for free visit otter.ai, ai or download the yeah the lead with jake tapper. next on cnn welcome back to our special coverage. >> cord has just ended. jurors are about to have a long weekend to think back on michael cohen's cross-examination and one potentially pivotal moment when the defense attorney, todd blanche, got cohen to admit he didn't fully remember a key phone calls the directly tied donald trump do a hush money payment made to stormy daniel's, michael cohen is going to be back on the stand

monday morning when cross-examined amination continues in the prosecution certainly has its work cut out for them. the lead with jake tapper starts right now these cnn's breaking news welcome to the lead. >> i'm jake tapper. court has just ramped up for the de and donald trump's hush money cover-up trial. it is a day you should remember because if if donald trump, the former president is acquitted the history books may well point to michael cohen's testimony today as the biggest reason cohen's cross-examination will resume. next week, we're told after he endured hours of brutal questioning on the stand today, trump's defense attorney todd blanche laid out cohen's past lies under oath, and then introduced evidence claiming that cohen has also lied in this trial under oath cohen previously testified on tuesday, i believe, about a key october 2016 phone call. he says he had with donald trump

about the hush money reimbursement. but todd blanche today reveal text messages and a call log from that day that threatened to destroy cohen's credibility about that testimony from two days ago, the defense suggested that cohen's october 2016 phone call was not about the stormy daniels deal at all. we'll tell you more about that in a second. source is also tells cnn that as we've been reporting, all de the defense may in fact call michael cohen's former attorney, robert costello, was a witness. this after costello testified to house lawmakers yesterday, a bound his former clients saying, quote, virtually every statement of cohen has made about him on the stand during this trial has been ally let's begin with cnn's paula reid, who's outside court, polo, walk us through what the defense and michael cohen said today in the courts specifically about this october 24, 2016 phone call all today, trump's attorney todd blanche, successfully undercut several

key pieces of michael cohen's testimony for prosecutors. >> the most significant one though, was this all you just mentioned? this is a call on october 24, 2016 where michael cohen reached out to keith schiller, trump's body man now, when he was on the stand, prosecutors asked cohen, why did you need to speak with mr. trump at that point? on the evening of october 24. and he says it was to discuss the stormy daniels matter and the resolution of it. >> i'm prosecutors asked and did you have an understanding about whether during that conversation that you were moving forward to fund the deal? >> and cohen said yes. and jake, the reason this was so significant for prosecutors is because it's showing the jury that michael cohen is establishing that trump was looped in on this alleged conspiracy to conceal this hush money payment payment to stormy daniels but then when it was the defense's turn today, they too wanted to talk about this call and then you new evidence that suggests that at the same

time michael cohen testified that he was having this call about stormy daniels michael cohen had actually texted keith schiller about prank phone calls that he was getting from a 14-year-old. and then several minutes later, schiller asked cohen to call him and then cohen right? in the same minute. hold schiller and they had a 92nd phone call. so of course, the defense is asking, are you sure? but that call was about stormy daniels and not about this team prankster. and today cohen testified that in fact, part of the call was about the 14-year-old, but i know that keith was with trump at the time and there was potentially more than this and that call blanche said that was a lie? you did not talk to president trump. you talk to keith schiller. you can admit it. cohen says, no, sir. i don't know. that is accurate. >> so here documents, receipts appearing to undercut whether cohen actually spoke with trump about stormy daniels at this specific time.

>> and when he was pressed repeatedly by blanche cohen started to sort of lean back on that. i don't exactly recall. now the other thing that blanche was able to highlight jake is the fact that this is the first time that cohen and all these years he's been talking about this case, has ever mentioned this paul, so in the minds of the jury, this is something that could instill some serious doubt in michael cohen's credibility about this instance. >> i'm paula, what do we know about the defense donald trump's legal team potentially calling a witness, rob costello, cohen's former lawyer yeah. >> well, up until yesterday, i was repeatedly told that banca salah would not be called by the defense. that was surprising jake because of course, costello was the only witness that trump's defense team called when this case was before a grand jury. trump was of course, ultimately indicted. but yesterday, bob costello, a long time i'm trump aligned attorney who for quite some time represented rudy giuliani. and for a brief time represented michael cohen. he

testified up on capitol hill really trying to just shred michael cohen's credibility most importantly, saying that when he represented michael cohen cohen repeatedly told him that he had no evidence of criminal wrongdoing by trump. now he also outlines several other leinz that he says cohen has said publicly and on the stand. but we were told that there has some who subsequently been outreach two castellows since that appearance, there have been ongoing conversations about possibly calling him, but at this point, jake, it's not clear that he will be called as of now. all we know that the defense is going to do for their case is put on at least one expert witness briefly. and again, it's unclear if their client will testify, but there is a possible so ability they might call costello if they feel that they need to further undermine michael cohen's credibility. >> all right, very interesting paula reid, stick around. let's discuss with our panel and let me start with and control room. i'm starting with number eight here robert costello, bob costello, who offered, according to michael

cohen, back channel community occasion to trump using rudy giuliani as a middleman. cohen is saying that castellows emails and outreach. were part of a pressure campaign to make sure that he stayed loyal to trump it yesterday, costello testified before the republican led house committee on the weaponization of the federal government and what he said yesterday may provide some insights into what he may say. if donald trump's defense team does call him as a witness, which paula reid is suggesting might happen. so let's run a little bit of what robert costello, what bob castello told the committee yesterday. under oath what he tries to do is he picks out cherry picks, shirt and emails or text messages and tries to make them look like something else. the story he told yesterday was that rudy giuliani and i wish somehow conspiring to try and keep him quiet to try and keep him from flipping that's the

term we use in the trade for cooperating that's ridiculous and presumably, bob costello also has emails and texts to back this up. >> mr. brennan, let me start with you. if you were representing trump would you call castello as a witness absolutely. >> why the testimony he just gave apparently, if i understood it right, this was just in the last 24 hours he went in yesterday. >> that was in front of a paddle and said, almost everything cohen said under oath in the current trial about me is lie. >> i mean i think mr. blanche has done a fabulous job at showing empirical data of his lies. >> this is lying to this jury. forget the federal judge. he lied to the irs the bankruptcy court. congress. he's lying to this particular jury. it reminds me jake of that old saturday night live character tommy flanagan, john lovely said he was the president of

the pathologic are liars anonymous association or waze. yeah. >> this guy is absolute, once in a career fodder for cross-examination and mr. blanche hasn't let me ask you, sara, this phone call from october 2016. again, this is a new lie, at least a new accused or alleged lie as it were, in which cohen two days ago. and this is testimonies, policies he has never given before said this was the phone call where trump sat where i told trump the deal with stormy daniels was done, but then they have all this other evidence suggesting that at least some of that phone call was about a 14-year-old doing prank calls on him when he talked to trump's body guy, who then, according to cohen, handed trump the phone. >> well, it wasn't a particularly long call, which of course works again, 96 seconds, right? works against michael cohen. and there's the fact that all of the corroborating evidence around the call has to do with something totally different, which is michael cohen getting these prank calls or harassing

calls from a teenager. obviously, that does not work in michael cohen's favor. and the fact that they've already sort of set out this backdrop of michael cohen has a liar. michael cohen as someone that the jury who is watching this testimony shouldn't trust you, shouldn't trust him because he's lied before when he's been under oath and you shouldn't trust him now because oh, look, we've caught him in this again alleged lie and i do think you know, from our reporters in the courtroom, kara scannell and others, this does seem like it was the most moment. so far for michael cohen. >> what do you think can i think it was a good cross exam moment, but the mere fact that you scream at the witness doesn't mean that you've won the point on cross-examination and blogged people mistake that as the dramatic moment, meaning that has some substance to it doesn't. i mean, this is something that could be quite easily addressed on redirect from a jury standpoint, one thing to remember too, is the extent you see cohen leaning back in the chair or thinking to himself? not really sure that's actually not the hallmark of a pathological liar

about the logical liar doesn't reconsider the accuracy. they just like totally lean into it that may actually have the opposite effect will end jury. they may think he's actually thinking carefully. he is trying to be accurate. >> can are you saying that the jury might i don't know what's going to happen the jury might take, years and years and years of documented leinz ely is elijah about the leinz he told he lights a more and because he leaned back in his chair and blanche yelled at them, they may say, oh, we're going to wipe that away. i don't think so. no, not really. not because blanche, you owe them but this whole characterization of cohen as being like the worst witness ever it's just silly, bill. >> well, the worst liar ever she wears, that's even sillier there's so many more people in court give me one how about an enforcer from the mob whose killed, let's let's, let's use that. >> sammy, ivana, i wasn't in that case. i want to you know what like i know it sky is a

lying liar who just lies about everything he says and credibility is the currency of a jury trial. >> and people don't like to be kind i think he could lean back in his chair. >> he can sit straightness, share blanche can whisper, glands can yell, but those lives can't be denied. michael, let me ask you one of the things. >> one of the things one of the other witnesses that they might call that the defense is talking about calling as possibly an election law expert and just some of the this is what they're talking about right now in court. >> emil beauvais is trump's attorney and he's he's talking he was talking about discussing potential testimony of a campaign finance expert beauvais has focused on potential testimony, but the general definitions and terms related directly to this case, such as a campaign contribution. >> what does that mean beauvais says he wants to tell the judge what they're thinking of the testimony, so it doesn't overlap with any potential instruction that the judge will give to the jury when it comes

to federal election law, michelangelo, that's what the prosecution is. then starts speaking and he says, mr. smith, who is the potential so campaign finance expert, campaign election law expert says, mr. smith's may not testify about the interpretation and application of federal campaign finance laws explained to us what this debate is about why they want to bring an election law expert. >> sure. and you should understand all of this. was really litigated months ago by the prosecution and defense. there were a series fraser pre-taught trial motions that were filed specifically about can we bring this expert in and what can this expert testify about generally, an expert is bringing admissible information if he's giving information that isn't commonly known and understood and you can give a better understanding to it clearly, finance law, expert an election law expert would be really helpful to the jury here for that very purpose to explain to them what some of these terms mean technically.

and then an application to the whole case the thing is though that once you get the witness on the stand, you never know where he's going to go and the prosecution from what we're seeing now is very concerned that the witness, once he gets on because he's been allowed to heavily restricted though that once he gets on the barn doors is going to be open and everything is going to come rushing out that the defense wants. and so it's gonna be a lot of work for judge merchan. yeah. once this expert goes on making sure that the rules that he decided a while ago actually be you followed. >> all right. panel stick around. we are watching to see if the back-and-forth in court right now will have a significant impact on this case. plus two voices who used to be in trump's orbit will join me next. we're back in a moment how it really happened with jesse l. >> martin. >> sunday's at night on cnn, switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your

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more on monday, but they should be over by monday. and then the prosecution says they will have redirect. other questions from the prosecution for michael cohen to try to clean up whatever the problems exist now because of his testimony, he cross-examination testimony, they said that will take about an hour right now. there are deciding how much longer the case is going to go. the judge said they should they should be prepared. the prosecution and the defense to give summations on tuesday and says no decision has been made on trump testifying. that's the defense attorney merchan. judge. merchan says, if they wrap up evidence on monday, they will do the charge. the conference on tuesday and blanche says the defense could still call rebuttal witnesses if they want to. but if they do, they won't be long. anyway, lots going on on court is adjourned for the week. unlike we can see donald

trump looking at presumably some information, possibly quotes. he's going to read. he likes to read from piles of quotes. >> and as soon as he comes out and starts talking, we'll bring that to you live but until he does do that, let's bring in criminal defense attorney and former consensus on the apprentice. >> stacey schneider, as former as well as former trump white house communications director alyssa farah griffin. let me apologize to you, two ladies, right now ahead of time for my root interruption when it comes, stacy trump, attorney todd blanche finished the day pressing cohen on the 2018 statement cohen's lawyer sent to the federal election commission in response to a common cause complaint about $130,000 payment to stormy daniels. it said neither the trump organization or the trump campaign was involved in the transaction. where do you think blanche is going to go with that part of the cross-examination when they pick it back up on monday well, i thought this for a little while now and i still believe it, especially after what happened today during cross-examination of michael cohen where they created i

think a reasonable doubt as to whether that 2016 phone call happened where michael cohen said he reported that the stormy daniels payment was all taken care of. >> now, there is some doubt about whether that exists. so i think what the defense may have tried to do in their closing statement is argue that michael cohen went rogue on this one he made the payment to stormy daniel's on his own distance trump from it completely, and that this was michael cohen trying to get credit again, there's been a lot of testimony from the other witnesses who knew michael cohen and he's always looking for credit from donald trump. and even testimony from michael cohen that he wanted to be the bosses. good graces. he would report everything to him immediately. he he always wanted his credit. so as far as, you know, that statement you referenced they basically team i got injured to interrupt you. i apologize, mr. trump's coming out right now. periods. let's listen in well, thank

you very much i think there's a very interesting day, fascinated that it shows scan, this whole thing is he seems to be the way almost everybody, even cnn msdnc, they have so here drop the trial elie honig this is save he just would not have even charge this case this cation to the change in each other never been started. >> i guess me make less chambers lawyer newsmax. there's no law bargain security, non-disclosure agreement. there's not everybody has every company has out of concern for your marriage are protecting the family or any other reason, the common not this, monday, your ndas the manhattan show trial against president trump was a gross abuse of power it's a

this testing spectacle. she says energy clarify a some that's true jonathan turley, fox news judge, has failed to protect right. to defendant in requiring clary trump did not violate federal election law at all. i didn't i didn't violate any law is this scam bragg cannot prosecute federal election law. >> it's not a very serious fiction. >> doj declined to bring the action as you know, doj long time ago this case, it was going to be brought in which it shouldn't ever been brought should've been brought seven or eight years ago? it didn't do, that because they wanted to bring in red in the middle of the election and especially since we're leading and every poll it's a weird situation with judge has allowed prosecutors to refer to election violations and as you know, the federal elections

look at it and they didn't bring any thank it's under their jurisdiction. i was from jonathan turley, andrew mccarthy, nda's are legal in common. yet bragg alleges trump's was illegal i have no way illegal in it seems that drops crime by blue state lights when winning the election. that was my ghraieb. i wanted elections i'm supposed to win against hillary clinton and that's not a crime either republicans in new york, it's not a crime bragg wants to prosecute trump for federal okay. i'm finance crimes, something he has no jurisdiction. this is from andrew mccarthy, highly respected he's got no jurisdiction to do and that the feds who do have jurisdiction decided not sure. not to charge. they decide to adapt to to it. >> and looked. >> at this and decided not to do it misses bragg, who by the way one and john himself and then when i started running,

when i announced that i was running over, said that became again, this is a political person human events editorial board. >> this case is a joke as should couture. it's going to pop and left tell us that we'd been pumped i know what that means the series a glorified legal praxis seriously called into question impartiality of the american justice system justice is blind unlike this case, justice is not done would appreciate it if they do the right thing we would very much appreciated and do the right thing sean hannity, fox news how did they come to this legal theory shows there's a problem with our legal system. >> we supposed to believe it equal justice under the law and is not happening in america

michael good wouldn't the new york post highly respected media obsession about these partisan show trial of defendant donald trump is obscuring a far more significant truth about him. candidate trump has opened up his biggest lead and the presidential campaign polls of battleground states alone was such evidence and such other evidence as the enormous turnout of over 100 people in new jersey rally this weekend, this last weekend and dispirited concessions by joe biden, supporters signal that we've reached a turning point in the bank the white house. it's all a big disgrace. it's all so all political. >> jason cohen, the daily caller respected what it's told msnbc. >> the cases have increased their support for trump they went out to the motors and they say, we like trump a lot better

now because they see what's happening with this our of a, which i said i've talked to many people who falsely identified as a democrat a certain vote. i won't use the name. but said they have changed their political persuasion, independent and are now looking for all right to voting very forward to voting for donald trump who's a people that were democrats and they looked into mode for gang trump, trump's support with black i asserted in all seven battleground states by large, large numbers cnn chief national fares, correspondent jeff zeleny, said monday that swing-state voters tell him did discuss it and tired of what's going on here. >> there's no trial journals compton you are closed at this case, gun to an elected new

york state took report judge, elected the word james's or he or she would have dismissed your baseless political persecution or prosecution against trump however, acting supreme court justices, like one version are political appointees subject to political manipulation it's true while trump is charged with fraud it's bragg in is politically triple the handlers who are the ones that are committing andrew and katie turkey ascii, these high level lawyers, very, very prominent new york case against donald trump is drawing to a close but one critical aspect seems to be missing where's the grind is the two very powerful, very good lawyers i don't respect and mike davis highly respected. >> this is blake, the law fair and election interference by the radical democrats and

floating president biden discharge and the ones with the ones circling that beautiful, resolute desk in the oval office democrats do not advocate. >> she can as trump this is a witch. this is a prosecution without a this is all political. this is done to damage your political opponent like a third world country would jeremy hunt, fox news, this is about one man alvin bragg and puts his politicization over the rule of law. >> and the judicial system new york as gotta do something about what's happening because you're looking judge, ignoring a look at judge kaplan, what they've done. it's disgraceful. everyone's laughing at the new york system in companies are leaving, people are leaving, but major companies with tremendous taxpayer dollars and employed employees millions of people literally people are leaving the taking the accompanies that

they're all watching this case and they'll watch again, goran two they're watching kaplan thompson the biden democratic party and the sham trial and other abuses of trump our international scandal that harms american really does it really hard so i'm tom fitch are country's reputation is a shining city on the hill get star is now by political persecution of drunk now the whole world siso system is no better than theirs where a banana republic it's very sad story after story about how this trial is. wondered should have, as they say, never been charged, that should have never been broken and again if it was going to be brought, it should have been brought years ago they tried to rush to get it done before the election so that they can armies and they

can hurt their political opponent there, russian, well, this rush. there's no rights is trials take forever. but this one, they're rushing here. >> it rarely in the morning of relief in the evening now they've judge wants to extend the time periods. so we can get this thing done fast before the election. the spherical, nobody's ever seen anything like that influence the other cases to include in the civil cases, they all come out indirectly, directly. they come out of the white house in the doj i want to say just one thing. i've seen some very bad news come out on inflation, on the academy on the ev mandate electric vehicle mandate. and how crazy it is going to destroy our country. so crazy but i saw something today it's maybe worse than anything. president achieved chat. >> i know him well president putin of russia, i know him well. >> there right now together working so i'm lands where

they don't mind where they get together and do damage because that's ultimately what they're thinking about doing damage and you take a look at what president she said, did he fully expects to take taiwan? you made that statement today that's a big statement. and i'm sitting here in a nice box. i'm sitting here listening to a case that even people from cnn and msdnc say should never have been brought i've been sitting here for almost all and we still have a long way to go and i just want to thank well, the lawyers involved because they've been really working on all right and i'm spending a lot of time and i'm spending a lot of money, which is what they want their weapon to spend my time and my money and i'm willing to do it because ultimately we have to fight for the constitution thank you very much all right

presumptive republican presidential nominee, donald j. trump, the defendant in this case, speaking for about 11 minutes talking about the trial mainly and talking about his feelings of the injustice of it. the quoting quite a bit. according number of individuals who have criticized the trial, including accurately, some who had been on cnn saying that if it was me asking prosecutors that they would bring this case and a couple of them earlier today said they would not have brought this case for a number of reasons, including the credibility issues the prime witness, michael cohen, let's bring in cnn's tom foreman he's fact-checking what we just heard from mr. trump time. yeah. he flew through some of his greatest hits. another claimed that the economy is failing in this is about russia and china. they did say have a joint statement today about their growing relationship between them, but not exactly what he was saying. there he said he was leading and every poll he's not leading in every poll. and some of the polls he is leading in his leading by the margin of error he always

claims he has a great big lead and all of that. but when he started citing all these people and calling this a scam trial, which he does over and over and over again. most of those he cited sean hannity, jonathan turley, daily caller these are people who have lined up on the right supporting him from the right. and even when he cited, for example, our colleague jeff zeleny, it is true that geoff said he has heard from voters out there who are disgusted and tired of this whole affair. you can find those voters anywhere. what is not nearly as clear? how many voters are disgusted and tired of it, because they think donald trump shouldn't be charged. and how many maybe disgusted entirety of it because they're disgusted entire with donald trump. >> bottom line is last month, when we polled people at cnn here with a the ssrs, 60% of the people approved of the indictment of donald trump on this matter. >> now if that gets changed, is that somehow has shifted in the amount of time, we will also find that out. but the bottom line is, even though a lot of people think politics was

involved, a lot of people don't. so as usual, he's cherry picking a lot of things here. jake to support his case and ignoring things that may suggest it's not quite the way he presents it. >> all right? >> tom hartman, thanks so much. let's bring back stacey schneider and alyssa farah griffin alyssa are inside the courtroom. note that trump is has been paying very close attention to michael cohen's testimony today shifting his body around leaning and intently from time to time, looking at the evidence since being presented by his own attorney, mr. trump's own attorney, this is different from how he has been engaged visibly as it were in previous days with previous witnesses. what do you make of that? >> i think he knows he knows michael cohen. well, he knows michael cohen knows where bodies are buried and certainly has a lot of information against him related to this matter. and certainly others. i think it's fair to suggest. but today was probably the best

de for the defense. the prosecution is going to have a chance to redirect and to get this back on course. but there was that sort of john the floor or moment of learning that this 92nd phone call that michael cohen has spoken about may have been about something fundamentally different than what he suggested. i don't think this is wrapped up. yeah. i think a jury who's heard from all these witnesses has a lot to take in and decide where they go with this. but donald trump will we just saw from him, is what you're going to hear from him. uh, certainly if this is a hung jury or he's acquitted, it was a sham, it was a witch hunt. joe biden was behind the democrats were, of course, of course lies there, but he is going to use this as jet fuel for his campaign. and i think that it would work if he is not in fact convicted. >> and stacy sources tell cnn that trump's team might call bob costello i can cohen's former attorney to the stand, if they in fact intend to end, decide to give rebuttal witnesses in their defense what's your reaction to that?

>> well i'm not surprised because the defense apparently called him as a witness in the grand jury, and it is very very unusual for a defendant to call any witnesses in the grand jury. apparently, he was the only witness that the defense called. i understand that to be the case. you don't want to call witnesses in the grand jury because whatever that testimony is gets locked in and a grand jury proceeding is a probable cause vote. there's more than 20 jurors and the grand jury. they vote on whether there's probable cause to bring a crime. so it was interesting, there's a tie back with trump's statement just now to the press switch was exceptionally long, which to me shows that he thinks he had an excellent day in court because the better he does, the longer he speaks but he he he is relishing and the fact that he can use the opportunity after court to clean up his image of what went on inside. and again, it's a repeat. we've heard it all before, although

today it really went out there about how this is a political witch-hunt and the trials moving so quickly. i can tell you i've tried cases in that court in manhattan court for more than 20 years. they all go quickly. this is new york city. everything is on an expedited basis. the judges all move the cases along quickly. >> when you walk in that courthouse, there's not one discussion about anything political going on there, like even his statement. >> this is alvin bragg it's a political mechanism for alvin bragg to promote himself. alvin bragg didn't indict donald trump. he brought an indictment before a grand jury and those people decided, based on what they heard in that secret hearing, that there was enough evidenced to hands hands up an indictment so all these statements keep going on and on. the only statement trump is right about is that he called the courtroom and ice box and it is freezing in there. that building is so old and i would just tell him bring a sweater if you're gonna be in trial every day in that room and

alyssa and control room, i'm going to question three here now. >> defense attorney todd blanche rattled off a list of people that michael cohen has blamed for his wrong doing. a lot of this is in the context of the fact that michael cohen pleaded guilty to tax fraud. and then in a different courtroom, he said before different judge. he said he was not guilty. he only pleaded guilty for other reasons that he lied under oath when he pleaded guilty, he did it just to spare his wife from being charged and so they're issues about his credibility. there. and then when asked about it, he tried to tried to explain well, it was this person's fault and that person's fault. so here is how todd blanche one atom, blanche, you blame a lot of people over the years for conduct that you were convicted of, cohen, i blame people, yes. blanche, you blame your accountant cohen, correct? blanche, at times you blame the bank. cohen, correct. blanche, you blame federal prosecutors cohen? yes, sir. why don't you added judges and donald trump

to which cohen also responded? yes. >> how do you think this landed with the jury? alyssa i'm not sure it landed. well, listen, michael cohen had some very human moment. i'm when they talked about his exchanges earlier with his daughter when he did kind of fess up to his past, lives and owned it the best thing that he should have done. i think has started the day doing was owning that he is unknown life there. he is previously perjured himself. but i think that is attitude shifted as the defense got more aggressive throughout the day. again, we're i'm hearing this through transcripts. so how it actually played in a courtroom for jury could be very different but he pretty much confirmed for the defense what's been building for weeks on end, which is he's a known liar who points the finger at other people i couldn't help thinking of that line that hope hicks had in her testimony about he was always fixing things because he was the one who broke them. that's what it really felt like that he's somebody who there were problems that he would kind of create but then he'd go in and try to fix them. so it's gonna be hard to shake a reputation that's been built for him over

these weeks but we'll see what he's able to do in the days ahead. all alyssa and stacy, thanks to both. you appreciate it. let's get the panel here at the table to weigh in. sarah, let's talk about some of the many phone conversations that cohen recorded. how that's coming up in this case hold on though i'm going i'm going to take a little break, a little teaser for keeping here. >> we'll be right back time for growth funding from bus to credit makes it possible are easy and convenient process makes it simple to take the next step on your journey bus to credit funding. >> what's next? the all new temper p-adic adapt mattress was designed to help me aches and pains. >> a thing of the past because only temper material eases your pressure points in a way, no other mattress can for a limited time, save up to $500 on selection temporal p-adic adjustable mattress sets. >> while i'm a paid actor. and this isn't a real company. there's no way to fake how upwork can help your business.

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with everybody show powering progress i'm katie bell lilla in washington and this is cnn much to unpack from michael cohen's cross-examination on the stand today in donald trump's hush money cover-up trial. >> the difference fence working hard to undercut cohen's credibility, bringing up his lies under oath, even questioning the accuracy of his testimony in this current trial before this current jury are panels back, sara, let me go to you so cohen's testified that his previous lines under oath, we're all in an attempt to protect donald trump then the defense turned to cohen's tax evasion case, which of course had nothing to do with trump trump attorney todd blanche asked cohen if it's true he lied to a federal judge, quote, that because the stakes affected you personally, as cohen has previously testified, cohen says, yes. that's true. soon after that, blanche asked cohen, does the outcome of this trial affect you personally,

cohen says yes. so i guess the question is, what blanche is trying to introduce is are you lying now because this affects you personally as well? >> yeah. i mean, i think that that is going to be a question for the jury. there are a lot of credibility issues around michael cohen. i think that trump's team has done a good job of putting those on display this week. and this is just one of them. i also think the animosity that we've seen from michael cohen directed towards donald trump has got to be something that the jury is pondering. do you have a reason to be telling the truth, right now or is this about being vindictive? is this about revenge? is this about trying to stand up for yourself? >> so you've been you've been skeptical of the effectiveness of this trial. let me just ask you if you were advising the prosecutor right now. okay. >> how do you salvage this case? >> i'm not even saying it needs to be salvaged. maybe it doesn't, maybe the jury's ready to convict right now. who knows, but how would you salvage this case given what has happened to michael cohen on the stand today?

>> grad the lifeboats, maybe grab a misdemeanor if you can. this thing is imploding and it's interesting, jake, there's a great parallel that develop today. this case is going week to turn on. >> was the bad phone call, was the motive here, president trump trying to save his marriage or save his campaign. >> and now we have mr. cohen, who told this journey under oath. i called about stormy daniels now he's trying to hurt a 14-year-old child so it's a really interesting in parallel, what kind of think goes after a 14-year-old kid? i'll get the secret service. you ever hear call block. i mean, we hate mail all the time. just block them. i mean, this guy is a crumb and what do you think well, i think, you know, today's the afternoon, particularly proves the point he can never tell a lie the same way twice, but you're always tell the truth the same way every time. and i think cohen got caught bad on the stand at the end. and i think there's a lot of daylight there for not-guilty.

>> shan, what do you think the case is not imploding hi zinger prosecutors, i'd say rehabilitate him on a couple of points, including the phone call and they need to refresh his recollection to make sure that you can clear that up. >> yeah. >> thanks to all you really appreciate it. let's bring in trump attorney and republican candidate for missouri attorney general will scharf. to be clear, willis not representing mr. trump in the hush money trial. well, so sources tell cnn trump's team might call michael cohen's former attorney, bob castello, to testify. bob costello has said some pretty scaling things about michael cohen and his credibility. would you call castellows to testify or would you just as soon as the prosecution rests, would you say defense risks rest to they didn't prove their case? let's get this over with what would you do well, i think certainly looking at all the testimony and evidence that's come into this trial. >> so far. i think this is an open and shut case for a directed verdict. i think the prosecution hasn't come close to meeting their evidentiary

burden on crucial elements of the charge defenses and for that that reason, i don't think we should even get to the defense's case because i think any fair judge would enter a directed verdict here that having been said the team's going to make a decision over the next couple of days who to call, what to ask them about and how to proceed in terms of structuring a defense case if it comes to that, and i'm waiting to see what they do like everybody else i know. but what would you do? would you call bob castello i'll tell you, i think his testimony in front of in front of that congressional committee yesterday was when you look at his public statements, when you look at everything he said about his relationship with cohen, about the things that cohen has said about his relationship with trump it seems to fundamentally undermine the narrative that michael cohen has sought to establish over the course of his testimony in court. >> so i think he would be a compelling witness. i think there are plenty of other people who could similarly undercut aspects of the prosecution's case here who

else who else might you call keith schiller. i mean keith schiller could theoretically say about that october 24, 2016 phone call i assume the todd blanche has talked to him, but and assuming that what todd blanche presented is with keith schiller would say he would say, yeah, michael cohen called me, complained about some 14 in year-old that was prank calling him, and then that was the end of that. i didn't give the phone to mr. trump. he didn't talk about he didn't talk to mr. trump presumably that's what todd blanche is suggesting. what would you call schiller? >> yeah i think cross-examinati on is sometimes a little bit like dentistry. you pick and pick and pick. and then when you find a hole, you drill i think that's what we saw todd do with that with that phone call on cross-examining michael cohen earlier today? i don't know who i would call, but i think that the prosecution's cases a week here, that a directed verdict is certainly warranted. i think the jury could decide it without a defense case at all i have a dental appointment next week and i wish you hadn't put that in my head. you're graded todd

blanche, first day of cross-examination of michael cohen in a if you gave that an a, i can't imagine the grade you would give them today. >> was there any specific moment that you thought was the most effective for him well, i like to go back and read the transcripts at the end of every day so far i've just seen tweets coming out of the courthouse and the media coverage but it seems like with respect to that october 2016 phone call, he caught michael cohen and an abject lie. that's going to seriously undermine the credibility of any witness in front of the jury. seriously calls into question basically, everything else that he said in front of the jury in this case, i think that was a very interesting moment and one that i'm sure we'll hear a lot more about. >> all right. much appreciate it. thanks so much for coming in and talking to us today. trump attorney and republican candidate for missouri attorney general. will scharf, always good to have you on continuing with our lawn justice lead today, president biden asserted executive privilege to stop the us justice department from handing over the audio of his conversations with special

counsel, robert hur robert hur, who was the special counsel investigating president biden's classified documents case. that's a move that speaker johnson criticized president biden is apparently afraid for the citizens of this country and everyone to hear those tapes. they obviously confirm what the special counsel has found and would likely cause, i suppose in his estimation, such alarm with the american people that the president is using all of his power to suppress their release in a letter to house republicans, the white house council defended the decision to assert executive privilege to not allow this audio to be released. he made some stark accusations reading quote, you're likely goal this is to house republicans, to chop them up distort them, and use them for partisan political purposes, we should note that cnn has also sued for access to that audio. were believers and transparency here at cnn cnn's manu raju is live on capitol

hill. manu, the house judiciary committee voted to advance contempt proceedings against attorney general merrick garland for this mooc yeah, that's right. >> and it was the first committee to do that. the second committee will be the house oversight committee. it actually delayed its proceedings until 8:00 p.m. eastern tonight. so several members of the panel could travel up to new york to our to attack the prosecution against donald trump in the criminal hush money case. and in fact, in the house judiciary committee meeting earlier today when they voted along party lines to advance this measure, two of those members, matt gaetz and andy biggs didn't even show up because they were up in new york arguing against this prosecution of the forearm president. but nevertheless, this moved forward and the debate has broken down along party lines republicans saying this audio is essential, they said it's as important for the american public they here how joe biden reacted in this closed-door interview with the special counsel, overs classified documents, how we handle those classified duggan's and democrats say this is all for political

purposes, that debate broke out between the house republicans as well as senate republicans and democrats as well. let's but this idea that the special counsel can interview the president hi states, use that excerpt from that in his report and then our president can then claim executive privilege to prevent the complete report from being released. >> strikes me as an abuse of power and just bizarre exercise or controlled by donald trump's prosecutor said that joe biden did nothing wrong, release the transcripts that also showed that the prosecutor said he had a photographic memory. >> so there's no end that will satisfy republicans their impeachment inquiry is dead. >> there key witnesses in jail for lying to the fbi. and so this is really a lot. it's not oversight, it's overkill. prob if you wanted to follow up and

i went on and i asked eric swell about why not just show some transparency we want to be better for the president to be, just be open about this releases audio tape. >> he said that there's no end in his view about how house republicans would eventually proceed they said they will not be satisfied with the audio tape. they would ask for everything from the presence dental records to everything else under the sun. so that's the democratic position. the question two is how does the house democratic leader view the idea of moving ahead with contempt proceedings? for joe biden. he said that there's an uncertain for merrick garland. he said that is unserious move about exerting executive privilege. however, hakeem jeffries indicated that he has no position yet on this issue. he said that he wants to study this further before taking a position on the president asserting executive privilege. of course democrats sharply criticized present then trump, when he time and again use executive privilege to stymie democratic investigations when they were in the house majority, there's still also no

indication jake about the timing of a floor vote for contempt proceedings against merrick garland the speaker of the house, has not fully indicated exactly when they will come to the floor. and in this narrow republican jordan, he would have to keep all of his members in line, not lose a single republican vote depending on the timing of their vote, ensure that er, no absences as well. so a lot to consider as a speaker decides how to move ahead here, jake. >> all right, manu raju, thanks so much. appreciate it. much more discussion on this big story had plus donald trump just moments ago defending themselves outside the courtroom. will he do the same? on the witness stand? the debate over whether or not he will testify that's next you

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