powering progress this is cnn

the world's news network. >> just pass 9:00 p.m. here in new york, we begin the hour after the first of what's expected to be several days of testimony, the former president's hush money trial by critical witness michael cohen, a former fixer, an attorney for donald trump. he testified today about the then-candidate's alleged deep level of knowledge and involvement in the payments to stormy daniels, as well as the alleged reimbursement of cohen for cohen says fronting the cash. but cohen's testimony is potentially undermine bypass that includes some felony conviction and i'll the equally significant credibility issues we're joined now by lani davis, famed as a former special counsel for the president clinton. he's now the former attorney and current legal advisor, michael cohen, also former federal prosecutor, elie honig is also joining us line. it's good to see you. what was your impression of how michael cohen did? and what can you tell us about how about the preparations that he has gone through before taking the stand well, i wasn't there, of course, but i hear that he was controlled and it reminded me

of the long journey painful at times that i've had with michael since june of 2018 when he finally talk to me about turning his life and fessing up and owning his lies over ten years with donald trump and i kept saying, why should people believe you? >> that was in june of 2018, the next time he walked into a hearing room on the record on national and international television, looking at a sign on the wall above, congressman jim jordan, head that said, liar, liar, pants on fire and that was the congressional hearings that we expected him to be calm and factual and tell the truth and own all his lies. and do that in real time. and then finally being with him for the last few years while prosecutors questioned him and ultimately decided that they had this case. but following

how they a question to him and how they prepared as elie honig knows, the construction of his case is about documents and about text messages and about corroboration. because of course they know that credibility will be a line of attack and that he's gotta be backed up in everything that he says. and i think that's the way it's been developed. >> and what do you think was the key moment today from his testimony there, the key takeaway? >> you know i wish i could have been in the courtroom. i decided it would be better to be in washington, not bad on my way through the courtroom and be available to do this for michael. but what i gather was a key moment for him was control that he showed. i know last night i perform mother's day dinner. we talked and he was calm, but he was very anxious and has been been a lot of stress, fear for his family, the president united states threatened and his wife is

wife's father is children have been threatened. so he's been through a very bad or deal, not to mention any went to prison and was in solitary confinement after he refused to sign a piece of paper promising not to write a book. this guy has been through a lot of pain and all i heard last night was resolved to do what i said to him before his congressional testimony. keep your voice down. tell the truth, and oan everything that you did wrong for trump don't defend and don't attack just own it and the rest is going to be up to people to judge, including the jury. >> i never bunch of other folks on the panel, hypercard services like my other only other question is a question we asked its former dana there was an attorney just a second ago. do you know how many times he worked with prosecutors and now with prosecutors to go over to prepare for today. i mean, it must have been a lot. yes. >> i was with them every time a lot of people made front of me because that were the same tan jacket all the time, anderson, i had to try to get another jagged we walked in and out of that prosecutors office first

lens, the first set of prosecutors i first called cy and asked him to come up to otis field, federal satellite penitentiary. he was sent to interview them for the first time secretly in prison. and that was in 2019 so count the years, how many sessions we've had with the prosecutors. first piecing together of natural fraud case, ultimately, that went to the york attorney general. >> can which that's billy 100 or more. >> and sometimes hours and hours at an end. so if i counted them up over five years at least hundred one more, you've definitely need another germany and i was there so it was painful i don't that i want two questions for you. one, you said earlier two wallets. are that every word of michael cohen's testimony? i'm one will be corroborated, but is there a way to corroborate what he testified to today? one of the biggest

moments there at the end where he said that trump did approve the agreement that that he and allen weisselberg, ed, come to have how he would be repaid well, i think we had mr. mcconney, hey verify that he was aware of the true up of those numbers. that is allen weisselberg's handwriting. and 30 dictated while the approval of allen weisselberg writing it up and trump knowing that he was not paying legal expenses. rudy giuliani said that on television, donald trump at first said he knew nothing about the stormy daniels matter. we denied the affair but the fact of the legal expenses is going to be the key fact that the juror is just have to use their common they're common sense jurors. so good or bad at night and don't see snow on the ground in wake up in the morning and see snow on the ground have not seen it snow, but they use their common sense. there's no other reasonable alternative

donald trump in the oval office, why does this shock us? it shocked me the first time michael told me it was before the congressional hearing. i said, how did you get paid michael the money that you laid out for stormy daniels? he said, oh, he wrote me checks when well, in the oval office when i visited him as president, he wrote you checks in the oval office where are those checks? oh, well, their home. well, could you ask loretta take a photograph and send them to my phone so i can get them to the congressional committee. so what is the explanation that donald trump would say why he wrote $35,000 checks from a personal bank account? while he was a sitting president? >> yeah. unless he testifies and i invited him today to testify, he said he would testify. why won't he testify unless michael is telling the truth and he's afraid to test if yeah. >> i have a feeling he's not going to get on the stand, but i do want to just remind everyone of this one. because you bring up the oval office. i agree with you and i actually asked donald trump about

michael cohen in the oval office. this was after the fbi had raided his home and his office, and trump had been saying publicly that the new york times is trying to get michael cohen to flip on him and just, you can see the level of anger and trump's face as he doesn't answer these questions. thank you very much on the other tapes mr. obviously, after that trump had his aides banned me from the white house, but i just wonder what you what you think it was like for michael cohen to be there in the room with donald trump today and for donald trump to listen to that test. one well, honestly, i listened to michael's voice last night and he sounded relieved to me and burdened because he finally after all this time he.

>> finally, going, to be able to tell the truth what happens to mr. trump, whether he is acquitted or convicted is really not my concern nor should it be anybody's concerned. it's up to a jury that's our jury system. and if he is acquitted and i accept that, but what i wanted was for michael as delta, his lawyer, to tell the truth and get his life back and when he called me and he said he was doing this for his wife and his family and his country. i believe tim because i knew he was only opening the door to a lot of suffering who is going to go to jail? he is going to be vilified by mr. trump and all of his supporters and his face, nothing but pain. but i think there's something relieving about telling the truth and going through the pain of telling the truth. and that's what i hear heard in his voice last night land its ally here. good to see you. it's been a little bit. >> i just wanted to follow up, so almost exactly 12 hours ago, i asked you, is michael cohen going to testify that donald

trump approved these payments? >> in what you had termed the mob boss style, the general go ahead and get it done, or is he going to say that donald trump specifically authorized the specific retainer payments you said 12 hours go it was going to be the mob boss style, but actually michael cohen did the opposite. he gave specific testimony. he finished up his testimony by saying there was a specific time when alawites bragg and i met with donald trump, laid out and retain her payments and he said, do it. were you surprised by that no. >> sorry, ellie, i either misspoke. it didn't speak clearly or i'm just plain tired no, of course, i've heard michael telling me that it was very specific. the understanding was he waited and waited. david pecker and the people at the national enquirer were telling them you got to pay. it was panic setting in as election day approached. and finally, michael was waiting and waiting and then he got the instruction. go ahead and pay it. no question. but he also many times got the code from donald trump and lots of other incidents that he testified to in his congressional hearing. i

think i was referring to that elie lanny. >> let me ask you a question about the charges in this case. this is a case about false business records prepared by the trump organization does and this was something i was a little unclear about from the testimony today does michael cohen know specifically how donald trump caused false business records to be made, or did he just take the money and assume the false business business records were made i'm not aware in all the hours that i spent with him, which over 100 hours prosecutors room, that he saw the recording of those business records as legal expenses which made them fraudulent and of course enhances the 34 counts into felonies as a means of concealing the crime that i don't think there's any doubt that he was motivated for political reasons.

>> everybody. i just don't get that argument on that any longer. and of course, i'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because he is innocent until proven beyond a reasonable doubt geoff. but on the actual recording of the expenses, i think it's more like the famous circumstantial evidence test that i said earlier he knew they weren't legal expenses. of that is certain. and those numbers were recorded as legal expenses. so is he going to argue that he didn't know they were recorded as legal expenses when he knew he was writing checks from the oval office to reimburse a crime i am. and that is the what the jury has to use its common sense about and the old song that i mentioned. if you go to sleep at night, there's no snow on the ground. you wake up in the morning. there's snow on the ground, there's no direct evidence that it's node. this jury is going to have to use it's common sense did donald trump really lie about there being legal expenses and then they recorded as legal expenses. and it wasn't because of his instruction that there should

be a concealment of the real crime, which was the crime that michael cohen went to jail for, which is paying money for political reasons, right before an election let me davis, i really appreciate your time tonight. thank you could i say one thing, anderson? go yale. >> spent a long time since i've said that to you. so go yeah you have a good night. >> thank you. thank you, everyone else does stay with us where the full transcript from today's testimony coming up, michael cohen testifying on the fallout of the access hollywood tape, plus the former president brought an entourage for republicans with them today to save the things that gag order prevents him from saying that's ahead russia. we're trying to spy on us. we were spying on them. >> this is a secret, war. >> secrets and spies premier sunday june 2, beta1 home cnn

30 sandals, jamaica segall, these now odd with rates from 1909 per person per night, these its sandals.com or call one 800 sandals you were diagnosed with thyroid disease a long time ago and year after year, you weathered the storm and just lived with the damage that was left behind. but even after all this time your thyroid eye disease good. still change restoration is still possible learn how you could give your eyes a fresh start at ten de help.com with armor all a little bit of this protects you from a lot of that honore,

less work, more clean by $20, get five back through may 31st for muscle cramps and spasms their works absorbs quickly for relief so get back at it. their works works for fast muscle relief. there are works, works try their works and get back at it. >> how could anyone possibly know that every single one of these pistachios is guaranteed to be wonderful by reading

right here. >> wonderful pistachios or the pistachios that are wonderful. but the word wonderful on them clog gutters can cause big problems fast until now, call a33 lee filter today for your free gutter inspection, i've had terrible flooding problems on my porch. >> now i understand why right now, lee filter is offering a free the inspection on your schedule. leaf filters are permanent gutter solution, so you never have to worry about costly damage from clog gutters again, call us today and schedule your friends inspection. >> schedule your free three

available in the baking aisle sunday on the whole story, i'm going to spend time here with this world renown doctor who believes he's figured out a way not just to prevent all timers, but two reverse it. dr. sanjay gupta reports on hold for the devastating effects of all timers reversing something that's seems so preordained. it sounds extraordinary and takes a very personal medical assessment. >> i've come to figure out

whether i'm at risk for later mentioned the whole story with anderson cooper sunday at eight on cnn the full transcript of today's testimony by michael cohen is out. >> he became the latest witness to testify. just how scared the former president of 2016 campaign staff was when the access hollywood tape surfaced one former aide who worked at the rnc when the tape came out usually testified that members there were rattled than that she remembers conversations about possibly needing to replace trump as the republican presidential candidate. today, cohen gave more testimony about the fallout and john berman joins us with some of those transcripts. >> yeah, it was really the stormy daniel's matter following access hollywood, that according to michael cohen in rage, donald trump are really set him off. he's describing a moment when stormy daniel's people is to be keith davidson and dylan howard from the acquirer came forward and said, stormy daniel's is looking for some money here. hovland or the prosecutors says, did you tell him donald trump what you had heard from dylan howard and keith davidson cohen says, yes, hoffacker says, and what was his

reaction? cohen says, he was really angry with me. i thought you had this under control. i thought you took care of this. i expressed to mr. trump, we did 2011 with the stormy daniel's matter first came up cohen says, i have no control over what she goes out and does. and he expressed to me there was a previous denial just take care of it. >> there was a lot going on in the campaign at the time. >> he was like just cake, take care of it, hoffinger asks, did he say anything to you at the time about how this might be viewed if it got out, cohen says yes, hoffinger, what did he say? hey, in substance cohen, he said to me, this is a disaster, a total disaster women are going to hate me because this is really a disaster women will hate me. guys may think it's cool, but this is going to be a disaster for the campaign. hoffinger, what if anything, do you understand it to mean by women will hate this and what his concern was todd blanche says objection, judge. overruled michael cohen says he was pulling very poorly with women in this coupled with the previous access hollywood tape,

he just stated this disaster and get control over it. >> i think we can put this particular aspect of this case to bed. i mean, it obviously was motivated by the campaign that payoffs every single witness has set it. it makes perfect common sense. this is michael cohen saying nothing new that everybody hasn't said before. and yeah, there's a couple of snippets where people said, well, he was worth trump was worried about meloni. i was worried about his family situation. that's fine. that doesn't cancel out, that they've shown. i think more than adequately, that there was a campaign mode. if i just don't see any basis to say that there was no concern with the campaign. how could that even be? well, he doesn't hearing this and jeff doesn't hearing this ring this bell about attorney-client privilege. >> what how is how is he's representing me i am the prior i'm a loyal to the president in his private lawyer, and we're having these private conversations how does this attorney for an exception? okay. so there's a crime-fraud exception and here's the only

way that comes in because now you have two lawyers on the jury who may know of this the only way the crime for an exception, it comes in is the judge has dad to have ruled beforehand that there were some that that it fits into the crime-fraud exception. so now the lawyers if the lawyers know their stuff, the way my colleagues here do in their mind, they're like, well, the only reason why we're hearing this is because the trial judge as already ruled, that there must have been some crime here that there's now there's an exception to the attorney-client privilege. that's the way we're hearing michael cohen is no longer an attorney. >> he was disbarred as a part of those secondly, to that point, michael cohen's not the first person to testify fight to this. and this is a way that you saw the prosecution handling this today is a lot of what michael cohen testified to texts that he read calls, that he backed up were once that the jury had already seen it doesn't matter where you can but hope hicks has already testified that trump was worried about what was going to happen with the election. we've heard that from david pecker as they anticipated that women

problem hope hicks is not his lawyer. michael cohen, issues. they said it, so it he said the jury heard it, so it doesn't nullify it. it's a good question. i think the answer is this attorney-client privilege has been very much waived by both parties. i think trump and cohen have long ago suspended any claim that they're still covered by privilege. they've both talked at length publicly in front of congress here in this trial to prosecutors about what was said. so i think this has been very much weight, meaning given off by both parties longer exactly. >> our exactly like it's long gone. >> what i don't understand what i don't understand in advance and we'll see is i understand that you can point out that michael cohen has this history of lying. you say lied to his wife, but which parts of his testimony will they try to go after? that's what i find. curious because i think so much of his testimony is bolstered by other witnesses. you can say he's a terrible person. you can say he's he's convicted perjure, but what is the

testimony before this jury? that's false. that's part let's say i have a little bit of the charge. >> it's the sample charge. i don't know if this is exactly what the judge is going to read, but this is the part of it. if you find that anyone has has intentionally testified falsely as to any material fact you may disregard that witnesses entire testimony, or you may disregard so much of it as you find it was untruthful. there's also a part here that says did the witness have a conscious bias, hostility, or some other attitude that affected their truthfulness? of the witness's testimony. all jury can take that into consideration. >> all that all that is true. >> but the question is, was the money a reimbursement that's it's just seems to me that so much of this case is proven, even if even if michael cohen is a terrible, let me ask you this question. i wanted to ask it to allow any davis what

should donald trump have written data? so first of all, we saw the checks and the judge does not say legal fee. it's just a fee. it just amount of money to michael cohen. so it doesn't say not all the legal three on the check and so it could be that it's here. i'm reimbursing him and this is part of the reimbursement. so what should have said, don't forget, it's a non-disclosure agreement. so what you don't want it to say is reimbursement to pay hush money to stormy daniels what should it have been logged under what word should have been put in the books, something other than a lie, which is that it was a retainer. >> they've done say no one ever says where's dangerous is a legal fee. he's paying his lawyer back for money. that is lawyer paid out to the phrase on the on the on the stubs is retainer. that's the word retainer. okay. and it's not a retainer. >> you're right. it is not a retainer, but it could be considered a legal fee when it's a lawyer who laid out their money for you and now you're paying the lawyer back.

>> i will say arthur, that throughout the test and money what you do see is cohen and others testifying that trump was where of many of the specifics of what was going on. and there was another element of that in the testimony today. he's talking about setting up the accounts where the ultimate payments came from. the prosecutor says, did you call mr. trump before you went and set up the account to make a transfer, cohen says yes hoffinger says, what substance did you discuss with him on these two calls for which there are car records for cohen says, i want him to ensure once again, he approved i was doing because i required approval from him on all of this. that's what the sum and substance of the conversation was laying out exactly what was going to happen and what was being done in order to ensure the story and gets sold to the daily mail or somebody else officer, did you let him know you're going across the street and you're going to get the account setup and make the payment. cohen says, yes, ma'am, would you have made the payment to stormy daniels out getting a sign off from mr. trump. cohen says, no, hoffinger asks, why not? cohen says because everything

required mr. trump sign-off on top of that i wanted the money back. >> okay. so this is really important testimony and this is a good example of where michael cohen is and is not corroborated throughout the state. it's october 26, about two weeks before the election the prosecution did a masterful job of weaving and various forms of corroboration. there's the phone records that john talked about. there's certificates from the bank, there's emails that backup that that's exactly what michael cohen did that day. however, to jeffries point, how are they going to cross-examine? how are they going to suggest michael collins lying? they're going to say what you actually discussed. the content of that phone call with donald trump. all we have for that is michael cohen's word and folks on the jury, can you trust him at his word? yeah. there's other stuff scaffolding is a good expression you used earlier. there's scaffolding around him, but to fill that in, you have to take the word of this man at face value that's what they're going to say. he's not a fabulous he's not inventing things but he's an opportunity to right, you're right. but and just to emphasize that point, the most provocative and interesting parts of his

testimony today, we're about conversations he had with donald trump yes. >> and for that, there is no corroboration unless donald trump takes the stand, which we all know he's probably don't me here for that is how much he would sort of go into donald trump's office. or he says he would go into donald trump's office even after one phone call to fill in trump on something that trump wanted to hear all the details of all these steps along the way for just about everything monday. okay. and that goes to the standard issue that comes up in cooperating with cooperators all the time and your point about oh, he's a terrible person. >> he's a liar. will who was inside and outside of donald trump's office for ten years? >> here the judge, the jury, a motive. you may consider whether a witness had or did have a motive to lie. they're going to show a picture of him wearing a t-shirt that has donald trump behind bars. does this guy have biased as this guy of a motive to put him

behind jail. he's telling the whole world but he does and it will be interesting to see how he handles that on cross because today he made a point. it's several several junctures where he would make fun of himself or he would say yeah, i had an ego that's why i thought that i should get a job in the white house or yes, i did want to benefit from being donald trump's personal attorney and i knew it would come with a lot of opportunities where maybe donald trump wasn't paying me once he was president, but i was going to get all this other access. he took these small moments to kind of make fun of himself or criticized himself. and the question is, how the jury will discern that they're essentially expressionless during this entire testimony. you cannot tell they're paying such close attention. they're taking copious notes, but you cannot tell but what they are thinking or how they're taking it. >> john berman, thanks very much. i appreciate it coming up. the former president brought some political backups with them to court today, including republican senators jd vance and tommy tuberville. we'll talk about why would the democratic strategist james carville next spotlights 12th

pioneers changing the world intimate look at how these champions make the world a better place. champions for change. all this week on cnn, sponsored by charles schwann fashion moves fast setting trends is our business we need to scale with customer demand in real time so we partner with verizon, their solution for us, a private by gi network. >> we now get more control of production efficiencies and greater agility when a custom private five she network, our customers, get what they want when they want it. now, or even smarter, and are ready for what's next. >> achieve enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your variety when i was diagnosed with hiv, i didn't know who i would be, but here i am being me. >> keep being you and ask your health care provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment. but tare, big dharavi is complete one pill once a day treatment used for hiv, and many people, whether

you're 18 or 3d with one small pill, pick derby fights hiv to help you get to detectable and stay there. whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment research shows that taking hiv treatment as prescribed and getting two and staying undetectable prevents transmitting hiv through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure, rare life threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems to not take battarbee if you take dofetilide or rifampin, tell your health care provider about all the medicines and supplements you take. if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis, if you have the titis, beat and that stuff, taking victory without talking to your health care provider common side effects with diarrhea, nausea, and headache, no matter where life takes you, big tar we can go with you, talk to your healthcare provider today and university of maryland global campus, getting a bachelor's degree doesn't have to mean starting from scratch here, you can earn up to 90 undergraduate credits for relevant experience. what will your next success speaks sure, i'm a paid

actor and this isn't a real company, but there's no way to fake up work can help your business so it's talent all over the world with over 10,000 house more than 30% of the fortune 500 units upward because this is how we work now deep down, i knew something with row since my fatigue and lightheadedness would come and go. >> i figured it wasn't a big deal. then i saw my doctor and found out i have a field and that means there's about a five times greater risk of stroke symptoms, like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or lightheadedness can come and go, but if you have a fib the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out, holding off on seeing a doctor won't change whether or not to have eight-fifths but if you do making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk contacted dr. and learn more at no time to wait that call we're trying to save

the planet with nuggets because we need the planet and we also need nuggetsext goal, a 700 crer

join me at time.com. >> i'm mj lee at the white house and this is cnn on arguably the biggest de of his criminal trial, the former president brought his biggest entourage, including number of republican lawmakers and at least one vice presidential hopeful synergy, any vance able hi it took the microphone, shouldn't the lunch break to denounce the proceedings what's going on inside that courtroom is a threat to american democracy. >> ladies and gentlemen, we cannot have a country we're, you get to prosecute your political opponents instead of persuading voters van 22 attack prison biden, who to be clear, has nothing to do with this trial and take shots at michael cohen, which defendant of course, is gag from doing. >> giorni is now a democratic

strategist. james carville. so james, i mean, she won't be surprised that i mean, the former trump's running mate auditions have moved to the courthouse not at all. what i'm striving to took people so long to get there. i mean, he got cameras, she got publicity, he got to suck up to trump it of course there is zero evidence that present biden had anything to do with just prosecution, but i've just done it took so long my favorite to adamson was sent a tuberville from alabama, who said that the manhattan criminal court was depressing, i guess it was expecting my cousin vinny to shut off can do both places right places in the world. yeah do you think get guilty verdict or for that matter, a hung jury would hurt the former president politically. >> i mean nothing else seems to the latest polson near time, show him ahead of president biden a bunch of key swings right? >> i haven't seen in the last

year, we've had indictments, we've had war as we paid foreign policy crisis. the post haven't changed so i don't think anybody can say would much comp weirdly enough that it just just seems to be stuck in a place and it's been stuck there for a while i don't know all predictions that things will change been futile. so far but all i can tell you is that i don't know, but i think a hung jury would would would help him i do think give them more enthusiastic drawing this huge crowds and it's quite concerning out there james, it's kaitlan collins. and first i have to tell you roll tide because i see your your tiger shirt that you're wearing right now. but i have to ask you, speaking of senator tuberville for alice wait from alabama. he clearly is someone who is beautiful, been angling

for maybe a cabinet position if trump wins and is back in the white house, jd vance, obviously, it would like to be vice president. others in this realm, we're going to show up. we know vivek ramaswamy, marco rubio sure. we'll see doug burgum maybe at some point. what do you make of the fact that all these people who are either trying out to be donald trump's vice presidential pick or in his cabinet are in that second row of the courtroom what's really amazing is the lack of support. i think your son, eric, was the only family member and he kinda showed up for a day. i don't think his wife will get within the same state easier but but it's been amazing that no one has figured out which since the bantam center at the tuberville for them, they got more publicity. to date and have gotten maybe all year and i suspect that they were going to see more support for him to trial because people figured out where the late that that the cameras at they can get

exposure but it was really surprising is to the trump supporters don't show up. there was one person sitting out there supporting him, so it is a pretty lonely guy in it in that courtroom. >> yeah. it's only been maybe ten supporters outside the court else, even though anyone can go and eric trump, you make a good point because eric trump has been the only family member who's been there. he was back there again today. i've seen him probably three times, but politically speaking, you would always see a candidates spouse next to them in a moment like this. and i think obviously melania trump is not a typical politicians is felt by any means, but what does it say that that she isn't there? >> well, i it says a lot. i mean, the whole thing would baron was going to be a delegate and she came in and said no i don't not privy to innate a private details of their marriage, but it doesn't seem to be a very from a distance. and it doesn't seem to be remotely are happier

close win, but that's really not a business. but it is amazing. i mean, if you want to criminal trial, you would think your family would show up where your friends are. there would be some kind of support for your emotional support and moral support, but it's really stunning how little he said until today in i think the cameras will draw some more people there how do you think president biden should handle this? >> should he be commenting on the trial more directly or they're obviously wary of doing so, given trump is so directly tried to say that this is biden's trial file, even though it's obviously not it's not like just thing as not being covered. you don't need to throw an extra well-known a firearm and it's bleeding away now and i think i agree that the president should stay away from it, shouldn't comment on it. but right now he's got to try to move some money numbers yet these posen

stuck in a ditch and admin at way for awhile if the access hollywood tape didn't derail trump's campaign in 2016, why would a case? >> involving business records for the stormy daniel's pay off derail his campaign in 2024 i don't know anderson if it's a good question, and i can't pretend that i know the answer to. >> i don't think anybody else can pretend that they know the answer to it. you would think all of these indictments you'd think that the covid response even think everything that had been january to six, i was firmly convinced that it would done in by january 6, more people than ever think it's a tourist visit now so i'm totally flummoxed is how distinct stays the same. but i do know one thing. it just stays the same and nothing two more things happened the more things stay the same. and we're democrats are due and the presence of doing terrible would voters under 30 would,

with black voters, which are pretty key to this whole equation here. so hopefully, we can get something going here. in the next four or five months. but right now we're not looking at promising james. >> it's it's abby phillip here. i wonder. i mean, now, now we know, hey, i mean now we know that this might be maybe the only trial that we see if donald trump this year is it time for democrats to move on and look at the fundamentals of this race and not see these trials as somehow this x factor that's going to have a huge influence on how this thing turns out in november yeah. >> i think i think we have to because the fundamentals right now, frankly are, are depressing. and we have all of these events in, they changed little nothing. i mean, maybe there's some evidence that trump might be a point and a half or two points. we could

end. it was a year for go, but you have to really squint to see that happening. and i don't see the numbers for the present moving now on the upside is we are doing pretty well. they shouldn't racers and that's been pretty consistent over several months. i've seen a lot of senate poland and that does look good. but right now in the presidential race, this is a sticky wicked out there that's all i can say. >> if there are all these characters parading to the courthouse to maybe audition for trump's vp. there are some who were here this week some who were down in mar-a-lago over the last couple of weeks. which one do you think poses the greatest? threat here to the biden campaign at this point i don't think i don't think trump's vice president natural pick is going to mean a lot i mean, i think he picked pence because he thought it probably would put some validity thought hitch shore up

the kind of religious, right? >> a little bit. i think that needs an argument or not there's some argument that it did in 2016 help him in that response yeah, i did couldn't help himself. >> i said authority pretty sharp and it might have helped it might help some on the margins but i don't you don't people come up in your speculated it could be this person that person? i don't see any vice presidential pick changing the bishop, keep equation that we're looking at right now i really don't. i mean, what i'm hoping happens is recovery keeps going on and it keeps dig in deeper down and people start feeling it. but right now it's a recovery that people have denying that exist. and it's a good word is recovery because you have come back from something. so we should call it a recovery but our economic message in is not breaking through. it's been counterproductive so far and james carville great to have you appreciate it thank you, guys. >> thank you. it was a great

panel. thank you glad you're more or less how the jury is receiving cohen's testimony so far and whether they'll ultimately by the words i'm going to meet a liar reaction from a trial and jury consultant name i'm pete medina, reagan national airport. >> this is cnn i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. >> now, they're sky rosie. things are looking. afghans control macron's means everything feel significantly in symptom relief at four weeks with sky rosie, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. >> sky rosie is the first il-13 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improved we've damage of the intestinal lining and the majority of people experience long-lasting remission at one year. >> serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lower ability you to fight them may occur tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms had a

vaccine or plan to liver problems may occur in crohn's disease now's the time the ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with sky rosie learn how fv could help you save detect this living with hiv. >> craig learned you can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. >> that's why he switched to nevado nevada was a complete hiv treatment for some adults. >> no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable, than davon detect this, leo learn that most hiv pills contain three or four medicines. >> devito is as effective with just two. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop to vada without talking to your doctor don't take divorce if you're allergic to its ingredients are taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects if you have a rash or allergic reactions, symptoms stopped of auto and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can

occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems or if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, are considering pregnancy devito may harm and unborn baby most common side effects or headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble, sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. >> detect this. you could stay undetectable with fewer medicines. asked your doctor about delano when you have chronic kidney disease places you'd like to be like here here not so much here are seeker reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis our sega can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal dehydration urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. >> a rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking far sega and call

your doctor right away. if you have symptoms of this infection and allergic reaction or ketoacidosis when you have chronic kidney disease, it's time to ask her doctor for farsi because their places you want to be if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help my mental health was better, but uncontrollable movements called teeny tardive dyskinesia disrupting my day td felt embarrassing i felt like disconnecting i asked my doctor about treating my td and learned about in grad phi in greta is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks, people taking aggressive can stay on most mental health meds let me number one, prescribed in gaza has simple dosing for td, always one pill once daily in reza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts or actions in patients with huntington's disease pay close attention to then call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood behaviors feelings, or have thoughts of suicide, don't take in gaza if

you're allergic to its ingredients in gaza may cause serious side effects including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements report fevers, stiff muscles are problems thinking as these may be life-threatening sleepiness is the most common side effect. >> take control by asking your doctor about in grants i'm caitlin polantz at the federal court in washington, and this is cnn today. >> michael cohen also later details of the alleged catch and kill scheme involving a former playboy model, karen mcdougal. here's what he said. he told trump after learning mcdougal was looking to sell a story about there for alleged relationship, quote, i asked him if he knew who karen mcdougal was, if he knows anything about the story, his response to me was she's really beautiful. i said, okay, but there's a story that right, that right, that's right now being shopped prosecutor susan hoffinger then asked him, did mr. trump asked you to take any action with respect to the story, cohen replied, yes, avenger says, what did he ask you in general to do? cohen answers, make sure it doesn't get released. here's what

mcdougal said to me in 2018 do you think the presidential race had anything to do with this deal getting done what i'm looking back at it now, possibly, yeah if donald trump hadn't been running for president, do you believe this deal would have been made with ami knowing what you know now, probably not no haven't been that you're pretty you're convinced now this was an effort to do a favor for donald trump in the last few months of the presidential race unfortunately, yes it's tough cutting from that shot of me in 2018 to this, i'm just saying ravid been ravaged by time as john oliver one said, 20 to start with jury trial consultant around i was to beale we're not appreciate you being with us. >> one of the things that the courtroom sketch artist who is here said christine cornell, which is something a lot of us have noticed being in the courtroom, is that the jury does not look at donald trump when they come in and out. >> does that you read anything

into that as a jury interiors typically do not look at defendants that often when they're coming in or out but be sure they are watching his every move. >> so when he is shaking his head, they are noticing when he is muttering things under his breath, they are noticing and you know, he might not be doing himself any favors by doing that because they're catching all of that and they're thinking, all right, you want to say something, take the witness stand so i don't know that it's such a great thing. he's doing it one thing i'd be watching for though, as the jurors walk in and out of the two lawyers, muddy buddies, because that is something now i'm not a believer in reading faces are reading body language, but something you can tell r what jurors are bonding with each other. and if the two lawyers are bonding, that's good for somebody. and if they're not buying on doing that could show you that there's gonna be some what we do anniston honestly, because i've tried several cases in that courthouse. there's only a couple of places to go eat lunch around there. now, i don't know if they're getting any extra security because of this case, but typically they don't and it's interesting to

see who's eating lunch with who, who just went. we're not we'll said who's going on the brakes with who when they get a break, who's going to get a soda with who, and you're trying to figure and then you go back and you look at the sheets that were not okay. creates and you're like, okay, well, this guy's a bus driver and he's hanging out with this woman who is an accountant and the truth is, we don't know what the heck we're talking about it's all it's all who knows who's going to say people have been together now for weeks. >> so personalities are kicking in. there are people that like each other. there are people for sure that do not like each other on to each other. >> before deliberation or not. >> so you're not supposed to discuss the case, but they have to talk about something. so i don't have much experience of court, but i testify once in front of a jury and i was interested that some of them were very attentive, some of them clearly were bored by just not wanting to be there and no interest. >> what i was saying watching this jury as a spectator. two weeks ago, they were intensely watching this. none of them seem bored to be, none of them seem to be thinking about

something else. >> well, this is riveting stuff. this is maybe the most exciting i thought my testimony was not well, not that your testimony wasn't riveting. i'm sure, but i mean, this is just such a historical event that they're taking part of. and what you see is we haven't lost any jurors, which is extremely unusual in a trial of this line, brent nobody is going to drop if they can help or not. let me ask you about something that arthur said very loudly. >> suddenly, is there's a jury offended. >> there's a jury you don't even need supply there's there's a jury instruction that says if someone lies about one thing, you can discredit all their testimony. >> do jurors do that, or do they more pick and choose what they choose to believe? >> luck, they make their decision and then they back into it. >> however, they're going back into it right? they look at the case holistically and then if they pick and choose to reach their decision that's what

they're gonna do. and that's just the way it works. >> fine. people going with their gut like i trust this person who testified, i don't trust this person. i liked first, i didn't like them or i didn't like them, but i believe what they're saying and going without rather then the minutia of i think i think people start with their gut and then they back into the logic. i don't know that it's the logical progression that you might think it is. so you know, how they feel about michael cohen is going to have a big impact. but i think he did some interesting things today. one, he had an opportunity to say that donald trump either told him we're didn't tell him that he had an intimate relationship with stormy daniels and he didn't do that. and i know you as a prosecutor probably would have said, well, if he's going to lie, he would allied better. that was a perfect opportunity for him to say something to bury donald trump. and he didn't do it. that shows these credible eye contact because there were moments where there are probably three moments where he would really look at the jury, but there were a lot of moments where he to answer a question from the prosecutor and then she'd start asking another one and then he'd look at the jury to kind of see like how they so

they took it, but he wasn't looking at them as he was answering. >> does that make a difference in how they if they trust them, i advise witnesses when they're testifying, do what's comfortable to you, don't don't if you're not comfortable making, i contact with the jury, don't do it. if you're feel more comfortable looking at the person that's questioning you do that. it's really you have to be natural and authentic. that's the most important thing and testifying, i'm a big believer to renata as point in, just the gut instinct i think so much of this comes down to god. i mean, i had an experience where once we tried to case, we put on a really bad guys a cooperator and ten of the 12 jurors just outright rejected it, didn't like him thought he was scary, rejected his testimony, that jury hang ten wanted to play it but wait wait. for the ending. now, we reach tried it and they convicted on everything, including on things that were solely based uncorroborated on that cooperators testimony. so it's probably because they liked you, maybe georgia, so that they felt clips, but honestly, it could just be as simple as that. we'd liked this layer. we don't like to 30, 12 human beings like this

cooperator. we don't like an is it to have somebody who has lied repeatedly in the past? >> here's here's a obviously a huge obstacle, but, but just because he's, lied in the past, they could say if he is credible about this, like i said, the stormy daniels thing, i think he did himself a favor, but i think there was there was one interesting thing that he said was a $375,000 that he was getting paid. >> if you do the math and divide that by 12, that's 31,000 and change that sort of lines up with the 35,000 he was getting a month, which is what the trump team is going to argue that these were legitimate payments for legal fees every month. so i thought that was a very interesting thing. >> the thing that with this case is that there's, there's almost like a crystal clear common sense argument about what happened. but then the legal part of it actually feels to me it quite complex if you're on the jury, how how do you think the jury is going to deal with that? there's a part that seems obvious. yeah, this was about the campaign. yeah. trump didn't want people to know oh, yes, he didn't want to

do it the right way because it would have been illegal. but but proving the elements of the crime, it's the jury going to have a hard time with that? yes. >> i think they're going to struggle, but i think we all tried to make decisions in the most straightforward and easy and simple way we can and one way they're going to start that process such as they're gonna go into the jury room and they're gonna say, do you believe michael cohen, but we're not going to your point, you and i've worked on trials together and i would be saying this, it doesn't matter that donald trump feeling air whose job biden sitting there, i'd be saying the same thing. it's not going to be easy. this isn't the kind of cases that you see in state court where it's straight up bribery. what did he do? he told me you do this. i'll give you this amount of money like even the menendez case down the block. this is like complicated legal issues that basically what they're saying is two misdemeanors outside the statue of limitations. if you put them together, you get a felony that's inside the statue of limitations conflict. >> we've already put the defense made it easy because they're saying straight-up

these war $35,000 legal payments, you either believe that or you don't. if you don't believe it, they're going to convict him. well, let me just very quickly, would you have wanted to jurors on the i2 lawyers on this? >> i am very squeamish about putting layers on any jury unless you are really confident about what they're gonna do. look, we don't know the names of the jurors. the parties do they know a lot more about them than we do. so they might know something we don't are not stable. thank you. great to have your expertise. thanks, everyone. programming note before we hand off tonight this friday at 3:16, special my replay, my interview with karen mcdougal's you just saw i talked her back in 2018 right after the story broke of her alleged affair with former president, something he denies. it's the only teepee interviews she's done. watch the interview this friday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. the news continues right here on cnn if

you're living with hiv imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills good to go unscripted good to go on a whim with kevin uva. >> there's no pausing for daily hiv pills for elsewhere undetectable. kevin uva is the only complete long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month it's two injections from a health care provider, just six times a year? don't receive cabinet. if you're allergic to its ingredients or if you're taking certain medicines which may interact with cabinet, serious side effects include allergic reactions, post injection reactions since liver problems and depression. if you have a ration, other allergic reactions, symptoms, stock habit, nuba, and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems of mental health concerns and if you are pregnant or breastfeeding or considering pregnancy, some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, beaver and tiredness with kaba nova, you're good to

go. ask your doctor about switching seconds, jamaica sale is now odd with rates from 1909 for a person per night visit, sad those.com, or call one and clog gutters can cause big problems fast until now, call a33 lee filter today for your free gatera i've had terrible flooding problems on my porch. >> now i understand why right now, we filter is offering a free inspection on your schedule. lee filter is a permanent gutter solution, so you never have to worry about constantly damaged from clog gutters again call us today and schedule your free inspection schedule your free inspection, colleague. three three leaf filter today, more physically filtered.com the darkness of bipolar depression made me feel like i was losing interest in the things i love and i found a chance to let in the light, discover capitalize unlike some

medicines that only treat bipolar one capital ada is proven to deliver signals if it can symptom relief from both bipolar one and two, depression and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain or not common capital ayta can cause serious side-effects. >> call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away antidepressants may increase these risks and young adults, elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death after a stroke. capitalize has not approved for dementia-related psychosis report fever, confusion, or stiff muscles which may be life-threatening or uncontrolled muscle movements which may be permanent tom side effects include sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, and try mouth. these aren't all the side effects and the darkness of bipolar one and two depression calculator can help you let in the light a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose comcast business. and now, we're introducing ultimate speed for business —our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds... at no additional cost.

it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! pain-free absorbing pro i'm pete mundane at reagan national airport. >> this is cnn closed captioning is brought to you by skechers massage fit sandals check these out. >> skechers massage that

sandals. they give you what