about it, i declassified everything. >> trump's own words also at the center of the election subversion case, he's facing in georgia, in my opinion, has never late. so that's the story. house. i look, we need only 11,000 votes. >> that's audio from trump on a phone call january 2, 2021 so pressuring georgia secretary of state to find enough votes needed to overturn his loss. >> when you have a defendant who says what they did, what do you need emails and text messages than anything else four, that's the critical evidence. but like anything else, it can be spun so as you laid out trump himself is giving prosecutors that gift, right? yeah. give me the gift of all this these tapes, but you know, tapes alone don't do it as even many times, michael cohen has said in conversations to us, right? right. and not when it comes to the former present because when you think about this, this is a man and who has made in the past any

number of inflammatory statements >> and there is this argument that because he's made so many of these statements in the past, that perhaps the public has become somewhat numb to it. so these recordings might not end up having the same impact it would with any regular person simply because of the person who's saying it, which is pretty amazing. and i remember when who was at comey he said, lord, i hope they're tapes because trump's always saying there's tapes when there aren't tapes, but it's gonna take them more than tapes, right? which will take more than two, which is seconds are so much tape. >> yeah. wow. all right all right. jason carroll. thank you very much. and thanks very much to all of you for joining us as always, we'll see you back here tomorrow night. same time. ac30, 60 anderson cooper starts right now good evening. >> we are following two big stories tonight. one, the enormous tension right now over what happens next in gaza after de, this all celebrations over hamas saying they accepted a ceasefire deal, then apprehension over israel's war cabinet rejecting it, and the

idf beginning limited strikes on territory east of rafah. whereas really forces have ordered civilians to leave the white house, as you know, has long opposed any major incursion raffa. and today, president biden spoke with israeli prime minister benjamin than yahoo& administration spokesman, saying the president and asked about israeli intentions for the city and plans to keep civilians. they're safe we're going to live updates on the situation throughout the next two hours. verse pedal primetime coverage tonight we begin though with another de, unlike any other and the former presidents, new york hush money trial day 12 started with the judge finding donald trump had contempt. again and telling him directly the next time could mean jail and though he said it, it's the last thing he wants to do. two former in future president or potentially future present, i should say, judge juan merchan added quote at the end of the day, i have a job to do. and part of that job is to protect the dignity of judicial system and compel respect you went on to say your continued violations of this court's lawful order threatened to interfere with the

administration of justice constant attacks which constitute a direct attack on the rule of law. i cannot allow that to continue. the day continued with one former one current trump organization employee detailing how michael cohen's hush money payments stormy daniels, were reimbursed by then president trump it ended with prosecutors saying they have about two weeks left in their case and with the defendant complaining about that, and the gag order, he's now been fine for violating ten times so it's a disgrace, but we just heard two to three weeks. i thought they were finished today. i have to watch every word i can make people yes. big question. a simple question. i'd like to give it, but i can talk about it because this judges give me a gag order and so you'll go to jail if you violate and frankly, you know what our constitution is much more important than jail, studying clubs i'll do that sacrifice any de well, tonight we have new reporting of what might happen if the judge

grants his where she ends. >> john miller starts us off with that. so what are you learning about contingency plans among law enforcement well, anderson, the day started with the judge mentioned this in his written order, mentioning it in his words on ct, the possibility of jail with the authorities kind of scratching their heads and asking each other, is this getting more real? >> you know, it's not like the secret service can pull out the protection of former presidents manual and go to the page that says president in jail that page doesn't exist. so they've got to sketch this out. and what they're talking about is what are the options? so one option is they can ask the judge to remand trump in the event that he is sentenced to custodial sentence to the custody of the united states marshall. they can move that custody down the street to the federal courthouse in those facilities, there the us marchal fill in manhattan is a former secret service agent. so he understands about prisoners, about custody, but also about the needs of the secret service

and protection and former presidents. so that would give them some veneer of the kind of control that they would like to have in a situation like this? but then there's the other possibility which is judge me, sean says he's like any other prisoner. he's going to rikers island who ultimately, i mean, if that was actually if he was ordered by the judge to be jailed, who has the ultimate say on where he goes? >> is it the judge is like the mayor or the governor know that's the judge. i mean this is a judge. my shines courtroom. and this is the very message that judge merchan is trying to reinforce, which is i'm in charge in this courtroom. there's a universe out there where the president of the united states, a former president, may have influenced the secret service is very important but i rule this courtroom and he views trump as someone who is challenging that. so if he sentenced him to sit jail and i spoke to frank dwyer, the spokesman for the new york city department of corrections, and said trump on

rikers island, how does that work? and he said, and i quote the department will find appropriate housing unclothed that's a difficult scenario because corrections officers in a place that is often and overcrowded, often understaffed, they're unarmed, which is how it works inside a jail. the secret service would probably require a separate empty building facility, a wing of its own, where they could be armed, have a rescue plan and escape plan, be able to screen food. but it would also mean and donald trump world the rules of the jail. no telephone, no tweets, no truth, social. so this really is uncharted territory we'll see if it ever gets there. john mellor. thank you. joining us now is new york defense attorney arthur i dollar bestselling author and former federal prosecutor, jeffrey tube and siemens, abby philip and kaitlan collins anchor news night and the source respectively, cnn senior legal analysts elie honig and cnns keras can, who was in court today's so let's start with you. what was like in court so

as judge merchan does, he got on the bench when she began immediately with this saying that he found trump in contempt for the 10th time, and then he looked directly at trump and had him this $1,000 fine is not acting as a deterrent for you. >> so i will have to consider jailing you as the next option. and he said to him, mr. trump, it's important to understand that the last thing i want to do is put you in jail the sizing to him that it was the last resort. but saying that he may be left with no choice than to do that and even set to trump that to do this would be disruptive and he knew that trump wanted this one to get this over with as soon as possible mean, i could see trump. he was looking at the judges. he was addressing him, but he did not speak back. and in fact, the judge said to him, if you have anything, you can talk to your lawyer. >> i mean, this is unprecedented, obviously. >> likely. >> i think it remains unlikely, but i think the judge is putting down a marker here. he's saying this is where my patients runs out and it's important to note, the judge has given donald trump every benefit of the doubt when it comes to this gag order. i

mean, the gag order itself has already very brought it allows rants like the one we just saw, but also even today, there were four alleged violations that de i went to the judgments and we think he violated four times and the judge said three of them, i think are okay. not proven. the two were trump reacted to strongly to michael cohen and the one where donald trump made a comment about david pegoda, judge said, no, doesn't violate the order. the one the judge did find is the comment about the jury, and you can't touch the jury. that is just no-go third rail. so the judges really airing in trump's favor here on the gag order. and i think the trump is reasserting domination and control of his courtroom are there where would you go yeah. >> so i mean, if you want a little breaking news, one of the reasons why i was a little bit late as apparently harvey weinstein is being transferred as we speak, from bellevue hospital to rikers island. so i'll be there tomorrow donald, look donald trump's not going to be anywhere near any other inmate in rikers island and the united states, marshall's custody, he will be in a room

probably by himself i will tell you my experience is and i always defer to john mellor. >> judge doesn't have control of the where his house. he just says officer, take hold and take charge. i'm sorry. obviously, take charge. they then would put the handcuffs typically, i don't know about donald trump around a regular person's back and they lead them outside and then it's the department of corrections that determines where you go now, they've old they do have contingency plans. it also depends on how long the judge sentences and four, he could say opsin take charge for six hours, and then there's a cell in that building. >> a lot of them that's where arraignments is is downstairs in the billing is a lot of them is someone that floor itself they don't necessarily have to put them in a cell. >> he just can't leave. >> so my educated guess is that they're just going to put them in a room and say, mr. president, you're not allowed to leave this room because judged the more sean said, you gotta be it for the next six

hours or eight hours, or maybe even overnight. >> but there so many entities here that want to make sure not a hair on donald trump's head is even the risk of being harmed. >> one point worth making about this whole chapter is that sinc merchan made the first finding of contempt. he has not committed contempt again, so trump is not continuing to do this there have been two separate findings of contempt, but for all the former presidents complaints about how unfair this is, how terrible it is. he has not committed violation of the gag order since then. and my sense is he probably won't again, just want to read more of what the judge actually said to trump today said mr. trump, it's important to understand that last thing wanna do is put you in jail. you are the former president united states, and possibly the next president as well. there are many reasons why incarceration is truly a last resort for me to take that step would be disruptive to these proceedings, which i imagine you want to end as

quickly as possible. >> i've just politically kaitlan, what would what would this mean? i mean, the argument is that trump would relish it in the sense that he would be able to argue what he's been arguing every day outside that courtroom that he is being politically persecuted here, that he can't use his first amendment ride. he can't speak freely. this is protected political speech. the idea that dog i'll trump actually would want to go to jail is ridiculous. anyone who knows him knows that he doesn't even like to stay in a hotel when he goes on foreign trips, when he wouldn't as president, it was a whole thing to actually get him to stay overnight and places. so this idea that he actually does want to do this for the optics perspective. i mean, when you speak to his closest advisers, they'll an allies, they'll say that it's completely far-fetched. they'll do they think it would work to their advantage, maybe politically, but i do think donald trump heating this is something that you never see donald trump do, which is actually watching his words and he keeps acknowledging that every time he goes into that courtroom, even if he is lying about what the gag order

actually says, he can and cannot do. he is being careful and he did the same something after the e gene carol verdict came out where he was found to have defamed her and i was going to cost them a lot of money. he changed the way that he would speak publicly about her until until he defamed her with you in your in your town hall and then she ended up bringing him back to court over that incident. so he does have his moments when i don't know, maybe can't help himself i was surprised to see the judge even just acknowledged the jail part of this because i guess this has been in the conversation whether i don't know if he's paying attention or not, that he wouldn't do it. so the idea that he would at least warn trump, but that was on the table, that wasn't being taken off the table it's just an important reminder to trump that the judges in charge here and trump is used to being the boss he's used to being the president. he's not in this particular context and it did feel like judge merchan wanted to make sure that he was aware that nothing is off the table

really, and that he will do what he has to do to maintain order in his courtroom. >> how important was the actual testimony today, particularly in the morning, it's maybe not headline making in terms of the documents. it's never it's kind of boring to listen to, but it is important for the prosecution's case, huge of hugely important because this is a case about providing, creating false business records. the jury saw the business records today for the first time. i think this case is coming down to one thing. it is quite clear that the government has proved this was money reimbursed for two cone for hush money. i don't think there is any way the jury can believe these were actually legal fees i also think that means the records were false. i mean, these were not legal fees, but the thing that government has improved and they didn't prove it today, was that trump created these records or was involved in the creation of those records. and i think that's gonna be the prosecution's challenge as the rest of the case unfolds because that's just not there

yet. >> i can make the argument that any payment to a lawyer is a legal fee. i mean, what does that what does the legal fee mean? is there some official definition? >> if i may that's a great point and people have asked me about that. my dad asked me about walking into the building. i think the difference here and as and as he took out a home equity line of credit or a home equity loan if he just said, look, i'm going to write i know you're caught up. i'm going to write it out on my own escrow went up. we can't do it. does ask kroger my own operating account and you'll cover let me have on it later. it would smell a lot better. look a lot better than i'm putting my own. i think it was his family residents up on the table and i just need to say this. i thought judge merchan today handled himself perfectly the way he handled trump with the gag order. i really do. >> you think it was smart to mention? >> i think i just think he handled it. look, i work in that courthouse. i want the sanctity of that courthouse to be preserved, whether it's

donald trump's sitting there, joe biden sitting there, george w bush sitting there, or anyone else? i want the sanctity of that courthouse and i want everyone to have the follow the rules and abide by the rules and basically donald trump's fate regarding jail and not gel with the gag or isn't his own hands? he could handle themselves like the way he did today. there was clearly no violation for what he said today or he could thumb his nose and forced the judges hand and that would be unfortunate that the george w bush case will be very caitlin you got to tell us understand just short time ago about what witnesses on the stand can actually see and cancer. >> okay. so this is really fascinating to me. i talked to one of the witnesses who testified, obviously, we're not going to say which one, but they told me because, you know, we watch the witness and we watch the defendant. we watched the jury when you're the room, qarrah obviously it's been there every single day observing this and we talk about whether or not the witness is looking in donald trump's direction as their answered questions or when they're in the room. >> i talked you can't actually

see donald trump from the witness stand. >> you cannot because where they're seated there, the juries to their left in the judge's bench extends out so far, it's a for exaggerated than than in this graphic that we're showing there where the judges right there in the middle, but it extends out so far that is the witness. >> unless you greatly exaggerated your posture and lean forward, you cannot see donald trump, the only person you can see as the first member of his defense team who is sitting in that first chair. typically, it's been a meal bove who's been conducting the cross-examination, but but this person was surprised to learn that when they walked in the room, you walk behind donald trump in his attorneys, you go to the witness stand and once you're sitting there, you can actually see him a wise, you're delivering your testimony. >> that's that's deliberate, by the way because witnesses forget about this case. but if it's someone who robbed you, are someone who murdered someone in your family it really intimidate someone that i have to point and say so a lot of times when an identification and in court identification has to take place, the individual who's on the witness stand has to stand

up and saying, oh, yeah, there's the person over there and what of times if i'm not at the first position that katelyn just described, and i'm in that third position and the defendants in the middle i get up and go behind the bar with the court's permission, and i sit in the front row because i want to be able to see the body language and everything. so but it's not just a coincidence that person, if you're sitting where donald trump is, can you, can see the defendant or does he really would kinda have to look over it and i prefer it on every defendant that they can't see the is because the jury's that's what they juries look. how is the defendant reacting to that to the guy who robbed me. that's the guy on the subway who stole my stuff. and you don't want them being make it movements. i'm happy that that they can see michael cohen probably too. >> yeah, it's not today though dramatically changed his position to be able to watch one of the witnesses and he was craning his neck and a chain like turned his chair so he could see, but it does also explain why he's looking at the monitor. a lot of the time

because that's probably his best view of seeing what the witnesses are. expressions are carriers can all thanks so much everyone else de with this coming up next with the foreign president said back in 2018 when he was first asked about the payment michael colon made to store me, daniel's and where he got the money for it that and how the witnesses today describe some of the process, the full transcript is just out. >> john berman is going through it. he'll bring us that plus the latest& organs hamas, the ceasefire proposal that fell through. and whether israel is about to go into rafah you think you. know the story, but there's been the surface how would really happens with jesse l. >> martin sunday's at night on cnn this mango hint water tastes just like mango how can $1 per bottle? >> it's just. your mother and i went different thing which is why we got sling tv. so we can

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as it is to see a former prisoner, united states on trial facing felony charges. it was also pretty stunning when the president was asked about the hush money payments de a board air force one back in 2018 what my name well, you have to as michael kohn, michael's my attorney. >> and you'll have to ask michael kahn i, don't know well, he did not know about the payment to the porn star. >> he said and he did not know where michael cohen got the money to pay her. both realize now the question is, were the records of his reimbursements to cohen for said payoffs falsified. and was it on his orders today, the prosecution began trying to answer those questions john burman just got the trial transcript for more detail and about what was actually said in court. so what more did the bookkeeper, longtime trump organization employees say in her testimony about how trump sign the

checks. >> well, he did sign them, which is important, i think and this is from dead tarasoff, as you said, the accountant there, this first exchange, you don't have because we just got it in, but the attorney, chris conway asked who could sign the checks for the dj t account in 2016 or 2017? answer. you're talking about mr. trump's personal account? yes. >> only mr. trump. she said, was that true back in 2016 and 2017? >> she answers, yes. if you know, the attorney asks, is that still true today deb tarasoff says, yes is question that was any check. it didn't matter the amount she answers. it didn't matter. that was for signing the checks, then in about a minute later, they started asking, did he have to sign a check if he was sent to check to side because because alan yslow broke signed off in an invoice, did he have to sign it? the question didn't in mr. trump have to sign a check because missile warsaw berg approved it depth tarasoff says, no, if he didn't want assign it, he didn't sign it. question. did you ever see

situations where he didn't sign checks? her answer? >> yes what would happen in those situations? >> they ask answer. he would write void on it and send it back question how do you know he would right. voigt on she answers. it was signed in a sharpie in black. that is what he usually does. >> this is great testimony for the prosecution and a couple of reasons. first of all, it's visceral. you can see even just the detail about the sharpie, right? we all know he uses the sharpie, but yeah, exactly. he loves the sharpie. circles, hurricanes, and stuff. >> but it you can remember that it's a lasting image. the other thing is he has the ability and the resources to say no, he is involved enough that some checks he says not signing this, not legitimate void. yet he's signing these checks to michael cohen now, the defense will come back on that, but this puts the defense on a teal. this is a really important point in favor of the prosecution because essentially they're saying that he didn't just do whatever alan weisberg handed over or whatever checks he sent to the white house, which is when he signed to these checks to michael cohen. and that was the testimony also

from the trump controller. the organization organization controller, who told the story about how trunk tried to fire him when he first started his job, he went in and troubles on the phone and said your fired and then trump hang up and said, okay, you're not actually fired, but you need to start paying closer attention to the bottom line here and making me financially whole. and that just because a bill is due, doesn't mean you pay that bill and full of what they're asking that you negotiated down. so trump was even saying he was saying that close attention to what these numbers were, which i think the prosecution was doing going to say donald trump paid attention to where his money was. >> and of course, i mean, when you're talking about what the michael cohen payment really ended up being, which was not just 130,000, but over and above that by bohr 20 times, basically, the idea that donald trump would then say the same man who says, you gotta negotiate down my bills before i pay it, would then say, oh, i don't care that i'm paying him $420,000, which is way more than he was owed. that is the part that i think is gonna be

hard for any reasonable person to believe that's a common sense thing that i think the prosecution put on the table today with that testimony, you can see the defense, though, come coming into focus here. what they're are going to argue and they started doing it today on the cross exam is michael cobos essentially embezzling was essentially ripping off his own company because he sees okay. he lays out $130,000. he ends up getting payback four, 20 is donald trump the kind of person who's going to say this is what the defense will argue. okay. michael cohen, you laid out 130,000 for me. great. here's $130,000.00 back, whereas donald trump, the kind of person who's going to knowingly say, this is great, michael, thank you for doing this. i'm going to pay you back a triple defensive this is gonna go they want to say he's a penny pinching. you're done, right? he's a penny picture. he wouldn't have paid four 20 unless he was defrauded essentially by michael cole. one more point. this is the same moment in time when michael collin has now pled guilty to ripping off, don't bank and two, ripping off the irs for his personal finances. so they're going to argue he was ripping off everyone in sight at this point. donald trump was i mean, that's an

that's actually not how i would interpreted that those same set of facts. i think it's reasonable, but i also think it's reasonable for the prosecution to basically argue the idea that donald trump is going to be ripped off by michael cohen as if he is just a passive player in all of this, that too, i think is difficult to play. >> was there something in the transcript about that stood out to john about the way the trump organization actually operated? yeah. chaotically very chaotically. and this came out in the defense, emil beauvais asking the controller, jeffrey mcconney question now, i think you said before january 2017, was it? period of flux and chaos at the trump organization, mcconney says, that's putting it mildly. bove says, and that's because president trump become president united states, right? because he says yes, sir. beauvais and the way of doing business and the company had to change, right? >> mcconney drastically. bove says, and there was a period where things were in flux because you're trying and to figure out how to do that,

right? mcconney says, yes, sir. and for the first time in decades, president trump's main office was in washington, dc, hundreds of miles away, or mcconney says, yes, sir. so he was not new york as must as you had been previously, the sign personal cheques mcconney. i don't remember seeing him in new york at all. and anderson was wondering thing i want to point out that was all over the testimony today. it's a person it's alan yslow, birth play a huge role in this testimony today. this is just one exchange and we have a corresponding document to show you matthew angelo, the prosecutor who was asking the questions any for part of it says mr. mcconney, now showing you a document that's been marked people's 35. do you recognize this document, mcconney says, yes, glandular says, what is it? mechanic? is this is the bank statement that allen gave me to put in the files colangelo says is their handwriting on this document, mcconney says there are two sets of handwriting at the bottom of the document. do you recognize the handwriting? i recognize the handwriting. the left side of the page, but not the right side of the page, whose handwriting is on the left side of the page. but connie says that belongs to alan yslow glad you asked, how

do you recognize his handwriting? mcconney says i've read his handwriting for about 35 years. >> but now, but that document is so important, that document is the most important document. oh, okay. okay. so is this question-and-answer on cross-examination and maybe we should look at the document okay it's so important it's so important, it's very i'm not i'm not denying izzat important. and he talks about mcconney, are all the things he did to create that business record. and here's the question president trump did not ask you to do things you described. answer he did not why is that document? >> well, what can we can we call it up? >> i started to put people on there. >> it is. >> alan weissberg on the left is doing the calculations of how cohen got paid the $130,000 plus the, uh, hundred $30,000 to cover his taxes and then

$60,000 bonus. this corroborates cones version of how the how the whole transaction went down. so it's not like michael own made up this whole film. >> as you said earlier in this show, you said that that's not going to be the issue. the issue is knowledge. the issue is did the issue is president trump did not ask you to do anything you describe. he did not. that document doesn't prove that i agree with you, but you don't have to prove the whole case with a single dot document that case proves a very significant part of the case which is which is not illegal testifying allen, he's in jail and you know, if donald trump gaetz acquitted, the fact that allan weiss hilberg has pleaded guilty, gone to prison and. >> stayed off the witness stand. here is an incredible gift to donald trump i mean, this is the definition of a stand-up guy. i don't think

it's admirable since he's a criminal, but i mean, it is an amazing gift that alan weisberg has given donald trump just to reemphasize what jeffrey even just said, the trump team didn't want this document to be it will to be used as evidenced at this trial and speaks to i think their level of concern about how the jury will read it. >> my question always with this with trump and with his intent is it's, it comes down to does trump have to say? please falsify these documents in order to pay michael cohen or is there another way to substantiate what he's got? >> he's got to have knowledge because i mean, he may not know other than substantiated michael gold, michael girls you to take the stand and say he told me to do it. and as they said, if i'm the prosecutor, i'm not saying you can't get a convince you of michael colon. what i'm going to take. i'm going to say no vena before he takes the step much more head, including what stormy daniel said just last year about negotiations for getting page or less going to farrow joins us next, he wrote

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sense makes absolute sense jonny snail's journalist ronan farrow, he wrote about the hush money scheme, center of this trial and 2019 bestselling book, catch and kill. >> you explored other alleged hush money payments made on the former presence behalf putting the uh, hundred and $50,000 payment from the national enquirer is publisher to buy the rights to former playboy model karen mcdougal. a story about an alleged affair with trump years earlier. i mean, your reporting showed that kind of a round about payments used in this system to prevent a paper trail was the trump team successful in this? let me did it work? >> i think today's testimony indicates that up to a point they were successful, and i think this speaks to the way in which prosecutors have sequenced their case, they started out with the wider narrative that gets at intent. this collusion with ami the karen mcdougal case, the dorman case. the idea that there was a serial pattern with a specific intent spirit to subvert the election, then they get to the heart of the matter. and that's what we saw today. and

we see this paper trail and we see the fact that there was indeed as jeffrey was speaking to a set of records that seem manifestly falsified. what is much harder for them to establish at this point in the case is the idea that donald trump personally they ordered them a direct order is direct order has direct intent because by intent, they were keeping his prints off of things. >> so an order was given by donald trump would have been given two on yslow berg. >> that's right. so everything was going through middlemen and i think this underscores why cones testimony is going to be so important because we heard a lot of from our two witnesses today well, no, it didn't come from trump and trump's lawyers, i think did score when when a male beauvais ask that directly and they said, no, it didn't come from him. that does reflect that the scheme to keep trump distanced from this to an extent worked i mean, depending what side of the aisle you're sitting in the courtroom, the idea that so much relies and cones tests some one is, can be kind of terrifying. i think it is terrifying for prosecutors and we have a number of people

at this desk who have had conversations, people around this case. and what you hear very quickly is they have a thorny matter to navigate with michael cohen and his credibility issues as history of lying, that said he is going to be a potent witness in this it's case. they have made strides in getting him to shut up on social media. and and other forums. and i think they're going to try their best with him. >> and the trump team is like single-handedly focused on michael cohen. i mean, notice todd blanche has lead attorney has not done any of the other cross-examination here. it's just been a meal beauvais doing it and obviously the prosecution will get michael cohen to say what they want him to say when he testifies. but right after that is going to be the cross-examination and they're essentially preparing for it to be blistering. >> do you think i mean ruang, given all your appointed do you think there's any chance that donald trump did not know what was behind the checks he was signed. >> it really beggars belief, given what we heard about the organizational structure today, i think despite the sun the official win of trump's team getting these witnesses to say, no, we didn't get direct orders. what we learn more

deeply and these are jurors are carefully taking notes. they're paying attention. is that this byzantine structure in this organization, in a particular way, they approached these transactions, was designed to prevent that direct order from happening. or this was not an act accident that they have this structure. >> it was not an accident. and then what we learned about their general practice is that for payments over $10,000, donald trump really was in on the decision-making that he was not a passive observer, that this was not such a giant organization that these kinds of things could have happened without him knowing. and the witnesses, despite that weakness, i just alluded to smoke to that over and over again. >> i think ron, it makes a great argument that the prosecution is going to make, is it beggars belief that donald trump did know he must have known the question is, is that proof beyond a reasonable doubt? is it? >> if you don't, that jeff for you, it's okay. it's more than whether he knew the payment was being made that's not the crime here. the crime here is did he know it was going to be recorded in the

booklets? >> it's part of the same thing, right? >> but if they proved beyond a reasonable doubt, donald trump knew that the payment was made. they will be found not guilty. it has have to go to the next step that he knew that they were going to falsify the business the fact that he's signing checks in the white house. i mean, it does sort of speak to a level of his involvement, absolute. he's got a lot of important things you would think at the white house to be doing other than signing these checks, you would think and it speaks to a despite the sort of small ball stakes of the actual business accounting matters and relatively small penalty it's attached. the actual vast sticks up some bernick an election in a way that voters should care about. and i think many of these jurors will, that this was a man sitting in the oval office involved in these schemes, involved in what looks on its face like dirty accounting. and that as hope hicks spoke to last week he expressed the di glad that these stories started to emerge after he got in, that it would have been worse for them if the scheme hadn't

transpired in this way, i saw a picture this weekend, the karam would do go seem to have been reading your book while taking a bath. do you think she will be called? >> they fought hard. they the prosecutors to get permission to let her testimony in, and they got that permission. i think there was based on my conversations and intention to do that at some point. now, what we're seeing so far is that they have tackled the ami part of this story, which would be where karen was involved early on. so i think it's now somewhat more doubt. >> thank you so much. more coming up with the panel ahead. more breaking news as well, israel now conducting what it calls targeted strikes in eastern raffa hours after our moss had accepted a cease fire proposal, but not the one israel to say that they helped craft a live report from the region as well as new york times columnist thomas freeman joins us, add ga the advanced form of dry age-related macular degeneration can irreversibly damaged your vision it can

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>> brand new whatever comes your way. >> there's a pro for that bro like it never even happened. >> he there brenda it's carol exactly. so which like are we operating on? >> you mean arm it's all connected, asking the right question can greatly impact your future. you share, you're an orthopedist i'm actually i'm a sagittarius specially when it comes to your finances, give a question. >> are you a certified financial planner? yes. i'm a cfp professional cop professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. >> that's why it's gotta be a cfb bind your cfp professional, and let's make a plan.org hi like signs at the white house and this is cnn or uncertainty tonight in the middle east, where there has been talk of

his hard deal accepted by hamas& some palestinians. the streets of gaza to celebrate earlier those celebrations for net to be premature. israel says the proposed of the proposal brokered by egypt and khader is far from its vote necessary requirements and quote, and is promising to press on with his military offensive and raffa, though it does still seem willing to negotiate tonight gunfire was heard in rough on the egyptian sayyed, the border it's gunfire on the other side of the board over heard from the egyptian side of the border, seen as jeremy diamond as live in jerusalem with very latest. so what are the parameters of the proposal that hamas? apparently agreed to and who's proposal is that well, anderson, the first question we had when we saw this news that hamas had agreed to a ceasefire proposal was which proposal are they talking about? >> because for the last week or so we've been talking about an egyptian framework which the israeli government helped craft

and had effectively tacitly agreed to. but this latest proposal, which hamas is apparently agreed to according to a senior israeli and a senior american official, is not that same egyptian framework proposal. instead, it is a new proposal updated from that egyptian framework which hamas worked on with the key mediators involved. but it differs from that original proposal in several key respects. the most important of which is the fact that it calls for an end to the war in gaza altogether. and that has really been a red line for the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. and so what we're hearing is that the israeli prime minister's office is saying this proposal does not meet their core demands and clearly those celebrations in gaza that we were seeing sadly, have been premature. the israeli government says it is sending a working level delegation to meet with the mediators to see if a path forward can be achieved to reach a deal. but as of now, that remains very, very unclear. >> what are you learning about? what's happening in raffa

tonight? >> well, you saw that video of the gunfire that you can hear from the other side of the egyptian, the raffa border crossing. and our analysts barack ravid is reporting tonight that is really tanks and troops have begun to move in towards that rafat border crossing. this incursion comes less than 24 hours after the israeli government for him began dropping leaflets, thousands of leaflets on eastern raffa, ordering about 100,000 people to begin to evacuate northwards in gaza and less than 24 hours after that, we're hearing that gunfire. we're seeing explosions lighting up the night sky above refer this as the israeli war cabinet spoke tonight and decided to move forward with the military pressure, move forward with this operation in raffa, in order they say to ramp up the military pressure on hamas. so not only is this aiming to try and capture key hamas infrastructure in raffa, they saying? but it's also clearly a negotiating tactic as well. anderson, germany

dominant. thank you. it's already tuesday, the seventh in israel is actually seven months the day that hamas attacked. perspective. now from someone who knows the region well, new york times foreign affairs columns, thomas friedman joins us. he's the author of multiple bestsellers, including from beirut to jerusalem. there's a new forward to the audio book out just now so tom i mean, if hamas doesn't back away from its insistent on a permanent cease fire, do you believe any agreement is possible well, it's very clear what prime minister netanyahu wants. >> he wants a ceasefire & a hostage return, but not a permanent cease fire. so he can complete the war for in his view, and achieved total victory hamas wants a prisoner exchange. hostage return, any permanent sees wildfire. so a mosque in a leader, yahya sinwar and walk out of his tunnels and say, he stood up against the israelis for seven months plus, and that he one and i don't know how they're going to basically split the

difference on that one because nectar and you need to be able to finish the war for bureij point of view. and a seen moire needs the war to be finished. is finishing the war as israel, since is that do you think that's even feasible sinwar obviously seems to have done a fine job of hiding thus far yeah. you know, i don't see how netanyahu wins since he's never defined winning other than this elusive concept of total victory, that is canvas in wars are fought for political ends and the political endear from israel's point of view would be obvious. >> it goes in, it dismantles, defeats hamas, then it leaves and turns over the gaza strip to some governing authority other than israel so israel is an occupying the west bank and gaza at the same time. but because netanyahu has refused to partner with the most logical governing authority, the palestinian authority in the west bank or any other governing authority. it's

never been clear what victory actually means. wars are fought for political ends and net two never defined the political end of a military victory that he wants out of this war. so he can't win. >> it's also obviously wants to stay in power. there's a lot of belief that as soon as the war is done, there will be a reckoning forehand, or at least some sort of judgment on the failures of that occurred on october 7th. he's also got this this coalition of right-wing groups who needs, in order to stay in power yeah i mean, there's no question that his ultimate goal is to stay in power. so he has the basis to plea bargain in the corruption trials that, that he's now in the middle of. >> so that for him means keeping the war going. >> but at the same time, he faces enormous pressure at home i'm from the israeli public at large, and particularly a hostage families that want a

resolution of the war. so he's in a very difficult situation, but given the fact that again, it all goes back to the fact anderson that when he started this war he needed three things that didn't you. he needed time. >> you need a resources as needed legitimacy together time and resources to feed hamas. >> there's only one way to get the time the resources and legitimacy that was debbie palestinian partner, a logical one would be the palestinian authority, which definitely needs to be reformed, transformed, overhaul old with new leadership. but if you had that partner, he would have bought time with the world, with the arab world, and have a basically someone to turn gaza over with because he refused to have that partner. because having that partner, he would have lost his crazy right-wing fringe of the coalition that keeps them in power. he's basically stuck and he's left israel stuck because these basically put his own political survival ahead of what would take what we required for

israel to thrive here the us has, in the past encouraged at the very least, a limited, more limited operation in raffa and more a targeted strikes against hamas. >> and obviously trying to take far more, pay more attention to civilian casualties what will be the fallout if israel does proceed with a full ground incursion into rafah i'll be very surprised, anderson if they do that. i think they've heard president biden loud and clear. administration officials have vague clear to me that they would engage in some kind of arms embargo if israel did engage in a full fledged attempt to take over raffa without evacuating people. i think what nothing i was trying to do here is is basically close off or enter into that area between raffa and the gypsum border, which is one of the main smuggling routes that hamas is used just tons and tons of material have come in from egypt smuggled under that

raffa boarder into raffa and there's been it's really been a huge problem of free is really huge asset for hamas. >> so as a way to put pressure on them, i'm guessing what's going on here is israel's trying to put us up in a position to really cut off that border or put a normal there was pressure on it. >> i think that's what's going on. >> i'm framing. thanks so much thank you. okay. me and cosine in the middle east is much more to come on. week four up, down from hush money trial, the former president held and criminal contempt accord. again, the judge warrants it couldn't be jail time next the latest ahead the whole myth has to be reimagined feed if you didn't know whether you were next they are both tied up. yeah. yeah. i was called a nice soft i've white turned out to be the big heist in history it went from gold medal winning

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