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cardia.com or amazon who seizes a vital part of rafah what will it take for israel to end its operations against hamas? >> and what would a ceasefire mean for palestinians? last two former foreign ministers israel zippy livne, nasr. i'll kid war of the palestinian authority and xi jinping traveled to europe for the first time in five years to meet with the leaders of get

this france, serbia yeah. and hungary can china's drive a wedge between europe and america there are less than six months to go until election day in america. the historian robert kagan says this could be the country's last free and fair election hyperbole or fact-based fear i'll ask him but first here's my take. >> when president biden made clear he was going to run for reelection i had a sense of what his election strategy was and thought it was an intelligent path to victory after the chaos of covid and trump joe biden would stand for normalcy and a rising tide of good economic news donald trump would divide republicans with significant chunks of the party wishing that someone like nikki haley, ron desantis, would be their nominee? meanwhile, trump would unite and motivate democrats, allowing president biden the focus on the votes of

independence and swing states who threw the electoral college to trump in 2016 and to biden in 2020 i have to admit none of this is playing out as i thought it would. trump is now leading in almost all the swing states. but behind those numbers lie even more troubling details as someone worried about the prospects of a second trump term, i think is best to be honest about reality i understand that polls are not always accurate. but in general, they have tended to underestimate donald trump's support, not overestimate it i doubt that there are many shy biden voters in the country. >> the economy has been in a robust recovery for more than two years now with unemployment hitting a 54 year low in 2023 and increasing only slightly since then. >> but biden is getting little credit for it the shift here is stark on the question of whom voters trust more to deal with

the economy. trump has a 22 point lead over biden according to an nbc poll from january. this marks of 15 point bump for trump compared to the same poll in 2020 perhaps this is because inflation is a far more pervasive problem than unemployment affecting all americans every day perhaps it's because people's views on the economy now are largely derived from their broader attitudes towards the candidates but whatever the reasons it's a stunning reversal in the midst of a relentless stream of good economic news on cultural issues. biden and democrats benefit from the opposition to the republican party's position on abortion but on the other great cultural issue immigration biden is 35 points behind trump as to who would handle it better. and i do wonder whether abortion will be as large an issue in a presidential race, given that reversing roe v wade threw the issue to state governments and legislatures and not the federal government perhaps the

most worrying new trend for the democrats is that far from being the more unified party they are now bitterly divided over the war in gaza bernie sanders has said the eruption of pro-palestinian protests could be biden's vietnam and even invoked the specter of lyndon johnson choosing not to run for reelection in 1968 because of the opposition to that war. the analogy is farfetched. america then was itself sending hundreds of thousands of troops to vietnam with more being recruited from college campuses every week but there's no denying that the party seems more openly divided than it has been in decades only 33% of americans said they approved of biden's handling of the israel-hamas war, which is now opposed both by people who think he is too soft and people who think he is too hard on israel meanwhile republicans seem to be uniting behind trump

whatever opposition he faced in the primaries has largely melted away. and the trials against him keep him in the spotlight, infuriate his base who sees him as a martyr? and even may serve to make him the object of some sympathy among people in general who believed that his prosecutors are politically motivated this happens to be true in my opinion, i doubt the new york indictment would have been brought against a defendant whose name was not donald trump a majority of americans are skeptical that trump will be able to get a fair trial according to a cnn poll. and i haven't even mentioned robert f. kennedy jr. and cornell west and jill stein all of whom would probably take votes away from biden things could change polls do suggest that were trump to be convicted of a felony. it could shift votes in biden's favor. the administration may be able to pull off a ceasefire in gaza and then a broader political settlement that gives

palestinians political rights and israel diplomatic relations with saudi arabia trump could always embroil himself in some kind of scandal but trendlines are not working in biden's favor. he needs to do something bold and dramatic to seize the initiative on asylum policy, for example, and reverse these numbers the one that troubles me the most is on the question of who was the more competent joe biden lead donald trump by nine points in 2020 but trump now leads by 16 points in january 2024 that 25 point shift could be a reflection of people's sense that the president's age is affecting his capacity to govern there's very little that joe biden can do now to change that perception go to cnn.com slash opinions to read my column this week. and let's get started

the un said today that around 300,000 palestinians have been forced from the southern gazan city of rafah in the last week adding emphatically at a post on x, there is nowhere safe to go earlier this week, the israeli army sees the gazan side of the rafah crossing with egypt. >> and president biden threatened to halt weapons to israel if they launched an all out attack on the city so what are the prospects for a ceasefire and how do israelis feel about the current state of the assault on hamas? joining me now is zippy livne, who has served israel as foreign minister and vice prime minister welcomes it. be let me ask you to begin with the biden team says israel does not need to do a major ground incursion into rafah to secure its goals of destroying hamas bibi

netanyahu, and his cabinet disagree. who do you think is right? >> well, i'm not sitting now in the cabinet and i don't want to be no way balcony adviser to the israeli government, but it looks like there was not only majority, but all of the ministers decide that it is necessary but i believe that this is a matter of tactic, as long as we all agree about the goals of the war meaning eradication of hamas toppled the regime of hamas and release of the hostages so i do hope that these tactical questions will be solved between israel and president biden. and the most important thing that is missing right now is not the question of what these forces we do directly in rafah outside of of other cities in gaza. but the real question is, okay and

then what? what's the end game? who's going to be placed hamas in gaza because top of the resume is important, but you cannot just topple the regime without replacing it and this is a question which is in dispute between these valley government, between netanyahu and biden and i do believe that this is the master key for different issues that are now on the table let me ask you how you reacted when you saw some of the members of the israeli cabinet really mach, president biden one of them tweeted a line that was hamas loves biden. >> after the biden administration threatened a pause aid this is an administration joe biden's that has provided israel with massive amounts of support. the president came directly into

the war zone the united states has provided tens of billions of dollars worth of military aid to israel in this and the israeli government on this one, given this one, disagreement has pushed back or some members of the cabinet of pushback against biden very hard yeah i completely agree that the support that president biden showed since october 7 is impressive. >> it's not just showing empathy to the victims of these hurdles, but really so create a deterrence that prevented the total duration into original ball, the supply of weapon and listening to some of these early ministers, it's completely unacceptable now, it's not a secret. the time, a long time upon and prime minister netanyahu and i completely disagree and detest some of the ideology that this

minister represented. so they are a damaged, not only to these rarely us relationship, but it's damage to israel itself from different aspects. and this is only one of it you mentioned that the key issue is what replaces hamas. what do you think should replace hamas? people talk about the palestinian authority. people talk about some coalition of arab states like saudi arabia and egypt but who would provide security that seems to me the key there because saudi arabia is not going to want to have its troops be firing on palestinian insurgents well, it's clear that and i'm not also thinking about just drawing the keys to the other side of the fence hoping that some of that is not a terrorist organization will catch the key and everything will be fine. >> in a way we have the

experience of the disengagement from gaza will be left dismantle of the settlement, pulled out of forces and hamas took and therefore doesn't need to take it in terms of stages now, if we publish an add on tomorrow's paper, wanted the regime for gas. i don't see he many that will apply for the job. and therefore, since there are 2 million palestinians, there does an aid for palestinian new regime. and the only not perfect, but that can start doing it is to palestinian authority after reforms that the united states is working with them but yet, this is not enough and there is a game changer. and this is the bigger plan because doesn't it, of course, for assists for release of the hostages with a ceasefire during this time

hopefully, we can start working with the legitimate palestinian authority, which is not hamas and they are cooperating with these well on israel's security in the west bank. so this can be also a basis and giving legitimacy to israel to continue in acting against the whole within gaza until we have a regime that can act against, against table but the saudis are really a game changer because this can create not only a new reality in gaza, but a new security structure in the region, in the region and my criticism on the israeli government right now is that they are not willing to deal with what we call since they won the day after and the day after is here and now they're not willing to do so because some of these ministers are not just smoking the president or the united states, but also are

not willing to deal with this because for them, the palestinian authority is part of the problem and that daniels succeeded in portraying the palestinian authority as n hamas is the same. so it's, it's really a very complicated jigsaw and there's a need for the us to orchestrate all the different parts of it. but there's a neat also for israel to start talking about the who's going to replace hamas is other shame because otherwise, all the other option are worst israel doesn't want to occupy gaza maybe some of the myths that dual, but it's against our interests hamas cannot stay and we all agree not only in israel, but also we the that doesn't need to eradicate the regime and i need for cooperation with egypt on philadelphia corridor, the

border between gaza strip and egypt but there's a need to make this decision because otherwise, leaving a curls will bring hamas back and this is what we see in some parts of gaza strip, will the israeli forces already acted against hamas? they pulled out and now hamas is back. and this is something that we really cannot afford. and of course we need a civil civilian regime that will take care of the civilians from humanity today, i'm perspective very complicated, but i believe that it's doable and this can bring the change and turn this awful situation into maybe hopefully any opportunity zippy livne. >> thank you so much for that. very interesting and why remarks next on gps, i will ask the former palestinian authority foreign minister nasr, are kid while, but his vision for peace and what role

palestinians good play in gaza after the war fareed zakaria gps brought to you by fisher investments. >> clearly different money management we just want to have enough money for retirement and traveled to visit our grandchildren. >> i understand. >> that's what fisher investments we start by getting to know each other. >> so i can learn about your family lifestyle, goals and needs, allowing us to tailor your portfolio what about commission-based products? we don't sell those we're a fiduciary obligate attacked in your best interests. >> so honey management tastes work. >> we have a transparent fee structured, so we do better when you do better at fisher investments were clearly different listen up america meet has promised and it's going to take us mediators to solve someone wealth says too much. >> meat is bad and we should eat less of it. we say no world. we need more. >> because now we can turn

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distancing itself from israel on the issue of rafah and a full-scale ground operation. >> there is welcome news. do you think that it's been affected? how do you view what the biden administration is doing right now well, to be frank with you, i think the administration is saying that i thing. >> they say that we don't like what we see happening in however, when it comes to action, it's different story. so do i like it? yes, i like it. do i think that this this was enough to change things and to change the course of events. unfortunately, not and unless we see is hideous change, unless we see some clear positions taken, some actions taken, i think we'll stay in the same situation. >> what do you think is going on in gaza right now in terms of is hamas defeated, is how would you do that's been the

israeli joe or goal. do you think it's being achieved? >> no, it was not achieved and it's not going to be achieved and that emphasizes the fact that what's mr. netanyahu is done. now refer has catastrophic. he is taking the, situation to a new level, a new catastrophic level criminal level, i would say without without any specific results because he remember he said the same thing before. he newness he said the same thing before. even the city of gaza before attacking the shifa hospital. and the result was the same. so this is a situation that cannot be solved by military means. only. this is duration that requires also some political consideration and some political understanding of the city tuition that then will take us all to ending this catastrophe and move forward not only to solve the situation in gaza, but to hopefully solve the overall political situation. question as won one

has to assume that the population in gaza is more radicalized. now, i mean, given the the trauma of the last few months if you were to hold an election in gaza tomorrow, am i wrong? and thinking hamas would probably do better than it would have done before i wouldn't agree with you for eid on this one because i think one of the results of the catastrophic situation now is the fact that the population field it's hopeless. >> and the field that the party who brought them here in this situation was at least partly hamas irrespective of the atrocities of the israeli, of the israeli sayyed, i don't think so. nevertheless, let me say also that unfortunately elections tomorrow is impossibility because of the fact not the least, of the existence or the presence of about 2 million displaced palestinians. you cannot say

you're gonna tell a displaced person, come and vote. you have to take care of his means or her needs. first and and provide them with the necessary tools to survive and then move forward and go for political solutions and change internally, democracy, including elections all right, i'll stay with us when we come back. i will ask us or what the day after looks like and what it should look like in his view cnn spotlights 12th tie in years changing the world intimate, look at how these champions make the world a better place. >> champions for change, all this week on cnn, sponsored by charles schwab do you ever worry we wouldn't get you enjoy this seriously. >> he's gotten their bland great. meanwhile, i'm on the green and all i can think about as all the green, i'm spending on three kids in college. it's

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so let's talk about the day after and what it would look like you heard zippy livne saved palestinian authority should take over, but lots of people say, in the united dates in israel frankly in the palestinian territories as well, that the palestinian authority is corrupt. >> it's, it's compromised. and particularly that mahmoud abbas, abu mazen, who heads it is too old to compromise the character. what do you think? >> well, i don't agree with that, but let's talk about the day after in general. and here i think several very important things need to happen. one, first and foremost this catastrophic war needs to end. this blood, letting the agony of the population the crazy ideas such as collective deportation and shrinking the territory of gaza and things like that need to stop. and

then we need to ensure that there is israeli withdrawal. i would without return and without any attempt to impose conditions on the palestinian people that the people don't, don't accept, such as the siege for himself. then of course we need to reach a solution on an exchange of hostages and prisoners. in a way that would end this, this, this drama and in the right way after that here, i agree again with you what you said at the beginning, that we need to have a drastic and seriously reform early reformed palestinian authority, not the kind of gimmick that we saw with the current government when mr. bass brought that government. i mean, there's this did not change anything and cannot change anything we need to change the system in general, we need to change the ability of mr. abbas to govern at will

and to do whatever he wants through maybe unempowered government that can rebuilt gaza, which texas two another thing that needs to happen. we need to have an effective government free from corruption and capable of rebuilding gaza. and prepare the situation. this part of the country, in addition to the west bank, prepare it for elections after a while when the situation permit to this guy, because after all election is the only possible solution real and drastic solution for all the ills of the palestinian situation. and finally, we need to have a conference of donors that would provide for the financial assistance necessary. to rebuild gaza before that, i think we need also to have some kind of an arab security presence that would provide for a temporary situation whereby

it can take over from the israelis and hand over to the palestinian government. then you owe palestinian government i think this something that the arabs would be willing to consider if number one, there is an israeli commitment for full israeli withdrawal from gaza. and number two, if there is an israeli commitment for a political solution, that provides for the two states israel and palestine with the mutual recognition between the two of them by a certain date. that is agreed upon. >> so i don't have a lot of time, but i have to ask you, when you look at the mood in israel today, it seems that they are intent on staying in gaza to maintain some security presence, have already created buffer zones, the creating corridors to make it hard to move from not this gaza. when you ask people in israel about a two-state solution, it seems to be at its lowest, the lowest levels of support for it in decades how would that do you

anticipate this changing? it seems difficult well, it is difficult, but it will it will change once i read an article for an israeli author who said that there will be a political solution, not out of magnanimous the 2d and enthusiasts and but out of desperation and the failure of both sides to annihilate the other side let's on that. somewhat hopeful note, i will leave nasr kid what thank you so much pleasure to have you on next on gps. xi jinping made a rare trip to europe this week what came out of that visit. and what did it have to do with china's competition with america? when we come back story. >> the debate over transgender athletes, i believed i needed to sacrifice being trans in order to swim. we can't neglect

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diego susan, welcome. >> so just give us at the broadest level, what do you think xi jinping is trying to do in going to europe? >> he's trying to win europe back to china. after a long period in which people in europe are very critical of china's position particularly on russia's invasion of ukraine, as well as on trade and humans rights issues. so he's trying to show that even though relations with the united states might be poor he can, he's a good friend and the europeans are good friends of china. >> i mean, in other words, he's trying to get people in the chinese communist party and lead to understand that his foreign policy is it can work yeah, i suppose the most positive way of looking at it

is that perhaps there is an adjustment and chinese policy to moderate it away from this more aggressive wolf warrior diplomacy but actually what he said and did in europe suggests that there isn't any significant adjustment in chinese policy going on. >> he's just trying to show that his policies have not which are i would call overreaching, have not failed. that there sufficiently successful that the french and the serbians of the hungarians, anyway, are willing to welcome him in a positive and friendly manner and do you think it's succeeded? >> i didn't see any big shifts in europe on, particularly on policy too. but russia, ukraine, i agree with you.

there really the tangible results of his meetings. look pretty minimal or invisible and right now, she is under a lot of pressure especially from the united states, because it appears that his support of putin has crossed a red line in that, although he's not giving russia any military equipment per say, he is supporting the military industrial complex. >> and russia and may be facilitating what will later be a russian offensive. which is something that really is a core interest of the europeans and the united states that russia does not win the war in

ukraine. i think that perhaps xi jinping really doesn't understand that. he doesn't understand how important this issue is to the west the susan in your book, overreach, and which i think the subtitle is how china derailed. >> it's peaceful rise. >> you outline, it seems to be very persuasively that xi jinping's foreign policy has been a break with chinese foreign policy and has been unsuccessful. >> it's caused all this antagonism in japan and india and australia and in europe, have you seen any sense of course correction or when you go to china, do people talk about how maybe this wasn't the right path? >> well, people certainly people in the elite are critical of xi jinping's foreign policy along with his domestic policies. and since the lock down, the covid

lockdown and the demonstrations that led to its sudden murmur first of all, there is a surprising amount of dissatisfaction in china at the elite level and at the, at least the middle-class mass level and i don't really know where all of that is going to lead, but i know that xi jinping must be very worried about it i mean, look how rarely he has traveled abroad recently. he's been very preoccupied with china's domestic problems, especially its economic problems, but also he's there having restored a more dictatorial form of communism that resembles mao. and he's got to know, i'm sure he knows that many of the other members of the elite don't agree with his policies

particularly in his kind of bro man's with putin. the russia position of xi jinping is among the most unpopular of his overreaching especially among the elite which i think is a very important context for this trip to europe. >> susan shirt. thank you next our gps with the less than six months until election day, people are wondering whether trump and his supporters once again, reject the democratic process. my next guest says this kind of american anti liberalism h deep historical roots explain them when we come back he was trump's former lawyer and fixer. >> now, michael cohen is expected to testify against his old boss. will we hear any new bombshells from this key? player witness testimony in the

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558999, or visit home serve.com i'm caitlin polantz at the federal court in washington. >> and this is cnn closed captioning is brought to you by skechers, hands-free slip ends what's the greatest invention of all time? new hands-free sketch are slipping. you just slip in and they're on. it's like they have an invisible built-in shoe horn. so your foot and slides into place hands-free sketch your slippers donald trump recently told her reporter that he would only accept the results of the 2024 election quote, if everything's honest, unquote, trump also falsely claimed that he won wisconsin in 2020 with 177 days until election day many, once again, wondering how to think about donald trump, his election denial and his loyal followers while my next guest says their movement has deep historical precedents and as a rebellion against nothing less than the america envisioned by the founding

fathers. that is why robert kagan titled his book rebellion how anti liberalism is tearing america apart. >> again kagan is a senior fellow at the brookings institution bob, let's do this historically because i think it's important people understand your argument. it everyone thinks of america and the founding of america is the, as the culmination of an enlightenment liberal project, liberal meaning, individual liberty, not big government spending but you save from the beginning, there was also an anti liberalism that was part of the founding. >> sure. you know, it was a combination of a certain way of thinking, but it also was something brand new. and i think it's important to remember what was entirely new about the american system. we take it for granted, which is the principle of universal individual right? right before that, the colonists enjoyed their rights as englishman. but the english did not base their constitution on the idea of universal natural rights. so that was a huge leap. so does

have stablished a system where you're supposed to care about others, freedom as much as your own is a very difficult thing in some ways, it's contrary to human nature. and so from the beginning, there has always been resistance to this idea and certainly in the united states, most obviously in prominently because there was still slavery. so even leaders of the south oppose the declaration of independence said it was unnatural. and i think people thought maybe that died would the civil war or died with the brown versus board of education in 1954. but i think what we've seen is that this anti-liberal strain, this resistance to the idea of universal rights goes throughout our history and we're seeing it's still today. >> there was an article recently that pointed out, looked at the rhetoric of trump this time around and pointed out, it's mine more extreme, even than the rhetoric in 2016 it talks about revenge, retribution. i will destroy the old elites.

>> do you worry about that or is that just trump? winging it? >> you never know what trump means and what he doesn't mean. the one thing i feel confident of is that i'm sure this experience of being put on trial would be a searing experience for anyone and for someone who foresees the possibility that he could be the most powerful man in the world the thought of vengeance is clearly forefront in his mind. so i think the answer is yes, he will he will seek vengeance. but the thing to understand that as i think most people do about trump, is the problem is not that he has a careful plan for becoming a dictator. i don't think he has any such plan. he will be addicted taylor by virtue of the fact that he wants what he wants when he wants it, and how he wants to get it. and if you listen to him talk about his second term plans, a lot of it involves militarizing various elements of sayyed a using the military on immigration, using homeland security as a force.

and who's going to stand in his way went when he wants to do something like that what do you say to people who say, look, this is this is the usual liberal hand-wringing and catastrophizing he was elected. >> rule for four years so what if he gets elected again when people talk about his rule for four years and they had this economic policy in that they leave out the very end and at the very end, he tried to rule as a dictator. i mean, let's just think this through. if mike pence had not shown the backbone that he did at that moment, trump might conceivably we have stolen election that had gone against him. and at that point, he would be ruling as a dictator, not as a democratically elected president. he was completely willing to do that, if not eager to do that. i would ask voters in america, what more do you need to know about a presidential candidate? we don't know well, you know, what, biden is going to be like in a second term, but we know what the parameters of what biden are going to be like in a

second term, trump has proven that for him there are no parameters. he has said he's willing to go against the constitution so we don't know for sure what he's actually going to do. but if we're making a judgment about presidential candidates, can we not pick the guy who's already tried to become a dictator and says he would do it again it leaves you. >> i have to say the book it is not a hopeful look there is there is a slight hopeful bit at the end of it in the sense that i believe if we can get past this year's crisis in many ways, this is the last gasp of a shrinking white nationalist minority, a shrinking white christian nationalist minority this is their last chance trump because they're last chance because the country is moving on. >> it's becoming more and more diverse. it's going to be a majority, minority country pretty soon. and so their ability to pull this off again, i think is limited also. i think once donald trump is

gone, the movement will splinter and follow different people. so i believe we are in a unique ugly dangerous moment, but that if we can get past this moment, things look a lot better on that note of optimism about kagan pleasure to have you on thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week every piece of evidence. tell holds the store how it really happened with jesse l. martin tonight. it nine on cnn you open your mailbox and see the hello from your health insurance company. >> you hold your breath will they pay for your child's treatment this time you open the letter and find that you've been denied. again a month later, another letter arrived your premiums are going up again they are banking record

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