hung jury. those are the options for care. >> or it could be a mixed verdict. there could be convictions on some counts, acquittals on some, and hung on some. you just don't know what it's going to be and they're not all equal, right? he didn't sign some of the checks, for example, i can see the jury saying, okay, well, he didn't sayyed in those checks weren't that down like erik on your side of those checks, so we can't hold him responsible exactly. that could be something that they do. so i think you're going to see some juries are very thoughtful and they will take each charge one by one by one, and if they're not going to just go all at once. so i think you might see a mixed, you guys are great. >> thank you so much for sticking by me all two hours of this the prosecution's closing arguments in donald trump's hush money cover-up draw continues now into their third hour, judge, juan, were sean a republican appointee. i should note, says he wants them finished by the end of the day and has indicated the jury could stay until seven or 8:00 tonight, complete trial coverage continues right now with my friend wolf blitzer, his next door in a place i'd like to call the situation

room. i'll see you bright and early tomorrow and around the world to a special report here in the situation room the trump trial today i'm wolf blitzer were following breaking news, right now. >> the prosecution in donald trump's criminal trial is getting the last word before the judge sends the case to jurors who will decide the former president's faith prosecutor, joshua steinglass, pressing on with his marathon closing arguments trying to counter attacks. that a star witness, michael cohen made during the trump team's summation earlier today. cnn's kara scannell has been inside the courtroom all day. she's joining us now. she's outside qarrah bring us up to speed on this climactic moment in this truly historic trial what prosecutor joshua

steinglass is now entering his third hour of these closing arguments in his focus right now is on the payments. >> this is the heart of the case. the repayment to michael cohen, and how it was booked in donald trump's company's books and records. so this is goes to the actual allegations are false so vying business records that trump is charged with, steinglass is going through methodically all the catch-and-kill deals leading up to this moment. and this is where he is now turning to these repayments saying that cohen was paid in 2017, his those payments ended in that year is though it did not get paid in 20 hey, 18 saying that this was not a retainer that cohen was working for trump as his lawyer when trump was in the white house because steinglass even telling the jury that donald student that michael cohen spent more time in cross-examination in this trial than he did actually working for donald trump in 2017. so really trying to knock down the defense's contention today that this was a retainer

agreement and that matters because trump is charged with falsifying these business records because the invoices cohen san the vouchers from the company's books and the checks all said the word retainer on them. that is why they're arguing over this point. and so steinglass is pointing out various reasons to the jury why they should project the defense's argument that this was a retainer agreement and that it was pure and simple, a reimbursement pointing to the notes that were taken by allen weisselberg calculating the repayment to michael cohen and also notes taken by jeff mcconney, who weisselberg instructed to handle the checks and the money's going back to michael cohen. so trying to focus on those let's do documents calling them the smoking guns in this case, that he is asking the jury to focus on. now he did spend a lot of time going into great detail about the catch and kill deals. the one involving the doorman at trump tower, karen mcdougal, the former playboy model, and stormy daniels, saying that michael cohen was involved in all these steps, but they don't the jury doesn't have to rely on cohen alone. we also

pointing to the phone the recording that cohen made with his phone of him speaking with donald trump about the karen mcdougal repayment, trying to direct the jury in different directions of where they could look at some of this evidence that isn't michael cohen and that's because trump's team spent a good portion of their two-and-a-half hours focusing on michael cohen saying that he is the gloat the greatest liar of all time, pointing out different ways that they say that he has lied of the prosecutors saying that the reason why michael cohen was of such use to donald trump is because he was willing to live for him. so really a battle both over michael cohen in this case and what the jury should believe leave or not believe from him and also this issue of the retainer agreement that trump's team says was in place, but the prosecution saying was false and that this was all about the reimbursements to michael cohen. the judge saying that the jury they're alert. i've been watching them all day. they've given equal devoted attention to both todd, blanche trump's attorney, and joshua steinglass for the prosecution.

eyes mainly locked on him with looking down at the monitors before them to hone in on some of the evidence that's been pulled up, excerpts of transcripts, text messages that are in a tiny font, really seemed to be very focused and alert. and that's something that the judge commented on, which is why he said that he spoke for the jury. they're willing to go tonight to finish this so they can hear the full closing arguments today. so the courthouse behind me usually closes at 5:00 p.m. it is still going strong as a closing, arguments are continuing with the prosecutors. steinglass still addressing the jury now, in this third, our wealth the summation continuous kara scannell in new york first, thank you very much. we're joined now by our legal and political experts at elliot williams. what stands out to you from what we're hearing from the prosecutor, joshua steinglass. >> so big picture early this morning. >> todd blanche, the defense attorney, came out with a pretty strong attack on michael cohen's kappa dr. saying, you can't convict the defendant on the basis of michael cohen's testimony. and i think many

people would say, i think that's absolutely true. you can't, now, you can convicted defendant on the basis of michael cohen's testimony and a documents with the signatures and handwriting of jeff mcconney and allen weisselberg, and the testimony of stormy daniel's, and other witnesses that have come a man the idea that certainly michael cohen's testimony is critical and it's important. however, it's not the entire case and just look at the fact that the judge, if he hasn't yet will almost certainly deny a motion from the defense two, to end the case right here because of the fact that a jury could plausibly convict the defendant. here now that's not to say he will, but there is plenty of evidence in the record even in spite of some of the credibility issues that some of the witnesses have. and i think the defense gather taking their time at doing the primary the prosecution is taking their time doing it, but they are noting that even in spite of some of these credibility issues, there is a quite full record here that could not necessarily well but cuddly do a defendant's conviction on krish khardori is with his former federal prosecutor, ankush. he's going

the prosecutor's going over all of these written documents that have surfaced sort of backup, but michael cohen's allegations have been how effective is this i think it was a necessary strategy. >> i think it's one that we i'll expect it right from the start. they tried to corroborate colon and present this is a case that has largely, you can understand based on documents. i do not think that is entirely correct. no sane prosecutor would have called michael cohen unless they absolutely had to. he's an essential witness and he is the only witness to certain conversations that at least the only witness that testified the starting conversations with the prosecution is characterized as essential to their case. meetings with trump at trump tower and the white house and so on. the jurors don't believe him. they think he's a liar and he may have light here that could be a hung jury right there. >> look, we don't know what the jurors think of michael cohen and i think we have to go back and remember six weeks ago that the prosecution brought on 19 other witnesses whose name was not michael cohen, several

of whom were really friendly witnesses to donald trump, david pecker called donald trump his mentor, said he wanted to help him when the campaign, hope hicks, who cried on the stand, and those witnesses and there were others backed up a lot of what michael cohen's case said. i spoke to what we have three legal experts here. i am not the legal expert, but a lot of the lawyers and some former judges, i've been talking to have watch the case, have made the point that this case has very strong circumstantial evidence, and they look at michael cohen as the narrator of it all the prosecutor, joshua steinglass is now saying the former president's signed quote by hand using his distinctive sharpie and so that's another little negative in there because these handwritten notes according to the prosecutor,

are the smoking guns in all of their allegations? yeah. i completely agree. it's that bank statement that the defense really couldn't overcome. they they bought out other reasons to doubt but they couldn't really address that. we have a bank statement that has the the handwritten notes and then the math that matches everything that michael cohen said happened. but $130,000 payment to stormy daniel's, the $50,000 to redfin. we know he didn't pay all of it to redfin, but that's what he said. and then the grossing up, it's all memorialized right there. that's not a retainer. and with respect to the checks, yes. donald trump signed these checks with his pen. and what do we know about the former president? we know that he pays attention to every penny. >> what he was certainly there just to add to that about for updates ago. not important over here. on the screen the joshua

steinglass had noted and plight specifically this point that it sort of remarkable that the math keeps adding up here, no matter whether you look at the checks, look at the testimony, look at witnesses, testified independently of each other. you all seem to and they all seem to end at this $130,000 plus $50,000 payments and so on. now again, that's not proof positive of a conviction here, but it's a note that testimony and math also seems to add up. >> it's nine glass just pointed out that no one could sign the donald trump checks besides donald trump? >> now, an argument could be made that to the extent the jury can split charges here, which would be a little odd, but you have because you largely have 34, the same thing. you could make an argument that the checks hand signed by donald trump could be treated differently by the jury than other ones that were not. it's an argument a, hard time seeing that, but still it's a possibility. it's not to clarify a little bit. sometimes

you have in a homicide case, the guy is charged with killing somebody, but also possessing a firearm. and in the room, the jury will trade the charges and convict on the lower one and not the homicide here you have 34 of the exact same thing maybe they're looking for a way to cut things up and there are trump signature appears differently on some than others. i don't know it's clear that trump was very concerned about all of his money. 50,000 or 100,000 or $200,000 was going out. he would know that what that was for. >> yeah. i think that that's very a very plausible reading the situation look i think at the end of the de, i think it's gonna be interesting to see how tightly the prosecution focuses it's on this question of the intent to commit another crime. we have yet to see the jury instructions on that on that crucial issue that could be a very pivotal point in this prosecution. i would just say i agree that the bank statement with all the math is strong circumstantial evidence, but there are two who provides the evidence that trump is apprised

of that that math, and that it was presented to him in any kind of capacity, michael cohen said it was his fixer and onetime lawyer also convicted liar who may have lied on the stand on direct examination several times. i mean, that's i think where this is really going to come to how the jurors assess cohen's credibility. i completely agree with jamie and we don't know what they we're now in the third hour of the prosecution's closing argument. you notice it's been a long day. yeah. >> look, the defense went on for almost three hours. we knew that the prosecutor was going to take a long time. it looks as if the jury has agreed to stick around till 7:00 or 8:00 tonight. they want to finish this part of it tonight. i do think as we've read the enry fro are in the courtroom, that there has been a distinct difference between blanche's it's the defense is closing

this morning and steinglass, as an example. yes. blanche went after michael calm, but there was the middle of his testimony that sort of seemed to wander into the weeds. he's talking about stormy daniels and david pecker. it wasn't exactly clear what the point was by all accounts, steinglass, who is apparently a very well-respected prosecutor, seems to be following an arc, a timeline, and has very clear documents to back it up. whether that works with the jury tomorrow. >> we don't know yet what they're really does seem to be a distinct difference one other thing, just to add to the point of tomorrow morning, the judge will instruct the jury and that will bring a lot of this into focus three updates that have just come through. well, they

all fit together and i can see where they're going now with their argument, this one right here, that testimony from trump aides that trump would hold onto individual checks and then to updates ago. bunking this idea that the former president was too busy to be in the weeds of this and finally, that donald trump was involved in at all, and we had evidence suggests that he was involved in everything. what the prosecution appears to be trying to do here is make the argument that certainly even if donald trump was distanced from some of the actions that gave rise the actions here, he wouldn't necessarily have been aware of what was going on now, again, that's all circumstantial evidence because you don't have a direct statement of donald trump's saying, i know you're paying a porn star to help my campaign, but there's plenty of evidence in the record that seems to suggest that well a reasonable juror could find that he was aware based on habit in practices of the trump organization, if they go into the prosecution, at least goes another hour or two with their closing arguments. is that going to help them or hurt them

with the jury, as i'm sure these members of the jury would like to go home. >> yeah, i think so, too. and, you know, earlier today when i heard that the prosecution would be putting on about four-and-a-half hours of clothes losing my immediate reaction was that's a terrible idea, right? like any one of us, how can we focus for four-and-a-half hours these days, you can fairly focus for 30 seconds. however, as we see the updates come in and the way steinglass is presenting this evidence to the jury, it's meticulous to your point. it makes sense. there's a timeline. >> it seems engaging enough that he's probably getting their attention and it's important. >> and he's breaking it down in a way that the jurors can understand. so i still stand by my original statement that four-and-a-half hours is a little too long. maybe he could get it down to three, but i think a longer summation is necessary. given the facts in this case, jamie's point from a second ago that were not in there and able to see how much jurors are buying any of this

now certainly it's bolded well as presented well, it seems to read well on these one sentence updates, but this is another argument for cameras in the courtroom so just here inside the courtroom, we're hearing about trump being a control freak. >> and the answer, being chased. >> right. because mr. trump wanted to retain control over his $80 cable bill because that's who he is. he steinglass says he's frugal. we have heard tests stem one like this over and over again from people who were not from witnesses who are not hostile to donald trump, from people who worked with him, not named michael cohen steinglass has pulled up excerpts from one of trump's books, reading again, testimony on trump's views on his finances. i think this is about where he talks about how you have to watch every penny. >> this goes to something that the three lawyers can talk

about, which is common sense with the jury it seems to me common sense is that trump would not be paying michael cohen cohen more than he needed to be paying him if he could have just reimbursed. >> mr. everybody standby. there's a lot more we're watching. we'll get more of the prosecution's closing argument straight ahead, and we'll also talk to michael cohen's former lawyer about the numerous mentions of cohen during both sides summations that a plus amanda defended donald trump in his second impeachment trial is here with us. we'll get his thoughts as the jury prepares to start these deliberations. stay with us. you're in the situation in one of the most active 22 seasons. you can't control what kinds of interventions can we design go inside the store. >> premiere of binding birth with liev schreiber, sunday at nine on cnn, with moderate to

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appeal to the jurors, right now. and this comes after the defense made an all-out assault on michael cohen's credibility during its summation, trump's lawyer are calling the prosecution's star witness quote, the greatest liar of all time or gloat as he called them, the greatest liar of all time joining us are michael cohen's former attorney, lanny davis selendy. thanks for joining us. the prosecutor, joshua steinglass, is emphasizing the evidence, calling these handwritten notes a smoking gun, and trying to prove he doesn't need even need cohen's testimony to convict trump. you think he's been effective well, yes, because the document doesn't lie people may be due, but documents don't. >> so here's what the jury can look at. let me simplify this case down to one question. did donald trump lie when he called his $35,000 a month checks personally signed to michael cohen, legal fees. was he lying

or were they reimbursements for a previous payoff to stormy daniels and for other purposes so i asked the un expected to hear the answer from the defense attorney. what was the uh, hundred and $30,000 and allen weisselberg's handwriting doing on that sheet of paper. what did it mean? will 12 jurors say? well, of course the one 30 is the same number that was paid to stormy daniels. those aren't legal fees is that the reimbursement for what michael cohen paid if donald trump lied about that issue, then i think the jury can convict him beyond a reasonable that just on that issue alone your former client, michael cohen, is still of course, a very central witness in this entire case. after todd blanche shut trump's attorney slammed cohen as the nvp of liars and the gloat glm oat, that is the greatest liar of all time. >> do you think the prosecution is now doing enough to try to rehabilitate michael cohen's

credibility well, let's just remember what a new york state supreme court judge wrote in a written opinion after trump's attorneys cross-examine michael cohen in a brutal fashion, justice bhutto as these defense attorneys have, the judge wrote after hearing that cross cross-examination, liar, liar pants on fire over and over again the judge wrote michael cohen told the truth so i would say that michael cohen's credibility was established after this quest cross-examination in another venue where donald trump was found to have committed financial fraud. but let me come back to the jurors. they are looking at a piece of paper, allen weisselberg's handwriting, the number it has 130,000 on that piece of paper what has the defense said? about that one? 30. they have said nothing because there's nothing they can say. the jury will use its comments and state wait a minute. one 30 is the amount paid to stormy daniels. nobody denies that one. 30 multiplied by two, so that michael cohen was made whole on

income taxes. and divided by 12 is guess what number? 35,000 dollars because the total was 420,000 divided by trove as james carville would say, about the economy, we would say about this case. it's about the math stupid. there's nothing about legal fees by weisselberg. that's the document that a jury could reasonably conclude. creates guilt and intent by donald trump. why would he lie and call them legal fees when he perfectly well knew he was reimbursing michael cohen, 12 times, as is sitting president, writing checks for $35,000 personally to michael cohen. >> work continuing lanny to watch the prosecution's closing arguments, right? >> now. they're not referencing hope hicks testimony, calling it devastating and saying she burst into tears because she realized how bad the testimony was for trump. what are your thoughts on that? hope picks a former top aide to trump to let me put myself again in the jury

room and by the way, if they acquit mr. trump, i will respect that verdict whatever the verdict is, i will respect doesn't matter if it's in wyoming are red state or new york city a blue state. so what will they say about hope hicks? the two questions in this case, one is where they legal fees. of course they weren't the payment that weisselberg wrote. one 30 was about reimbursing cohen for the hush money. the first question though, is, where's the money paid to stormy? and it was four campaign related reasons. who had said yes to that question? because if the answer is yes, then donald trump committed the same crime that michael cohen was sent to jail for hope hicks, a close ally, said it was all about the campaign. david pecker, a close friend of donald trump, said, it's all about the campaign. what has the defense attorney? he said about those two pro-trump close friends of trump witnesses. it was all about the campaign, whether you like it or not, federal law says, if you give money for political motivations beyond campaign finance limits, that's a crime in this case.

michael cohen went to jail for that crime and what the new york state prosecutors are saying is if michael cohen went to jail for that crime, then so should demand that federal prosecutors working for donald trump administration called. he directed michael cohen to make those payments for which he did the time. now it's up to to the jury to decide whether if michael cohen did the time then at least they should find a verdict of guilty for donald trump directing him to do that very same and see what the jury decides. lemmy davis. thanks so much for journeys. thank you. coming up, we'll have more on the breaking news. that's unfolding right now. the prosecution giving its closing arguments in this criminal case against donald trump up next we'll talk to a onetime defense attorney for the former president. that's coming up next every weekday morning, cnn five things has what you need to get going with your day. >> it's the five essential stories of the morning in five minutes or less. >> cnn's five things with kate

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it at walmart i'm pete mundane at reagan national airport. >> this is cnn key players in donald trump's hush money criminal trial are working overtime right now is the prosecutor keeps plugging away, aiming to finish his closing arguments tonight. >> our legal and political experts are back with it. that's right now to assess. let me get your reaction first of all, on kush to what we heard from lanny davis because you were listening very closely that some thoughts. >> yeah. i mean, look, he talked a little bit about the math and how simple the math is. and you just take the hundred 30 and double it and then break it up into pieces. there's a major part of the math missing from that account, which is the $50,000 chris that was allocated to reimburse a tech services company $30,000 of which michael cohen stole so that is not helpful fact from michael cohen's credibility and one of the things we were kicking around here is this notion that we've heard from time to time, that sort of documents speak for themselves or document can be a smoking gun as someone who prosecuted fraud cases, it is often not

true. first of all, you do need people to talk about documents and smoking guns are very rare. that's why the metaphor exists. we usually don't have what, you know, it's interesting just what we're seeing right here. the attorneys are now at the bench and not to make too much of too little that we don't know. but this is generally not a great sign in the middle of a closing argument or closing statement, it'll be interesting to see why and what exactly they're talking about here whether it is, it does not appear that there was an objection before at least we didn't report it, so that whether they're working out as scheduling point or something else as a general matter, no. attorney prosecutor, or several jurors nod. yes. when asked if they are okay to keep going with scheduling issue, it's like clairvoyance was to say, we're going to be here a little bit longer now. i i want to defer with a little bit with the argument that the mere fact that it's four or five hours long is itself a problem. it could well be a very compelling

five hours if you watch zack snyder's justice league, the superhero movie, it's four hours a decent movie. maybe not the best. you can sit and watch something for a long time. it's really on where the jurors are at any given point and how compelling and organized and frankly entertaining the attorney's arguments. it's interesting, at least because i'm sure the jurors who have been sitting there for a day after day after day, hour after hour. they're anxious for this to end. >> oh, yeah. i think they're bursting at the seams to go get into that deliberation room and start talking about it. all of the evidence has been in for over a week. recall they were sent home on tuesday of last week when over a holiday weekend and are now sitting through hours and hours of summations. so i think they want to just receive the case and start talking about to eliot's point. and i think i said this earlier. i do think the way the summation is being presented that makes sense by the prosecution. it makes sense. it's organized there. they're listening, i still think it's a little long, but

necessary. bill, listen, they'll turn their attention to that and then get into the room shortly. >> this is interesting here. they're talking now about the fbi execution of a search warrant that gave rise to any number of the questions here and the point is cohen knew where the bodies were buried. it was essential to keep him loyal. this is what steinglass is saying knowing that are making the argument or the case that michael cohen was so central to the trump organization for such a long period of years that he would have known the good the bad, and the ugly of the trump organization, including some of the factors that would have given rise to this case. >> he was so close to trump and very loyal to trump over all those years right? >> and to the point of good, bad, and ugly, michael cohen did some good, bad and ugly i mean, he was more a fixer. he was a self but admitted bully so to the point of that he stole money. there are certain things and steinglass is addressing yes. michael cohen

is a liar. yes. he stole some money. >> yes. he was also the kind of person that donald trump wanted around to take care of problems. but i think a big question is going to be the notion of reasonable doubt. and how the judge instructs the jury tomorrow also is that bar higher? when you're dealing with the former president and the republican nominee i'm not saying consciously, but does a jury, they're human beings. do they look at that a little more careful in front of the five of us here. and however many millions of people are watching, i'm going to tell you a secret nobody knows knows what reasonable doubt actually, it's a nebulous concept that judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, all have a sense of, but it's just it's sort of, it's some doubt, but i don't know how much and it's like more than 50, 50, or maybe less than whatever. but but no one

can really define it in plain language terms. now, the judge will given instruction likely tomorrow, explaining what reasonable doubt is, but it's very complicated concept in the law. >> you don't have krish knowing what we know right now with these 12 members of the jury, what's most likely unanimous conviction, guilty. anatomists will whereas a lot of, experts are suggesting hung jury, you get one or two. there are two lawyers on that jury already got one or two who disagree with everyone else. and then there's a hung jury in order to convict or acquit, you need unanimous yes. so i took a position on this last friday in column so i do think the odds of a prostate the prosecutor is getting conviction is good, probably more likely than not really. i think an acquittal is practically inconceivable to me just because would require all 12 jurors to vote not guilty on all of the counts and i don't want to try to put it attach a

percentage of this. i'll just say i do think it is well within the realm of possibility that the jury could hang particularly given how they handle this cohen stuff, i completely agree with jamie about this sort of intuition that may actually carry the day, which is that donald trump hired this man and he then proceeded to do all the things that he was hired to do, including throughout the investigation of the proceeding. but i think that's going to be the key thing they were just talking about a tweet from donald trump about michael cohen i believe we have it here. >> i don't see michael flipping in effect and putting in front of the jury two things here. number one, cohen's long history with donald trump trump in relationship with the trump organization. but i think this is a wink nod to potential threats, not, not saying it, not suggesting that the former president is threatening former employee of his, but just the idea of putting out a tweet when legal proceedings are pending saying, you know what? i don't think michael would

tweet. it's sort of it's a character statement based on how they got it in. i don't think the defense would have had a reason to object to it, but i think it's a powerful way of showing the relationship and i'll know steinglass, the prosecutor, is saying cohen never really trusted costello. can you really blame him? >> you saw costello testified it was not the final i missed our i think what do we call it a forced error to call him. >> i mean, some of the lawyers that de were even suggesting it would have been better just to rest declare victory, say they didn't make their case, and move on. i do think steinglass has a way of playing to common sense. so he reminded the jurors at one point that donald trump had lied and that was on the record about the reimbursements and also, here's something again, just common sense if this is about election interference, let's

remember the alleged sex with stormy daniels, whether or not it happened was in 2006? >> the payoff doesn't happen until 2016 when two weeks before the election, he wasn't so concerned about his family. >> all of a sudden, he's concerned about the election. >> we argument that you're making. all right. everybody stand by, stay, with us for more updates from inside the courtroom and the prosecution's final pitch to john sure we're going to hear from a former lawyer for donald trump. that's coming up next. we'll be right back russia. >> we're trying to spy on us. we were spying on them i this friday this is a war, but secret war, secrets and spies, a nuclear game premieres sunday at ten on see if you've never had a pretzel until you've had pretzels dot you think they'd give just anyone that domain 50

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i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon. >> and this is cnn we're back with a breaking news and the trump trial, the prosecutor turning in his closing arguments to a very controversial defense witness, michael cohen's former legal adviser, robert costello. let's bring in david shown right now, he was lead defense counsel of donald trump's

second impeachment trial david, thanks for joining us. what do you make of the prosecutor focus again on robert costello now, how much does that help the state's case? >> that's very interesting move i think robert costello could have been a home run for the defense if they made when they made the decision to call him. not sure they should have called them, but what they should have done was prepared him and that they didn't do at all. it was not prepared by the lawyers. that's a major failing. but probably the biggest thing that happened before testimony was there was a conference with the judge. in fact, there were two conferences in fact, the judge said, i wish you the prosecution would have given me your objections to his testimony beforehand, so i could have considered them, but the end of the de the judge entered a very limiting order about what robert costello could testify about. nobody told robert costello that i have never had a case in which the judge didn't ensure that the defense lawyers had made sure that their witness knew that he was constrained, and so that's why costello reacted as he did some of the objections

he shouldn't have reacted, but that's that explains why he didn't. it's really incomprehensible to me that the lawyers didn't prepare them for that or for his testimony. so he ended up not being a home run ford some points. i think if you're going to get into that as the defense would have gotten into that, then they had to show the relationship, the motivation that michael cohen had at the time, the urging that robert costello gave him to give up trump if he could. but i think that the prosecution is appropriately making some hay out of the thing can i can i just comment on the process for a bit and just what i would not have done that the defense lawyers did. >> all i have first of all, it's very interesting. >> i think the listeners all should know about the process. you know, it's different here they usually in federal court, the defense goes in the process prosecution goes, then the defense goes, then the prosecution goes again. and here the defense goes first and then the prosecution, if you believe in primacy and recency coming out of the block strong and finishing strong, it's an important thing to have in mind. i don't think i would have started with thanking the

jury and mumbling a bit if your theory of the case is michael cohen is the centerpiece. i think it would have played a compendium of prior consistent statements that came in, let the jury here, cohen convincingly saying something else, but i think they make a mistake. look taglines like gloat and mvp can be effective. i've had them effective, had the latin kings case in which i had to defend their witness, turn to the jury and tell them he was a master liar, and that was stuck with the jury. but here, greatest liar of all time, you don't need that. goebbels was a pretty bad liar or this is trump's liar would be the response to that. i think that those things are dangerous here. i would personally i think played the two lawyers to some degree. >> i'm looking for a hung jury in this case. >> i agree with the earlier commentator that i think chance of acquittal with this jury is impossible, virtually impossible but i think he play for a hung jury. and there are many sexy facts in the case, less sexy facts in the case.

sorry, that you can go with a lot of people are bracing for a hung jury right now let me get your reaction. david does something that literally it just happened in the courtroom. the prosecution suggesting that hope hicks, a former top aide to trump, burst into tears, right after testifying about a key conversation she had with trump because she realized how bad the testimony was for her former boss. what do you make of that? >> well, i think that that wasn't emotional part of the trial. i think that it looked the defense doesn't get to go again, but if they did, i think an answer to that is you know, hope hicks doesn't really know from a legal standpoint what's going to hurt and what isn't going to hurt. i think the whole idea of going against this person who she credits her entire career too, was an emotional thing for her that's perfectly natural, but i do think little things made a difference. one of the guests earlier spoke about this tweet. i don't think michael cohen is going to flip. >> that's an important thing to put just the use of those terms you know, those little things can make a difference.

>> i think they have to focus on some of the less sexy things, like what makes this a crime? i'm and legal expenses do we really prosecute someone criminally if the money is partly what we think of as legal expenses, could someone think from a drop-down menu that a settlement payment as legal expenses. i don't think we criminally convict someone if that's what it comes down to and that's why i think i disagree with what lanny davis at earlier with the one question i think there's some good answers to that. >> david, stay with us. i wanted to come back to you, but elliott give us a sense of what you see happening right now inside this courtroom. >> so they're going through a number of writings and social media postings from the former president, and they use the words a moment ago, trump's wrath speaking about like so for instance, when we have here like it says in the bible, an eye for an eye, one trump book excerpt reads, i think what they're getting at here is how the former president manage the trump organization. number one, demanding loyalty out of his folks and number two, taking i think they're trying also to

take some of the pressure off of michael cohen and his, some of his excuse here by saying he was merely carrying out the orders of a boss that everybody was afraid of and expected a certain kind of conduct and behavior. >> they go back to david, shown david, give us your reaction to that? >> i think again, i have to agree anything that they can do to take the attention off of michael cohen is probably a brilliant move i also agree though that's not true. documents speak to themselves and they always tell the truth. we cross-examined documents all the time but i think that it sounds like the prosecutors playing it smart. >> i still think they have to keep make sure the jury keeps a tie. their eyes on the ball, and i don't like the idea by the way, of speaking, 4.5 hours, it's true in the fourth hour, you might come up with a point that registers with one juror, but i wouldn't want to hear me talking for four hours before two hours. >> we had you for about 10:15 minutes. that was fine, david, shown thank you very, very much

for joining us. we'll continue this conversation down the road and there's a much more i had on our special report as we get more reaction to the prosecution's closing arguments and real time we'll be back in a moment in one of the most active 22 seasons you can't control a tornado what kinds of interventions can we design go inside the store the premier of binding birth with liev schreiber, sunday at nine on cnn allergies with allegro. >> they won't stop me nothing beats allegro. it's the fastest non drowsy 24 hour allergy relief live. your greatness. >> you've waited all week for this, mr. saturday morning. so rise and shine. your chariot awaits you didn't get a green works just to hurt you with the old gas mowers, feelings you got it because green works

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truck to 59583 before prices go up chasing life with dr. sanjay gupta. >> listen wherever you get your podcasts, we're back with our legal and political experts as the trump trial has just taken another quick break. the jury has left the courtroom for this break. the prosecutors length the closing arguments to the jurors will resume soon. they're not done yet. this could go on for quite awhile. yes, could go on for quite awhile now, right before the break, there was a little bit of what i think it's fair to say fireworks, even though that's some creative license here, because there was joshua steinglass had shown a prosecutor pardon me. the prosecutor has shown a tweet from donald trump that said, if you go after me, i'm coming after you all caps. not a pardon me. a truth. not a tweet, and it's an immediate

objection, which was sustained. now, we were chatting about this in the break is on cushman saying, you don't ever want an objection sustained during your closing argument, i think it probably threw him off and we were sort of musing here and welcome the other attorneys thoughts as to one, what was that already in evidence to what was he trying to accomplish by reading it? yeah. i was just confused. i don't know what the basis of that objection was. i can and imagine the prosecutor would be showing something that was not already admitted into evidence during the closing, but there is something that got the defense to their feet and the court ultimately sustained. >> so i was a little confused. >> i don't know if you just politically for for context, my understanding is that i i believe this did come up earlier in the trial, but that the point was that that was not about cohen, right? it was about the campaign's so the

implication that it was about cohen is what they were objecting to and he would have been allowed they would have been allowed to talk about things in michael cohen's in donald trump's relationships, open-ended. what was the pressure campaign or trying to instill loyalty? and michael cohen broad statements of threat, political threats probably would have crossed the line and unusual on kush, is it for the defense to cry out something is inappropriate and for the judge to sustain that objection. >> it's not during closing arguments. quite unusual. >> not that unusual for that during testimony, correct. closing or closing argument, it's pretty extraordinary. yeah. even during closing, those defendants will sometimes object precisely to throw the prosecutors often to signal to the jury that there's some sort of problem. it's rare for it to be sustained and it's not a great look as we say prosecutor, there was something earlier today where the prosecutors did not object in till the jury left the room, and that was when the defense

blanche said to made a reference to that you wouldn't send someone to prison for something. and then there was a curative. you can explain what a curious but there are things that the jury can't on here. these things and so they get thrown out. there's an objection. there's a curative, but it's out. >> part of what seems to have started this. all we're getting a little more color here that the prosecutor, the defense, opened up like a hole that a truck could drive through about stormy daniel's therefore, we felt it was appropriate to sort of clap back with this statement about if you come after me, i'm coming after you now, the judge has said, no, i think you've gone as far as you need to go here and you go any further? yeah. i don't go any further. >> trump has left the courtroom for a break right? now. they're taking another break. this the last break, the de they'll come back prosecution will resume the summation, the closing arguments yeah.

>> i mean, we don't know how long that will be when they get back, but i think hopefully there'll be wrapping it up in the next hour and then they'll jury will be released for the day and then they'll come back for the jury instructions tomorrow, and then the jury will finally get the case sometime tomorrow. >> after the prosecution completes its closing arguments. the next step is the jury instructions from the judge from the judge, i think they're going to be doing that tomorrow, actually, i'm certain there's no way they're going to be instructing or jury at midnight. so we're going to see that tomorrow when they're refreshed and that is really key because it's those jury instructions that's it's going to tell the jury what the law is and what they need to find to show whether the government has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt. and that's why we all kept harping on that for so many days. what did his final jury instructions look like? we don't even know judge merchan did not make them public and it's learning to being secretive about it. its many viewers may not know that the law is incredibly ambiguous

in all areas of our life. and judges and prosecutors and defense attorneys go back and forth in virtually every trial. i'm trying to fine tune how they are explaining the law and how it applies to the circumstances of the instant k. >> let's not forget jamie, that trump is facing 34 state felony criminal charges for falsifying business records and those potentially carry jail times. they do. although i don't look i can't imagine in this case that that would happen do you. want to just end with how many of these lawyers would be happy having two lawyers on this jury that we would have to are watching. we're watching all of this a lot going on right now to all of our viewers. thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room erin burnett outfront starts right now