i don't want you to move. i'm gonna miss you so much.

you realize we'll have internet waiting for us at the new place, right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene. transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity. - television on! - hbo did a lot of its best work - when it was bending a genre. - take something that's familiar - and give it some chili pepper. - advertising is based on one thing: happiness. - [shouting excitedly] - is there any taboo that you wouldn't break? - not if there was a funny idea. - what is wrong with you? - there's so much different storytelling - and so many different stories being told - about so many different people.

- i don't think dramatic series television has ever been stronger. - there's no longer this theory of what - popular entertainment must be. - incoming! - who are the heroes? the people who watch this show. [slowly building orchestral music] ♪ ♪

- this is the week when the major broadcast networks unveil their fall lineup of shows, and every executive in hollywood knows how well "the sopranos" is doing on cable, which is a network problem. - i think hbo altered everything for this reason alone, is there were no commercials. - we are dependent on sponsors. there is so much we can do in terms of language, in terms of violence, and in terms of sex. - to a large degree, a lot of executives were just sanding off the edges of what was interesting. [static hums] [bright tone] - i think hbo is looking at the world and going, "okay, how can we matter?" for quite a long time, movies and boxing where the bread and butter of hbo. - people watch your show because you're partly an [bleep]. - and i think what we've learned through shows like "larry sanders show" or "oz" is that we could do series television. - there's something in the air...

and it ain't love. - "oz" was cutting-edge in what it was willing to share with the audience. - hit me. hit me! [grunts] hit me in the face, brother. - complicated characters, complicated issues, and the way it was presented was so, uh...unique. - sentence: nine years. up for parole in six. - what they were doing at hbo was exactly what the network wasn't doing. they were breaking barriers. - innocent. - you get to "the sopranos," and all of a sudden, the villain is the hero. - have some eggplant. - i told you, i'm not hungry. - now you won't even accept food from your own mother. - "the sopranos" was david chase's invention about this mob family-- something that people hadn't seen before, the idea that a mobster is seeing a therapist. - what ever happened to gary cooper? the strong, silent type? that was an american.

he wasn't in touch with his feelings. he just did what he had to do. see--see, what they didn't know was, once they got gary cooper in touch with his feelings, that they wouldn't be able to shut him up! and then it's dysfunction this and dysfunction that and dysfunction va fangoul! - you have strong feelings about this. - every decade, you get somebody like peter falk as columbo or carroll o'connor as archie bunker-- somebody you just can't imagine anybody else afterwards. and james gandolfini is that in tony soprano. - i think it's supposed to be a mafia story, but, i mean, it's-- like i said, it's-- - it's also about everyday life. - did you know that an italian invented the telephone? - alexander graham bell was italian? - you see? you see what i'm talking--antonio meucci invented the telephone, and he got robbed! everybody knows that. - who invented the mafia? - what? - "the sopranos" kind of took the mystery out of being a mobster. [steely dan's "dirty work" playing] - ♪ i'm a fool ♪ ♪ to do your dirty work ♪ ♪ oh, yeah ♪ - and it was somehow more mundane

than we'd guessed it would be, and yet every bit as riveting as "the godfather." - you were like a brother to me. to all of us. - the debate raged at hbo about whether you could have a guy like this as your lead. and david chase was adamant that you have to-- this is who he is. and he was right. - can you assure me that tony soprano isn't going to become a sensitive, nurturing, mellowing man? - yes. - oh, good. [laughs] - [chuckles] - [giggling] [gasping] - oh, my god. - med, it's all right. i'll be home in a couple hours. don't worry. - i'm graduating tomorrow! - carmela was a wife and a mother, i think first and foremost. i think as long as she kept going to church, she felt like, "all right, i'm taking care of my soul." - where's the rest of the money? - it's everywhere. she goes home to her husband who's got blood on him. you know, there was no way to reconcile the two things.

- towards the end where their marriage is falling apart... - i used to [bleep] your husband. - you have made a fool of me for years with these whores. - her performance in that fight is stunningly good. - 'cause she's jealous! [bleep] [wails] - [grunts] - let go of me! [panting, sobbing] it mattered to people what this couple was going through, and i remember feeling a real sense of responsibility about that, and giving the weight to the scene that it deserves. - what? - [breath hitches] you know what i don't understand, tony? what does she have that i don't have? - suddenly, here's this tv show that everyone's talking about, but you have to pay to watch it. you know, that's how good "the sopranos" was: people were paying just to see that show. - "the sopranos" came along and completely reestablished what the bar was.

i honestly couldn't quite believe it, that television was communicating something that you might only see in the darkest moments-- and accurate moments-- in cinema. [distant radio chatter] [mystical drum music] ♪ ♪ - you look at the year that "american beauty" won the oscar-- which is also the year that "the sopranos" debuted-- and almost immediately after that, the two mediums diverged. - i know what i must do, but i'm afraid to do it. [epic music] - movies became much more focused on big tent-pole things that can bring in as much of an audience as you possibly can. meanwhile, tv, which had always been a big-tent medium, started going smaller and more interior and saying, "all right, we want to tell stories for grown-ups "that maybe don't get the biggest audience, but get a really passionate one." - ♪ i'll be home ♪ ♪ for christmas ♪ - i had an idea of doing a show about death.

- are you smoking? - nope. - yes, you are. i heard you. - i'm no--no, i'm not. - look, forget you'll give yourself cancer and die a slow and horrible death. you should not be stinking up that new hearse. - i met with carolyn, and she said, "i'd like to do a show about a family that runs a funeral home," and something in my head just went, "click." i thought, "what a brilliant idea." - i'm quitting right now. [spits] i promise. [clears throat] okay? i'll see you tonight. - ♪ i'll ♪ ♪ be home ♪ ♪ for christmas ♪ - alan ball comes up with a show with a perfect structure. each episode starts with the death of a character, and then that character's death is dealt with in a local family funeral home mortuary.

[distant sobbing and screaming] [screaming] - excuse me. - this was one of my first-- and maybe it was my first--binge show, which was long enough ago that it was all on--somebody had recorded it on vcr. - have you been watching mrs. romano? - yeah. i've been watching her all night. are you thinking what i'm thinking? both: casket climber. - [gasps] - i want to go with you! - mrs. romano, mrs. romano! - i want to go with you! - whoa, whoa, whoa, mrs. romano. - there's a whole new level of something going on on television. it was grittier than most shows you'd ever seen before, and yet something magical about it. - i think what our strategy at hbo was, in terms of audiences: not everybody has to watch a show... - [yelps] [percussive music] - but if we have different shows for different people...

- taxi! - there is something that makes you want to come back and sign up month after month. maybe you don't watch "sex and the city," but you watch "entourage." [crowd screaming] - "entourage" was originally based on mark wahlberg's life, and the appeal of the show is not so much about show business. it was these four guys who are, like, lifelong friends who could f**k with each other and say horrible things to each other but be tight and be good friends. - they want to throw $4 million at you. - you're kidding. - are you smiling? - yeah, yeah, i'm smiling. - can you hear me smiling? listen. [clicks teeth] you've got my balls tingling, man. they drive that way in tiananmen square, bitch? - ari gold suddenly became the breakout character, willing to be ruthless, yet also a family man with a line in the sand. and you don't really know where that line in the sand is, which makes him a morally much more interesting character. - i just read an article in the "times"--new york, man, not the s**t they got out here. - you read the "times," huh? - yeah. - you read "the new republic"? - i've heard of it. - well, i was reading that, and it's interesting, 'cause what it says is that you don't know

what the f**k you're talking about. [laughs]

[traditional woodwind music] - who could have possibly guessed a show about a bunch of backstabbing people with body odor on an island off borneo would become the tv hit of the summer. - "survivor" was really the first truly competitive reality format. go! i started to really understand what the show was going to be about the first 20 minutes into day one. - let's see what we got. all right, before we make any decisions, let's see what we got. - should we check the box and see if it's... - there might be a blowtorch in there. - oh, we need a bathroom. - are you guys all done talking? - huh? - richard hatch was sitting

in a tree, lecturing about what they should do as their group. - nobody's working toward a particular goal-- not the silly little stuff about, "oh, who's gonna sleep where? what are we gonna do?" but, "why are we here?" - and underneath him was this woman, sue hawk, a truck driver. - i'm a redneck, and i don't know corporate world law, and the corporate world ain't gonna work out here in the bush. - that was the show. - he walks around naked quite a bit. i think it probably bugs some of the guys. - whatever it takes to win here is the point. it's a game, and call it machiavellian, sure. - we had no idea that richard hatch would be the best thing to ever happen to "survivor." [traditional woodwind music] - all around the country, people were on the edge of their seats, waiting for the final vote to be announced. - the winner of the first "survivor" competition is... [tense music] [cheering] - "survivor" sort of legitimized the genre. [upbeat music]

simon fuller came into my office, and his vision was one long audition. - ♪ like a virgin ♪ ♪ touched for the very first time ♪ - i've never, ever heard anything like that in my life. - ♪ she bangs! she bangs! ♪ - thank you. - ♪ i'm wasted by the way-- ♪ - thank you. - [scatting] [laughter] - what was that? that is what you think we're looking for? - the network was saying, "we don't think we can put simon on the promos." - no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - "he'll scare little girls and we think that's our audience." - that's one of the worst auditions i've ever heard in my life. - i'm like, "well, that's the whole show," so, you know, without him, it's not gonna work," and it was a big fight internally. and of course we got him on, and of course that is what sparked the show. [cheers and applause] - well, here they are. the judges have made their choices. now, america, it's all up to you.

- "american idol" reunited the family audience in front of the tv. - ♪ r-e-s-p-e-c-t ♪ ♪ find out what it means to me ♪ - 9-year-olds to 90-year-olds could root for somebody on "american idol." it's not like it hadn't been done before, but the way that the producers of these shows could manipulate drama, the way they could find stories, that was the core of making those shows successful. - this is the weakest romance i've ever seen. this romance is pathetic. was there a romance? - well, i think we just decided we were meant to be very close friends. - very close friends. that's right. - good. i've had some very close friends too. - yeah, me too. [laughter] - it's cost me a lot of money. i'll tell you that. [cheers and applause] - "the apprentice" has its lasting effect even today. donald trump becomes a star... - you're fired. - all of it kind of reality-show fake. people who worked on it have come forward and said, "you know, we kind of made the whole thing up." and yet it sells. - and then there's just this explosion.

[rock music] - you interested in tattoos? weight loss? plastic surgery? - breast augmentation, tummy tuck, facial surgery. - [laughing] i don't look like me! oh, my... - hoarders? substance abuse? flipping your house? that's a big one. like, there's literally a reality show for everyone. - the networks would be out of business without reality tv. if you have to fill 40 hours of television with scripted shows, it costs you an arm and a leg. you'll be out of business, because those scripted shows most likely will do no better and probably worse than the reality show did. [cheers and applause] - bravo starts doing things aimed at gay viewers and women, and so, you know, you have, like, "queer eye for the straight guy." - bad taste kills. - and "project runway." - this is a search for the next big fashion designer. - "project runway" was not an instantaneous hit. we sort of had this crisis where, like,

"is anyone gonna want them sit around watching people sew?" - i am feeling the race against time now, yes. - bravo played, like, three or four episodes over the christmas holidays, and all of a sudden, it just caught on like wildfire. - make it work. - people have come into "runway" and "top chef," and they know that this can change their lives. - one of you is about to win the title of top chef. - rock and roll! - mtv had "the osbournes," and it was fun, because, you know, the whole idea of, you know, the guy who bit the heads off of bats, you know, being domestic, and his wife and his teenage kids... - please don't go out and get drunk or get stoned tonight. - that sort of sparks this movement of, "we can put celebrities on tv and just let them do what they do." - i've always heard that people hang out at walmart. - why? - i don't know. - what is walmart? [crickets chirp] is it, like, they sell wall stuff? - no. what is it? - [laughs] - it's like a... - of course, that reaches its peak--or nadir,

depending on your opinion-- with the kardashians. - i hate you all. [rock music] welcome to my family. - there's something about watching someone who's maybe slightly like yourself but more obnoxious... - you're so evil. - there's a lot of baggage that comes with us, but it's like louis vuitton baggage. you always want it. - or they're, you know, more of a disaster. - prostitution whore. you were [bleep] engaged 19 times? you [bleep] stupid bitch! [bleep] [shouting indistinctly] [shrieking] you [bleep] bitch! - teresa, stop. - whore! - stop. - there's something about watching that and going, "yeah, god, at least i'm not that." [all shouting] - i look over, and i see, like, hair being pulled and all this [bleep]. i'm like, oh, my god, like, how do i get in? - i used to get the critics asking me about, "well, why are people watching that reality show?" i'm like, "why are they watching the show? 'cause they're entertained." you are never going to meet someone that's gonna say to you,

"you know, i was watching 'the bachelor' last night. i loved it, but i wish i was watching a great drama.'" - karen... - i thought you'd never ask. - you don't need to call it a guilty pleasure. just call it a pleasure. it's something you love watching. it could be a reality show, it could be a drama, it could be a sitcom, it could be a documentary. whatever it is, you know, i think great tv comes in many forms.

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- you want to know what the best thing about childhood is? at some point, it stops. - in the year 2000, we get "malcolm in the middle," and this is a pivotal show for a lot of reasons. - dude... - not least of which because it gives us bryan cranston, but because this is a single-camera comedy. - around here, being smart is exactly like being radioactive. - single-camera comedies were funny, and the fact that you could shoot them like movies, and they could be terrific every week... - yep, class president felt really good. but later that night, i had a dream. - you know, critics loved that because it was something new. it was something that they weren't expecting. [tense music] - [screams] - [shrieks] - oh, you should see the traffic. the only thing moving is the carpool lane. - hey, daddy. you want a date with mama? - get in the car.

- "curb" came because larry wanted to do a special. it was his, you know, just, [as larry davis] "uh, follow my life," you know? but he would only make it with the stipulation that if he didn't like it, he could buy it back. lucky for us, he liked it. - you trying to act like you ain't with me? - no, i'm not trying to act like i'm not with you. what are you saying? - i will pull a [bleep] out in this thing. i will [bleep]... - don't you dare do that. - you know, the actors wouldn't get an outline for the show. they wouldn't even read what the scene was about. - judy! see it? - yeah. - judy! - judy! judy! oh, my god. - by the way, that shelf coming down was not planned. that shelf really did come down, and larry and jeff just acted their way through it. - what do i do? - stick it in your jacket. - jeffrey! - it's too big. where do i put it? - do something. she's coming up. - i think "curb" in many ways is the ultimate descendant of "seinfeld." it's in a much more real, truthful place where morality is a gray area... - where's the [bleep] head? - and everybody's redefining it all the time.

- the kid is home hysterical because her doll, judy, has been decapitated, 'cause you two sickos took the head for god knows what reason--some voodoo [bleep] you're doing. - larry and i would play a game of "worst case scenario." - i was talking to a friend of mine, and he's a survivor, and he would love to meet you. would it be possible? i mean, for me to bring them to dinner, and... - of course. - you would take the basic premise from something that actually happened and then just exploit it... - where's this survivor? - well, he's the survivor. from the-- from the television show. - the guy from the "survivor" tv show and the holocaust survivor get into an argument about who had it worse. - we spent 42 days trying to survive. we had very little rations, no snacks. - snacks? what are you talking, snacks? we didn't eat,

sometimes for a week, for a month. - don't. - we ate nothing. i went from-- - i mean, i couldn't even work out when i was over there. they certainly didn't have a gym. - a what? - i mean, i wore my sneakers out, and then the next thing you know, i've got a pair of flip-flops. - flip-flops! - we'd slip on the ground. - that was, to me, larry david at his best, because he managed to take a subject that no one would really find funny and make it hilarious and palatable. - i'm a survivor! - i'm a survivor. - i'm a survivor! - i'm a survivor! - i'm a sur-- - is there any taboo that you wouldn't break? - no, not if there was a funny idea. - it's all about funny? - yeah. - so, this is the magic trick, huh? - illusion, michael. - mm. - a trick is something a whore does for money. - "arrested development" was absolutely firing on all cylinders from the first episode to the last. - don't you judge me. you're the selfish one. you're the one who charged his own brother for a bluth frozen banana. i mean it's one banana, michael. what could it cost? $10? - you've never actually set foot

in a supermarket, have you? - if you got it, it was the funniest thing you ever saw, 'cause it assumed its audience was as smart as its writers. - what have you got there? "don't be afraid to make a..." - well, i'm not gonna beat myself up over that. - it was so clever, and more meta than just about any show that's ever been on television. - your average american male is in a perpetual state of adolescence--you know, arrested development... - hey, that's the name of the show. - it was really smart in the eye that you can kind of break all these rules, and also have a lot of characters on a comedy who were extremely unlikable. [mariachi music] ♪ ♪ - [screams] - there are a lot more important things than jokes in a comedy. jokes aren't the most important thing in a comedy. - what's the most important thing? - character. [rolls tongue] it's all down to it. just, like, control of the body. and it's all that now, isn't it? - busy? - yeah, just keeping up the morale. - can we have a chat? - yeah.

ooh! - i'd watched the british show "the office." it's one of the greatest cringe shows of all time. - no, i don't have a great many ethnic employees. that's true. but it's not company policy. i haven't got a sign on the door that says "white people only." you know, i don't care if you're black, brown, yellow, you know--orientals make very good workers. - wassap? - don't do that. - when the decision was made to make an american version... - wassap? - wassap? - wassap? - there was a lot of head-shaking of, like, "oh, god, american tv. they're gonna ruin it." - are they breathing? - no, rose, they are not breathing, and they have no arms or legs. - no, that's not part of it. - where are they? - it used the same mockumentary format that the british show had... - [grunts] - and it went on to be this hugely influential hit.

- [screams] - what are you doing? - we search for the organs. where's the heart? the precious heart. - that show works. everybody you go to in that cast is hilarious. - [slurping creepily] - oh, my god! - why would you-- - oh, my god. - dwight! - [as hannibal lecter] clarice... - it was a mockumentary format that was different, and all of a sudden, it became something that you just realized the audience was very comfortable and very conversant. - hey, park lady. - yeah? - you suck. - hear that? he called me "park lady." - "the office," "parks and rec," "modern family"-- the conceit is they're making a documentary. - [grunts] i'm okay. i'm good. i'm good. - the idea of these shows is, you know, they sit down on the couch or they catch them in a separate part of the office, and everybody does a confessional like reality television. - i've gained a few extra pounds while we were expecting the baby, which has been very difficult, but apparently your body does a nesting, very maternal,

primal thing where it retains nutrients-- some sort of molecular physiology thing. but that's science. you can't--you can't fight it. - we didn't need to explain that there's a documentary, 'cause, like, yeah, it's a documentary. we don't need to know who he's talking to. i got it, and it's funny. - this year's emmy nominations have been announced. the comedy series "30 rock" was the top nominee. - "30 rock." - "30 rock" is having the last laugh again. last year's best comedy winner pulled in 17 nominations, the most in that category. - why are you wearing a tux? - it's after 6:00. what am i, a farmer? - tina fey, i always felt, was the best joke writer in america. - would you describe yourself as cat-competent? - oh, yes. i love cats. i used to have two cats, but then i moved to this place with hardwood floors, so we had to put them down. - so here comes "30 rock." it's probably the densest show ever, joke-wise. [musical sting] - [gasps] no. no high-def.

- "30 rock" was a critical success from minute one. it had a very passionate, very desirable audience watching it, from even an advertiser's standpoint, but it was not a highly rated show. - television on! pornography! - but critical success was a marker for, "we're doing something right there." - all of my summer replacement shows were big hits-- "america's next top pirate," "are you stronger than a dog?" "milf island." - "milf island"? - 25 super hot moms, 50 eighth-grade boys, no rules. - oh, yeah, didn't one of those women turn out to be a prostitute? - that doesn't mean she's not a wonderful, caring milf.

craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office... [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg's moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don's paying so much for at&t, he's been waiting to update his equipment! there's a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don't have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities.

- two okay! - one okay! [explosion] - i had a particular connection to the "band of brothers" miniseries. - let's go! - my father served in the second world war and was in many of the places where airborne ended up. - incoming! [explosion] - and what he felt was real about it was that the emotions were utterly true. [gunshot] - it was a bunch of ordinary guys who, by way of training and volunteerism and sacrifice, both saved the world and we're forever changed by what they did.

- [crying] - a lot of those veterans were still alive, so we got to meet them. we got to talk to them. - i've seen... my friends, my men being killed. and it doesn't take too many days of that, and you change dramatically. - the show premiered september 9th, 2001. two days later, everything changes. people were concerned. "should we stop airing it because it's a war story and now the country is at war again?" - it turned out to be something that was necessary, because now almost every american, i think, felt as though they had enlisted in something that they had not enlisted in before. after 9/11, we were all part of something. - we deserve long and happy lives in peace. - do i know that face? - historical dramas of the founding of the nation

have been overly rosy. - when i go to the cupboard, and i find no coffee, no sugar, no pins, no meat, am i not living politics? - one of the things that was amazing to me about "john adams" was it was done as realism. - people are hurt when they fight for what is rightfully theirs! - you approve a brutal and illegal act to enforce a political principle, sam! - just the grittiness of founding a nation. - and liberty will reign in america! - and trying to figure out what a president is. - god bless george washington, president of the united states. [cheers and applause] - it's a gift to be given 12 hours on hbo. god help you if you don't have something to say. - let's understand each other. i'm not western district. i'm not a narco. i don't dirty people, 'cause i don't give a s**t about a possession charge.

i'm a murder police. i'm here about the bodies. - david simon was a newspaper reporter in baltimore. he spent a year embedded with the baltimore homicide unit to write a book. he and ed burns, who was a police officer, got together and said, "well, what if we tell "the whole story of the death of the american city, "the futility of the war on drugs, through the eyes of cops"... - bang! - [laughing] - "of drug dealers"... - y'all got the best territory and no kind of product. i got the best product, but could stand a little more territory. - "of teachers, of politicians-- just make the entire city into the character itself?" - you follow drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. but you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the [bleep] it's gonna take you. - "the wire" broke down systemic racism and the cycle of poverty like no other television show had. - come on. get up. it's a school day. y'all are gonna be late.

- it wasn't just about, hey, look at these black kids chilling drugs on the street. you were in the apartment with them where they had no parents, where they were taking care of their siblings, where they were trying to scrounge for food. - where's your book bag? - teacher didn't give no homework. - so you start to get a much more realistic three-dimensional picture of what poverty looks like in a city. [sirens blaring] - one of the things about "the wire" that was so interesting is it didn't rely on this traditional representation of gangsters. it didn't rely on this traditional representation of cops. it was like reading a great novel or a great series of novels. - something ain't right, yo. - watch out, man. here come that fool. - [whistling] - he's packing. - i think "the wire" showed the architecture of a full city in the way it layered its characters, particularly omar. omar was, by all other facets of his life,

pretty awful. - yeah. the cheese stands alone. - but he had this code that he lived by that made him very touchable and very human. - hey, yo, mike. hook a sister up, yo. [baby crying] - he was openly gay, but people were also very afraid of him, and his sexuality was not necessarily weaponized against him. and for me, i didn't see black gangsters portrayed that way a lot. - no matter what we call heroin, it's gonna get sold. the [bleep] is strong, we're gonna sell it. the [bleep] is weak, we gonna sell twice as much. you know why? 'cause a fiend, he gonna chase that [bleep] no matter what. - it's the greatest tv show of all time. i know people always argue about that. it's the greatest tv show to have black people on it ever. - david, what's the highest compliment someone could pay you about this show? - "you didn't lie." that would be it. "you didn't cheat." - good night, stars. - good night, stars.

[sirens blaring] - good night, popos. - good night, popos. - [chuckles] - at the time, hbo was in about 33 million homes. well, fx was going to 110 million homes, so that's a lot of people who i think would like programming like this who do not have hbo. [exciting music] and then i just said, "well, there's got to be a different version of tony soprano," and that ultimately, we found in the script, that was vic mackey, who is a cop. - the good cop and the bad cop left for the day. i'm a different kind of the cop. - the pilot of "the shield" is fascinating, because you think that the show is being set up as a cat-and-mouse game. vic mackey--he's secretly in bed with all the gangs and all the drug dealers and making lots of money, and then you're introduced to terry crowley, this undercover cop who has been sent to bring him down, and you think, "oh, that's the show. i've seen this show before. i seen that movie before." - we're talking about making a case that puts mack behind bars for a long time.

- then you get to the end of the pilot, and vic shoots terry in the face. [rock music] ♪ ♪ - there was some thought that hbo shows did well because they had no commercials. so when a basic cable show like "the shield" that did have commercials found an audience, all of a sudden, it just opened the door, and other original programming sprung up, like "nip/tuck." - when you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead. - and "rescue me." [alarm ringing] - you son of a bitch! - and it was a whole new playing field. - tommy! [people shouting] [alarm ringing]

- the current crop of 18- to 25-year-olds is the most politically apathetic generation in american history. - we had a lot of difficulty getting "the west wing" on the air, and part of that was because a not unreasonable belief on the part of nbc that people didn't want to deal with politics. - running for president of the united states without putting social security front and center is like running for present of the walt disney corporation

by saying you're gonna fix the rides at epcot. - i think what made it so different than any other show i'd worked on was the richness of character and words and thoughts and images that aaron sorkin wrote. - i would love for people to think that i'm as quick and clever as the characters that i write, but you'd be disappointed if you met me. - josh. - yeah - six pages on english as the national language. - meetings don't just take place sitting down and talking to people. - and the-- - i didn't ask for a damn social studies paper. i wanted... - don't snap at me, josh. - donna... - look at the memo. i gave you what you asked for. don't snap at me. - so we knew that was the essence of the show--this movement. - what's wrong with everyone today? - the challenge of doing that is, number one, lighting... - what was the question? - if you look at that set on "the west wing," there is a lot of glass. glass is reflective, so there were a lot of technical challenges that existed, but the biggest challenge by far was the performance challenge.

- 802, five votes jumped the fence. - because they could go beginning, middle, and end of the scene sometimes in one take, and it was liberating, and also intimidating. - what the hell happened? - we don't know. - give me names. - we're finding out. - i love "the west wing" because it's a complete fantasy of a political world that is so healthily bipartisan and it shows people intensely and emotionally grappling with the hard questions. - 40% of americans have a gun in their home. - only 16% believe gun ownership is an absolute right. only 9% believe it's an absolute wrong. there's a middle. we can win them. - it presented both sides as real human beings that cared. - it's not easy being my vice president, is it? - [sighs] no, sir. - this was a valentine's towards public service that i think people were hungry for, and so this was a group of people just trying to make the world better. - alexander hamilton didn't think we should have political parties.

neither did john adams. they thought political parties led to divisiveness. - day number 52 of the socialism that you've been waiting for... - the manchurian candidate couldn't destroy us faster than barack obama. - critics now claim the administration is actually pressuring certain disabled veterans to, quote, "hurry up and die." - what you saw in the media universe in the 2000s was the splintering of the audience, and in news, it splintered largely along political lines. - you're watching fox news, real journalism, fair and balanced. - roger ailes had the brilliant idea of creating a network for conservatives, thus fox news. - controversy over john kerry and his vietnam war medals has just gotten worse. - msnbc kind of stumbled into the idea of a liberal counterpart. - people who watch fox news thinking that there is news in it are tinfoil hatters, conspiracy theorists, paranoids, racists, loons, and pinheads. - there was no longer a shared factual basis for our political views.

we didn't all go home and watch walter cronkite. - "crossfire." on the left, james carville and paul begala. on the right, robert novak and tucker carlson. in the crossfire... - i remember when jon stewart went on "crossfire." it was 2004. john kerry was the democratic presidential nominee facing george w. bush, and i thought, you know, watching it, i said, "well, this could be a funny show." - can i say something very quickly? why do we have to fight? - [laughs] - the two of you. can't we just-- say something nice about john kerry right now. - i like john--i care about john kerry. - and something about president bush. - he'll be unemployed soon. - [laughs] - i think anyone who enjoyed paying attention to the news and watched "the daily show" will forever remember jon stewart going on "crossfire" and reading those guys the riot act. - you're doing theater when you should be doing debate, which would be great. - you do debate-- - it's not honest. what you do is not honest.

what you do is partisan hackery, and i'll tell you why i know it... - you have john kerry on your show, and you sniff his throne, and you're accusing us of partisan hackery? - absolutely, you're-- - you have got to be kidding! - you're on cnn. the show the leads in to me is puppets making crank phone calls. - [laughs] - what is wrong with you? - comedians and satire, when done right, will take on hypocrisy no matter where it comes from. - i think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. i think they love her very much, and you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter. - yes, we admire your love for your gay daughter! - if they've stepped in it, a trusted comic will bring that to the forefront, and i think that that's what people like about "the daily show." - there's an upcoming election, evidently.

i didn't know that. [laughter] - you're our chief political correspondent, stephen. i mean, every two years, we elect a brand new house of representatives, a third of the senate. it's called the midterm elections. - i only vote when the big kahunas are up, you know? el presidente. i can't be running around every two years voting. i got a life. - i could not have lived without "the daily show," and colbert then becomes the companion show... - c for colbert. - that is also so compelling to watch--this hilarious, pseudo-conservative dumb guy... - and who are the heroes? the people who watch this show--average, hardworking americans. you're not the elites. you're not the country club crowd. i know for a fact that my country club would never let you in. - one of the things about being on "the colbert report," and stephen would say it himself, was he was playing a character.

- the book is "the nine: inside the secret, spooky world of the supreme court." - stephen had to respond in real time to the guests as his character, not as himself, which was an incredible feat of acting as well as a kind of quasi-journalism. that's a big part of the book, is, you know, how much do the justices' political views play a role in how they decide cases? - how much--i mean, why would political views go into it? these guys are supposed to be--except the activist judges, the four liberal activist judges. i can understand why their liberal bent would affect them, because they're activist judges. - right. - but the conservative judges are not activists. they're inactivists. - they... [stammers] yeah, i guess you're exactly right. yeah. - right? - the moment i remember is the moment that barack obama was named president of the united states. - cnn projects that barack obama is the next president

of the united states of america. it is now official. he has passed the 270 electoral votes. [cheers and applause] - when you watch the tape, you can see that colbert begins to cry. and that character can't cry, because that's not what the character does, and jon stewart, he loves colbert so much as a human being, he covers for colbert. - it is now 297 for barack obama, 139 for john mccain.

>> series starts tomorrow would nine on cnn very interesting statistic. >> people, their favorite shows. >> we had csi be at er, the most faithful fans still only watches that show two out of four weeks at the time, there was just a general all fear and anxiety and they have the data to back it up. that shows that became increasingly serialized with lose viewership over time. >> let's because if the audience misses an episode than they would be inclined to stop watching it because they would feel like i missed one and now i don't know what's happening there had been amazing shows that had been serialized. >> they never had syndication value because you couldn't revisit them. but there's almost no better hook. it's like a book you can't turn down. i go kevin, who's going to watch a little bit more 24

was set to debut in november of 2001 the pilot climax is with an assassin blowing up a passenger jet in mid air fox orders this, fox schedules it 911 happens suddenly, the show which seemed like his goofy thing about you keep her sutherland chasing after middle eastern extremist terrorists becomes the most timely show on television, because that is all that anyone on america can talk about after september 11th the name for the series comes from the idea that it's 24 episodes in a season. >> each episode is one hour in a day. and jack bauer just has the worst days we are running out of time please don't make me do this for you know, how hard this is for you. >> but if you care about me at all, you will pull the trigger

the commercial breaks in that show where almost welcome so that you could catch your breath 24 was really the first bin show. >> have you think about it? there were a lot of people in the lady years of 24 that would only buy the dvds, you think they'll come after you and a lot of the subtleties and complexities that the storytellers had been doing. you'd say, my god, this is blowing my mind. i can see it now because i just watched three in a row galactico was a show maiden late 1970s seven days not a very good show, but a show with a really good idea, which is civilization has been destroyed. >> humanities on the ron. what happens next? years later, or syfy channel looked at it and said, well, what if we take it seriously that a president we have to eliminate deal with the carrier immediately 1,300 people on that star wars feels

like fantasy and fable in the best possible sense, this felt like war do it the photography was shot very much like bluer to combat camera man work okay. fire on my mark know frank and wally it was as if someone was floating in space with an old war to film all in an oh, here comes silent. i want to get the shot really was really they'd buy it its classic sci-fi, in that it's about using the robots and the spaceships and the clones to comment on the world we live in right now. >> i can't when this body is destroyed, my memory, my consciousness will be transmitted to a new one of the cy leinz look and act and feel just like humans. and by time you get to the middle of battle star galactica, you don't really know who you're rooting for anymore. what other secrets

are rattling around inside that mechanical it was like sort of west wing and space. >> then i'm president without it would to meet it it was just a very rich world. >> it felt lived in, felt real and the stakes could not have been higher i think lost is the first huge cinematic tv show i saw. i remember gathering at a friend's house to watch and it was long enough ago on the internet was still young enough and social media was not what was, what friendster jj abrams, ambition for the loss pilot was grandiose he always talked about it as making a movie every week. i think when we say the word cinematic, what we really mean is opening it up a

little bit more, but also the ambition of an action set piece jj was very aggressive he's like if you want me to do this pilot, you're going to need to give me the resource in order to do it. and i want to shoot it as a movie. and then we've got to keep that bar up you start off, you think? >> yeah. all right. well, this is just a survival drama. here's these people. there's plane, has crashed. how are they going to get by how they're going to find food, et cetera we aren't and on top of that, there's this whole mystery where are we? >> why can't we get a rescue signal? why is there a polar bear? >> what is going on here the show average is more than 15.5 million viewers each week and spawned countless web locations were millions of avid fans can obsess a fan base is saying, when are you going to answer these mysteries? personally, i started feeling hamstrung story wise, almost instantly because

we had to do 25 hours of lost in the first season. so when we started really indicating to abc we're going to run out a flashback stories call it jack you, call it an abc was adamant in saying no, like the show is a hit show. >> people loved the flashbacks, don't worry, you guys are great at it. just keep it up. >> okay. for at the beginning of the third season of the show, we had our character is locked in cages and i think looking back about an now, dimon and i are like, well, i think that's metaphorically how we felt. >> we felt we were locked in cages around halfway through the third season, abc says okay, we will let you end the show and we're like, yes, thank god. and he said after ten seasons that's where it has why i was in los the same it really was a huge boost for the network. >> they had to show is that everybody was talking about, i

spent the day because i spent every other day. widely polishing the routine of my life. i'm telling glean with perfection i have a lot to say about women who go into the iconic roles of wife and mother. and our unfulfilled i think the good news at brought is women who are not perfect, who are not young are viable and fan base was amazing and, you know, there were t-shirts i remember going into a store and there was in linux, you saying, i'm a bad mother may media to get back in your car, please. >> i am gabby i am susan i am brie. >> are you at a bar we stood on the shoulders of those who came before, you know, strong women, characters and television. >> but in the wake of desperate

housewives, a lot more shows with older women came on the air what you're doing knock myself out naked and then i fell so how are you doing the assignments are going off the tornado here you cannot out swinging you cannot outrun it really is a terrifying experience. >> it is the stuff of nightmares you could hear it and feel it. >> nick eyes i wrote were buried i'm thinking i'm going to die and i thought that was it with liev schreiber premiers tomorrow at nine on cnn. i brought in a juror max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy and just two weeks here, i'll take that ensure max protein,

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town of billing, texas is on fire. i loved friday night lights i grew up in colorado. it said in texas, but i knew every single person who was on that show and they weren't on the air any place else, you man clear eyes, full let's get the pilot of friday night lights is one of the best pilots. are there any television show ever do you ever do so almost instantly to the fact that jason street is the greatest quarterback that deal in high school has ever had street. >> i've been scottie quarterbacks for notre dame for 27 years your son, maybe the best i hear about 35 or 40 minutes into the episode while trying to make a tackle apply a full. jason street is it any is paralyzed it is devastating because you get just far enough into the episode to think that maybe the bad thing will not

happen to this person but then the show wouldn't be the show i'm going to stay in dillon i'm going to be a father of this baby and this family. >> i'm going to coach high school football and you and are going to stay together and that's the way it is yes no. what do you mean? no. you got to go to austin. this is this is your dream. >> us what i'm telling you that's what i'm telling what we wanted it to feel like. was the audience was just being invited in to a very small town, very intimate setting that's why i don't want to be responsible nor do i want to have this baby be responsible for you not live in out your dream. >> and that's what you are my dream. >> walk with you all these years to get to this place. you and i together this is about just a couple trying to

actually be in a marriage and make it work instead of just like what we always see on television. >> and then i felt a very strong deep desire to not just have her be the sidelines supporting wife. >> it looks to me like on your little sojourn, tim, you missed yourself out to biology exams and what looks like a pretty important term paper. in your english class. so let's start there. >> i don't know what a sojourn as a soldier is, what's going to keep you back a year if you don't get it together, that's right. change your attitude. that's what a sojourners rest of it, you can look up lee was really interesting show because it was about high school. >> and they take pop songs that are already out there and make them part of the story of dancing with my and it was about these misfits out of high

school is not and they're in the glee club there's a lot of themes about not fitting in but be homophobia hi, i'm three-way flagging by the one else as gay game was so specific so my childhood and like he'll ever thought that yeah. well, bunch of misfit show choir losers would come are global thing. i never did i think glee and ryan murphy really got the general public understanding that oh, there is a person behind this and there is a person's sensibility that is driving the show. now be like a sister this is the point at which the show runners are almost as famous or more famous than some of the people on their shows, because we care so much about the creative process still is that the drama and the story that usually comes first

and the medicine later. theme of every episode and the drama of every episode comes first and then we try to find medicine that relates to or a flex that theme mr. mrs. glass, i understand how difficult this is. >> no disrespect, but like hell, you do you're going to have to make a decision as to how you want to proceed. >> you mean my baby's life for my own yes. grey's anatomy, it revealed what a good storyteller, shonda rhymes. it's i love you in a really, really big pretend to like your taste in music let you eat the last piece of cheesecake hold a radio over my head outside your window unfortunate way that makes me hate to love you so pick me. people like chandra rhymes. these are the people who are just the lifeblood of broadcast networks. and then shawn does case. it's fantastic because finally, a woman, finally a person of

color, is doing this anything that opens doors. >> four more women and more african-americans and more diverse casting and more diverse crew is a good thing. >> chandra stood up and let yes, i'm going to be a show runner and be a juggernaut, ten bucks as he messes up, he says he cries, i'll put 20 on a total meltdown, 50 says he pulls the whole thing off that's one of us down there. >> the first one of us. >> where's your loyalty above and beyond the cultural aspect, which is important in grade we need to remember that she created a bunch of shows that are terrific. fonda what you can do this the stanley cup class you want to add energy to give me same thrill. >> let's live by vicariously through anc rental of pumping

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in front of a live studio audience. i guess this is it was getting kind of tired and getting kind of stale. you now there is no form of television that makes as much money for the network's as multi-camera tv shows we write a four cameras show. we write it directed and perform it, and rehearsed it like a play in front of them. the studio audience when someone gets a laugh on that stage, they actually hold, as you do not in real life, as you do not in single camera, you are holding for that laugh abstract, an abstract enough? an amazing job looks like something, but what does it look you can even touch

it i'm fine. this is bogan me, worry he started studying what phil rosenthal was doing with raymond and he was embracing the very best of what the genre could do which was interesting characters he provided me with a very, very loud reminder that i didn't need to fix anything. >> that you need to knock any boundaries or walls over. i just need to do embrace. what was there i had been in so many shows that had failed spectacularly, that i became known as the show killer and that's not a great thing to be known as showbiz on the slide,

i had them come in and read it for me and he was brilliant. >> how much is a hooker on what are you gonna do with a hooker? >> well, i'd like to pay her to have sex with how much you're looking to spend, well, as you know, i am a bit of a bargain hunter brought unfortunate stock hookers at the $0.99 number. >> okay. well what could i get in the $200 range? >> crabs and carjacked i have an enormous sense of pride to have done a multi-camera sitcom that people really took to their hearts for 12 years. okay, let's start in first position jake, do you know for supposition is that like missionary position that was the longest that sigcomm had been on broadcast television in the history of broadcast television at the time, i think big bang is gonna beat it, but still, that's amazing.

>> two people talking is the essence of four cameras sitcom lighting is not really an issue. >> there's no music that's going to help material checkmate. there's no special effects. >> again, hopefully good words with good actors be humbling to suck on so many different levels big bang have this weird hurdle. it seemed of not only are you fighting the natural fight that every show does about getting an audience trying to stay on the air and keep your job. yada, yada the fastest man this is why i wanted to have a costume meeting. but then there was also the weird wave of energy coming like you're in a genre that's passed, say that we're

done with this, we don't want to see this anymore. >> and the me goes to jim parsing obviously we didn't go whole way. and i believe very strongly that the multi-camera, the way they are shot in front of the studio audience. you hear the other people laughing i think it ignites something that's innate and all of us that's very primal almost which is that desire to gather as a group. and hear a story hey lauren, look new york it's saturday so every generation has their favorite saturday night live, right? and it's usually the one that was on when they were in high school so the people that were in high school during the 2000s won the jackpot because over the course of that decade, you see some of the most extraordinary people come through that show we

should mention that although the laughters above appear calm below the surface, there is a frenzy of activity one of the hallmarks of snl is you need somebody to play the president. and wills w was stellar, went this way. will pharaohs, george bush was sort of a level able dummy how about a lifesaver here? >> yeah, that'd be nine again, i there you go. >> can i get those antlers too? >> yeah i like these and of course, more cow bell was also a welfare or high point calvin was fantastic, not only because it's a great concept, but because we'll really gets to be will the last time i checked, we don't have a whole lot of songs that feature the cow bell i got to have more cowbell be doing myself with the service in every member this bad

invited to perform the hell out of this i said now in the 2000s is also a great time for women. it's my because there is a strong group of women that play off each other really well. what do you pot india, he cherokee what do you sue you so so when you you chip i believe that diplomacy he should be the cornerstone of any foreign policy. and i can see russia from my house singh cars you are seeing creativity and wacky left field things that you wouldn't have seen before and after sandy sanford and the law holy ireland guys, akiva and

your mom really helped make the transition for snl into the digital era. and that's when things started to go viral for snl on the boat or who could forget in the box, i mean, come on when the competition is a nuclear competitions, spying is extraordinarily important the russians were trying to spy on us we were spying on them it's very difficult to determine whom you can trust. i was study frank everything got that it control this is a war, but secret was the secrets and

spies, a nuclear game premiers tomorrow at ten on cnn first, we did be impossible you ate so many of the impossible that we completely ran out. and now there the foot law cookies back at subway brand new they see in

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preferred better science, better results i'm alex mark part in washington and this is cnn welcome david mulch said, i have a great idea about ancient rome. cops in ancient rome at the time of nero and we're like, okay, just tot it out because we're already doing this show about rome will be striking go does that will be crucified david basically took the underlying theme of his rome xiao and put it in deadwood no law at all. >> and dead, what is that true? >> the time of nero, there was a lot of order and no law and deadwood was a similar environment. maybe you don't value keeping your guts inside

your belly enough those were the days behind us. >> know. >> those are the days my left ian mix shane's character, housework and just steals the show, just lock stock and barrel boy from everybody else you kind of want to go in that celina his and have a drink and try to engage them in conversation. >> but then you think to yourself that'd be a good idea. >> if i say something wrong, am i going to get my guts cut out with a buoy knife he's a fascinating character in that he scares you and he attracts you at the same time. >> let's kind of a rare thing can we see your fines step, daddy hated fan? >> we don't. >> i think that true blood wasn't enjoyable. beach read. so with blood all over it you can. >> say well, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. >> it wasn't taking itself seriously except it was such a big allegory for what was going

on with the gay community, with aids, with political backlash, you use your tax exempt religious institution as an anti vampire terrorist enclave because there's monsters all over but the scariest, most deadly characters in the whole show, where are we going to have and did the empire and our trailer or the human when beings show time, looked at tony soprano and they said, you want an anti-hero. >> how about a mass murderer who, who's the hero of our show dexter was based on a series of novels about a blood spatter expert who worked for them mapd, who is secretly a serial killer. soon built into shoe neatly wrapped he 50s my own small corner of the world

it'd be neater happier place. >> he was raised by police man to channel. he is sociopath icc impulses to only kill other killers so he is a bad guy, but also a good guy. >> i kill reprehensible people. i mean the idea of the show is that you're invited to identify with and maybe even root for a serial killer that's right. he kills horrible people if i were just it's killing people, willy nilly, i think ball bets would be on where's the fun in that? yeah, in the 2000s, the anti-hero really rosa prominence that's enough to, get the, same point that there it's nice work. you paid seed for the whole and i think they were popular because they were surprising he were free woman

object to deal de a drop the charges thank you a show for me that was incredible. crumbley, memorable was damages now where's the tape it really was about following the twisted relationship of patty and ellen what are you looking at it for fraud, conspiracy obstruction of justice mr. night tells us you might have reasons of your own for when take down misuse yes i did i was just so taken with the fact that there was this incredibly dark, unapologetically morally compromised lead character who was a woman i taught paid to have your killed it was sort of the beginning of a real emergence of rich women on television all right sure, i

take my last one so how does this kept free you nuts? i have heard nurse jackie referred to as an anti-hero. >> she was at the mercy of her addiction that always got her fullest attention. >> what are you looking at? >> but beyond that, i think she really cared that there wasn't money in the budget for extra blankets for someone who came in off the street and she would go and steal it from another department or whatever she in her she really wanted to be a good nurse and she wanted to be married, and she wanted these kids and she wanted to be a good wife and mother. >> why do you always have to work? >> and there was no way she could do all of them edey falco

for me can do no wrong. he or she is as the female anti-hero that has her own show and she's the one who's morals or questionable keys because, she's having an affair can talk love. yeah she's stealing drugs and ishi and unfit mother and all those things. >> and yet you feel for her. so i loved that women now get to be get to be the anti-hero and not just either the villain of the good girl and i think that is something that's a decade gave us, which is a move towards television really reflecting what america looks like from here we'll tell you this.

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of amc day because they were looking to do scripted programming for the first time a managers that oh, i have this great script set in the advertising world in new york. >> it's been around for eight years and nobody's bought it. everybody's past advertising is based on one thing happiness don draper is a master of the universe ad executive in early 1960s, manhattan. >> but he is actually secretly a man named dick whitman. he has stolen the identity of the real don draper due to an incident during the korean war. who's living another man's life but he's battling his own demons at the same time. and we're seeing him rise and fall over the course of the 1960s it a lot of ways the most interesting ark of the show is peggy olsen's career she goes from his little church mouse secretary to a really tough and bold and confident career woman. >> i liked the way she's handing out the pups.

>> who knows what she can do when is going to try to get it even during a really sexist period for the industry when it was so hard for a woman to get anything. >> thank you. can you give me some coffee? >> no the female characters in madman are great because they each represent different aspects of what women were going through at that time. you glide around that office like some magnificent ship i had this incredible experience of reading the feminine mystique and sex in a single row in the same week. and i said, oh, this is my xiao the heroes of mad men were the women. >> and the men were all obstructions of one kind or another. >> i'm here all day alone with him out, numbered about karla doesn't count. >> it's not a hard job to raise our children it was incorporating the music of the times, the images of the times, the history of the times. >> and the attitudes of the time tell me right to find out

what color panties you wearing yeah can i walk you home? >> mad men pad absolutely no nostalgia for the period it showed that people were jerks and adulterers. and kani vrs. >> even back in the glory days of the 1960s, play you doing something how they communicated the kennedy assassination was actually exactly as it came to pass. they draw their pistols by the damage was done backseat everything stopped, nothing seemed important ever again. >> and it just so happened to be the weekend that rodgers daughter was getting married big wedding with the wave i

would put mad men and sopranos in a position of the most important shows, the history of television i was about to turn 40-years-old. and this is about 2000 for two years after the end of the x-files than i was kind of see it wasn't sure what to do next. i was having trouble getting frankly, i was having trouble getting employed boyd my body tops now's had been on the x-files two and he said, i think we should put a meth lab in the back of an rv and see american make some bell on the side he's got a warped sense of humor. >> but all right when i heard that that idea i thought to myself, you know, what if i

really did that? what would it take and then i thought, well, i had made money really bad. why would i didn't money? >> lung cancer inoperable we pitch breaking bad to not even a handful of places. >> some people liked it, some people not so much had been kind of been dead for bob, six months or a year or something like that. and suddenly i hear, hey, would you like to go meet the folks at amc? they're interested in new and breaking bad when we were making the decision to do breaking bad, we absolutely were looking for an anti-hero show and we wanted a guy that was going against the grain dead. >> come check this out. >> yes. >> cohen take it out. >> well, they always tell you need to have a good good one-sentence pitch. and i came up with what we're going to take, mr. chips and we're going to turn them into scarface what

we're really going for was change ultra-wide says in the first hour of the show electrons they change their energy levels. molecules joules change their bonds, breaking bad was a study and change the change that happens to one characteristic devolves from good to bad. >> you know, the business and i know the chemistry there was definitely a shift after mad men breaking bad that the phone started ringing in a ton of feature people wanted to start making tv shows butter please mass dag and it now really has taken over what the indy feature was now, it's being

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the chances we never took there's an old showbiz axiom. >> you gotta get off the stage before somebody says, hey, you should get off the stage endings are hard in general. >> and i think the sopranos was able to accomplish this thing that everybody in television is always trying to accomplish, which is do something that no one has ever seen before tony is meeting the family at a restaurant and we're listening to a journey song and watching is one by one, the family members come in and there's these sinister people lurking around we're you were wondering is tony going to survive this? >> was tony going to be shot what was going to happen you're

cutting to the meadow parking a car, you know all these things that are completely normal, but they're imbued with this dread nothing is happening there are enjoying a family meal and listening to journey and it's building and it's building the long black in which everybody said that i just lose my hbo segment. what's going on there? i actually thought was kind of like the chord at the end of sgt. pepper, in which nine pianos just hit this long, long major mom and it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on. and on and on and on and on. >> that black was sort of like what the series needed in order to communicate the fact that it is now officially over. as for soprano, those creator david

chase, he got whacked in the headlines. he got whacked by the new york post cartoonists to showed faye sounds getting whacked and chase literally got whacked on online three or four days later, carlton and i work in new york talking to a couple of television critics about how amazing it was. and they were like, oh, you know, there's a lot of controversy about the sopranos finale and we were like what i'm like, yeah, some people just absolutely hate it. like the whole cut-to-black gets pretentious. nobody knows what it means. they're all discussing whether tony is alive or dead, and we're like what those are all the things that make it brilliant. and right then we realized that we were completely and totally if you've been fortunate enough to be successful, they've gone along for a long ride with you and the viewer has a through line for every character and the show. >> but you could never possibly have you know, i love you right

more than anything of course one. >> so it is a fool's errand to try and please anyone but yourself when you're writing a series finale finale, he's have become increasingly more important if you don't do a really good finale to a really good series, a series can sort of lose its luster. >> but six feet under comes up with a perfect ending. and the show is actually even enhanced a little bit the end of six feet under has the daughter just driving away in the car and music starts to play it's c is breathe me and she looks up in the rear-view mirror. so she's looking backwards but then the show looks ahead that

season ended and every body died and i thought it was really, it the work on tv is as good as any work that's on a big screen and so that hierarchy film and television i think has been changed dramatically partially because of the great work that people did at hpo. and also because of the work they did a lot of other places later a long time coming up as an actor film was tv was like less than a sibos

so to suddenly be in an era where we can tell these rich story his drinks has been gained and really create the suspense of them and the trajectory of them get over whatever it is and do your job in ways that maybe we couldn't necessarily in film i do think that lead to where we are now, where everybody wants to eat tv it out you can't sit there. why not that's where sheldon sits. can sit somewhere else in the winter that seat is close enough to the radiator, so that is warm, yet not so close that he sweats in the summer, it's directly in the path of across breeze created by opening windows they're in there that basically the television able that isn't direct. >> so we just still talk to everybody yet that so wide that the picture looks distorted