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>> we have the most important force of all and as the voice of the jurors, they have spoken donald j trump has been convicted of 34 counts in american president turn convicted felon, 34 times over tonight, the jurors have spoken, but the voters have not. this story is far from over. in fact, it might be just the beginning. welcome to a special edition of laura coates live on this very historic night tomorrow, the 2024 presidential campaign enters a new, more uncertain phase. donald trump is now newly convicted and he will address the cameras at trump tower of all places at 11:00 a.m. eastern. now, we've got two a little bit of a taste of what his message might be when he spoke after hearing the verdict, 34 counts worth today this was a rigged disgraceful

trial that the real verdict is going to be november 5th, by the people and they know what happened here. >> we didn't do anything wrong. i'm a very innocent man while the 12 new york jurors who sat and watched him inside for what, 23 days inside that very courtroom made him think he was innocent after nearly 12 hours of deliberations, they came back with this verdict sheet guilty on all 30 34 counts and the manhattan da alvin bragg thing, if the jurors for following the law, he said and convicting trump of concealing a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election reporters asked him about the insult then the criticism he received from trump, his allies, and by the way, even some in the media his answer i did my job our job is to follow the facts and the law without fear or favor now, trump's failed defense centered largely around trying to discredit the da's star

witness, michael cohen, trump's lead attorney, todd blanche, standing by that exact strategy the jury convicted so at the end of the day, they they looked past what we thought were fatal flaws and mr. cohen's story and his past and they've reached a guilty verdict so what about. michael collin? >> well, he took a victory lap tonight. >> he called the verdict and important day for accountability and in typical michael cohen fashion, he had a few words for a branch's decision to dub him the globe. >> remember that's it for the greatest liar of all time. >> you have an acronym for todd? >> i did. >> i was going to call him a sloped, which is the stupidest lawyer of all time you cannot listen, you cannot listen to your client. when you are trying to create a defense, a defense that is as important as this one is we see the irony

here in that statement about a lawyer listening to a client, right? >> okay. i'll move on. as papers and magazines print their store, it covers like this one from the new yorker with trump inches away from handcuffs he won't actually learn his punishment until july 11. sentencing day. otherwise known as laura coates is birthday. will there be prison time stay tuned lots to get to with our panel tonight, elise adams and former bella prosecutor, karen friedman, agnifilo, a cnn legal analyst and former chief assistant da, the manhattan da's office karen is counsel for a firm representing michael cohen, but she does not have any contact with cohen. >> she does not work on his case. also with me, elie honig, cnn legal analyst lance davis, former attorney for michael cohen, and stephen legal commentator and former trump attorney tim parlatore, also here bringing in the non-legal section of the bench devlin barrett, a law enforcement reporter for the washington post, glad to have you all here

and before the world things i was throwing shade about a sentencing day, 711 really is laura coates birthday i accept gifts and chocolate. >> devlin me, go to you first hear devlin. >> you were there in the courtroom. this was an extraordinary good moment. we were all waiting with bated breath for weeks now to see what might happen, what this jury of 12 would decide take us inside the courtroom. the moment when donald trump, a former president, is hearing the guilty verdict, 34 counts being read. what was going on? >> so i just want to step back a minute because it was a really wild sequence of events and it started with the judge coming out because it was the end of the day, trial normally goes to put stops for the day at around 430. and just before that, the judge came out and basically said we're going to tell them to go home soon. you can start packing up and we'll all be here tomorrow morning. and if you can imagine sort of like it's a cartoon panel and like the words are still in the bubble above his head as he saying that. and he then says,

actually, we got a note at 4:20 and then noted 420 says we the jury have a verdict, and so all these people who had been stressed out all through the de and had it been coming down? own and we're relaxing and sort of like going the long slow drive to calm down something aunt ray backup and then you had to wait, but then the crazy part was you then had to wait 30 minutes because what the jury needed was 30 minutes to fill out the rest of the form. >> so they're sitting around waiting for the paperwork blanche and trump, todd. todd, blanche, trump's lawyer were very jovial and joking right up until the moment they heard that there was that node. and then suddenly the entire room, including them, got very serious and just waited and the tension built and built and built and in the jury comes out and they read their verdict and it's guilty. each time they grow through it quite quickly and it was very tense and the whole room felt it and i think when you heard at first 30

minutes, if thought the verdict form, people thought would it be a mixed verdict, but some of these counts be either sorry, an acquittal or otherwise will be the actual dissection of the different 34 different counts are really important moment to think about those highs and lows and b go to you tim, because you have presented in the past, donald trump, and united spoken about what that tension feels like in the room when you're waiting for a verdict, when you're thinking about all the woodwork could have should is anyway, the monday well, at this point, the thursday afternoon, quarterbacking, you just actually heard the michael cohen talking about trashing todd blanche, and the defense strategy, listened to what blanche had to say about that tonight for a moment. who ultimately wasn't charge of the defense strategy here, was it you or was it donald trump it was both of us. if there's a lawyer that comes in and says that they're in charge of their defense strategy. >> they're not doing a service of their client. every decision that we made, we made as a team

i mean, that's not exactly true you do want to dictate not because you are trying to undermine the opportunity to have a voice, but you didn't listen to your client and totally deferential every time did you you have to remember this is only todd second trial as defense lawyer, so it's only the second time having a client to listen to as a criminal defense attorney, you i have the experience. i went to school, i learned how to do this, and the professional at running a trial, my client is professional you know, building a real estate empire at whatever it is that they do. and so i always have that conversation of like, hey, look if we're doing a real estate using temp is an example i would say something along the lines of if we were doing a real estate deal, i'm going to follow your lead. >> but here this is my battlefield, so i need you to follow my lead. >> i need the input from the client they know the facts better than i do because they lived it. >> but as to strategy and how to maneuver around a jury, unless i have a client that happens to be themselves, they

trial lawyer they are not in the battlefield that they are comfortable and trained and experienced in it. so the lawyer has to take lead. yeah. you've had many clients and one of your clients has been michael cohen, by the way, we talked for a long time about this distinction obviously donald trump was the defendant in this case, but michael cohen oftentimes i am as a people looking in hearing about this trial and his credibility issues thought that he was the defendant. how do you think he is feeling tonight? >> well, i just watched him. he's very happy and feels as i watch him, haven't talked to him, vindicated but we spent over an hour with the most professional lawyers i've ever been surrounded by the manhattan da prosecutors questioning michael and showing us how they were going to proceed and why i said what i said so many times. to you and others on this station was a result of that experience. it

was all about the documents and corroboration and testimony from trump friends and allies from the first day we were there through almost a year, my trips from washington to new york early in the morning, it was all about the document humans so when i saw the defense strategy and some people on television of spending most of their time attacking liar, liar pants on fire. i knew in my view as a lawyer and i'm not a criminal lawyer it wasn't going to work because the jury is going to believe they're lying eyes. and that was ultimately probably what happened. i mean, common sandi is not left at the door, right? >> we were thinking about how things go together. we've spent a lot of time, all of us reading tea leaves, wondering what they would do based on our experience. obviously as prosecutors and thinking about it but what's it out to you, elis in terms of that focus on the credibility of michael cohen. i mean, there had been a lot and in fact, michael cohen had a lot more to say this evening when he was speaking, i believe with rachel maddow

earlier and let me just play for you. one of the comments he said because he thinks it was donald trump who was really dictating and ultimately tanked his own when defense strategy, listen to this i don't think if you probably ask todd whether this is the way he really wanted to run this defense i can assure you. >> he would say no, but it's not once it was never his call. it was donalds cool. and despite now that he lost, i'm sure we're not going to see much of him anymore. >> he says he's going on is help them in florida and otherwise, but if trump dictate the defense strategy, did he cut off his nose despite his base? >> yeah. look, loren i think that's very possible. i mean, think of the data points we have from the former president, not shocking that he would be dictating his defense i think that that would make sense because i always i was asking myself strategy wise, why was todd blanche doing what he was doing? i understand tim's point that he's a brand new defense attorney, but he's not a brand new lawyer. he was really he was doing two things.

he did the spaghetti defense. he threw everything on the wall to see what stuck. that was true in his summation. and then he did spend too much time attacking michael cohen. and there were other things in this case that he could have spent time on to actually hone in on reasonable doubt because it's very clear this jury believed michael collin and they were able to do that because the prosecution very wisely focused on corroboration i mean, it wasn't just they didn't have to wait from the testified. he was the end of it. >> yeah. michael cohen, such an interesting witness and he's unlike any cooperating witness, i've ever dealt with, and i've dealt with a lot and a lot of really bad people who've done it way worse things than michael color. >> on the one hand, i've never seen a witness with the combination of textbook textbook, credibility problems that michael has the prior convictions for fraud for perjury, for lying to congress. the other uncharged on criminal lies to the media, to his family, to banks, et cetera.

and combine that with the bias i've never seen a single witness who hated and openly hated the defendant, wanted him to go to jail as badly as michael cohen on the other hand, and the name of the game, everyone at this table nose is corroboration. the single word prosecutors say most spend the most time thinking about is corroboration and lanny is right the documentation, the handwritten notes that checks the other witness testimony. david pecker's testimony none of it was 100% corroborating of michael cohen. there was still a bit that the jury had to take it as word, but a lot of it overlapped and reinforce. so michael cohen had to say in a way that it really minimize that leap of faith that the jury had to take in michael cohen, and hence the result. >> so do you think people were very critical karen, throughout the entirety of death may remember, they criticize size, the da, alvin bragg, they talked about the udacity at him going first, that was the first initial irritation than it was how dare you elevate from a misdemeanor to a felony? it was which is your predicate crime. how are you elevating in the long run? do you have enough to go on here? it said the fed's

didn't want to touch this they went on and on. is he vindicated tonight? absolutely. i mean, look, the manhattan da's office has this storied tradition that dates back way longer than alvin bragg and it dates back to before cy mr. morgan thaw, frank hogan, thomas dewey, i mean, the manhattan da's offices is really just a place that has always believed in prosecution as something that is not political. there's a big sign when you walk in the door, it's is that you see every time it's a quote, i think from hogan, it said, you can't play politics with people's lives and they really drill that into you and you're their politics have no place in there. and that's why this, this mantra of you bring cases without fear or favor. you follow the facts wherever they lead. and it's drilled into every single assistant that's in there. and i worked there for almost 30 years and that is so important to everybody there. and alvin bragg came in and and people

were skeptical he was new and that happened when cy vans came to whenever there's somebody new people were skeptical and he was not afraid to that he was handed a case that other people thought he should have brought against donald trump. one took one look at it and he says, i'm not bringing that case. that was the criminal version of the case then letitia james ended up bringing and he took a look at this case and he decided to bring this case and that was his judgment. first of all, he was elected by the people of manhattan. >> but for that reason, i'm going to cut you off if for that reason, there was a difference between so-called line prosecutors, that are not elected, not political appointees in any way, shape, or form don't campaign to get their job and that the fact that he is somebody who was elected, that was baggage that many would look at and say, okay, it may be true for the office not to have politics, but that was part of the criticism of him that there was skepticism because he was elected. was that fair? >> i think it's fair to criticize any when you're the

elected da, you're your half prosecutor, half politician. unlike the career prosecutors, like you said, and i think it's fair criticism, of course. i mean, i think public servants and prosecutors should always be tested and questioned that being said, i personally know the assistance in there. i know josh steinglass, i know susan hoffinger, i know all the assistants who who did this case. there is no da that could tell them to bring a case that they didn't believe in would never happen. they would walk out the door before they would do something like that. >> well, they were successful in convincing the jurors that they had met their burden of proof and history was made stick around. everyone, please trump's most loyal supporters are rallying to his defense tonight, including his potential vp picks. congressman byron donalds is one of them. any joins me next home yes

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doc? to three-to-one, three-to-one. today, i melies nonna in washington, and this is cnn members that trump family and republicans are rallying behind former president donald trump tonight don junior raging saying, quote, the democrats have succeeded in their years-long attempt to turn america into a third world

hole. >> his words, not mine meanwhile, ivanka trump posting an image of herself as a small girl with the caption. i love you dad republican allies reacting with fury this, was certainly a hoax, a sham. this was devastating for the average american did. >> this is the most outrageous travesty of ever seen. and the problem here is democrats across this line. >> i've ever heard constituents so frustrated and so angry at what you've seen there are so afraid of donald trump that they're willing to run our election system. >> my reaction with debt of many americans is one of fury, outrage, contempt joining now republican congressman from florida and trump ally and person who may be on the short list for the vp, byron donalds, congressman. thank you for joining me this evening. history has been made today and many have had a visceral reaction one way or the other? what is your reaction tonight? do you respect with the jurors

have had to say and their verdict no, i don't. >> and i think that's part the jury's fall, but it's really a default of judge merchan his jury instructions were ridiculous by many legal scholars who examined what he's gave the jury and they've never saw anything like this you have a situation where the actual federal crime about the election was never really identified anywhere through the trial, except at closing arguments by the prosecution after the defense had finished air closing arguments, the judge repeatedly interrupted the defense when they were trying to bring information to the jury please understanding you didn't allow an fec lawyer one of the top people in the country with novels of how the federal election commission actually works and looks at cases like this. they were not allowed to testify in open court in front of the jury. so no, i think a lot of people are looking at this case in a see it for what it is. it is a sham. this was a railroad what persecution of donald trump simply because alvin bragg and

a lot of radical democrats in our country wanted to get donald trump. they don't view this as justice and neither do i will congressman a couple of points. >> you mentioned the jury instructions. a lot of it was boiler plate that has been used before and the parties did have a chance to come together and decide what they it would be, but i certainly hear the criticism that many had concerned about what was that underlying theory that so-called predicate crime that would go from the misdemeanor to the felony but it is allowed to be able to have the jury decide those different fronts. but i want to focus on in particular, the aspect of i'll let you finish second, but i want to finish my point first. i want to focus in particular on the point about who it is was bringing this case. and that's alvin bragg. i've heard a number of your colleagues talk about this being the weaponization of the government. and because donald trump is the political opponent of biden, but bragg is a state-level prosecutor. he is not under the purview of the department of justice. what do

you assign that fault to him well, two things. >> let's go back. first of all, the judge did tell the jury that they can decide amongst multiple different federal crimes to adjudicate guilt on this misdemeanor that they elevated to a felony in state court. so if you're gonna do that, first of all, you have to bring expert testimony from somebody with federal background on those charges. they did not allow that to be brought forward. now, specific to alvin bragg, the issue here is that he ran on the entire position of getting done hammel trump. that was one of the core pillars of his campaign to become the district attorney in manhattan. and so now you have somebody who basically said i'm gonna go get somebody regardless of what the charges might be, regardless of what you might think of potential crime might be his entire campaign was focused on getting donald trump. that's why he's coming under scrutiny because as this is political, not actually about following the law. and i go back to not

identifying a crime, the fec looked at this, they said there's nothing to see here. they are the arbiters of what is a campaign finance violation so for alvin bragg to go out there now and say, well, this is interfering with the 2016 election. he's a state-level prosecutor. it's not even his jurisdiction. how can he make that claim when the fcc said there is nothing to see here and a us attorney's office said there's nothing to see here clearly, this will be an issue on appeal as is be different theories that the jury was able to look at. >> the judge did here are the concerns the defense counsel about allowing the jury to have that very notion. and he did offer to have the campaign expert actually testified, but you're right. it would not have been a substantive testimony. i wonder what the appellate court will ultimately see, but i have concerns congressmen more broadly about our system, not just of justice, but in terms of our democracy when there is this perception or there is a narrative to suggest that our legal system or our courts or a

jury trial is somehow so rigged and unfair. >> people ultimately lose faith in the entire system. >> and i've sat through enough trials and heard enough verdicts as, as our nation to know that, you can't pick i can choose whether the system is fair based on the particular outcome of somebody you're aligned with. do you have concerns that by talking about this through the lens you are that you are undermining people's confidence overall in our system no, i don't i don't have those concerns at all. i think that's been undermined by alvin bragg by judge martian, who frankly has been very clear about his support for joe biden. he should have recused himself based upon that. if he was concerned about our institutions, he was not. now, i'm looking at this through the lens of an american citizen and member of congress who's taken an oath to uphold the constitution. i've watched a biden administration spy on the american people and suppress their first amendment rights. i've watched the biden administration ignore supreme court ruling when it comes to student loan balance, which is

unconstitutional, a violation of separation of powers. i've watched the biden administration ignore people's personal health and make them take vaccines against their own will because they wanted to eradicate covid-19 i'm hearing you, but i want to just over talking to i do crissman. >> i'd like you to speak and i really did invite you to have give you opportunity to do so and i will honor that, but i do want to focus on this particular aspect of today's historic announcement because it is part and parcel to what you have been expressing and that is the justice system specifically what my question really is is, do you have concerns that by suggesting that the actual trial was rigged or that it was that the jurors themselves not reached the right outcome. that people will doubt the ability for our system to be thought of as just, i mean, i'll just be frank here in the past, you've spoken out about various verdicts. one in particular involved derek chauvin, a very high-profile trial. i want to just read for you what you said

at the time regardless of the result you said, i urge all americans to respect the verdict and the legal process at this dangerously divided moment in our history, all leaders, regardless of party, must not pour fuel on the fire with more toxic that was this is governor hogan. hold on. i'm sorry. this is governor hogan. i want to read yours. excuse me. i apologize for that, congressman what you had to say in a statement was this my apologies one spade is to be determined by an impartial judicial system that is ultimately in the hands of a jury of your peers. we saw that today, today and every day american should celebrate the fact that we live in a nation that awards every person their day in court and the opportunity for justice to prevail under the blindfold of lady justice. that was the derek chauvin trial verdict statement what has changed so significantly for you to doubt the system so strongly now? >> wait a minute. are we really going to compare derek chauvin to donald trump? no, it's

about what that statement but what what i'm saying is is that you witnessed or railroading prosecution in new york couple that with the fact that you have two men running for president one had classified occupants in his house when he from when he was a vice president and when he was a united states senator. the department of justice has come out and said that we're not going to prosecute because we frankly think he's an elderly gentleman who shouldn't go before prosecution. that's what the her report says conversing who have jack smith seeking those same charges, but hold but you're talking about the justice system. so let's talk about it. you have jack smith with the same situation. actually, not even the same situation, because donald trump is a former president, allowed to have documents under the presidential records act. and jack smith is trying to throw the book at donald trump. we've already seen a two-tier system of justice. and now you're watching it unfold. but this guilty verdict in new york city that's why i'm saying you have a lot of people in our country, a lot of them who are not just republicans, who were looking at this verdict and they are

saying this is a sham, this is politicization of the justice system, of the justice system. this is election interference against donald trump and they view it that way because they see whether its job biden and hillary clinton, they are treated very, very differently than if it's donald trump. you and i both know they'd never brought a charge like this against anybody else in new york city. they bring it against donald trump. why? because they simply want to get him. and that is wrong. you can compare this to derek chauvin. i don't even know what we brought up that statement well, i've wrapped the statement not to compare and nor did i even intimate the derek chauvin and donald trump were synonymous. i was pointing out the nature of your statement about a jury of one's peers and having confidence in the justice system. but it is patently false. a suggests that no one has ever been prosecuted under existing statutes, like the falsification of business records that and in fact is not clear. i know we have to go congressmen and i hear them talking to my ear, but i can't let you go until i asked you this question and that is about

the politics of this. we're talking a great deal about how you believe it's a political motivation. but there's also an election in 100 and what, 59 days from now. and i'm wondering given the fact that there as you say, there for many americans who you believe view this as a travesty, does this conviction help the former president politically only want to talk about it in those veins because this case has been a joke and absolute sham there were the backdrop of this is you have americans looking at our country and the failure of joe biden, who is the master of disaster when it comes to the united states presidency. >> and they're looking at what's happening in their lives contrasting that to what the news media wants to focus on. this case in new york and they're saying to themselves joe biden has been a disaster and they're going after donald trump. this is going to backfire because you have two men running for the presidency, one's done a terrible job and one did a very good job when he was president, despite all the acrimony and a backlash in the

investigations. so i think people are going to look at this and say, if they are really going after donald trump, this hard when he's just trying to run the country again, he did a better job than joe biden shoot. maybe i should be voting for donald trump because what's happening now is truly destructive of our institutions and destructive of our democracy brought to us frankly by the democratic party, whether that's the same level of new york or the federal level under joe biden? >> well, i'll be curious to see if the voters agree with you, but to remind the viewers that we are not aware of the political leanings of the jurors who decided this case. they were 12 of them who were part of the voir dire process. congressman byron donalds. thank you for joining me. >> thank you there remain a lot of big questions tonight after historic verdict can trump still run is he able to vote? >> and willie face any prison time? we're gonna tackle them one by one-by-one. next one of

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pain. >> learn more. it's stokoe.com i learned box on capitol hill well, trump has been convicted. >> so what exactly happens next? trump's legal team is begging to be back in court next week as they appeal the judge's ruling that trump violated the gag order. >> now, three weeks after that, it's the first presidential debate right here on cnn. trump scheduled to be sentenced on july 11th batches four days before the republican national convention, even begins in milwaukee. that's all well and good by the way. but there are still burning question at the top of everyone's mind, like, can he still run for president? well, yes, according to the constitution is he eligible to vote? well, that's questionable and can depend on how sentencing ultimately goes. and we'll trump go to prison

while we don't yet know manhattan da alvin bragg didn't say if he would actually be seeking prison time, but that's in the hands of the judge with b now retired california superior court judge ladoris cordell. she's the author hur honore, my life on the bench, your honor. thank you for joining me this evening. sentencing is coming up about little more than a month away. the big question everyone's mind is, will the judge in that case include prison in the punishment? it could be as high as 20 years, total, up to four per charge, though. would you impose a incarceration sentence before i can answer that? >> and it's important to understand what a judge considers its sentencing. and this is just solely judge merchan. so judges are supposed to look at mitigating factors, aggravating factors if they're a lot of mitigating factors, that means a more lenient sentence if they're aggregators, that means a harsher sentence. so if you look very quickly at mitigating factors for donald trump, well, there's his age, he's a senior citizen, he's almost

80-years-old. he's a first-time offender. that's a mitigator, and he's also not this is not a violent offense, although his words have herds violence. so then on the aggravate or side, you have, first of all, the number of victims and these were voters who are bamboozled because of this hush money. the cover up there's the contempt citations, almost a dozen where he has violated court orders, then there's an issue of recidivism because amiss, he likely to repeat on a scale of one to ten. i gave it a ten. yes, this man is likely to do all of this kind of stuff. again. and finally, a judge looks for remorse, contrition. >> you get up in front of a judge and say, i'm so sorry, i did this. >> i shouldn't have done it. do you think donald trump is going to get up in front of judge merchan, whom he has denigrated repeatedly and do that. >> no so if bodes in my view, if these are the aggravating and mitigating that the judge is definitely going to not just

say okay, give you a slap on the wrist, go home. >> i'll put you on probation for a month. that is not going to happen. a lot depends on the behavior of dollars i'll jump when he's in front of the person he has been insulting repeatedly all through this trial. >> would you consider at all the fact that he is a presidential candidate or even change the sentencing date two beyond the publican convention a two things republican convention? no, i would not change his sentencing date. he's a criminal defendant. he's been convicted that them changed the date for the convention the secondly of with regard to treating him differently. all i can say is that if you're a judge and you're fair if you had a low-income defendant in front of you, who was not remorseful, who called you names, who attacked you, you would impose a harsh sentence. how is that any different from a wealthy man like donald trump, who has done and may do the same thing. so if we want the public to believe and have trust in the system, it cannot have have a

double standard. so what's good for them? low-income person who doesn't behave well is good for this wealthy man who doesn't, who may not behave well and cord as well. so yeah, i mean, absolutely get your toothbrush and maybe he's going to cool his heels for awhile depending upon his behavior. >> i mean, to argue the alternative would be to concede that you do have a two tiered system of justice. judge cordell. thank you so much thank you. my panel is back with me now. i mean, she's talking about changing the convention. obviously, if dredge more shiny things the same way that she does donald trump is facing actual prison time. >> that was remarkable frehse. my judge cordell mean perfect pression analysis by wonderful judge who has done this job. it's going to be such a difficult call for judge merchan. i mean, we've looked at sort of broader studies. there's no case quite exactly like this, but if you look at the comparable pool of cases, the majority one of defendant's somewhere in the 70 to 90% convicted of

comparable crimes do not get prison time. in this, in the new york system. but i think the judge just articulated the contrary argument to me. it feels like a coin toss. what georgia, michigan does hear 50, 50. the other really important question 34 counts before i points, 34 guilty counts 34 guilty counts and a felony matters that matters. he has been held in contempt ten times before this, judge. okay. that's that's not a normal thing. i personally have never had a defendant be held in contempt and then not just get put in ten times. that's a huge deal. he has three open indictments federal and state crimes, and other the presumption of innocence though, is that factor in of of course it factors in but but in, in this particular case, the jury said this was not a porn star hush money case. the jury said he interfered with an election and so that is it doesn't get more serious than that. i think this is one of those ten to 30% that if his name wasn't donald j. trump he would have been incarcerated a long time ago given his

conduct. and this and who he is in these charges, that's what they did not specify what their basis was. they did not make a finding that he interfere with the election. that's just not true. >> they found falsification of business records for some other unnamed crime. that's correct. there wasn't a special verdict form, and so we don't know what target offense they think it might have been. you may have been for the tax the tax count. it may have been for falsification of other records, so we don't know and they never had to agree unanimously on that point. all right. >> correct? exactly. so without having that special verdict form, we don't know what they actually convicted him of. under what theory. now, i do think that she makes great point. there that i had not heard before about the difference between a low-income defendant versus a wealthy defendant with this type of circumstance? i'll tell you one thing. going and i've done sentencing before, judge merchan before. i would not suggest the defendants speak at the sentencing. of course, that's his right. whether he wants to speak are not going to say he's remorseful, which are the key might say. but that

reason, that's the point. i don't think he would say that. so that's why you don't want them to talk. you're going to instead say that my client does still maintain his innocence and he's going through the appellate process. we to believe that there are certain appellate issues here. so don't hold that against him, but instead, focus on issues such as history and characteristics of the defendant lack of criminal history, all of those types of things when you're smiling, why? >> well, first of all, when i heard the congressmen talk about a double standard and didn't answer your question. this is a state prosecution. >> a vote grand jury indictment and the very same crime that the federal prosecutors sent michael cohen to prison for is being disparaged. >> and it's called political when it applies to mr. trump so if you read the federal prosecutors sentencing memorandum of mr. cohen it was very harsh because they call this an attack on democracy, not about hush money and sex.

so i would at least suggest to anyone that considers this to be a double standard. this is new york state. it's a crime mr. comp cannot pardon himself of this crime. and what mr. cohen did is served time federal prosecutors working for trump's justice department said that mr. lu and i have disagreed on this, that mr. trump directed michael cohen who did the time. now, mr. trump has to face the issue is will he do the time to be clear, his federal conviction was not just for the fec violation you have many and the other allegations of fraud allegations, attacks, taxi medallions the sentencing guidelines on those were so high that the fec violation didn't even really move the guidelines up. so he primarily went to jail for the other offenses i don't know about you all, but i'm so curious as to hear a potentially one day from one of the jurors to see what went into their whole consideration is obviously the right not to say anything. but i certainly hope we will get some insight in the future as to what went into this historic

decision to convict by 34 counts, a former president of the united states. thank you to everyone. >> ahead. perhaps the biggest question of all, what will trump's guilty verdict mean for the election in november? there is one we'll fund raising is any indication the 2024 raise just got at super charge cnn central tomorrow let's 17 eastern oh carney isolde. it's got an answer them. that's what i said. >> godden and saada gotten name, got to me, got juicy garden because we carry two home instead. it's personal here's some nuclears in town

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>> during me now cnn senior football commentator, a scott jennings and cnn liberal commentator, van jones, good to see you both gentlemen scotland begin with you here because we know that trump's closest allies, they are really rallying around them, but i do wonder how the guilty verdict plays. >> the republicans who are maybe on the fence leading toward independent or are just not maga i was hearing from a lot of decidedly non maga republicans tonight that they are mortified by this. >> they can't believe the democrats went through with it. they can't believe trump was convicted. they think they should have never been been brought in the first place. a lot of more quiet circuit is going to be thrown out on appeal. so i was looking at statements from politicians. you had people like susan collins and mitch mcconnell even out defending donald trump tonight. so somehow this all heavy effect of rallying every corner of the republican party around donald trump's. so i suspect they are going to raise a massive amount of money and just like we've seen with his other legal entanglements when he's been indicted before. i

think you're going to see a boost of enthusiasm from republicans for trump here. >> well then does that mean money is not always translate to voters in november, we're still significant amount of time away. president biden's campaign is putting on a table the same quote, there is still only one way to keep donald trump out of the oval office at the ballot box. is it getting perhaps trickier though the way that scott explains it, what do you think is the best way for biden to handle trump's conviction? >> well, i mean, first of all, i tried to call this stuff fair i'm of two minds. first of all, it's gotten have you said today is a day donald trump became a felon. today is a day down. trump became a felon and democrats are going to use that because that is a big deal to a lot of people, 34 counts is not a small number of counts and so you will see democrats use that and lean on that. however, on the other hand, i think that you are seeing is rallying effect. i remember when bill clinton got indicted and he

went up like indictment brooklyn got impeached. he went up like ten points. people who didn't like bill clinton at all, just didn't like that process. so there is this martyr affect that then kicks in. and so i think what would joe biden as you recognize is there will be a rallying effect. he's got to deal with for the basis is going to be for the democratic basis is going to be a moment of some kind of vindication but he's got to get that the money from the base now and then turn back to other issues. he's just trying to make donald trump the issue is not working for joe biden, hadn't worked for him so far, is not going to work for him going forward. >> well, scott, i mean, part of the fundraising busari you see is who is beside you, who is supporting you were talking about numbers of congress. but we haven't seen his wife, the former first lady melania. we know that she is in new york, but she didn't attend the trial or even the campaign fundraiser that happened this evening. how important do you think it will be for the campaign for her to be seen by his side yeah i don't know that we have to see her right away, but we are going to need to see

her and people do want to see her. >> i mean, i think she would have a big influence and help the campaign. i remember in october of 2016 after the access hollywood tape, she made a statement that was very helpful. so i don't know what they're gonna do. haven't heard, but if i were them and i could get her to do it, i would definitely put it out. absolutely. >> according to the trial, there was testimony that came in that she herself had been one to initiate a kind of spin following access hollywood and talking about locker room, talk. and so that had a very big role as well. let me ask you that because i want to read for you both. >> larry hogan, who was of course a former governor of maryland and a current republican senate candidate, released a statement urging americans to respect the verdict and the legal process. >> and when he did so, one of trump's senior advisers respond on x saying, you just ended your campaign ban to you. this idea of one's campaign coming to an end. that's not larry hogan thought, but the adviser instead, that by asking

people imploring people to respect the system that could be the nail in your political coffin. what does that tell you where we are right now? >> i mean, this tells you we're an upside down world. i remember when the republican party was the party of law and order and respect for institutions. and now they've become a party of january 6, every day they just don't seem to recognize this guy has gotten more legal protection of donald trump. he's got more lawyers. he's got more shots on goal, you've been by the way, he's gonna be able to appeal. this is not some overthrow of the process. and by the way, if you don't, if you think prosecutor has got too much power and you think judges can sometimes go too far. welcome to my world, were black been saying this for years so they'll suddenly because your guys in trouble, the whole system with garbage. we haven't given up on the system. i don't know why republicans are wait, man, is that man? do you think that he's right to a trump is right to try to say to black male voters that they should be endeared to him because it was only equal troubles?

>> no, i'm just saying i don't know what trump's you do. i'm saying that republicans to be this outrage by one case, they don't like and think the whole system is terrible when you have literally hundreds and thousands dozens of people going through the same system every day. and i don't here republican signup for them. it's just a paper critical. >> scott, real quick to ask, where do you well, i mean, donald trump did stick up for people in the criminal justice system van, you know, because you were there. do you work with them and help them and was proud to do it? >> throughout, do it, but i'm saying the republicans today aren't talking about that. they're talking about one guy and crying about it. simple critical here's what, here's what republicans are mad about. >> we're supposed to be a nation of laws and people are supposed to be tried for breaking laws. and republicans believe in this case, donald trump was tried for big donald trump not for breaking a law. no one can really explain exactly what he was convicted you did for the underlying campaign finance issue. doesn't even exist. he's never been convicted or even indicted for the underlying campaign finance matter. so people are ona fareed, zakaria, laura said on the air the other day, no other defendant not named

donald trump would have been indicted for this, let alone convicted for it. so republicans are feeling a pretty raw about that particular issue tonight. >> i certainly respect for read, but it's a law on the books because people have been prosecuted under it and 12 jurors disagreed. scott jennings van jones. thank you both so much. and thank you all for watching our historic coverage today and it continues with anderson cooper 360 it's next nothing comes close to this place in the morning. >> i'm so glad i can still come here. you see i was diagnosed with obstructive hcm and there were some days i was so short of breath. i thought i'd have to settle for for never stepping foot on this trail again, i became great at making excuses, but i have people who count on me. so i talked to my cardiologist. i said there must be more we can do from my symptoms. he told me about a medication called camp sales. he said camps ios works by tara forgetting what's causing my obstructive hcl. so

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