safe closed captioning brought to you by meso book.com her firm only represents mesothelial of victims and their families. >> if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma call us now welcome to our breaking news coverage of the historic donald trump hush money criminal trial, embryonic healer and washington kaitlan collins is outside of the courthouse in new york. >> and today, the woman at the center for this case, stormy daniels, was back on the witness stand. the adult film star delivering a combative testimony strongly pushing back

as former president trump's lawyer for tried to discredit her story and her motivation for telling it, often using her career in the adult film industry for reference one exchange reading quote, necklace, the lawyer saying you have a lot of experience of making phony stories about sex appear to be real. daniels responds, wow, that's not how i would put it. the second in the films is very much real, just like what happened to me in that room. the sex is real. that's why it's pornography necklace than asking, now, you have a story you've been telling about having sex with president trump daniels answers, if that story was untrue, i would have written it to be a lot better. >> and that's not the only moment where trump's team highlighted daniels work in the adult film industry. >> caitlin know, it's certainly not. >> they repeatedly pointed to that and there was another moment where trump's attorney, susan nicholas daniels and choose questioning her, and nicholas asked her and i'm quoting trump's attorney now, she said you acted& had sex&

over 200 porn movies. daniels responded it was 150. nicholas responded to that, but according to you, seeing a man sitting on a bet and a t-shirt and boxers? so shorts, referencing the former president was so upsetting that you got lightheaded. the blood luck you're hands and feet and you almost fainted stormy daniels pushing back saying yes, she was surprised to indeed see the future president of the united states like that, given he was twice her age and his body guard was standing outside that hotel suite i'm here outside of the courthouse was seen as chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid, and cnn's chief domestic correspondent, phil mattingly. moments ago, the judge said they will take a break for lunch, and obviously stormy daniels was on the stand for an incredible amount of time, paula, now, it is a trump organization. employee who is testifying about something that is less salacious than what we heard from stormy daniels. but maybe just as important because she is essentially talking about how this paper trail of getting these checks trump organization in new york to the

white house in washington, did it. they weren't just sent to the white house. she was sending them to the personal homes of two top trump aides, johnny mac and t and q it's schiller. >> that's exactly right. and the reasons she has to testify because of the trump team will not stipulate that yes, this is how the checks went from the trump organization to the white house security route. but to eventually to the white house. once he became president, they will not stipulate that is a defense strategy. they want to bog the jury down and as much mundane task testimony as possible, which is why for we're hearing from her about the journey these checks take. well, most people will probably be thinking and talking about stormy daniels testimony and the salacious things we heard. in fact, is when the jury goes eventually to engage in their deliberations about the actual criminal charges here allegedly falsifying business records. i heard testimony is going to be something that they are going to have to consider it. think about, okay, let's think about where these checks came from. who had eyes on them? where they were going. so not the most exciting witness, but she is an important building block to try to prove these charges.

i mean, this jury probably needs a bit of a breather. i mean, they just listened to six hours of intense testimony and intense cross-examination from trump's team. i mean, there are some questions about what was the strategy that trump's team was using going into this today? because it seemed pretty effective on tuesday afternoon as we're cross-examining her basically accusing her of extorting trump today, part of the question phil was on whether or not they actually had dinner the night that she met trump and they were supposed to have dinner. >> the escalation, i think in tone and tenor from the defense was dramatic, and i think very, very tangible compared to what we'd seen at the beginning of their cross-examination, you mentioned that it wasn't just tone, it was actually kind of subject matter and focus as well. look to begin killing. >> you may have said this really clear. there is a very shaming aspect to it on some level, on some of the things you were just sitting there and it's worth noting that the waste from daniel's tells the story the reason why she went up to donald trump's room. she was supposed to be meeting him for dinner. she's supposed to go up to his room to go to dinner. and the reason why she was surprised is because they'd had a conversation

serwer to the bathroom when before she'd gone to the bathroom, he was fully dressed when she came back out. he was sitting there and his underwear. so i think my question as i've been watching this play out, as are reporters in the room have been reporting through it is what happened to trigger a shift didn't tone and/or ship shift in subject matter in terms of where the defense was going with this cross and what's the jury think of it because in the end, those 12 people were really all that matters here. >> and the prosecution didn't seem to think maybe that they had all that much to do on cleanup because it was pretty short when they got up to the question her after trump's attorneys had had their moment with her this morning? yeah. they didn't seem too worried. >> they got through a couple little nitpicky things and moved on really swiftly. the trump defense team, they needed to keep the client out of jail. >> and right now, the possibility of jail looms large because if he violates the gag order again by attacking a witness like for example, stormy daniels, uh, judges made it clear he will consider sending him to jail. so if the defense attorneys in order to allay trump's frustrations and concerns about what stormy

daniels said on tuesday, if they have to get up and go in the weeds about the paranormal possum or all these other things? we went just so far down the rabbit hole, things, no material value to this case. if that's what they have to do to appease their client, to keep him in line and keep him out of jail. >> i get it. >> yeah. i didn't have pawsome being in the court record. i did not want my bingo card this morning phil mattingly, paula reid we will get back to us as we are monitoring this, the court is taking a quick break. briana, as they wait to bring up this witness back, and that is when we do expect trump's attorneys to question this witness and type that courtroom briana all right. >> yeah. we'll be watching after the break here. caitlin, thank our panel here with us in washington. as we digest some of what we've seen today, which has really been a little bit of everything. elie, i wonder what you think moving being from the stormy daniels cross-examination, redirect now to the bookkeeper, what's whiplash for sure for the jury, but this is the natural ebb and flow of trials you'll have a super dramatic contentious moments followed by more mundane moments. i think when i

look back now at the stormy daniels cross-examination sort of in total to me, it was a tale of two cross-examinations yesterday, the last hours are tuesday, the last hour or so was extraordinarily effective. i think they really undermined stormy daniels credibility. her motives. she'd made prior inconsistent statements. she hates trump. she's openly cheering for him to go to jail. i thought that was very effective. today to me, was off the rails though the line of question that we opened this segment with about while you're in pornography, you know how to fake stories about sex. >> all of that is useless. >> it's pointless. i think it probably turns the jury more in stormy daniels favor. i think they just completely lost the thread this morning with the cross-examined the number one rule of legal practice generally is know when to say when and at a certain point you have gotten the information in the record and get out of there and they open themselves up to things that actually heard the defense to that hurt their cause. a better are not a better example. but another example of this was at one

point, susan necklace asks a question and refers to the indictment. and stormy daniels says which indictment there's a lot of indictments and then the defense braise. there aren't kicked and screamed. does that objection. get it out of the record. and the judge let it in because it was the responsive answer. now, had they cut themselves off yesterday, they could have avoided all of these situations like this. we're stormy daniels as we saw in the introduction here, was actually quite effective at pushing back and coming off as responsive and witty the incredible and frankly vulnerable in these answers, it seems like many legal observers looking at this and i think just even political observers, people who observe trump believe that a lot of this is trump directed. oh yeah, because part of the legal process and you know, this having represented people is client man right. just talk a little bit about that before we talk about the political goings of great things about being a prosecutors, you don't have a client that's where all of the american united states of america in your ear at lunch exactly. >> and our reporting by paula

and the team ended up being spot on yesterday afternoon. we talked about it when it broke, briana the reporting came out that donald trump himself was urging his team to be more aggressive& go longer on the cross was stormy daniels today that has to be what happened because i don't think any good tactician and these are all really good petitions would have done that that way, if not for the client, urging them to do so. >> well, we know what donald trump said in his book, which they used, which is if you attack me, i'm going to attack you back. and that's exactly what occurred on let's stand. i mean, she was called everything crazy, dishonest money hungry, anxious for fame and it just didn't go anywhere because it wasn't relevant to the case and all they were trying to do was to destroy her and say, you're lying. you always lie. that's what you do for a business. you lie you lie on pornographic movies, you lie, and the thing about stormy daniels does she didn't give an inch she did not give an inch.

and i'm wondering how the jury will react to that because she was being attacked. and i don't know whether they would like that. >> yeah. i take out the human stuff, the personality is what we think of all these people and so on. and just look at what was in the record at the end of the day hey, on tuesday and it was a tax on the witnesses credibility, and attacks on the witnesses financial motivations, and those were in, fall. you don't gain anything can go. again, think that the other day though was less effective for her as a witness. >> and this stay because the way they structured the cross-examination, for example, what the first thing they asked her cross-examination, you hate donald trump doped you. she said yes, honest answer but a big hey, against the person's credibility of a witness hates the guy in the defendants chair. it's a big deal that's really important for the jury to know they confronted her with a prior inconsistent statement. the way i would have by the way, i handled the whole sexual encounter if i was the defense team one question you say in 2018, you signed a

statement that that sexual encounter never happened, didn't you and she would've said yes, but i was forced to sign it or i've signed because i'm scared, but leave it at that. just leave it with the jury. he told you one thing, but she signed a statement afterwards saying it never happened. that's so much more effective than picking it the margins of while you were at dinner. but you said you ate dinner, but did you eat that? >> do you think that's because social moore's around sex have changed, right? it's not 2008, it's not 2007 is not 2015. we are post-metoo to post all of the other allegations against the former president and people are much more familiar with the idea of sexual ambivalence in an encounter. so you can't just throw a woman up there say you're a porn star in an era where young people are calling her a sex work. great point, it feels like a different approach, like they did the thing you would do in the 90s, which is to have a woman do that cross exam, but i'm wondering from a legal perspective is this thing you're talking about fundamentally different from the way you might have talked about it, right? ten or 15

years ago when just the very virtue two of what she does for a living in of itself would be the credibility problem earlier in the week i made i made a similar comment and sort of booked in agree with me on that point i suggested that i still think there are jurors are going to hear the word porn star and still judge, here on account of that fact, now, society, i agree with that part, but for instance, and again, i don't want to quote directly because we're hearing this thing paraphrase, but kind of saying you did phony six and then stormy daniels has to say like, i don't think you know what porn is. >> my everyone gets to laugh at that. and as you said, it's sort of going further into territory that isn't necessarily working for you in terms of what it's supposed to do, which is to undermine her somehow. lie. it seems like donald trump is running the show because it seems kind of outdated and i know that i'm just curious like, what are you hearing in the way they're going down this path and whether they're actually

equipped to go down that path. >> and maybe that's why it felt a little skits for our social mores, change, and you have to adjust for that if you're a courtroom lawyer, you're jury is 12 people who live in manhattan in 2024. and i think you're right. i think this would have played very differently in 1952, your honor, your urine pornography my goodness, in 2024 in manhattan i don't think anyone cares and i certainly don't think people see that as a sign of dishonesty yeah, i would say no. >> i still think i still think there are folks who are who are still trapped in the 19 mindset who we're judging this. but i think as a general matter, number one absolutely societies evolved on these points and you just ought not go there anymore. and number two they just appear to be beating up the witness in a way that humanized her, in a way that she was not the day before because it was the day before tuesday's before it was purely inconstant assistances in her statements, not statements. calling into question her choice of profession. and the

mere fact that because she had sex with somebody on camera, that therefore that opened the door to this conduct with the former president. and the fact that she's making money off of this was something that they also really delved into, but they have meaning of her encounter on her with john and so they delved into that the candles she sold and everything else. the book and but they're representing a client who makes money off of everything and cells, bibles and so that's a bit of a problem where the issue on a social moore's i think i contradict myself as i think about it is also they have to put themselves in in their mindset back to that time to think what would make a presidential candidate scramble who had spent the prior ten years in the tabloids literally as xy is fighting on the ski slope looks like everybody knows these past stories. so why would this suddenly become a thing that needs to be a

panic even among the bookkeepers& this guy and that guy. so i think that this this is the part that's a little tricky about talking about this case is we have our now understanding, but we're asking ourselves to go back in time and think, would this has been a scandal and what would they do? how far would they have gone to deal with that scans are good we were talking about 2006 and 2000 and 2010 and the before time and also people just been informed by having spent much of their life in a pre me to era. certainly. all right. we have so much to talk about obviously, so everyone stay with me, if you will. we're getting all of these trial updates because reporters have been in the courtroom watching the drama happen live. we are in a lunch break, but court will be resuming here in not too long. are reporters when we joining us live next day? >> we're here to get your sayyed of the store affairs, bribery, prostitution. why do we keep ending up? >> you can't write this stuff.

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time. that's 18037, 773026 i'm natasha, bertrand at the pentagon and this is cnn and we're back now with our breaking news coverage of former president trump's hush money criminal trial right now, the court is on lunch break after hours of testimony from adult film star stormy daniel's, the prosecution will be back soon to question their next witness, who is a trump organization bookkeeper? >> let's straighten out to cnn's kara scannell, who has been watching all of this play out in the courtroom. kara, what stood out to you? >> well, ground. i was a fairly contentious cross-examination. i mean, at time susan nechele, trump's attorney and stormy daniels were talking over each other. the judge, at least twice had to tell susan nechele to let daniel's answer the questions they were certainly sparring at times. it seemed like there were a couple of points that trump's side was trying to make on this.

there's stormy daniels was motivated by money going through ways that she had sold merchandise, sold candles, tried to profit off of her relation or her one night with donald trump but stormy daniels was fighting back each every part of the way when they asked her she was profiting. one of the things that daniel said was this is me doing my job, not unlike mr. trump's suggesting that he was also profiting off the indictments that he has faced both here and elsewhere. i'll also a lot of the focus was trying to find holes in squirmy. daniels story pointing out that she he told interviewers different details in 2011 and 2018 that she did not recount in new in court today or vice versa. a lot of the focus seems to be on her saying previous plea that they had dinner, but her testimony today saying that they didn't have dinner they also tried to suggest that prosecutors were feeding her information to try to manage details that she'd given in the book because on with direct examination, one of the prosecutors had asked her, did you mention the floors in the hotel? and she said, oh yeah, the black-and-white tile

floors. so just trying to make it look like she was coached in that she has changed her story and that is something that nicholas had underscored multiple times asking daniels, you made this up, you changed your story, haven't you? daniel saying no, i haven't and sticking to the story. but one other area that trump's lawyers tried to clarify because on direct examination, daniels had said things such as there was a body guard at the door that she blacked out. so they were really focusing some other cross today to ensure that daniel said that she was not forced by donald trump to have sex so far. she said, if if anything, came out of that yesterday or the day before, she that was my my own insecurities made me feel that way so really trying to draw distinction which and that this was not a forced on stormy daniels and that she had had sex willingly with donald trump. and then on the redirect by the prosecutor fusion, they kept that short and sweet trying to just underscore their main points in this asking her, are you telling the true she

said that she is and they said on-balance is your life better? or worse? >> now that you've spoken out publicly about this, and daniel said on-balance that it is worse now, during this period of questioning, as it was heated at times, the jury because they've been paying attention, they've been pretty active. >> i was sitting in a different position because i couldn't see how aggressively they were taking notes today, but they took a lot of notes on tuesday that it changed when we move moved onto the trump organization bookkeeper during her testimony, i'd say the jurors looked a little less engaged, maybe a little more board as she was explaining how the checks the unsigned checks she sent down to washington, dc, they came back signed by donald trump. that though is an important part of this case, is some of the elements of the alleged fraud because part part of the allegation is that trump falsified those documents of those 34 counts 11 of them are the checks that he signed to reimburse michael cohen, brianna are legal observers the thing is, as many fireworks as we saw in the stormy daniels testimony. some of this testimony from the bookkeeper

about check's going back and forth to the white house. ultimately, that is going to be even more important. and i wonder your part cara of this team of reporters that we have tracking this and watching this trial could you all so get a sense of how the jury was was responding to that testimony of stormy daniels really contentious testimony? as she was answering questions from trump's lawyer about a lot of things having to do with the adult film industry yeah. >> i mean, the jury, for the most part, i have seen them keep a straight face throughout. i haven't seen any jurors raise their eyebrows or make faces during any of the testimony they've just methodically been following the process it's cuter or trump's attorney asking the questions and then turning their head to face stormy daniels as she answered the questions, she was leaning back in her chair a little more relaxed today than she was on tuesday day and she just was more direct. she wasn't trying to engage the

jury as much as she had on direct examination when she was looking at them more and making faces, making jokes that were at landing. she was more straightforward today in responding to these questions, but raising her voice at times, but i have not seen any of the jurors crack, the facade of trying to be neutral. they have largely all that i've seen kept straight faces on and just watch the back and forth between the attorneys and daniels even when it got pretty heated, and the judge had to interrupt to say you have to give daniel time to answer the question as he was trying to keep order going and also keep the pace of this he was looking to have them to keep moving this ahead. he wanted her on the stand. first thing this morning, so we could get through this. and he also told the jurors, as we were breaking for lunch, that the parties say that there you're on schedule and maybe even a little head of schedule. so this trial is moving along grana just real quick here. how was trumped today, especially compared to tuesday? >> so trump was at times, again, kind of sitting back with his eyes closed. he takes

that position. we've seen this a lot, but also when they were putting up some of the social media posts that that he had written that stormy daniels had written, he would lean in toward the monitor in front of him. that's where the evidence appears for him for the jurors, for the audience see him at times lean forward and do that. and then there were a number of sidebars today that's when the judge has calls the parties, the lawyers, up to the bench because they're fighting over whether something can come into evidenced or not or a certain line of questioning is okay or not trump is sitting at the table with one of his lawyers and we saw them engaged in a lot of back and forth, a lot of conversations trump at one point that is notepad out where he sometimes writes notes, enhance them to his lawyers so he was paying attention. and then when his junior bookkeeper was on the witness stand, he turned toward her to look toward we've seen he met a few times. we're in someone who works for his company. he pays them attention, whether they can see him or not is unclear, but he does look in their direction to follow along in their testimony. >> really interesting stuff. all right, cara, thank you so much for being our eyes and years there in the courtroom. >> well, much more of our

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healthier. with the oraa ring closed captioning, brought to you by meso book.com our firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. >> if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma call us now we are waiting for four to resume in the first criminal trial of a former president earlier, adults trump watched his attorneys try to discredit the woman who is at the heart of this hush money trial. >> stormy daniels, the adult film actress, they tried

highlighting what they argue are inconsistencies in her for a count of the alleged sexual encounter with trump in 2006. he's says the affair never happened joining us now is george grass. so who is eight new york criminal court judge for more than a decade, he retired hired from the queens county supreme court. >> judge. you have been there inside of the courtroom watching what his stood out to you today well what stood out to me is that donald trump's defense attorney cross-examining stormy daniels, susan nechele really did how homework. >> she did exactly what a good defense attorney is supposed to do. she looked at prior statement since she searched for inconsistencies and she had she had some in particular, there was a lot of questioning about stormy daniels giving in an interview to some kind of a gossip magazine in 2011 where she appeared to allude to weigh how they actually having dinner

in the penthouse with donald trump at the time of the alleged event and the sexual encounter. she testified very clearly tuesday on direct examination that there was no dinner, there was hours of conversation, and no dinner so a defense attorney's job is to try and expose inconsistencies like that to get the jury's to start to think or possibly doubt. well, if you can't trust on that kind of a detail, what about the other details? but did they go that far that they'll call her& tie that the jury would be likely so call her entire testimony in doubt over that issue. i don't know. but the de the defense attorney certainly do the hard job another point that was picked up on where they left off. tuesday on cross-examination was whether or not stormy daniels was interested so then

in money in connection with the non-disclosure agreement that she had an attorney negotiate where she received the $130,000. she continues to state how prime reason wasn't money. it was trying to stay safe based on something else she spoke about about being threatened back in 2011, although by her own admission, she never reported this threat to the police or may the timely report so that was all done. and it was it was quite interesting and she the jury has a lot to think about. yeah. >> yeah, they sure do. i mean susan nicholas really trying to go after as you said, the credibility and the motivation of stormy daniel's a lot of focus on some i guess rather salacious details. >> her the number of films that she was in as a adult film star

some of it seemed a little bit maybe more than she needed to do according to many legal observers who are watching. >> and i wonder how the jury was reacting to that judge and what you think about it well, certainly from what i could see if this jury and i do glance at them i'm taking a lot of notes but i do look up and glance at the jury when i can, and they are very very intense they are intensely following this as far as the delving into stormy daniels background in the adult film industry? >> i mean, when you have a witness of this importance, hope by her own admission, has been in and directed hundreds of adult films. you would kinda i've expect this type of cross then nothing really hit me as being particularly

inappropriate there i i think what's what's to be expected. the jury's got an individual's freedom at stake and the individual is presumed to be innocent. so they did their job. another thing, susan nechele that was important issue was calling into question when stormy daniels testified on direct she tests it's if phi to things like having a blackout and not really being sure your blood leaving her veins. well, that was another area where the defense went right into wagon. you've spoken about this case in the past. you've given interviews about this case in the past. why you're just talking about this now? and stormy daniels, i think fell, came across kind of defensive on those points. now, i'm not saying that that the witnesses credibility was totally undermined& i don't believe it was the underlying major issue. here is whether or not the jury is going to

believe notwithstanding some inconsistencies, maybe some serious inconsistencies. did she entirely fabricate the sexual encounter that she described in sunday? detail with defendant trump in the penthouse suite? i don't think they went so far as to do that. and another thing that they didn't touch much or couldn't really do anything about because of all the documentary support for the people's case and stormy daniels testimony on this is the intensity of the negotiations for the non-disclosure because you're agreement in october of 2016, after the nda after the hollywood access came out. so that part wasn't touched net net-net. the defense did what they needed to do today, but i think that people still have a have a witness who did what she needed to do. and we'll put the jury in a position down the road. if they choose to think that mr. trump is culpable of falsifying business records to

cover up this particular story in conjunction with the $130,000 payment? >> yeah. i think she did her job in the bulk this remains in place. >> as you said, they have a lot to think about and certainly they are doing that on this lunch break, which should be wrapping up here in not too long, judge. george grasses. so thank you so much. we appreciate your perspective as you've watched from inside the courtroom. thanks thank you. >> great to be with you the cross-examination of storms my daniels was originally expected to be on the shorter side, but it turned out that it dragged on for hours after a last-minute change in strategy on the part a former president trump's lawyers. >> so did it work next? we'll have some new reaction from the trump camp is our special coverage continues right after this when the jinx came out, i thought, oh my god when bob has a friend, he expects blind loyalty surprising we put off

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3636. call now this is cnn news welcome back to our breaking news coverage of the historic donald trump hush money criminal trial. >> i'm briana keeler in washington, jake tapper is in new york where he just left the courtroom and is now joining us. jake, tell us, as you've been watching all morning what has really stood out to you with this big testimony from stormy daniels today so obviously, very aggressive questioning by ssrs nicholas. >> i'm sorry, a necklace of stormy daniels, trump's attorney basically trying to get across that stormy daniels is an opportunist has made a lot of money off of this alleged encounter with donald trump. also had an insinuation that cheap not to send insinuation accusation that she made the whole thing up, that

it never happened, and that was interesting. there was evidenced she introduced of the make america horny again and tore that. she went on. and the fact that she has profited and now, when the prosecution came back on redirect stormy daniels was asked was on the hole, was it net positive or net negative for you? she said it was a net negative, but i thought that was that was interesting stormy daniels conducted herself. she was very precise. she would occasionally costs call ms nicholas ma'am ms nicholas would did you not say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. and stormy daniels would say, you're going to have to show me where i said that. and actually one time for instance i'm sorry to use this language and this is where we are as a country, but okay, one time stormy daniel's made a reference to flushing the orange turd that was a tweet that she did and what the

defense attorney had extrapolated was that stormy daniels was saying she was i'm paraphrasing here, but integral to sending donald trump to jail. and is it and that what she meant when she referred to flushing the orange turd and it was that kind of thing. we're stormy ends with stormy daniels would say, i know i did and say integral. i didn't say jail. i just said flushing the orange turd and that was the kind of back-and-forth the jury was paying attention throughout. i think there were a little less alert during the testimony from the woman who handled fedex thing for the trump organization but they were definitely paying a lot of attention. >> you couldn't see really any reaction in terms of like tutoring or anything like that with some like the stormy daniels impeach meant candle or whatever that was called indictment candle nobody everybody in the jury box seem to be taking it very seriously it's so you have to think when you're watching in this jake,

it's playing out on multiple tracks. >> of course, there's the legal which this is a criminal case. this is so important and it's fraught for former president trump. there's also the political, and we've seen how he plays that, but there's also the emotion all right, just how he responds emotionally to what he's been hearing from stormy daniels and i wonder if compared to what you saw the questioning on cross-examination nation, or what you heard of it, our colleagues reporting an on tuesday, if you think that there was a change in tone today? day compared to tuesday that may have reflected some of his reaction to how she what she said on tuesday well, i mean, i don't know where they were headed before and i wasn't in the courtroom on tuesday. >> so it's difficult to me for me to make a complete answer a comparison, but i will say they definitely were driving at to the extent that they were allowed to within the

parameters set by the judge, they were definitely driving at the defense attorney the accusation that she made the whole thing up that donald trump was just one celebrity of many at this golf tournament in taught in tahoe. and that none of it happened. and she's still just been trying to make money. they pointed out that some are for story had changed from interview to interview. whether it was vogue or in touch, or anderson or whatever on race redirect, the prosecution would say would point out ways in which it wasn't as stark those differences as the defense attorneys were making it seem. >> but i certainly thought the defense attorneys were effective. >> i don't think that they made their case that this didn't happen but i certainly think they made their case that the stories since 2006 as i don't think would be strange for

anybody telling any story has gone through through different permutations, especially as different news organizations have told it in their ways, how important is this next witness who we're going to hear more from after the lunch break, rebecca mano akio, who is the former bookkeeper, current trump org employee, because she's a bit of a link when it comes let's to the fact that this is a falsifying records case and there has to be linked to the former president for prosecution to succeed yeah, this woman is i think i've a cipher. >> i think she's an executive assistant at the trump organization. i think she made a comment along the lines of she was kind of discovered at a grocery store and then ended up working for the trump organization as a personal assistant and then work your way up to executive assistant and basically is in charge of fedex and things two different people and so she is the one because the trump organization i'm sorry, the trunk trump

legal team refuses to stipulate late anything. they will not stipulate that donald trump wrote these five books. they will not stipulate that donald trump is in the access hollywood video et cetera, et cetera. the prosecution has to then go and prove a whole bunch of things, including a check being sent or that's being sent to endorse or i'm being sent to sign. so we're going through this process. this young woman was there and again, it was she was giving she's there under subpoena she was basically giving where she could yes or no answers as i'm sure she was counseled to do and basically she is just established publishing that things were sent to washington, dc from her through the trump organization to washington, but specifically keith schiller, trump's former bodyguard, and then he became a white house official to his home address

for donald trump, presumably to sign a check for him to sign so she is providing some of the just logistical details about this, but like i said, i think the jury god bless him didn't seem as interested based on their eye contact that they were making with the witnesses are how much they seem to be looking down versus looking ahead. didn't seem as caught up in at all. >> yeah. understandable. and look, if the trump team did stipulate some things, this would be a shorter trial we should remember that as well as the former president it says it's keeping him off the campaign trail even as he doesn't use his break days to campaign. jake, thank you so much. obviously will be back with you here shortly. court is just minutes away from resuming ahead after a morning of contentious testimony, testy exchange is we're going to break down the biggest moments of stormy daniels on the stand in the donald trump hush money trial. so stay with brian gary

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ellie, take us through this data for all the salacious detail that the jury heard today on direct and then cross-examination really, the cross-examination comes down to three main themes. first of all donald trump's attorneys tried to establish that stormy daniels has bias. they came right out the very first thing they ask stormy daniel's am i correct that you hate president trump? she made no bones about her. she said yes, yes, i do. she said there's good reason, but the defense is establishing that she has bias. they also use some of her social media posts to sort of bring some life to that, including people can read it, but she calls donald trump the quote, orange turkey wants to flush them down the toilet speaks pretty viscerally, i think to the jury, the second main theme that the defense tried to establish to their cross-examination is stormy daniel's has made money off this. she has financial motives here and they gave us some specific examples. first of all, stormy daniels testified today on cross-examination. she made $800,000 for a book advance on her book called full disclosure. she of course, made the $130,000 in the hush money

payment and then $125,000 for a tv deal with nbc. and then the final point that donald trump's attorneys tried to bring out on cross-examination. is it stormy daniels has made prior inconsistent statements in conflict some extent, with her testimony in front of the jury to that to that end, they use prior statements that stormy daniels had given to various media outlets, including her interview with anderson cooper. now the discrepancies here we're fairly miner. did they order dinner? did they eat dinner? who made the initial introduction? donald trump himself or his bodyguard to me sort of picking at the margins the better argument i think about her prior inconsistent statements is this sign statement that stormy daniels swore signed in 2018 where she wrote, i am not denying this a fair because i was paid hush money i am denying this affair because it never happened. now, stormy daniels testified she only sign that because she felt pressured, but again, that goes to the third point of the cross-examination that she has made prior inconsistent statements bottom line, how did

daniel's relate to the charges here? >> yeah. so this was actually the last question that prosecutors, as that trump's defense team asked on cross-examination, they asked, what do you know about donald trump's business records, which is the charge here. she said, i know nothing about his business records. no. why would i i think the bigger picture here though, the prosecution called stormy daniels because they want to put a face on this case. they wanted to give the jury the specifics about the incident, the sex, and 2006 that really led to everything that follows the alleged sex. >> i think they're going to have a hard time. we should say elie, the defense, arguing that it didn't happen. i'm not sure where the jury is on that, but at this point, donald trump is so alleging it didn't happen so take us through this new witness, rebecca monarch, you and why her testimony is important? >> yes. so take a big, deep breath now we're all from stormy daniels and onto rebecca monocular. she worked within the trump organization. we've heard some of these other names. so allen weisselberg was the cfo. we're not going to hear from him at this trial. he's in prison. he wouldn't

testify. anyway, we heard earlier the jury heard earlier from jeffrey mcconney honey in the accounting department, and now rebecca nokia and what she is doing walked the jury through the process of getting these checks, cut& issued. so just to set the scene here, michael cohen pays off stormy daniels and then in the months that follow, michael cohen is reimbursed through a series of checks issued by the trump organization and ms i'm an okay. you is talking about how she was based here in new york at the trump tower. she would fedex the checks down to dc at this point, donald trump's the president. he's in the white house, and then they would get fedex back to her sometimes penitent 15 at a time, signed with that distinctive signature by donald trump's. so she's so it's showing the jury the exact chain of custody exactly how the he's reimbursements happened. >> all right. elie, thank you for taking us through all of that. court is set to resume here in a matter of minutes while more of our coverage ahead from here in washington and also from new york with jake tapper, who has spent this day in that courtroom and has

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who worked for the trump organization as a bookkeeper we're still working for the organization, will be returning to the stand for cross-examination earlier we heard from adult film star stormy daniels, who is the woman at the center of this criminal case. the defense spent more than three hours questioning daniels today, pressing her for gaps between what she said in the past and what she said this week under oath, jake that's right. >> i was in the courtroom this morning until lunch break, the stamp stormy daniels pushed back at times, appeared a touch combated touch combative. as trump's attorney tried to establish some of the ways stormy daniels says gained financially from going public with her story just before court broke for lunch. the defense raised issues with judge merchan, including a renewed motion for a mistrial. merchan said the court's going to review the matter is when the jury has dismissed later this afternoon with us now is cnn chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid, and

see cnn's chief domestic corresponding phil mattingly support. let me start with you and let's start with this this mystery woman that we don't even have a photograph of her rebecca mano kiyo before the break. she testified about how she handled trump's personal checks, how the process works why issue an important witness for the prosecution? she's they're under protest. she was she's giving one word answers. quite honestly. i know if i asked her if she doesn't seem exactly like anybody who came up with a hatch, that he's sort of scheme. she's the fedex or yes she is not believed to be engaged in the conspiracy, but there's it's just being called is because the defense refuses to stipulate the they refused even agree that yes, this is the way the check scott from the trump organization to the white house. >> once trump became president, that's an offense strategy, right? bogged the jurors down and boring tedious testimony, random witnesses so she is not going to make or break this case, but she is explaining to the jury how these checks went

again from the trump organization to the white house, as i understand of this testimony it's not even clear she is specifically testifying about the checks that eventually went to michael cohen just generally about the process, although there was a time that she said she did send a fedex to keep if shiller trump's former body guard, who was a white house official at the time, sent them to keith schiller's home address, which she acknowledged was not normal what else do you think that that was the prosecution establishing that what is the defense kinda try to do? >> i'm not sure how interested they're really going to be in her testimony. it's certainly not going to be what we saw this morning, but wait, a blockbuster morning with stormy daniels testimony about sort of sex and her career and all of this. and we expect that the next mark key witness will be michael cohen. but right now, the jury needs to eat their vegetables and hear about this sort of process because it is, it is helpful to the prosecution improving their case. but again, i don't think the defense is gonna want to do much with her. the checks went from point a to point b and fell on the stormy daniels defense repeatedly brought up

what she does for a living which is tick off her clothes for people. and there was a mention of the fact that her audience is now different. her fans are now different fewer middle aged white men, more gay couples, members of the resistance, the so-called resistance also a, they talked about how she makes a career out of makeup stories about sex, which they tried to suggest is what she was doing. but donald trump, how do you think this plays in front of a jury? >> i think what i have been fascinated with learning, what are reporters saw in the room. you were one of them, an extra plane to ask you about to flip the script a little bit. but it was such a different tote tuesday cross-examination was aggressive, right? there's no question about it, and they were clearly trying to frame her as trying to basically just do this for money. that was exactly why she was doing it. i was driving her entire narrative and way of thinking. this was so much more about what she did for a living. this was so much more about as you noted, her fans, that not only

she doing it for money, but what she's doing for money. and how does that make you feel jury, it seemed like how they approach actually was but there's also striking how stormy daniels responded throughout and, you kind of tweaked how it was combative. you said a little bit somewhat. like, yeah, because it's were rough but but i mean, she was insinuating that stormy daniels made it all up and it's just doing it for money but stormy but stormy daniels would just say things like, well, i know i have to make a living. everybody likes money. i have to have to sell my products. i mean, it was she was rather matter of fact about it did you feel like band again, we're just going by the transcript. >> what i reporters in the room were sending us, she seemed to be very quick to respond. the toward about what you raised in terms of making up stories about sex. i thought her response was for cloud bakish can't remember. i've taught my head was actually quite sharp but didn't seem like she got rattled at all. it didn't seem like during her initial testimony she was going very, very fast, seemed kind of all

over the place at some point, you seem to be very much focused and together, what was your son? >> yeah. i mean, i i think that the defense successfully portrayed her as a woman that seeks opportunities to make money not necessarily, but i don't know if they convince the jury that she therefore made it all up she didn't seem rattled. she had obviously been coached that if somebody says you said something and you don't know that you said it, asked to see the quote that happened at least two or three times. >> so i thought she was pretty well prepared. but again, i mean, luck i'm not comparing stormy daniels and donald trump, but they both have brands. they both look for opportunities to make money they both seek ways to have an edge in public life. and in that way, they were similar and they certainly portrayed her as that and she had no problem acknowledging that's who she is. >> real quick. the through line of their relationship to the extent that existed and

continued over a period of time for conversations, not more sexual sexual valences was an opportunity to make money. >> it was business, it was the apprentice dangling the apprenticeship possibility of being an apprentice. so i think that track and i think there was i think that that also was an opportunity that the defense took. which way? but she was obviously disappointed she wanted to be on the apprentice that never happens. you thought donald trump lied to her about that? we'll see how much more they play play up that idea that maybe this is vengeance or whatever for that. but that's certainly came out in cost today. paula reid and phil mattingly, nice talking to you, briana all right, jake, thank you so much. let's talk a little bit more now about this with our panelists. stormy daniels spent over six hours on the stand and i think one of the things i've noticed as we talked about this and it's interesting because there is almost a split of men and women on the jury is that male and female observers may be having

and by observers, i mean people who are reading what is happening because we can't actually see it, right? we're getting reports. >> but i think people are raising different questions and may be experiencing some of the testimony differently. >> and i wonder how that might play in to what the jury is crd. have you noticed that it's hard to say. >> i think it's interesting because the whole idea of this is that this is information, this kind of story is something they did not want public and they did not want male or female observers having this exact discussion in 2016. and so what was the motivation? yeah, the trump sayyed. so i think it's more like looking more at what we're talking about in that context, which is did we hear anything over the last couple of days that would speak to a motivation that's not a motivation that's not about the election. that's not about protecting a reputation that you feel like could be proactively harmed and advance of a campaign. this is not my

opinion, but sort of where this prosecution has put us in terms of trying to figure out what we're hearing. so when she's up there, it's not about judging her. >> right? hey, it's about like, oh, okay. she's saying something that seems so bad people, it's ramble around to try and fix it. and then going from there and the problem is she's been telling the story for a decade so there's lots of years to poke around and figure out where there are inconsistencies. >> well, i think there is a way to judge her in the sense that the defense is trying to say that she's an external just& that she just was trying to get this was her issue. >> but as the issue extortion or how you try to pay the extortionist this is the part where right now we're listening to accountants, right? it gets right. >> but but that the whole thing started because she wanted the money as opposed to the fact that donald trump wanted to give her money. so she would be quiet because of the campaign and so you have to decide how believable she is. and what her motivation was they portrayed

her as greedy and and crazy in a way and dishonest and all the rest but what came first, the chicken or the egg, right? i mean, who who wanted to cover it up first? was it michael cohen? saying, oh, we got to do this, or was it stormy saying, oh, this is a real opportunity here, i'm going to extort them for $130,000 and so the defense has to say, well, she's an extortionist and the prosecution has to sort of tie it all together and say that michael cohen did it because he was worried she was going to open her mouth about it. >> a brand, it's an important the gender question that you raise is really important one because we all, including jurors, attorneys, everybody brings their own one background, whatever you want to call it, biases feelings into it. one of the more powerful things that i read recently was a statement about

testimony that stormy daniels is given on tuesday saying every woman has had a what did i do to misread this situation moment, right? because the questioning was& the questioning, if it wasn't explicit, certainly opened the door to what were you doing in that room if you had a problem with with what was going on and she said, well, you know how did i misread this? >> shows vulnerability, doesn't it? and that and that she was a tough person on the stand, but she was also vulnerable hello, i'm blamed herself, but also just brianna's question. i think men and women probably hear that question and heard that line of testimony very different. >> i wonder though as his attorneys have spent so much time in the nitty-gritty of the particulars about the sexual encounter that he still says did not happen, but they seem very concerned about making sure that let's just be very clear that this was consensual, right. but but it didn't happen

in their minds or in their client's mind. so explains the paper bag you talk yourself out of. that so the cleaner way to have done this is just to confront stormy daniels with the sine statement that we just looked at on the wall in 2018 where she said none of this ever happened, you're not going to get stormy daniels to say oh yeah, you're right. >> i made it all up. that's just not going to happen. and i think the reason they're focused on the details of this, which is not what i would've done the last place i would want to take the jury if i was donald trump's lawyers is back to tahoe, back to that hotel room. but i think first of all, as we've had reporting here on cnn, they're trying to appease their clients, perhaps pulling political perhaps personal desires. the other thing is and this happens in a lot of trials. the further you can drag a case into the muck, the farther you can drag this case away from the actual charges in the indictment, almost always in yours to the defendants benefit, because anytime you have the jury going, why are we getting into what did they eat? who was wearing what? pajamas?

this is a falsification of business records of the case were five steps away from it, even if the defense is dragged, that they're usually that's good for the defense. you want the jury going. >> where are arguably it was born there, so it's sort of hard to meet anything. i think the falsifying business records is elevated it from what a lot that people have longtime perceived as something that's fundamentally tabloid and kind of yucky. >> but another common dynamic is prosecutors always want to keep it neat, clean to the point. and defense lawyers often try to mock it up. that is a tried and true strategy that not often but sometimes succeeds it before lunch, the defense is raising three new issues. we should mention. there's a renewed motion for mistrial. there's a motion to preclude testimony from karen mcdougal and there is an issue related to the gag order the judge has the issue's going to be taken up after the jury leaves at the end of the day. can you just explain to us a little bit what's happening here and what you may be expecting as well. >> we'll see what the, what

the basis for the miss trial is. it's important for the defense to keep raising motion for mistrial so that they can preserve the right to do so if they lose the loses on the basis of which they may, we could be putting on the basis of anything he could be on the basis of could be on the basis of witness testimony questioning that the prosecutors went too far on. it could be a witness that's called. so for instance, if karen mcdougal is called, i'll get to that in a second. they could say that that was so prejudicial that it shouldn't have ever come up in the first place. my guess is that in the fight over karen mcdougal is it's related conduct to what happened with stormy daniels, but not the same conduct. and there's this concept of prejudicial testimony that when you bring in past acts of an individual that aren't the thing that he's charged with right here. it can be something that tastes the trial and gives the defendant and unfair trial and it's something that the defense ought to raise. it's important for them to raise it. as i said, to put it on the record so that they can bring it up on appeal later. all right? you're looking for that, everyone. thank you so much. if you can stand by for me, testimony is set to resume here any minute is a trump

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just moments away from beginning again, a few minutes go donald trump walked back into the courtroom. trump's defense team today repeatedly attacking the credibility of porn star and directors stormy daniel's in cross-examination especially by targeting her work in the adult film industry and how she has profited from this encounter with mr. trump allegedly alleged encounter she'd say one exchange between trump's attorney and stormy daniels went like this. susan nechele, less trump's attorney says, you have a lot of experience of making phony stories about sex appear to be real and stormy daniels responded, wow, that's not how i would put it. the sex and the film's is very much real just like what happened to me in that room. the sex is real. that's why it's pornography on quote, kristen holmes is with me now, kristen, you're the one who broke the story that trump's attorney change their strategy and decided to cross-examine stormy daniels longer than they had intended to and to perhaps be more

aggressive did they succeed? >> one told by people close to the former president that they think that they did, that susan necklace set out to be aggressive to really pin down stormy daniels and that they feel as though she didn't obviously, as we saw, you were in the room, but as i read through the transcript, there were times when okay. girls couldn't even get an answer out. the judge actually had to intervene. that was susan necklace being that aggressive bulldog that donald trump wants her to be. now it wasn't just about the fact that they wanted to go more into stormy daniels, but they were also trying to poke holes in. the story as we per kara scannell, say, that you often the defense will wait until that what they actually here during the prosecution's testimony, you're questioning and then try to reframe their questioning and that's really what they were trying to do here. you saw susan necklace over and over again saying exactly what stormy daniels had said in her testimony, the prosecution and then looking back at old interviews, looking back at old articles at old speaking engagements, everything that she had said in

the past, trying to undermine her story here now, of course, the big question is going to be how donald trump reacts, but we do know that one of the things that donald trump has been frustrated with when it comes comes to his lawyers in this case. he wants them to be more aggressive to be that kind of attack dog that pitbull and talking to people close to them who are following along very closely. they felt as though she was today well, she certainly was i will say that one of the things i saw from being in court was susan nechele is at one point said the stormy daniels had had said that she was going to be integral to sending trump to jail and stormy daniels, who'd obviously prepared to challenge the defense attorneys when they said that she had said things that she didn't remember saying said, where did i say that? >> can you show me where i said that? when she brought up a tweet were stormy daniels were a fan of trump, referred to as fermi daniels as a human toilet. and she said something along the lines of that's why you need me to flush down the

orange turd i'm just quoting court testimony today and i mean that and she said, i don't see the word integral, i don't see the word jail this is a necklace was taking some liberties i don't know if that might have cost to the necklace with the jury, but it's the risk when you're going so aggressively after somebody and also focused also on some client service, donald trump wanted her to be aggressive. >> yeah. look, i think that that's going to be the ultimate issue here is what the jury actually took away from this. you know, if she's trying to please trump if she tried to be an attack dog, if she's tried to poke holes in the credibility of stormy daniels, really only matters what the jury took away from that. and it's just not going to be clear, obviously until we get some kind of verdict here. but if the goal was to try and undermine her as a witness and poke holes that she was doing what she set out to do. and again, i don't know and i think none of us know how this plays inside the room we have heard the details win over when

we were reading the details, the way that we felt not we weren't in the room. how did people in the jury actually reacted? so in terms of the cross-examination, if what she was trying to get out of this was to try to poke holes in the story and please her client. i am told by the people around him, they think that she did a good job. but again, right. but again, at the end of the de is going to be how does the jury react? what do they think of that cost? >> i don't look i don't think i don't think they i don't think it's the 2s and nicholas crossed the line being in the room and watching the jurors. i don't think she crossed the line in terms of seeming as though she was cruel or bullying to stormy daniels. but i do think that there is a when you introduce, for example, one of the things that the prosecutor hoffinger brought up was that there was a text exchange between stormy daniels, former attorney, and dylan howard, the editor of the national enquirer, in which dylan had said something like, oh, i thought she i thought she i thought she said that didn't happen and she didn't read the next remark, which hoffinger two days later did, which is

like something along the lines of no, she never did that. and i think there is a credibility issue for a defense attorney if they're trying to defend their client and they're doing so in a way that actually makes them let's seem less than forthcoming. >> two things i want to address. first, the part about you saying not crossing a line, there is a reason that they've chosen who's a necklace to cross-examine? stormy daniels instead of one of the men, i think one of the most telling parts to me was in that cross-examination yesterday or tuesday when she kind of stepped in when stormy gemmules was laughing and saying, is this funny to you? now if a man had said that during cross-examination, it might have come off as more aggressive than having a woman do that and that's part of why you choose who you could choose to do cross-examination. that was very clear in this line as well. now, again in terms of whether or not she cross leinz are pushed boundaries, i did speak to one attorney who said it would have been negligent for her to not go after her story in various ways. she had to go through she had to go through all of those old interviews all of those old transcripts, and even this

attorney said the same thing, which is did she do her job for a client? yes, probably. how does it actually play with the jury that we just don't know? >> well, it's just i mean, i think the jury's that jurors always appreciate they want to they want to feel like the lawyers are straight shooters even though they're obviously advocates. thanks so much. i'm told i got to take a break. we should note that the cross-examination of the woman who had been fedex and checks to washington, dc on behalf of the trump organization has ended. prosecutors are about to call their next witness where we need to see what's going to be our special coverage continues right after we squeeze in this quick break sunday on the whole story. >> the debate over transgender athletes, i believed they needed to sacrifice being trans in order to swim. we can't neglect fairness and hopes to be inclusive. >> the whole story with anderson cooper sunday at eight on cnn you've built something people want. now they want more of it this to credit helps you get the funds you need make sure your inventory is buttoned up this to credit funding.

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consultation. again, that's one more than liebermann at the pentagon and we're back with our breaking news coverage of donald trump's criminal hush money trial, adult film actress and director stormy daniels testified for more than six hours over two days, tuesday and today i was inside the courtroom for this morning's riveting testimony as attorneys, did the cross examination of her than the redirect, than the crop us and then the redirect i've daniels, joining me to discuss his former federal judge, ajahn e. jones, the third judge jones, thanks for joining. i want to start with stormy daniels she was at times explicit she was a times crossing the line or at least the prosecution ones was in terms of details because at least tuesday that was a thought. how do you think, judge merchan is handling the proceedings i think he's doing really well. >> jake it's a tough go for

the trial judge in a situation like this, and what sometimes folks don't realize it's not just responding to lawyer's objections, but the prison citing judge, has the responsibility to protect the record and to prevent prejudice if they can in a case and it's pretty evident that on a couple of occasions she added or shone on his own initiative, decided that he was going to shut down certain areas that he thought were just a field of what was fair and fair game and the yeah in terms of the interrogation of the witness something interesting that happened this morning before the jury came in the defense team made it clear that they want wanted to bring up the fact that stormy daniels had been arrested, something having to do with her ex husband. judge masan said absolutely not. anybody can be arrested. the question is whether now she's been convicted of a crime and she hasn't and then later in the testimony, when the defense attorneys, susan nicholas, was

asking stormy daniels about her time as a medium, conjuring fourth, ghosts and speaking to people's love dead loved ones she seemed to try to re-introduce that arrest again no conviction and judge, merchan shut it down quickly. but what is the purpose of that? is the purpose of that to show it to the jury. anyway, said that they see it see a little lag there and they wonder how there might be stuff there that we don't know about. why do that, why so blatantly violate what the judge said earlier in the de you know it's interesting, jake, because what some advocates do is they ask questions that they know or objectionable and then what that sometimes triggers is the judge saying, well, i'm going to instruct a jury to disregard that. they'll sustained an objection. but of course, i always wondered when i was on the bench, you know, what, you really hang a lantern on it. so jury, even though you tell me,

disregard it, they just heard the question. the implication of the question. it's pretty tricky by advocates to do it, but essentially what she's trying to do that is there's a necklace is to get in bad acts and to get an a bad act for witness, it has to be something that involves fall so that somehow implicates or damages the witnesses credibility. than arrest of that nature wouldn't do it. so nicholas is walking up to the line. i also think that there's a performative aspect to what nicholas was doing today. it's pretty clear to me. i would think that she knows she stayed in too long probably in the cross-examinati on. but remember her client is telling her he wants this witness dust it up pretty well, and i wonder how much of that was pushed by the client and how much was the lawyer? here's judgment there was another time and i know susan nicholas is under pressure from her client to be aggressive against stormy daniels, and

certainly undermining stormy daniels credibility is an important part of the defense, but there was a time that she characterized stormy daniels is having said something that she did not say. >> she said you said it's something along the lines of being integral to donald trump going to jail. >> and what it was was accrued response to a tweet. >> somebody called her human toilet and stormy daniels said that's why in the perfect one, two flush the orange turd or something like that does that under an attorney does it undermine an attorney to be caught missing? it's representing saying you said this and like what she said was gross and obviously objectionable, but it wasn't what she said. it was not only does it undermine the attorney that time so low, it just gets wearing i think for the jury, remember the jury's trying to follow this and after a while, if it devolves into school yard epithets, it's not really very useful to the jury as the presiding judge. >> and i think judge merchan,

we don't know what happened at sidebar, but he may have done this. i would be prone to call the lawyers decide bar and say, look, you're too long in this witness and cross-examination i would say sometimes look, i got the best seat in the house. i can see the jury. i can see that their attention is waning. you're getting hurt here. i'm going to recommend you get out of this witness you're just in it too long at this point. this thing is deteriorating and you should stop whether judge russia did that item. no, but that's what i would be prone to do if that kind of nonsense start to emanate because that's not probative of anything. it doesn't really help the case yeah. >> i'm not sure. we'll find out when they released the official transcript. objects later, we weren't allowed to we weren't privy to the multiple times and he called the seven or eight lawyers to the bench for approach. it was at least half a dozen times he did judge john, judge john jones. thank you so much

appreciate it. we have a new witness on the stand right now. her name is tracy menzies. she's a senior vice president of production and creative operations for harper collins. that's a publishing company. she's a copy of trump's book. think big. make it happen in business and life on the stand with her, the product execution is questioning her right now. we're gonna have more updates after this trump hush money trial, gavel to gavel coverage, the weight only cnn can bring it to you. >> legal insight, expert analysis and real-time updates live from the courtroom follow the facts, follow the testimony, follows cnn's let's. house is a family of brands with a hotel for any traveler you want to be like a craft cocktail kind of sewer at the cambria hotel bar or mr. tackled the inbox room service time at a radish than hotel book directed choice hotels.com effervescence appear harvest smart farms in abu dhabi. this a technology enabled agribusiness solving global challenges? we're taking proven

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criminal trial. the defense is starting its cross-examination of its newest witness. actually, they just finished. that's how quickly it went. her name is tracy menzies. she's an svp at harper collins and she was there we're really just to testify to the validity of a book or an excerpt in particular, from a book called think big. let's talk to our panel about this. it's extra bit about loyalty, which i want to talk about here in a moment. but first, let's zoom out. i think it's time for one of those as we are here nearing the end of week for of this trial. and tell us how close the prosecution has come to what they actually need to prove in. remember, what is a falsifying documents? >> trial? >> so i think the prosecution is much of the way to where they need to be, but not all the way there. let's go through what they have for sure. there is no question that michael cohen paid $130,000 to stormy daniel's for hush money to silence her there is to me a little question that a

substantial part of the motivation there was the campaign in 2016 presidential campaign? yes, they're probably were other motivations as well. family, but it's quite clear that the campaign was a major motivation it is absolutely clear that michael cohen was reimbursed $420,000 over the course of about a year. donald trump signed some, but not all of those reimbursement checks. the big question though, is a why was it set up this way? was it set up this way to try to disguise the fact that it was hush money payments. michael cohen, shirley will testify to that and we've had some i think, pretty convincing testimony to that effect. and then really the heart of the matter is did donald trump know was he in on the idea of, let's try to make these payments, the reimbursements to michael cohen look like legal fees. so we can disguise the fact that we're really trying to pay stormy daniels to keep her quiet before the election. and michael cohen is really the one who's going to have to bridge that gap. they've narrowed the gap, i think substantially, but it is going to ride on michael cohen. >> i think they've established that there was awareness of the

2016 campaign on the part of the national enquirer, on the part of any number of individuals in the trump organization, things like testimony from david pecker, there was no doubt that we were in support of and the president trump had or that i would be the eyes and ears for the campaign. there was clearly awareness of it. now this idea of a specific nexus between the former president and telling people or directing people beyond insinuation to falsify these records for the purpose of benefiting the campaign. as a matter of common sense, maybe it's sort of as ellie was talking about a moment ago, perhaps people can get their in their minds, but in terms of establishing it beyond a reasonable not yet. now, again, it is always worth recognizing. there's i think two weeks of testimony remaining and one major witness. i do want to say the cross-examination of tracy menzies from harper collins is over she had testified about this excerpt having to do with loyalty trump had lean forward at one point and looked at the

screen when blanche, his attorney asked to show the names of those who were thanked in his book. >> not exactly. sure. we're all that is going to, but one of the excerpts that menzies red here said, i just can't stomach disloyalty. i put the people who are loyal to me on a high pedestal and take care of them very well. another reading when you are wronged, go after those people because it is a good feeling. and because other people will see you doing it getting even is not always a personal thing. it's just part of doing business. i wonder what you think of this, that sound on trump. he always anybody who's worked with donald trump says and chris christie has said this out loud. he demands loyalty and he doesn't give it in return. but when he feels your disloyal, there's no end to what he will do. >> the prosecution calling madeline west or hout to the witness stand. this is going to be a continuation a bit of what we heard from rebecca mano

kiyo, who had been the employee from the trump organization, current employee, but at the time she was in charge of sending those checks and her contacted the white house as this agreement happened before the election, the payout happened, and then the reimbursement happened after the election while donald trump was president, he's in the white house and those checks we're going from new york, right? they were going down to dc $35,000 a month. is that right? every month to total that 400 you're $20,000 a month. okay. you had testified that she would send them down sometimes she would send them to the residences of different aids of donald trump's. but her contact was madeline west row. >> so this is the chain of command. the chain of custody. and this actually links up nicely with ms minogue. i was testimony earlier, you have the checks being cut in new york at trump tower, $35,000 a month made out to michael cohen labeled as attorneys fees or attorney retainer, which is sort of the heart of the crime here fedex down to the white house, metal and western health

and obtains the signatures and sent back up. it may seem dry, but the prosecution has to lay this out very clearly. this goes really to the heart of the crime, the knowledge issues are going to be on michael cohen. but the who, what, when, how was the payments made? that's what they're established shimmering. ask a question. no, i was under the impression the last couple of weeks that because the defense hadn't the word is stipulated. right. didn't they didn't agree to say yeah, there's some basic facts we all agree on it's allowed the prosecution to lay this very brick by brick road of the accounting. and what they're trying to do, i think in some ways here, the idea that the former president is very much in control of his money, possibly a micro-manager, right? so can you talk to me about how that stipulation then has worked for or against them in this process. >> so to be clear, the defendant in a case can stipulate to any piece of evidence coming and saying we don't contest it's reliability, bring it into court, and there would be a risk to the defense stuff get waiting to all of this because you can we can agree. this is a

check okay. this is a trek from the trump organization. this is a check from the trump organization with donald trump signature honore. can we stipulate to their down pairing fonts? sure. it just feels, but then that next question, what was the purpose of this? let's check. well, that could be a fact. you could also stipulate to. and i think the defense's strategy here was to go all the way far and not stipulate to any admission of anything and put what the prosecution do it now, you're absolutely right. >> flood the zone if you're a juror sitting there, do you start to feel like a wash of a just a ton of information and it's hard to know what's important. absolutely. because they spent 90 minutes or so last week introducing the $35,000 checks and at a certain point, some reporting from inside the courtroom suggested that jurors were glazing over a little bit because they're being made to watch prosecutors, not defense attorneys. going check by check. is this an accurate check? >> but i think is briana said earlier, it kind of strains credulity here that you're the president of the united states. you're getting fedex is of checks you need to sign and you

don't know what they're about we've been told as adi was saying that he's a micromanager, that he never signed a check without knowing what it was about. so it's also bizarre to me that these things were taking place in the white house. presidents are supposed to have blind trusts. and here he is signing business checks and the oval office but the question is, how did he not know where these monthly $35,000 checks we're going and why they were being issued. >> there's sorry. >> i was going to say let's get an a quick break if we can, because they're sort of establishing this witness here, madeline western hout, who obviously was in the white house, trump leaning forward with his hands on the table, looking toward her as she testifies she testified she been compelled to testify by subpoena and that her lawyer is taking the case pro bono. >> we'll be back with much more i consumer cellular.

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make your cash or and 5% apy joined today and get you burst 30 days for this is cnn the world's news as we are following developments from our team hi the courthouse behind us. >> we're donald trump's criminal hush money trial is happening, right this second i spent the morning up until lunch recess in the courtroom. in courtroom, what is at 59? watching on a stormy daniels testified for just over two hours. i'll phil mattingly and paula reid are back with me. you guys are smarter than me. so ask me anything you want to

know that i might have so stop that. i can give to you and you can make sense of what we wanted to know when we were here on set. is there were moments of that cross-examinati on that we're just farcical. for example, when they were talking about stormy daniels being held in paranormal activity, turned out to be a possum. what was the jury records? she's the one that acknowledged that it was a possum. >> i'm glad she cleared that he was the one that said it turned out to be a fossil. we were clutching our sides here. we couldn't even keep a straight face. was the jury finding any humor in this today seem confused, annoyed. well, i think it was it was during this one section chen, where susan nechele is trump's attorney was trying to make the make it clear that stormy daniels is an opportunist and will do anything for money. >> i think that was the suggestion she was making this woman will do anything for money. here's a stormy daniels indictment, candle here is a stormy daniels team, stormy hashtags deemed team stormy t-shirt. she takes off her clothes he makes pornographic movies, blah, blah, blah. you're even a median. what's this basically also like insinuating that you lie to

people and pretend that you can talk to their dead relatives. you prey on people. she said that's something like everybody knows, it's just entertainment. but i mean, that was what it was going on. also, i think it was a backdoor for her to try to the first susan necklace to try to introduce this thing that the judge may shine and told her that she could not introduce was a stormy daniels had been arrested, i think in new orleans, i believe i'm not really up on her life, but i think there were some she actually split with her husband and there was an arrest at some point and judge shine, before the jury got there, said you can introduce it. and i think it might have taken place in this new orleans seance paranormal house, and i think she was trying to introduce it that way. that might have also been part big day for stormy's merge catalog. i think at some level it has struck me when people like paul, i have come out of court, our colleagues have come out of court they talked about how it is just a very different experience than what we've been doing onset for the better part of the four weeks, what struck you are what surprised you being in the room? >> well, i mean, i guess just the disconnect between a this

is a former president of the united states in a criminal trial in manhattan. and it is may and he is the republican nominee presumptive republican nominee, and could well be the president. >> that importance and then the stuff the evidence that's being introduce her calling the president to the former president and orange turkey, that she needs to flash and just the seating is the sordidness, the smallness of a lot of this. i mean, this is about trying to hide information from voters in october 2016. but we've gotten into all these petty nonsense. in sickle tweets and such. it just the dichotomy between like, how stupid and small so much of the seams with the momentum disney's of any president being tried criminally. >> i think that's right. i remember thinking the same thing. the courtroom isn't very

nice. >> it's kinda dingy. what did you observe about trump's interactions with his lawyer? harris? because it felt like a lot of today was about client emotional managements he seemed look at i didn't have i don't have the seat that that? >> the jurors have or that the great courtroom sketch artists have. i was six rows back in the audience and all the way on the far side but from what i can tell, mr. trump was just staring straight ahead and he has a screen there so he could theoretically be looking at the screen and seeing the evidence or stormy daniels at one point, he leaned over, lean forward and looked, but he was not interacting with her at all and he would every now then i believe again, i didn't have you know, you can't really see i i think mr. beauvais was here. mr. blanche was here to susan nicholas was here. he would lean and say things here and there. >> but we didn't really get a big sense of anything in terms of hammond interacting. and have you shown your sketches

i've been inside. our work. >> i think we shall discuss it. so i brought my and i brought my ipad which has this adobe fresco things. so there's one that stormy daniels looking at. i think that might be the orange turd tweet. >> here's this. this is a combined four different drawings that i did which was is that stormy daniels early in the trial, there was a lot of looking at evidence, but go back to the one of the room just for one second, guys so there's the judge and their stormy daniels in there and susan necklace on the far right. and there's donald trump just kinda staring straight ahead. i have her arm arm wrong there. i knew she was doing something with her arm and the much better professional courtroom sketch artists, jane rosenberg and the other ones name is escaping me even though she's fantastic. if we could show their drawings, you'll see she actually was leaning back on the bar there christine cornell, as white christine

cornell they end whatever their work is so much much better than mine. but this is more cartoony. so that's not it. that's i don't think that's even today necessarily those again, these are these are from previous days anyway. so i was just on this because because you've been a few serving your praise of the professionals who were rosenberg, who i am, but not just today. i mean, like in general, but they really do great work, but it's very easy to judge from outside where we see the pictures. i still flash tom brady's the sketch from some quarters thing that was just ready looks like to me to me, that's the through tom brady, but that's just won the super eagles fan like it's interpretive, write, these aren't facts, these aren't photographs. even photographs can be manipulated, but this is an artist's interpretation of a moment which is a look. as journalists, i'm sure we all agree it'd be great to have cameras and microphones in the courtroom so everybody can see what's going on. but christine cornell and jane rosenburg do it really? great job of offering their interpretation

of what they are witnessing and moments they are witnessing. that's from today. that's christine cornell. and you see her arm necklaces, arms. going back there anyway, i'm gonna be back on the lead at 4:00 p.m. eastern are covers continues next hour with phil and paula here in manhattan right outside the courthouse. briana keeler at her purchase do you see be back after this quick break i went to experience i trust them on my phone. >> they showed me subscriptions. i'm painting four, even the ones i don't i don't remember then any i don't want experienced cancers from forming easy seal. you can do it experian.com slash safe today at america's beverage companies are models might still look the same, but they can be remade& a whole new way thanks to you. we're getting bottles back we've developed a way to make new ones from 100% recycled plastic, new bottles made using no new plastic. >> you'll be seeing more of these bottles in more places. >> and when we get more of them

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support more victories for veterans. >> go to de av.org i'm elizabeth wagmeister in los angeles in this is cnn closed captioning is brought to you by sokoloff law mesothelioma victims call now 30 billion in trust money has been set aside. >> you may be entitled to a portion of that money. all when 8085920400. that's when 8085920400 welcome back to our special coverage or former president trump's hush money trial. >> i'm briana keeler in washington, phil mattingly is outside of court in new york

work and right now, trump's former personal assistant at the white house, madeline west or hout is on the witness stand. she was one of the chief gatekeepers for trump and her desk was located directly the outside of the oval office before that, we heard from a bookkeeper for the trump organization testifying about how she handled trump's personal checks, how she would mail them the trump to be signed while he was in the white house. she also confirmed her understanding that trump is the only person who can sign his personal checks. we also heard from an svp at harper college collins testifying basically just to the validity of a book that trump had written and specifically a passage about loyalty fill yeah, that's right. >> brown of the day started of course, with adult film actress stormy daniels taking the stand for the second day, she held her ground, pushed back as trump's defense attacked her credibility, her motivation, but some points good to be her line of work as well. i'm here, the cnn chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid, seen a national correspondent, kristen holmes, for someone

with you basically, what's happening right now? we've kind of connected the dots through people that maybe people who are watching might not know, right? you have the controller, you had the senior bookkeeper, the junior bookkeeper from the white house, sayyed hope hicks earlier on i'm probably familiar with her mental the west or how was as close as you could get to the former president in the white house while she was there, both literally. and i think on a personal basis before she departed what does she bring? >> yeah. so i think what they're trying to get out here is what actually happened once those checks arrived in washington. what did it look like when donald trump was signing them? because madeline was someone who would have been in the room. i mean, she was considered essential at the trump white house, one of the things that was so interesting about her is that at any other white house system of that level would be considered that are more of a secretary when it came to trump's white house and madeline western out, she was kind of a gatekeeper for the former president. i mean, as we've said before, donald trump didn't text. he didn't make his own phone calls. he didn't email. if someone was

trying to get a hold of the former president, they went to somebody who was very close to him, literally in proximity as well. and madeline was one of those people. now, she was at the white house for two-and-a-half years. she left under not great circumstances. you revealed in details about the trump children off the record dinner with reporters which led to her leaving but i am told that there's still a big fondness between the two of them. i think that was clear just the beginning of the test it's monday when she describes trump offering her a job in the white house and how excited that she was. what she does is she fixes that piece of the puzzle. we now know what the checks look like when they were being cut, when they are being sent, what they look like when they came back with his signature on them, what happened in the in-between period, we really haven't her we've already tried we've already seen the defense tried to pick apart that timeline. both of the trump organization and in the white house saying it was chaotic. now, you have someone who was actually truly there in that time frame, who is very close to the former

president and also doing this kind of administrative work. >> why is this critical? if you're the prosecution, why are you calling me? we've talked about some people who didn't call it because there hasn't been stipulation, right. you've had the person from the publisher come in because you want to bring in some quotes from the book, you have some of these individuals come in because you want to have some emails or the receipts from the fedex overnight priority? always coming in. >> why is lester how necessary to as christian was laying out, put the pieces together. so first of all, she's the eyes and ears, so she's likely going to talk about whether she saw people like david pecker, like michael cohen coming in and then out of the oval office. she's also probably going to talk about those checks, right? they were talking earlier the person who sent the check said that she would communicate with battle and that was one of her her touch points and getting those let's to the white house. she's also testified though about the impact of the access hollywood tape, and that is key because in the timeline there are two key events in and around this original hush money payment. the access hollywood tape comes out suddenly trump's candidacy is in doubt and you just have a few weeks before election day and it's the access hollywood tape that

suddenly makes stormy daniels story worth $130,000 and puts enormous pressure on then candidate trump and michael cohen just suppress that story concerned about any story about illicit sexual activity. so she's also been able to testify to the impact that that had on the rnc in to that point and important point is bound on what's house at the rnc when that tape came out, reince priebus, who was the chair she was working very closely with kate walsh, who is one of his top advisers at that time. >> she was there for all that. remember our france, he was kind of running the campaign on some level because there wasn't really a normal trump apparatus when that all came out, you mentioned an interesting point. she's never flipped or attacked trump in any way. she wrote a book kind of about how she left the white house on rather bad terms, where she doesn't say a bad thing about the former president at all when you talk to trump officials, terms of witnesses are concerned about verse witnesses feel totally comfortable with where does she land? >> i would say that they feel comfortable with her in the sense that they don't think there's any animosity there. >> it's not one of these witnesses who is out with an ax

to grind, but also they are very much aware that she saw every single thing. i mean, look, shoot one of the things that she's testifying to right now, she's talking about how donald trump did not have email. he did not have for any phone that he used on a regular basis meaning that sure. we're going to get here that she was often the one doing the communicating on his behalf. these are the people who had different white house would not have had that same kind of access level that they had an trump white house. >> they were literally arranging calls with foreign dignitaries. >> i'm not saying that about modern western out in particular, but these kind of low level employees were doing these enormous job that would consider enormous in any other white house. what we're getting at here and the reason why she would be a concern starting witness is just the fact that she is the one who saw everything was arranging. everything was probably on the line are in the room when he was having some of these phone conversations? yeah. we're just seeing right now, she's testifying if you prefer to sign things himself, other people have talked about that as well from the trump organization, the analog here. she's the rhona graff of the white house was trained by rhona graff in the white house

as well. and i don't know that the foreign dignitaries idea is that far off. she connected him with chairs to time is very interesting arrangement aren't paul christian stay with us? we got a lot more to get to briana. >> yeah. and she's testifying now feel to the fact that he liked to use sharpies, which of course we all know if we've seen how he signs things or how he writes. he likes to use sharpies. we've heard other winning this is testify to that as well. let's talk to our panel now about this witness. in particular, she is key, madeline western out. phil mentioned that book that she'd written. i dare say it is fawning. she describes donald trump is a father figure and that she said she didn't hope she didn't want to be too presumptuous, but she thought that maybe he thought of her as another daughter and yett here she is possibly providing an important link. as she says, he did, yes, he posted tweets himself. she notes and she said the dance convener had access to as twitter her account. >> look at the very beginning of the administration when the it was going from the trump organization to the trump white house, a lot of things were

going on in terms of setting up this oval office. she was as physically close to the oval office to the resolute desk as any employee she was very close to him, should work for the rnc beforehand. and she was part of the work-family, not part of the personal family, but part of the work family. she got fired in august of of 20 2018 excuse me, 2018 because of some comments she made about the president's family, but she apologized to the president and he ended up promoting her book. so the reality is they still have a good relationship, but her point here in the trial on the witness stand is she provides a link to the trump organization. the checks said what was happening in trump tower and the white house. she was that link there. she was trained by a rhona graff is phil was saying, and that is her important to her, but she's a very friendly witness, just saying what you're saying, comparing that to hope hicks in terms of the relationship at this point, we're sort of describing it as a little more frost see with her having the

texts revealed about her comments around january 6, but you're describing of those two, right. who had similar roles? who's more? near to home? yeah. she was more sort of positioned at her office and i recall she was trying to become more like hope and travel and beyond the road and things, but she was not hopes, deputy, but sort of worked in that in that realm, but probably wanted to be more hope like and she testified that it was really the two of them sitting that closely, two former president trump. so i think it's important to look at this testimony maybe through that similar prison audi, but i wonder what you think is we're seeing this testimony. i just want to update for our viewers. >> this is a line of questioning from the prosecution here about how donald trump light to read things before he would sign them. >> in particular, they're talking about tweets and how on occasion she would actually take dictation from donald trump on a tweet and then she

would type it up to show it to him. it sort of speaks to that micromanager i guess, approach. he takes that other witnesses says hit have talked or one is where the prosecution is trying to lead the meli. i'd love for you to jump in here as well, but i joked earlier about fonts and now we're talking about the oxford comma. but there is an actual point to this, which is to say he was always involved if his name was on it, comma oxford. comma oxford comma. it there for defies reason to suggest that he would have made a $35,000 payment or series of them and not have known what the purpose of the payment meant was now, like we'd said, a little bit earlier in the program, have they established a direct link with this evidence know, however, what they are crafting is this idea of a principal at the top of the organization who knew everything that was it's going on, ran his affairs like a small business and would've known where these checks were being written because earlier you had a bookkeeper testifying to the fact that she would send

personal checks, blink for donald trump to sign. they come back in a sharpie west are held st yes. uses a sharp b. we know he uses a sharpie and that he or she is testifying that he would read things that invoice was still attached to the check when it went back, there's this picture being in created of how much donald trump knows. is it enough though at this point it helps. it's not enough on its own. i see this witness battle the western house is sort of a sampler pack. i see i see for relevant points that they've elicited so far one, the chain of custody on those checks, as we talked about, the checks come down to the white house, she would get them signed, send it back to there was a quick mention of the access hollywood tape. she said when that tape drop, there was panic at least inside the rnc and that connects up with some of the earlier testimony we heard about why would they be incentivized? to pay stormy daniel's number three and i think this is the most important point. the attention to detail, right? the extent to which donald trump knew what these invoices were, four new what is checks were four would read them, would sign them with a sharpie that links up in a prior witness. i think maybe it

was mcconney or somebody said the same thing. he would use the sharpie to sign things and then four thing may be getting into the substance of some of his tweets now they're getting into how this process worked and this witnesses saying, well, i would he would say something to me. i would jot it down, then it would show him and he liked it as we know capitalize certain words and use all caps and that kind of thing. so maybe they're going to use her as a vehicle to introduce some of his tweets as well. we know that they do want to do that eventually. so sometimes you have a witness like this who isn't just sort of a one topic witness, but hitting on multiple levels, she noted that her lawyer is there pro bono it's important. we look at some of these witnesses and is donald trump pain for their lawyer? is he not and this witness comes after another one who spoke to a excerpt from a donald trump book on the issue of loyalty. very brief appearance by that harper collins svp. but i wonder what you thought about that appearance. well, i think the point is donald trump takes

care of people who take care of him and he lashes out at people who don't. >> and i think they want to use that to explain why some of the witness testimony was coming in the way it does. & basically, this is how he runs things and it can be really intimidating to turn on him in to that point. donald trump's organization does pay for some of the lawyers, some of the witnesses we've seen so far, nothing illegal about that certainly makes it harder to come clean against somebody this witness has free representation. >> madeline western out really pulling back the curtain here about how things preceded their in the white house as she sat very close to the oval office and a former president trump, while he was there in the white house, we're going to continue to monitor her testimony. if you can just stay with us and we'll be right back with more on this so breaking news as we are covering the criminal trial, the first criminal trial of a president, the hush money trial of former president trump moscow pistorius was at the absolute peak of his celebrity

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infusion and also is bib gotten high, true? hello, for subcutaneous injection, additional side effects for viv guard high true love may include injection site reactions, talk to your neurologist about viv guard i'm pete muntean at reagan national airport. >> this is cnn we're back outside the manhattan courthouse. donald trump's criminal trial metal in western out former personal assistant to trump at the white house house is testifying on the stand right now. she's the third witness to take the stand since court resumed. blast our soon as call raid and kristen holmes are back with me now outside the courthouse give you a sense of who's testifying metal westrock just testified that her recollection was that donald trump really likes the oxford comma, at which point our reporters in the room say trump smiled a little bit. she has granular knowledge of get it the ins and outs of trump-world. i'm interested, paulo, because you can find this throughout every single day. we've not seen in the wake of stormy daniels, there has been a couple of players know some things, but are kind of the big names.

>> there's one big name outstanding. >> yeah. >> where's this going from here? >> pretty soon michael cohen will take the stand. it's unclear if they'll get to him morrow, we know they have a few more of these witnesses that are not household names that are either helping to bring in atmospherics confirms some sort of organizational structure or to get an evidence at the defense seen won't stipulate to few more of them. and then michael cohen is the last mark key name that we expect the prosecution to call, so he could come as soon as tomorrow. unclear the biggest name witness up to this point, i think you could say it was probably stormy daniels and it was pretty intense testimony over the period over the course of two days several hours when you talk to trump folks, how do they feel about how the cross-examination went and kind of what that lays the groundwork for with cohen coming up soon. >> well, today in particular, they thought it went pretty well. i'm talking to people around the former president who said that they would hope for from susan nechele, these are people who will talk to donald trump today after he gets out of court. they hoped that she was going to be very aggressive, which we know she was we know according to the

transcripts at times, the judge actually had to intervene and say you have to let her stormy daniels answer these questions. we wanted to pick apart her story. and as paul and i had reported originally, they were conversations among legal team legal advisors, but they were going and it keep it brief with stormy daniels because they didn't want to really dive into any of the salacious nature of any of this. but because the fact that she went into all this detail because of pack that she kinda walk this line in on consent. >> they had recalibrated how they were going to do some of the questioning to what pick apart to go through what she actually said on the stand and then go through these various it's interviews that she had given really back since i think 2011 was one of the first one's going through line by line and then also trying to build up donald trump's reputation while tearing stormy daniels down. >> now, if you talk to the people who are close to the former president, they feel like she did her job there on the stand that she was the aggressive that she did pick apart the story. >> but i think the question still remains a one thing that it's harder for us not being in the courtroom is how it was

interpreted by the jury. >> did it feel like at points she was ganging up on are are being too aggressive and one of the things we've talked about, this there's a reason they chose a woman to do the cross-examination the first day when she kind of questioned why stormy daniel's was laughing. part of that part of the discussion we had was decided very different coming out from a man to this woman on the stand. >> and so there's a lot of maneuvering in that sense, but yeah, right now, they feel good about where it landed and i think the fact that their clients not in jail shows that they're successful, right? >> there's the threat of jail hanging out there. if he violates this gag order. again, if he attacks with this it says like stormy daniels, we saw on tuesday, he was on the brink. he had his first courtroom outburst. >> he was admonished by the judge for audibly cursing during portions of her testimony before she even took the stand here, that truth social post that was up shortly and then his lawyers had it taken down so if they can sort of attacker, if they can make the points that he would make, if he could, that's enough catharsis, perhaps for their client that hopefully you can

still continue to stay on the right side of that gag orders. so i want to get more into this, but i do want to say that in the testimony there was just a contact list that was shown numbers redacted that rhona graff had sent to madeline western out the contexts included. you can see some names on the screen right now. you see serena williams in earlier i'll show, the contact list, sheriff david pecker serena williams, got naturally as one does work, keep watching as you see the names here, are emanuel david friedman, jerry falwell, sean hannity. it is everyone who's anyone to some degree, prosecutor west droughts specifically about pecker and cohen to the relevant names in the case. now, trying to i think draw the drop the direct line after laying out just how intimately involved she was in trump's world once it came down to the white house how much of the strategy that we've seen you guys are talking about. it's fascinating to me because how do you balance the legal between the client management? >> this is some of the best client management i've actually seen in any of the trump cases because we haven't seen any

courtroom outburst before tuesday and even after the judge admonished and they got him under control. now, of course, he is use ultimately in control of himself. but to lawyer for lawyers to control a client like this. that is an art ended it as a testament to todd blanche, the rest of that team that they have kept him so far for quite awhile, even before he was find from violating the gag order again, and also from having these courtroom outbursts that were routine, a daily occurrence during the civil trials. just a few months ago. so i think client management is a huge part of this assignment. and so far, given who they're dealing with and the circumstance they've done an okay job and don't trump is happy. he's happy with his lawyers like i was told, there are good days and there are bad days, but there are more good days and bad days right now. >> and does donald trump pick up the phone? so trump tower, when everybody leaves at night and call people and complain about todd blanche? absolutely. but is he going to fire todd blanche? and i could not find one person who thinks that's going to happen. he said that he wants him to be more aggressive. they wants them to participate more in going after

some of these witnesses, but everyone that i have talked to you says at the end of the day that he is actually much more appreciative of todd blanche than he has been of other lawyers in the past, and that they feel as though there is actually some symbiosis there, much as you can with donald trump as a client not saying it's all, butterflies and flowers. i think there's a lot of tense moments, but in terms of their relationship, i'm told that they believe this is as good as it can get if your dog or trump it's a criminal trial. it's going to be stressful. there's no there's no question about that. and del trump's gonna call people at the end of every day and say things because that's what trump does, right? paula, kristen, stay with me. we have heard from ford different witnesses today ahead. we're talking with the jury consultant about how that testimony maybe landing. but the jurors, as our special coverage with the former president's historic criminal trial continues stay with us every weekday morning. cnn's five things has what you need to get going with your day five essential stories of the morning in five minutes or

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trump's attorney. >> you have a lot of experience of making phony stories about sex appear to be real daniels responds, wow, that's not how i would put it. the sex and the film's is very much real, just like what happened to me in that room. she's referring to the room with donald trump. the sex is real. that's why it's pornography. and at another point, necklace seem to insinuate that daniels wouldn't feel upset by seeing a near naked trump because she is a porn star necklace saying you acted and had sex in over 204 movies daniels, 150 necklace nechele. but according to us, seen in a man sitting on a bed in a t-shirt and boxer shorts was so upsetting that you got lightheaded. the blood left your hands and feet and you almost fainted. joining me now is jury consultant leslie ellis and leslie, we're monitoring this this testimony right now from madeline western out, but certainly we are monitoring this testimony earlier from stormy daniels, were the defense was trying to discredit her, trying to basically say she was a porn star extortionist, picking

apart her past statements as well about this alleged sexual encounter. i wonder how different jurors might react to that interesting because you in any group of 12 people, you're going to have people from all different backgrounds opinions experiences, and those all color. >> and affect how people taken and weigh evidence and how much credibility they give it. so i think you're exactly right. they will be different reactions to that. i think a lot of people talk about whether men and women might see something differently. i think that's even too broad of a generalization. one thing we often see is that older women who might be for more quote, unquote traditional households might see evidence like that differently from young professional women again, a generalization, but that's sort of a differentiator that we sometimes see and how people

react to evidence like that. we also see generally people do like to see jurors, like to see participants in a trial treat each other with respect. they understand that there have got to be criticisms but they prefer those criticisms to be relevant and substantive. they do like to see participants treat each other nicely and respectfully and civilly. so i think back could also the tone of some of those questions, i think could have struck different jurors differently as well. >> that's a really interesting point. i do just want to let our viewers know that madeline west or how it is testifying to essentially the chain of custody of these checks among these checks, no doubt. and i think we'll come to in later testimony, the checks that were sent to michael cohen is reimbursement allegedly in this hush money payment so the jury, leslie was pretty engaged in watching the stormy daniels testimony, i guess not surprising. it was pretty

engaging, right. but less so according to our jake tapper, who is there in the courtroom when they were listening to testimony from the trunk trump org employee who had sent those reimbursement checks that i was talking about there from trump to michael cohen down to the white house to be signed by the then president. is that a problem? >> do you think? i always caution my own clients about not trying to conclude too much from taking notes or where they're looking or who they're looking at. but i think another thing that's important to to remember? it's difficult for us to understand the bigger picture and know what it is the prosecutors need to prove to put ourselves in the shoes of the jurors who don't know, right? the nature of the way these trials, any, any trial goes. they get preliminary instructions. but they don't get the substantive instructions until after they've heard all of the evidence. they don't get the rules of the game until the game is over they might not

know why that's relevant. what elements of which charge that evidence is relevant for? we know the judge knows the attorneys know, but they don't know. they might be wondering why am i hearing about checks? it's getting bad acts and who's signing what check-in for what purpose and if they can't figure out for themselves what this is important to they might think that i can sit back on this a bit. i also think they might be slightly exhausted after the stormy daniels testimony, right. as you said, that was pretty three salacious. these are some of the more mundane details they might just be thinking. okay, i can relax and just listen to this and not be quite as on the edge of their seats as they have been yesterday afternoon& this morning yeah. >> you never knew what was going to happen with that testimony. so certainly not surprising. they would feel that leslie ellis thank you. so prosecutors knew what was going to happen either i'm not sure

anyone knew exactly what was going to happen. they're lesly always great to have you. thank you so much. >> thank you prosecutors are now questioning madeline west or house, this former trump white house aide, a junior aid, and yet one who was very close to the president, basically his oval office gatekeeper. >> she's testifying about the way that trump handled checks that were sent to him from the trump organization? we'll have more from inside the courtroom. is this historic hush money trial continues you need new replacement windows, but you're just not sure of their in the budget this year, right? >> i'm brian gary here with ted koons from renewal by anderson& he's here to talk about how to make window replacement more affordable. >> well, first, brian, you don't have to do them all. you could just replace your worst windows first or another way to make them affordable is to change the style of window. for example, you could do a gliding window instead of a casement.

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connect the dots between how donald trump operated while president leading up to a february 2017 meeting between trump and michael cohen that prosecutors say is when reimbursement payments were actually worked it's really at the core of the allegations of the charges here. >> paul read and kristen holmes are back with me now, here in new york, pipa, we are hearing from madeline western out who's very close to the president, was involved in actually giving him the checks that were sent from new york related to the trump organization. why does this matter for prosecutors so this matters because you want to talk about the fact that she saw these checks going to the president since he was signing them and prosecutors who argue that in totality that clearly he knew what he was signing these because he was so detailed oriented that he knew everything that was going on in the trump organism stations, something multiple witnesses, have testified to, just how deepen weeds he was, but i want to point to the testimony of geoff mcconney. >> he's one of the trump organization officials who testified. he said that, yes, that was true. trump was incredibly detail-oriented until 2017, and he said, once

he went to the white house, things really change. not only were there procedures in terms of how cheques were signed, right. they had to get these fedex boxes. and also in terms of how deep in the weeds trump was suddenly he was the leader of the free world on defense. they're also going to argue that at this time they were really trying to wall off a lot of what was going on at the trump organization from the white house because there were so many concerns about how trump who's going to profit from being in the white house. i don't think this is a bulletproof thing just because he said in a couple of books and a few people observed him being very detailed oriented. we have to remember that jeff mcconney's testimony is that all that change in 2017 and he is critical because he is the one who testified about those notes from allen weisselberg, who allegedly was part of this conspiracy seeing weisselberg is not expected to testify because he's currently in rikers so you just want to put an asterisk even though she too has testified how detailed oriented he was. >> one of the key witnesses who said yes, that was true. >> true until 2017, which is the time of the alleged criminal conduct, which is interesting to point out, because the prosecution, t.h. put out a check or or some type

of evidence that's it showed that rhona graff had sent a note to trump about whether or not he needed to suspend his golf club membership and he'd responded in sharpie pay asap, which i respect. you want to let's go. nothing is clearly going to keep you using it, which seems like he's paying attention. he's obviously getting these checks. west trial testifying in terms of how that actually happens, there were always questions about the separate the wall that was put up between the business this the mcconney test was fascinating in that regard yeah. >> and mcconney that came out during the defense, that was when they really tried to pin down mcconney. okay. yes. said that he always wanted to his hands and things did things change after he won the election? yes, they did. was it more chaotic? he's a to say the least when he was really trying to paint a portrait of pure okay, i'll set some point. now, i assume what we're going to start seeing in the cross-examination of madeline is the other side of that, then asking her what was it like at the white house at that time? the defense asking was it chaotic in the white house? was there a lot of people coming in and out? was he sitting there

citing these checks meticulously or were there people in and out of the room? they're going to try to build all of what was happening around this. so chaotic that it would be impossible for him to be actually paying attention and knowing exactly what he was doing as he was trying to one, learn how to be president. because as we know former president did not know or think at that point he was going to end up being the president back in 2016 and that was what they were really focused on. now, of course, whether or not they can actually we paid that picture. we remains to be seen, but that's what they're trying to do here, is to create a different reality than the one of donald trump having his hand and every the thing meticulously going through line by line. >> well, the prosecution clearly driving it's saying another emails display between osterhout and graph, rhona graff about buying a picture frame for a family photo showing some evidence clearly trying to make the point that he was still deeply involved here, but they're driving towards the michael cohen issue right there. drive is as it done throughout with every single witness build the

foundation and then drive to that the point, what are they trying to prove with this witness? that unless drought on that front that michael cohen was meeting with trump during this time. but it's something that she testified to a short time ago. that she would have seen who is coming in and out of the oval office when of course, there was least one meeting inside the oval office that i've feeling they're going to really focus on. so right now the fact is that this case proving it beyond a reasonable doubt, a direct link between the defendant and falsifying business records in 2017 that will rest and the shoulders of michael cohen otherwise, there is no direct link. the only other direct link is allen weisselberg. he is in rikers, he is not expected to testify, so all of this leads up to michael cohen. he is without a doubt the most complicated witness in this case, and also the most consequential. >> and i think everybody very clearly understands that kristen paula. thank you, guys very much. again, a lot more to get to. we're going to keep hello and out of the new york courtroom as our special coverage of donald trump's hush money trial continues and the

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and spinning. take back control with lipo flavanoid every piece of evidence tells a story how would really happen? >> jesse l. martin, sunday's at nine on cnn all right we're back with cnn special coverage of former president trump's criminal hush, money trial after hours of heated testimony from adult film star stormy daniels. >> prosecutors are now questioning madeline western out. pardon me as i am looking to the ticker here to see what she is saying here. but as we for stand west or hout just got upset on the stand, she teared up and cried on the stand when she talked about how she had lost her job, she had really been providing a lot of context about how cheques were coming into the white house, how she was setting up meetings with president trump and michael cohen, not long after he began his presence didn't see, but then she was asked about how

she had lost her job in the white house after being very close to the president, even as a junior age, someone who is very much a gatekeeper, the judge, juan merchan handing western out a tissue. let's talk about this now with our panel. adi, this is this is reminiscent of the hope hicks testimony that we saw last week. >> it's a little different in that she her exit, write her departure from the white house was obviously far more jarring for her as a young person and you guys earlier alluded to this idea that she felt very fondly towards mr. trump and you're kind of seeing that in this moment, we're literally the judge has to hand her a tissue right in she at this moment. she also cried. i'm just refreshing my memory from reading our stories at the time when she called to apologize to the president at the time for making some hi in comments about his daughter, tiffany trump, ivanka trump during a summer outing and bedminster. so that was what she was

writing about at the time and she was supposed to be at this off the record dinner with reporters and she was talking about the president's family, but we see right there, president trump for gave you she said he did so this was she was young. she was a young rnc staffer i remember she worked in trump tower a. during the transition period and she was really got to know the president at that point, the president elect at that point. but this is the setup process, examination rights. what trump attorneys are walking into important to this though she testifies that he was in charge of or he had a handle on everything anything that had money-related to it, anything that was business-related, spending their money to the president knew about it and also talked about michael cohen coming into the whiteout. so setting up this idea of michael cohen being in the white house, really in the first weeks of the trump presidency back in february of 2017, she was getting the information to clear him in. yeah. she's saying here she didn't have anything negative to say about trump. we know that she wrote a book that was very much fawning

about trump. but here's is having a little bit of a sort of an emotional moment as she was asked about her departure from the white house we'd seen hope hicks had an emotional moment. is she was testifying to various things. she was a helpful witness when it came to president trump. it also unhelpful. in other regards let's as well. and here we see this moment. it's important. people are reduced to their names and titles and almost a punchlines, but it's easy to forget that witnesses are human beings and being in court is incredibly intense and sitting in that quiet, silent room we're you can literally hear a pin drop and every i and these intimidating jurors and a defendant used to work for are staring at you. i've seen witnesses breakdown before, even answering almost monday questions. it's very intense moment. and i think to jeff's point, you hit on all of the main reasons for her testimony here. she's establishing that february 2017 meeting with michael cohen, which i'm certain we will hear about in the days to come. this idea of

chain of custody of the checks, where they came in and where they went, and the link to the trump organization. and also the foreign presence attention to detail, which is something that prosecutors are going to use to establish that it defies reason this suggests that he would not have been aware of what the checks before. so even if she's not michael cohen or stormy daniels or one of these witnesses, that that's incredibly high profile. she she's sort of links together a few important point here in cross-examination, trump's lawyers asking about the access hollywood tape, which she'd been asked about, indirect madeline western out and notes, there was consternation about it at the rnc we'd heard that before in the direct examination. >> what stands out to you from this testimony well, how emotional it is quickly, it's become emotional reminder that she was relatively young personal when she was involved in all of this and also in general, i've been very curious about how trump's attorney has gone about with her cross-examination all of

these women at various stations of their life, how she is trying to again, not push it to a point where she's no longer sympathetic in the questioning, creating a scenario where you can get the information and you need or as la keeps pointing out, create doubt. >> fundamentally, if you want to prove someone has to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt, but someone else also has to point out where there is. >> this is an important moment because she's detailing how the rnc there was always some event that everybody said that's it. we're not going to when necklace said, yeah, west or how it says not president trump necklace followed up. no, western house says trying to establish this idea of what was trump really worried about following the access hollywood tape was he worried about his wife or his family finding out details? of what was being alleged, perhaps by stormy daniel or karen mcdougal or was he worried about the election? look and that is something that at that time i'm not sure that she was working in trump tower at that point or if she started in the transition, i know she

did start in the transition, but i thought interestingly, she also was asked about melania trump, talk about someone who's really not been mentioned in this trial at all. and she said something very interesting. she said there was no one else who could put him in his place, like her and when she came into the room, thinks lightened up and people laughed. so that is just a kind of an inside probably has very little to do with the trial but were also some that white house context of that relationship and it didn't sound like from what we're reading that it was she was the boss and a mean way. she describes them as having a positive and real relationship, talking about laughter, et cetera. so a lot of this will come out more in tone as we learn more from the transcripts. but during the day, like she she very much is being portrayed as somebody who was close physically, and therefore understood the atmosphere at that time. >> she said she said it was special when she saw them together. she felt that their relationship with special we have more to talk about ahead. everyone. thank you. you so much. will have much more of our special coverage after a

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now $30 billion in trust money has been set aside. >> you may be entitled to a portion of that money all when 8085920400. that's when 8085920400 back now to our special coverage, a former president trump's hush money trial. it has been a full day of testimony from several witnesses. the most heated exchanges coming after adult film actress stormy daniels took the stand for a second day. >> she sparred with trump's defense team over her credibility, her motivations, also her work in the adult film industry, daniels testimony was followed by that of a bookkeeper from the trump organization, rebecca mano qio testifying she sent trump's personal checks to the white house for him to sign, and it was her understanding that trump is the only person who could sign his personal checks finally, we heard from a former white house gatekeeper whose desk was just outside the oval office. during trump's presidency, madeline western out on the stand, continuing emotional moment here just ad

moments agas