coming longtime anticipated, and very much waiting for for everyone on every side of this case. what is at stake here? so let's set the stakes >> if fani willis is disqualified then her entire office would be removed. in this case. the case would go into a sort of holding pattern where it might languish indefinitely if she is not disqualified, then the case can carry on. now there's still questions about when it would be tried. the da's asking for an august trial. de i don't think that's realistic, but really whether this case stays on track or not yet will be term and by the decision which we're going through right now as to whether the da has been disqualified la stick with me controlling tells me it. paula reid was hit over to paula reid who has more information about what is in this decision from scott matt from judge scott mcafee, paula, what do you know? >> so the top line here is that the judge has ruled that the district attorney, fani willis, can continue on this case against former president trump and over a dozen other defendants. but he does address this issue of an appearance of

a conflict because the big question here is whether there was an actual conflict. the defendants were alleging that fani willis and not only that she had this romantic relationship with a lead prosecutor on the trump case? case, but then she also benefited financially and he had to decide the judge had to sort of do this analysis. is it enough that it's just looks bad, but there's an appearance of a conflict or did they need to prove to the defendants at trump and his co-defendants need to prove that there was an actual conflict now, again, i say that day fani willis can stay on this case. it also appears that the judge is saying that this appearance issue needs to be addressed before this can go forward. so this appears to be a pretty nuanced a ruling, but the headline is that the district attorney at her office can stay on this case, but we continue to read to learn more about exactly what the judge is saying, about how you need to address the appearance of impropriety >> right? paula reid with the headline there and it is a big one which is that district attorney fani willis. can stay

on the case. she is not disqualified. le holding her office is not disqualified. the fulton county district attorney office and continue to prosecute these crimes. that is the bottom line. biggest takeaway here, fani willis, can remain on the case. it sounds like the judge has found there was not an actual conflict of interests, not a provable financial conflict of interest important to keep in mind, the defendants, donald trump, and the other charge defendants, they're the ones who bore the burden of proof here. they had to prove there was a financial conflict of interests and apparently, based on our initial readings of this ruling, they have not carried that burden. now we'll see if the judge has some other sort of measures that he suggests will see if he has any harsh words for fani willis or her office, but yes, the bottom line is, the da stays on the case, hence, her office stays on the case. hence, it can continue to move forward. and as we said before, they don't have a set trial date yet. the da has asked for a trial in august. i don't think that's remotely realistic, but it will

continue. it will not be put into this sort of suspended animation that otherwise would have gone into stay with us right now. we're gonna go to paula reid. she's got some more information you're going through this right now looking through the judge's ruling and there are some harsh words in it, we understand >> there are two ellie's point. the judge, while he has not removed fani willis from the case, he does have some considerable criticism for her. he's saying, look, without sufficient evidence. so the district attorney the acquired a personal stake in this prosecution or that her financial arrangements had any impact on the case. so there he is addressing the fact that they didn't really prove that she benefited from wade being on this case when she was in a romantic relationship, she said the defendants claims of an actual conflict must be denied. let's look, you didn't prove that she had any sort of benefit that she received from the money nathan wade is making from this case. but he said this finding is by no means any indication that the court condones this tremendous lapse in judgment or the unprofessional manner of the

district attorney's testimony during the evidentiary hearing rather it is the undersigned the judge's opinion that jure law does not permit the finding of an actual conflict for simply making bad choices. so this is pretty significant. i mean, he has suggesting that she or he is saying that he had a tremendous lapse in judgment that she was unprofessional when she testified. remember, she was getting pretty contentious, pretty fiery with the defense attorney insisting that she was not on trial when in fact, they were asking your questions because the judge was assessing whether she needed to be disqualified. and then also saying here that she made bad choices and look, even though she's going to stay on the case all of this, especially this language from the judge and we're just skimming the opinion right now. i'm sure there's there's likely more. it's really a gift to former president trump and his co-defendants because they're not only going to fight this case on the merits, the fighting in the court of public opinion optics here matter. he has tried to undermine trust in the justice system. and if you have a judge who is overseeing a case, calling the prosecutor

again unprofessional, saying that she made a bad decision, she had a lapse in judgment that is a lot of ammunition gen. for the former president and his co-defendants >> well, thank you so much. paul is going to continue to bring us the headlines. mall stick close and just let us know. we also have michael moore from us attorney joining us as well. michael, your take on what the nuance as paula has laid out? the headline fani willis, not disqualified from the case, not dismissed from the case. her office is still handling this case. but the words and the criticisms coming from the judge about her unprofessional manner, as he says, it yeah. >> well, i'm glad to be with you. >> this was a self-inflicted wound that should have been healed and taken care of months ago. but basically they just let it get infected. now to this place where the district attorney has been called by a court but. she has to practice in front of frac, then her office has practice in front of ghg has been called now and and this friday, they will.

>> it is a gift to the defense, i believe is they will use this as they talk about whether or not the case has married or whether or not it was brought for other reasons, whether or not it's professional prosecutor and all that. we're going to hear all that down the road, but we're also going to hear i expect comments from the georgia legislature. is they have moved forward with their panel inquiry into her conduct. we're going to hear now this finding echoed around the halls of congress by the likes of people like jim jordan and things like that. so this is not good day for the state and it's not a good look for but remember, this could have been remedy as we go through the older now, this initial appearance been nipped in the bud, and i don't know why it was left to fester but now it's basically cause gangrene of the limb and it's the judge's say, look, we're we're moving and if we're going forward and that's where we're at today. >> well, not so much. right. >> she's allowed to continue prosecuting the case. the case

is still on the da's office. so there is an element of the i understand that politically, it is now loaded with a lot of comments from a judge here. but the case, the alternative, michael, was that this judge judge could have said this case no longer can be prosecuted by the fulton county's da that would have put it into a complete limbo where no one may have been prosecuting it for months and months and months now this this is the same judge. now that's going to oversee this case. and this is not this is not what you won't go it into a judge if you're a prosecutor, a lawyer, honest. i have a case where you've already been called unprofessional. it so while and i don't think politically she's got to worry. i mean, she's a democratic county. she's she's like by many people in our personal and professional capacity. i don't think she's got to worry about whether or not somebody runs a guest are and uses this as some big trump, but that they're gonna leader at the polls. this is about how the case looks going forward and now whether

or not when a representation is made by the stated court, whether or not the judge believes that and so this is pikes the entire picture. the case may go forward. i mean, the case could have gone forward anyway, the prosecutor attorneys council could appoint wanted somebody, but this case, i will tell you. i don't believe is going forward before the election. it doesn't of fani willis has prosecuted or the prosecutor that's appointed from wherever this case is not going to move forward and away. and i think the judge is saying you've got to clean up your house before you if we're going to deal with this case. so it's not it is not a good thing. no lawyer wants to be in front of a judge, argued motions asking for things denied hey we're going to jump in here, michael. michael, we're just going to jump in because i gotta get back to paula reid has got some more information from the actual ruling fallen >> yeah. look, i do agree with michael's point there about the timing on when this case can go forward, fani willis originally

said she wanted to bring it in august this process to attempt to disqualify are a certain eaten, eaten up some time. but now there's another issue she needs to address and that is the fate of the lead prosecutor for this investigation, nathan wade, who she had at a romantic relationship with the judge here, just lucky had some harsh words for fani willis also has some pretty strong language related to mr. wade. here he calls wade's testimony his explanation for some incorrect formation that he submitted, quote, unpersuasive. he also describes his conduct as showing a willingness to wrongfully conceal his relationship with the district attorney. the judge said, as the case moves forward reasonable members of the public could easily be left to wonder whether the financial exchanges between wade and the district attorney have continued resulting in some form of benefit to the district district attorney or whether the romantic relationship has resumed. i think you read between the lines, you lied once you could potentially lie again or could reasonably think that the district attorney

it's not exercising her independent professional judgment, totally free of any compromising influences. he says, and here's the key quote. as long as wade remains on this case, the unnecessary perception and will persist basically saying because of what has happened during this process, what they've learned, the fact that mr. wade was not always honest with the court. he said this is going to hind this cloud of distrust over this case and he is suggesting that nathan wade needs to be removed now he does not, as i understand it, order him to be removed, but he's walking up to line is saying he's he's gotta go. now, some people have previously called for nathan wade and fani willis step aside. neither one of them have done that. neither one of them have given any indication they intend to do that, but it's impossible to see really how this case would go forward. certainly not before the election mr. wade at the helm when you have the judge overseeing the case saying, look, he's gotta go >> paula reid, i know you're pouring over this and we will get back to you as soon as you get more new information. i do want to go now to elie honig this is what i'm reading in

the language the prosecution of this case cannot proceed until the state selects one of two options. so very clear there he's saying you cannot go forward unless what one of you has to go, either the da with her the entire office, or nathan wade. this will be the easiest decision that is office has ever had to make. obviously, nathan wade will go and the judge in his ruling says, essentially this is necessary to preserve public confidence in this case. he says there's enough of an appearance there's enough of as he says, at one point, an odor of men udacity around this case. interesting phrase that something's got to be done to at least clean up the public said, yes, of men udacity, whatever that's mostly what you're talking thing was so messiness with michael moore saying this could have been nipped in the bud. >> again, it's really important to underscore here. the big takeaway, fani willis stays on the case. the da's office keeps the case. that

case can carry on. that is far and away. the bold headline, they have survived but not without substantial damage. i mean, there's some really stark language in this ruling. the judge calls out the da's quote, tremendous lack in judgment, the odor of men udacity. he says that the speech, the public speech she made in the church was legally improper, and the judge even says in the ruling, it may be time for a gag order on the da because she keeps on making improper public statements. he leaves it out there. he doesn't say i'm issuing one, but he raises the possibility of a gag order on the da i there's gag orders and donald trump. right. because we collectively fear that he may be tainting the jury pool. and now the judge floats the same possibility. so the da's office has survived. the case, survives it will roll on at what pace we'll see, but but there are some damaged on here. >> is this, this isn't the best that this isn't the best ruling that fani willis could have gotten, or is this the best rolling? it's pretty close to the i just want to make sure that we're making

clear to people. yeah. right. again, yeah. if, i'm the da in breathing a heavy sigh of relief right now because this language yet we will see it in the media and maybe the jury pool will see it. you can filter that out later, but they have survived. your goal here is to survive and carry on with the case. i mean, this ruling is ugly. i mean, it is if i'm the da i'm reading this really, i'm breathing a sigh of relief, but i'm also cringing at some of the language the judge has put out there, but the number one goal is keep the case alive and stay on the case. and the da has so much. here's what could have been worse case here's what it would have been. i mean, what could have been slightly better, excuse me. the judge could have said i find no impropriety here. i find the evidence presented by the defendants entirely unconvincing. they failed to carry on their burden, carry on with the case. the judge has not done that. he has found i wouldn't say a midpoint is not 50, 50, but he has given the defendants certain concessions. let's get reaction from the ground right now. we get a sense of maybe how the da's office feels about this. did valencia in georgia right now, nick, what are you hearing

>> yeah. huge win for fani willis. point blank. let's full stop there. this is a victory for the fulton county district attorney's office. it means that they stay on this case and we'll continue to pick back up their investigation, an investigation that started three years ago on january 2, 2021 one with that infamous phone call from the former president of the georgia secretary of state in which he said, find me more votes. fani willis, despite this blistering language from the judge, the wind for her her is that she's going to remain on this case and she survived tough words from judges before take it back to last year when she was basically admonished by judge robert mcburney, who is overseeing in the special purpose grand jury process he told her that the optics were horrible, that she held a fundraiser for her her friend, the former candidate for lieutenant governor, charlie bailey haley shade because of that, she was disqualified from investigating. now, lieutenant governor burt jones. jones, who participated in the fake electors scheme. we should mention a special prosecutor peter has still not been named in that investigation, so that

was this scenario here is that fani willis could have been removed and we could have found ourselves in a position where it would have been handed over prosecuting attorneys council and they would have had a very unique challenge in trying to find a prosecuting team to take over this case. yes. the judge basically smack der on the wrist and said that she had they terrible lapse in judgment, but the point of all, this is that fani willis stays on and she's going to be able to continue on with this investigation and investigation that has led to 19 and documents including an historic one against the former president. it has led to for guilty pleas, including the crack and attorney of the former president, jenna ellis, sidney powell, scott hall. can chesebro for all of those individuals have already pleaded guilty and fani willis gets to continue and march on with this progress. he's already made to this point. we have not heard from the fulton county district attorney's dolphins, but we could only imagine that behind us they are celebrating this as a huge win and we know that because the defense attorneys, they haven't commented on this. we've asked steve sadow who sent us this motion. we've asked ashleigh merchant, who also forwarded this ruling to comment on this on the record

and they have not said yet what their reaction is. and that's a big indicator that this is a hue which when again, for fulton county district attorney fani willis and her team, john nick valencia. thank you so much and may take it from here. let's go now to laura coates. laura there are these two ideas. one is whether there was actual proof of impropriety and the other idea that is brought into this case, which the judge mentioned is the appearance of impropriety he said, yes, there was the appearance, but not the proof explain all of this and how this sort of panned out for the judge this was so consequential if you remember at the end of the last hearing, you heard from the da's office, they were defending against this motion to >> disqualify fani willis and the entire team. this question of well, isn't appearance of impropriety and appearance of a conflict going to be enough. most people are accustomed to hearing about the quote, unquote hint of impropriety. we were talking about a judge attempting to recover cues themselves. here it was. has

there been enough of a conflict or can i have an appearance of a conflict such that it would rise the level of not allowing a defendant to have a fair trial. that is the crux of any decisions running this and this judge was very clear. he said as nick valencia pointed out, it wasn't he condones what he saw a lapse of judgment, but instead, that the georgia law does not permit the finding of an actual conflict for simply making. he says, bad choices even repeatedly. but here's the crux of the entire thing as well going forward, nothing in that trial, nothing in those hearings had anything to do with the the underlying facts as alleged. there were allegations from the moving party is trying to get her disqualified, that her statements at that church event somehow prejudice the jury pool more broadly, tried to play the race card and beyond. but when it came to the actual allegations in the indictment, those were untouched in this particular hearing. but the jury is what is top of mind for

this judge. the judge believes and had the statement saying, look, as the case moves forward, reasonable members of the public could easily be left to wonder whether the financial exchanges have continued resulting in some form of benefit for the da, or even whether their romantic relationship has resumed so we talked about this a great deal, sarah and everyone else, that a jury is going to be looking at this and wondering, well, hold on, rather than the facts before them and the evidence is presented, what's going on here are the ultimate distraction, the ultimate sideshow, know prosecutor wants to walk in any courtroom and have people wondering about their personal life. prosecutors are fungible. they are interchangeable to such an extent, i remember when i was pregnant and i said to the judge, i can have a trial date on this thing. it's my due date. they said really is the entire government pregnant. they think of us all as fungible, interchangeable. and so anytime you're walking in, you want to be that blank slate. you want to be the government, the fulton county people you are on behalf for them. and so having this singular focus on one's

relationship is highly problematic. finally, when you look broadly at what is at stake here, this was the only case it really touches on all of the co-defendants. we've talked a lot about donald trump, mark meadows, and the other cases involving a few other co-defendants trickling mar-a-lago. >> this it was a case in fulton county of a broad scope with extreme gravitas because it touches on the electors scheme and beyond. and so had this case gone away, it wouldn't just have impacted donald trump or even a mark meadows. it would have had the more than a dozen remaining co-defendants and who and they're right professional minds gearing up could have been the next team to successfully get up to speed, let alone prepare for trial anytime within the next year >> laura i won't. thank you, john. thank you. i'm going to jordi rules here. thank you so much, laura. laura is going through it as well as just stick with us. let's get back over to paula reid following you're going through this

more, what are you thinking? what are you seeing? >> look at top line. yes. fani willis gets to stay on the case and that's a win for horror. that's what she was advocating for. but when you read the language here, when you step back and look at the totality of the circumstances it really is hard to see how this is truly a big w when, i mean, here are you have one of the most significant criminal prosecutions in the country right now that has been pushed back several months because his efforts to disqualify her. well, yes, technically, she remains on the case here. you have a judge does saying that she had, quote, a tremendous lapse in judgment saying that she was unprofessional on the stand, noting that she made bad choices and saying that the lead prosecutor overseeing this case has got to go. so yes, the case itself remains in fulton county. now it's not even fully intact. the judge just dismissive counts, though those could come back and look at the case itself. you're right. the facts remain the same. remains to be seen. if there are convictions for former president trump and his co-defendants. but it's not just what happens in the courtroom. the court of public opinion matters here the most

high-profile defendant is running again for the white house, a large part of his legal strategy is not only to delay, but also to undermine the public's trust in the system to insist that he is the victim of prosecutors who have selected him because he is running again for the white house and conduct like this words from a judge, like this. all go towards undermining confidence in the system. i mean, they are going to walk into this case whenever it starts with this cloud hanging over this entire case, it's again, when you have the criminal justice system under such incredibly intense attacks from former president trump, and his allies conduct like this, does does not help people's trust in the system or in the outcome of this case. i mean, yes, i got technically this is a win for her that she stays on the case. but i'm not sure this is a winner for the justice system >> all right. paula reid. thank you very much le follow-up notes correctly. they will walk into that courtroom with a cloud over their head, but they

will walk into that courtroom, right? which wasn't clear, was going to happen before today. so two things. one is this can amount to driving 100 miles per hour. the cop pulls you over and gives you the harshest lecture on the world, but doesn't give you a ticket. b. what happens next here? what can happen next? >> so it's a little worse than the driving hypothetical because this is all on the public record for us to see and the language here is really fairly remarkable. i mean, i want to point out to one other section apologist gave us a couple. there's a section of this opinion where the judges talking about the testimony by the da fani willis and nathan wade, that their romantic relationship only started after he was hired. right? and there was a substantial dispute and. the judge essentially says the evidence wasn't clear enough for me to decide, but then the judge writes this at page 17 reasonable questions about whether the da and her hand selected lead prosecutor testified untruthful about the timing of their relationship, further underpin the finding of an appearance of impropriety. i mean this is the de shi is the chief law enforcement officer

of that county. the she is held to a different standard. i wasn't federal prosecutor. if you are the lead, the eye was never a leed da. you are held to a higher standard and it happened don't have a judge say there are reasonable questions about whether this person lied on the stand is a big deal. so yes, the da survives. again, most important thing the case carries on, but real damaged on here and really strong language. i wanted tours. what happens next? sorry. >> he can be appealed. yeah. does this strong language because there may is all this strong language relevant insofar as it could have implications than another courtroom. >> so >> probably can be appealed. let's look at it both ways. theoretically, the da's office could appeal if they really didn't like the prospect of losing nathan wade. i'm telling you that's not going to happen they are wiping their brow and say, okay, nathan wade, thanks for coming. you're out. we're going to survive because again, the judge gave the da's office a choice, either the da her entire office goes or nathan

wade goes. that's an obvious decision. theoretically, the da's office could appeal now, the defendants can try to appeal this, but there's going to be a question about whether they have the right to file what we call an interlocutory appeal, which means an appeal. now, an appeal before trial. so normally if you're a defendant, you bring your appeal after trial, after you've been convicted and sentenced. but in certain narrow circumstances, you have the right to appeal before the trial and adding necessity delay the trial from going forward. >> that would absolutely >> delay the trial from going forward, but it's not clear under georgia law and general principles whether they have the right to challenge this. now, or whether they have to wait until the whole feel is over. so if they did appeal at some point, they would argue that the judge used the wrong standard and that the judge gave an unreonle reading on the facts, but i don't i don't' assessment of credit stability of witnesses. we've talked about this. and when a judge says, i didn't find the defendant's witnesses persuasive. he doesn't find fani willis, particularly persuasive either, but it's the

defendant's burden that's ththi stand i don't think it will be struck down on a piece gil i don't even know that the defendants can bring an appeal. now, let's let me go back to laura coates real quick here. when you're looking at this candid, can the trump team use this? now, public record in court in front of the jury. can they use some of the language here in front of the jury to try and tate her. >> well, someone argue they wouldn't even have to the jury pool as well versed. and what this news will be. but remember there was no guarantee that fani willis herself would actually be the one to personally try this case, or even nathan wade, you can look at other cases, for example, like with jack smith the likelihood of him actually going before a jury standing there as representative on behalf of the people of the united states was highly unlikely. and so this might be the office that is more broadly tainted. but here's a really important part of this opinion that i am focused on. how big of a role did cash play here? remember about how much cash

she had, whether she would because reimbursing him or not, the principle of going dutch, whether they were taking trips who paid back? cool. the judge goes to the heart of all of this and actually says more broadly that whole theory that the defect that being people bringing this motion wanted to raise is that look, there was a financial incentive here supposing that these two, nathan, wade and fani willis were in some sort of a romantic relationship and looking to prolong it to one capitalize on the income generated. and number two, to be able to have some cover for their relationship. the judge did not buy it on more than one occasion. the judge points of his notion on the one hand, a bad financial incentives that neither party, nathan wade, or fani willis typically came in as destitute was the word they used, the idea of having to prove that the pool of money that was coming in was the only source of income to be used to these different adventures with some of the judge took issue with also that the defendants argue at the financial

arrangement created an incentive to prolong this case, but in fact, there is no indication of that, and he says that indeed the record is quite the contrary. think back to that moment that we all remember when fani willis first decided that she was going to make public this case and going forward, remember how long she said she wanted to trial date? she said six months from now, people almost gov fought in the room thinking, is she and saying he's going to have a six month from now trial date on a co-defendant case that includes donald trump, while that actually a nerd to her benefit here, the judge saying, if she wanted to prolong it, then why would she have asked for all of these quick turnarounds? why has there been the diligence to do this so quickly? and why has the focus ben on bringing this case to trial various swiftly. so in reality, you got to go back in time, not just to the last couple of months of this trial on these hearings but all of the cumulative aspects of her efforts as a prosecutor and remember, although at the trial, the prosecution will have the burden of proof in this instance, it was the

defense attorneys bringing the motion. the judge did not feel they met their burden, and that is very telling >> it is it's a big win for fani willis and for her office with bruises, basically, she gets to go forward and we can't reiterate that enough, but there's a lot written here. that really goes after her okay. we're going to i'm going to say hello to you because apparently you know, somebody i don't so much. all the time. and all the voices in my back to business. >> let's get over to nick valencia. he's on the ground in georgia and nic width, you is an attorney presented kenneth chesebro, one of the people originally charged alongside donald trump by the district attorney, kenneth chesebro, who then event then went on to plead guilty to avoid trial >> that's right. and we're still standing by for comments from defense attorneys in this

case. so repartee presenting current defendants were waiting for steven sadow, the president of the former president's attorney, as well as ashleigh merchant, who is the attorney, the defense attorney who first launched these bombs shell claims have we're joined now by scott grub man. he represented ken chesebro during the course of his portion of the trial. we've yet to hear from defense attorneys. what is your reaction? immediate reaction to what you've read so far? disorder, scott, i'm disappointed. quite frankly, this is an order where i think the judge makes clear that not only did the district attorney's office use horrible judgment, but he basically said they lie. not they the district attorney lives. >> so how does the case go on like this with that cloud over the district attorney's office. >> i'll answer it. this with the question. if you were being charged with a crime that could land you in prison for a decade plus. and this was happening. would you feel like you were getting a fair shake? no, of course you wouldn't. and so i would be very disappointed if i were in the case. i think there's gonna be a possibility of an attempt to do an

interlocutory appeal. what does that mean? >> that means go immediately to the appellate courts. typically, a defendant has to wait until the end of the case to bring up all the errors on appeal. but there's an opportunity good day in some cases to go immediately to the court of appeals. so that's what you anticipate is an immediate appeal from these defense attorney. it's >> discretionary, so, judge mcafee would have to allow the defense lawyers to do it. i'm going to anticipate you'll probably see a motion coming soon. and my guess is that judge mcafee probably would be inclined to let them the because here's the situation. if you don't let them appeal, and then three years from now when the case is over, it turns out judge mcafee got this wrong. the cases coming back. >> so let's pick up on that thought. >> is this a victory for the justice system, or is this a loss in your eyes? >> this is a huge loss to the justice system with all due respect. to judge mcafee. i don't see how you could say that it is clear that these folks lie, that there's an appearance of impropriety, and yet in order to make it all go

away, all that has to happen is nathan wade has to withdraw from the case. i understand that donald trump might not be a very popular person, but constitutional rights it's do not depend on popularity. >> it doesn't. in fact, constitutional rights are meant to protect the unpopular the most. and so i think this is not a good day for joe justice. i respectfully do not believe judge mcafee got it right and we will see what happens next. so on that, what happens next? do you anticipate because prior which of these allegations being brought forward, we were on pace. it seemed for a start in august of this trial. do you think that the district attorney's office can get back on track to get a trial before in november election? no, i don't think there will be a trial before november and to be clear, personally, i don't think donald trump will ever be on trial. the criminal trial before for the november election. i don't think any of these cases are just moving in that direction. and this case particularly if the defendants asked for an interlocutory

appeal and judge mcafee if he grants it. well, that delays the case for months, if not longer, and i don't think there's any chance that this case goes to trial before november's so what i'm hearing is even though there is a victory for the district attorney's office. these allegations they worked in a sense because they delayed a case that was kind of on a fast-track for an august trial. >> yeah. i mean, i could see some people people arguing that. i mean, i wouldn't use the word delay. i would use you have to ensure that these defendants are being given due process. and but yes, the effect of it was to extend the time period. and so some might argue that even though it might be a loss because the motion was for all intents and purposes, denied. it, at least kick the can down the road. important question how do you reconcile what scott mcafee, the judge in this case did earlier this week by dismissing those six charges that had to do with the violation of oath of office by a public official. and then this ruling here, it's almost as though he gave a victory. defense attorneys on wednesday and then sort shut the door on them on friday. >> welcome to our world. this is what judges do. they love to

split them maybe they loved to make it so that kinda no one's happy, but no one's at mad. and i think that's what judge mcafee did here. i'm sure he did it because he felt those were the the proper rulings for all of these. but he did split the baby and even though at the end of this decision, you're going to see granted and pardon denied. and part i'm just here to say the dq motion was denied. clearly, the da's office is simply going to ask nathan wade to step aside and they're gonna be able to pursue this case. >> does this muddy the waters? in this case now that judge mcafee has opened himself up to the most criticism, he's seen so far since he's taken this case on. >> yeah. >> i mean, look, the water was already so muddy. i don't know how could get muddier, but it does mean one of the water. and here's the thing, just because this motion was denied, doesn't mean these great defense lawyer, steve sadow, ashleigh merchant, et cetera, aren't going to be able to to use some of these allegations at trial if we ever get to trial as part of a defense. and so these are really good lawyers and i don't think the

battle is over legally if but yeah, obviously, it is a disappointment and it seems to have fizzled out at this point >> last question, nathan wade, it seems fani willis can proceed td with this case alone. is nathan wade steps aside. how soon do you see that happening? how fast does that happen? >> if i if i were found if i were fani willis, of course, a bottle fani willis, i wouldn't have done any of the things she did to get myself in this situation. i would say the nathan, hey, it's been a good fight. you need to hand me your letter record, resignation now, so we i can get this case back on track. but then again, fani willis and my personal opinion has continued to display very bad judgment and just conduct on becoming a i'm an elected official. so what i would do is not necessarily what she would do. >> sure. but she gets to stay on this case. bottom line, a win for her. scott ghraieb, man. thank you so much for taking the time with cnn. important inside from a man who faced off against fani willis in the district attorney's office fani willis going to be allowed to stay on this case, guys. >> all right. thank you. nick

valencia, you just heard it's gotten rubbing the attorney for kenneth chesebro, jesper or who has already put in a guilty plea. so that case is over, but he's talking about what the attorneys may do going forward. right. and was very clear, brought up your point, interlocutory, your favorite word of the day are going to most likely try to get that appeal on the books right now, right soon as possible. so little bit of >> breaking news, if a great interview by nick there, the defendants, it appears will be or intend to file for permission to appeal now, because ordinarily, if you appeal as a defendant, you have to wait till after your trial is over. but in certain rare circumstances, you can get permission to file interlocutory media meaning now, meaning before trial, it sounds like the defendants will do that if they are granted permission to file that appeal. now, that will certainly further postpone this and the lawyer made an important point. the reason they might be given one of the reasons they might be given permission to file an appeal now is the worst-case scenario for everybody for our

justice system, for the prosecutors, for the defendants, is this case goes forward, it results in convictions and then a year from now, two years from now, a court of appeal says that was an error. the whole things out the window, so they may get a chance to appeal. now, that'll be up in the first instance to the judge to judge mcafee, whether he lets them appeal. now michael moore is still with us. michael judge mcafee has got a grant the appeal if he's going to grant it on what basis? what would he say? he say wait a second. i'm going to allow you to appeal because i got this ruling that i just wrote wrong. how does that work for a judge? >> no. i mean, >> it is discretized down his part whether or not he gives them a certificate for review and immediate review. >> and that >> suddenly appellate court would consider i don't know that it's likely, but i will tell you remembering the order that he issued earlier in the week where he threw out to six counts the judge said, if the state wants to have an interlocutory appeal on this and taken up now i'm likely to agree with that. so he may be

thinking, well, let's make sure we've got everything cleaned up and spit shined off before we get too far along in the case. the appellate court look at these issues and satisfy everybody so we can move ahead. so you may not be totally opposed to it. i would say typically this would not be the kind of issue that would go up on an interlocutory appeal. it's not dispositive of the case. these are not things that are outside the purview of the trial judge that is, he's to determine credibility of witnesses whose tell the truth about the version of events and that type of thing? and so you usually wouldn't see that, but in a case of this magnitude, he may be inclined to i guess, err on the side of caution if you will, or lean on the side of caution and lead a review in court, looked at it just to make sure that everything lines up and sorted to put the issue to bed once once and for all right. >> michael, thank you. stick with us. la stick with us. >> we're going to take a quick

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this ruling. let's get right to paula read on what's in there. and i think maybe the thinking from scott mcafee, the judge surrounded thank you, paula. >> yeah. let's take a step back and talk about this, judge. this judge is in his early 30s. he's been on the bench for barely over a year, and then he's handled this incredibly high stakes case. and then before the case, you can kids underway. here's to handle this massive decision about whether to disqualify the district attorney. and there has been lot of praise for how the judge has conducted himself throughout these hearings. these are televised, so people can see, you know, every comment, every pretty good job now in terms of this opinion, a lot of folks are going to have i'll things to say about how he handled it this final decision. but speaking with one source who has worked on the defensive side of this case, the source said, quote, it's a very well-reasoned order. mcafee continues to impress as a judge, and they said that he has managed to navigate the many nuanced issues here and

arrive at what is probably the see many trump-aligned lawyers say that on camera, but it speaks to the high stakes here. the lack of this individual's experience has not prevented him from navigating this in a way that at least some people close to the defense team says, look, this was the right result. so he again did the fact that he has a case like this after being on the bench for less than a year, what a daunting task. and today, it's interesting because we were wondering what he was going to say because of the past few days, he's given interviews highly unusual for a judge overseeing the case of this nature to give press interviews. and i was wondering when he kept saying, i make my decisions regardless of politics, i wondered, okay, he's clearly trying to get out in front of whatever he's going to decide. what is it that he's trying to say, but he is an elected judge? he will have to run for the seat. he will have a challenger. so it appears that he's just trying to tell the voters, like look, politics had nothing to do with the conclusion that i arrived at here, but he is definitely a key player. i know we've talked about the district

attorney about former president trump. well, let's not forget about the judge, arguably the biggest decision he's had to make so far in his career. >> and maybe for quite some time and he's getting and this is definitely very clearly thrown him into the spotlight. it's really interesting. let's get over to kristen holmes right now. she's got some new reporting coming in. does the trump team reacting, kristen? so in terms of the trump team, the campaign, the political arm, donald trump himself, we haven't heard, but we have heard now from donald trump's lawyer in the fulton county case, steve sadow and this is what he said. he said while respecting the court's decision, we believe that the court did not afford appropriate significance to the prosecutorial misconduct of willis and wade, including the financial benefits, testifying untruthful about when their personal relationship began, as well as willis extra judicial mlk, quote, church speech, where she played the race card and falsely accused the defendants and their counsel of racism will use all legal options available as we continue to fight to end this case, which should have never been brought in the first place. so obviously he they're

saying that they are going to continue to fight. they're likely to issue some kind of appeal to this. >> i >> do want to say one thing about donald trump, his team, and messaging for the political side of this. yes, possibly this could be construed as a win for fani willis because she gets to stay on the case. but having cover donald trump for a very long time and seeing how he spins messaging and how he takes control of a narrative and how he hangs onto one or two lines of truth to blow up an entire story that his supporters believe this is a scathing report that you can imagine his political team is going to hang off of calling fani willis. that she behaved in appropriately saying she crossed the line, saying that nathan wade has to get off the case. these are all things that you're going to hear from donald trump, from his surrogates, from his campaign as they work to make this political, they will hang off of all of the language in this it's text regardless of fani

willis being able to stay on the case if nathan wade gets off the case, but that's going to be their messaging and it is likely with his supporters to be effective because again, this is, uh, judge's ruling. it's what they're going to be drawing from as he continues to campaign, as he continues to paint all of this as political all of this as people out to get him. now he has additional language in a ruling from a judge that essentially says that fani willis acted appropriately, and that is something they are going to beat down over and over again as we head into november and no doubt. >> thank you so much, kristen holmes, we'll come back to you as soon as you get more reaction. i want to go to our laura coates, our chief legal analysts for us laura, there's something in here that speaks to what we just heard from kristen holmes. and this is going to be used politically to beat people over the head width, right? one one of the things that will almost certainly come up is this speech that fani willis made in

front of a congregation after the pretrial motion was filed, where it appears she was talking about the attorneys and she brought race into it. explain what the judge said about that particular incident. >> well, this was a really important moment in the closing arguments made by defense counsel, particularly for donald trump, about this church speech. we actually have the sound of what he's talking. let's play it quickly so we can orient ourselves one white room in green booing in a higher one bland. >> another superstar a great friend and agreed. first thing they say oh, she on play the race car >> she of course was called to task on this very point by the attorneys were bringing this motion saying that she was playing the race card and trying to take the jury pool. now, the judge looked at this

particular moment it happened in january earlier this year and said, the effect of this speech was to cast racial aspersions at an indicted defendants decision to file this pretrial motion. but here is the thing he went on to try to evaluate whether in fact a jury pool could have been tainted in this way by these statements. and he said, look, they didn't mention any defendant by name and email. there could be intimations and it was not improvised. that was a big point from and the defense counsel saying there was some forethought and actually drafting this, making a public statement about an ongoing case. but he said she did not disclose sensitive or confidential evidence yet to be revealed or admitted at trial. and the case, this is an important part, is too far removed from jury selection. then to establish a permanent taint of the jury pool. that is a really important point here as we all look at the idea of the appearance of conflict of interests are what impact would ultimately have. it doesn't mean that the defense is not going to try to use this and capitalize on an opportunity to

say at maybe at the wadi or stays at the jury pool has been impacted. but the judge also fast even though did not rise the level of a disqualification , he called it still legally improper and has now invited a motion to then have a public, essentially gag order on being able to make statements, pretrial publicly. again, but it's also another point and 42 point here, as she mentioned, that she referred to him as the black man speaking about nathan wade, there was a moment when her own testimony got under the skin of the judge, in particular, for call that she was defiant. she was confrontational to the motion and the attorney who was bringing this, she said she was eager, even ran to the courtroom out-of-breath at first to try to make the point i've testifying well, during that particular exchange, she made the point that this whole motion and the experience beit all ben through made the bond between herself and nathan wade stronger than ever, used the word cemented. now, that

combined with nathan wade's explanation about his divorce, remember the moment he said well, he wasn't technically married. that all conversation that is until his last child went to college based on a prior infidelity discussion that they weren't technically married, any longer before his own eyes, even if before the law, the judge combine those two things. the stronger than ever relationship this cemented relationship along with what he called an unpersuasive testimony to call into question gen. what would happen in the future for the perception of this jury. so this judge, he has taken a really 360 view. he was clearly listening to each and every aspect of these hearings to try to figure out what should be the right result? at this point in time, you know, politically, i may remember how much hay was made about robert hur's statement that one line about joe biden, a sympathetic, well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory will have a report like this, been confined to one sentence. i would suspect to be doing

cartwheels in the da's office it wasn't it is ripe with and full of references to their credibility full of references to what he perceives as a lapse of judgment. but at the end of the day, she is an elected official and the proton county people have her there. will she be primaried? that'll be the biggest test of all at the end of the day, she's also going to try this case because you have a decision to make. either she tries it and stays or she keeps nathan wade and i think that decision is probably pretty office. >> and again, i do think we should reiterate based on i think how we are all pointing out the language in this ruling, the breaking news is that fani willis can stay on the case. yeah. it has not been disqualified. and if you want to get a sense of whether that's a win or a loss for her. it's donald trump's lawyer that slam the judge. >> are kristen holmes, >> just reported that steven sadow, so the judge did not afford appropriate significance of the prosecutorial misconduct of willis so trump's legal team, not happy with this, that being said, elie honig, you've been pouring through this

ruling. >> so if on the da taking this as a win, it is a win. she has survived. that is the most important thing here. i'd be breathing a sigh of relief, but sarah earlier is that there's some bruising involved wow. is there some bruising? let me just give you the seven. i think most severe lines and these are really serious findings by the judge about the da. and these are all verbatim from the opinion. first of all, there's a significant appearance of impropriety that infects the prosecution team second, a tremendous lack in judgment. third, the unprofessional manner of the da's testimony fourth, the odor of men udacity remains. i google men udacity. it means lion 30 new order that fifth the legally improper speech that was made in the church that laura just talk about legally improper with the effect to cast racial >> aspersions on the defendants. sixth, the da has created dangerous waters for

the da, wade further into. and finally, i think this is the most damning. there are reasonable questions about whether the da testified truthfully, any one of these statements by a judge would be a career ender for a normal prosecutor to have an on the record of finding that there are reasonable questions about whether you lied under oath. that would be that would be devastating and we'll see what the political effects will be. the bottom line, the da survived, but not without serious bruising to use your analogy, sir, let's come back. >> michael moreno, bring it back in. i would get reaction to the response from the from trump's lead defense counsel see you say stephen, say it out to this ruling while respecting the court's decision, he then says, we believe that the court did not afford appropriate significance to the prosecutorial misconduct of willis and wade goes on to say, but also then concludes, we will use all legal options available as we continue to fight to end this case, which should never have been brought in the first place. what do you hear when you hear that from his attorney >> what it tells me he's

probably in the middle of drafting and interlocutory of neil motion. and that is to move enough, but that's certainly a legal option that he has and he knows oh, but also create some amount of delay. and the language about whether or not the court gave sufficient weight to them yes. or get consideration to that. that's the language you would put in your motion. so it wouldn't surprise me to see whether or not judge mcafee agrees or whether or not the court would hear it. that's another that will be another issue, but certainly this is something and a tool they have that they could, they could move forward with the one thing i will say is heard ellie say that it would end careers for prosecutors i tell young lawyers when i'm speaking to you, you could spend your entire career trying to catch up if you ever lose credibility with the court. and this sure seems like the judges is not happy with the credibility representations made by the da i'm just saying michael moore, great to see you. thank you so much for jumping on and helping us through all of this in this breaking news, sallie ten seconds or less, anything in this writing that mcafee is

asking are leaving a roadmap for appeal here so i think he's giving them the option to appeal and i think he says yes, if you want to take it up, i think he's signaling he will let them and take it up and i think there will be more to say about this, but i do think this really will withstand appeal and he's the person that's going to have to decide whether this goes forward. so we'll have to wait and see. thank you so much for joining. this is amazing. they're not going to appeal you this is obviously breaking news happening now. this has been seeing a new central jim acosta with newsroom is coming right up next with more backroom deals. cia secrets, affairs, >> bribery, corruption, prostitution there's so much more to the store. >> united states of scandal with jake tapper sunday at nine on cnn does not the bell on the subway series, foot-long, except we add on all new foot-long zach kick. we're talking about $2 foot-long to row three foot long pretzel, kind of $5 footlong cookie.

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