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send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to 14000 welcome to inside politics. i'm dana bash, a manhattan courtroom it's again, setting the agenda for the 2024 campaign, right now. or jury is deliberating, weighing, and measuring the facts presented by the prosecutors and whether they've made a convincing singh enough case to convict donald trump. >> the 12 jurors spent the morning listening to a court reporter read pivotal excerpts from testimony of michael cohen when and former tabloid publisher david pecker, donald trump is inside the courthouse. >> he's not allowed to leave the building until there is a verdict or the jury breaks for the day. so what's going through his mind? >> well, you might call it the freddie mercury strategy. >> he's convinced that nothing really matters and he actually

believes that he will likely be found guilty. now, this is all reporting from our very own, kristen holmes, who starts us off outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. what are you hearing, kristen? >> yeah. did it mean to be clear, the big hope for trump's team and former president himself is that there's a hung jury that this ends in a mistrial. not that he is convicted. however, when he is talking about this case with his allies, with his donors, he has told some of them that he believes it is likely he will be convicted. he cites the fact that the jury is from manhattan, a area that is mostly made up of more liberal leaning voters. remember donald trump's team believes at the heart of this that whatever the verdict is at the end of the day, that it's going going to be political. in fact, yesterday, they were actually circulating around the 2020 election data they even sent it to me saying essentially, if you look at this map, it would mean out of 12 residents in manhattan, at least one of them is a republican or

right-leaning voter. their excuse for that or the reasoning behind that is that that could lead to a hung jury or a mistrial. now, we have no reason to believe that this is going to be a the political decision. we know that these jurors are taking this very seriously. you have to remember the donald trump and his team. they're sitting there in this room and they really have no idea of what is going to happen. they are reading through the same tea leaves that we are reading through right now and trying to decipher if there is any movement within that jury, if there was going back through any kind of potential for a sympathetic juror. but at the end of the day, they really don't know how that is going to end. >> all right, kristen, thank you so much. we will get back to you if we hear that buzzer go off and if there are more questions from the jury okay. now, we want to go to the white house and the biden campaign. they are watching very closely cnn's kayla tausche joins me now, live from the white house. so kayla, president biden hasn't said much about trump's criminal trial my

husband relatively quiet. pointing instead to the independence of the judicial system and of law enforcement. but that's one major challenge when it comes to whether he would weigh in on this this issue and how he would potentially do it, and what he would say appearing to celebrate a guilty verdict would really reflect poorly on his prior perception of new the tragedy as would condemning anything less than that, whether there's a mistrial or a hung jury, as kristen was just reporting the possibility of. but the other issue is biden's scheduled this week and next today is the ninth anniversary of his son, beau's death. and it's normally a de of family mourning and remembrance tomorrow he'll come back to the the white house where he'll meet with the belgian prime minister and also hosts the super bowl champions, the kansas city chiefs, which is normally a lighthearted event and aides tell me if there had been a very quick verdict and perhaps biden would have mentioned something offhand at the rally that he held in

philadelphia yesterday. and while it is true that aids can set up a seal and a podium pretty much anywhere in the world for him to deliver remarks that there are a lot of challenges to doing that, especially given that next week, he'll be traveling overseas to france for a state visit. and for the 80th anniversary of d-day. now, so far the campaign has taken up the mantle of that messaging, trotting out robert de niro and the january 6 police officers, but that's gotten mixed reviews. david axelrod, a top democratic strategists, panned the situation that devolved outside the courthouse, saying that it played directly into trump's hand and appear to be more like a saturday night live skit and yesterday on cnn, kate betting field, who's a longtime aid, extremely close to president biden and his inner circle also said that it was a waste of resources that it didn't reach the type of voters that biden at this point really needs to reach that most of the people who would have seen that display already have there minds made up and she thought that it also fed a talking point to the trump team. that's why aid so far

non-committal as to whether biden will weigh in and how he will do it. but of course, the substance of what that verdict is is what matters most, dana. >> okay. thank you so much for that reporting. appreciated, kayla. let's talk more about all of this with my terrific reporters here. laura barron-lopez of the pbs newshour, cnn's david chaldean, margaret tala of axios, and cnn's priscilla alvarez. okay. so we are seven what does that say? seven hours and ten minutes in two, jury deliberation. and whose county. but who's counting? >> we are. and as we continue to monitor that we do have a moment to talk inside politics, which we haven't been able to do much because of this, this fascinating trial that's been going on. >> otherwise, you notice not disconnected. >> it's totally connected, but i want to connect to even more right now understanding we have no idea what this jury is going to do, but what we do know from our reported being and that of our colleagues is as we just

heard, sort of the prep going on on either side the context for that prep is that we're not sure how much of the electrode is actually going to be moved by any outcome here in the trial. and so that also will factor into how the campaigns respond to it is there a truly movable universe where there is a return on investment for digging into this. obviously, the trump team, i think if you look at the predicate that they've set throughout this whole thing, i think we'll see nothing changed in their messaging in the aftermath. it's been that this is a rig trial. this is all a political prosecution. and i think they're going to stick with that because that does they think wall off a swath of the electorate from being open to having this impact their thoughts. i think the biden calculus here is gonna be a little bit trickier for them to figure out what, what targeted voters of theirs are really going to be interested of biden either hammering away if he's

convicted that trump is now a convicted felon and using that that's framing every day or perhaps trying to stay above it all and just respect the jury process, whatever they come down on, i think they have a trickier calculus and going back to the trump team, this caught our eye. this is a headline from politico, and it certainly dovetails with christians reporting trump team. thanks. all verdict outcomes work for trump former president's advisers and allies plan to situate any outcome within the same grievance narrative that he's been cultivating for years. so it's like press f4 on the computer. >> yeah. i mean, it's heads trump wins, tails, you lose. so in strategy that they're using here with these criminal cases is also the strategy that they use with the election writ large, which is laying a foundation of no matter what the system is rigged so if he ends up winning the election, or if he ends up being found not guilty, then great. but if he does, well, the system is rigged anyways, and my voters

believed that. now when it comes to biden's campaign we just have a new poll out at pbs newshour that finds it 10% of republicans and 11% of independence. if trump is found guilty, that they could be swayed, that their votes could change, that's and so that's, that's the at the margins. it seems like a small, very small amount, but in those battleground states, the margins is what matter if it's one or 2% raise all of this is going to matter. i think the conventional wisdom up until now has been that on the political side, if there is a conviction for the former president in this legal case that that would hurt him. i think the biden team's real concern is they have no role in this legal fight, but they live with the implications of it. one of the conventional wisdom isn't right. what if there's the boomerang effect? what if it's somehow either helps donald trump? trump or makes no difference at all. and in the back of their minds, they were like, well, let's see how the case plays out, right. so but

but it is for the base. they've already decided in the conviction might even ramp up turnout for the die-hard trump opponents. their minds already made up. he's already guilty in their minds. what about the nicki? you haley voters? what about the disenfranchised independent two aren't really sure they want to turn out anyway, would a conviction make a difference? we've seen in polling people saying that a conviction against a candidate would make him less appealing candidate for president but is it this conviction? there is this different than you know, classified documents or trying to sway votes are some of those other things. so we don't know well, i think the challenge is what, how do they message on all of these fronts? >> that's the challenge for the biden campaign because when this trial first started, it was about counterprogramming the former president is in the courtroom were out here working for the american, ignoring it ignoring it where the president was traveling, he is talking about the economy, about health care, about the issues that

voters care about. but then when we saw this week and we saw an admission from the biden campaign, the bds circus. they called it was in front of the courtroom, so they went there they said you guys are here every single day, so we're going to enter the fray and we are now going to attack or go on the attack as well on this particular issue. and so they have clearly evolve. they're trying to get more aggressive. they consistently say, and the president's allies say that he's a fighter and that they want to see more of that et from him in this more aggressive phase of the campaign. but what it also shows is that there is a grappling of how do you communicate to those voters were on the margins. that the president is the better choice here because of what donald trump is going through in the courtroom. >> and i think we should just stipulate one thing here because i think sometimes when we talk talk about all of this, we lose sight. being a convicted felon. that's a bad thing. just objectively like that's not a great credential, so yes, not normal. there could be the boomerang effect, yes. it may not be determinative as

a negative in the outcome of the 2024 presidential race. but in no universe does donald trump want to be running this race as a conviction? it did felon and in no universe is that like an attribute that he may embrace it for political reasons, akre, but that he embraces in any way personal. it also, in no way is this the top issue on almost any voters less about adaptive? i want to turn a little bit to a little bit of a different topic in the 2020 four campaign. and the question which we're all following, which is the fight for a voters of color, which are traditionally in the democratic wheelhouse and the trump campaign is making a very aggressive push four. >> and one of the questions is whether or not the way that the biden campaign is doing it going after the specific things

accomplishments that the biden campaign has gotten for the for the minority communities, particularly african-americans going over saying that they have actually let me just play for you raphael warnock, because he explained this morning on cnn the way that he approaches it and he thinks that the biden campaign is doing it right? as someone who preaches every sunday, i can remind you that there's a reason why we show up every sunday. >> and that is that people need to be reminded. and so i don't think that what the president and the campaign is doing is any different than what the preacher does every sunday, reminding us of the good news and the great thing for us is that we've got a lot of good news to share so the good news that he's talking about our student loan forgiveness and many other again, accomplishment on the biden signed. >> i just want to sort of give you the alternate argument and

it's not the listicle. and the specifics, the laundry list, if you will. >> it is as donald trump says african-americans are getting slaughtered hispanic americans are getting slaughtered. >> he means economically and it reminds me of what brad par scale, who was started out in 2016 as the digital media director, had no political experience at all. told me and has since told others about the way that they approached the ads and also the messaging. and it goes back to an ipod not ipad. and iphone ipod. we're definitely dating ourselves and the way that it makes you feel he used that. and others in the campaign ended up agreeing with this as a north star for messaging not what have you done for me? >> what will you do for me? but how do you feel yeah. >> i mean, this is a struggle for the biden campaign and they

admit that it's a struggle for them because when other democrats talk about what the president has accomplished or talk about what his administration has accomplished and what they've been able to do with him. they say that that message works really well when they're out on the campaign trail, the number of democratic pollsters have told me that there are candidates, that they're working for right now are outperforming president biden on the same exact message. the president biden is running on. so there's a bit of cognitive dissonance going on right now, i think amongst american voters, also, there are a number of great economic factors. the fact that americans believed that unemployment and is that a 50 year high when it's actually almost had a 50-year low i don't know if it's totally an indictment on us and the press or if it's also the fact that president biden is not the best messenger out there right now for democrats to convince voters that there are these great economic markers. here's what i've done for you. here's what i want to do in the future, because you're right, dana i mean, voters do feel a

certain way about the economy, even though it doesn't match sometimes even what they admit, which is that their personal finances are better now than they were previously so that's something that democrats are saying the way that they think he, the president needs to address it is just be out there constant gently in front of voters in the communities and send out as many surrogates as he possibly can. potentially younger ones to make that argument and take note too, that president biden did that yesterday with vice president kamala harris. they don't often go on the campaign trail together, but they were trying to court black voters in philadelphia, which is crucial for them. the state of pennsylvania it's crucial for them and to your point about surrogates, i was in georgia for one of the president's campaign rallies. and that's gonna be a tough state this time around, especially because there's not as many down-ballot races, so they can't get that enthusiasm and needs to come directly for the president. and so i was talking to democratic strategists on the ground who said, look, we

need to fan out there, that there's not going to be these other candidates i can get voters excited. you go to the polls. so it needs to come from the president and they have folks like jim clyburn in the president is also doing interviews with journalists, but it's not easy. okay. everybody standby. we are keeping a close eye, of course, in new york at the courthouse there as we wait for the jury's verdict in the dark trump trial, we're going to get thoughts on the days developments from a criminal defense attorney and a jury consultant next and later, republicans buy movie tickets to new cnn reporting from our own personal alvarez, who is right here on how hollywood stars are carefully calibrate, calibrating their approach to the 2024 election and how public or private to be about who they're going to back at the ballot box one of the most active 22 seasons you can't control cool. tornado. >> what kinds of interventions can we design go inside the store premiere of london, earth

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ban them like a p. >> we have nothing to worry about with e-trade for morgan stanley were ready for whatever gets served up. >> do you got to work on your chest? >> i'd rather work on saving for retirement or college since we'd like to get schooled. >> that's pretty good burn, right? got game thanks for. coming to our clinic. first one's free. >> i'm caitlin polantz at the federal court in washington, and this is cnn right now, the jury is in its eighth hour of deliberations and the trump hush money trial. the verdict could come literally at any moment the jurors are back in the jury room after spending the morning rehearing pivotal pieces of testimony from michael cohen and david pecker joining me to discuss criminal defense attorney ron qb, along with jury consultant and trial attorney robert hirshhorn. thank you so much, gentlemen, for being here, ron. i want to start with you and read to you and to our viewers a section that the jury asked to be re-read to them earlier today.

and this is the metaphor that the judge use to explain reasonable doubt for example, suppose you go to bed one night when it's not raining and when you wake up in the morning, you look out your window, you do not let's see rain, but you see the street and sidewalk or wet and that people are wearing raincoats and carrying umbrellas under those circumstances, it may be reasonable to infer that is conclude that it rain during the night. in other words, the fact of it having rained while you were asleep is an inference that might be drawn from the proven facts of the presence of the water on the street and sidewalk and people in raincoats and carrying umbrellas. ron, again, starting with you, what do you make of that? >> it is nice to know that this law school piece of evidentiary teaching still persist to this very day. this is a way of showing that distinction between direct evidence, where somebody, a witness sees, hears

smells, tastes, what actually took place. and so-called circumstantial evidence where you have to draw an inference based on what you see or hear what is this area cared about this? >> what if donald trump were seen shooting somebody on fifth avenue that would be direct evidence. if he was seen by somebody carrying a smoking gun down fifth avenue after that witness heard a shot, you could infer that it was donald trump who fired the shot, but you wouldn't have to infer that there could be other explanations so it seems as though the argument that the defense made, which is the only direct evidence of this conspiracy, comes from michael comb this kind of jury-instruction kind of puts that to rest. yes, it's the only direct evidence, but there's a lot of circumstantial evidence.

>> and robert turning to another excerpt that the jury asked for this morning, that was from testimony from michael cohen and david pecker. what they asked for was the description of a pivotal august 2015 meeting at trump tower between cohen and pecker. and another call in june of 2016 about former playboy playmate karen mcdougal. the excerpts also included pecker's testimony about not finalizing trump's payment to the national enquirer's parent company for mcdougal's life rights does this give you any insight into where the jury is right now in their deliberations and what they might be thinking indeed, it does great to be with you, dana, and with you ron so the jury is a smart jury. they're thoughtful. there are hardworking, they're dedicated. are not rigged. okay. they're doing their job. and what they're doing is because they are linear and logical, they're

starting at the beginning. >> and this is one of the key moments in the beginning. i think part of the reason why they wanted both the pecker version as well as the colon version, was to see how much that lines up they tell basically the paid version of what happened or is it different because what the big issue in this case it's going to be cohen's credibility. >> and this is going to be one way for them to test that i want everybody to know. we are not in a sprint. this is a marathon. >> everybody. you know, it's going to take a long time because that's what happens when you have smart jurors. so this is just one of what i anticipate a number the questions we're going to get from the jury, because this is really a complicated case. >> it is complicated which begs the question that i have been asking. all morning. ron, maybe you can answer this. why make it harder for the jurors? why can't they just actually physically get copies of the transcripts and jury

instructions. why do they? have to have somebody read it to them? >> it's like having to really cram for a test. and in this case my not just have the sort of answers there for them as they tried to make this incredibly important decision. well, i actually did some research on that today because i've always known that was the case, but i never quite knew why. and the rule about jury instructions not going to the jury, which is a new york rule, not a universal rule, seems to have originated with the idea that you want to make sure sure that all the jurors are getting exactly the same instruction at exactly the same time. and the only way you can do that is the instructions are read orally in open court to everyone. the same is true to a large extent of the transcript, but the other issue with the transcript is that not everything in the transcript is read to the jury.

>> the objections that were sustained, the questions that were sustained, the arguments that were had all of that is redacted out. >> so the only thing they here is the actual testimony that was permitted. yeah. >> that i understand the other part, just use a sharpie and redacted. but anyway, we can talk more about that later jury instructions real quick. run the jury instructions is not the recipe and to not give the jury the recipe. >> jurors learn visually. >> they learned by their is not there for years. they retain more information with your eyes and you solve the problem by giving every single signature a copy of the charge that's certainly how i learn. i'd like to read everything thank you. both. >> we're definitely going to continue this conversation very soon. >> appreciate both of you coming on thank you, dan. >> sure. thank you. and we're going to keep our eyes on courtroom. bring you any developments from the jury if there are any next though, we

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craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office... [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg's moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don's paying so much for at&t, he's been waiting to update his equipment! there's a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don't have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. or visit home serve.com i'm more than liebermann at the pentagon and this cnn the election is now 159 days away. >> president biden's campaign says, the reason he still trailing in most national and battleground state polls is that people aren't paying

attention. yes. >> those polls are going to turn. i'm confident of it because as time goes on, eddas, people start to focus a little bit more about what's at stake and start to become educated on the issues and the differences between them. the two men, i believe the americans are going to choose good over evil now on the question, whether or not people are paying attention, you can see on your screen there's a new poll out from marist and pbs that shows that 81% of registered voters say that they are very closely following at the campaign. >> 79% of independents joining me now to talk about this in much more democratic pollster and a greenberg and republican pollster, kristen soldiers anderson, nice to see you both. >> what do you make of that argument? >> it's true that people feel like right now, politics is just awful. and so they don't want to consume a lot of

information about it at the same time. it is very possible for people's attitudes about an election to be set pretty early. recall back in 2012 when the obama campaign went hard about mitt romney's private equity past that cake was baked early on and that didn't change as you got closer to the election. so i think even though people do feel like this election is, they don't really want to consume a ton about it. that doesn't mean that their views will be hugely malleable as we get closer to election. >> nodding your head. >> no, i think that's right. i mean, i think that this lecture has been going on for so long and not very much has happened. i mean, really trump and biden have been the presumptive nominees for a year-and-a-half for two years. and so it feels endless and people are much more focused on what's going on in their daily lives. i did focus groups to last five weeks in frontline congressional districts, and not one person has mentioned the trump trial. and that one person has mentioned student protests on campuses. and so sometimes i think when we're in the bubble, we think everybody is

seeing all this stuff, but they really aren't. it's not that interesting to them. >> but they're paying attention to the presidential race or really, i i think that is sort of people tend to engage later, especially low information voters. >> this timing of this president, presidential election is very strange, like nothing has happened to her like a year-and-a-half. and unlike say, the primary in 2016 or covid and the primary 2020, where there were lots of different hi things happening with lots of different people, like nothing has happened in this race. >> well, one of the questions is whether or not one of the big issues that drove 2022 midterms, which is abortion after roe was overturned, is going to play out. the democrats are hoping, of course the answer is yes house majority pac, which is a leading democratic super pac, plans to spend $100 million on an ad campaign focused on abortion i want you to just focus on one particular state and that is florida, which has not exactly been a swing state in the past couple of a

presidential cycles but on the issue of abortion, 60% say they support a right to abortion amendment 45% say they support joe biden. so kristen it's not necessarily good news for donald trump, but do you believe that the abortion issue is as potent as it? was two years ago? >> so i think that in statewide races, it very well could be so a state like florida for instance, has a six-week abortion limit going either into effect very soon or make perhaps it already isn't affected this is the sort of thing where as the effective it is felt in the state, you can imagine it rising up in importance in viewers minds are so it mmh or pardon me, voter's minds. so it may change on a state to state basis as we approach the election. i can also imagine it being more potent in senate races because they have the critical role of confirming judges, judges playing a big role in this. so it may be see that there are certain types of races where this issue plays a

bigger effect on up. >> and i know you were saying and you do a lot of work with what we call front-line congressional races. >> those who are going to democrats, of course, you work with, we're going to win or lose and determine the majority are not in the house in these cases, in those focus groups, you're talking about is abortion still what happens is that women bring it up in the focus groups. >> and when you ask voters what the most important issue is women are much more likely to put abortion higher than their less than men. now, women are the majority of the electorate and they tend to be the majority of target voters, swing voters persuadable. however you want to define it. i think you're going to see it play out in every congressional race. i promise you, if it's a state where there isn't abortion on the ballot and abortions legal. it'll be all about what could happen if control changes in congress, if it's a state like arizona, where there's a ballot initiative and a restrictive law, it's going to be as much about what's happening in the state it is what's happening nationally, but i guarantee you that 150 million is only one slice of the advertising that's gonna be about abortion. this cycle. >> what about the other side of

the coin? the other side of the issue. people who are gonna go out to vote for donald trump because they're against abortion how, i mean, how does that square with the kind of voters you're talking about? what do you think so, i think the folks that are donald trump's base abortion is generally not as big of a driving issue. >> one thing that's been really fascinating for the trump era of the republican party is that abortion as sort of social, cultural issue that drove voters has almost been downplayed by other things like fights over gender identity, et cetera. so the mix of issues that constitutes social conservative animating issues has changed a little bit over the last decade. and i think abortions becomes slightly less a piece of that puzzle. >> i would agree. i mean, i think the things that dr. republicans or immigration and crime are much more than abortion certainly dropped i've trump voters, and i also think in some ways this shift to things like dealing with transgender issues or gender identity issues really animates their voters. but the way it gets executed creatively is so

over the top and so inconsistent with people's lived experience that they tend to see the ads and say, i don't really understand, i don't see that happening my community. and so you have a place like kentucky where they ran seven transgender ads against andy beshear. it didn't affect his vote. one point. >> so fascinating. always learn something from each of you. both of you chris, and thank you so much. you're coming up. joe biden's then zendaya problem. that's right. you heard that, right new cnn reporting on how hollywood, especially young hollywood is hesitating to come out fully behind the president in his fight against donald trump. >> don't go anywhere russia is we're trying to spy on us. >> we were spying on them saudi friday this is a war. >> the secret was secrets and spies. a nuclear game. premieres sunday at ten on cnn back their tech allergy relief works fast. >> it lasts a full 24 hours. so zaid can be the deliverer.

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one have mesothelial will send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to 14000 politicians relying on hollywood for votes is as american as apple pie from high hopes on the right track he's got to hope and change for the very first time in my life. >> i feel compelled to stand up and to speak out for the man who i believe has a new vision for america presidential races specifically democrats have banked on the biggest stars to come out and help them. >> but a new cnn report finds that despite a splashy rollout of some support from megawatts stars, the biden campaign is struggling to get much topologies with two publicly

put themselves in his corner, are back with our panel for scylla. want to start with you. this is your reporting. is there concern in the biden campaign is their bewilderment? how are they feeling about this specifically? who were they upset that they haven't gotten to come out? there's a lot of discussion happening behind the scenes and when you talk to the biden campaign and say, look weight wait until between the democratic national convention and election day, because that's when the bulk of them would come out. it's when it makes sense for them to come out as people tune in. but in talking to political consultants, strategists, all folks who consult celebrities, they say, look, there's a lot of wariness and trepidation because of the hyperpolarized political landscape and because of the disapproval over the as we're all hamas war, i mean, in december, moron carrie, who just had a pit stop at the white house for christmas celebration, her post was flooded with comments on the israel-hamas war and the fact that she was even affiliated with the president at all. on it is that type of risk that some celebrities just don't want to take? now, will they mobilize around issues? many of

them say, sure, they're going to mobilize around abortion and climate change. but in a time when enthusiasm is lacking for either candidate, they really want to get these celebrities out there to build that up. and especially for the younger generations, this in daya is a taylor swift to come out and get those younger voters going. so laura, that this is a quote from from this reporting, the dream would be to get someone like zendaya, who is the biggest gen z star or taylor swift's swift two covers every rubric for mass appeal, right? or beyond say, i mean, all right. now biden is having issues with young voters. is herzallah said. >> and black voters and hispanic voters. >> so if he'd able to to get that type of permission structure created by getting the celebrities out. it could influence some of them. i think that some of that influence is a bit overstated when it comes to these voters. i mean, when you talked to them, i don't think that any any of the young voters that i spoke to in michigan recently would be totally persuaded if one of these celebrities back biden,

they are very focused on specific issues. some of it israel-hamas war, but also abortion and economy. they bring up as well. he did. >> that was just going to as i bring you in, it's not as if no stars have been out there julia roberts, george clooney, robert de niro is we know jimmy kimmel, steven koh bear. they're not yet and z yeah, button is by the way, a return guest on the smartless podcast. i think the celebrity podcast adds a new twist to the age-old endorsement thing even if it's not an explicit endorsement, if you're getting airtime with celebrities, that's an affiliation. but like do celebrity endorsements make a difference? there's actually been a number of academic like longitude no studies done this, believe it or not and the answer is, nobody really does celebrity endorsements make a big difference? we know in brands, like for products, for consumer products, they do make a difference on issues, advocacy, if you're talking about climate change, if you're talking about abortion, you're talking about ai the whole thing with a canada is a little bit mercury or two trends. one,

not clear, it works. trend number two, these liberties are really worried about their own brands and splitting their brain as corporations, you have to think of these celebrities like businesses. why do corporations not loved to buy advertising around political programming or be involved in it? the polar one thing that you discussed in the story, it's their own brand that they're trying to protect. you know, obviously, michael jordan famously was all about saying, hey, republicans by sneakers, just like democrats do so if politics has been a realm that celebrities don't want to delve into. i think the list you just ticked through there. there are politically active celebrities that are going remain politically active no matter what. but in terms of getting new players on the field, there's just a lot of risks and i think about mrs. america, which i know you've seen many times, the taylor swift documentary from before, the erez, but that's another but she in that documentary, she taught bucks to her team about going public for the first time, really being political

and they were saying, don't do it and she was saying, i have to i mean, now she is like bigger than anybody and certainly bigger than she was there it's hard to imagine that not moving. >> and she came around, but i think that ends up being the bottom line. >> and actually as the bottom line of the piece, which is that they are banking on them coming around and seeing oh, my gosh, trump could win. we need to get involved now. we need to endorse the president. so maybe they're holding off now but there's also a thinking of like come october, they're going to come around anyways because hollywood or salman hollywood don't want to see the former president win a second term, but is that enough? >> i mean, it's it's unclear who showed oprah that oprah endorsement did make a difference. that was democratic primary and it was with a lesser known, less tested person, everybody in the world knows who the two rivals running for the general election are. >> so having a validator on an unknown personality is not the issue, but there just aren't that many oprah's or bianna or e-tailers? so as one of these endorsements could make a difference, most of them

probably may have just named them all all right, guys. >> thank you so much. donald trump flirts with another billionaire. we're going to tell you who and why it matters next 80 years after d-day, jake tapper talks to top generals about the state of democracy. are we protecting what we want to save? >> there has been democratic backsliding around the world. >> are you concerned the whole story with anderson cooper sunday at aid on cnn. >> i've struggled with generalized myasthenia gravis but the pitcher started changing when i started on vif guard this guard has for adults generalized myasthenia gravis or anti echr antibodies deposited in a clinical trial, vif guard significantly improved most participant's ability to do daily activities when added to their current gm's your treatment most participants taking viv guard also had less muscle weakness and your vf guard treatment schedule is designed just for you in a clinical study, the

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marquardt in washington and this is cnn donald trump loves is star, and he also loves people who make a lot of money. >> now he reportedly has somebody who fits both descriptions in his sights for a gig inside a potential second administration, the wall street journal says, donald trump and elon musk have had multiple conversations about folding. the tesla and x owner into the government as a special advisor the journal says musk has signaled he's not interested

in running a check. but we'll use his cloud and connections to help trump beat biden musk and the trump campaign did not respond to cnn's request for comment. thank you so much for joining inside politics today. cnn news central starts after the break simons are going on the tornado here i'm thinking i'm going to die and i thought that was it earth with liev schreiber, premiere sunday had not on cnn zyrtec allergy relief works fast. it lasts a full 24 hours, so they can be good liver dance okay. >> dave let's be more than our allergies seize the day with zehr tech imagine a future where plastic is not wasted but

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