country that's threatening famine threatened with famine if something isn't done aggressively. >> sean