online to get 50% off your first application >> carbon >> let's see an infill >> sunday, april 21 at nine welcome to lead. i'm jake tapper in this hour comedian conan o'brien comes here on the le, the major new project he's about to launch. plus what he made a returning to the set of the tonight show last night years after all that late night drama class with the clock ticking, donald trump is running out of time to find another path toward an appeal. can he get out of his first criminal trial or at least he's delay it before jury selection starts on monday, coming up, the options still on the table, and leaving this hour, the death of oj simpson today, his life and successes overshadowed, of course, buying murders and a trial and that controversial acquittal, not to mention his hypothetical, probably not hypothetical murder confession written out in a book who can forget in 1994 hearing that simpson was simpson was charged with murdering his ex-wife, nicole brown simpson and her friend

ron goldman. then watching simpson flee police in a white ford bronco at a angeles highway, people literally lining up on the road to see this kind of low speed chase. cnn since tom form and certainly remembers time you covered what would be one of, if not honestly, the most historic high-profile murder trial in the united states of america. >> yeah, i covered it along with i think >> eve national correspondent in t wesrn hemphere at e time, jake, look, this was real just a ground shaking trial ll, it was absolutely la in the troom. sometimes f you thought to yourself a little, this is really simply a cal muer trial. and yet the implicatio were so broad at the time, i think l of us do. >> it >> was changing our society and changing theay news would be covered. >> forever >>r lese believe that that oj simpson is in that car forwo hours over 60 miles, almost 30

ars ago, the low speed pursuit of an american icon became an american sensation. >> people were leavingir homes antheir work and wherever they were and they were ring these overpasses. >> and when the white broncos stop pro j simon to face murder charges over the killing of his ex-wife, nicole brown anronald goldman. the couny wahooked and that s our first introducon into reality tv. and what it lookedike. and we were obsessed. >> simpson was a superstar, a heismatrophy winner in college. one of them most dazzling running backs in nf in particular, runaway ies success. >> nobody does it better than her juice s a beloved celebrity and commercials and movies >> how you buddyocsis ase on my been in this new and a week. >> and y his role as defendant eclipsed everything else thrgh 11 nths ocourt proceedings and nonstop media covege. the nation was

captivated by daily debates over dna edence, police, procure, and dramatic moments may he'd for tv, if it doesn't fit, you must acquit when the verdict came down, not guilty of the crime of murder. >> my >> one estimate, 150 million people watched live many splitting along racial lines over whether the ruling was just or just wrong >> it's just i'm >>assi civil suit by the victims famies didot go as ordered to pay ts of millions damages he lost his house and heisman, buthureds of thousands and pension funds are >>amy israteful for a verdict of responsibily, which is all we ever wted. >> simpson had future legal problems two, in 2007, he was arrest after an armed robbery involving sports memorabilia, he said was his i'm sorry. >> i didn't mean to steal anything from anybody and i

didn't know i was doing anything illegal. >> he wound up convicted and sentenced to 33 years in prison. he was paroled in 2017. and through it all, he maintained his innocence in the murders that changed his life. and american society too, right now, i'm at a point in my life. well, i want to do is spend time with my as much time as i can with my children and my friends and i've done my time >> i'm sure in so many ways, the brown and goldman families will say they've done their time too, because they've had to watch all these years of attention on simpson after that not guilty verdict, and to be sure, because of his pensions and the way they settled the for setup, he did not live in poverty. he was able to make a decent living for the rest of his lifeevenhough many ople on america always felt thverdt was unjust and could never get past that pot. >> jak >> all right. tom. form. and thankso much. let's bring and cncontributor bob costas. bob, what's your reaion to simpsons death when you heard the news today? what did you

think? >> well, you can imagine someone who has such starkly different first and second chapters in their lives. the first chapter was entirely glorious, and the second, no matter how glorious and no matter how accomplished that, mhow much popularity in the first chapter, the second chapter there is going to be near the top of all the obituaries. it'll be in the first paragraph. it'll be something like oj simpson, heisman trophy winner 2000 yard rusher in the nfl, member of the pro football hall of fame, beloved television personality and commercial pitch man whose life fell apart when he was accused of the murder of his his ex-wife and her friend. that's the way that first pair of paragraph's going to be everywhere. and i can't think of a starker contrast when you look back at the life of any prominent american so you knew simpson for years. i mean, he was that glorious figure for decades. you were friends with him at one point yes. tell me

what your reaction was when you first heard in 1994 that he was he was a suspect in the death of his wife and her friend. >> yeah, my first reaction when i think it was on a monday when we heard about it my first reaction was, oh, my godwhat a terribleragedy. four oj and his mily, then as the thing ben to play out, you heard he was a suspect and theny friday of that weethey we asking for his arrest and he was fleeing and he had been termed augitive fromustice at that point. so at that point, youegin to thk there's good rson to believe that hwas somehow invoed. nolet me sayhis just as background oj simpson wasn't ju famoufoball player likable guy that kd of guy m. who woulremember theame the intern who broughtou coffee when you got to the set on a sunday morning, the cover football, which we did together for four or five years on nbc,

i had dinner with for the many times he came to charity events at my request, we played golf. he was a hail fellow. well met. >> that contradictory aza may seem, doesn't point toward his innocence when all of the factors and all of the evidence would taken into account as you've laid out in the last hour very capably there was an intersection here of all kinds of dynamics. the history of racial injustice involving african-americans in this country, the specific issue of the past behavior of the lapd and the feelings that african american citizens might have remain true. and oj simpson can still be guilty. you know, the the dna evidence with which barry shack and the innocence project have used to free hundreds of wrongly accused

americans. mosof them african americans, to exonerate them, which is noble work. the truth is that, thadna evidence pointed toward oj simpson's guil not innocence, but all the overlapping factors and the cellent work done by his dream team of torneys was able to too obscure that essel fact. >> 're >> all the social issues t helped to exonerate oj, ue? yes. >> but as >>he evidence the case itself, something that exonerates him. >> it must have been so other worldly foyou watch somedy who it soundsike was a frie and somebody who your relationship was, that he was this wonderful, generous guy. and then you hear all this evidence and see pictures of her, accordingo her sister, f and then come to t conclusion that in your vie your friend did this

>> yeah. >> i was inclined to give him the benefit of any dbt and remember he was not as beaumont e. jones said earlier, he was noa typical african american person standing charged for a crime. he hahis celebrity, he had his enormous popularity. you had the resources to have a great defense team, but he somehow beme an avatar in e minds of many for all ofhese other ongoing centuries old issu tt are very legimate issues. and he actually we beted from somof that if i could give him the benefit of any ubt, i would and i'm sorry to have to say this on the day that he passed away. but someone asked me once, do you think oj did it? i said yes they said why. and i said because i live on this planet >> yeah, it just >> the evidence just adds up to nothing else. and i hope i'm not going on too long here, jake, but this might be of interest i found myself on a

plane a few years after the verdicts found myself on a plane sitting next to johnnie coran, whad never met, but we recognize each other. he sat at the window and i was on the aisle and we made small talk mostly about sports. and that is the plane was descending. i said, i know johnny, you have to deal with this constantly. so i just want to ask you a question. just this one question did it surprise you that the prosecution didn't in their closing arguments make this point of all the african americans you can think of why would the lapd, whatever issues we may have with them, why would they have been interested in framing oj simpson of all people? and if they did did frame him, they would have to know if he was an innocent man, wouldn't they have to know that he didn't have an airtight alibi as they put all this stuff together on the spot, wouldn't they have to know that there's no possibility he was in philadelphia or chicago and had an airtight alibi or if someone else actually did it, that they

might not show up with blood all over their clothes in a bus depot in fresno someplace, how would you know if you had the most malign intentions? how could you, in that moment put all that stuff together and not know that it wouldn't fall apart upon the discovery of other facts that makes no sense. johnnie cochran then said to me i wanted why they didn't do that myself. but i'm glad they didn't and then i said given everything, it might not have made any difference. and jonny said, bob, i didn't create the facts of the case. i just worked with them and i said and brilliantly. and then with a handshake, we parted company bob costas. thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you, jake, >> coming up, why a foundation refused to honore former congresswoman liz cheney and the protest resignation that came up at plus comedian conan o'brien is here to talk about his big new tv venture. but first donald trump it's running out of options as he faces his first criminal trial next week, can he do anything to delay the

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>> her firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call us now back with our law and justice lead. it has now passed 5:00 p.m. eastern, which means former president donald trump, his legal team could not muster their fourth attempt this week to come up with a legal method to delay monday's historic trial. the new york hush money trial. that's part sex scandal, part 2016 election interference case and the first-ever criminal trial of a former us president. let's get right to the lead star legal analyst elie honig, le. is there anything trump lawyers can do at this point? it's thursday, so there's still friday, saturday, sunday before monday's jury selection hey, jake, today was a notable de know last minute adjournment requests? no emergencies, no appeals, no motions for r0 r0 >> reconsideration, maybe they've seen the writing on the wall that this thing is going on monday. now, the only things they can theoretically

do is first of all, try to ask new york's highest court the, court, of appeals to take a look at some of these appeals which were already rejected and maybe in the farthest off scenario to ask the us supreme court to get involved. any such effort though is doomed, both in terms of substance. he's gotten nothing here in terms of his arguments and in terms of procedure and in terms of timing, we are under 100 hours away from the start of jury selection. and i think this thing is going. >> trump has not won any of these efforts, but is there any harm to trump's legal team's credibility it in terms of the judge and asking for delays yeah so there's two ways to look at this. you could look at this strictly from a utilitarian sort of gain theory point of view of, well, if you're trump's team and you lost before, might as well ask again if you lose, you're just back to where you weren't before. nothing lost. but i don't take that view. i take the real life view having been in courtrooms that when you're a lawyer and you go in front of a judge, your credibility is precious. and if you are bringing motions that you've already lost on, that have next to no basis, next to no merit, you will lose your credibility

and believe me that we'll come back to haunt you. there will be times throughout this trial when you're going to need the judge to trust you, you're going to need the judge to give you the benefit of the doubt. and i think by making these motions that they've made over this past week, trump's lawyers have really given away some of that crucial credibility. >> in a piece you have publishing tomorrow in new york magazine and the cafe law blog, you're going to argue that this case is roar shack test borussia trial. you call it explain so jake, there's a couple of ways you can look at this trial, both of which are completely accurate. you can look at this as an eight-year-old paperwork offense on a case that the famously aggressive fed's across the street turned down. we're we're looking at either a misdemeanor or a low felony where the star witness is a convicted perjurer, or you can look at this as an attempt to interfere with the 2016 election to hide information from the american voters. and i think the facts here are largely not going to be in dispute. however, the payments made, who did what, who had what conversations with who? i

think the central struggle that we're about to see between the lawyers is convincing the juror of which categorization is more accurate and more fair. and i think they're going to be aiming for the jurors brains. of course, but it always comes down to that got and the heart as well. >> there's also been a bit of a branding war about this case. we often refer to it as a hush money case, as do many others in the news media. but the district attorney's office, they call it election interference because trump and their view was trying to hide information from voters before they cast ballots in 26 skiing what do you think is the best way to describe the case >> well, neither of those are fully akre. i usually call it the hush money case as well because it's an easy shorthand, but hush money is not the crime here. it's really important to know the crime is falsifying business records. on the other hand, it's a reach i think to say 2016 election interference the charges falsifying business records in order to commit campaign finance violations. it's a leap from campaign finance violations to trying to steal an election. >> all right. elie honig, thanks so much. >> conan >> o'brien is here at our cnn

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>> every step covered >> i'm pete muntean. it reagan national airport. this is cnn >> in our national lead quote please leave our house. a graduation dinner at the home of the university of california berkeley law school's dean on tuesday devolved into an ugly incident. a palestinian american berkeley law student who was invited to the dinner, picked up a microphone and stood before the gathering uninvited. listen to what happened next. >> i had attorney is after we have okay. you don't have to guess at our house right? no >> the student claims that dean erwin chemerinsky is wife, professor katherine fisk assaulted her when fiske, prior to take the microphone away from her after after that

moment at fisk home, the students said the university of california school system good divest from israel ultimately is that's what she was going to say. she says the incidents have sparked huge debate online about free speech and anti-semitism and protests and much more adjourning at joining us now uc berkeley law school dean erwin chemerinsky de chemerinsky. let me also start with the fact that the speaker in that clip as the co president of a group called law students for justice in palatine palestine. and that group put this poster out on social media days before the event at your home. the poster was also placed on bulletin boards and the law school building. it depicts a caricature of you holding a bloody knife and fork, the one we're showing right now doesn't have the blood on it maybe they redid it with the words in large letters, no dinner with zionist cham, while gaza starves. now you wrote in a statement after that appeared on social media. i never thought i would see such blatant antisemitism with an image that invokes the horrible anti-semitic trope of blood libel. and that attacks me for

no apparent reason other than i am jewish so just to be clear, because i want to understand what's happening here. not that anything would justify an anti-semitic poster, but just to be clear, are you out there supporting what netanyahu's doing in gaza? are you because your wife says that she agrees with the students when it comes to what's going on in gaza you think, you think you're being targeted only because you're jewish >> i've said nothing in support of yahoo is doing and israel and actually said nothing in any public forum about what's going on with regard to gaza >> the students >> weren't attacking me for anything that i've said and the only thing that they were saying is that the law schools should do that the law school has no investments. the university of california makes all the investments for all the schools. so it's hard thing to see any reason why they're coming after me. other than that i was jewish do you think it's difficult? we've covered anti-semitism at berkeley a

lot. it feels like in the last six months, including the berkeley on the campus of berkeley and berkeley high schools, et berkeley city council meetings, et cetera. do you find it difficult to be jewish at berkeley today do not feel safe i feel completely say the reality is that the overwhelming number of students in the los going to campus are >> going about being students. the lost been suggested, the palestine is a very small group in the law school and on campus. and i think it is so important that no one generalizes from veer anti-semitic speech and actions >> what was your reaction when you saw that social media post from this from this group, which has you with a bloody knife and fork and they call you a zionist. you're a renowned constitutional law professor and it's interesting because you've said that there's a difference in terms of free-speech between that social media image and what happened at your home explain

how you view that i found the image and knee with a bloody knife and fork deeply offensive. it does raise the anti-semitic trope of blood libel. >> but >> i also took the position that they had the right to put it out and bulletin boards around the school many students and staff, jewish and non-jewish said that it made them feel unsafe, but i said under the first amendment, they have the right to put those things on bulletin boards. but when something is happening at my house, that's quite different we invited the graduating students over its request to the class presidents to celebrate their graduation when a student took out of a backpack, a microphone, and an amplifier, and began talking about what's going on in the middle east. that's not okay. in my home. no one was speaking that night. it wasn't in any way and occasion for anything but socializing and celebration and was your reaction and your wife's reaction rooted in the

fact that this group had posted this image of you, at least in part i'm sure for both of us, part of the reaction is what preceded it in the last week and what's proceeded in the last six months. but i have to tell you that when the student got up and with the microphone amplifier and began talking about will anon in the middle east. my reaction was this is a party, this is my house. please stop. please leave >> all right. berkeley >> law school, dean chemerinsky. thank you so much for joining us today. >> thank you >> the new travel show launching by iconic comedian conan o'brien, who will join me in studio next >> i'm jeff zeleny on the campaign trail in omaha in this is cnn. >> it's hard to explain what this feels like moving miles of earth toeing up to 4,000 pounds

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work with freelancers, fiber >> i'm elizabeth wagmeister in los angeles in this in our pop-culture lead today, you guys, it gives me great joy to tell you that conan o'brien is returning to television. the award-winning comedian late night tv host in podcaster is now starring in a new travel series called coo'n must go,hich debuts next we. onacs anwe should remind youhat max d cnn are

both owned by warner brothers discovy, bhat's not why i'm doing this. the show was super funny. and guess who's joining us now? i's co-nin. hey, con is right rethank you so >> m call you ke? is you may than for having me. this is huge. let's show the sho folks a little clip.his is a rt oyo trip to norway? s. i went to norway an real got in touch with my roots that i don't have that. but anyway, take a look, let's take a loo >> red my pants falling down this is a travel show. g 'm dealin >> vis my fans >> in the world.e must embrace the way people do in thisountry.'m the case. you wryour meeting, it's soeird. >> that's what i do >>ndt'true though, i ink weo needome weird right no tl h the series came about. >> well, i do a poast called ow i've been on it. you've . i

en on it twi. i justeeded toell u again becausi know you just blowour friends left and rig a >> and it grew and grew. and then we started. i mostl talked to celeitie but i said want to talk people out in the world. and so we stard taking cal from people all over and ocsionally a fan in the fuhest part of the world would say, hey conan, you're ever in bergen, norway dot bias. and that gave mehe notion. had you ever heard of bergen, noay, but if i had no i had ard of norway but i don't think i'specificly ard of bergen. yeah. but i said yes. and so what weis we use saw in that clip right there. i sprisedy fans. as you and so that s a kid name, yaro hello, who's half of a rabbit wrappg duo. he looks like daniel radcliffe and it's not as muscular, not as musculars daniel radcliffe. and he's a very sweet kid and they're actually very talented duo. but i surprised him. so that's meringing his

doorbell. d he disguise. my voice do you't see it there, but i go baggage fedex and then he comes down and he was really excited and then i proceed to go and tear up his apartment and then get involved in his musical life. and i'm determined to put he and his friend at the top of the charts. that's pretty good. you have you provide some of the singing, the braille. >> i thought i should do a bridge the way sting used to sometimes sing the bridge on someone else's song verses about a fjord though mine is about a salmon and a fjord, but it's in my patented irish falsetto. >> so you hosted conan on tbs for ten years, then you started nan o'brien needs friend your podcasts, they have made needs a n. yes. an o'brien >> and i want to play a clip if you comparing your job to a fish farmer in norway. >> and here we go >> i am not envious because cai, what i do is very similar know, i come out here, i don't know if the, if the temperature in the podcast booth is going to be 71 or 70 i don't know if

my the ice tea they got me is going to be completely unsweetened or have a little bit of sugar. so i to and battling the elements in my own way. >> absolutely. i'm so happy that i'm appearing in the arctic and not down there. it's i'm so glad you're just said. >> so you're just very happy that you're that you're, you and not me. is that what you're saying >> yeah >> yeah. yeah, that's what i'm saying. i i can't i have to say like you're so great when you're interviewing celebrity guests and such. but like you, you really seem to love interacting with normal. >> i love talking to people. that is a guy, a cai, who is a salmon fishermen, salmon farmer. and i after i meet one of the fans, he's in another one of the fans. i go up and i find him and i go out on his boat and try and he's having a difficult time with his partner on the boat who helps him find

the salmon or grow the salmon. and so i try and get them to be friends again and so it's just a joy. it's really fun. i love my favorite thing is meeting people who among constantly bumping into people who don't know who i am. they're not that impressed. >> and i egg >> them on until they really put me down and i don't know why, but it makes me so happy. >> that >> guy on the street, this guy in the street, who is a criticizing my jacket. he says that the jacket you're trying to wear a mixture, you're trying to look too young and we really get into it and i love it. it makes me happy and you go to norway, thailand, argentina, ireland carolyn? yeah. what was anyone more fun than the other? >> they're all very different. the one thing it was fantastic and interesting about thailand, what it was, was a bunch of months ago. it was the hottest day that ever had in thailand. it was 108 degrees or 109 degrees. and so when you're doing improvisational comedy, as you're sweating out your body weight. it's fascinating, but it was really, it was fun

and i cannot say i liked one country more than another. each of those specials is very different, but they were really fun to do. >> so. you also made some history this week he returned to the tonight show yeah, 14 years after your time there ended, you sat down with jimmy fallon and you reminded him of some advice that was really, really hitting home for you at in that moment, let's run that clip >> you'll have this show as long as you want it. but when you're 98, you'll move on and someone else someone else will be in this studio when someone else is in your studio, it feels weird so i'd walked in and i said, khuza'a old studio and they said kelly clarkson >> yeah. >> i love kelly clarkson, who doesn't love kelly clarkson, but still i felt like hits >> what was it like to be back in that's it was a great feeling. i didn't actually jimmy studios across the hall. so he's in six b. i was in six say, which was this iconic studio that david letterman had

from i think 1981 to 93 and my studio was, i went into the same studios, dave. so jimmy's across the hall. >> i didn't go in and >> look real, but it felt very nice to just be back on that floor and there were still some people who came out who are still working at nbc, who were there when i was there. and so it was very emotional. they came out and the gray hair and you're like and i was hugging people and it was a very sweet feeling. it was so nice to be back and spelling, but couldn't have been nicer here. oh, he was great. and he's done an amazing job and i'm a fan and i think it all whatever happened all those years ago, it all worked out beautifully for everybody and so it was a nice return. it really was before we go, i have to ask you about something in the news today. yep. >> oj >> simpson died? yes. and yes. he was

>> a lot of fodder for >> you and a lot of other late-night can be >> it was a huge deal back then. most notably he's he's passed on. norm mcdonald. >> oh my god. one of my best guess of all time and one of the great comedians of all time just told some of the most, didn't those brilliant, i think comedy of anybody? >> during that whole lost his job at snl, that it was making fun of oj simpson for being the real killer? >> yes. and and and the head of the network at the time was tight with oj and all minor. yeah. and who can remember these names anyway, what i wanted the bridge but yeah, that was a huge moment in the history. i think of this country, he was a massive there, have been many times in this country where we've needed to kind of stop and

reassess, where we are in our racial history and where are we? what progress have we made? and that was one of those moments as it was such a watershed moment. so he has gone now. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> you have no you're not going to make me jackson >> oh, i never make a joke about someone the day they pass. okay. i'll hit you up tomorrow. yeah, tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. you can hit me up. it's my east costar. just go it's time >> yeah. >> no central it's on macs >> starting april 18 calling out a lack of courage, a famous photographer resigns from a presidential foundation with a blistering rebuke and he joins me live next erin burnett outfront tonight at seven odd cnn >> when you're the leader, is

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lead the latest in our series profiling the people that donald trump >> calls j6 hostages are january 6 hostages. they're not hostages. they're defendants or convicted criminals, convicted of crimes carried out during the january 6 attack, often violent crimes, often violent crimes committed against law enforcement today's convicted writer, david joseph, a gaetan of north carolina, gates and was convicted last summer of several charges, including assaulting police officers, the fbi says, that's him decked out in that green jacket, white helmet goggles, knee pads according to court documents, gaetz and was at the capital's west plaza area. they say images show him in a number of for physical confrontations with police. he grabbed the shield of a capital police officer, pushed others and another clip gates and appears to grab the throat or mask of a police officer at some point, the cameras lose gates and he reappears with a long pole prosecutors say gaetz and use that pole to jab at police, striking one police officer in the shoulder between his protective gear. gaytan was

number 217 on the fbi's initial wanted list in the days after the january 6 riot, he was arrested in may 2022, more than a year after the capitol riot. he went to trial last august. a jury found him guilty of five felony charges, including two counts of assaulting officers he is scheduled to be sentenced later this month. once again, one of donald trump's january 6 hostages. they're not hostages. they're criminals. >> and criminal defendants. that brings us to our plight of politics lead in more fallout from republicans fear of donald trump and what trump might do in a second term. my next guest, normally let's his photographs speak for himself. he was appointed president gerald r for its chief white house photographer. and has photographed every us president from lyndon johnson, a joe biden this week, he put down his camera and wrote a scathing letter resigning from the board of the gerald ford presidential foundation after the group denied liz cheney its top yearly award over, he says fears that donald trump would

retaliate against the organization if donald trump is reelected in the letter, he writes, quote the historical irony was completely lost on you, gerald ford became president in part because richard nixon had ordered the development of an enemies list and demanded his underlings use the irs against those listed. that's exactly what the executive committee fears will happen if there's a second coming of donald trump unquote. >> the >> author of the resignation letter, pulitzer prize winning political photographer, david hume ketterle is here that the political, the pulitzer, prize you want for your amazing photography during the vietnam war, though i believe you closed your letter, david, by writing this about the ford presidential foundation, quote it's now a place whose leadership is cowed by a demagogue, creating and promulgating the greatest crisis our country has faced since the civil war, unquote. is there any doubt in your mind that liz cheney was not selected for this honore because she is a vocal critic of trump oh, i think that's number one, two, and three they

put out a statement saying it was about irs rules that you can't promote a possible political candidate or political candidate and that's not true. in fact, her dad, i already have ironies in 2004, as a candidate for the vice presidency was the incumbent vice president, but running one the same award that didn't seem to have any was did the problem back then? >> so >> yeah, they're afraid of donald trump i mean, that's what's going around. it's like like a bad disease yeah. >> mean, it's intereing that she liz cheney was honored wi jfk fndatio profiles in couraward from a democratic the award for her father was what a chief of staffor

gera ford, right? >>e was chief of staff >> tn ended up becoming the secrety of defense and then vice president >> but liz >> it i read thosers rules liz had not annound that she warunning. so that'another element there. si don't get it, but the bottom line is liz is crageous human being. the joke forward awa is given outfo of adversity and diligence. and she eckeall the boxes of the criteria whichou can fin on the gerald ford website how uld the otr board mbers reted to your letter? ve y of them rehed out to you directly >> so quite few, there a only a few of us left to actually work in thehite house for presidt ford two of th who are still on the

board. wervery suprtive. i ink a lot of people on the board wanted h to get it, but it came do to the executive mmittee. they're the ones who basically lethe laers take over and stead following with their hearts they l the lawyer make the call and it ju was an act of unfortunate non bravery >> and your letter, you write, quote, if president ford to see the current state of his former party, he would be shocked and royally riled on. what do you think president ford would fin >> jacques i changed the name ye >> i mean, it president ford was a guy in woolworth to directed gunre gs gummy japanese aircraft that he his life had been on the line and his whole career was about

making tough decisions and not doing it for political oses. i was in the oval and everywhere with him almost every day his presidency he. >> saw him an action >> yeah. and he made a very difficult decision to pardon richard nixon before nixon would be indicted in the tergate scandal. that at the time was a very unpopular among it probly cost him reelection wh hor election and when he ran in 1976 former president trump faces 88 criminal charges, 44 of them are federal.t's unclear if any of the federal cases will happen before the election've heard pele talk about the edor joe biden. to pardon donald trump because it would be in the best interest of the country. do you think do you see a parallel bween what four did or no? >> that's a really great question. not really. no. i

think that richard nixon at at point he had been impeached it was going to be impeached, but it never got to that point. he resigned >> ford >> wanted to getn the rearview mirror. ihink that would be an interesting dilemma for joe biden because there is historic precedes. there sure that's a good question >> yeah. i don't ow wha y're next riard nixon also retired. he didn't he didn't dn't try to run for he president again. david hume can only thank you foronoring us with yr presence. as you know, i'm a big fan of yours and your photographs from way back. thanks so much for being yeah. >> thank jake >> tete is turned about what tiktok up next, why she's ready to begin again with the social media giant, stay with us

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with wolf blitzer. next on cnn >> in our law and justice lead, we are less than four days away from the historic first criminal trial of a former president of the united states donald trump it starts monday with jury selection in new york city. we're going to bring you every moment of this historic event as it happens during cnn special coverage. join me monday at 10:00 a.m. for our program that trump hush money trial only on cnn and also streaming on max now, in our lives around the world, us donee new discovery by archaeologists. that tops are leader on the world. archaeologists in italy of unearth they partially preserved ancient roman banquet hall with walls covered in paintings that depict greek mythology excavation began in pompei in the 1700s. experts believe a third of the city is still buried under ash from the eruption of mount vesuvius, nearly 2000 years ago, also in our worldly, the true story that sounds like something

else, sounds like a movie, perhaps, or an adventure novel. three fishermen stranded on a remote tiny island in the pacific ocean have been rescued because they used palm fronds to spell out the word help on the white sandy beach of the teeny ireland, they survived for over a week coconuts and fresh water, well water after their scif sank the coast guard plane spotted the help sin and plot twist. one of the rescuers turned out to be a relative of one of the castaways. are you ready for it? >> taylor swift's music is now back on tiktok ahead of her upcoming album release next week her record company has that had bad blood with the social media app. it pulled that music from its various artists, dover licensing, fight, but our wildest dreams have come true just in time to make sure it's not a cruel summer for all the swifties around the globe. if you ever miss an episode or lead, you can listen to the show once you get your podcast as to the news continues on cnn with wolf blitzer in situation room. i'll see you tomorrowow