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nitric oxide, support, blood pressure, and improve heart-healthy rush to walmart and find total bce. >> laura coates, live next on cnn close captioning is brought to you by tableau. >> watch, pause and record live tv subscription free. start watching tv for free with tablet well switching to tableau has really been a money saver without a monthly subscription was amazing quarter today at tableau tv.com donald trump's criminal trial goes into overdrive. time and the ball is about to be in the jury's court tonight on a special edition alarm codes live 12 new york jurors are just a few hours now away from finally delivering what they have spent weeks listening to one of the highest cases and

all of american history and tomorrow morning around 10:00 eastern, they're going to get specific instructions to follow from the judge four there then sent off to really talk amongst themselves and we all wish i do. we could be a fly on the wall, but we will have to wait for this smoke signal to know just what they decide and on day 21, yesterday, 21 of trump's trial, the jury is today got some final words to consider actually, they got a lot of words. it consider. do you realize that closing arguments lasted more than seven hours about three for the defense who went first and then nearly five hours for the process. isn't even an until about 8:00 tonight. >> now, one thing that jurors have to grapple what's rounds? >> well, a person you're gonna guess correctly when i say his name, michael cohen, how important is he trying to say whether trump is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? well, according the defense, they argue is credibility is so damaged that none of what he

said should ever be considered in the jury's decision todd blanche saying michael cohen, he is the embodiment, the human embodiment of reasonable doubt. literally. >> blanche went on. michael cohen is the gloat he's literally the greatest liar of all time, not much of it, yeah, glow there. bland sends that you cannot you cannot send somebody to prison. you cannot convict somebody. well, objection. >> the court sustained. mr. blanche saying you cannot convict somebody based upon the words of michael cohen now there was an objection and it was the right one to make because referencing prison was a huge deal. i'll explain why in just a moment. but the defense countered the prosecution's attack on cohen head-on with this steinglass, the person who is the prosecutor in this case said michael cohen significance in this case so that he provides context and hello to the documents. the phone records the texts, the recordings. he's like a tour guide through

the physical evidence, but those documents don't lie and they don't forget yunnan to say those documents, i get everything you need to know. you don't need michael cohen to connect these dots. but as the ultimate insider, he can help you to do just that. joining us now, former attorney for michael cohen, lanny davis. lanny. good to see you this evening. i know that you and i have had several conversations over the course of this trial we both expected that michael cohen would be a significant part of the trial and a significant can part of the summations. and today did not disappoint. i do wonder what you made of the way the prosecution and the defence over about eight hours worth of time laid out their case, talking about michael cohen cohen would you make of it well, first of all, i think both sides had great legal representation. >> i do think there's a

difference in the way the jury heard the presentation between labeling and character attacks on making the case as if michael cohen is the indicted accused person versus looking at hard evidence and documents that can't lie, that established the guilt on the two charges, and those two very difficult choices for a jury to make because they will be influenced by character and labeling versus evidence i didn't centers in front of them but let me at least try to simplify my view of this, laura, by just basic questions the jury has to face. that are factual questions and i'll trust their decision because i believe in the jury system, whether they acquit or convict or rather they're split. question number one, i think is powerful in favor of the prosecution did donald trump have political motivation to buy the hush money method to

keep stormy daniels is a fair quiet. was it politically motivated? now, if the answer is yes, you may not like the statute that cause that a crime, but it's a crime and i can tell you it's a crime because michael cohen went to prison with federal prosecutors who worked for donald trump calling it not only a crime to give money to keep somebody quiet with bad information that one candidate may not want voters to here, actually, trump's prosecutors called that crime and impairment and accuracy. >> but what's number two? i want to hear the number two. >> well, number two is did donald trump lie when he called the $35,000 a month checks to michael cohen? legal fees. if the jury believes that he lied, then that's the motivation for the false booking which federal prosecutors working for donald trump said there was a false booking that call them legal fees. but was donald trump lying when he called them legal fees? and so my question that i think the jury will have to answer is when michaels

statement is weighed against allen weisselberg's notes, it's allen weisselberg's notes that speak louder than michael cohen's version his notes say $130,000 as part of the equation that led to $35,000 a month checks by donald trump, $130,000 cannot be legal. manny, we're not going to overtime each other. i don't want to have a conversation. i'm going to interject. thank you. >> so when you're talking about allen weisselberg's notes and this is important product, the actual, the audience is seeing that on the screen right now, are you raise these two points? >> the crux of the issue of course, are 34 counts of falsified business records. they have to indeed prove what you just talked about. in terms of falsified records. but that weisselberg document laying out the $420,000 reimbursement, $35,000 a month the defense tried to suggest that this was not as damaging as you suggest, because michael cohen padded

part of the expenses. he lied about what was owed to him from the polling in company or that he submitted falsified documents, or perhaps even more importantly, that allen weisselberg's absence is a huge seed, a reasonable doubt how should the jury have seen that? >> okay. let's just be simple. i'm sorry. i went on too long, laura, my apologies. $130,000 is written on that document multiplied by two to make michael whole for income taxes, $130,000. the jury has already concluded, in my opinion, was to pay stormy daniels to be quiet? it was not about legal fees. so has the defense explain the $130,000 number on the weisselberg notes as to him being absent everybody on that jury knows how close weisselberg and mr. trump were the defense does not deny that mr. weisselberg chose not to testify. he is in prison for perjury because he is so close to mr. trump, that will be the

jury's fair inference, and that's up to the jury to decide and respect that. but the one 30 i would repeat to lord, nobody can say that $130,000 was for legal fees unless the defense can say that and persuade the jury that $130,000 paid to stormy daniels to keep her quiet, was for legal fees. that's evidenced beyond a reasonable doubt, in my opinion donald trump's guilt. >> lady, was i don't suppose you've had a chance to speak with michael cohen at all about how he views the way he was characterized in this trial very, very briefly. >> no, i haven't i've deliberately left michel alone. it's been a very difficult time for him to hear the word liar, liar, liar, liar. when it says if he's the one that is on trial, i believe that the prosecution had it exactly right when they defense tried to turn this into a trial about michael cohen, whereas the fact is the fact is and it's an irrefutable fact that michael cohen is reading a book as a

narrator confirming documents that speak for themselves. you cannot say someone has a liar when they're reading a book, confirming a narrative that's what the prosecution said today. and i think they lay david. >> thank you so much for joining. thanks for speaking with you again. thank you so much. thanks for joining me. now, former federal prosecutor, at least i'm sensing a little commentator and former trump attorney tim parlatore. cnn legal analyst, karen friedman, agnifilo, and karen as counsel for a firm that represents michael cohen, but she does not have any contact with him specifically, she does not work on his case. also, horn federal prosecutor gene rossi is here and law enforcement reporter for the washington post, devlin barrett, who was in court today. i'll begin with you, devlin, because to land is 0.1. he talked about political motive, political motivation is being the most important aspect of this case, which of course speaks to what was the incentive behind paying off stormy daniel's. the other part was that michael cohen was in the words of the prosecution been a deflection focusing on

him was trying to deflect away from the attention of what the underlying crimes where i want to know how this was reading in the courtroom. we weren't able to watch the presentation by either council. was it the utricle where they subdued? tell me about their mannerisms in delivering their closings. >> yeah. i wouldn't say any of it was subdued. i think todd blanche, the defense lawyer, got a little more heated and a little more emotional at times calling michael cohen as a liar, a perjure, and essentially saying he he's he's the one thing he's quicksand to a case you cannot build anything on it. >> the prosecutor was a little different. he was also emotional at times, but he was more biting and controlled and how he delivered his lines there was there were a couple of moments where he made specific points about cohen or i noticed one of the jurors was nodding along an agreement and i thought that was interesting that he seemed to have at least the agreement and endorsement a little bit of one juror but

overall, look, were in some ways where the same exact place we started with, right? if you believe the papers, you're probably leaning toward conviction. if you have serious concerns about michael cohen, you're probably not leaning toward conviction. that was the argument that was laid out by both sides. they're both just coming out the same facts from completely different ends are really important. >> four, i want to bring in my panel into the room as well, because when you talk about the way the defense began, of course, in new york, it might it's very different than what happens in television. we're talking about this, this morning. the defense goes first for their closing arguments and the prosecution has the last word, if it were federal court, it would be the prosecution having the first byte, then the defense, and then a rebuttal trump was angry about this, knowing that he was going to not have the final word here, but they the defense wanted to talk about that at quicksand argument that this entire case rises and falls with michael cohen. and if that's the case that the prosecution has not met their burden where they affective i think that they

were effective in that. i think that there was a lot of extra stuff that they could have left out, but in making the point that michael cohen is the linchpin for this and really focusing in on the meeting the alleged meeting between trump weisselberg and cohen that's the one piece of this case that is a necessary element that there's no documentation for and they've corroborated they're going to tell you they have the notes and the notes. >> the notes absolutely. corroborate a meeting between al weisselberg. am i good call but they don't corroborate whether trump is there, whether trump was informed whether trump agreed. and the only way that you put donald trump in the room is michael cohen's board otherwise, you definitely have an agreement between michael collin allen weisselberg. >> them are defense sorry about that. >> we just saw on the screen. was notes from mips, mr. mcconney, who is on the right. these are notes that he took referencing his conversaon with allen weisselberg. they

both add up, although it is chicken scratch, karen, they both add up to $420,000 is the amount of money to repay. we know from the testimony that prior this was a padded amount for michael cohen from that pole pulling entity to try to buttress the credibility of trump. but when you look at the fact that connecting the dots, there has been a lot of information about michael cohen, about allen weisselberg. was there enough from the defense's perspective to connect donald trump? >> look, i think it's very there's definitely argument to be made on the defense. sayyed, that there are weaknesses in the case, that the only thing placing donald trump in the room is michael cohen. and how can you trust? to his worried that there's yes, there are phone calls between cohen and trump and yes, there are other things, meetings between them, but to know the content or the substance of it, you have to rely on michael cohen and i think the problem i had with

the defense summation was you didn't get to that until the very end. that he spent so much time on things that i thought were irrelevant, like whether or not they're whether or not trump had an affair with stormy daniels. what does have to do with anything that he there was a payoff. right? there was a hush money pay off whether it's because they don't actually have to prove whether that was true, just that there was an incentive to pay her exactly. >> and so i thought that was just strange because i don't think anyone on the planet believes that they did that. donald trump is paying $130,000 grossed up times three because there's a photo of donald trump on a golf course we're standing next to stormy daniels. i think the whole world believes. so. why are you even making that argument when you don't need to? and i thought the defense summation spent a lot of time on things like that that they really did not need to argue about. another thing they said was was there's no crime. well, there's definitely a crime. but if our the defense attorney, i'd say but michael cohen committed it, maybe even

allen weisselberg committed it. donald trump had nothing to do with it, right? so they were just i just kinda thought i don't really understand why they're going doing the strategy they did at the end, i thought they did well and argued what they needed to argue about cohen and there's a lot you can argue about cohen, but they didn't get to that till the variance. oh, they did get you at the end was to say that you cannot send him to prison you cannot connect on michael cohen's. we're at that gotten objection. it should have many that you cannot send somebody to prison. you cannot make somebody based upon the words michael cohen. now, elise, todd blanche is a former prosecutor. >> he knows full well, the inappropriateness of that comment because it's not the job of the jurors to decide a sentence. >> what did you make of that moment? >> yeah, that was highly improper and having that objection sustained was obviously correct by judge merchan pattern, jury instructions have wording to the effect of what you just said, which it is not for the jury to consider punishment that is for the court todd

blanche knows that this was not a slip of the tongue. he knew what he was doing. yes, judge. more sean, give a curative instruction to the jury, but it's like a tube of toothpaste once it's been it's out of the tube. you can't put it back in and the jury heard it and yes, he was a former federal prosecutor and he knows that. so he he knew what fact it would have on the jury and now they're going to think, oh geez, well, i might have been convinced, but he could go to prison for this and maybe they don't even realize how influenced they have become. but it's definitely a possibility. so he knew what he was doing and it's unfortunate for the prosecution really, you've been on both sides of the courtroom would you was it improper for this defense council du in this way, number one and two? what do you think his motivation was? was it trying to suggest as a leases is articulating here that it was about the fear of a juror feeling nervous or was it politics as well?

>> i think it was politics and i think donald trump may have been a little bit behind this was it improper absolutely. and i'm not i wouldn't be surprised if the judge makes a referral, a bar council, really, i had done that and eastern district of virginia, i would have been cuffed and every attorney knows this. but here's the mistake that todd blanche made. his thinking a jury is going to be affected by this. i disagree with anybody who says there'll be affected with all due respect there are two attorneys on that jury, and those who to attorneys probably haven't done criminal navy, but they know that you cannot mention that a person will go to prison if you find them guilty. so just like calling costello was the last witness they overplayed their hand and i think they offended the two attorneys may be more that are on that jury, but is it improper to do what he did? yes. >> they maybe on the one hand,

if it had been referencing a cooperating witness about what they are testifying to and why they were not going to have a penalty. but imagine a death penalty case instead of the jurors thinking about the burden of proof, are now thinking about what decision they will make that might have an impact on other person's life. >> this is part of the reason people are objecting and rightfully so standby. >> i remark come right back. there's next a marathon mike i'm blinking a marathon of nearly five hours for the prosecution's closing arguments and they put a lot of focus on a key witness and it wasn't michael cohen. it was hope hicks why they hope her testimony was the nail on the kopan plus robert de niro's appearance on the mean streets that sayyed the manhattan courthouse and guess, there was talking to him donald trump wants to destroy not only the city but the country, and eventually destroy the world still trying to find a cheaper price for that hotel. i'm so

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the federal court in washington. >> and this is cnn the prosecution wrapping up their closing arguments in the hush money trial after nearly five hours, prosecutor joshua steinglass calling the testimony of hope hicks, trump's longtime trusted aid devastating.

>> remember that hicks told the court that trump said this about for me daniel's, and the story that it quote, would have been bad to have that story come out before the election steinglass saying hicks quote, basically burst into tears because she realized how much this testimony put the nail and mr. trump's costs fed my panel is back with me. karen, you and i are both in the courtroom that de when she started crying. i think we see things differently though i saw her as being generally overwhelmed by the entire process and much people were very surprised that she began crying. it's floated out to that final statement that she made it almost seemed to be lost on her or the jury. you said something different though that really was the nail in the coffin. why? >> yeah. i look for me. i try to experience things the way the jury would experience them. and so i heard hope hicks talking about she was on the one hand saying things favorable for donald trump, that he loves his wife, he

loves his family. he also worried about min milan, yeah. >> yeah, exactly. but on the other hand, i think overall was honest and she had to say what the truth was and it just the way it felt to me was exactly how josh steinglass described it, which is she had just undeniably said, of course, he this was about the election and he said to her, he was glad that this that this didn't come out before the election. and that's when she started crying and prosecution sat down and the defense attorney got up there and ask some question like, what what's your job description or some innocuous question and she burst into tears. and to me it just felt like, wow, she just realized she just put the nail in the coffin for donald trump. it was really powerful that's how it felt to me as someone who doesn't know, believe it or not. i don't follow as much as it seems like i must i don't

really know hope hicks or who she was or who it was just clear that she knew and was close to trump and that she was trying to be honest but at the same time, she couldn't deny that this was the truth. >> again, i saw her as generally overwhelmed by this whole process seem to be voice trembling throughout the entirety of the conversation, ducking around the foreign president. >> and yet, the strategy would have been, had i been the prosecutor, if i believe that it happened, i would have done precisely that. >> i would've sat down and not kept going because i knew that that would have been the moment i wanted to linger but the prosecution they didn't sit down after an hour or two or three, or four, or five hours today? five hours, tim, to summarize all that came in today, i wonder how that plays to a jury. does that make it look like you're trying so hard to explain that you're losing your persuasive credit ability i think so. >> i mean i love a prosecutor

this long-winded, the wants to go on that long because i think it always helps me as the defense and it's something that i even previous a look, they're gonna go on for very long. long time. but the stuff and the more time they spend on all of this other stuff and not talking about the main issue, the more you know that they have a problem here. and i think that when you do go on for a certain level of time, it sounds to me like the jury was paying attention because of the gravity of the case, but i've heard from some people in the courtroom, they said, the longer steinglass went on, the more chances for acquittal went up so it is something where you have to be concise and you have to be respectful of the jury's time and the longer you go. you water down the arguments because ultimately, whether you're going to convince the jury at closings, that's one strategy, but the other thing is you're arming them with the arguments that they need when they go back to deliberation and when they want to convince the other jurors to come over

to their side. if you're giving them just so much stuff. i mean, so many attorneys just they feel a compulsion to cover every single document, every single little piece because they they're afraid that they're going to sit down like, oh, i forgot to talk about that tiny little piece, but it's not always helpful. >> well, and that spirit gene, when you look at this, i mean, especially they need to rehabilitate michael cohen. there had been a lot of attacks on him and his credibility throughout the course of it. and they also had to follow in line what they had to prove. this is a falsified business records case. it's not a sex case. it's not a case of what my goal we'll call it actually being in the defendant they had to try to prove that there was a valuable contribution given and that end, josh steinglass made the case that the catch and kill scheme could very well be what got trump elected. and here's what he said. it turned out to be one of the most valuable contributions anyone ever made the trump camp i'm pain. does that land to the jury knowing they have to prove what they have to for falsified

business records. >> absolutely. he is elevating this case from just the hush money case. to how it affected greatly possibly one of the most important elections we've ever had and i want to compliment the prosecutor on this. he did he did a couple of things that i thought were very important one, he went through the documents and he went through the timeline because that timeline from october 24th, october 28, the text messages, communications, that is the heart and soul of this case. and he went through that very thoroughly, the second thing i would like to compliment him on is he he reenacted some people thought it was a gimmick i liked it he reenacted a 96 minute second. second. that would be along that would be a wrong when it got bowers longer, that would be done in six minutes. >> but the 96 seconds, not minutes, but he reenacted that

that moment and i thought that showed the jury one human eyes, him. he actually had the phone towards his ear and he was showing the jury that you can talk about a lot of stuff in 96 seconds, not minutes. and the last thing he did was he focused on castello and i think the biggest mistake that the defense made is they called costello is essentially their only in last witness. and i thought he corroborated michael cohen because they were sort of doing a catch and kill with michael cohen and trying to train a brow vm well there's the bigger picture here. >> is whether they prove their case even in light of all the nuances in the minutiae of everything at the end of the day 34 counts of falsified business records. and to quote the prosecutor, we didn't choose michael cohen to be our witness. we didn't pick them up at the witness store. the

defendant chose michael cohen. is this fixer because he's willing to lie and cheat on his behalf that resonate only the jury will know. thank you so much, everyone up next robert de niro attacking trump outside the manhattan courthouse after going there at the request of the biden campaign, but we'll his chaotic experience enten appearance hurt more than it helps in one of the most active tornado seasons you can't control so what kinds of interventions can we design go inside the store the premier of wine and earth with liev schreiber. sunday at nine on cnn artificial intelligence is transforming agriculture advancing lifesaving health care, and strengthening small businesses. this game changing technology is supporting every sector of america's economy

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easy. get started today, accustoming.com. >> i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon. and this is cnn for weeks now, president biden as barely had anything to say about donald trump facing

criminal charges. >> his campaign taking his lead and staying quiet for the most part. today, that all changed the biden campaign, holding a press conference, right outside i have the courthouse featuring robert de niro. >> end. he wasn't alone. >> he was flanked by two police officers to help defend the capital on january 6. >> harry dunn and michael fan-owned check this out i love this city. i don't want to destroy him. donald trump wants to destroy not only the city but the country and eventually he could destroy the world. that's the tyrant he's telling us he'll be and believe me, he means it well, how was done arrow received well, things got ugly as he clashed with trump's supporters when he was leaving and a classic new york desktop full of purses and insults trump sun making sure to give his opinion as well. >> here's don junior this is a

political persecution that was evidenced today. >> today by the biden campaign themselves holding a rally here they bring in robert de niro but you also had republicans having rallies outside the courthouse as well and janeiro last i checked is actually not an elected official. >> so who's right and who's wrong and the conversations and the vantage point they bring and more importantly, will either message win over voters or will it backfire with me now, leanne caldwell, anchor for washington post live and coauthor for washington post early to o2 newsletter from michael singleton, senior fellow commentator, microtubule, a former trump white house communications director, and lindsay johnson, a former senior adviser to the biden 2020 campaign. alright, i'll ncaa, you heard my take and that both have done political rally is outside one involves speaker of the house, one involves robert de niro, not equal not quite equal, but i think the reality here is

having rapid narrow, they're actually gets under donald trump's good, right? because he used to be this big guy in hollywood. he's supposed to be the king of new york. robert de niro is a big guy in hollywood mainstay of new york. and he's going directly after donald trump. and this was actually a really good move, i believe on the biden campaign's part, because democrats want to see a fight and they want to see it coming from the democratic side. and we don't want to have politicians involved the most and do the same thing that the trump candidacy is doing and intimidating voters. but having robert de niro and surrogates out there making the case, that was a strong move from the biden campaign i would plot it. what do you think oh, i'll take the opposite view on this. >> i think it was unforced error by the biden campaign. frankly, they took robertson narrow and turned them into sideshow bob out there with all of the new york's finest that have been gathering every day of this campaign at some point.

and you saw it with donald juniors talking of political persecution the trunk message is going to be whether there's an acquittal or hung jury or there's a convention that this was nothing but politics. the biden campaign kept out of it for 20 days of the 21 days this trial has been going on at the last second that come in i view that as weakness that they are at some point trying to figure out how they can turn their ship around. >> and so they threw robertson arrow out and i think that's a good point. >> i mean, why get involved in at the last minute when you didn't use your campaign sat thing up until this point, do you mean verdict really remind those strategically, if i'm going to send someone to new york to comment on this from the political perspective i'm looking at the data and figuring out who are the best representatives to reach the groups that i'm struggling with, the most, someone who's younger, maybe someone of color

to >> ben behind in almost every single pole that there has been this cycle the trump campaign and trump surrogates have are saying this is proof that this is weaponization of the justice department the trump campaign has been saying that for months and months, anyway, something that the biden campaign was fearful of playing into so why not hit back? >> is their response. now, maybe a little too little, maybe too late, but the fact that it's not going to change the argument at all from the biden from the trump campaign. so why not play at the same level just a great on this as being desperation. >> i actually think this is listening to a base that is a lot wider than older white men. and it's actually listen to a lot of people who want to

support president biden openly, who want to see folks fight back and rather robert de niro speaks to a lot of folks. listen, he's a lot of people i wish she spoke to me. >> i like robertson there. i'm going to get the politics. i want to talk to you. yeah. >> hey, here's another hollywood stars who through well, let's timing the timing of it. >> we can also talk about where day or so away, maybe from a verdict wondering why they didn't come out later, but there's another hollywood star who is run their support behind donald trump. >> listen once you think of trump, i think i'm going to vote for him really. >> yeah. in the next lecture, yes, i am. >> are you ready for the blowback? >> well typically come well, i think this election and everybody's got it. >> i think they take a side or whatever, but it's it just seems to me he makes sense. i was ready not to vote for trump

until >> in an upcoming film. so that the reagan say that or no, go ahead. what's your oyster thought about that comment when morgan goes, are you ready for the blowback? i mean, i think that tells you everything hollywood's afraid to say what they think and every once in awhile somebody comes out and says you he's buddies, mine i think that speaks to where a lot of americans are telling you i wanted to be clear. what is that saying? i want to understand more about is it that that that personality be i like his policies. what is it? no, i think it's a pox on both the houses that this the government's broken and it's better to take somebody that's going to throw some punches in

there to fix it, i think is what mr. >> quaid is saying. >> celebrities were not move the needle or the other. there is substantial political data from several decades on this fact. if you want to talk to the american people, um, went to linz, you have surrogates out there, but try to get people who are more relatable to the average person's plight and struggle that's how you get people on your team, not these rich millionaire celebrities is part of the point though, that they are voicing the frustration if in the way that the prosecution stay late at michael cohen as the narrator of a story that the fact that it's somebody narrating a grievance is not what's supplying the conversation? >> i mean, i suppose laura but but but again, i don't think this trial is going matter to the average and the trouser i'm talking about that is the entire that's trump's campaign synthesized in one statement, right? >> there is grievance. grievance politics the victim.

and that's why we've seen new york times had a great story today about how trump is now surrounding himself and trying to play the criminal. he's kinda playing the part now and this is something that has proven effective because people feel like he is the victim and they want to, to they see themselves in it as also victims. but it's also interesting trump also use to surround themselves with victor or with criminals. anyway, they just hadn't been charged yet michael flynn michael cole when, et cetera. etc. and now he's now surrounding himself with people who have been accused. >> i just wonder about the narrative that suggests that robert de niro is presence next to two officers from the january 6 capital events that that justice that says and confirms political viewpoints are published and politicization gives me the justice department, none of them are a part of it at all any longer. so i failed to understand that connection, but

there's always tomorrow. thank you so much, everyone. ahead. sweeping new lawsuits filed by families of uvalde victims they accused instagram, a gun maker, and a popular video game publisher of grooming the shooter the lawyer representing the families is my guess, and i'll explain the lawsuit next. >> russia for trying to spy on us. we were spying on them i'm sorry, frank this is a war, but secret war. secrets and spies, a nuclear game. >> premier sunday at ten on cnn from real quality that starts in our factory to real performance in your backyard still tools or as tough and dependable as the people who use them this father's de, give them the gift that's built for dad right now, save $50 on

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families and survivors are suing three companies over the mass shooting and these suits are significant because they don't just target the gun maker daniel defense, but they also go after video game company activision, and social media giant meta, the owner of instagram. they argue ac divisions, game we'll call of duty, modern warfare featured a rifles sold by gun maker daniel defense and instagram aggressively marketed the gun to uvalde shooter salvador ramos. the suit claims the company's quote, groomed a generation of young men socially vulnerable insecure about their masculinity and eager to show strength in a statement, activision says, quote the evolve, the shooting was horrendous and heartbreaking in every way. and we express our deepest sympathies, the families and communities who remain impacted by this senseless act of violence millions of people around the world enjoy video games without turning to

horrific acts. we've reached out to meta and daniel defense, but have not heard back. the man behind the uvalde lawsuits is a lawyer who the new york times says is trying to hold gun makers responsible for mass shootings. he took on the company behind the rifle, you in the sandy hook elementary mass shooting and reached a 73 million settlement for the families joining me now, josh koskoff the lawyer presenting the uvalde families. josh, thank you so much for being here every time we are reminded about what happened in uvalde, it just breaks our hearts all over again now, to learn about the latest that you're talking about. i in this lawsuit. it goes after school or social media company the video game company, the gun manufacturer and i'm wondering in your eyes how this lawsuit came to be and holding a trying to hold all three companies responsible

well thank you. >> laura it it really came about initially through my work with the sandy hook case you know, i used to think that it was all the gun company and they did everything wrong to result in a mass shooting. and that's i think at the end of the de had there conduct been appropriate, we're not we're not having this conversation, but the truth is that the gun industry doesn't act alone in targeting kids. they've gotten industry doesn't act alone in helping deliver a message to kids. i don't rome a vulnerable time with their lives to solve their problems with killing. >> and they have to reach a target audience. >> and i think what i've learned is that in this competitive area where gang companies are competing to sell ar 15s, they have to keep getting younger and younger they like them young and two, but they can't reach them without the help of these modern ways of marketing, namely, in the case, in this case, through first-person

shooter game call of duty, and through instagram well, what do you say to those who would say there's a lot of people who play these games and do not commit the heinous acts of gently this shooter, others is, this the one-off or this is the foreseeable consequence of the confluence of all those things it's definitely for foreseeable confluence. >> i mean, how many people does it take to go into a elementary school and slaughter children in the classroom or in the case of parkland and high school kids. i mean, it's not just a one-off in terms of activation anyway, what we know about the three largest school shootings in american history that took place a k through 12th. all kids under 21, laura all wielding and an ar 15 and all avid religious call of duty players this is hardly a one-off. and activision knows it and it's just not, it's not

a, it's not an answer to wrongdoing to say that we've only contributed to one or two or in this case three, at least mass slaughters of children. there should, they shouldn't be contributing to one. and they can do something think about that conduct you represented the families of the sandy hook victims in their lawsuit against the manufacturer of the rifle that was used and that shooting, i think it was a remington that led to a significant settlement because gun manufacturers have federal protections from a 2005 law, though there is still this nuance and the way that it can be applied and how you can go after. >> so what lessons can be learned from what happened in sandy hook that could ultimately be applied in a case like this? >> right? well, the lawyer referring to it's called the protection of lawful commerce in arms act. it does not protect unlawful commerce and arms and specifically in the areas of sales and marketing so

if a gun, company or gone into interest of violates a state statute applicable to the sale or marketing of firearms. they can be held accountable so it's quite simply that in sandy hook, the gun company violated connecticut's unfair trade practices law in this case the daniel defense clearly violated this state of texas statute that prohibits sale offerings sell firearms to minors. we know that because there's a direct email, at least one from daniel defense to this young shooter when he was 17 offering to sell him the rifle that he would ultimately purchase and use at uvalde that's not protected at all by the law when you look at all these what do you think will be the result or what are you asking for a specifically, is it a monetary judgment? >> is it a change in behavior? is it targeting each entity quite differently depending upon what their role has been?

>> well, we can say one thing about these three defendants. the only thing that motivates them as money the only thing that motivates them to sell to a younger and younger audience to court young children and adolescents with guns. the only reason instagram wants to be the corporate mule that delivers a danya of the fats to the doorstep of a child is because of money. it's because of attention and that's where they get money. instagram's case in act divisions case, it's because they habituate children to killing. they train them to kill they teach them tactics. they expose them to products that can go out and buy why money? of course, in daniel defense's case, it's the craven pursuit of money and to beat out the competition that causes them to reach out to children and adolescents to sell violence and murder? so yes, it is. so yes, in that sense, the only way to get them to change is to deliver a blow to where it counts for them. and that's on their bottom what so the compensation in

this case, hopefully we'll do that josh koskoff. >> thank you so much for illuminating this very important issue. and of course, so the families of those who have lost their loved ones, our hearts continue to just pound and anticipation for day when there's no longer happens again. thank you so much. >> hey, man, laura. thank you and thank you all for watching our coverage continues with anderson cooper 360. next that grimy film on your teeth, dr. g actually the buildup of fat bacteria which can cause cavities. >> most toothpaste quit working in minutes, but cresco helps antibacterial fluoride protects all day and stuff cavity before they start crafts if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect new periodontics act of gumbert pair breath freshener, clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease a new toothpaste from periodontics, the dom

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