you can stream it anywhere anytime will get you up to speed and on with your day. cnn's five things with kate bolduan, streaming

absolutely free text dra w to 369369. today, i'm caitlin polantz at the federal court in washington and this is cnn closed captioning is brought to you by you, cora, help maintain a healthy urinary tract with you, cora, i can having utis for ten years. >> you cora. we make uti relief products. we also make proactive urinary tract hello product. ucar is a life stage write today at you core.com cnn breaking news donald trump is a convicted felon, 34 times over. >> and good evening from outside the courthouse and lower manhattan where it all happened just about three hours ago. there simply is no overstate getting what happened in the entire history of this country and of the american presidency. not one president or former president has ever tried or convicted of anything,

let alone multiple so we'll felonies today. a jury of 12 new yorkers supplied that dubious distinction. this is their verdict sheet, guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records cover up a hush money payment to an adult film star made right before the 2016 election. convicted with the 2024 election fast approaching the 45th president the united states running to be the 47 now, back at the gilded skyscraper, he built, that's him arriving back there where he once lived, works and sought out the headlines he saying tonight, headlines that no one with his title or self-image ever has in a moment, we'll talk with presidential historian doors kearns goodwin. but first, i'm political analysts in new york times senior your political correspondent, maggie haberman, who watched the verdict read from the courtroom. you've been there every day. you've been in that courtroom and the courthouse was like it's very hard to describe how intense a moment it was anderson, particularly because we had believed the jurors are being sent home just as much sean had indicated he was going to ask

that the jurors, if they wanted to go home trump walked back into the courtroom in anticipation of that moment in a great mood, one of the best modes we've seen him come in since this trial again and merge sean was taking a while to come comeback city. >> we're going to step off the bench. he was going to figure out what the jury wanted. it was taken so long. it was clear something was up and when he came back, he said that the jurors had said they had reached a verdict they needed another 30 minutes to finish filling out their paperwork, and then they came in. they filed past him one juror appeared to look at him out of the corner of his eye fairly certain that's the juror who the trump team had seen with trump allies, if that was on trump's sayyed and kept channeling that the accounts were unanimous. the foreman stood up, he said guilty, 34 times into a microphone. trump was basically quiet. i've covered a lot of high-profile verdicts in the past are some high-profile verdicts, and usually there is some there's a reaction now they were cautioned not to react, but normally people can't help it. there was just silence. i think that everybody was stunned around trump, including trump

himself. >> and there were silence in the courtroom among the those listening, correct? there was silence among his supporters. >> he was there with a number of his aides, one of his close friends, steve witkoff, his lawyers are obviously all the table, but i think it was pretty clear to the defense team as soon as the judge said the jury had a verdict that it was probably not good news for them. they had felt pretty good about the fact that it had gone as long as it did, they felt like every day and this is just common sense if it's taking the jurors longer, it's better for the defense under two days coming up with this verdict was not going to be good news for them. >> were you surprised? what stands out to you as having made a mark on the jury again, we haven't heard from them as possible to know it could be anything don't want to speculate what got under heads, but clearly, a couple of things we can deduce. one is that the documentary evidence that the prosecutors presented, which was the checks with strong enough the testimony from david pecker, which they asked for several read backs from was clearly pretty strong and there's a reason prosecutor started with david pecker. he was a good witness for them and he really he laid out the case and laid out the story they

were telling and that for all of the energy that we all spend on whether todd blanche dinged up michael cohen and michael cohen definitely had a rough couple of days, but what didn't happen was hung. blanche didn't get under his skin and didn't make him blow up. and cohen was clearly well prepped for that cross-examination and new new some of what to expect. and was braced for it they were not compelled that michael cohen couldn't be believed either is a take. we have to we have to have what do you think happened? since now in the world of donald trump legally does he jettison todd blanche, who knows? >> i mean, in trump's cycles through lawyers in a way that i've never seen anyone else do it. i expect most people haven't legally they're going to file an appeal and i think they're going to have a bunch of things that are going to point to, to say that this should be appealed. they've been talking about what zombie case this was, how it was not supposed to be. it was resurrected alvin bragg, the district attorney, did talk about trump on during his own campaign for da sure. that will come up. there were moments in the trial like stormy daniels

testimony, other rulings by dressed as much merchan, they will raise all of that. they may be successful. we have no idea on cases do get overturned on appeal politically, trump will incorporate this into the same message he's been using since he got indicted, which is that i am being persecuted. there is a witch hunt here. unlike when he had impeachment, he has a target in president biden, who will press its baseless to say president biden has something to do with this trump is able to put a face on it. you're going to see him keep doing that. but does this we're five months from an election. is any voter a going to be swayed by this or care by election day? >> i have no idea yeah. >> in terms of just having been they're all day long. >> we're there moments to you that for you that registered today was look today was was testimony read back? >> and so that was that was a while in the morning. but what did stand out to me was one of the things of the jurors asked for was a rereading a part of the journey. the charging instructions when the when the judge explains the law to the jurors were they wanted to

start was when the judge was using an analogy about rain and that even if you go to sleep one night and the pavements dry, i'm paraphrasing, so forgive me i'm a little off. but if you wake up and we go to bed, the pavements dry, you wake up and it's way you can deduce that it rained and i think that that was significant for the jury and trying to understand what infant and so as they could draw about trump's possible behavior here, i would've bringing seen in a corresponding kara scannell, who was also there is the verdict was read and has been there throughout care the junction has said that he was planning sending the jury home for the de at 430 is as maga saying, he got a note from them saying that they'd reach a verdict from your vantage point, what stood out to you anderson, the mood changed dramatically because the judge came on the bench at 4:15 thing he was going to let the jury leave at 4:30. >> we hadn't heard from the jury's since they went back to deliberate at 11:15 a.m. as we were waiting for the judge to return trump and his lawyers were sitting at the table. they were lapping, they were smiling. it seemed like they expected that this meant no

verdict. they were going to go home and come back the next day, the judge comes back on the bench at 4:36, and he says, i have a note signed by the jury 420. he says they have a verdict. >> the entire mood change. >> trump crossed his arms. the room was still no one was speaking or talking. it was it was extremely quiet and everyone was just sitting there waiting. then the judge came back on the bench. he said that the jury needed 30 minutes let's to fill out the guilty the form. then they came back. he brought them in the jurors walk to the seats in the jury box. they didn't look at donald trump. they normally don't, but they did today either. they went they sat down in their seeds and then the judge asked them, is this true? you have a verdict. the foreman said yes, that they do. then the judge's clerk had we'll set to the foreman going through each of these counts one by one with the foreman saying guilty, guilty. 34 times, while the jury is reading the verdict, trump was sitting in his seat looking straight ahead. then after

that, the judge had asked the head the clerk ask the jury, did everyone unanimously agree that this was there? predict the jurors audibly said guests, and then he asked if anybody wanted the jury polled individually, trump's lawyer, todd blanche, said that he did. and so the clerk will then went through each of the jurors to pull them at that point, trump had turned to look at them and when the jurors answer the questions, most of them were looking directly at the judge, saw some look it's down, none seemed again, to look at donald trump, then the judge had said to the jurors he wanted to thank them for their service. he asked them if they could stay behind because he wanted to talk to them individually once he finished up with what the business was still in the courtroom. so that's when the jurors left. he also think the alternate jurors, he had them brought into the courtroom and to sit in the front row while the jury was delivering the verdict. i've never seen that. usually a jerk the alternate jurors are excused. sometimes they're asked to stay on, but they're not ever brought back in to sit in witness the verdict in the case that they

were so diligently paying attention to over the past seven weeks. after the juror lab, the jury lapped, then the judge merchan spoke to trump's lawyers, who they move for an appeal saying that thought based on michael cohen's testimony, that that he lied on the stand, the judge rejected that, and then they set the sentencing date for july 11. there'll be some motions do before then. so then donald trump was leaving the courtroom. he stood up, he had a frown on his face. his face was red. he walked to the divider and that is when his son, eric trump is sitting right behind finds him. he reached out to eric trump's hand, shook it vigorously, and then as he was walking past eric trump, eric padded his father on the back and then trump walked out the center aisle of the courtroom and headed to the cameras where he spoke. certainly a dramatic de i talked to someone in trump's camp who was telling me afterwards, he said that trump was in good spirits and ready to fight. that was not the expression as he was walking out of the courtroom, he looked a bit wounded in. i don't want

to speak for him, but he he looked that upset when he was walking out of that courtroom with a frown on his face and his face reddened in an appearance, anderson yeah. >> i want to play actually a clear of what trump said after court today. let's watch this this was a disgrace. >> this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt. the real verdict is could it be november 5th by the people? and we didn't do anything wrong have a very innocent man will keep fighting or fight til the end. and we'll win there was a sort of a little conference they had before he came to the cameras with boris perception that as stephen miller and others i assume talking about what he would say, what did you make his comments? i'm going to think that it's the posture that we always see donald from take, which is that he's going to fight, that he is showing that there's no crack and in the the face that he's putting on for the world that is being tough. and he has said he had said versions of this to some people. he has spoken to i

don't know whether that's actually how we feel the thing. i always think about is my colleague jonathan swan when he was at axios reported right after trump was impeached the first time that he had chosen house republicans, it's not the kind of thing you want on your resume. this isn't a i don't think you wanted to resume either what this is, however, is something that could fracture the country in a way that impeachment did not yeah, maybe haberman. >> thank you. kara scannell as well. we'll get to the remaining legal questions in a moment. first, want to talk about the gravity, the history of this day joining us legendary presidential historian doris kearns goodwin, doors, what is your reactions? to this moment in our country even as i was waiting for the verdict, i kept imagining what would be like 50 years from now, what historians would today and i think what they will say in part is depends on what we do with this on november 5th. >> but what those say about now is that a system of important part of a system of democracy worked today that the rule of law was as the judge said, he's your peer, the defendant issue appear. no man is above

the law and i think they'll seem this child, at least so it seemed to all of us watching it that there was a fundamental fairness that the judge was an extraordinary character. he led both sides have their say and the jury spoke first, the lawyer speak than the experts in the media speak and finding those 12 people speak and while the jury system is never perfect as no institution is, it's a hallmark of democracy. i think that's the first thing that'll be written in the chapters of history later on, then the question will be, how does the public received this verdict? is it going to be fractured like the country? will there be many people who agree with president trump, former president trump that it was rigged how many of those people were there be? will it make a difference that this verdict is there to those people that are undecided, those people that are independent? how will this citizens are going to write the next chapter of this story that maybe even more important part is to come in a lot. will ride on how this candidate chooses

to use this as a cudgel or to use this there's clearly no sense of shame but how does this candidate choose to kind of weaponize this if he chooses to do that even more so than he's already done. >> on during this campaign. i mean, to desi doubled down on attacking the pillars of democracy, doubled down on attacking the judicial system. the jury we, know what we've seen really in the past, which tells us the likelihood of what he'll do now in the present, when the election was lost in 2020, again, most legal systems who looked at that election said it was fundamentally fair as i think they may about this jury system. >> and yet he was able to persuade by doubling down a lot of people that the election was not lost. it led to january 6 at that time, i thought that had made a difference and that everything would be changed. so even as i say that now that this is going to have a fundamental effect on people, i do feel, however, that i don't know that 71% of the people as a current poll say it won't matter that this verdict came in and i think when people look at it, they're going to wonder

something went on during this thing somehow the prosecution was able to make a story that had a beginning, a middle, and that persuaded those jurors that something bad happened and i wonder how many people are going to feel that as well. and do we really want to have as somebody, as our leader who sets an example that you cannot accept a loss neither in 2016, the potential loss and do something to change the rules of the game. or in 2020 again and somehow you just know that if you have a kid and they lose something you want them to accept it with grace. and i don't suspect that's going to happen, but it's gonna be up to us to make an educated understanding of what the jury system meant. justice we should have made and we did through those hearings in january 6, make it but then it all got lost again in our fractured country united spoke on a lot of difficult days in this country over the last several years. >> and i'm wondering, and you are an optimist and that comes out, i just finished reading your new book. i mean, your

optimism comes out in the pages of what you write. do you think this is a will be a positive or negative moment for american democracy i guess what i really do believe is that it will be a positive moment in the sense that i understand what the former president will do. >> he will say it's rigged. he'll say we're a declining country that we're a banana republic. i don't think most people feel that way about our country. and hardly any election has ever been won by just tearing down the country and making it seem like a terrible place i mean, the economy has difficulties, but we're still the best economy in the world right now. now unemployment is at a certain rate. people are feeling their daily lives moving along. we'd begun to move away from covid it's gonna be hard to make that understanding that were in tears terrible shape, and that the cold system. now it's not only the electoral system that's rigged, but now the jury system is rigged at a certain level. people understand what democracy is when you waited for that decision, as i did, i felt that sense of emotional visceral connection to what democracy

means that sometimes in a distraction, it's the same thing you feel when you walk into the voting booth and you mark your opinion and you mark your vote and you realize millions of other people hello, doing the same thing. and that's going to determine whether we throw the characters out or we bring new ones in. and somehow i think democracy is going to be made to feel real. and that's going to be the challenge of this next election. and whether it's worth saving and i think most people believe it absolutely is doris kearns goodwin. >> it's great to talk to you. thank you thank you. would be here tonight and you're new york criminal defense attorney arthur aidala, former new york judge. you'll khan visor who is known judge merchan for where the 15 years also with this johnny jones, the third former chief judge for the us middle district of pennsylvania. judge called visor it happens now, engineers the legal process in terms of the legal process. now, generally a case would be adjourned for sentence. you heard todd blanche make an application before the job judge today where he asked for another motion to dismiss. it was summarily denied, but the

judge did craft motion schedule, so it is now adjourned. caring for defense counsel to file motions what's called a 33030 motion, which is the statute which is post-conviction, pre-sentence for emotional than to dismiss that people will will be able to respond. that's why the sentence date is so long. i've motion to dismiss post conviction pre-sentence can be based on one of three things. one being newly discovered evidence, which certainly todd blanche doesn't have at this moment, whether or not there was some inappropriate conduct by the jury sorry, which presumably he doesn't have at this moment. and the other would be something that happened during the trial that would automatically would've been automatical automatic? at a reverse on appeal, which i don't think he has either, but that is what the motion will be. the people will have a chance to respond. the judge will render the decision if he grants it granted, if he denies it, the case will move to sentence, which we heard would be july 11, joe joneses in

terms of sentencing what would you expect? >> well, as you look at in sentencing anderson, you look at the factors such as punishment, appropriate punishment deterrence, and rehabilitation station, and i'm moved to say that you can throw out the third factor, rehabilitation that's not going to come into play and they've former president it's not going to be contrite in any respect be he'll appeal and he's not going to admit to the conduct. so there's a whole sort of ball of wax to the judge considers, among other things you don't operate in a vacuum. the fact that he's under indictment and other places can be used his his conduct during the trial, the fact that he sustained almost a dozen contempt penalties, all those things come into play.

but what judge bichon is going to have to do as the judge guess, nose is tune out a lot of the noise the same way that he did during the trial. and look at this as he would look at any other case with the unique factors that attend this particular defendant and make the best call that he can. he's looking at a maximum of four years. he's not gonna give him four years. he's probably going to sentence him concurrently on these counts. but it's also the numerality counts do you think they would actually be in person time i think there could be there's. >> a lot that i don't know and it gets into the realm of speculation. but it's possible the judge varchar and wants him to see the inside of a jail now, for a period of time arthur, you've been critical of the prosecution case. i don't

know if you were surprised by the speed of the verdict by the verdict itself wasn't it out when you and i were on two nights ago and i heard the judge's charge as soon as i heard what the way the judge crafted the charge. yeah, that's the part of the trial where the judge really gets to insert but they're personality is really the time when they are interacting with the jury. and this particular charge, unlike 99% of them where a judge's reading out of i got three ring binder pattern durians trojans. he got to craft a lot of it on his own and i think he made the prosecutors road to a conviction a lot easier. and then when i heard that they wanted pecker's testimony cohen's testimony to put them together and see how they jive up. i mean, if i'm the prosecutor last side, i'm going to bed feeling pretty good judge. kind of vices. correct. about the third 330 motion since but they very rarely are successful i think that judge mug shot will look at statistics of the state of new york and then the city of new york about non-violent e felonies at year-old men almost never been in trouble and what

the typical and what the meatless jordi or financial like. oh, yeah. right? their financial and nobody really goes to jail in those cases, you would agree that i mean i saw statistics is overwhelmingly seem like it's a financial penalty, not a joke. well, overwhelmingly people don't go to jail for this particular crime, but i think as the other guests said, certainly the judge cannon should take into consideration behavior on the defendant during this trial. >> and he will. but the judge has an entire panoply or menu of things he can do. it can be a fine i can be an unconditioned national discharge, a conditional discharge means you have to stay out of trouble, which presumably would it could be a jail sentence, meaning local, it could be an intermittent sentence meaning weekend ends, it could be state prison as well, or probation. so there's a whole list service maybe judge yeah. >> i would be interested and, i would like judge catalyzes opinion. i think that may be the hardest task for this

particular judges to come up with a sentence because it wouldn't be community service go clean some parts. parks, make the city a little better. >> you're not gonna do that with donald trump and his secret service and all the things. >> although i would say jen kind visor, i would say mr. trump, i'm going to give you and yourll me why you what you could do, what community service, what could the trump organization do to make the city of new york a better place to live. but what you citizens police athletic league are things like that, judge, go ahead. >> here's here's the problem. >> you know, at whatever he sentences. >> the former president to. he's going to continue to run his mouth and he's going to continue to denigrate the the judicial system and the system of justice. generally, i was watching doris kearns goodwin the fact that matter is that this sky has now been by my count in front of three judges. this year to juries he has hundreds of billions of dollars the penalties and fines. and now 34 felony counts. and with

all due respect to say that he's not going to stay out of trouble in many counts pending. so you have to take the whole picture. you when you sit in sub i obviously don't know what judge merchan is going to do, but this is a really difficult case. for the judge to just say, well, lightly, i'm not going to put him in prison for any period of time. i don't think that's a given judge jones appreciated judge kohn buys arthur aidala as well. >> thank you. coming up next, what the current president is campaign are saying about the verdict also, bob woodward and carl bernstein take they join us live and later ronan farrow, who is reporting on caption kill, gave people in early and vivid picture of the story, the center of these charges, we'll be right back i was stuck unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more for my antidepressant ray. >> laura helped give it a lift adding velar to an

antidepressant is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone. and in real are clinical studies, most on no substantial impact on weight and lily dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts, anti the presence can increase these in children and young adults report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion as these may be life-threatening or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent, high blood sugar, which can let me to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness or common side effects stomach and sleep issues with dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common when side effects may not appear for several weeks i didn't have to change my treatment. >> i just gave it a lift ask about velar and learn how abbvie can help you save now, adt professionally installs google nest products you're all set on this system. we should go with the most trusted name in home security as the intelligence of google, you

have a home with no worries brought to you by adt you've got better things to do than clean out clog gutters, call me un-filter today and never clean out clog gutters again, we filters technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good guaranteed. coli three through the filter today if it's simply filter.com and alternative to pills, ball terrane is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory let us in directly at the craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office... [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg's moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don's paying so much for at&t, he's been waiting to update his equipment! there's a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don't have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities.

better science, better results i'm under rajah and capitol hill. this is cnn sentencing, for the former president. and i don't think anyone ever imagined saying that is sent from the 11th of july, manhattan district attorney hey, alvin bragg was asked tonight whether he'd seek prison time. >> he did, however, praise his team of prosecutors and the jury's dedication the 12

every, day jurors vowed to make a decision based on the evidence and the law and the evidence and the law alone their deliberations lead them to a unanimous conclusion. beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant, donald j. trump, is guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree to conceal a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election present biden is not officially weighed in on the verdict on a personal social media account he posted, quote, there's only one way to keep donald trump out of the oval office at the ballot box. >> cnn's kayla tausche is at the white house for us and i what was the scene inside the west wing is according to was announced and worth the reaction well, anderson, i talked to a few officials this afternoon who described the mood inside the west wing as employees being transfixed by the time hello, visions that are mounted in the west wing, they are tuned into four concurrent cable channels,

which were all running the same headlines essentially at the same time, and that they were stunned when the verdict came in, actually, just a few moments ago, caught a senior administration official leading the west wing and i asked for his response and he raised his eyebrows and said simply, it matters the official response we got from the white house very brief, very much on-brand. >> it was from the white house counsel's office, and it said simply, we respect the rule of law and we have no further comment. president biden is in delaware, aids travel playing with him declined to provide to us or the traveling press pool with him details of exactly how the president learned of this historic verdict where he was and what he was doing who delivered that news to him. and we just got his public schedule for tomorrow. anderson, there is no nothing in the schedule that would indicate that he would be delivering public remarks it's on this. although you can bet that reporters are going to be trying to ask him about this when they see him on his way back to washington, dc in the morning so no no talk of any kind of change and campaign

strategy are given the verdict i think it's safe to say anderson that aids are already trying to figure out exactly how prominently this verdict needs to figure in the debate in just a few weeks and the campaign has already been ratcheting up its language in recent days and in the wake of that verdict, the campaign's seized on that moment. they blasted off a written statement, tweets, text messages, emails all indicating that they needed grassroots support. and even in one warning that potentially trump could see record fundraising on the back of this decision and one of them saying convicted felon or not trump will be the republican nominee for president. but in recent days, anderson, that strategy that where they've taken it up to 11 essentially has gotten some mixed reviews. we've seen both david axelrod, a top democratic strategists, and kate betting field who has a longtime confident of president biden's pan, the strategy of putting robert de niro and the january 6 officers at that press conference saying that it was a waste of resources and that it fed directfed directly into the narrative. and that that's

what they should be trying to avoid. >> good luck township thanks very much. want to get perspective now from two legendary investigative reporters, bestselling authors and eyewitnesses. and more than five decades american history, cnn, political analyst, or burned i'm staying and bob woodward, better known in the opposite order, woodward and bernstein. so carl, can you put the gravity of this moment is some perspective. >> it's momentous former president the united states, is a convicted felon in a case in which the facts were evidence and there's no question that the rule of law has prevailed here. >> but it's still is incendiary in terms of where this country is right now it's like pouring gasoline on a fire already burning tropical response that we've heard already saying that this emanated with the president and biden, that he's responsible for this prosecution. i have to say i know of no one in the white house. bob might know of someone who wanted this

prosecution to proceed. that in fact, the view and the white house was that this was not a good idea, that there is a very serious case of a january 6, the incitement of a sedition newest riot by the president of the united states. that's the case that people in the white house would like to see go forward and ought to go forward one thing we ought to think about it on this evening when we hear donald trump talk about the supposed prejudice of this judge because of his daughter having political opinions and working for democrats. let's take a look at supreme court justices alito and thomas and their conflicts of interests that really raised through a serious level, we got to be serious about the rule of law and this country. and that's what all of these events are about bob, i mean, you've interviewed the foreign present at great length over the years. >> what did you think of the

verdict? and where we are now? >> well, i first saw and did not expect a quick verdict, and so i thought, oh, maybe the country is not as divided as i thought and then to be honest, i tuned in to fox news and it's just another chapter in the political wars. this is not a about the law or whatever. and they're people who may love the verdict. people who hate it but that's the battleground. and one thing i think we have to agree with president former president trump ban is this is going to be decided on election day, november 5. it's not going to be decided back and and what has happened here is a little bit of a blip frankly,

everything's a blip because it all feeds into the narrative of this completely divided country that can't agree on much of anything and hopefully, will be settled november 5th carl, i mean, do you think a convection this conviction changes anything for better or worse about the norms and expectations from presidents in american luck, i think donald trump has changed every expectation about norms for presidents of the united states of america, bob and i reported on nixon at great length. >> his crimes. he was a criminal president of the united states as we wrote in a four to the 50th anniversary edition of all the president's men, trump has outdone nixon in terms of criminality, in terms of being a constitutional criminal in terms of being in

the first seditious president of the united states, we could not have dreamed that after nixon, there would be such a president and the contempt for the rule of law and for the norms and constant the two phenyl regular order bob, i mean, there used to be a sense of shame in public life. >> i mean, i don't know if nixon felt shame but did that just is non-existent anymore. it seems like, i mean, none of that nobody feels it seems like shame for a conviction like this. this is now just fuel for to try to invigorate this person's campaign. now, for this divided country yes, maybe some people feel shame but on the other hand, people's say, i mean, again, listen to fox news as far as they're concerned. >> i mean, just in full body

assault. this is the crime this is their echoing what trump has said. i remember in one of my interviews with trump in 2020, his last year in office is precedent. he'd been impeached, as you may recall and we're down at mar-a-lago interviewing him about this and he said with this kind of fire, no one is tougher than me and i think that's the way he looks at this. he's going to tough it out. if you compare this with 50 years ago, it's quite fascinating. this summer in august will be the 50th anniversary of nixon's resignation and look 50 years ago how the republican party responded to nixon. there's a

scene and the book carl and i did the final days where in august there is information coming out in the tapes that shows clear criminality on the part of nixon. nixon meets with the republican leaders and barry goldwater the conscience of republican party. i think it's proper to call him that. and nixon says, well, how am i gonna do i know i'm going to be impeached, charged how will i do in a senate trial and he would need 34 votes to stay in office because it's two-thirds, 67 to remove him and so he said this and other republican leaders say berries we've selected him as our spokesman and goldwater's says,

mr. president, i've counted and you in a senate trial, you have five votes in one of them is not why one of the most dramatic moments in presidential history. the next day, nixon announced he was resigning not sure that would be the case today. bob woodward. thank you. carl bernstein as well. just ahead, the catch and kill scheme at the heart of prosecutors case against the former president. and the testimony that may have helped him as the jury to vote guilty on all counts. ronan farrow author of the bestseller, detailed the scheme. join us next liberty mutual customize my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. >> i know i've been telling everyone how many people did you tell? only pay for what you

need like you're calling some people find there's at an early age others later in life are calling was to build trucks. and that's why trucks are what we do we put our everything and every truck so that when you find your court fallen nothing can stop you from answering right now, during the ram memorial day sales event, get $1,000 cash allowance on the purchase of

of customers would recommend saada to friends and family saada luxury mattresses made affordable, close captioning is brought to you by you, cora, help maintain a healthy urinary tract with you, cora, i can having eg is for ten years. you cora. we make uti relief products. >> we also make proactive urinary tract health products. you cora is a life stage tried today at your core.com read everything. yeah. i got you. >> the jury's guilty verdict on all counts against the former president came after all 12 jurors spend the morning

hearing, read backs of testimony much by david pecker, the former publisher of the national enquirer prosecutors in the summation on tuesday, had called his testimony by the catch and kill scheme utterly joined now by journalist ronan farrow so author of the 2019 bestseller, catch and kill, which explored the scheme at the center of the trial. first of all, just your reaction hearing those verdicts. >> well, i think it's meaningful to note that this is a story that came out through investigative reporting first, not just at the new yorker where we broke some of these stories, but also a whole circle of publications, the wall street journal did amazing work closing the first story is about stormy daniel's that's worth noting because it is a reaffirmation of how important the presses to our democracy and a lot of us who worked on this story. you also were in receipt of some of this when you did your interview with karen mcdougal, really got a lot of blow back when i was first exposing the rumor of the love child and the suppression of that story karen mcdougal details the enquirer and they came after me so hard and it was my job at the time to not

linger on that or talk about it publicly too much. but i do think it's worth noting now, in retrospect because it was a hard price to pay, it messed me up for a long time and i'm still recovering from some of the things they did. have you talked to sources, you had in that industry. >> now about this verdict, what they think yeah. >> and it's fascinating because of course the flip side of how vindictive that empire was and going out for people is that there were good people within it who became sources for the wall street journal for the new yorker, for people like you had cnn and they helped expose this thing. and that's really meaningful. two and for a lot of those good people who did help with that exposure, what they're telling me even in conversations today is a, we wish we weren't associated with this filthy enterprise of catching and killing stories for the enquirer. and b, that they knew at the time that the good people target leaking because they knew that they were too closely associated with something that might not just be sleazy, but also

illegal. >> it's ensuring that the jury wanted to hear back david the testimony from david pecker, i mean, you've talked to all along as we've been talking throughout this trial, of pecker's importance prosecutors put him first for a reason. >> yeah, that's right. and i think in retrospect it's gonna be regarded as a really canny move that the prosecution lead with that context because the stormy daniels transactions and their concealment don't make sense without first establish well, showing that there was this conspiracy between ami and donald trump that that meeting at trump tower in 2015 really did hatch a plan to subvert the election as prosecutors said and the thing about that earlier meeting and the prosecutor's telling it to the jury that it's a significant end. the jury than asking afterwards, really was the first bellwether that the verdict it's gonna go the way it did. i have sources within ami who told me today when we heard that news, when we heard they were asking about the trump tower meeting, asking about pecker, we understood that the jury he bought the premise can get into them by the process, which essentially because todd blanche in his closing spent a lot of time

basically undercutting, trying to undercut that meeting and undercut the importance of the national enquirer and saying, well, it's absurd to think that they care that the trump campaign karatay sumatra thought that this was such an important public and they clearly did. they held this meeting and it was trump and cohen approaching pecker, not pecker approaching about how can i help them approaching? about what can you do for the campaign. >> and that's why it's relevant that so many sources around those people who were in those rooms are close to those rooms, executing these transactions had these misgivings at the time knew what it was and saw it the way the prosecution ultimately framed it for this jury. >> do you think do you think there's any room for appeal? do them you're an attorney yourself. do you think? i'm the other question is how trump uses this moving forward well, we're in a crazy political reality, right? >> where on cable news all night tonight, people have been saying well, could this be great for donald trump? how galvanizing is this going to be? and of course, we're already seeing his campaign, try to use this as a fundraising opportunity, but the truth is, the future of how he's going to be sentenced. it is quite uncertain. it is true

that jail time is fairly unusual for this particular type of legal theory. in this particular type of charge, which often happens in tax cases but this is. an unusual case. so in some ways, all bets are off because also the stretch is not afraid to send people to jail. weisselberg went to jail under the stretch. so we'll have to see what the actual legal precautions are and then how that bears out for the election. and i think that regardless of the electoral impact, anderson, this is something that's shown a light on a really sleazy damaging to individuals, but also to our democracy precede model of suppressing the truth. >> how much credit should stormy daniels get for coming forward? >> i think immense credit, certainly for overtime, including in this trial getting these details even in situations where it it was painful, and look, there were moments in the history of her involvement in this story where she was obviously willing to participate and suppressing this for perhaps understandable personal reasons. so the full ark of her coming around and being a witness for the

prosecution and the way she was makes her very consequential part of what is now an historical moment. did you were you surprised that it was? so guilty on all counts and because there was a lot of talk in the last couple of days, well, maybe they'll just do some counts. not all. >> yeah. i think one is always surprised by this kind of unanimity is kind of a cross the board verdict that said those sources who are in the room for some of this stuff at ami and who saw that first sign of, hey, these jurors? for asking about the underlying conspiracy that means perhaps they're buying into the whole premise of the prosecution is giving them that makes it a little less surprising in retrospect, and it is true when i saw that news, it was my first moment of going and thinking maybe the prosecution in having evidently executed you did a very skillful case was going to prevent ronan farrow. >> thank you. thanks. or some appreciate it. >> joining democratic congressman jamie raskin, who was the lead impeachment manager in the house during the former president second impeachment trial, congressman, your reaction to this historic verdict well, i felt some

relief and vindication for the rule of law. >> i've been traveling around the country. i've been to 20 states now and so many people have said to me along the road, they just don't feel like the law can ever really catch up to the level of lawlessness that we've seen. and so the jury system works in america and a judge who follows the law scrupulously wherever it will lead for the state or for the defendant, that works. that feels good. i felt also a certain sense of vindication. i got to tell you, as a politician because what we do in our businesses, we go to work and we tried to make people's lives better. we tried to make improvements sinn infrastructure or prescription drug prices are protecting the right to choose. and then we go out and we asked people for their votes and the thing that's gotten to me about

donald trump is he doesn't want to go through that process of really setting forth the program and asking people for his votes every time he's gotten in really serious trouble, it's been because he's tried to shake down the ukrainian president, zelenskyy to try to set up joe biden and lie about joe biden or here in this case, he wanted to pay hush money to keep something out of the news away from the voters, or he wanted to stage and incite an insurrection against the peaceful transfer of power those are all assaults on democratic norms and democratic processes. and i feel like today was a victory, at least a minor victory for the rule of law. and also for democrats put politics and i guess the other thing that crossed my mind was how central women have been to bringing donald trump to justice. stormy daniel, daniel's in this case, e. jean carroll in the civil case where he was adjudicated a

sexual assailant and of course, he has made such outrageous of fronts to women and declared himself to be a violator of women's privacy and autonomy and there's a little bit of poetic justice that it's come back to haunt him do you think he should go to jail to me. >> it's, it's irrelevant. i mean, the major thing is that the rule of law work you know, i'm a liberal person. i don't take joy in people being sent to jail and going through that kind of suffering. it's conservatives like donald trump who called for the death penalty against some innocent young men in new york and who want to lock everybody up, including hillary clinton. that's not the way i feel as illiberal and i don't want to inflict any suffering on

anybody, but i do want to see that the rule of law works and is vindicated against these incessant outrageous attacks on the rule of law do you think this has any impact on the presidential race on on candidate donald trump's can chances for being re-elected you know, i'm not sure. i'm not really in the prognostication business i'm more in the mobilization business and i've said from the beginning that we need to mobilize the vast majority that voted for joe biden in 2020 and expand that with all of these millions of young new voters in america to fight for a future. that's befitting the greatest multicultural, multi-religious, multiracial democracy on earth, like that's what we've got to do. and that's going to be inactive will and organizing education encouraged. so i'm

not going to sit back and look at it as a spectator like, whoa, what effect might this have we have seen so many lawless assaults on our democracy, whether it's voting rights whether. it is the rights of women to choose their own destiny and their own medical privacy issues and we've got to stand up for all of that. so i would hope that people would at least consider this as part of the overall picture of what we're struggling to defeat and get beyond in america gosh, one raskin. >> thanks for your time. thank you. we saw the former president returned to trump tower earlier. tonight's is short for time ago he left. when we come back, what we're learning about, where he went,

then we'll go back i've always been an active person biking, running, but yoga, it's really special to me. >> it's definitely a big part of who i am and i love the way it makes me feel. but there was a time not long ago but when i felt i had to accept the idea of hanging up this old yoga mat you see, i have symptomatic obstructive hcm, which left me so short of breath. i just couldn't get out here, making me feel like a bystander in my own life. so i talked to my cardiologist and he told me about camp science. he said camps ios works by targeting what's causing my obstructive hcm. so he prescribed and i'm so thankful he did.

>> kim as cellulose is used to treat adults with symptomatic obstructive hcm. kim xylose may improve your symptoms and your ability to be active. kim's ios may cause serious side effects, including heart failure that can lead to death, a risk that's increased if you develop a serious infection or irregular heartbeat or when taking certain other medicines. so do not stop, start or change medicines or the dose without telling your health care provider, you must have echocardiogram before and during treatment seek help if you variants new or worsening symptoms of heart failure because of this risk, cams ios is only available through a restricted program before taking camps. ios, tell your doctor about all of your medical conditions including current or planned pregnancy with camhs ios, reducing my symptoms. i've gone from sitting on the sidelines to being back in the game. my name is stephanie and this is my kim's ios moment call your cardiologists today and see if a camp xylose moment maybe in your future to moving forward with node positive breast cancer. my fear of recurrence could have held me back, but

i'm staying focused in doing more or to prevent recurrence for his neo is specifically for hr positive her2 negative note positive early breast cancer with a high chance of returning as determined by your doctor when added to hormone therapy by being presenting you reduces the risk of recurrence versus hormone therapy alone. diarrhea is common, may be severe or cause dehydration or infection at the first sign, call your doctor started antidiarrheal and drink fluids before taking presenting you tell your doctor about any fever chills are other signs of infection resenting you may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death, life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about it any new or worsening trouble, breathing, cough, or chest pain? serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising, blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain, and rapid breathing or heart rate or your nursing pregnant or planned to be i'm focusing on what counts talk to your doctor about reducing your risk i'm zachary cohen and washington and this is cnn short time ago, the

former president was seen leaving his new york city home at trump, tower in manhattan. we understand these heading to a private residence in the city tonight, miguel marquez is that trump tower? so did the former president interact with the crowd when he arrived he did. >> he got here about an hour or so after that verdict was handed? >> dan, i can tell you there's only a few trump supporters out here right now and in front of trump tower itself, police have completely shut down the street. but as his motorcade pulled up on 50 six streets he walked up to fifth avenue and wave to the few people that were out here that was mostly tourists, kinda just confused and not sure what was going on. some people we're cheering, some people were shouting lock them up lock him up but it was a bit of confusion. most of the people gathered here today and there have been lot throughout the day are mostly tourists from other countries very curious what's going on behind me, anderson yeah. >> where did people saying to

you they they want to know if he's here, they want to know what's happening. >> they want to know if he is going to to remain here through july 11th through the sentencing? there are some of his people who support donald trump who are here that never surrender signs with the mug shots is very popular here. they had a lot of people with that throughout the day. a lot of people coming up and saying, this is a very good day for america. very pleased with the proceedings in court and the conviction of donald trump so as with everything in this country, it's a real mix. i'm a little surprised that there hasn't been more of a outpouring here on both sides, but it's been for the most part, literally plea tourists from around the world who are just really curious about what's happening anderson miguel marquez, thanks very much former fbi deputy director andrew cave joins us now. i'm in new york, doesn't pause for long this is his usual

hearings. just in short-term and long-term security implications for this. what do you think there? >> jurors particular. yeah. so for the jurors and the witnesses, they are going to be a primary importance their security this this will play very resonate very deeply in this narrative if of grievance that extremists hold these sorts of things are very powerful. they serve as elements of the recruiting and radical stories that'll be told for years and years. this will not go away in that very small extreme as community. >> so it's also returned that'll be around. it's also something that this the former president is going to use to try to amplify that as much as possible. it's not as if it's just some holdouts i'm wearing a cabin fuming about this. this is the foreign parties in the united states running to be the current president. and the next president. fueling this and repeatedly saying these rigged elections and regardless of how that election turns out, he

will continue to say those things until the end of his days. so this will not go away in the short term where i still working with others to protect the city, i'd be worried about the sentencing date that is a date certain. there's enough time for people to plan things if they are intending to do that sort of thing today kinda caught people by surprise, i think with how quickly the verdict came in. so that wasn't really an ideal moment to either protest or take action. but the sentencing could be a different story. i'm curious to see if jurors decided to come forward to speak about their process i would understand why they would want to kind of explain what they do and i could also understand them wanting to fade into to remain anonymous. absolutely. from a purely security perspective, very bad idea to publicly identify themselves. i'm sure that there are many people that are racing to try try to identify them now, it's almost impossible to believe that that will never occur obviously, they want to hold that off as long as possible. >> if the four is actually sent to prison, seems unlikely given

traditional sentence seeing this, but who knows, the secret service? >> how did they how did they work that i think it's an unlikely result as well, although not impossible, you look at him, not as a former president purchasing because it's simple defendant, he's shown absolutely no remorse and attack the system and the result from the beginning de is that's not a good way to approach your sentencing as far as the service is concerned. the hardest part for them will be in preparation because obviously they've never done anything like this before, but if he's given some sort of confinement sentence, whether that's home confinement or into some sort sort of an institution once he's there and they have that setup, it'll be pretty easy for them because we've been in a controlled space in terms of the his security though. i mean, secret service in the courtroom. he had like two secret service agents with him. it was court officers, right. in a prison setting, i guess he would it would be the prison officers, but also a few secret service i find it almost impossible to believe that hill ever be in a traditional prison sentence. >> are a traditional prison

environment? he may be sentenced to some sort of a state controlled facility that doesn't have other prisoners in it. >> no matter where he ends up. if it's in a state facility, there'll be some combination of prison officials. and of course, he would surveyor we gave but thank you very much. appreciated. the news continues in a moment right here on cnn this, is cnn breaking news i'm good evening. >> i'm erin burnett outfront tonight. breaking news. donald trump convicted the former president of felon a jury tonight, finding trump guilty of 34 felony charges. the first american president to be found guilty of a crime. and this is a moment in history. >> this this is the official signed verdict sheet, page after page three of them guilty, as you can see on all 34 charges related to falsifying business records in order to conceal a hush money payment to stormy daniel's now