doing your job i mean, abby, you are one of the most brilliant amazing, beautiful anchors and pay you to say that, but thank you. thank you. didn't but i mean, just cash at me know. but but you are one of the most amazing people we have right now in the tax you receive because of the way that you look, the way that your hair is, the way that you raise your children, the way that we are trying to be better i think is indicative of the fact that we've taken steps back and that's why i wrote the book. >> yeah. i mean, look, we have to recognize that these things are still having we can't pretend it's not happening, right? and there's a sense in which some people want to do exactly that and pretend that there is no race. so that we can move beyond race. but there's still definitely racism happening in this country. >> what i wanna show this book again. that's my look though. look at how hansen i get my shirt i took to compliment you. thank you for joining us tonight and for being here. don't forget the book is out tomorrow. the moment thoughts on race the race reckoning that

wasn't and how we can all move forward. but thank you for joining us and watching news night. laura coates, live, start right now tonight one trial, two, alternate universe the very different story is a jury is being asked to believe in donald trump's hush money trial. >> plus new revelations and the classified documents case. what a top over oh, office insider mourn donald trump, and who allegedly got promised a pie goo and breaking right now, police intervene in durham pro-palestine in protest at new york university after intimidating chance and anti-semitic incidents, will have a live report from the scene. tonight. i'm laura coast line well, what a split-screen in court today? the jury being asked and choose your own adventure with

competing opening statements that tell frankly two very different stories. the prosecution says, forget climbing this a hush money trial. no quote this case is about a criminal conspiracy & a cover-up going on to allege, quote, the defendant, donald trump, orchestrated a criminal scheme to corrupt the 2016 presidential election. then he covered up that criminal conspiracy by lying in his new york business records over and over and over again. and defendant trump himself. >> while he says all he did was pay a lawyer this is a case you pay a lawyer. >> a lawyer? >> and they call it a legal expense. i got indicted for that the former president's attorneys arguing that trump was innocent and not involved in the creation of the 34 business records that he has been charged with falsifying

and said they insist, quote president trump had nothing to do with any of the 34 pieces of paper. >> the 34 counts, except he signed onto the checks in the white house while he was running the country. that's not a crime but the story, the prosecution wants to tell is actually bigger than those 34 business pieces of paper, otherwise known as records. it's bigger than a hush money payment to daniel's. it's all in their words about election interference, quote, it's all about election fraud pure and simple. >> and the defense quote, there is nothing wrong with trying to influence an election. >> it's called democracy. so i ask you all, who is the jury going to believe? does that defense says whatever you do, just don't believe michael cohen but cohen, he may be on the roster, but it was david who was first at-bat. the x publisher of the national enquirer. and it key player in so-called catch and kill schemes to bury negative

stories on trump. and he left us with quite a cliffhanger he apparently has a secret email account for things he didn't want even his assistance to see, quote, is it fair to say you had one unkind for general purposes and one for purposes that you didn't want other people to have access to? >> they that's correct the was an expert in shocking stories about famous people. but even he apparently had stories that he wanted to keep secret. i wonder if they'll include something about the defendant let's talk about now a cnn legal analyst and former deputy assistant attorney general for legislative affairs, elliott williams and former federal prosecutor, jean ross. he is also a defense counsel. let's start here with you, elliott, because look, we are seeing everything takes shape. we're calling it the hush money trial the prosecutors are climbing this way, election interference, a conspiracy of source. they didn't charge conspiracy. but what's your takeaway about the way they are

crafting this narrative? >> i think they're crafting it as effectively as they can. laura, they are sort of broadly speaking saying that there is a criminal conspiracy with respect to concealing evidence of embarrassing interpersonal relationships from american voters. that's an effect. the felony, it's not just the falsifying business records. it's falsifying business records to hide another crime that being a campaign offense here, the problem here is that lay people, jurors don't quite understand some of these complexities and law and some of these arguments that the defense sort of got two might get in some of these jurors heads about these appeals to common sense about this. this is just about elections. use your common sense, ladies and gentlemen. so we'll see how this all plays out over time you know, i want to point out that point it's the ideas of the defense this case is not about his marriage being on trial, right? >> this is not about whether he

committed an extramarital affair. otherwise, he denies having done so in this kind texts this goes to why according the prosecution he was trying to cover up the payments made if it's about trying to save his marriage. one thing, but if it's even a little part about the election, that could be enough. >> well, i just want to save the scheme itself. that was hatched in the summer of 2015? elliott knows this. you try to keep it simple. that's scheme had three parts. one to catch and kill, get a story kill it, and put it in a volt literally. >> the other was to publish favorable articles about donald trump and the other was the spread slime about his opponent and hillary clinton. >> that three legged scheme was funneled in fueled by payments that cohen made. and david an ami that money had to be reported. and because it

wasn't reported, it violated the in-kind contribution and limits for election laws. that's the simple case that they have to present to the jury. stay away from the marriage, stay away from the relationships it's it's about hiding things that may hurt him whether it's true or false. and that that marriage stuff though, is that it's a humanizing detail that the defense can use and say yes to forget all this politics, business, what you were talking about is an individual who was trying to conceal embarrassing allegations that are merely allegations from his family, from his kids, from if they can plant that seed in some jurors heads, even one juror's head quite frankly, that could work. i have another season or the other seed is what lhs said, my buddy. >> okay. >> the other seed is this. you

have to cut that cord between the false misdemeanor invoice and the goals of this alleged scheme, which is really a conspiracy. >> you have to cut that connection in a few can just take trump's statement that it's false. >> invoices. i was paying my attorney and there's no connection to the election laws and the tax crimes you could put a skin cism between them. you could possibly not get an acquittal that's going to be hard, but you could get one, two, or three jurors that say you didn't draw it a connection to elevate it emeril, take it up a notch. you didn't elevate it to a felony. if they do that donald trump could have either a hung jury. i don't know about an acquittal who knew the guys is gonna make an appearance today in our conversation, i happen to love it but hey, it's making bam, there is a lot of different words that were used today and we kind of had a little bit take a look at this guys. >> we use the court transcript,

which they of course are now making available because there's not a camera in the courtroom today we use it to create this opening statements, word cloud of sorts to give you a sense of what was the most commonly used words for the prosecution. >> they said election at least 41 times, right? repetition that the signal of a great sermon, of a great opening of a great speech defendant, they used at least 49 times. they named karen mcdougal, who's that? $100,000 payment to the former playmate of the year? he says that she had an affair and was in love with donald trump, at least 45 times. stormy daniels, 35 times, and david 64 times that's the opening files. what does that tell you that that's the focus. >> well, i'll tell you this the use of the word defendant is an important one terminology plays a big role in how attorneys frame cases. certainly the defense is trying to refer to the foreign president as former president

trump, the prosecution is being very, very clear about referring to him as the defendant and using the term that defendant over and over again, we're trained this. we were all this is prosecutors use that term defendant to remind the jury that this person there is on trial. it doesn't matter what you think about them. you're not trying to humanize them at all you are reducing this individual you'll the facts now also, than all the other stuff backer i mentioned, this before times convey that coleman is not making that grade and the same level of their mentions, you know why? because i think it's a little bit risky. >> hanging your hat on michael cohen as a witness because he has some credibility issues. he has at least one conviction for making false statements, which is literally the worst conviction that you can have a witness have if you're putting them on the witness stand and make it out to make a carnival i had one witness in a organized crime drug case in my defendant killed 35 people my star witness, his first name was kevin. i won't mention his last name. he had about nine

convictions for fraud and perjury and you would think that this person who met him in a jail cell and was basically talking about a confession that might defendant made. you would think that the jury would not believe them. so here's what's going to happen. michael cohen, he's got his baggage. he has the perjury but where the rubber meets the road is when he testifies the way he looks at the jury, the demeanor that he presents to the jury. and is he corroborated my kevin was corroborated. they believed them even though he was a pathological liar. so everybody says that michael cohen is going to be a horrible witness. i want to see how the jury react. >> well, by the way, and goren in the case that was involved, this last one he goes to great lengths, almost a paragraph and a half in his opinion, talking about the rehabilitation of credibility to the point you're essentially raising of the he was believable and his colleagues before you get to your point, i just wanted to say, of course, i made a word cloud for the defense as well. because your balance is what's

important here. and the defense actually named michael cohen, at least 60 times, right? so they're 60 time, which is about much of that mentioned david. another one. so it's good. that they are intending for you to figure tidily in the jury, kill the messenger, and i think both things can be true, and that's where i started disagree with gene a little bit here. it's true that he is corroborated by the testimony of others or witnesses, maybe karen mcdougal or other people can and documents they're going to have financial statements that can corroborate substantiate some things that michael cohen says. the problem is that you can't hide from those convictions in the jury is going to be told about every single one of those things is no surprise that the defense used the names 60 the times because it's a big one. that's not to say it can't be valuable testimony. he just comes with some baggage. and i want to say this, david could hurt the prosecution case. big i wasn't i didn't listen to the 30 minutes today. but if he doesn't categorically say that we had an agreement that was hatched in a summer 2015, and

the agreement had these three goals. if he's wobbly, the vacillates on that that gives the defense and opening that there really wasn't an agreement or for scheme to do what they say happened. so david is testimony tomorrow. and when or thursday could be very important, regardless of what michael cohen says, i really important point and we'll get back to him as well tomorrow. as well. elliott and jean, please stick around i want to get this a break i want to get to some breaking news right now. protests tonight at universities across the country over israel's war against hamas, including at one in the heart of new york city, where arrests have been made outside of new york university. i want to bring in cnn, shimon prokupecz in new york. shimon, what are you saying? i hear the chance behind you. what are they saying and what's happening? yeah yeah. >> i'm laura, the process has been going on here for most of the night, standing outside the business school here in the

west village in manhattan at nyu. and you can see there's this standoff between the nypd and protesters what happened here just a short time ago? was there was an encampment. students who were protesting, setup tents and the police moved in on the request by hey, the school to clear the encampment and school says in a statement that they found that there were people who infiltrated the encampment that we're not nyu students and as a result of that, they ask the nypd to come in and remove the encampment and to remove the tents the other thing, the school said in the statement was that they heard that people were making intimidating chance, which raised a lot of concern turn for them, but also that there were incidents of antisemitism. and so all of that because of all of that,

they decided to bring the nypd. and now for almost plus three hours, there has been this standoff. the other thing what we learned from the nypd is that there were faculty members that were locked arm to arm to try and prevent the nypd from arresting the protesters that were behind here the nypd and the school has now clear this entire area and most of the items that were here before, like tents and other things belong to many of the protesters have been cleared at this point right now, there are about 100 or so protesters that remained the nypd is allowing them to stay out here on the street and continue their chance. there's no easy occasion that they're going to make any arrests at this point, but there's obvious concerned here from the school and the nypd that if they leave that many of the protesters going to try to get back on the campus.

but this is certainly another escalation at another university after these protests for the school to call the nypd in and to remove students to arrest students, and to arrest faculty is something that is going to certainly spark perhaps more protests, like w've seen over at coluia university and this is going to be one of these moments here at this university at nyu, where we're going to see probably students and other faculty members raised concern over for what the school here decided to do. >> it sounds like a very tense situation. it's worth watching the number of police officers who are guarding access and the chance behind you, i wonder, you'veentioned the ptests at nearbcolumb. this i obviously other university. what are students telling you about how they're feeling well for one, they are certainly the studentsver at columbia having experieed what they sawas just an eslation by the school to call the nypd and

to remove students to less students declare the encament was very troling to th. >> that's what why we also saw faculty members, teachers,nd employees of the school walk out of classrooms today to show their support for those students. in solidarity. with those students and for the first time really here tonight, we're hearing that faculty members here at nyu were arrested, that is certainly another sure escalate escalation in all of this so i think in the coming days, we're gonna be hearing a lot more from students and from that. the nypd was asked to come on campus and arrest students and arrest faculty member numbers and remove the encampment. but for nyu, certainly to do this look, it wasn't easy. they have to write letters. there's

a legal process that they have to go through with the nypd and we're totally did the school submitted a letter to the nypd asking them for their help because they are concerns over outside entities, factual 's outside of the school non-students breaching the camp grous and then obviously, the school saying there were incidents of antisemitism, antisemitism, and then the intimidating can and that ultimately is what led them to ask the nypd to come in. >> chemali hearing behind you, a wave of chance and cheers and then additional chance do you know the nature of what th' sayingwhat's what' happening behind youhile it's stly chants against the nypd, i'll show yosome more of the cwd here. >> they're gathered here it's mostly anti nypd chance, where hearing pro-palestine chance or hearing a lot chance about gaza. and this has

been going on. at nyu and it's also been going out of columbia. it's been going on at yale, but we're hearing bring all of these similar chance at all these universities across, across the country right now. and the concern obviously is that we're seeing the activity at columbia and we're starting to see its spread all over, right, to nyu here now, two yale, to schools out in massachusetts. so it's starting to spread there is a lot of concern by students over the escalation involving law enforcement in these incidents. but the schools feel like they're at a point where they need to stop some of this up, stop some of the escalation via the protests. certainly for nyu, they moved quickly how to colombia, they waited a couple of days. here are the nypd just took several hours and the nyu asking the nypd to come in, shimon prokupecz. >> thank you so much. so

informative of amu on the ground. i appreciate it so much, joining me now, o'mara, while assistant professor of political science at uc berkeley he is an expert on protests movements and their impacts on society. thank you for being here, professor, you are hearing and seeing what's happening happening across the country, particularly in new york city. you have studied protests, movements for decades. how do you think universities are handling this moment? right now one of the interesting dilemmas for both protesters and for authorities is that there's this balancing act and that you want, if you're a protester to draw attention to your cause, and that can often benefit ironically, from authorities escalating and for the authorities, they want to try and maintain order. >> but these kinds of escalations, columbia bringing in police for the first time in 50 years draws more attention to the issue. and in many cases, what the evidence i found in the 1960s these kinds of escalations by authorities often produce more sympathy for

the protesters. and so there's attention for the protesters and that there's real risks of being arrested and there's also these real risks for the police and for the universities for dialing up repression in that they become the focus of national media there were watching some movement on the screen. i'm not sure you can see, but it appears to be some movement of people coming down from earlier today, coming around the area. and so we're seeing the only our lives stop. it also what's happened throughout the course of the evening for the audience's perspective of this as well columbia says that it will have a remote option for students for the remainder of the year, not the rest of the week, the remainder of the school year. what is your reaction to that i think it seems excessive given that so far these protests have been largely peaceful. >> and as best as i can tell, not as disruptive.

>> there are they are obviously taking over. >> they haven't deterred of occupy wall street style taking over a particular part of campus, but that doesn't prevent people from going to classrooms there certainly are these concerns about anti-semitism, but i don't want what i hear more is people talking about a fear on campus and the actual incidents are much more what's happening in the columbia case off-campus? and so it seems like an effort to try and manage a situation but the but as a, as a professor, i want to be in the classroom with my students and sort of pushing people to zoom or at least not, at least making it something that professor could decide individually fourth thing professors to do that forcing students to do that seems more like an effort to manage than two engage with what's going on we often hear, i know we have much time. >> we often hear about schools as the marketplace of ideas, where people are looking to

have individual students learn the the guardrails their own minds and what they believe about an issue and protests can certainly come up with that, but there is a moment when protests turns from an exploration of one's views and a description of them to one that can be violent where university could have that balance shift in the other direction. are you seeing that pendulum shift here i've not, i mean, so far i've been following these quite closely and i have not heard of any significant violence in the 1960s, the kinds of things we were looking for were significant injury, death, arson is nothing like that as best as i have been reported, they the today is there a level of proactivity you'd expect from university well, if a protest is peaceful than i would expect it to, that's that's, that's a kind of free expression. so i would, i would expect the, uh, yes, that the university should be pretty hands off until there's a significant disruption of life on campus bass or there's some

other kind of escalation& really naming if there is if it is interfering with the functioning of the university, then absolutely there's a reason to stop that, but otherwise, it's a form of expression really important to get your expertise because he had to rely on it. of course of all your studies and protest movements over time, o'mara. well, so thank you so much. >> thank you for having me coming up. >> the first witness and take the stand and trump's trial. we're going to dig into david is relationship with one donald trump and will answer you for our questions about the trial. live coming up laura coates lai brought to you by bristol myers squibb hcm is a serious heart condition affecting as many as one in 200 people like me and

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second, jessica, i'm so glad you're here to break this down. who exactly is david? and what is his relationship with former president donald trump? >> you know, laura david, donald trump. they for decades have had this really symbiotic relationship. donald trump, of course, the famous new york city real estate tycoon who reveled and make can tabloid headlines david of course, was the publisher of the national enquirer, potentially the most famous tabloid in the country, the two are definitely longtime friends. in fact, in court today, david, even looked over to trump's defense table when he stepped down from the witness box and said, hi, and of course, he'll be back back on the stand tomorrow. laura, beginning at 11:00 a.m. so what exactly is his relevance in this trial? friendship aside? >> yeah. prosecutors say that was the one who really orchestrated these catch and kill deals here. and the one at the heart of this case is when reached out to michael cohen just before the 2016 election and he said that stormy daniels

was shopping around this story alleging an affair with trump. >> well, that's when cohen reached out to daniels and offered that $130,000 payout and that is why is being referred to by prosecutors as the eyes and ears really for trump's 2016 campaign. >> now the so there are two involved payoffs from publishing company. there was one to playboy model karen mcdougal, and then there was another one to a trump tower doorman. he claimed that trump had a child out of wedlock, but that claim turned out to be false. so david will have a lot to talk about when he continues his testimony. >> i didn't say it was a really brief testimony. short window of time for when i think it was maybe 20 minutes or so. but what did we learn while he was on the san before they are released early? >> yeah, we did here just less than 30 minutes of testimony from david expected to return to the stand tomorrow will likely hear up to three hours of testimony. but when did talk today, he already went into great deal detail about what he called checkbook journalism,

not really journalism at all at all. >> but that's where the national enquirer and his other publications would regularly pay for stories. >> david really documented it, saying they would pay up to $10,000 per story to investigate and then publish. so prosecutors will likely jump off of that testimony to really get into more details about this catch and kill practice that we know. practice throughout his publications, laura jessica schneider. thank you so much are really could be a very important figure in this case, elliott williams, gene razi are back with me. look, they lead with a witness that they think is gonna be very advantageous for the prosecution. you don't want to lead with somebody is more problematic call it. for example, but he essentially they're saying was in the room where it happens, elliott, where there were some discussion to suggest that they were going to cook the books. that was a phrase they used no, absolutely and genome is touching on this a little bit earlier in the program what needs to come out of that

testimony is some establishment of the intent to hatch the scheme as we all know, as for a prosecutors criminal intent is largely the whole ball game when someone is being prosecuted, not just did an act happen, but did defendant intended to commit a crime when carrying out that act? one way to establish that as having these three individuals in this room saying, not only do we wish to falsify it the records, but we wish to do so for the purpose of concealing embarrassing information from american voters, not in those precise words, but that they knew what they were doing. yeah. can we all remember? certainly the testimony of michael cohen in front of congress and other moments who's spoken about any suggests that there is an intimation of things when it comes to donald trump as opposed to outright saying something explicitly, it's almost like a tonight's how she got here. are eight things to burned down in some way that's not going to be enough in a case where you're talking about in the room where they happen,

cooking the books, this overall scheme that's not enough just to suggest there's an intimate intimation here. >> well, is elliott knows there's this instruction that an agreement, even a scheme agreement, can be a wink and a nod, an informal understanding a code and what michael cohen said in his testimony before congress is donald trump talks in code if the jury believes all that, michael cohen says about the code, the wink and a nod then they will, they will come to unanimity that there was a scheme. i do want to say this for free. you get there though. yeah. go ahead. my pick. it isn't the people because he is charged but 34 counts of falsifying business records they started out talking about a scheme and a conspiracy that's not been charged. and people may have been thinking about the aspect of the georgia rico case, for example, when that was a bigger part of it the fact that we're talking about a scheme and there hasn't been the explicit charge of say, a conspiracy that shouldn't matter. >> it should not matter because

a scheme really is a fancy way for saying conspiracy. although there isn't the word conspiracy, but the charging document, the indictment & a statement of facts, talks about the scheme. and as i said in the prior segment, that scheme had three goals catch and kill, print favorable articles about trump, and in slime ted cruz and hillary clinton. and that was the scheme in a money, the the off the table money that fueled the scheme. but i want to say this, one of the key bits of information is going to hurt donald trump is after the access hollywood tape. stormy daniels came out of the woodwork and my former client called david and dylan howard and say, i represent stormy daniels after that call was made to national enquirer michael cohen got a call from david that supports that scheme that they wanted to kill this

story because it would affect the election. and you mentioned, i think in a break, this recording that michael cohen has in september timber of 2016, that recording is very devastating to mr. trump. president trump, because trump tells cohen, don't pay with a check, pay with cash and echoes what elliott said that goes to intent that they're trying to conceal but we certainly know from council for cohen and different interviews that there is some receipts that were waiting to hear from the prosecution is now set expectations. the jury, here's i'm going to tell you one other quick from both of you, who comes after david? >> oh, my goodness, who comes after david i think maybe some of the more boring witnesses people to establish from inside the trump organization mission to establish how the payments were made. i think what you want to do is barry michael cohen's testimony in the middle so that he's not the last person you hear from? yeah. i totally agree with ellie. >> this is a nine and end game.

the leadoff hitter is david. you're going to put in some relatively unremarkable witnesses in ease two and three. and you're going to try to bury michael in the fifth. any where stormy coming. stormy is probably going to be the seventh winning strategy. no storm analogy. she'll be a fourth ending because she has to come before before colman ending left-handed spot exactly. >> exactly neutralize their of their power okay, we've exhausted this particular so much elliot genes stick around. >> thank you so much we've got questions about the trump trial. >> we'll look. we've got answers and it coming up live in just a few moments. >> every piece of evidence tells a story how it really happened with jesse l. >> martin sunday at nine on cnn businesses go further with 5g

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the federal court in washington, and this is cnn donald trump tonight complaining about the jury and the judge in the hush money trial this judge said that, you can't get away from the trial. you know, he's rushing the trial like crazy. that's yuri expect so fast, 95% democrats the areas mostly all democrat you think of it as just a purely democrat area. it's a very unfair situation that i can tell you right to a speedy trial. some would say the same judge who tomorrow will hold a hearing or whether or not donald trump's posts have violated a gag order against him it's one of the main topics if you've been asked think about on our questions page and cnn.com slash trump trial questions, you can always type in your question there and then we'll reach out to have you call in let's get to our first caller tonight. we've

got barbie from palm desert barbie, you got a question about the gag order. what is it? >> hi hi for the purpose of punitive leverage, what is the judge considering a much higher threshold of monetary fund for e. jensen's a breaking the gag gold then doubling it in succession that's a great question, elliott, what do you think barbie, i hope my answer is, can for you here, but what i will say, it's new york state law. >> it is prescribed very strictly under state law in new york, the judge has to have a hearing. the judge is limited and how we can put the defendant behind bars and also how much you can find him. so it's not he doesn't have full discretion here in the way that people really think he does. >> it. just say we've got dmitry from my home city st. paul, minnesota. what's your question, dmitry? >> hi trump is facing 34 counts of falsifying business records,

do you see a scenario where trump could be acquitted on some charges, but found guilty on others. >> it's a good question. there are 34 counts that are very now, but each of them are falsified business records. they are tied to different documents in question, different invoices. so if they're unable to prove their case with respect to a falsified business records. in particular, those of course can lead to an acquittal. and obviously if you fail to meet your burden of proof, so it's documents specific on that very issue. andre from laurel, maryland. what's your question? >> hello how, are you. >> i'm good. how are you? >> i'm doing well, thank you for accident. my question is, what risks are there if donald trump takes the stain and also candidate? heard the defense that's a great question. let's ask gene, what do you think the risk if he takes the stand is he will be found guilty because he is a horrible witness, whether it's a deposition, one of the e jean carroll cases, he can't control

themselves. >> number one, body language wise and every time he opens his mouth, he says something stupid. the last thing is they had that sandoval hearing. there's a lot of uncharged conduct that they're going to cross-examine him on. the chances of donald trump taking a stand are zero if he did take the sand, he would be found guilty. no pun intended. in a new york minute, it's not just donald trump defendants really should almost never take the stand they can be picked apart. anything they say, there'll be eviscerated by prosecution, just not a good idea, then taiga true balances of power does it see even from roy pingers falls, new york, what is your question i laura hi. my question is, how was trump charge? so many years or so long after his alleged crimes didn't the statute of limitations lapse or was there a pause or a tolling for the year has been trump's served as press that's a great question. so that was one of the concerns that many people have had about this case, including former

prosecutors on this ray incense about this stale nature, perhaps of the actual allegations at issue here. that's what we have to overcome. and the presentation of evidence. but in terms of such limitations, they are within that particular get their period of time they would not be able to bring it, otherwise, yes, there is a tolling at times if somebody is the president of united states given of course, that advisory opinion in doj has you cannot prosecute a sitting president. this of course, this prosecutions. so as distinct, of course, from the federal advisory opinions, but they are within that limitations period, whether or not the jury feels that this is an appropriate case, is not really the question being asked to answer. it's about whether they have met the burden a proof, but a great question to raise because if you're the prosecution, this case you're wondering is it a day late& $1 short or do i have enough to be able to bring this home and the defense will undoubtedly raise that very question in front of this jury with two simple words. >> why now? or maybe two

others, why after ad more why after othedecidenot to do so, it's really great question. elie and g and tnk you for helping to answer all of these questionsnd thank you to everyone also, who called in. hey, do you have a question you'd like to answer on the upcoming trump trial where we want to hear from you, submit your questions at cnn slash trump trial questions well unsealed documents in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. revealing that trump's co-defendant was told that he would be pardoned and that's not all will unpack the new filing. max live from the nation's capital one at the most get able nights in dc, there's wonderful read back here aga president biden, and comedian collin joseph headline the white house correspondents dinner live saturday at seven eastern on cnn shot that's the until may 12th for up to 30% off special mother's day gifts

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network a major new filing and one of the other criminal cases trump is facing. >> this one related to the federal classified documents investigation, and it includes note from an fbi interview with a key witness described as someone who worked in trump's white house, one of the most shocking details, this witness identified as person 16 says trump's personal aide and co-defendant in the case, walt nauta, was told he would be pardoned if trump won a second term. now reminder, not was charged last june with lying to the fbi and obstructing special counsel jack smith's investigation. here's what the filing specifically says, quote, nada was told by potus about people that his investigation was not going anywhere that it was politically motivated and much ado about nothing nada was also told that even if he gets charged with lying to the fbi

if potus will pardon him in 2024. and that's not all in one of the more bizarre details in the filing. this witness gave trump based stark warning to hand over the documents to the national archives the filing says that in november of 2021, person 16 told the former president of the united states whatever you have, give everything back, let them come here and get everything. don't give them a noble reason to indict you because they will from repo this friday at eight weird you're the man type of response it goes on to say that person 16 was given the impression that trump was going to return the records, but the meeting was interrupted when a mar-lago club member and a much younger woman walked up, take a photo with trump. i want to bring and see it anteriorly with law enforcement and f former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. so glad to have you on this evening. so let's

listen in addition to warn and trump face-to-face, this person 16 also says they also asked trump's children to convince him to give up the boxes and quote, talk to your dad about giving them back. it's not worth the aggravation is this a value add to this case well, it certainly it's an interesting episode and it could kind of go in a bunch of different directions. >> i think first, this witness, this witness referred to as persons 16 is somebody who clearly has frequent access or had frequent access to the former president was a member of the administration, but also traveled to mar-a-lago on numerous occasions after after trump was no longer president, he's also from these statements, somebody who was very, very clearly worried about the legal implications of the written pension of these documents and tried to pass along suggestions about how to

resolve this through the children and in different ways. so all of that to me suggests laura that this person is probably somebody with legal knowledge, probably a lawyer, somebody who maybe who served in a council position in the white house, but we don't know that for sure. we're the interesting thing about the nada reporting is we really don't know how person 16 heard about this alleged offer of a pardon in return for lying to the fbi. did they learn that directly from walt nauta or did he learn that from someone else who claimed to have heard it? >> from nauta or maybe someone else who who actually made those comments to nauta. >> so that's the piece of the puzzle that we don't have. so it's hard to assess the impact that this witness would have without understanding that fact. >> we know this person apparently asked the fbi not to record their conversation, quote zhang, having the interview who recorded was a far bigger risk for him in the trump world so how do you think

the fbi interpreted that statement well, it's interesting. >> i know that it's they tried to convince him that not recording the interview would actually look worse for him because everybody else hello, other witnesses. interviews were recorded and of course, the person made that comment and said that he still didn't want to do it anyway. the question that i would have had as an investigator interviewing this witness was boy, how likely is this person ever to actually testify in front of a grand jury or in front of a trial jury. if, they're not even willing to be recorded here in a private interview. so i think it does indicate you should they should have some concerns about whether or not this person, even though he did speak to them. and let's give them the benefit of the doubt that he spoke truthfully. he may not be willing to go. all the way and testified a proceeding but what have had to been under oath talking to them in the first place, right well, you don't always put every

witness under oath during the course of a routine fbi interview. >> however, you let witnesses know that if they lie to the agents during the course of the interview, that that can be charged as a federal crime. it's via 18 usc 1001 is making a false statement two an investigator, and of course, of investigation can lead to a federal charge. so it's essentially you let them know that there's a significant penalty that could be on their way if they make false statements the thing that really blows my mind know about this whole, this whole episode. laura is if if this actually happened, if some sort of an offer of a pardon was made to walt nauta in return for lying to the fbi and its own interview, which we know he did because we've read his transcript now, write that came out about a week ago. we know that but he lied to the interview. to the interviewers and that interaction that's something that could be charged as obstruction of justice. that's kind of the worst outcome. >> but even beyond that, it's

certainly indicates a strong degree of guilty knowledge, innocent people don't usually try to convince others to lie i the fbi about what they did. >> and isn't people say sure. meet with the fbi, tell him the truth. there's nothing wrong here. we didn't do anything wrong. >> so it's really an interesting insight into what was going on potentially among the trump camp really fascinating insight. >> andrew mccabe. thank you so much for joining hey everyone out there. thank you for watching. >> our coverage continues a heart attack. >> do they have life insurance? >> no. >> but we have life insurance john, i'm trying to find something we can afford fortunately, it only a few minutes select boat found john of 500 thousand dollars policy for only $29 a month and his wife and a $500,000 policy for only $21 a month. go to select quote.com now and get the insurance for your family meets

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