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week three of donald trump's hush money criminal trial. i, wolf blitzer in washington, kaitlan collins is outside the courthouse in new york, right? now, the prosecution is questioning keith davidson, the former attorney for stormy daniels, and karen mcdougal to women who say they had affairs with trump anywhere paid to keep quiet. jurors also heard from the banker who processed the stormy daniels payment. he said he was misled about that transaction caitlin yeah. >> wolf, it's been fascinating inside that courtroom because also remember at the start of today, the judge ruled that trump violated his gag order in this case nine times. he find trump the max it's a mum of $1,000 per violation and even floated the possibility of jail time for future ones. cnn's paula reid and phil mattingly are here covering all of this with me. i should note that the court has just taken a break

for lunch, which means keith davidson is off the witness stand. donald trump is leaving the courtroom, so as the judge and the jury, just for a small moment, but keith davidson is an incredibly significant witness for the jury to be hearing from paula. >> yeah. and then the past, our they've heard mostly about karen mcdougal and her or his efforts to represent her as she tried it's a shopper story and he lays out a couple of significant things. first of all, that she has competing offers. he's trying to build pressure to get this soul. he talks about the quote estrogen mafia, as he said as he regrets describing it, some female producers at abc news or pressuring her to give them the story while he's quoting ami, american media incorporated, the owner of the national enquirer perhaps purchaser story, and he suggests that karen mcdougal actually preferred the national enquirer's approach because she didn't necessarily want her story published, but it's also something to see the kind of offers he tossed out on behalf of his client. the first offer was over 1 million, and then to pay her to be a calmness. so he's going through step-by-step. >> what he did to try to get

this deal for his client and it's important that we're going to get to the stormy daniels aspect and that agreement that keith davidson also negotiated. >> but what we learn from david pecker last week is that karen mcdougal is someone that trump was very much checking in with long after he was already in the white house david pecker recalled when he visited the white house, donald trump asking him, how's karen doing? >> several times, the former president, then candidate, and then president would add david pecker. there's the meeting at trump tower with several future white house officials and the former president where after they left, they included fbi director jim comey, included the future cie director, my palm peo rents previous as well. and after they departed, he asked how she was doing in the white house, as you noted, a couple of months later, did the same exact thing. the present very cognizant of something going with karen mcdougal. and now you're getting the dynamics. we talked a lot when david pecker testifying about the foundational elements of what they were setting up. the prosecution. this is very much along those lines as well. didn't gotten to stormy daniels yet, but the jury is

hearing how this all works and getting a very inside look into as opposed to competing dynamics between two different news organizations. and also the very clear desire stated by davidson that mcdougal not want her story to be public, wanting to go through ami, including some pretty exorbitant michelle offers on the table to try and ensure that the story did not ever see the light of day. it also shows how much negotiating happened back-and-forth, and how the urgency changed is we've got closer to there are convention. >> and as we'll learn with stormy daniels, the election and paula keith davidson is going to be a juicy witness before that, there were some witnesses who would not be described it in that way i love a good archives. i saw you guys riffing on c-span earlier and i was very here. but we'll work proceeds spat on this panel, but obviously to the jury, they were having to explain pool reporters and going into the details of of court testimony in depositions that trump is good given that could be key to this. we've actually found

those key moments that they are putting into the evidence rucker. i just want everyone to see and listen to what the jury was watching. i'm listening to earlier as you obscene right now, i am being viciously attacked with lies and smears it's a phony deal i have no idea who these women are every woman allied when they came forward to hurt my campaign total fabrication the events never happened never they want. to be able to use this. it's some point later on down the road. i mean, they already showed it to the jury, but to use it to show what trump was saying at the time. yeah. look, it's not a crime to stand on a stage and vladimir supporters, or to lie to the press in these poor ports. but it's interesting, he said, these women are lying to hurt my

campaign. so at some level he is acknowledging that he knows that these stories could potentially hurt his campaign. and of course, we now know that these stories are other fairs. and though he has deny them, it does appear that they were all true. so this also works to undermine and his credibility and show that he was working as prosecutors allege on this cover up on this conspiracy to conceal these payments, to conceal the stories of the affairs. why? >> to help his chances in the 26 can't team campaign. and that's so critical because it's that part of the case that elevates this to a felony well, i was just gonna say so much of what we've heard over the course of the last week and a half is at least at some point it was not about the family anymore is about the campaign. >> it was about both his election and then what his white house would be like talking about the urgency as you were noting as we move towards stormy daniels through the part of the story, but also as we've already heard, the president, at least according to david pecker, was repeatedly asked asking about one of the women and how she was doing, saying once again, there they didn't know any of the women. we don't know the allegations are true. he's denied all of

them, but we do know at least according to one firsthand witness, the president pretty much knew who cared mcdougal was and wolf that point that fill just made about protecting the president's family is also key given one thing that we're seeing that's different today is trump has a family member in the courtroom with him that he he has not had since this trial began. it is his second son, eric trump, who we saw getting the motorcade with them. he's been entering and exiting the courtroom. donald trump, we've not seen any members of the trump family i tend court with trump until today, wolff? >> yeah, it's very significant. indeed lawyers, defense lawyers are always suggesting family members show up during these kinds of criminal trials. house caitlin will get back to you in a few moments, we have an expert panel here with me right now, laura coates, elie honig, gloria borger, and david xiaolei and and laura. let's start off with you. explain where keith davidson fits into all of this, why the prosecution wanted him to testify. >> well, he is the person who negotiated more than one nda. one involves karam, a google and one ultimately stormy daniels. now of course he was the attorney would a former attorney, which may give you

pause thinking, well, how are you able to communicate at all about the nature of your represents? with your client? it's the client who owned the privilege and the client who put that muzzle on his or her attorney. but there's likely having here that there's already immunity given to them because in new york, new york has a peculiar law where if you testify in front of a grand jury, you have immunity and they likely have a carve-out where he could and talk about the nature of communications outside of the specific combination with him and his client, and instead about what was communicated by the outside. the outside is being dylan howard, the right-hand man, david pecker, and david pecker ultimately this important to not only corroborate the testimony, david pecker talks about a catch-and-kill but also give us maybe a little more flavor and color as to what was the motivation behind the reason to enter in the agreement? >> very significant, indeed, davidson, elie elie honig is with this testified there when it came to some of the dealings with stormy daniels and michael cohen was working, quote, on trump's behalf. has the prosecution effectively already established that trump was tied

to stormy daniels while they're trying to do it with that and that's a helpful piece of testimony for the prosecutors because a central theme is emerging in the defense it's here which is this. michael collin, whatever he was doing, he was off the reservation here. he was acting on his own. he was doing things that he was not running by donald trump. he was doing things that donald trump did not know about and did not approve. and so it helps if the prosecution gets evidenced that well, i understood michael cohen was acting on behalf of donald trump. now, watch what happens on cross though. the cross is going to be how do you know that? how do you know michael cohen was acting on behalf of donald trump and i'll bet you the answer is because michael cohen said, i was acting on behalf of donald trump, which sort of undermines a little bit of that claim that it was trump himself. but this is going to be a theme that we've seen already. we'll see throughout the trial was cohen acting for donald trump? was cohen acting on his own as a sort free agent? >> i think the question is, why else would michael cohen viewing this? yeah, well, he's doing it for would be the motivation. otherwise, it's

about his director or on his on his behalf or for trump. >> that's gonna be the parsing. or or or all of the above, right? i think at the defense, to your point, and i think we are making if the point if the defense is going to say hold on, you were doing a clique, thought it would help trump. >> but the defendant is trump and they have to prove that he had he intended for the behavior to actually occur direct correspondence that time michael cohen was still trump's fixer and lawyer. >> he was. but was he the fixer who make sure that you don't have to deal with the problem before it actually begins, are the one that took directly shouldn't because michael, here's the problem. go solve it and just remember the timing that we're talking about. i'm looking at these dates of these texts in july of 2016, we're talking about as the republican national convention in cleveland, where donald trump is being voted as the nominee for the republican party for president. that happens on july 21 and july 22 is one of these texts the day after that huge moment of coronation for him.

and it's dylan howard trying to get a hold of michael cohen because the heat is being put on him to be able to move the story forward. and it just makes me think as a political reporter, how much is happening with the paddling under the water, right? that you will know nothing about while we're all covering the convention. >> this is happening behind the scenes to try to prevent a total implosion and explosion of the candidates if you have time, trump's thinking what was going on. >> at those moments clearly, that was the top of his mind well, who knows if it was at the top of his mind, but it was it's clear that it was at the top of michael cohen's mind. >> and what he was trying to do was make sure that none of this got out, none of this got out and he's the one dealing with keith davidson. and on both karen mcdougal in stormy daniels because he represented both of them. and i think it's it's i mean, i'm waiting to hear from michael cohen to hear whether he got direct or

porter's now, you know, they always say about donald trump that he never gives direct orders that he kind of into mates. this is what you ought to do. and the question is, is that the case? and would that be good enough? to prove that in fact, donald trump asked him and wanted him to do what he did. >> notice that that many times publicly, he said that's how trump operandi never calvary. for example when michael cohen pled guilty to lying to congress about the trump tower moscow, he testified trump never sat me down and said, i need you to lie for me, but we all understood what he wanted to be clear we're on the attack on michael cohen. it's not going to be the michael cohen was doing this for the benefit financial or otherwise of michael cohen. it's michael cohen was the fixer. he wanted to ingratiation himself to trump. you want it to be someone who is useful and valuable to trump. and so he went off on his own and work things out. and then the big question, as laura was saying, is how much of that planning to donald trump know about to what extent was he involved in the nuances and to what extent was he sort of arm's distance and

just just tell me what i need to know. >> the prosecutor is going to have to prove, even even point of whether trump has intimated or not. >> you got to look for the attaboy at the ends, right? that's the part we're seeing a lot of text messages already coming in to confirm and what we all interpret the deal to be. you hear it from this manner testifying right now, we hear rather people. so if at the end of this, donald trump has only intimated and at the end he's black like, good job. remember we've already heard david pecker write that donald trump said thank you, thank you for handling the mcdougal and daniels situations. >> and then how to the white house right, yeah. there's your everybody stand by our kara scannell has been inside the courtroom all morning. she just got out. karatay color viewers. what you saw, what you heard well, if we saw the day begin with a continued testimony of michael cohen's banker at the time, who helped set up the bank account that cohen used to transfer? >> the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels, attorney keith davidson. we just ended the

morning session with keith davidson on the stand and he is talking now about the arrangement involving karen mcdougal. she was the woman who said that she had a year's long affair with donald trump. and so what the jury is seeing now our text message judges that were exchanged between keith davidson and dylan howard from the national enquirer as they were working around this deal, and davidson is testifying as he's testifying, these little thank at the jury to in an explanatory way to explain things to them and one thing that noted that stood out to me was that he kept referencing this personal interaction that mcdougal had with donald trump, the prosecutor then asked him, what do you mean by that? it was that point that davidson said, well, she alleged she had a romantic relationship with him. the prosecutors peter asked sexual and he said, yes. i mean, they're also saw a text. were dylan howard was asking for information about it and he asked if this was, if this meant that donald trump had cheated on the line? omnia and davidson said at the time he didn't tell him what he knew because he wanted to try to create some drama and create

some interest in the story. and ultimately we see from these text messages that karen mcdougal had a competing offer from abc news where she would tell her story. and then he began negotiating with the national enquirer about how much money she would get et for this. and in one of these texts, exchanges keeps davidson is saying, throw in an ambassadorship for me i'm thinking isle of man. he then explained to the jury then what he meant by that was that if he had this made this karen mcdougal deal happen, it would help donald trump's campaign. so prosecutors, again, trying to use him to tie this back to the campaign because karen mcdougal and according to david pecker and according now with pete davidson, didn't want her story of her past relationship job with trump public. and that is part of the reason why she did this still a a mi, but prosecutors trying to underscore here that the reason that at the time this real-time text message from in july of 2016, keith davidson saying that he thought that it had that they were helping donald trump's campaign. some

prosecutors trying to make that connection out earlier today, the jury also let's have a couple of video clips including some from donald trump speaking in october of 2016, just after the access hollywood tape came out, where he is denying the allegations of a numerous number of women who came forward to the jury hearing and seeing donald trump for the first time, answer some questions around this general topic. wolff gershkovich, she just got out from inside the courtroom. >> we're going to stay in very close touch with you, your eyes and ears inside the courtroom. thank you, very, very much, and stay with cnn are special live coverage will continue right after blame every weekday morning, cnn's five things has what you need to get going with your day. it's the five essential stories of the morning in five-minute or less cnn these five things with kate bolduan, streaming weekdays exclusively on macs businesses go further with 5g solutions.

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we're following the. breaking news and donald trump new york hush money trial, a criminal trial, or before testimony resume today, the judge find trump $9,000 for repeatedly violating the gag order e and imposed and threatened the former president with actual jail time if he violates it again joining us now, the former federal judge, john e. >> jones, the 30s, currently the president of dickinson college. judge. thank you so much for joining us. let me get your thoughts. so what do you make of the judge's decision? would you have done the same to fine trump for violating the gag order? >> i absolutely wolf would have done the same. i think it's appropriate. it's timely i was getting a little concerned about the judge of needing to act to uphold the authority and the integrity of his court. but i think he he did well he find him the maximum that he could

under the law of new york and it's it's a clear warning shot across the former president's bow the judge, as you probably know, is scheduled another hearing on this issue for this coming thursday to address four more alleged gag order violations by trump. >> do you expect him to rule against trump? again? >> i think that they could heal, take them one by one as he obviously did in the order that he released earlier today. and i don't think that the former president is in jeopardy of being jailed at that proceeding, but he made it quite clear that he's drawing some lines here and the former president could actually lose his liberty if he persists because there are very bright lines here and frankly, the judge said that to say that, you can repost what others say in order to skirt the gag order is both absurd disingenuous, and i agree with that. >> yeah. if you repost

something that suggests you support with your re-posting, at what point, judge wood, the current judge, have to act have no choice but to act on his threat earlier today, potentially of incarceration for i think if after today the former president in a very clear and pronounced way decides that he wants to play gamesmanship with judge merchan and continue to threaten or talk about in a disparaging way, witnesses or others that are prohibited under the gag order, then i think we're going to end up with a moment here. >> an inflection point where he could well lose his liberty because there's, there's really a as happens with police, there's a force continuum wolf where you don't shoot somebody in a traffic stop. if they refused to get out of their car. but if things continue,

and somebody cake, they don't get out of the car, they they make a hostile gesture towards you. there's there's four she can use this, judge is on the force continuum for a judge in the judiciary and if finding them doesn't work, the only next resort that he has is to incarcerate them is trump a former president of united states getting special treatment. in other words, if he were just a regular american citizen who repeatedly violated a court order of the gag order. would he be in jail potentially by now? >> i don't think so i do think that judge merchan is being really deliberate and careful if it were in my courtroom if you will, an average litigant, what i would've done i think is in a moment admonished him verbally and said something, but i respect the judge bradshaw nosy. he's got a case on his hands that he has to be

careful how he adjudicates these things. so i find no fault with what he did. >> wolff the other interesting thing about the order that was handed down by judge merchan is there's there's sort of a quiet shot across the bow of michael cohen and stormy daniels as well very interesting indeed, the former federal judge, johnny jones, the third judge. thank you so much for your expertise. thanks so much for joining us. >> thanks. well, thanks to our viewers. stay with cnn for more of our special live coverage of trump's hush-money trial a. florida man is hospitalized, infected with anthrax sunday this became the bureau's number one crying to solve how but really happen with jesse l. >> martin sunday at nine on cnn this making you uncomfortable.

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victims call now $30 billion in trust money has been set aside. >> you may be entitled to a portion of that money, paul, when 8085920400. that's when 8085920400 we're continuing to follow former president trump's hush money trial in new york, but we're also watching very closely some new developments in the campus. >> unrest, gripping so many colleges across the united states, right now, several students at columbia university in new york are barricaded inside an academic building after breaking in overnight to protest israel's war in gaza, school officials are now urging people to vacate columbia journalism building, citing what they call safety concerns, the white house also responding today saying that protesters who occupied campus buildings are taking the wrong approach. let's get right to cnn's polo sandoval, he's joining us from columbia university. so what's happening there now, apollo well, for over 12 hours dow, since a group of individuals

actually occupied the building that you see behind we are now beginning to get a better idea of who likely may still be in that building. >> that's according to what you just heard from a member of columbia university, apartheid hi divest speaking to my colleague jeff winter, who confirms that among some of the occupants still of that building, our members of that organization, commonly known as quad. >> now if this sounds familiar with if you remember, is that this is the organization that had a couple of their representatives that were actively engaged in days-long negotiations with members columbia university negotiations that basically stole, that led to yesterday's deadline and eventually lead to escalating tensions. and of course, less dramatic pictures of hamilton hall historic building that has served as a stage for previous protests being occupied by these students are mock mooc allele in this conversation with in an adding the key has been informed that he has also been suspended. he said that he had already previously left the

university campus when this took place. face and he at this point, according to kelly that it is up to the university to determine exactly what will happen next. and khaliullin on the university two, once again, resume negotiations. so this is the first time that we are essentially hearing from one of the peoples who were at the negotiating table with columbia diversity trying to resolve the issue of divestment this is now one of those negotiators calling for those negotiations to pick back up again now, in terms because of what we have heard from columbia just in the last few minutes, they have reached they have issued a statement right now threatening anybody who is currently occupying, especially their students so obviously occupying the building that you see behind me, threatening them with expulsion. so you certainly do get a sense. the university has also taking a different path position here as they continue to restrict access on campus all morning long, we have seen numbers of the university community walk up to that gate with a majority

of them being denied access says only those essential personnel and students who live on campus are being allowed on it. >> so i just want to be precise. polo while i have you, some of those students who actually broke into that building on campus and broke the windows across through the doors. they wouldn't just be suspended. they would be expelled from columbia university. is that right? >> that's according to the spokesperson for university wolf that just issued a statement just a few moments ago, we had heard those threats of suspension particularly when it comes to those that were occupied. there were at least taking part in that encampment for days that now you really do get a sense of that escalation when the university issue queuing a very reflect warning to the people inside that building without permission that if they do not leave the risk exposure exposure is different than suspension. >> and there was a lot of video cameras showing who was breaking in through those doors in those windows. so i assume the columbia university authorities have evidence if

they were gonna go ahead start expelling students, columbia university students, polo sandoval. thank you very, very much. was they in close touch with you? will stay on top of this story. and our special coverage of the trump trial will be back in just a few moments. >> cnn central, tomorrow at seven eastern yeah, introducing nets plaque psoriasis. >> he thinks is flaky red patches are all people see. >> oh, tesla is the number one prescribed hello, to treat blacks are isis. oh, tesla can help you get clear. don't use a tesla if you're allergic to it, serious allergic reactions can happen. oh, tesla may cause severe diarrhea now or vomiting. some people take new tesla had depression suicidal thoughts. are upper respiratory tract infection, and headache may occur live in the moment asked your doctor about oh tesla, if you are shopping for a home realtor dot com's real choice financing now gives you more ways to afford a home. >> downpayment assistance since

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legal consultation. again, that's 1807123800 nation. >> we're going to see what it years on the richie claims everyone is an exponent 76 is next plays as box coverage begins tonight at 6:30. >> nba playoffs presented by google pixel with around one coverage presented by nerdwallet on tnt welcome back to cnn special live coverage of donald trump's historic first criminal trial date. five of testimony and his hush money case is now in a break and i just got out of the courtroom myself. cnn's paula reid and phil mattingly are our back and i mean so much to talk about about being in that room. but i will say keith davidson,

obviously crucial witness came to the stand. stormy daniels, attorney. >> and at the very end, some really crucial points are showing all these text messages back-and-forth between stormy daniels, attorney and ami dylan howard, the editor in chief the point blank question asked by mr. steinglass, if you were to close this deal, basically paying karen mcdougal for her story from ami. >> did you have an understanding that this would help candidate trump question mark keith davidson, one word the answer yes. and that's what they're trying to establish again and again. and it was very clear trying to establish that connection that they knew that this was to help the election yeah. >> because of course, this is charged as 34 counts of falsifying business records, who would elevates the entire case to a felony is the idea that this hush money payments specifically to storm again daniels was covered, was made and then covered up to help trump in the 2016 campaign. >> and then there was of course, that exchange with davidson. he's texting someone

sort of joking about that. if karen mcdougal does this deal with ami for story is suppressed and not told that he would be interested in an ambassadorship sort of acknowledging that if ami is to suppress mcdougal's story, that would likely help trump's chances at the poles. >> and that's exactly what, when they were talking about that ambassadorship to the island get really would normally is thrown out of rome. >> well, it's funny because dentitions comments and you know, he's got there under subpoena, but his point was, well well, it's not even really country. it was just a joke and he doesn't offer up. >> this is why i made the joke until he was actually pressured by steinglass and then he said, okay, if karen did this deal, that would help trump kansas city, i knew that and i guess this was my reference to say, well, i should get an ambassadorship out of it. >> so he did ed to be pulled out of him, but he was very clear on what he thought. >> if you're seeing on the screen right now where they're talking about this it was a reference to mr. trump's candidacy that somehow if karen did this deal, karen mcdougal did this deal with ami, that it

would help donald trump's candidacy candidate acknowledgment of what he said was a joke. but if you get underscore is kind of the entire build to that moment, making very clear as policy, we talked constantly about, you mentioned the earlier text messages, extraordinary to go inside one of these deals looks like give me $1 million, give me a column, wants to rectify the career, but doesn't want anything to become public, doesn't want to be in this consulted magazine. >> things for it in normal person, i imagined the jury are extraordinary to actually see play out but getting back to what the core of prosecutor, what prosecutors have alleged and what they're trying to prove. that not only is this falsification of business records, but it is elevated to that in order to try and go after the felony charges that they've put on the board here, right. >> and and you know, it is interesting to the jury themselves, they're watching one of the things in the room. it's a small room, right? and it's an intimate space. you only have about nine rows of reporters and lawyers and then it's right there. so i was my 25 feet from trump himself the

jury, though they sit there and you hear this frenetic typing of the preska. i mean, it's i mean, it's like i get your blood pressure up. people and then the jury there they're just taking it in. >> and i don't mean to imply that they're bored or disengaged. >> quite the contrary, they're very engaged. but they really were engaged in taking get in. there wasn't a lot of note-taking. they were watching the witness, watching the questioners. interestingly, not watching trump nor did they look at him when they came and left the courtroom. i mean, it's as loyal here. what do you read into that? does that instruction on what they should do or well, some of it is instruction because at the outset, the judge told them that their notes should not serve as a transcript if you want an actual tran script of what was said, we will get you a transcript because imagine you'd have 12 different people trying to read their own handwriting, argue about what was said. so he really encouraged them not to take two minutes he notes, or to rely too heavily instead, just take it in like you observe them doing it if you need something read back, you need to transcript. >> we can do that at the very end. >> i know it's interesting to me, they're not looking at trump because because i think

anywhere he goes, he's probably one the most famous people. >> most people have seen it you look at him. so that's interesting that they weren't looking directly at him, but good that they're paying attention to what they're putting it out. evidence we should note if any, a transcript they could also get your notebook because you came back and i believe took word for word the entire morning and proceeds vague question though, because we were focused this one morning about eric trump actually being in the quarter. >> we saw him walk out. we've seen him kind of in and out with the former president. of course, today you haven't seen family up to this point. is there interaction? where's he said, how does that all work? >> yes. this was the first time i understand that eric trump had been in the room. so what it is is that the prac comes in, they're seated, lawyer sort of come in and then it's like a it's like a wedding per session. okay. incomes defense. i mean, this is literally how it goes. there's an order of affairs and you come in and they he doesn't look one way or the other. he comes in and then he went eric trump was sitting in the front rows where family and lawyers consent. and eric trump was there and donald trump turned to talk to his

son, a personal moment and had a chance to ask me, how are you doing? having interaction. and did turn to interact with the sun and then he goes in front of a little low barrier and sits in his seat where he basically remains the whole time our sitting there? >> yeah, our sun. it's it's got to feel good to have at least one family member being a criminal defendant, as i've said, it's one of the most stressful things you can possibly go through. >> and all the problems prosecution alleges all of these hush money payments were made to help trump in the 2016 campaign has defense attorneys will argue that they were done to protect his family. of course eric is now one of his four adult children, baron, i guess he's now technically adult about to graduate from high school, which trump will be able to attend. right. but it is notable that he finally has one member his family because of course, his wife has not attended any of this understandable, given the given the subject matter and also her overall nature. but it's the only one of his children we've seen so far. that's right. course, meloni, his name was brought up today, stormy daniels named karen mcdougal. all of it. >> and we should say as you see

on the bottom of your screen, trump removes a social media post that violated the gag order from truth social, it was well, the first thing is the judge did today was to rule on that and i believe it's $9,000 and fine for each of the violations which he found, all of them except for but there were a couple that he said did not violate, but the large majority of them. and i will say that went without fanfare reaction from tom. nobody even batted an eye at that, but he has removed them and compliance with that gag order. so of course, paul fill that paula, phil and i are going to be here through the afternoon and stay with cnn, please, for our special coverage so trump hush money. >> trial gavel to gavel coverage. the way only cnn can bring it to you, legal insight, expert analysis and real-time updates live from the courtroom follow the facts, follow the testimony, follows. cnn this looks like an actual florida you don't that i meanwhile, at

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if you or a loved one have mesothelial, will send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to one 4,000 welcome back to cnn's special coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial in new york. the former for president just deleting social media posts that had violated the judge's gag order, max, which are back with analysis and david chaldean what they were ten violations, nine violations, but won. the judge saw one was not necessarily a violation of the gag order but he did say that the violations of the gag order had to be deleted. >> that's right that trump did that within a half an hour, 9,000, $9,000.01 for each of the nine violations fine assessed and they had to be taken down by 2:15 p.m. eastern today, meanings now one 40 right? so our intrepid embed reporter with the trump campaign, kate sullivan scrubbing the truth, social

website, and everything throughout the day to see when they come down and is reporting now, they have been taken down specifically, all nine instances that judge merchan intended to. and this is because if you follow the logic through the order of the violation the gag order it would be a repetitious process of continuing to violate the gag order if this if these comments remained in the public domain and potentially could be. i know the jurors have been born to stay away from everything, but talking about jersey could get in into their viewpoint somehow. certainly some of the other people that were that fit the violation order. if this remained in the public domain, it was as if the violation was ongoing. so not just the fine, but also we're hearing let me know on thursday thursday at how does this play in the thursday's hearing on for additional alleged violations of the judge's gag. >> well, presuming that he does not trump does not violate

between now and then the idea. and this might be a bit presumption, but the allegations that predated the judge's order of punishment right now, i would find it brand likely that you'd punish him additionally, for these four maybe the fines of thousand dollars each as a finding of a violation of the gag order. but wouldn't be a graduated step beyond the fine because he had to first and most cases give notice to the bending of what you're you heard from a judge talking earlier about this continuum are the force continuum meaning i'm going to begin here and as you begin to violate my now order, i'm going to accelerate and heightened what your exposure is. >> these are already in the past, already having been saying, which gives because you pause to understand why the judge would have taken even this long to decide which clearly had not been an issue in contention, except for the one post that was about what the judges saying you're able to respond to political attacks all of them are not. but if it's a political attack,

you're able to respond, which is probably leading to trump's ears. >> they i'm a candidate. i want a little to respond to these things, but i wonder if there's enough clarity for him. to go forward and say, well, hold on, this is political and this is not what the judge actually threatened incarceration. incarceration for trump, if he continues to violate the gag order, judges putting them on notice. he's telling them this is in play, right? i think he's making a point here and the line in the sand to lower is mine was drawn today anything that donald trump does from at the time that that order was issued at 9:30 this morning on i think is going to be treated differently by the judge. the judge did not say i definitely will lock you up. the judges being careful here, but the judges reminding donald trump, i do have this enforcement tool in my tool belt and i might use it if necessary. also, i should say it's good to see order prevail here. the judge said, you have to take them down by two 15 they were taken down. i'm not saying donald trump deserves bravo for that, but it's good to see that when the judge issues an order, it's actually complied with. that's the way an ordinary trial doesn't

should work. the question is what happens going forward? and michael cohen has said he's not going to do social media anymore. until attacking from attacking trump's. so we'll see if that holds. and then trump on pete won't be responding to michael cohen but the question is, what is it's donald trump? do kenny police himself late at night? i see often tweets or dose truth, social, and his attorneys seemed to have no control over this? and so the fine of $1,000 per proposed doesn't really mean much to donald trump so i think incarceration would but the? question is, how does he start behaving and does this really have any impact going forward? >> sorry. his behavior didn't seem to help them so much in the civil trials against e. jean carroll. and it seems to me, since this while we've been

waiting for the judge's decision on this, it does seem that donald trump has started in his public comments being much more in the political realm than in the attacks related to this day. >> he's remember his big grief are one of the grievances was that book i'm running for office and i can't attack those who attacked me politically on the one hand, by the judge, not really a splitting the baby. i mean, nine saying you violated in one thing you did not but it does in many ways undermine some of the rhetoric that trump is going to say about this, judge. he is allowing you to engage in a retort of a political attack to your larger point, but you cannot engage in behavior is going to threaten an intimidate a witness, which is as it should be or speak about the jury. right. i mean, you know, who would trump the responding to if he criticizes the jury is a bunch of liberal damage procrustes nobody so that is the most serious offense. if you asked me and there's no political reason that he would be doing that there then to make a point in case he loses a

case. >> all right, guys, everybody standby. there's a lot more we're watching right now. of course, set to resume. in a matter of just a few minutes. our special live coverage, we'll continue right after this every piece of evidence tells a story. how would really happy jesse l. martin, sunday's at night? on cnn old spice gentleman super hydration, body wash. and now that is 24/7 moisture rotation with vitamin b3 are you all the old spice if you're living with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis for active psoriatic arthritis. >> symptoms can sometimes take you out of the moment now, they're sky rosie. so you can show off with clear skin and

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brain health challenge rafael romo at the georgia state capitol in atlanta. >> this welcome back to cnn special coverage of the historic donald trump along with wolf blitzer in our nation's capital. >> and just moments, the former president will be back in the courtroom and the prosecution will resume questioning. a key attorney at the center of this case, keith davidson keith davidson began his testimony this morning. he represented both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels two women who said they were paid to stay silent about alleged affairs with donald trump, wolfe, lots of drama unfolding today. erin, before davidson took the stand this morning, jurors heard from the banker who says he had wittingly structured the stormy daniels hush money payment also today as the new york times reports, trump is frustrated

with his own lead defense attorney. trump was hit with a $9,000 fine for nine social media posts that violated the judge's gag order. he has just taken down those posts as ordered. let's start right now with some of the major takeaways from the testimony. very dramatic testimony so far today, our senior legal analyst, elie honig is over the magic. well, elie walk us through what we learned from the testimony so far today. >> so busy morning, they prosecution has put on four witnesses already, even before the lunch break. now, the day started out with gary farro in the standings, a banker from first republic bank. and let me show you why his testimony was really important to this case. the way the payoff to stormy daniels worked as first michael cohen directly paid stormy daniels through her attorney, $130,000, and then later donald trump through his businesses repaid michael, i went through a series of checks. this is the crux of the crime that happened here. the allegation is a structured this to make it look like legal fees rather than a

hush-money pay off. this witness, gary farro testified in detail about this money the way michael cohen got that money by taking out, drawing down on his mortgage. and the way michael cohen came to him with a sense of urgency needed to get this money. and we know the reason why was to make this payoff to stormy daniels. then we heard from two witnesses, one from c-span and one from a court reporting company. the reason prosecutors called these witnesses is simply as vehicles to get videos and depositions in front of the jury, and then they started to show some of those videos to the jury. for example, one clip from october 2016 when donald trump on c-span said, quote, i have no idea who these women are, no idea who these women are. we know that ended up being false, and so prosecutors are going to argue, gee, why would he be untruthful about whether he knew who these women are, those the second and third witnesses and finally, we left off at the lunch break with the fourth witness of the de on the stand. and this is keith davidson.

now, he's an attorney who represented both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. and the reason he's really important is here is because in negotiating the deals, the hush money deals with mcdougal and stormy daniels michael cohen dealt with keith davidson. he was not dealing on the mechanics and the logistics of it with mcdaniel mcdougal and stormy daniels. so right now we're in the middle of keith davidson testifying about the negotiations that were happening between him on behalf of these clients and donald trump's camp and with other outlets now, who's next? i suspect keith davidson is going to take the rest of the day or close to the rest of the day with his testimony and cross exam, we don't know. prosecutors have been plant playing it really close to the vest. it feels like they are setting the stage for stormy daniels to take the stand at some point soon, of course, later in the trial, we're looking for at karen mcdougal. prosecutors may call home six could take the stand, and of course, the most important witness will will be michael cohen. lots to wash this afternoon. >> yeah. lots of drama unfolding. elie honig.

excellent report. thank you very, very much, aaron, back to you all right well, if and so here with paula and fill just getting back into the courtroom, you know, it's interesting week people have talked so much about trump's body language and he's very professional and very controlled from, from what i saw. >> he stands when he's told to sandy walks in and it doesn't look one way or the other. it doesn't look like he's happy person, but he certainly isn't making light of it, or a mockery of it or making faces or anything like that. there were times when he would sort of be leaning back, listening head back as people have been talking about, was interesting. is there was a witness from c-span. the whole point of this witness was to bring into evidence a few pieces of video, all of which were trumped at various rallies saying how horrible all these women were in that he's never met any of them who were accusing him of these affairs, never met any of them. they're liars. it's fabricated it basically to play those words again and again this was a very sleepy witness in terms of the audience entails i am well, what you're

saying you it's just, you know, it's there sort of saying exit i mean, we're talking about exhibits. >> just fill for your benefit just so you know, 409 okay. >> so you can imagine how you feel when you're an exit 409 be fair. but then they play a little clip and trump goes from this and listening, not asleep, but leaning in because he has a little monitor right in front of him trump watching, trump. trump watching trump is a fully engaged, very invigorated individual that does not surprise me at all. i have noted two that i believe he has behaved as most defendants are expected to during a criminal trial, but that is certainly a contract as to what we saw in the civil case is just a few blocks from here. his behavior during those proceedings, extremely disruptive, and it did not pay him dividends and long run because he lost that case and he lost that case badly. so it is notable that he is being the consummate executive, a way welcome. ported defendant, if you will,

inside the courtroom because he well, if no on some level that it's not going to play well with the jury. if he starts acting out and he had as you mentioned, interaction with the son eric when he came in and that was that was a personal moment between the two of them and then these interactions with attorneys. and that was constant whispering quick consultations, decision, i think at one point whether todd blanche was going to do a cross-examined termination on a witness who had kept the transcripts of depositions, decided with trump, decided not to so very involved throughout today, but not but there was no testing is at least that i could see from my vantage point between trump and his attorneys, whole notes, the contrast between the former president in this trial and pass trials. i think there's a contrast with the attorneys as well, both in terms of where they came from, the resume, the todd blanche brings to the table here. it's widely regarded. i know elie talks about his time, the sovereign or southern district of new york in the teams that are often put together, there were todd blanche comes from but

also it is just a very different moment. but the stakes are certainly significantly higher given the fact that is a criminal trial. and i think what you see from the president is or foreign president is, at least in some part in potent. that's better need reflective of what is legal team is telling him behind the scenes and approach that they have taken up to this point, he made a great point because if we're talking about tension behind the scenes, the trump legal team, i said this earlier, it's like sand at the beach. it's part of the environment. and as part of the environment for a lot of reasons. one, because it's criminal prosecution, it's inherently stressful, but also the makeup of the trump legal team. they're the folks you see in court, but there's a lot of folks behind the scenes who have a say there's people who were just calling him from random universities, giving him advice. and then the client himself is a very challenging, difficult climb. so there's always tension behind the scenes. it doesn't matter if it's a state-level investigation or supreme court cases where the stakes are incredibly high, there was always tension behind the scenes, but speaking with sources in trump world, i'm told that hand todd blanche to this point, they're fine. obviously, they're in court today. you could see they

togolese comes over and puts his arm from on trump shoulder, sort of in it in a collegial way is how i would best describe it. i mean, like i said, there was certainly not tension visible from where my vantage point yeah. >> i'm told us the usual attentions in trump world is part of the situation. >> and again, todd ishee is really in the top tier of trump lawyers. >> and any suggestion that he's not being aggressive for his client. i just don't buy that because he's not engaging in antics in the courtroom or getting in fights with a judge does not mean that he is not aggressively advocated for his client. we saw and leave it to this case. he filed pretty much every motion you could imagine. just tried to preserve every right. so yeah, i think this might be a little overblown it. >> what did you seem one thing that stood out to me earlier on in this remember when he was referring to trump's mr. president again and again and again, it was reprimanded for doing that today. >> he he did it once, corrected himself and said mr. trump and then he used the words president trump to refer to trump in the context of he was referring to something trump and posted while president so it was very clear he wanted to do it when he could, but he was

respectful of what the judge had said and that that that sort of respect in the courtroom, the decorum of the courtroom, that was very much at play today. and you could feel it from all aspects, including the jury, which was so very good shot and people would say, well, that's a very small observation that you have in your notebook, which is very fulsomely filled that i think it captures the balance. right between client and court. the case that's actually at hand here, the stakes that they're actually dealing with. and also, i think there's a recognition politics are very point in terms of what type blanche has been confronted with in his cross and in his opening up to this point, remember what's coming. there will be plenty of opportunity given some of the witnesses since we expect certainly michael cohen potentially stormy daniels as well for as much aggression as a lawyer can possibly put on the table and how he actually formulates that, and what the at least the start of this has been. we've talked so much about the prosecution can setting the foundation for what's to come, how much is todd blanche setting the foundation for what the defense is going to be doing over the coming weeks in mind is crucial, and at least today it's very clear they're

trying to put michael cohen on an island if operating on his own by his own volition. i mean, you could even get that feel despite non-confrontationa l style by blanche today of what they're trying to do. >> all right. well we continue to be here outside the courthouse, wolfe back to you all right. >> aaron. thank you. i want to bring in jury consultant than attorney renata us to be able are nato. thank you so much for joining us, help us better understand a bit how the jurors inside the courtroom are likely to be processing all of today's pretty dramatic testimony yeah. >> i mean, look, i think they're going through a lot of mechanics today, quite frankly, it's not the sexiest testimony. i mean, that's coming when michael cohen gets on the stand. and of course, stormy daniels, but of course they have to go through all this, but my understanding from trump's defense and from the opening statement, he's going to say, well, i didn't know anything so fine. there were financial trends sanctions, and there were banking records that are going to be introduced, but that all he will say, he will argue goes to michael cohen. it has nothing to do with him how do you keep the jurors were not

focused and engaged while some of these smaller name witnesses and technical procedures to enter evidence into the court actually play out for, the bigger name witnesses, the stars, if you will, like stormy daniels and michael cohen actually take the stand. well, you got to keep it moving and i think that's what you're seeing the prosecutors doing. they note they have to do this. these are pieces of evidence that they need to complete their case. and i think for the defense attorneys also, you're not going to really the harp so much on these witnesses. you're going to move through them quickly. you're going to meet, make the points you need to make for your summation. remember you're constantly thinking about what you have to argue in summation to make your case for both sides. so that's what they tried to do with these witnesses. >> as you know, the jury heard directly from gary farro, the banker who said michael cohen actually deceived him about the stormy daniels payment they will hear that cohen later pleaded guilty to charges connected to that transaction. if prosecutors use cohen as a

witness, how do they overcome the potential credibility? issues? >> wow, that's why they fronted it in their opening statement. i mean, that's what you have to do whenever you put on any type of cooperating witness, you know, they're going to be coming with baggage. they obviously will pleaded guilty to something they have made may have lied other times. so i think they did a pretty good job fronting it, but they're going to say, look, we're not going to ask putin like michael cohen, but when it comes to this, you should believe him and why should you believe him? because there's other information that corroborates what he's telling you based on your experience, renata, what's the impact of trump's son, eric, being there today? do jurors take note if a defendant's family shows up or not. >> 100% we would always encourage people to have support family members, friends, whoever you can bring to the courtroom, because jurors are looking at those people and they want to know that look, the person's family is standing behind them. they have friends, they have

supporters, and that means a lot to a jury in terms of sort of judging the character of the person who's on trial. now, i realize it's a little different when somebody who is known to everyone, but it's always a good thing to have some support in the courtroom because jurors do techno. >> yeah, lawyers always tell the defense defendants if you could bring your wife, your kids, your family, and that probably will help you with the jury now let's to be a thank you so much for your expertise. >> thanks. well, and still ahead, we're going to have much more analysis with our panel of legal and political experts who are with me plus happening now, protesters around the lawn over at the university of north carolina at chapel hill. we ever reported there on the ground will give you the very the latest when we come back a florida man is hospitalized infected with anthrax sunday this became the bureau's number one crying to solve how it really happen with jesse l. >> martin sunday at nine on cnn

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>> be there with three, learn more at rnc.com, there's nothing better than a subway series foot-long, except we got a new foot-long psychic like, do. >> you, eat chicken and bacon ranch with $102 footlong chr2 is the best psaki i've ever had. hurts my feelings every epic foot-long. >> the perfect sayyed kick i'm omar jimenez at columbia university. >> and this is cnn we're following the breaking news and the donald trump hush money trial in new york. the former president is back in the courtroom today judge merchan is back on the bench. keith davidson has just been called back to the stand. our panel of experts back with us elliot williams, let me start with. you. have is keith davidson testing? i'm one for the prosecution's case. it's very important test my bot for a big reason in general, valuable witnesses are ones that had proximity to either defendant or critical witnesses and keith davidson having been attorney to two major witnesses here, can't speak to the particulars of his legal representation.

that's protected by attorney-client privilege. but things like when we're stormy daniels and/or stephanie clifford paid and how and how we're they contracted with the trump organization? it's relevant evidence for the trial, something we're seeing a lot of today is that witnesses have to establish not just the sexy details that may come into the newspaper, but the entire factual record and that includes how a criminal scheme as alleged worked, and that's a very important purpose of them like that concert, is it unusual for a lawyer to be testifying because usually there are legal boundaries as far how far a lawyer can could actually get into a courtroom and testify. >> it is unusual, wolfe and in this case, what they're doing, it peers in order to protect the attorney-client privilege because let's remember, mr. davidson represented both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, is they're not going into those conversations. what a you, mr. davidson discuss with your client instead of talking about what did you discuss with michael cohen, which is not protected by the privilege. and that's really

keep davidson's relevance here. michael cohen handled his dealings with stormy daniels and karen mcdougal through keith davidson. i think the key sort of battle line here is gonna be to what extent was michael cohen acting on donald trump's behalf, but working out the details on his own and to what extent was michael cohen working out those details with donald trump's knowledge? because this case all it was down to the details specifically, how was this funded? how is it accounted and have done shop knows that stuff. he's gonna be guilty. and if he does not know it then we could have a different verdict hearing constantly and you know, this to that michael cohen has all this documentation and all these receipts. i would assume if indeed he does, it is to get it that point right? that that's what the prosecution will use beyond michael cohen's testimony to actually prove donald trump's involvement. but it seems to me it's a big bet on the prosecution's part here because it might be an in each of these instances very

difficult given the way trump operates to get trump's actual should the question has to be asked, did michael cohen ever talk about the boss as he called them and what would make the boss happy and what wouldn't and sort of whether keith davidson says that it was very clear that michael cohen was acting on behalf f of donald trump. >> and i'm sure they're going to try and get to that with keith davidson, who in a way will corroborate michael cohen because he'll talk about the dealings they had, et cetera but i think the real question will be did michael cohn make it clear to you? that he was acting on behalf of donald trump or did you just assume that an assumption can be enough depending on how assumption isn't it really just gets down to how much the jury believes what their toll does the witness testimony they've received seem credible to them? and are there enough

other documents and things in cspan videos and so on in the record that can help establish and good allow them to trust what the prosecution wants them to do. now, certainly, michael cohen's being on the record saying that donald trump, please pay this money to hide this porn star information from voters. of course, that's what prosecutors want. but you can also get there with what's called circumstantial evidence there were just being told by our folks who are inside the courtroom that trump is sitting back in his chair looking up at the messages on the screen being showed to keith davidson, he is intermittently commenting to todd blanche, one of his attorneys, to david's question generally or the whole trick here for prosecutors is to corroborate, to backup michael cohen every single place that he can if he said that we order pizza for lunch, that de and you have a receipt showing they pizza. >> it's irrelevant, but you still want that because you need to bolster him as much as possible and might take so far. is that michael cohen is substantially correct? robert rated, but not necessarily all the way corroborator. there's going to have to be some leap

of faith by the jury. and the key question, there's no question at all. michael cohen was acting on donald trump's behalf. but was michael cohen just telling trump? i got it. you don't worry yourself about the details or was michael saying to donald trump? okay. we're structuring it this way. we're going to say their attorney bernice fees and donald trump say, yeah. okay, great. those are the two different stories here. and i see we're getting some of the texts. davidson texan howard, i can't quote. i can't believe they are asking me to go back for another 25, meaning $25,000 the deal is accepted at 1:50 k can you do that? dylan howard, of course, worked at ami fire senior editor, the national enquirer? yes. >> there is a tape recording of donald trump talking to michael cohen about the, uh, hundred and $50,000 that mcdougal thing, you know? saying something to the effect of what's it going to cost 150. so i'm sure that'll be important in this guy tape is so important, it's clear that up probably later and you can look at that, dave, it's public. i think cnn broke the

story. if i remember, it's on the internet and you can look at that tape and they're going to argue it both ways. it sounds trump knows some of the details. so that'll be good for the prosecution. but the defense will say, look at this tape, trump is just sort of deferring to michael. i don't know. i'm fine with the payment. you handle the nuances, but the fact that he knew about it and moved it is important, valuable to the prosecutor's. yes. and we know that the prosecutor the attorney, joshua steinglass, is continuing his questioning of keith davidson right now. we're going to continue to monitor that everyone standby much more coming up still ahead, how the trump camp, sir, reacting to today's testimony, will get more on that when we come back so it's the playoffs, great teammates trust each other. we're going to do a trust stand up, trust. >> what you're let's send me up doc told the news a dummy

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they become centers of their communities. real solutions for kids and communities at aft.org oraa ring i'm caitlin polantz at the federal court in washington. >> and this is cnn welcome back to our special live coverage of donald trump's historic first criminal trial, right now, keith davidson, an attorney who represented stormy daniels and a karam google is back on the witness stand. mark lauder is a former special assistant to president trump, who also served as trump's 2020 director of strategic communications and he joins me now and mark them. i'm glad to see you again. and good to be with you this afternoon. so you know what what do you make of what we're seeing so far today? you know, just being in the courtroom with trump mark one thing that stood out to me you know, we did, in iraq. he said, how are you doing? >> we know when when i saw him

this morning, it's a small room he's certainly there's times he appears maybe board, but anytime anything is interesting, he perks up, he's paying attention, he's engaged to use clearly aware of the seriousness of the moment, at least in terms of behavior i saw. you taking it seriously. >> does anything stand out to you about how he is conducting himself and his comportment at this point? >> no, i think he understands what this trial is really all about. it's keeping him off the campaign trail. and so he's going to make sure that he doesn't provide additional fodder. and what is focused on is what he talks about it during the breaks before and after the hearing, and not necessarily on every moment of every reaction during all the back-and-forth three neizha during the legal proceedings mark right at the beginning before the jury came in, they take care of some business and one of the things the judge judge marchand, and just to

give a sense where there's judge marchand and then, you know, ten or 15 feet away as trump. >> i mean, it's a very intimate setting. >> and so he rules on a few things and asieh few questions they're making arguments on some upcoming issues. >> the gag order, though, when that ruling came down and he literally it's very surgical and the sense okay. on, you know, number three and four, i'm finding you 1,000 each and four through 10,000 each. the not on one and it just was it just was very quick and very professional and not a reaction from trump at all. and now those truth social posts that were subject to the gag order had been already removed during the lunch break by trump's team so you know how he feels about the gag order. we all know he's livid, he's angry, but he did control himself in that room. i mean, there wasn't even a blink from anybody just happened. okay. $9,000. move on. >> i think to a certain extent, he realizes he's winning right now. i mean, when you look at all the poles that are coming out, despite the fact that we've done this now for three

weeks, donald trump's lead is growing in the polls over joe biden, leading in the swing states. and so if he can just obviously continue doing what he's doing, the legal side, they're probably feel like they're winning that two. and so they just continue just basically blocking and tackling, doing the basics. he comes out of this even though it's not the ideal situation, he comes out of this winning so how do you think he sees another thing that happened today is they're going to have a whole bunch of days off. trump does get a day off number. he had said, oh, they're denying me a day off for my son's graduation, which was not true. and today the judge said, well, now it appears this case we'll be going through that time. so of course you're gonna have your son's graduation off and other attorney needs a day off said if the trial is still going on, then you'll get a day off. that's all the way out in june 3 juror has to going away on a trip on a friday at 11. so the court gets put on recess it just extends all this out and makes the trial go longer. how how much of an impact does that have on him mark in terms of campaigning, right as this

continues to drag further and further out well, and obviously keeps him off the campaign trail at least three, four days a week, depending on the trial schedule. >> but as we see tomorrow, he's headed to met to michigan and wisconsin. he'll have a rally or for events over the weekend. so he's making the best of this situation. it doesn't surprise me that the liberals and democrats want to drag this thing out as long as humanly possible, because it does keep him under a gag order and keep him off the campaign trail. but right now the way the polls look, that's actually turning to be in favorable for donald trump. i think he's maximizing it and so let this thing continue on. but the sooner it ends, the better well, and i'll say in terms of dragging it out, just the logistics of that courtroom, the two dates requested were both from the trump team. >> so in terms of the logistics of who's responsible for dragging it out, it is it is the defense, not the prosecution, at least in terms of the days that were approved today, that i saw i am curious

though, mark, as to your perception of his ability to campaign. it is a grueling experience to sit in that courtroom and it is grueling for him. its grueling for everybody in there so how does he manage to do that? he's got to sit there. he's got to be paying attention, which he is. then all of a sudden you have a day off and you're supposed to go out in the campaign chairman, there's only so long that anybody can withstand that and that's the situation of these in yeah. >> i mean, i wouldn't say it. put it this way. i mean being president and then campaigning and sitting through all of those meetings in the oval office, the situation room, all of the various things you have to do when you're president and then turning around, heading out and turning it on to be in a campaign rally, since that's gotta be pretty taxing as well. so i think he's probably more than capable of doing that. again, not the ideal situation, but i think he's making the best of it. and i have a feeling you're going to see a lot more campaign events around new york where even on the days when he is in trial, gets him out there amongst the people, among the adoring folks out there. and it

gives him a shot to possibly put new york in play. >> well that i think would be that would be a true seismic event much bigger than the earthquake we all experienced recently. >> all right. mark. thank you very much. and still ahead, we are watching multiple protests right now. i college campuses across the country, demonstrations growing at the university you have north carolina at chapel hill right now and at ut austin continuing after such a major day yesterday, our teams are on the ground at these crucial spots. >> stay with us every piece of evidence tells a story how would really happen jesse? >> oh, margaret, sunday's at nine on cnn with armor all a little bit of this protects you from a lot of that armor or

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billion in trust money has been set aside. >> you may be entitled to a portion of that money, paul, when 8085920400. that's when 8085920400 we are watching dramatic developments unfold at college campus protests nationwide right now, wolfe, i want to get right to seeing there's dianne gallagher. >> she's on the scene for us at the university of north carolina at chapel hill. these are live pictures. we're showing our viewers right now. diana update our viewers all right. >> i cannot here on ifp anymore, but i'm assuming that you are on our pictures right now. what i can tell you is that this is a very intense escalation from how it has been for the past several hours, there was a rally and silent vigil for palestine that occurred for several after they i don't know if you can see right now, they're taking the palestinian in flag down off the ball, which was put up

there about 30 minutes or so ago by protesters, they took the american flag down, raised the palestinian flag about five minutes or so ago we saw a large group of police officers come down polk place and just sort of come for the students who had interlocking arms around this flag pole. it appears they're trying to remove the palestinian flag and re raise an american flag up on this flagpole here. but with the force that this was done, pushing down students some into these barricades that were placed up this morning after police cleared an encampment that had been here on polk place for about 90 hours. a university of north carolina sent an email and i sent out a paper statement basically warning the students said 5307 this morning, they had to clear the encampment by 6:00 a.m. many of the students we spoke with said that they were sleeping and did not know until

some faculty came down about ten minutes before six to get out, according to the university, about 30 people were detained. i spoke with the district attorney. he said that is a mix of arrest and citations talking to students. they say that again, they were very surprised by this. they felt that it had been a very peaceful encampment up to that point, the university of north carolina says that they were violation of negotiations that have been ongoing by putting tense back up on sunday afternoon. >> the university students who were at the encampment told me today that they felt like there was no real negotiation with the university. >> they felt like this was more of a one-sided conversation. they had taken the tenths down twice already, but there had been no real discussion with the university. those students say about their demands of divestment and disclosure of finances. now, they say that that is why they put those tense back up on sunday

afternoon. what the university deemed does that violation? for them to go and clear the encampment this morning? the students again saying there was no real honest negotiation they felt with the school and that was why they kept those up. now, again, this is an intense escalation from what we saw just 20 minutes ago or so, there were students dancing and chanting. you can now hear other students coming and staying usa, usa we're seeing more students now come to holy place. this sort of green area where we'd actually been seeing a decrease in people out here. they were finishing for the day we had lots of speakers out here earlier that we were listening to roughly five or six hours after many of those people who were either arrested or cited were released. now they put barricades up after the encampment was cleared this morning, and we did see these

protesters. you can see there's a couple of skirmishes over here. >> we did see those protests are sort of remove those barricades after several hours first of that, protests and silent vigil to come and take down the american flag, put up the palestinian flag, and continue their chance. >> everything that we have observed today from about noon on has been incredibly peaceful and very low key for the most part up until we saw the officers run across this lawn here eric that is really the most intense energy that we have felt i'm i'm gonna let you kind of look at what is going on again here, but it does appear they're just trying to raise this american flag up. i'm gonna get my photographer westboro is just sort of show the growing number of students that is starting to come here to pull place. now, again, this is not what the situation necessarily look like just a few moments ago here at the university of north carolina all right. >> dianne gallagher showing us these images of course, at the

beginning when we were seeing those police have come in to try to reach voice that american flags, some of those images diane had were really dramatic. kids sort of being if thrown out from that coordinate of police officers from what we could see, a few of them. and now chanting and it looks like a police are we raising that american flag a very dynamic situation at unc chapel hill are dianne gallagher is there were to be checking back in with that here over these next few moments. and we'll be right back we're here to get your side of the store. a bribery, prostitution. >> why do we keep ending up here? >> you can't write this stuff. >> united states of scandal with jake tapper now streaming on macs kinda riva support your brain health. mary janet, hey eddie, know, fraser, franck, frank bred. how are you? >> fred fuel up to seven brain health indicator bitters including your memory, joined the neretva brain health

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with the oraa ring i'm melanie zanona in washington and this is cnn welcome back to cnn special coverage of the donald trump hush money criminal trial court is in session right now.

>> prosecution witness keith davidson is on the standards. the fourth witness of the day to testify. our panel is back for us, keith davidson said the course of the testimony today that he actually received 45%. in his pocket, 45% of the hundred and $50,000 deal with karen mcdougal. that's a healthy cut. i mean, that's more than plaintiff's lawyers usually take, right? >> it's usually one-third. it's sort of inched up to 35% in some areas. and the point of that is that he had his own self-interest and this and i think that plays into what the cross is going to be of him, which ultimately is going to establish the people who were pulling off these deals, whether it was michael cohen, david pecker, keith davidson were all self-interested. we're all duplicitous to an extent, and i think what the defense is going to want is the jury to say who can trust any of these people? now the prosecution though, is saying, look these people are the most lovely folks, but they're telling you what they did. their stories are backing one another up and there are documents. here's payoff payments, here's invoices, here's contracts

that back this all up. so i think that's the fundamental conflict we're seeing here. >> and something prosecutors will be certain to say, or at least imply is that the mere fact that big dollar amounts get involved doesn't necessarily mean that the behavior is more shady. you're judging conduct under new york state law and if there were payments made and misrepresented and records for the purpose of concealing them from from from voters. that's the crime and set aside what you think about the money and the porn stars and all that business i my question is, this is, as we discussed during jury selection, azure, a well-educated manhattan jury, immediate savvy, couple lawyers are they do they really is this jury going to be impacted the way other juries might by unseemly characters? >> or are they a little jaded to this? i'm just understand that some unseemly characters are part of the equation is the answer. >> well, i can, i practice in front of manhattan? it's the latter and that's a great point that david makes manhattan juries are pretty sophisticated and they're,

they're not pearl cultures, they're not gonna be like horribly offended by the notion of payoffs and they get, you know, they read the tabloids. so i actually think that's an important nuance here. i think that could help the prosecution that they're not gonna be oh, my i'm so offended. >> so sleazy. i can deal with their new york times or fine. the thing that davidson does is he corroborates david pecker. yeah and that's important because pecker corroborates michael cohen and what he also does and he did on the stand is make the case that he knew that this story was not going to be published, and that he knew and he gave two explanations for it. >> one was to build her brand so she wouldn't get tarnished by it. and the other reason he said is that there was a close affiliation between david pecker and donald trump, that ami would not run this story. so he also knew, or is saying that donald trump somehow was

involved and knew about the deal to silence this case, to quash it, right. to not tell the story and so that's more corroboration in a way that donald trump was involved in all of this and knew about it and was aware of it. is keith davidson's testimony setting the stage for stormy daniels testimony? >> i answer. good way to think about it, and it's almost as if crafting a narrative. it makes sense for prosecutors to have the broader witness a witness. i think one step further removed from the defendant who can sort of lay the stage for stormy daniels is testimony. then once jurors have somewhat of an understanding of how the transaction worked and how things played out. then you could go to the more specific witness and get her testimony. so i think it is sort of laying groundwork his testimony also is making michael cohen unlikeable it is and some of that might be a deliberate attempt on the part of the prosecutors to acknowledge that they have a witness that has some credibility as she's now again, this is a witness whose

testimony is likely to be supported by other witnesses testimony and documents, and so on. but something they have to confront is the fact that that cross-examination of michael cohen's it's going to be pretty weathering. and so it is in their interest to be the ones to put that on the record and not give that grounded. the defendant is i can just because i'm seeing the updates here, there's testimony now that stormy daniels manager called him and was summed, quote, some jerk called me some jerk, and was very, very aggressive and threatened to sue me. and then davidson can confirm that the jerk in question was michael cohen to eliot's poetry in relation to that 2011 blog post that appeared about stormy daniels and potentially having a relationship with donald trump and michael cohen is lighting up the world on fire of anyone belated stormy daniels to try and get this blog post taken care of and obviously, he was not at all pleasant to deal with. he was screaming i don't think he was accusing us of anything. he was just screaming davidson sense and then according to our

reporters inside the overflow room are watching this there was laughter in the overflow room when this testimony came up because everybody recognizes that michael cohen behavior, anybody who knows michael recognizes the behavior. and by the way, that's behavior that donald trump might say is okay because he likes aggressive lawyers and michael cohen was aggressive to the extreme things. >> i cohen has said that sat as much that that is the kind of behavior that the former president valued now, but just a little bit of trial psychology here. imagine if all of this information first came out on the cross-examination of michael cohen if someone put them on the standard set, i'm going to read you messages and text messages that say you're a jerk. do you know about the end? >> it's psychologically for the journey? >> it's very different than having the prosecutors control how the information comes out so that it feels we're not as bad later on everybody stand by. we're going to take a quick break much more of our special coverage continuing right after this a florida man

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prosecutors are still questioning the attorney keith davidson, who represented both karen mcdougal and stuff fermi daniels. he helped facilitate both of their hush money deals tied to alleged affairs with donald trump, aaron wolf davidson is the fourth witness of the day, and it was a day that started with trump being held in contempt, find $9,000 for violating the gag order nine times $1,000 per violation. i'm joined again by paula reid and phil mattingly. and paula. interesting some of the the, context from the room right now, is davidson's continuing to testify is that he's turning toward the jury. of course, he's an attorney. yeah. and he knows to do that. but what i found interesting this morning was pretty much all four of the witnesses did. it's very intimate, so it was very natural when asked a question even in this direction to sort of naturally look a little bit at you and then talk to the jury. the other i'm telling a story to the jury. i want to interrupt for one second right now where we keep

davidson on the stand and he is someone who you about the impact, but the access hollywood tape had on interest in the story of one of his clients, stormy daniels. he said, quote, wave the white flag. >> it's over. howard responded to davidson and this is of course, an exchange again about the access hollywood tape. currently david had just texted howard saying trump is f. so they're talking about how the access hollywood tape really changed the calculation in terms of interests in stormy daniels story about an alleged affair with trump, there was this concern that the access hollywood tape would be the end of trump's chances at the white house. and there was this added incentive to suppress negative stories, particularly of a sexual nature. so that's what davidson is texting about right now. and that's really important because in the context of that, right, they realize they've got this huge problem. >> and then the urgency that's what they were laying out earlier this morning with pharaoh. >> the prosecution, the urgency with which michael cohen set up this llc to pay stormy daniels and that from initiation to funding to wire going out, there weren't even 24 for

hours. so they're trying to establish both that all the sudden there was a crisis and that there's a very quick moved in that case to pay off stormy daniels to suppress the story for the campaign then the story that's being told by davidson right now is the genesis of how they got to this point where it has included keith davidson saying there was not actually a lot of interests in this story in the marketplaces are his words about the stormy daniels story prior to the access hollywood tape coming out. and it was when the access hollywood tape came out that the entire dynamic shifted. you remember the prosecution has been talking about this driving towards this point as everything changed, then this is what dramatically changed. this moment for donald trump, for michael cohen, for everybody that was involved in this case. and davidson making very clear if people were aware of issues about the story had been been raised prior. that's when the discussion about michael cohen, michael cohen being a jerk which by the way, i think a lot of us would acknowledge is fairly familiar. michael cohen calling, yelling, being very angry at somebody kind of busy but what changed

was the access hollywood tape and they're making very clear in these text messages that are being read, read that davidson and others thought that trump's campaign was dead in the water. but what changed is the stormy daniels story all sudden got new legs and reached a peak moment for them. >> so what i'm trying to understand and paula though, is the clearly the prosecution is trying to make the case that the karen mcdougal payment they're illustrating this pattern, began. it also seems to go against what they're saying, right? they're saying and they lay it all out there meeting a lot of emphasis on the dates of these text exchanges between karen mcdougal's lawyer, also keith davidson, and ami all in june? yeah. right. well, before any of this, so they're saying well, before any of this hey, am i was willing to pay for a story to help donald trump. but then at the same time they're trying to say, oh, it was all because the access hollywood that's what made it. but that hadn't happened then. so what how does this karen mcdougal situation helped them directly. so karen mcdougal's situation, stormy daniels situation, they are similar and that they both

have stories about alleged faris with trump, but they're different and the karen mcdougal story was bought by the company that owns the national enquirer and then suppressed long before the access hollywood tape. but you can tell from davidson's testimony that they still knew that suppressing that story was helping the trump campaign. what's different about the stormy daniels? a situation is that her story was suppressed through an agreement with michael cohen. michael cohen arranges to pay her effectively hush money. that's not a crime. the issue though is that this was done to help prosecutors allege trump win the election. and also they falsified documents in order to facilitate this payment. so earlier today, we heard from cohen's banker who said, yeah, i thought you were setting up the shell company for a real estate transaction. i had no idea this had anything to do with a porn star. if it did, it would have gotten more scrutiny. so karen mcdougal is brought in to establish a pattern, but it's the stormy daniels hush money payment that is the core of the criminal case here. the criminal case, because of the falsifying docx. exactly. yeah. in are done in

furtherance of an effort to help trump win the white house. and that's what elevates falsifying checks or business records to a felony. the idea that it was done in furtherance of really a federal crime they say again, he's not charged with that. they don't have to prove that. but by saying they're connected, that it was done in furtherance of this. that is how this was elevated to a felony federal crime, of course, which was not charged it's exactly. and that's where things start to get a little tricky in this case. all right. well, thank you, both. wolfe back to you. >> thanks there. and, you know, it's interesting, elliott, they're spending a lot of time talking about the access hollywood video tape, which of course all of us remember. but the judge has ruled they can't show it to the jurors. why? >> because the video itself could be seen as prejudicial to the defendant vacant. speak about what the fact that it existed, the fact that people had reactions to it, that there were communications about the video, there's sort of things we're seeing here, the aftermath and the fallout, but the evidence itself, as conveyed on the video just runs afoul of evidentiary rules and they just don't want to get a

lot of questions about that tape, the impact it could have on the whole situation, certainly he and i know elie honig has had this happen to him to what trial there are there is information that's in the world where you have the words of a defendant, the words of a wetness, a document, a piece of clothing that for whatever reason can't be brought into court it would help your case and would help establish that the defendant the defendant's guilt. >> but for whatever reason he's under whether it's hearsay rules are other rules of evidence or not wanting to unduly prejudice the defendant. it can't come into court and it just had how significant is elie that prosecutors are asking keith davidson, the lawyer, so many questions about stormy well, they're trying to establish a link care, obviously because davidson represented stormy daniels and i think the access hollywood tape is becoming this pivotal moment, right where the prosecutor's argument is, this is where they got really scared for donald trump's electoral prospects. and there's a text that the jury was just showing. we had an update a couple of minutes ago where dylan howard from ami from the company that

publishes, right the national enquirer texts. keith davidson, who store manuals, attorney quote this is the final nail in the coffin referring to the access hollywood tape. now, prosecutors will love that. it's a visceral image that'll stick in the juries had in fact that's your whole argument about the access hollywood tape. if you're the prosecution, that tape when that came out, that was the final nail in the coffin. that's why they were so desperate to pay off stormy daniels. the downside is it's not exactly between the people you want it to be between. it's between underlings is not doesn't evolve. michael cohen does involve donald trump doesn't even involve david pecker, but still, that's a good texts prosecutors pretty bad political analysis. yes. true there was no cholera is a low number daybell. >> a lot of us remember at the time when that access hollywood video tape came out, we all thought it might be the end of the trump campaign. >> we certainly thought it might be. >> it ended up that it wasn't. we all were in this collective moment of holding our breath to see what the report publican party was going to do around him. and at the end of the day, it was not his undoing at the end of that election. you'll

recall in fact, that story broke on a friday. there was a debate on sunday against hillary clinton and donald trump showed up with all of bill clinton's female accusers. i mean, the whole thing was just an insane 48 hours but it does explain the panic. we see this bravado outside, right? and and donald trump coaston debate and he tries to flip the script on bill, hillary clinton. but what, what was going on? inside the campaign was michael cohen's panic. and michael cohen, even though he didn't work for the campaign, he worked for donald trump, but it explains partially why he was so insistent and why they didn't want a deal with him because he got crazy. >> right. and he wanted things done quickly. >> he wanted the karen mcdougal done quickly, but stormy. he was really worried about. >> and it explains it explains

it now, did he go and panic that much on his own? >> was he being directed by donald trump? did donald trump's say to him handle it which is the normal way he would do things that has yet to come out, but it does explain michael cohen's behavior in a way and why he was so crazed just those are the exact questions that juries wondering right now right? >> all right. everybody has snuck around. we've got a lot more to assess. more information is coming in are special coverage will continue right after a quick break. >> every piece of evidence tells a story how we really hundred jesse l. >> martin sunday's at nine on cnn yeah, introducing nets plaque psoriasis. he thinks is flaky red patches are all people see on tesla is the

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testimony in the first criminal trial of former president donald trump is underway right now. keith davidson who was an attorney for both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels is on the stand and joining me now is robert re, former federal prosecutor, who served as donald trump's counsel in his first impeachment trial. so robert, you know, in the courtroom, keith davidson when he came up, he it's clear he he isn't, you know, he's not thrilled to be there, but he knows what he's doing is a lawyer ease addressing the jury. he's answering questions directly and obviously this is a crucial witness for the prosecution. so therefore, the cross examination we'll be very important. >> how do you expect trump's attorneys to cross-examine keith davidson carefully? you know, obviously understanding that left on rebutted they trump attorneys need to make

certain that they get some things that they they they need. on the other hand, you want to be very careful about how you handle that witness. >> i'm not trying to do too much a lot. a witness kinda wander off in areas that potentially could be damaging. so it most lawyers in this situation where you're talking about you know, prior client relationships, i think will be what the answer a very carefully and i think you take that as a given if you're trump's defense lawyers and you tried to make some very limited objectives. and then when you're done, you know, don't prolong the cross-examination. it's time to quit which is i think knowing it's time to quit, it has been interesting and every one of these cases when there's been across, there's been another redirect and then another re-cross. it seems to be just the way this is going again and again robert jareh have also heard more about the access hollywood tape and

michael cohen's fear as concerned about the effect that the stormy daniels story would have on the trump campaign. obviously that we've been talking about this here, the karen mcdougal situation and payment predated the access hollywood tape, right? to god. karen mcdougal, then access hollywood months later, then stormy daniels how do you think that the prosecution is handling this this thus far when they're trying to prove that the stormy daniels case was different in this crucial regard of the urgency with which the campaign felt it had to address this issue in the days before the election i think they're managing it about as well as to be expected. but the facts here ultimately are ones that the jury is trying to evaluate. i mean, they're not going to evaluate how the prosecution handled this. ultimately, i think they're going to have a view about whether those facts add up and our persuasive that to the, the government's case

about what the motivations were by the campaign. and more specifically, since the campaigns on trial, donald trump is about specifically what his intent was and they're trying to create a narrative and a story. >> and you understand why. and they are seeking to introduce evidence with regard to all three of those that you mentioned in that regard, the question is whether or not those facts add up the either do or they don't the prosecution can make that effort. it's the job of the defense to poke holes in that narrative factually, if it can be done to talk about alternatives or at least imply alternatively that there were other reasons why the campaign was doing what it was doing yeah. >> i mean, i guess what i'm obviously the heart of this case is falsification of business documents related to the stormy daniels payment. but this morning they spent a lot of time getting keith davidson to say that he knew that doing a deal for karen mcdougal which

is not obviously the criminal allegation in this case was in and of itself done to influence the election me the direct question to keith davidson about the karen mcdougal payment was if you were to close this deal, did you have an understanding that this would help candidate trump, keith davidson answers in one word, yes and then elaborate. he elaborated on making it clear that he knew it would help trump's candidacy. >> do you think that that's confusing to jurors at all? >> right. because i'm making the point that the karen mcdougal payment was to help trump's candidacy, but then they're not essentially trying to say that there's anything wrong with that in that case i think look, it at one level, aaron. >> i mean, let's just talk about common sense, which is ultimately what a jury of 12 exercise, right? i mean, that's what they're charged with doing. the common sense aspect of this is that you've got to be careful about how far the prosecution takes us at one level, almost anything potentially affects the outcome of a campaign. and all of those

somethings that potentially affect an outcome of a campaign obviously are not illegal. so i think it's going to be tough. this is adina, why there's this. there's a trial for the jury to sort of separate out our is there a zone of facts here which are intended to directly impact a campaign which can constitute the felony component of what otherwise is a misdemeanor documents case, and that will be that will be the issue as the prosecution is trying to shore that up. in these three areas, but you know we have to be careful about how far you take that because again, at a very common sense level anything that anybody does potentially has the effect of impacting a campaign all right robert ray. thank you very much. appreciate your weighing in and we are continuing to following the breaking trial, as well as the breaking news right now unfolding on college campuses across the country, including at the university of north carolina chapel hill with sub

truly intense altercations between police and protesters moments ago, a confrontation between in the two groups over whether the us or palestinian flag would fly from that flagpole on your screen, we'll be back next so this playoffs, a great teammates trust each other. >> we're going to do a trust stand up, trust. >> what you we have done told him he was a dummy hey, hun i'm gonna go grab a pick a team with the guys. >> okay. okay. live it up, taking the car we what have 3d okay. i love you smart lander referred the ultimate smart protection easy removal, cleaning, and install. >> it smart it's smart, liner

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see why comcast business powers more small businesses than anyone else. get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. when others divide. we unite. with real solutions to help our kids. like community schools. neighborhood hubs that provide everything from mental health services to food pantries. academic tutoring to prom dresses. healthcare to after care. community schools can wrap so much around public schools. ...and through meaningful partnerships with families, they become centers of their communities. real solutions for kids and communities at aft.org lunch break. try now for free visit otter.ai, ai or download the app more and liebermann at the pentagon. >> and this cnn in addition to the trump criminal trial, we're also following major breaking news. on college campuses all

across the united states. >> a short time ago, police have pro-palestinian protesters clashed over at the university of north carolina at one point, police were even pushing back some of the demonstrators we just learned the school has now canceled classes meantime dozens of protesters at columbia university in new york remain inside a campus administrative building after breaking inside overnight, we have our correspondence live at both campuses monitoring these late breaking developments for us want to start with cnn's polo sandoval these live over at columbia university polo, i understand students are now being threatened with expulsion, not just suspension, but expulsion for these demonstrations. is that having any effect so far on the protest, there? >> now at is quite wolfe and that thread is aimed directly at the individuals that are occupying the building that you may be able to see over my right shoulder just outside of the perimeter of the columbia university is a pro palestinian

protests, likely sanding marching and solidarity with the industry visuals that are occupying the building on campus, which is the one that you're able to see there. my colleague jeff winter and update actions to speak to one than there's a member of the columbia university apartheid divest, which one of the negotiators was participating in these conversations that finally in estelle made recently mahmoud khalil tele, my colleague, that there are some members of his organization that are actively participating in the occupation of that historic craig hamilton hall, khalil also adding that whatever happens next is entirely in the hands of the university. >> and he also said another thing that's quite interesting here kahlil telling cnn that he is calling on negotiations to resume between the people who are inside that building that are in it for the long haul, apparently based on what we saw earlier today, and the university will follow standby. >> i want to go to see this dianne gallagher. she's over at

the university of north carolina, chapel hill. diane, we saw some very heated moments, not that long ago between police and protesters. where you are as university of north carolina what's happening down? >> for now? the police are gone from polk place. we're not sure if they're going to return, but i want you to see what's behind me you mentioned earlier that the university of north carolina sent out a carolina alert canceling classes basically from 3pm until midnight. now, look, this is the last day of classes the police in the video or anything that you saw earlier in the hour coming out here. some of the protesters had taken the original american flag down. they wasted a palestinian flag. they were arm in arm chanting and dancing and protesting. and that's when we saw the police run across polk place, push some of those protesters down, push them out of the way the interim chancellor of the university was also out there with them as they brought the flag. you're seeing now, back

out and raised that flag on this flagpole. >> as, soon as the police were pushed or walked off of this area, we saw some other who appear to be students come here and try and keep that flag up. >> another protester brought it down almost immediately after police left and we now have students who at least for the past 20 minutes or so, i've been holding up the american flag. now again, this all comes hours after there was an encampment that was here for about 90 hours that was cleared by law enforcement, about 30 students detain many of those students, tell me that they felt that it was extremely violent by police in the morning about 6:00 a.m. they got about a 20 minute at best notice. they said the university claims that it is because they erected tense on sunday. the students say that they put those up because there were no true negotiations with the university about their demands for divestment and disclosure. wolfe oh hi diane thank you. dianne gallagher over the university of north carolina in chapel hill, polo sandoval is over at columbia

university. we'll check back with both of you. aaron, lots going on all right. >> well, often i following these latest developments in the trump trial, everyone can see on your screen just sort of our updates a minute by minute. keith davidson still on the stand right now talking with prosecutors, joshua steinglass, doing the questioning for the prosecution qian and you can see this michael cohen's not paying not not paying up on the stormy daniels deal and here it is, davidson's as he comes to believe that cohen did not have the authority to spend the money even though cohen had promised he was going i pay there's no money, there's no money, there's no money. and you're reaching this point where she says she's going to walk. >> this is connecting some of the testimony that we heard earlier. you were in the courtroom when a cohen's banker was testifying about the urgency that cohen came to him with when he set up that second shell company. how he took out a line of credit against his his home and put that get into a shell company which was almost that money was almost immediately sent to mr. davidson. now we have another update. it says, i think you

can tell by these emails i was sending him cohen, there was a great level of frustration by me and my client. so that's davidson talking about their frustration that he and stormy daniels felt with michael cohen believing that they were not going to get paid, which is why they started to raise the possibility that she was going to rename on this whole agreement and possibly go public with her story. so as prosecutors here setting up why cohen had to move so quickly and reminding everyone why they were such a concern right now about stormy daniels story getting out the access hollywood tape just come out about a week prior. the election is just a few weeks away. suddenly there is a lot of incentive for cohen and possibly for trump to suppress daniel story. so that's what they're getting mr. davidson to talk about right now. that's specific point in time. right. and building up really the intensity that was in that moment in a sense, what they're trying to build up pressure that was on michael cohen to deliver because at this point, we're there right now. he was failing he was failing to deliver at repeatedly and the stormy daniels story might be about to explode onto the

scene. >> that is what's interesting is there's one exchange where cohen says to davidson he expressed his frustration is what would he took me to do? my guys in five states today talking about then candidate trump and we all remember this last weeks of the campaign, or at least i do have been on that kid covering it over the plane was quite literally hitting three, four, or five states a day. and that was when davidson comes back and says, this is what tells the prosecutor. this is when he concluded that cohen did not have the authority to actually spend the money. and i think one of the big questions is we get another update says asked he thought daniels would ever see the money. davidson says, never prior to the funding know and i think that underscores at the skepticism that it just continued to build after missing deadline, after deadline, after deadline and that cone didn't have the authority, but also underscoring what you see the other side of that, which is what the testimony when you're in the courtroom earlier, the urgency that cohen was feeling as the real possibility of them turning away from this agreement was razzie. >> all right. as we're speaking there has been a post on trump's truth, social.

>> so if someone's post, i don't know how this is happening because he's actually in the courtroom, but he has just posted this judge has taken away my constitutional right to free speech. >> free speech is all in caps. i'm the only presidential candidate in history to be gagged caps this whole quote, trial is rigged. and by taking away my freedom of speech, now we're all caps to the end. those highly conflicted judge is rigging the presidential of 2024 election election interference now, the context here is he's been fine $9,000 from nine violations of the gag order. not as many as were alleged, but almost fell if that is one per thousand dollars per violation, he's remove those posts from to social coming out with this one. now, this one slamming the judge. the judge is not subject to the gag order. >> yeah. the good news is that that appear actually, i got it appeared to me within the bounds of the gag order. there are a lot of first put that back up because that's important to emphasize that yeah, he is allowed under the gag order to criticize the judge for the district attorney, alvin bragg. so here

he goes after some of the decisions that the judge has has made, for example, taking away his constitutional right to free speech. well, it's one thing we've learned over the past few months. it's that his right to free speech, even if he is a candidate for the white house, even if it is political speech, a heightened level of protected speech there are limits when you are a criminal defendant. i'm the only presidential candidate in history to be gad. that is true because you were also the only presidential candidate in history to be a criminal defendant. and here the gag order is not meant to restrict his ability to engage in political speech. it is to protect the people who are involved in this process, like the jury, like the prosecutors who were not elected, like de a bragg family members of the judge, and others now, trump and his lawyers have unsuccessfully argued that they should be able to criticize these people. but as we know, this gag order has repeatedly been found. and upheld because there have to be limits on what he says. he's going to go after the jury. there's no way if

this those folks fear for their safety that this process can continue working. >> what paul is saying is that this this appeal here's to be in line with the jaguar that that would be abide by the technical rules because of the inaccurate, but technically in line with the gag order. right. all right. >> paul and paula. thank you very much. and we continue to follow it. follow the second week of this crucial criminal trial, the testimony of donald trump's criminal trial, hush money trial here in new york are special coverage continues, right after this break every weekday morning, cnn's five things has what you need to get going with your day is the five essential stories of the morning in five minutes or less. cnn's five things with kate bolduan streaming weekdays exclusively on macs water would help with this dry spots. that's long disease. >> but scott's healthy plus will cure its lung disease, go down so like other people have it and it's not pick up a bag of the newest got start builder healthy plus lomb through today

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one for we continue our breaking news coverage of donald trump's hush money criminal trial. the courtroom is now in a quick break w back in a few minutes, our panelists here and i've got some major analysis and i'm what your thoughts. everybody stops. first of all, trump is railing against the judge in this case. he posted on his truth social media site this judge has taken away my constitutional right to free speech. i am the only presidential candidate in history to be gagged. this toal trial is rigged. and by taking away my freedom of speech, this highly conflicted judge is rigging the presidential of 2024 election election interference. this is what he posted on truth, social. is this a violation of the gag order? as i read it, it's not the judge was quite explicit that the two people that the foreign president is allowed to attack directly are number one, the judge, and number two, the district attorney, the elected district attorney himself, alvin bragg the foreign

president, has done that. >> their now we can ask the question of whether this is politically wise or good, or how this resonates with voters. but under the law, he's allowed to say those things the gag order allows us would are prevented him from going after court staff courts. the judge, a member of the court's step, he segregated themselves out and said, you can come after me. i am the boss. however, my because it started with the law clerk, the judges career law clerk, that the former president had identified by name and was putting information ancient out about that actually got a lot of unwanted attention toward her way. so the judge made clear staff off-limits. judge, the guy at the top and the district attorney on limits. let's limits two daughters. >> yeah. i look i think this is not a violation of the gag order. it's donald trump complaining about the judge. and i think we're going to continue to hear that. i'm not quite sure when he did this because he was in court and i and i don't know when he had

the opportunity to maybe somebody did it on his bank. >> that posing, he pushes he did not delete somebody did somebody does it on his behalf. but just to get back to what's going on in court for a minute keith davidson, i think has been a very good witness for the prosecution so far. >> and he he were counted when the money didn't come on time he recounted how michael cohen told him my guy was in several different states and it was on the campaign trail and that he couldn't make decisions in his absence. and that's another that's another way of saying that donald trump was very involved in the hush money payments. and i think that davidson has made that point, that it was always trump and that michael cohen was subservient i mean, what davidson at this point, we're talking october 17, 2016. he

has so frustrated that michael cohen has not said payment yet and he did detailing every excuse in the book that michael cohen is giving the secret service has so many firewalls up, can't get any, just came to the conclusion he wasn't gonna get paid. and so he surely sent at the end of that day without payment, wolfe to stormy daniels a miss if to michael cohen that says my client has said this is now null and void, the shoes out of this agreement no longer are you having rights to her story because she hasn't received payment and by the way, i don't represent her anymore. so don't call me that's the level of frustration he had gotten that with cohen refusing to pay and he said at one point, cohen said, forget it. i'll just pay it myself and we know what happened. >> and then we also saw cones frustration and cones feeling that everything was urgent when he was talking to the banker because he was in this situation where he needed to come up with this money. he couldn't get donald trump to deal with it or do it. so he

had to do it himself. and he was panicking and this was all kind of explained, worried his wife would find out about personal money. so he didn't just write a check because she handled the finances. so he took out this home equity loan, which she would not have known about, but again, the banker said everything was urgent. yeah. with michael cohen and now we know why. >> of course, a davidson said his perception was this is what he testified to right before break that michael cohen was trying to kick the can down the road until after the election which ties directly back to the fact that david's and davidson's testimony, he believed this payment situation was directly related to donald trump as a candidate for president, and that this would be bad for the campaign quickly led, you think when michael cohen actually comes into the courtroom and testifies, he'll

backup all these allegations that we've been hearing about. >> the prosecutors certainly hope so. >> again, you never know what a witness is going to say, and you never know about the gray areas in which their recollection is slightly different than what other witnesses said. now, i have a hard time believing that prosecutors would have put up these various witnesses if in fact their testimony was actually going to conflict with each other, they didn't maybe coach what they were going to say, but certainly have a census what they're going to proceed with. so i think it will support they will support each other. >> and then the real fight will be on cross-examination when the defense gets to attack michael cohen. that's going to be a lively moment in deed. everybody believed standing by for that everyone's stick around, stay with cnn are special live coverage. we'll continue right after another quick break chasing life. >> dr. sanjay gupta, listen wherever you get your podcasts from friends coming over to mom's coming over so many ways

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of do you think he's guilty? the lead with jake tapper next on cnn welcome back to our special live coverage of donald trump's hush money trial. >> trump is the first us president to be charged in a criminal case. >> we are now nearing the end of yet another day of testimony in this unprecedented trial. >> and for understand the context here, we're joined by presidential historian douglas brinkley, also a professor of history at rice university. so doug, it's great to see you here we are another de of testimony in this it's trial. having sat in that room, one of the things that stands out to me the most is just how intimate and small it is. and also how normal it is. in a sense, right? this is the courtroom, this is how things happen. of course, the defendant it's an extraordinary situation, historical historic. this is trump ball leaving the courtroom today at the end of the testimony as you watch this all unfold, dug, a former president of the united states

coming in and add back courtroom in and out for a break in and out for lunch out here at the end of the day, just like any other defendant and all of those ways what stands out to you owe the big thing is they former president united states donald trump is being charged by a for contempt you know, he's been being fine for breaking the gag orders. he's done, kept posting on social media on his campaign site and $9,000 means nothing to trump, but the judges now threatening incarceration. it seemed to be a very tough line or that the judge today is undertaken that that stood out a lot also, history, we'll be looking at this kind of split screen of columbia university. and then another part of new york, this trial, and it seeming to feel like an unraveling of america. and third, takeaway, aaron was not talked about a lot of cnn, but ken paxton being there on the front row with eric trump, that

is the texas attorney general who is constantly he's suing the biden administration is being charged for fraud and security improprieties is always in the eye of the law and warring with the fbi. and is the single biggest voice that champions the abolishing of roe v. wade. he is the number one anti women's rights activist and they're trump has hymns as a kind of surrogate with his son on the front row interested at that happened today, right? i mean, and it was also the first day that one of trump's family members had been in the court when eric trump came in and donald trump did take a moment to speak to him just when you take a step back and talk about the unraveling of america died. but how do these visuals play for you in that sense, there is a there is an insecurity and all of it for anyone watching something like this, watching a former president as a criminal defendant in a trial and 15th

floor of a manhattan courthouse well, with all of our modernity and technological advances that we're still really beholden to people with sketchbooks and the courts. >> those drawings will live on a course forever. i see donald trump is being very frightened, not frightened that he's going to go to jail between now and the election. but i do believe that if he does really squawk one more time, he's allowed to go after the judge, but he cannot go after cohen. stormy daniels that trump's really playing with buyers. so i think today he's been pacified a little. he's doing his sort of routine of half-asleep, half awake. this is a waste of time, but one feels is it anger? oh, and donald trump and not angry at himself, but angry at what he feels is a witch hunt. and i just can't imagine melania trump of dealing with mcdougal and daniel's. how many others

are out there what is my husband is a serial philanderer and i don't know how that works in a domestic environment at mar-a-lago. so trump will seek revenge if he if he can escape the the law of between now and november and is elected precedent good all right. >> well, douglas brinkley, thank you very much. good to talk to you again. >> as he said of his presidential historian, author and professor at rice university our special coverage continues right after this brief break, were in downtown manhattan outside that court, where another day of testimony has just concluded, stay with us the whole myth we re-imagined feed, you didn't know whether you were next they were both tied up? yeah. yeah.

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freelancers, fiber this is cnn. the world's news welcome back to our special coverage of donald trump's hush money trial. a former attorney for playmate, karen mcdougal and adult-film star stormy daniels has been on the stand for much of the afternoon. he detailed a very contentious relationship with ex-trump lawyer michael cohen as the two men tried to work out a deal to sell oh, and silence mcdougal and daniel stories at one point, davidson admitting under oath to calling cohen a quote, jerk. meanwhile, trump or rather someone working on his behalf, just posted on truth social blasting the gag order and the judge in the trial this after trump was fined some $9,000, this morning for violating the order multiple times to our viewers. thanks very much for joining us. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. i'll be back in two hours, 6:00 p.m. eastern in the situation room. the lead with jake tapper starts right