for republicans and for arizona, i think the trump team breathes a sigh of relief tonight. actually, because this was catalyzing and going to catalyze so much mobilization of new voters in arizona it probably still well because abortion will probably still be i'll let amendment in arizona, but it won't probably have the thrust of energy that it would have had if there had been a near-total ban on abortion, except for the life of the mother. come november, what's also created a rift among republicans of all-region supported this, or do we want it to stay in? >> yeah. i just think i know that they did this act, but for the next 90 days women's still won't have access to reproductive justice, but the important thing is that they're doing it right now for politics because they don't want to lose the election. what happens after the election? that's what voters need to pay attention to and keep that energy around for november we'll see what it looks like. of course, administration, taking full advantage of it. actually, i'll send over great to have you both here on set tonight. thank

you all so much for joining us tonight. we'll see you back here tomorrow. seeee in a news night with abby phillip starts right now protests, sweeping campuses across the country, but president biden between a rock and a hard place. that's tonight on good evening i'm abby phillip in new york tonight, the presidential vacuum, donald trump, wants to fill and to exploit the radical extremists and far-left agitators or terrorizing college campuses as you possibly noticed, and biden's nowhere to be found. >> he hasn't said anything but there is political base now, trump's characterization of what's happening across universities from

coast-to-coast is not the whole truth, but look for words from president biden on what's happening on these pro-palestinian and cabinets on defending the right of these protesters to exercise free speech on the need to protect jewish students or police arresting some students. >> and you won't find much. but what is unquestionably and politically painfully clear for the biden campaign is that the problem shows no signs of going away tonight, cnn has obtained new been worn camera footage showing the minute by minute view. when officers entered columbia university last night and we're also watching dartmouth college in new hampshire where officers appear to be arresting protesters on, that campus so where does this all go next joining me now to talk about this as duke professor frank bruni, he is a new york times op-ed columnist and the author of the age of grievance franc, great to have you here very timely, subject for your book what i want to

start with, the big picture here, because we've been seeing these images from the schools. but what's beneath them is what i see as the strain of absolutism what do you see and where do you think that that comes from? >> no, i think you're absolutely right. some of what we're seeing is specific to the war in gaza, right? some of it is particular to the environment of a college campus. but i think a lot of this is about a larger culture and context and a way in which every disagreement in american life right now gets raised to or near the boy feeling point and that happens because the opposite sides d again, nobody really wants to understand what the other side's coming from we confuse conviction and confrontation. and then as you saw in what donald trump was saying, just then, you have various political actors come in to score political points. right? and they have no interest in common this situation. they just want to exploit an inflame it right now, you have the right saying, this shows an entire generation brainwashed by woken. and you have the left saying that this shows the dawn of an oppressive

police state. it shows neither of those things. but when you shout those complaints in the public square, you guarantee this is going to go on and get worse i'm? >> so fascinated by the pro-palestinian movement in this country. >> i mean, of course what's happening in gaza is important and it's important to point out when you have 34,000 dad, many of them children, that's notable, but one of the things about the protesters is that they don't want to talk about the complexity of the long-running issues in this conflict. and you talk about how you tell your students. it's complicated right now, there's an allergy to complexity. >> there's an allergy to complexity. there's an allergy to nuance. it is really complicated. this is a difficult situation. we cannot condone or be silent about anti-semitism, right? that's non negotiable. we also do protect the right to free speech and when protests are peaceful that's really important. there's a grand tradition of that, and that's an important american value. figuring out how to protect jewish students and faculty is how to fight antisemitism. but

at the same time, how to protect free speech that is not easy. so we never say it's complicated. we never acknowledged it's difficult what we're trying to do right here, right now is difficult i also think it's important to sail though this is spreading and we just saw dartmouth and where i live at unc, there's a big problem right now. we haven't seen this a duke. we aren't seeing them this on every campus. this is not an entire generation. this is not every college campus. this is not america going, going crazy or whatever this is a particular situation, isn't it a little over-index because maybe it's new york city. you can it's easy to see what's happening. there. are we overfocus on what's happening on these college? campuses and it's not distorting our understanding of how widespread these sentiments are. >> a little bit, yeah, i think we're extrapolating from them and we're making comments about the entire country that is not entirely true while they reflect a wider culture they don't reflect the normal behavior of most americans every day we do not see most

people haveing this way. and in fact, if you look at what people are paying attention to on social media, a lot of people aren't nearly as dialed into this as donald trump would have you believe, or is mike johnson would have you believe when he came to new york and said maybe we should call out the national guard that was not helpful. that's pouring gas on the situation, not trying to settle us speaking of congress today, lawmaker curves pass this bipartisan bill that defined antisemitism to include targeting the state of israel. it's a fairly broad definition that some even some democrats pushed back on saying that it really chilled speech against the government of israel is that kind of stuff even helpful in this environment is a performative, not something that brought isn't helpful. you use the right word. i don't know how we're supposed to interpret that and i don't know who's going to determine what is simply opposition to israel and what's anti-semitism that's a really hazy judgment to make. it is performative. politicians are looking to a piece certain constituencies they do that all

the time, but at certain junctures, that's very dangerous are less issue of zionism anti-israel, et cetera. zionism has been around for a long time, i've noticed, especially looking at the posters zionism has become a descriptor for people as opposed to an ideology that seems to signal how this has become personal for these protesters in a way that seems different. it's personal and the whole thing is being waged in caricature, right what you were just talking about is the death of nuance the death of complexity and i don't think we can afford that in this particular situation. >> we can afford it and a lot of situations and it's one of the things that is really thrusting this country into a kind of dysfunction when it comes to civic discourse, when it comes to political debate, that i think is really dangerous as biden need to say something i think you need to say a little bit more than he has said, but i think one of the reasons he's not saying some of it's just political caution. >> but one of the reasons he isn't saying something is because of something you said earlier, it's complicated. i

think he's having a hard time figuring out how to weigh in in a manner that is constructive, especially given the pressures that he's facing from his own base some of whom don't even want to talk to him about this. very briefly. thank you very much for joining us tonight and also tonight from the trail to trail donald trump playing some of his greatest hits during his recess de, in michigan and wisconsin cnn's daniel dale will join me now to fact-check daniel well, there's a lot. >> he said democrats rigueur, the 2020 election, did not happen. he said he won the 2020 election. absolute lie. he lost. he said today's wisconsin rally was the first time he's publicly said he doesn't think the country will survive if he doesn't win in 2024, he's actually said that over and over again. he said he's been indicted more than gains thanks to her al capone, who he said only got indicted once. in fact, capone was indicted at least six times more than trump. he said all of his criminal and civil cases have come out of the biden white house. zero evidence for that. he said nancy pelosi rejected his proposal for 10,000 troops on january 6. complete fiction

pelosi never gods such a proposal wouldn't have had the power to reject it if she did he said the january 6 committee destroyed all of the evidence. no he said he defeated isis and one month, in fact, isis is so-called caliphate was declared fully liberated two years into his presidency, he said, nobody released for an immigration hearing. abby actually comes back to court. in fact, federal stats show a large majority do actually return. he said the economy is right now now in stagflation, it's simply is not. he said he left office with the price of gas at two and under in fact, the national average was $2.39. sense. he said cumulative inflation under president biden has been 30%. then said, it's actually 50%. in fact, it's about 19%. he said no other president has taken intense sense from tariffs on china actually, the us has had tariffs on china since the 1700s. he said the bipartisan infrastructure law signed by biden was quote, fake, extremely real. it's funded tens of thousands of infrastructure projects. he said he rebuilt the whole military defense experts have told me he did not. he said the

biden administration wants all electric army tanks. the military is moving toward using other electric vehicles, but not tanks. he repeated his abject nonsense that there are many cases where democrats will allow executing babies after birth. that is infanticide murder illegal in every state, including those run by democrats. he said, every legal scholar wanted roe v. wade overturned and abortion returned to the states, not even close to true as multiple legal scholars have personally told me, he repeated his usual stick about media outlets turning off their cameras as he criticized the media. again, pure fiction. he repeated his false claim that the biden administration is trying to take away people's gas stoves is not happening. he claimed there's a biden war on american energy. in fact, us oil production is at the highest level abbey of any country in including the us in world history. he said he built 571 miles of border wall, official federal statue was 458. he said he ended russia's nord stream two pipeline. no, russia resume that after his 2019 sanctions, he spoke of nato members having failed to pay bills wrong name, those

defense spending guidelines do not create bills at all. he said that before him, the us was paying 90 to 100% of nato. in fact, a us defense spending was 71% of nato is total. he said he didn't think that before last month or ever been a single month were zero manufacturing jobs were gained. in fact, manufacturing jobs were lost in numerous months of his own presidency, even pre-covid, and actually lost for his entire presidency beginning to end. he said that under the gag order on him in manhattan the criminal case, he shouldn't even be talking to a rally crowd. in reality, that narrow gag order does nothing to prevent him from doing political rallies. he claimed detroit had more ballots cast in 2020 than it has voters. totally wrong. again, he told the story about african and asian countries empty seeing their prison. so prisoners can migrate to the us even his own campaign cannot substantiate that to me. and abbey, he said he's winning and every single national poll, he is not he, let's have these memorized by loud. danielle thank you. thank you all right now, here is a

provocative question. >> does donald trump actually want to go to jail because he is once again flirting with that line. plus one of my guests set as that if trump wins this election, he'll likely leave the country for good. >> we'll discuss and a bizarre demand by rfk jr. here about the pledge that he wants president biden decide this is is this how people dress in norway? >> no one no is fine this is a travel show visit my fans around the world by that kind of propaganda ango flows through the blood of the argentine tango. it's pronounced tonga, last tango and parents more accurately, last tang going jati. >> conan o'brien must go now streaming exclusively on macs finish ultimate engineered for the toughest dry, burnt on

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progress on fred pleitgen into wrong. and this is cnn there's no grime. i have a crooked judge is a totally conflicted judge. so i got indicted four times and-a-half civil trials to all coming out of the white house, everything like a third

world country. and the good news is people get it. most importantly, people get it. and my poll numbers are higher than they've ever been well, that was donald trump railing tonight against his own legal problems and taking aim at the judge and his current hush money trial. >> the very same judge who has threatened trump with jail if he continues to violate his gag order the very same judge that he'll see in just a few hours, who hear arguments about these four potential new violations by trump and what are they going to look at all the lives that gone? the last draw that court lines and the last trial so he got caught lying pure lime. that's yuri was pick so fast, 95% democrats the areas mostly all democrat. you think of it as just a purely democrat area it's a very unfair situation. that i can tell you. >> my girl cohen is a convicted liar and he's got no

credibility whatsoever. he was a lawyer and you rely on your lawyers david's been very nice and nice guy. that david he's referring to is david pecker who was on the witness stand last week. now it's worth noting the trump made all of those comments before yesterday's punishment joining me now is cnn political commentator jamal simmons, former new york lieutenant governor betsy mccoy, cnn political commentator, see cup, and a former new york state assistant attorney general, christina so chris do these new comments reached the bar for judge merchan to say something to do, something based on what judge merchan are already decided on the last gag order hearing, i think they do, but i think unlike in this case, a typical defendant who doesn't want to be held in contempt, a typical defendant doesn't want to go to jail while he's in his trial. and i would defer to our political experts, but i think there's a part of donald trump that his die-hard supporters, if he is incarcerated, it's probably red meat and he probably likes it, but a typical defendant would not

want to be held in contempt. >> say the least but because this is not a typical we'll defend that he knows he's probably not going to jail. he's probably not going to jail when he talks about there's two tiered legal system. he is right. he's just got it the other way around. he is doing stuff that anyone else would be in jail for the rest of their lives? for any really still hasn't been held all that accountable. but politically, look, half the country has decided he is guilty of all of it. the other half has decided he is innocent of all of it. it's ranked and anyone that's left is not paying attention. so he's speaking to the jury is either on the jury or not, or juror caring so he's speaking to the audience that matters to him. the maga crowd, the fox crowd. i tuned into fox the other day just for s is in jesus and they were just parenting everything. he says this is reg, this is a

witch hunt. this judges crooked. it's like they want a gag order. >> so he's he's got his audience completely with him on all this stuff. >> he's saying, well, i think the aclu is also with him on something very important and that is so they gag order against a defendant violates our constitution. the bill of rights. you sound just like fox know constitutional history. >> and i'm speaking the truth. the fact is that the bill of rights was written to protect the little guide the defendant, the accused, against an all-powerful government permit so to gag a defendant and not the prosecution's witnesses puts the whole bill of rights. >> are you calling donald trump the little guy? >> yes, i am. oh, yes, i am. because he is the accused and the system of justice should work for any accused i'm telling you that all the democrats here if you took donald trump's name off this gag order and put somebody else's name on it. they'd be

outraged that the defendant is gagged from defending himself when the prosecution's witnesses are going on television and on social media and making their case dag from attacking judges and clerks and witnesses, which any other person would be to know that is not true. i just explained to you that the aclu even says, against defendants in cases like that or a violation of the bill of rights. it doesn't matter whether the defendant is donald trump or joe smoke. >> so if a regular joe schmo is attacking witnesses in a criminal case against him, judges and their family. what is the judge going to do? joe schmo is gonna get in trouble that way. >> i'm gonna. go out on a limb we yes joe schmo is gonna get in trouble for doing that. >> you can attack witnesses you can't attack jurors are the most important thing right? >> so there's a jury pool. >> there was a jury pool out there, so that was the original concern with the gag order when

the jury has been selected. now there's actually obviously a trial, so gag orders are designed to protect jurors and other witnesses. >> we already saw at georgia tech themselves out of the jury pool because they were concerned about their own health. after people began to figure out that they were on this jury. listen down trump is not a typical defendant. we can't treat him typically either. i think what he knows is that he is not going to go to jail. and so you've got to find some way to try to corral him and keep everyone else safe. and i will tell you it is a troubling i've heard stories when people particularly in georgia about prosecutors being followed, about witnesses to the case getting unsolicited emails and voice messages, this is a very tinderbox moment in the country, and we've got to do whatever we can to keep. >> here's here's another way of looking at this donald trump is trying to make a mockery of the legal system. the court system he is succeeded. yeah,

because he is violating the gag order every day. and there is actually nothing that will be done about it. >> i do wonder what is the point of taking time from this trial to deal with these issues when the consequence is irrelevant to him. i think the value is those are good points. i think the value because it is the a former president united states and unprecedented trial, i think in our country in new york, every other state you still have to follow the form. and i in the end, if he's not going to go to jail, there is an outside chance. if if he is going to be incarcerated, the judge has the option to wait till the end of the trial and punish him, then not during the trial, but i think to your question, i b there's value in the sense that there's value to the still believing in the process. and even though he's not going to be incarcerated like i would or you would it's still worth having the hearings and getting everything on the record let me just say this let me just say this because we are talking about the law, but

let's also talk a little bit about the politics here. and i just think we started off here saying whether or not this is going to be helpful to his election prospects. there's just no way being incarcerated great at being in jail is helpful to someone running for president united states. and if that's true, that means the country has taken a really far turn than the one that we're often like the threat of jail as something to rally his base, the emerson poll that came out tuesday had trump ahead and all seven swing states. now that's just one pole, but it's amazing that he is stuck in a courtroom. four out of five weekdays. yeah only campaign on wednesday and he keeps going up in the polls. i did want to take issue with just one thing, my friend jamal harris said, he's said, well, there's no ordinary defendant. i do believe in our system of justice, every defendant is accorded the same rights. you don't make exceptions because somebody is a politician. i think there were not getting the same penalties because anybody else would have already caught a break on one of these charges, right? >> they would have already been

either put in jail or add some other sanction putting disagree on that because i think you'll find on appeal that those gag orders were held in contempt. trump has been held in contempt of this court. any other defendant there would be consequences for that the judge is aware is cognizant that he's dealing with the former president jail is a jail right now. it's apparently not on the table no. >> and i think that's because of who he is and the politics and the judge doesn't want to wait into the politics of someone running for president and the appearances of that. and you knows, trump will use that. but this is all still important. what if we journalists said what's the point of covering him? honestly, he doesn't care and he lives. it's still important that we do that. what's the point of holding them accountable and putting them through the legal process, even if he doesn't care about it and he makes a mockery of it. it's still important. we can't go to where he wants to take it. we have to stay up here and hope that at the end of the day that checks in the balance it says work there weren't enough checks and balances because as you may

recall, letitia james and 11 bragg both campaign for their jobs on a promise to get trump they didn't even have a crime yet, but they were already pledging to get trump. >> that's not american. >> everyone standby for me. we've got more coming up. i'll speak with the person who says that. if trump wins the election, he'll probably leave the united states for good he's law says that he's not alone. plus we're also following the breaking news on college campuses where police and protesters are clashing across the country, stay with us every piece of evidence tells a story how would really happy. jesse. oh, monitor. sunday's at nine on cnn this tiny home trend not for me. >> now, this is more like same goes for my foot worth why one hands-free with wide fit sketch

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muntean at reagan national airport. >> this is cnn i know

everyone's always ideally threatening this, but i'm 100% moving to canada if any republican gets i'm going to move to canada with my entire family. i've made the coming to your country true? if you'll let me in or canada, it wouldn't be a vacation. >> i would i'd be an expatriate come in jobs i would i would definitely move my black asked to south africa my actual change because i'll need to learn to speak spanish because i will move to spain or somewhere. >> the reason i bought my house and when i bought that house on facetime, about three days before the 2020 election, because i was really the trump was going to win again though this is not the plot of handmade stale. they all said that they would leave the country if trump won. but he did and they are still here. my next guess though, is echoing that same sentiment, but this time for 2024, david a. andelman is considering making

the choice to make france the country that he frequents his permanent residents. david is here with us. hi so tell us about it why why this time and not maybe the last time. >> well, i've been going over there to france living there for 44 years right now, amelie at so it's time for me to really look at what america rickea ears and my concern is that i'm a deep believer in america, md believer in democracy. but my concern is that the american democracy that i've grown to love over so many years may not have long, mineral, longer be the core of the american system going forward after november so i have to look at what is my alternative may alternative for me is france and we begin writing this column four cnn this morning the number of people i found two, we're really echoing the same sentiment, not only for friends but all over the world to mexico, to italy, to greece, to spain, to portugal. an amazing

number of people. and even since the column ran this morning, drawing fro estate broker, we know very well in france who specializes in moving americans to france she got 45 requests for a point since you're column, what else? yes. my column this morning, justice morning when it went up on cnn about 5:00 a.m. eastern time since then, she got 45 requests for four conversations with people want to move, make sure you get a commission we talked about first thing. i can think of many democrats who are going to regard donald trump's election is good news and i'll tell you why democrats and big blue cities like denver, chicago, and new york course so distressed with the impact of the migrant crisis on resources isn't there cities you hear about it every day from them, especially in chicago, very outspoken against the open southern border and donald trump is promised to close it

on day one. so not all the democrats will be saying bye-bye. no, i agree with you, francis food can't be beat. >> no but there's no question about that. we can agree he's done that. but but you know, there's a tremendous migrant problem in france, in europe in general. they have found a way of solving it that biden it seems to me, is really anxious to solve and not simply closing the borders and throw everybody out. that is not a solution that works for sure. >> they found a way to solve it. i mean, i spent a lot fair amount of time in france. and if let's talk about the migrants who are in the band lu, the suburban parts of paris, where they've and their kind of house together in these tall high-rises like 1968, chicago, as shown and so i'm not sure they feel like the problem has been solved. you also seen right-wing politicians or lupins, part of the world come up and they coming up is not great, but that's not always greener and i'll tell you as an african-american, he's traveled the world. i don't know that. i have the privilege of saying i get to go anywhere else because if you look at how

people treat some of the migrants in their countries, particularly darker skin migrants who show up in those countries, they're not always so welcoming. i mean, italy hasn't been, i love italy, but i think they're nice to me because i'm an american, not because i'm black. even places like the dominican republic were haitians right now, i can't get into the dr. and so i think we've seen around the world, it's not quite the same but david, whatever happened to find it fighting for your country. >> well, i will fight for my country not talking about necessarily physically. and 80 years old, nobody wants me to put it that point is left say. >> no. but you have to understand that. i feel as deeply about about america as french people do about france and so on. america, ic is not the america that i really want to have going forward as my hometown is my home country, but my son for instance he married a french lady. okay he just got his ten year court decision. what car to raise? you donalds is resonance card.

today, actually, coincidentally, he is committed to france right now, but equal his back, his film director, he goes back to hollywood a lot to work but that's where he has made his home and he really believes deeply in that and i leave deeply in an america that i would love to see come back now, i i mean, we make fun of the hollywood types because it's easy to but there is something to be said. >> i don't think it's trump but this country feels on a precipice, it feels on edge. and i see that as someone in the news. so i see it more i think than the average person. and that's why i feel it more since my therapist but also, i mean as a mom mass shootings feel inescapable, end inevitable. and i know statistically they're not, however, they are on the rise. and it feels scary. that's one issue among many issues that

feel at a fever pitch. i spent a month since last summer in belgium with my family. we had an opportunity to go for a month and when i say the difference in just taking the temperature down no one there cared about politics, not our politics or even their politics, all that much they had lives. they weren't worried about their safety. they weren't worried about their kids, so they sent to run in the down square without adult supervision. there is something that feels easier. in other places. >> i do save and friends. i do wonder about the catastrophizing. >> yeah. on the left and the right? yep that on the right, there's a sense that the country is on the precipice. yes. that biden being reelected is going to be the worst thing in the world the only option on the right is to physically fight that they're warning of world war three. okay. so on the left, i mean, there's this different version of that. i mean, isn't the answer somewhere in the middle to stay and to participate in the political process and absolutely because the question

is, let's say, all of us have the opportunity to leave. what about everybody else? >> all right? and so we all have families, we have friends, or generations of people. >> it is a little bourgeois idea for me, is the idea for me is we all have to invest in mechanics must be a better place and stick with it like stay and fight that's what we're doing but the brand drink much like the brain drain is one an issue that really does come up a lot when i talk to people, they worry about what is going to happen if trump comes in the country, does tread if you will democratic fabric of the country's read. are we going to lose really a vast majority of our country that really we should be keeping much as russia has been doing lately the brain, brain from russia has been dramatically, yeah, i think that's, that would be obviously the consequences of all of this. >> david adelman. thank you very much for joining us on that and to everyone else standby for us up next. why is president biden on the sidelines when it comes to these nationwide protests? is that hurting him politically?

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fitness, energy we are in a limestone cave letting extreme residue build-up to put finished jet dry to the test dishwashers are designed to use jet dry to defend against top residues. >> for are practically spotlit, shy sunday on the whole story. >> in one of the world's most diverse ecosystem i've been watson confronts the stark reality of climate change to fight for us. >> the whole story with anderson cooper, sunday at eight on cnn more on our breaking news, we're getting word that the protests on the campus of ucla has been declared an unlawful assembly, which is essentially the final warning before police move in and take control. the process are hitting a boiling point, not just there, but across the country as well. and president biden has been essentially radio silent on these tensions. democratic state, new york state representatives, or on mamdani joins me and the panel

is back here with us. so state representative, thank you for being here why have these protests gotten to this point? of not just tensions with a universities, but the accusations of antisemitism, the violence in some cases, how have we gotten to this point? >> i think we've gotten to this point because for months, students have been very consistent in their call, which is a call for the end of this war. they are concerned by the fact that more than 30,000 palestinians have been killed killed, and they've seen their universities as part of this war effort, given the investments that many of these universities have. and yet for many months there call has been denied. it has not been heard, it has been ignored, and we've gotten to this point here. >> do you think at this point just looking at these pictures here for ucla, i mean, last knight's total chaos, especially on the west coast and we lost sight of the cause here that you were just talking about, which is what is happening in gaza i think these students have actually forced

many of us to reckon with what's happening there. because for too many americans, this has been something that is actually getting out of view. an example is that when students renamed the hall and columbia from hamilton hall to hint the hall, they were honoring a six-year-old palestinian girl who was killed in a car are watching as her parents had been killed by the israeli military prior. and for so many americans, that was a name that they hadn't heard until these students made it one i think this is a forgive me for saying probe pastoralists explanation for what the students are doing. the uber is involved in thinking that as columbia goes, so we'll go rafah, that the middle east is watching what happens on these campuses it's just simply not true in my view, these college students and perhaps some outsiders, but mostly these college students have violated what a university stands for research learning civil discourse it's one thing to express your concern about

what's happening in gaza. it's another thing to disrespect or shutout the microbiologist who can't get to his lab, who's working on cancer cures or the law student who can't get to the library to finishes exams. this is a university and people four other people at these universities have rights, whether they're concerned about gaza or not. i think these students who refused to leave the big grassy area of days before they seize to hamilton hall should have been expelled because they showed so little respect for the rest of you university. >> but i've got the issue for me is that these students in their actions, they were calling upon a tradition that's existed at columbia for decades in 1968, i set up these similar kinds of encampments to ensure that their call for an end to the war was being heard. so this is not a new tradition, rather it's calling upon one of the older and greatest traditions and student

discourse across this. i just answered that and say in 1968, when those students went into hamilton hall that was before the era of computers they emptied the files and burned the papers. >> some of my colleagues at columbia lost ten or 15 years of research when those students did that, nobody is talking about the impact of that kind of damage to the rest of the university. but i was in the history department in the 19 and there were professors there who had to start over on a book they had spent years writing. >> jamal, i want to bring you in on 1968, guys, i noted hunter son of all people, he tweeted that in 1968 divisions in the democratic party open the door for richard nixon to be elected. and he says, today, divisions in the democratic party over a war, will open the door to donald trump being elected truth to that is something to be concerned about for sure for the democrats to pay attention to people who were around in 1968 on the left

will tell you the countries have very different place. >> these are very different kinds of protests. they're not as massive as they were in 1968. the country is much more used to seeing this kind of protest and they weren't 1960 when back then this was something that was really sort the first time these kinds of big protests had occurred. i talked to my dad who was the anti-war protests or during the vietnam war one thing that he said that he would counsel the students who are in the middle of this to do is they had to police that some of the extreme elements that showed up at those anti-war protests and his case hey, is there were socialist workers party type folks who would show up and try to distribute things. they had to confront those people and move them out of the way because they knew they were cabinet for the media. if you want your message to get out, if you don't want to get tied up into some of the more extreme elements like we're hearing about right here. but i do not think are indicative of the entire protests you've got to the protestors themselves has to police that, which will help keep the law enforcement from having to come in and deal with us. there any validity to that representative? you know,

i think that it is critical that there be a sense of agreements as to what you are entering the space two and what we saw at columbia was they were very firm about the fact that if you enter this space, you enter a space with no hate that there is no tolerance for acts of anti-semitism or things of that kind. what concerns me is that the real danger that occurred in that situation was when the police came in, many of them guns drawn, introducing a risk previously had not existed on that campus so in a lot of ways, this is a complicated issue and others, it's very uncomplicated you have on one side people who deeply want to peacefully protest for innocent victims that is a tradition. it's a grand tradition and it's something that should happen on college campuses. and in other places of electoral thought there's nothing wrong with that inherently. >> on the other side, you have people wearing hamas head bands hanging intifada flags calling for death to zionists.

>> and prohibiting jewish people from getting an education. those two things cannot co-exist. you can't have be anti-war and anti-semitic. you can't be peaceful and violent and call for violence you can't have free speech and hate speech. those things are separate. and i wonder where the adults are. parents administrators, faculty members to tell these kids your purpose is good. your cause is right. what you're doing is wrong and awful. and now you're shifting attention to the protection of jewish students. away from the protection of innocent palestinians in moments like this, jamal typically, the country looks to the president of the united states to set the tone to help us understand what's going on typically that doesn't seem to be on the horizon right now but should it be? well, there is talk with the president during the speech next week on antisemitism and making sure that still i'm

going to be addressed the president does need to speak up into this. we also know the president is going to be at morehouse college for commencement on may 19th, which is where i'm going to school, which could also be very controversial bush back from which could be a controversial thing. maybe by then we'll have a peace agreement in place which will make that a very different engagement. but he will have some opportunities to address young people. i think we need him to do that and to address the rest of us about what's going on. but i think we also se we have to be able to have a free-speech where we allow people to say things even if they're uncomfortable and even if they make us feel uncomfortable. and even if they're unpopular, what does that make us feel unsafe? >> well the question knocking the question is, are they doing something that makes you feel unsafe because it's not what's an i may not agree with all the things that the protesters are saying, but it's not it's not their job to not make you feel uncomfortable and then but please, i'm warheads on foreheads when it comes to free speech, i'm a journalist, but there is speech that makes you feel unsafe and when claudine gay can't say, of course it's a violation of campus bullying

and harassment to go for the genocide of the jews. that sounds to most people like crazy talk, right? and it isn't distraction from the message to people who are going can't bother looking up online. i'm with an organization that's raised millions of dollars for the children in gaza. this has nothing to do with those different factions or politics. this is common sense. >> and if we're ignoring how unsafe jewish students feel, we are doing a huge disservice and adding to an already dangerous rise in anti-semitism. >> let me just give if i were, if i were to say if a protests over to stand up and say we've got to eradicate zionism i mean, it's, i mean, it's agree with that. >> but eradicating zionism is maybe protected speech. that is to say, we have to eradicate zionists you have to kill them. and that feels like crossing a line to of course, it's crossing a line that's very different than going i agree.

>> i do wonder is that a line that's cross when when their speech killed design as or even to say, zionists are not allowed in here in wherever you are. i mean, is that crossing a line? i think language like kill the zionist is crossing a line. >> i don't think that there is any way for anti-semitism in our society or in our protests. and what concerns me is that that same belief in the fact that we shouldn't have that kind of hate present oftentimes is not extended towards anti-palestinian hatred. we're thinking about ucla, where just for last few days, a number of pro israel protesters have shown up to those encampments. with baseball bats threatening at genocide and ethnic cleansing on those students. >> we got to go, guys, but thank you very much, everyone for a great discussion. a new challenge from the independent presidential candidate, rfk jr. to president biden face off in a poll again that's donald trump. loser drops out of the race. does that makes sense to you? well, harry enten will join me to explain what's going on this is an.

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station.com slash, try and get two months free manu raju on capitol hill in this is cnn closed captioning is brought to you by skechers, hands-free slip ends step in the future like i did when new hands-free skechers slip is the secret is slip ends have an invisible filth in shoe horn, so your foot's slides into place to try skechers, slip in rfk jr. apparently thinks that president biden is the spoiler in this election, not him. >> the independent is demanding the biden signed of pledge that by mid-october, the weaker of the two and the poles will drop out while the other one faces trump. but there are some problems with this logic and cnn's senior data reporter, harry enten is here at the

magic wall now to tell us exactly what that is what the heck is he talking? but what is he talking? what is he talking about? >> a look, here's the choice for president right now. >> we're looking at an aggregate of polling. we see a close race between donald trump are 41%. joel so biden at 40%, well within any margin of error, right? where is rfk jr. he's at 10% of the vote. him calling on joe biden to potentially drop out of the race reminds me of when ted cruz named carly fiorina as his vp nominee back in 2016 when he was well on his way to losing the republican nomination, not to mention that this is a national snapshot, not even state-level polls. he's not even on the ballot and a lot of states, that's exactly right. >> he's not even on the ballot. a lot of states and i will tell you in the states that he's on the ballot. it's not like he's polling really far north of this 10% and more than that, why would joe biden? make a deal with rok junior. when you look at who are akkad juniors supporters say, are

their second choice, right? who is rfk jr. helping by staying in the race? he is he is in fact helping joe biden because arcade junior voters say that their second choice is donald trump is very clear margin here, 40 he seven to 29% or recent quinnipiac university poll. and this matches a lot of the polling that we've seen where our k junior supporters preferred donald trump to joe biden tells you everything you need to know, including why donald trump is the wild, who wants rfk to drop out of the race. >> that's exactly right. and it's not really surprising to me, right? that we see rfk at only 10% of the vote because i want to go back through history, right? and just sort of say third party candidates who got at least 20% of the vote. whenever you put millard fillmore on a slide, you know, you have to go way back in history, back in 18 56, he was part of the no, nothing's or the american party teddy roosevelt progressive boom moles in 1912. he of course actually came in second place. but the truth of the matter is abby, third party cans in this country and may be