unfortunately joined 43 additional us citizens that were killed on october 7, and i would hope that the us public, imam is the fact that 44 citizens were killed by hamas, isis. and justice needs to be seen on that point >> ruby, i mean, i just there's no words and there's not really much that we can say if i am grateful that you're able to come on and talk about this. and also of course, to talk about your son and his memory thank you. >> good evening >> just one last note. ruby also reminded us who he's always carrying around an hourglass. he's been carrying it around since october 7. >> he >> said that on their way back to israel, their last trip, that it broke, that the sand leaked out of it and it was a few hours later they got that call, that knock on the door from the idf telling them about their son. of course, we hope that his memory is always a blessing, will continue to follow this very important story. thankhank you so much fo

joining us tonight. a news night with abby. phillip starts now the gop is once again the dog >> that caught the car are the consequences? this could be far-reaching for millions of women that's tonight on this side good evening. >> i'm abby phillip in new york tonight. you might just get what you ask for. republicans are re-learning that lesson today. arizona supreme court, a court made up of all republican appointees have ruled in a four to two decision that physicians are now on notice that all abortions, except those necessary to save a woman's life are illegal. that decision and the timing is truly stranger than fiction. it happened just a day after donald trump said, leave it to the states to make up their

minds on abortion now, the country has first-hand evidence of what exactly 50 state patchwork approach to abortion would actually look like. the gsp spent 50 years trying to eradicate roe versus wade. but now that they have the aftermath isn't pleasant and only now that the electoral consequences of all of this are becoming more clear, republicans are acknowledging that laws like the one on the books in arizona, simply are not good ones. that arizona law, it's not just decades old. it is generation's old it is nearly 160 years old lawmakers wrote it in 18, when arizona was not even a state, when abraham lincoln was still alive, when professional baseball did not exist. when jules verne wrote journey to the center of the earth. when manet painted one of his most famous works that law is a literal antique but republicans

worried about what a total ban means for their electoral futures. >> their >> now refurbishing their positions look no further than kari lake. she's the republican nominee for the senate in arizona lake. tonight says, i oppose today's ruling lake back in to that 2022 says the law was great >> i'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already on the books. i believe it's ars 133603. so it will prohibit abortion in arizona except to save the life of a mother >> republicans realized that there are very real ramifications for what arizona's court just did because they have seen this movie before in other places. >> on the map. when abortion was on the ballot, republicans lose even in places where they otherwise might win places like ohio, kentucky, virginia places where they ended up losing in

2023. and it's going to be on the ballot again this november in 2024, already voters will decide directly on abortion in florida in maryland, in new york, and an eight other states, activists want to put it on the ballot, including right there in arizona the point here after five decades of pining for a decision like dobbs republicans got the grrrl, their dreams. and now it's turned into a bad romance, one that may ultimately cost them their jobs and put the lives of millions of women in limbo joining us now is arizona democratic senator eva burt. she is a nurse practitioner as well. and last month, you may remember she appeared right here on this show to talk about this floor speech that was heard all around the country she explained that she wanted a pregnancy, but it would not progress and that she would need to get an abortion, which she has since received. listen >> i don't think people should

have to justify their abortions, but i'm choosing to talk about why i made this decision. because i want us to be able to have meaningful conversations about the reality of how the work that we do in this body impacts people in the real-world >> state senator birch, thanks for joining us again. when this law goes into effect, no abortion is going to be allowed except to save the life of a mother with the penalty of fines, even jail times for the provider you are a nurse practitioner, you've seen both sides of this. what does this mean? practically for health care providers in your state? >> well, it's really upsetting and confusing for health care providers who obviously have to now make impossible decisions because what we really do in these situations is muddy the waters and is this patient close enough to death that we can consider administering this type of care in giving this kind of procedure that's a ridiculous question for a provider to have to answer. and

if we look at just my own situation, i would not have been able to get the treatment that i had only less than three weeks ago. i had that procedure, but this is the same thing that we're seeing. again, this happened two years ago where abortion clinic shutdown all across the state of arizona and our republican lawmakers have pad plenty of time and opportunity to repeal this banned from the 1800s and have chosen not to act. >> and as we just heard some of them, just a couple of years ago were saying that it was a great law. the democratic state attorney general, kris mayes, has the full power to enforce abortion laws thanks to an executive order from your state's governor, katie hobbs. >> but >> mayes has vowed not to enforce any abortion law, especially not this one but couldn't that decision essentially be challenged by local attorneys and basically create chaos in your state well i will tell you i'm not a lawyer, but i am certain that they're going to be a number of challenges that we're going

to see in the coming weeks. we only have a two-week stay on this 1800s band before it goes into effect. but we have been talking about this band and this band has been being litigated for much longer than two weeks. and so any effort by the courts to try to reverse or to alter this decision is going to take longer than that. and so we really need to have some sort of legislative action. now, in order to be able to protect this right for patients and arizona and to your point, i mean, this is going to be something that will affect women very. very soon if it's allowed to go into effect but you've also been urging your state to support a potential ballot member measure for later in november, the advocates who are working on this ballot measure say they have more than 500,000 signatures as well over the threshold that they would need to get on the ballot how confident are you that this will make it onto the ballot and that ultimately voters will side in favor of abortion rights

>> i feel really confident i have a lot of security and i have a lot of peace in my heart that this is a measure that's going to make its way to the ballot. i think that the reason though that this is necessary in the first place and why it's so important for people to really get politically engaged people to come out and for people to vote is that even if the legislature does take some kind of action, they have been slowly eroding these rights for decades. and we cannot trust the anything that we do in the next two weeks and the legislature is going to hold for any significant period of time, what we need to do is elected democrats up and down the ticket from the presidency down to our state legislatures. and what we need to do is come and vote in november and make sure that this ballot initiative gets the attention it deserves and passes you heard there kari lake's switch on this issue. she's not the only republican arizona and expressing suddenly dismay over this court decision why do you think that they're saying that after years really, i'm trying to restrict abortion access where this was pretty much the explicit goal so this is an

obvious transparent politically expedient act of desperation when we see these >> republicans who are flip-flopping on their position and now suddenly they're horrified. what we need to keep in mind is that the legislature has been in session for months. and at any time legislature could have repealed this ban and aza, a matter of fact, representative stall hamilton in the arizona house had put forward a bill to repeal the ban and they wouldn't even give it a committee hearing. and when we tried to bring legislation forward to talk about the right of contraception, they wouldn't even give it a committee hearing and they wouldn't let us vote on it on the floor so we know what they're coming for next. so i think that while we might see some politicians trying to turn around because of the political consequences that they're experiencing. we have decades of history and of voting records and of statements to back up the fact that we can't trust them in any action that they take, and that we really have to take

this into our own hands. we have to take this to the ballot box. it's our only option. >> all right state senator eva berge. thank you very much for joining us tonight >> thanks for having me and tonight. country constitution, the high court, and the service members who might be caught in the middle former generals and admirals are taking the dramatic step of submitting a brief to the justices outlining how making president's absolutely immune would quote threaten the military's role in in american society. that doesn't plus officials say that if the court sides, it's with the former president, they will forever alter the meaning of the oath that every single service member takes to defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic by obeying potentially illegal orders from a president of the united states the former high-ranking officials envision a future where service members will be placed in the impossible position of having to choose

between following their commander in chief and obeying the laws that were enacted by congress chris the list of notable names attached to this briefing is not short. several retired generals or retired admiral, a former cia director, and also my next guest, louise caldera. he served as the secretary of the army under president clinton. sir, thank you very much for staying with us tonight. it is highly unusual visual to see these kinds of officials, military officers, and others former ones weighing in on a politically charged issue, like this. why did you decide to do it? >> thank you for having me it is very unusual. and the reason is because the stakes are so high for our national security and for our military if they weren't, i don't think you would see this kind of brief, but a brief like this is a brief to the court as an amicus brief means a friend of the court bringing to the justices

attention matters that they may not be expert in. no member of the supreme court's served in the military. and so to increase their understanding of the nature of our military, its foundations, how it operates, and what the implications of finding seeing that a president would be immune from criminal actions. and we think it would have disastrous effect on our national security, including for the reasons you mentioned would put military personnel in a terrible position lot to do the i mean, the reality is is that there's a possibility the next president of the united states could be donald trump if that's the case, what are you most afraid of? >> well, it's not just about donald trump because if the justices say that this is the law of the land that the president can violate criminal laws as long as he has some rationalization of why he thinks it's in the country's best interests and one thing we know about former president

trump is that he can ride i shall eyes. everything is perfect and in the country's best interests, when it's really about his own political interests or personal financial interests as if that's all it takes for a president to be able to violate the laws of the united states. and his own lawyers in the argument before the court of appeals, were asked, does this mean that he could order the military to assassinate his political rivals? and their answer in the end was yes. well, the president is not the one who's going to pull the trigger. he's going to order the military to do such an action or he might order the military to quash the constitutional rights, rights of americans who are protesting as they have a right to do, whether they there protesting for racial equality or whether they're protesting against abortion rights americans have the right to protest. and yet he wanted to use the military to quash these

protests that's a violation of the posse comitatus act, which says you cannot use the military for civilian law enforcement purpose and we have these laws for a reason. >> yeah. exactly. i mean, i think that's such an important point, but i do want to play for you what former defense secretary mark esper said about this on cnn earlier today? >> i would prefer her to see retired admirals and generals not get involved in these issues. it's not even worth kind of talking about. it's just ridiculous >> he called it just ridiculous. what's your reaction to that? >> well, i well, i think he's just wrong and in fact his situation really illustrates our point is that to have that in our country, we have civilian control. the military, that is the military's responsive to the president as commander in chief and two civilians like mark esper, who are appointed to run the department of defense. but they have to work hand in glove with

military leaders some of whom have spent 30, 40 years in uniform. steeped in military affairs, dedicated their lives to defending our country. and that, and they've ultimately follow the directions the civilians, because that's the way our constitution was set up. but that only works if you have deep trust between the civilians and the military leaders that we have one purpose to defend the constitution, to defend the country, to be apolitical, to stand up for the rule of law. and if the president transmits orders that say violate the law, and then expects the military to violate the law when they've sworn to uphold the constitution and when they can be prosecuted for violating the law. so maybe the president would be immune, not subject to to prosecution, but the military wouldn't, from the generals down to the soldiers, would not be immune from prosecution you should, you put them in a terrible by new destroy the trust that has to exist between civilian and military leaders. you put

military service members in jeopardy that can do nothing. but destroy the bedrock principles on which our military operates. at cars. americans to wonder why they should support our military are asked her sons and daughters to serve when it's being used for political ends it can cheer our enemies in foreign countries that would do us harm because they're sitting there saying this democracy that they keep talking about is, is a figment of imagination. they're president can order the military to do illegal things just like ours can that's not what the founders had in mind when they created our constitution. that's what we're worried about. and because this is such a serious subject is why people overcome their hesitancy to involve themselves in these kinds of matters and say, wait, this is just wrong for our country. it's wrong for a military. it's wrong for the role that our country should play in the world defending democracy,

defending the rule of law not violating the rule of law. >> and if you've spent any time around people who were at the highest levels of the military. you understand how hesitant as you put it, they are to weigh in on matters like this. so it is extraordinary that they have from our army secretary caldera. i thank you very much for speaking with us tonight. >> thank you, abby >> i'm breaking tonight. president biden with his most direct criticism of israel, yet since the war started. but he's calling a mistake and outrageous and i'll speak live with a jewish war reporter who says, israel is committing crimes. plus justin rfk's running mate says that she received a letter from a democratic congressman calling on her to quit the ticket because it hurts biden. that congressman will join me to respond this is new side laura coates live tonight at 11 eastern on cnn of

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>> tonight, it seems very much that president biden has had enough at least enough of israel's benjamin netanyahu in one of his most forceful criticisms, yet of the prime minister, biden calls netanyahu's approach to this war on hamas a mistake. he calls the deadly strike on the aid convoy outrageous. i think calls for israel to accept a six-week ceasefire to get more food and medicine then into gaza. in fact, he says, there is no excuse now, this, of course comes as more civilians die by israel's bombings and outrage from around the world grows in fact, one american senator is now saying that

israel's actions amount to genocide if you want to do it as an application of law, to leave them find if can assign >> ample evidence do so >> today before congress, the secretary of defense, though, he dismissed that claim is israel committing genocide in gaza? >> senator cotton, i we don't have any evidence of genocide to have been created that's a no, israel is not committing genocide in gaza. we don't have evidence for that >> my next guest is a veteran war correspondent who has seen his share of horrors on the front line. peter moss covered the genocide in bosnia for the washington post. he wrote a book called loved i neighbor, a story of war about that conflict he also reported from iraq and afghanistan and other war torn countries peter must

also has this unique perspective of being an ancestor to key funders of jewish immigration to then british palestine. that area that ultimately would become the state of israel now, all of that combined makes the opinion piece that he wrote for today's washington post. incredibly timely and interesting. quote, i'm jewish and i've covered wars. i know war crimes when i see them even more provocative than that is what he says potentially about this charge of war crimes. peter moss joins us. now. peter, you've said that you think is is guilty of crimes. but on the charge of genocide do you consider a genocide? >> i don't know for sure. i don't think anybody can say for sure. i mean, what i can say, having covered the war, bosnia genocide and bosnia as adjudicated and decided by an international tribunal is that there's a lot of evidence that suggests that this does reach the level of genocide legally, which is defined as an attempt

to destroy in whole or in part a group of people, ethnic, racial, religious. but i'm not a lawyer. >> but what do you think is the strongest evidence broadly speaking. >> broadly speaking, i think it is the vast number of civilian casualties. i mean, there have been so far, i think and, 30,000 civilians killed in six months more than 13,000 children killed in six months. and this is a toll that actually, when you're looking at just children killed is several times higher than what i saw and reported on in bosnia, which was a four-year long war. and there were somewhere around 568 while some children killed in those four years. so it's civilian casualties, it's the what appears to be lack of regard for protecting them, which is actually the duty in war time of a military. >> so i just wanted to clarify one thing because the 30 plus it's more than 30,000 at this point. but that number is not differentiating between hamas war fighters and civilians. we

should be clear about that. that's generally agreed upon number from the gaza health ministry, but just on this question here of that definition of war crimes that used summarized 18 back, he's an israeli human rights lawyer who represents palestinians actually who were harmed by israeli security forces here's what he wrote in a piece about this idea of genocide. he says civilians in gaza are killed, not because israel specifically targets them, but because of the extensive hamas military infrastructures that are located near inside civilian buildings. and in the tunnels beneath them. he makes that point and also know what's that the standard isn't just the number of killed, but the intent do you think that there is an intent on the part of the israeli government to eradicate the palestinian people >> i think it's not clear yet, but what i think is that there is enough evidence to justify investment let's take actions by prosecutors, by duly

authorized prosecutors to look into this question to determine yes. is their intent i mean, we of course, have heard various different speeches from different israeli government officials, from israeli soldiers, et cetera. that are very chilling with respect to intent. but does that reach the threshold that's necessary? again, this should be in the hands of prosecutors. let them decide and the people who debate about it, i guess i'm one of them. that's all fine and good, but it's not for us to decide and it does i'm like there's enough evidence to justify real investigations. >> you mentioned in your piece this incredibly disturbing video that we reported on your at cnn of a palestinian grandmother who was walking with her grandson in that video. you can see there will play it for you she's walking. that child who i think is maybe five years old, is holding a white flag and is waving it as she walks. she is eventually shot by israeli apparently by

israeli forces. now what's notable about this is that this was a very public incident supposed to have been investigated, but you also compare it to sniper fire that you witnessed in the conflicts that you've covered. i think in bosnia >> what is the >> difference between perhaps a rogue maybe this is the argument could be this is a rogue idf officer made that call and something that is that rises to the level of genocide, a targeted attack are repeated targeted attacks on civilians. >> that is what a full investigation with participation of the israeli side would hopefully establish the video that you saw very similar to things that i saw myself in bosnia. i mean, i stayed in a frontline hotel in theory evo we're there was constant sniper fire and i saw somebody gets shot rendering is my window wrote about it >> a civilian >> no doubt about it. and this was a regular regular occurrence and we have a

sufficient number of videos of not just that incident, but other incidents that indicate that civilians are getting targeted in ways that are frankly obviously disturbing. is this systemic is this something that rises to the level of intent on the rayleigh government's part that's what the international tribunals established in bosnia. and it was necessary for them to exist and to go through this very long process of investigating these cases. and so to answer your question, i mean, that's something i can give an opinion about. anybody can give an opinion about. but to get to the bottom of it, i think everybody should support the idea of actually handing this over and having everybody cooperate not just with investigating israeli war crimes, but also on october 7, war crimes committed by hamas as well. you understand that there are many people who described this is a blood libel and you're jewish yourself when you hear that, what do you think >> i don't understand how that could be addressed to me? i'm somebody who has i know about war crimes. i've covered war crimes, i've seen war crimes.

i don't speak about war crimes lightly and i don't have any interest in saying that israel has committed war crimes without there being a sufficient factual basis to it. i am jewish. i have relatives who were that my family participated very actively in the foundation of israel so people can say that and i've gotten pushback on social media about that to me, it discredits them, not me >> all right. peter mass. thank you very much. interesting conversation. >> thank you. >> next, rfk juniors running mate is accusing a democratic congressman of privately supporting her. run. and then telling her to quit the ticket, will speak with that congressman bro cauda about the accusations snacks wolf blitzer, tomorrow with six on cnn >> on till you can put that right in the dishwasher >> watch me with cascade

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>> it's done i mean, a greater chocolate shop wonky rated pg, now streaming exclusively on macs >> just in tonight, a surreal story from the the world of politics. the running mate for rfk junior is publicly revealing that she received a letter from democratic congressman ro khanna, nicole shanahan says the cauda is asking her to step down from the ticket because his candidacy hurts president biden's chances. shanahan says, in part, rho encouraged me to run that it's wrong for anyone to threaten me against running. she goes on to say clearly row has changed his stance based on pressure from his party that it's anti-democratic. i'm very disappointed that he has been pressured into issuing this letter to me publicly he could have called me privately. now, the congressman is here with us tonight and he joins me to respond in a moment.

>> but >> first, remember a campaign official for rfk said her number one priority is to prevent biden from winning. and tonight's cnn's kfile reports that rita palma attended a stop the steal rally, including the rally that preceded the capital insurrection. she also is posted praise for trump including the hope that he wins in 2024 and that he's her favorite president. she says congressman ro khanna joins me now, congressman, we have this letter. we just received it that you set to nicole shanahan. what did you say to her? >> well, a guy unknown nicole shanahan and for years, she has been a supporter. i would say she's an acquaintance and we've shared a common issues around the climate, common issues around reproductive rights. and when she called me to say that she was going to join robert kennedy's ticket. i said, well they, call why don't you join the democratic coalition, support president biden he will better advance

climate. i understand you have disagreements with the president. i do too. uncertain issues like gaza, but joined the coalition and then i texted her that always respectfully, but i was hoping to make the case that her issues would be better served, joining the coalition so she says that you changed your position that you actually told her that anyone should run and shouldn't be threatened for doing so. she posted a your exchange on x and then you responded to her with a text? they you sent her afterwards. what's your response to her claiming that you're not telling the truth >> well, i don't think she's saying that i didn't say that anyone has the right to run and that no one should threaten her are no one should engage in character assassination offer. and i stand by that. and even in the text, i sent her, i said she has absolutely the right to run and i will never disparage her personally, but i will make the case. i'll making the case tonight. that given the stakes, given her own view and

regenerative agriculture on climate, on reproductive rights how could she aid candidacy? that's simply going to help reelect donald trump. and i want to make the case for her that she'd be better served supporting joe biden >> so by all of this, are you saying that you are worried that an rfk candidacy will end up possible sitting president biden the election >> the president can win regardless, but will it make it harder for the president? absolutely. i mean, i don't think that is revealing any unique math. i mean, the reality is that any third party candidates help donald trump because he cannot get to 50% and so if we lower the ceiling of what he needs to get, it makes it harder for the president to win. do i think the president can overcome that? we can overcome that. and when yes but why diminished the odds and help tilt any advantage to donald trump to think that nicole shanahan is aware of what you are saying

there, that this could end up resulting in a trump a presidency, yet again i don't know. i'd love to have >> that conversation with her publicly. maybe on your show. i mean, the reality issue has been extraordinary and funding regenerative agriculture in places like iowa state she has worked on big climate issues. and so i was perplexed to baffled why she would choose to enter it this time given the stakes that it's a binary choice, ordinarily i understand you want to get your views out. you want to push for reform but i hope she understands that what she is doing a really could put trump back in the white house. and undermine the goals that she believes that i mentioned in two nights reporting that the new york-based rfk junior campaign official michelle she previously promoted these false claims that the 2020 election was rigged and she actually attended the january 6 rally. what's your reaction to that

>> well, it's appalling. look, i used to admire robert kennedy's environmental activism and i just don't understand what he's doing. i mean, denying that january 6 that the people who beat police officers vandalize the building. and we're attacking colleagues of mine while i was in the complex than that that is somehow just a form of protest, which is what he has said and people shouldn't be prosecuted. and then being more to the right way, more to the right than either donald trump or joe biden on unconditional support for netanyahu i mean, i just don't understand what he's trying to achieve >> very interesting, indeed, congressman ro khanna, we would love to have you back on with nicole sham and hand if the two of you would like to have that debate here on the air. thanks for joining us tonight >> thank you, abby >> next outraged tonight over body-camera footage of chicago police firing as many as 96

bullets a man is now dead after a tragic traffic stop. i'll speak to the state's attorney here. plus congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez has a serious warning after discovering deepfake pornography of herself online. we'll discuss that there's debris in this guy that runs husbands and wives gone >> i wish i could've done something differently. you can just make it better for those that follow space total columbia, the final flight, two part finale, sunday at nine on cnn. >> crap. >> now we got to get frehse something. wait. >> we >> could use these new gift mode. >> all right done you have, to do four more who don't would give >> you? >> this is a hot flash this is

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hold after police fired and 96 shots and just 41 seconds at him and his vehicle. now, want to note that the police i say th reed fired thosfirs shots but an investigaon into what exactly happened has not been completed, and i also have to warn you that this is fficult to wat >> one at l. >> we're the window down wha are you dog >> this will not red out one >> don't roll the window, don't roll the window up >> do not ro the window light >>heoors. now locked the doors e door

>> reed's body was later fnd lying face down behindhat vehicle a chaotic scene. well, that left quite a lot of questions and cooks counties cook county's state attorney kim fox joined me right now. state's attorneys fox. thank you very much for joining us. your office i know is investigating this incident for potential prosecution it is ongoing, but what can you tell us at this point? at this point, abbe, it is, as you said, an ongoing investigation that is very early this incident happened 19 days ago. the video having been released today and so what we do know is that this was a traffic stop, or stop? for not wearing a seat belt that led to the death of dexter reed an injury to the chicago police officer. and many questions that need to be answered about the use of force in this case. >> 19 days ago, you say this

occurred when do you think you can expect? i to update the public on a charging decision >> certainly we're in the preliminary stages. we have to look at all of the bodycam video that has been released. there are pod cameras in the neighborhood videos that we will be looking at videos from doorbells in an area. we're also going to be interviewing officers who have been involved, witnesses. there's ballistics and dna and forensics and so realistically, it's going to take us time. we want to be thorough, we want to be complete. and the interest of justice for dexter reed and his family, as well as for the officers who were involved that day. it requires us to be swift and thorough >> absolutely. i just quickly on i know you can't say a whole lot about the case, but were you able to confirm that that officer was was shot from a weapon that was used by dexter reed you know, again, what we

are able to confirm is that there was a shot fired by dexter reed in that vehicle the rest of who shot the officer. how many shots came from the car? those questions will be answered during the course of our investigation. okay. so shot was fired from his weapon is what you're saying here meanwhile, while this is ongoing, family members are obviously devastated and they're calling for charges as you're saying, the investigation needs to play out, what is your message to chicago residents that are really worried about the process, not simply playing out fairly i think chicago residents are all too familiar with incidents of police violence louk while mcdonald >> comes to mind for many folks here in the chicago land area, a part of the reason that we stood together at the press conference with the mayor, the head of our civilian office of

police account ability and my office is two from the very beginning talk about what is happening to be transparent with the public. so that we don't see a repeat in history >> some people may >> not ultimately like whatever outcome comes to play, but we believe that the legitimacy of the outcome requires just to be transparent throughout this process and so i understand the fear. i understand the distrust. there has been a history with policing in chicago. we have a consent decree as a result of the liquid mcdonald's shooting, a finding of unconstitutional policing. and so we have an obligation to do this investigation thoroughly and complete so that everyone those who are in law enforcement and those who have lost a loved one in our communities trust, the legitimacy of this investigation kim fox, cook county state's attorney. thank you very much for joining us >> thank you very much >> and a dire warning from

congresswoman the alexandria ocasio-cortez she has seen ai porn images of herself will discuss the real consequences of all of that >> from friends coming over to mom's coming over so many ways to save life, ready while it happy, that's 3605 by whole foods market i met with the turbotax expert because i had

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now become the target of an alarming and a graphic online phenomenon. in a new interview with rolling stone, the democratic congresswoman is sharing the nightmare of discovering ai generated pornographic images of herself on x she says, as a survivor of physical sexual assault, it adds a level of dysregulation. there are certain images that don't leave a person. it's not as imaginary as people want to make it seem it has real effects, not just on the people who are victimized by it, but on the people who see it and consume it unfortunately aoc is not alone. she says that one study shows 96% of deepfake videos or ai generated images using people's real faces and identities are non consensual and sexually explicit. and by the way, all of them are aimed at women joining me now is a veteran tech reporter, lauri segall is also the ceo of mostly human immediate company that focuses on official

intelligence. laurie good to see you on this horrible topic this deepfake horn phenomenon. it's becoming more popular online, but it's also easier to make than ever before besides or even offering tutorials on how to create this pornography. your actively investigating some of these sites behind this technology. what can you tell us about them? >> yeah i'm i'm currently out here on an investigation into the anonymous person behind one of the largest deepfake pornography sites and what i'll say is it's not just about x and having an image come out on x, you look at aoc and she, it's horrific. she found this image of herself on x, but there are the sites that are operating in plain sight, were millions, not hundreds, not thousands, millions of people are going every month to these sites to learn how to do this type of thing. and then what's happening. it's trickling out into the real-world. we're seeing this in high schools. >> you now have >> apps just as easy as it is to order an uber or order grows

threes. now they're upset, encourage young men to digitally undress their classmates with generative ai and i think we're just scratching the surface on this. it's a huge problem. >> are these things, i mean, obviously they're operating in plain sight. how's that even legal? >> yeah. i think it's 20 years ago. i covered non-consensual pornography and the rise of this type of abuse online. and i remember just saying, well, how is a lot of this legal and in short, the laws hadn't caught up yet, right? i think that's what we're looking at right now. you have a wild west of artificial intelligence. you had these new unintended consequences, these new use cases that are mainly being used to harm women, right? we're seeing it now with politicians, with figures like taylor swift and bobby altaf, who were victims of deepfake pornography. and now we're seeing it with our children. and as a type of abuse and as i think we know this already, it takes so while for the laws to catch up, but i think the most

frustrating part of this, if i can be honest, is this is happening. we don't need to warn people anymore. this is actually happening so right now, you do have a handful of state laws that are looking at protecting victims and all of them vary in scope. some are civil, some are criminals, some are both >> you have i've aoc spearheading the house version of the defiance act. so the laws, hopefully we'll catch up, but we need to know that this isn't even just reserve for politicians, which by the way, it's happening too many female politicians. i spoke to a journalist today who said he spoke to a politician. and the netherlands of female, a woman who said, basically this felt like digital rape when it happens i've been to her and those are such strong word. but i think it's really important that we listen >> yeah, it was he called it violent humiliation, but as a parent, i know actually a lot of parents who don't even put their kids faces on social media it almost makes you think that that might not be the wrong decision considering that this is possibly out there for not just their classmates, but

just really horrible people out in the world >> yeah. i mean, i think about it when i look at it through the lens of parents, right? this is a really scary type of abuse and i think the biggest thing i would say to parents is it's important to sit down with your sons tell them that this is actually digital abuse. that if these types of ads come up in high school, that it's not okay to gamify or point a camera at someone and quote, digitally undress them using ai. it's almost hard because parents don't even know that. we need to have these conversations, but these conversations need to happen because not only are we creating a new generation of victims but this type of technology when misused, is creating a new generation of abusers. >> yeah, it's a new form of a talk that you might have to have with both your sons and your daughters hopefully, the laws will catch up soon because if it's here now, it's not in the future. laura segall. thank you very much. looking forward to seeing the results of this investigation and thu so