off the cnn debate stage looks like jill biden, the first lady, has come out on president trump walking off the stage. >> the first debate of the 2024 campaign, and the earliest presidential debate ever. now in the books and in front of the voters tonight along with ehrenberg burnett, the first word on what those voters might make a bit from our political professionals, from r-cnn flash poll, and swing-state focus group will be talking to sort of gets included vice president harris getting fact checks from our daniel dale and new reporting from inside both campaigns with be here, cnn political commentator scott jennings, kate bedingfield, david urban, van jones. so let's far griffin, a news anchor, abby phillip, david charade, and cnn chief national correspondent john king. john, let me start with you and your thoughts. >> anderson this was a game changing debate in the sense that right now as we speak, there is a deep, a wide, and a very aggressive panic in the democratic party. it started minutes into the debate and it continues right now. it involves party strategy just an involves elected officials. it involves fundraisers. and

they're having conversations about the president's performance, which they think was dismal, which they think will hurt other people down the party in the ticket and they're having conversations about what they should do about it. some of those conversations include should we go to the white house and asked the president step aside? others are other the conversations are about should prominent democrats go public with that call. but because they feel this debate was so terrible, they do say in moments in a debate later, the president got better and got his footing. but then at the end, even his closing statement was a little halting. the contrast between the two candidates. let me be clear. none of them and a lot of republicans don't think donald trump had a great night. donald trump broke the fact check machine more than i can count tonight. that will be on the record as we go forward. he refused to answer some very specific and direct questions about his conduct, about january 6. and what all so that will be dealt with out there. and sometimes there's a parallel universe between the political elites and the american people. be nice to see what the voters say. but i can tell you it started minutes in, it started with the first

couple of answers and it has continued throughout the night for my oh my god. oh my god. oh my god. two, what do we do about this? and it involves very senior people in the democratic party, including elected officials saying we have a problem just to cosine what john is saying. i mean, the panic that i am hearing from democrats is not like anything that i have heard in this campaign so far. and a lot of it has to do with, first of all, there was a deep frustration about trump's lies. i mean, he lied a lot tonight, but the problem for biden was that trump was able to take some sometimes incredible falsehoods and turn them into some kind of argument. whereas biden's answers we're in a lot of cases, not coherent, deeply problematic that he was not able to take pretty straightforward answers and answer them to the american public. and then also at some points bringing things up that teed up trump attacks. so there's a real concern here garrett, tonight that there's been some real damage done that cannot be undone biden

solidified. the perception among voters, but especially among his base. they were hoping that tonight would be a game changer. they are now seeing a president who was in the white house do they do not necessarily believe can do this for another four years? david axelrod look, i can argue with either of them about how a democrat leaders, democratic leaders are reacting to this poll. >> we said at the beginning that each person had a funnel mental goal and for biden met goal was to appear energetic, engaged, and look like someone who is capable of serving for another four years for president that was job number one. i actually think he scored a bunch of points. i think if you just judge this on sort of policy stuff he did score a bunch of points on issues like abortion, for example, on some of the economic issues. but

there is a, there is a feeling. i think there was a sense of shock actually, uh, how he came out at the beginning of this debate how his voice sounded he seemed a little disoriented. he did get stronger as the debate. when i'm by, by that time, i think the panic had set in and i think you're going to hear discussions that i don't know will lead to anything, but you know, there is there going to be discussion but whether he should continue and i think part of it is donald trump did not meet his mission either. he read he could not resist the attention as the temptation to be nasty, to prepare a kaye about a whole bunch of things about his own record, about biden's record, and to seem petty and small at time. so what you saw was a candidate who's deeply vulnerable and a president who may not be able to take advantage of it i love

if anybody in america thinks that was even close to being an okay debate by joe biden i'm living in a parallel universe that was an unmitigated disaster for president biden from the second he walked out to the closing statement, biggest issue for democrats is abortion. >> and he couldn't give an answer. he gave an answer. three, he couldn't even give a coherent answer on the biggest issue for democrats tonight i've heard from leading democrats across the united states, elected governors, congressmen, horse texting me and say, i'm worried, i'm gonna lose if joe biden at the top of the ticket bob casey, i promise you tonight in the state of pennsylvania is thrown up in his mouth because he knows that he's got to stand next to joe biden. he's going down in pennsylvania if he's on the ticket, i don't know how it's going to work yeah. >> look, i wasn't really disappointing debate performance from joe biden. i don't think there's any way any other way to slice it. his biggest issue that he had to prove the american people was he had the energy or the

stamina, and he didn't do that. and so i think that is of concern and i think for a lot of democrats it's very, very disappointing. i will say donald trump also had some really rough moments in this debate and you're talking to the biden campaign. they say they're dials, start really moving away from trump as he was increasing as personal attacks on biden. so i think there was a lot about his character and the kind of personal nastiness that he was putting on display doesn't help, him with this swing voters that he needs. you know, and i also think you saw him continue to get more and more animated across the course of the debate and give some really problematic answers about january 6, some really probably problematic answers about putin. so donald trump did not get off scot-free tonight by any stretch. but look there is no two ways about it that was not a good debate for joe biden yeah. >> that was painful. i love joe biden. i worked for joe biden he didn't do well at all you

did not do well at all and he looked yeah. i'll give you the analysis. you kind of have the old man versus the kann man i can walk you through how it's supposed to see it and say it, but i just want to speak for my heart i love that guy. as a good man he loves his country. he's doing the best that he can. but he had a test to meet tonight to restore confidence of the country and of the base. and he failed to do that and i think there's a lot of people who are going to want to see him consider taking a different course now, we're still far from our convention. and there is time for this party to figure out a different way forward, if he will allow us to do that but that was not what we needed from joe biden and his personally painful for a lot of people. it's not just panic, its pain of what we saw night and if i may just add to that, i think joe biden lost in the first three minutes. >> i think a lot of voters probably tuned out and millions

of people are having conversations with their families, with their friends of if the president is up to the task and if you should step aside. and i'm someone who believes the former president as a threat to democracy. i think he is a threat to the america as we know it. he wants to fundamentally change our institutions. he has laid out what his plan is. i am not confident that that is the man to take him on. you cannot tell me democracy is on the line and then give that performance tonight. if based on that, in 18 weeks, donald trump will be the president elect the people during focus groups tonight and we'll see if our dial group with laura coates confirms this. then if biden actually scores pretty well on the issues when he's talking about the substance and trump's numbers went down, both because he was ducking questions. he was lying about some things and he was refusing to answer and some of the time it was the tone they don't like. and so when you see that, when you see this statistics, you're going to look at like, oh, that's a mixed bag, but to vance point about the president's performance, that's what caused the panic. so the question is, and my question actually is, what happens

because to his it's a great political strength of joe biden is his resilience and his stubbornness. it's also sometimes a blind spot because he is so stemming it's gonna be very hard to someone and i don't know who it is, who could go to joe biden who say, you need to do this. number one, the question is again, like i'm just telling you, it's abby's point. i've been doing this for 30 something years going on 40 years, and i have never, ever had what happened on this thing tonight happen in the middle of the debate, it started literally and it continued to advance point. they made a very important point these are people who love joe biden, who credit joe biden for kicking donald trump out of the way that's their democrats, the democratic party is a very diverse party. it fights about a lot of things. it has generational issues, has had regionalisms and everything else. the thing that unites the democratic party is trying to keep donald trump from getting back into the white house. they love joe biden for kicking them out. they don't want him back. they came into this debate, nervous. that biden was in a weak position. they leave this debate panicked john, if you love the guy, how could you put them out there? >> if you love them, if you

love joe biden, if that was my father, you don't put a guy and that's a great point. these guys, these guys know this better. these guys noticed that is because they talked to them. there's this legacy and the democratic party, do you don't challenge the incumbent because when it's happened in the past they haven't been the incumbent and then the comment is actually donald trump that helped make joe biden the nominee because there was a feeling that if there were a primary, that that would weaken that biden would probably to win, but it would weaken him in a general election. and so there are people who could have run and didn't run because the history of that is bad. the point is now he is the nominee of the democratic party. this isn't the 60s, okay. voters choose the nominee. he is the nominee only he can decide whether he's going to continue. and as you pointed out, and as kate knows very well, this is a guy with a lot of pride and who believes in himself and the idea that he's can say, you know what, i had a bad debate. i think i'm going to walk away from this. i find that hard to believe also, and i know sky

sky was also it was an atypically bad performance. okay. and it was also one night, so yes. was it important? yes. but it was one night in the course of a campaign. so i think let's go with a one night, the problem with a one night is that everybody was watching wanting not on the substance. i think he actually won on those substance. i don't think trump did. well, i think what it says to a lot of people, a lot of active democrats is, man, we can beat this guy, but i don't know if we can beat him with the preska as got when we came on before this debate, i said, i thought this candidacy was teetering. and everybody jumped on me definitely single person out here and i just i just the

candidacy has fallen okay? man, i know you're speaking from your heart i'm worried about the president we should pray for the president. i think his advisers i think the white house. and i think his family have a lot of explaining to do to their party and to the american people this night, one night was caused by an asked for by the biden team. they wanted this night and this is what we got. we've been told for weeks, weeks by democrats who say, oh, in private meetings, i've seen joe biden. do cartwheels enhance stands while doing trigonometry, while solving all the nation's problems we now know that every single person who said that has been lying to the american people, including kevin mccarthy. we've been told kate, i mean, just saying everything we've been told about his mental acuity by

these democrats has been ally and everything we think we knew has been confirmed. i got a text from a friend. she's not terribly political she'd maxed out to biden in the last election because she hates donald trump she said to me, i will never forgive the democratic party for this election if the democrats truly believed that he is an exit threat to democracy and that's not just some talking point. they will wake up in the morning and they will do something else because this is not sustainable. >> that's another point about their democrats who are panicking. and then there are a lot of republicans who did not want to vote for donald trump, who do not want to vote for donald trump, who were also panicking tonight. i heard from one who said, this is scary that's how it was described to me. and i'd second that there were there was a lot there were a lot of those feelings, not just from the base of the party, but other people who really think that there should be an alternative to trump who

they think is dangerous? and that's the other part of what is unfolding tonight in terms of the panic that is out there i already have coming into this debate support for third-party candidates, robert f. >> kennedy jr. highest and then jill stein at cornell west, nowhere near as close. but if you add it all up, you get into the teens in most states when you do that, i think one byproduct out of this is to watch and see if those numbers go up a little bit. i'm not saying they're going to go anywhere like a parole standard, but you get to you get to third-party candidates getting into double digits then that's really starts to twist your electoral math state depending on who they're drawing from state-by-state because this was already a very complicated race. this is what number one, the biggest complication right now is conversation when the democratic party, but the other complication is going to be if joe biden stays put and kate's right, maybe it'll be another debate. i'm not sure donald trump is going to agree to a second debate. biden is going to need it now, i'm not sure trump's going to agree to it if the if the dynamics of the race change bill name, i would also watch the third party i ever met. i just want to say one thing especially the youtube

guys if for whatever reason there's a change at the top of the ticket you guys are in trouble with donald trump because the guy who's up there tonight is not a guy who's going to inspire people, is he did not show in any way that he has changed from the guy who people who have a very positive opinion for a lot of good reason. i think donald trump won several policy exchanges tonight. i think he did well on immigration. i think he did well on the economy. i think he did well on inflation. i think he went back to afghanistan asieh should have the thing he did not do was after sure, he realized that he had biden beaten on policy and on image he should have turned the page and sounded an optimistic note about what we can become as a people and as a country he did not do that. he continued to pummel joe biden on i understand what you're saying. but at the end of the night, very few things about the

policy exchanges is going to be remembered people are going to remember joe biden they're going to remember him shuffling out they're going to remember him staring blankly into the camera. they're going to remember him looking down, losing his train of thought, and they're going to remember that everything i thought i knew, but the whitehouse told me don't believe my own eyes is actually true. if that's what i what i said, scott was if joe biden were not the candidate, if there was another candidate, i think donald trump would be in deep yeah, but if i made that that is such a sad state of affairs, something i was consistently hearing is what a bad debate in the sense that donald trump lied throughout. he misrepresented, he tried to turn away from key points that you should let's give an answers on, kept and kept deflecting with any normal generic democrat next to him. i don't think he would've won the night, but you put somebody who was suffering from the moment that they got out, it was hard to watch. i had to occasionally look away because it was so uncomfortable. i think america deserves better

than the options that are in front of them. it's really devastating. and by the way, our allies these are watching. yeah, look, i mean, the way that i would try to phrase it if i were less emotional biden stuttered. but he told the truth you look terrible. those policies were good. trump spoke plainly line the whole time. and he looked good. but as policies were terrible, i mean, he's he's gonna do nothing on climate change. he was hugging the cactus on abortion i mean, his policies are terrible. so you have somebody who probably shouldn't be president and you have somebody who can not be president in terms of what donald trump represents. so we have a problem. it's a country now, and this might be an opportunity for people to come together and figure this out, because neither one of those people right now are inspiring the confidence that they should inspire, that they can do the job in a way that we would get for the country. >> but young voters are up for grabs in this election. i don't know a voter under 30 who would have watched tonight and could say, i have confidence in joe biden and casting my vote for four more years of biden this opens the

door by the way for the conversation about if joe biden remains the candidate, you're not voting for joe biden. you are voting for president kamala harris. let's be honest. that is where the trump campaign is gonna go with this. they started down this road with a ad they released today but this conversation about who you're actually casting your vote for the volume is going to ratchet up and i got news for you. she's less popular than he is that is going to be a big problem for the democrats if this ticket stays the way it is, yeah, the scots democratic friend who, who, who maxed out, right? that's the, that's the sentiment you're gonna here. i think from my democratic friends for texting me saying i can't believe this is where we are. right? yeah. i i don't forget. i can't i'm not gonna be able to forgive the party for pointing this in this position i think about donald trump's lies. >> i mean, i spent a lot of time thinking about this throughout the debate because we the media, i said in the chair and in fact check trump all the time. i know these leinz by heart. that point but people watching from home do

not. and the biden's job as the other person on the other side of the stage is to be the one to very quickly dispense with the allies and to shut them down. and i don't think that happened enough times in a coherent the way to blunt the fact that trump was taking a universe that was built on a house of lies and building, building a whole world for the millions of people watching for generally on some of the most basic base object matters that doesn't biden should have been able to just that world that he was able to build it was not knocked down by the president. that is really at the heart of the problem. he may have one when he was making his discrete policy, the points, but part of the job on the debate stage is dealing with a opponent like donald trump, who goes like a mile a minute on things that are not true grew and if you don't have rabee, but a little one at home is how i want. i'm

not sure. i don't think you're giving viewers enough credit. i think what they saw was the trump that they didn't like and i don't think he did himself a great service, but they think we should just i also think we should let voters absorbed this and see what they say, right? let's look at where they are next week. garber announcements. ultimately voters have to absorb myself. gosh on the one thing that did fact check a ban on the charlottesville thing, he was completely wrong. >> so he's up there talking about charlottesville chump, not denouncing the two sides and snopes dot last week seven months, seven years, too late kind of thing on the deal and that's the thing joe biden is going to fact check them on something that was proven. we're going to more with the panel out here a lot of notable moments, painful moments from tonight. but as we've been talking about perhaps a single defining one as well, this one early on thank you, sure. that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible

for what i've been able to do with the the covid excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with if we finally beat medicare. thank you. precedent button, president trump. >> who is right, he did beat medicaid, beat it to death, and he's destroying medicare that was one notable moment early on. let's go to aaron in the spin room air that's right. >> that was a moment. i'm sure i understand that you your panel, me my panel and people around the country. that was a painful moment to watch. it was early on in the debate. and adi, caitlin and chris are here. it was very early on chris, it seemed from that moment that was it i think it was even before that moment when he first started speaking, president biden, and that the raspy knows the hoarseness and his voice that was 911 and

there, were several minutes when jake and dana we're setting the rules, so it's gotten with and less than ten minutes into the debate. >> and he totally lost his train of thought and ended up saying, medicare just out of the blue you know we've heard so much from the other panel their reactions for this, i think ever since and i've had those conversations so often you had after the midterms, if joe biden after remarkably successful first two years and a roman mark ablate successful midterm for a first-term president had said i'm the transitional president, and i'm i'm moving on and sending it to another generation. that he was unwilling to do that. and jill biden is willing was unwilling to do that and ever since then, we have been i'm just i'm just as you're saying that i'm only interrupting you, chris, because that is a watch party. that's that's live right now. joe biden. joe biden is joining her at the watch party. she was at in atlanta obviously a response that does not match

what seems to be the broader response that they're cheering for him, right there, as you can see here. so we want to watch that or no, no, we don't have to. okay. anyway, i was just gonna say that the two of them decided after november of 2022 that he was going to seek the presidency when there were so many people who thought he should have turned it over to a new generation. and this has been quite frankly a car accident in slow motion that we've seen over and building and questioning it. and, you know as has been pointed out joe biden sought this debate at this remarkably early time because he knew he was losing and he needed to change the narrative. and he did change then narrative. he sunk his campaign to them. >> and we're in the spin room right now. this is where the surrogates and allies of the campaign come to spin their candidates respective performances. and it is going to be an immense challenge. for biden surrogates. we have governor gavin newsom here and also georgia senator raphael

warnock in the back of the room. there are trump campaign aides in here as well? no, no reporters are talking to them over reporter in here has just swarmed the two biden surrogates that are inside this room. and i think what i'm most struck by after listening to that entire performance and talking to the biden campaign officials and covering president biden myself his first two years in office was part of his closing statement there. he made no mention of abortion or donald trump's felony conviction. the two things that they have talked about the most, the fact that that is the biggest contrast between president biden and former president donald trump. obviously, the felony they can conviction, but also what they've done on reproductive rights and the fact that through the justices who helped overturn roe versus wade, we'll put them, the supreme court by four president donald trump. but on january 6 itself as an issue, donald trump lied about january 6. he downplayed his own role any also claimed that police officers were ushering people in that day. they've testified they were actually overwhelmed and outnumber and that is why people were able to get into the capitol that day.

and president biden, who delivered an address on the anniversary of january 6 and donald trump was holding dagger to the throat of democracy, did not seize on that moment. i so can i just for a moment because we can hear him and this is happening right now. >> so just in this moment, he's at a watch party. they're cheering four more years. he's speaking. what i'm curious about. is does he know how bad this was at this moment? he walked out to his aides. is does he know that under my gosh, that's more alarming than anything. you know, he's not the first president who's got a really since we can hear it, why don't we listen to whatever? >> north carolina thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you all ever go home with you? thank you all right. >> so there is thank you. thank

you. the rousing applause going to that party he wasn't a third that vibrant or vigorous inside, inside the debate body. yeah, i mean, i think fundamental italy, i think a lot of americans saw a donald trump. they've recognize tonight, right? his mannerisms, his quickness in his response, and as you talked about lai's and information that was in coal, rhett unfortunately, they also saw a joe biden. maybe they don't recognize this is not the person who was quick on his feet or fasta perry, or to respond quickly to misinformation, to respond quickly to live. he hasn't been that joe biden and a long time. this comment was elimination process perhaps, but it also was stark before i went into this conversation, i thought about the idea of infirmed versus unstable, and i think that joe biden did not do enough to mitigate the idea that he is infirm and donald trump trump was able to mitigate looking unstable when

i think about how he talked about abortion, for instance, trying to show that he was not extreme in some way. i know people are pointing out his lies tonight. that is also something that joe biden was to be doing in a more effective way. and did not and so it's sort of hard to be here now and say, this is a said and that was said like that's your job on the stage to also jump in quickly and were also moments where the sentence would end. and there was maybe an attempt to have a back-and-forth between them, obviously, because the mics they weren't able to do that. and then there would be another question. >> you have to use your time i'm effectively and unfortunately, the president did not do. i'm going to pick up on that. >> i mean, there was a question asked about what are you gonna do for blocks and blocks voters, which is a constituency that biden isn't terrible. jeopardy of losing. he finishes his statement and the moderator, i forget which one says you have 49 seconds basically, almost half of the your two minutes, then he's asked about social security.

and i think was dana says you up to 80 two seconds left. i mean, he wasn't able to even fill the two minutes time he was given with the other guys, might go up to talk about black voters and protecting social security and not to, i don't speak on behalf of black voters, but that was a great example of an issue where both of them sounded just like wild. what is the policy? what is a black job and a black child care? it was like what is happening. it was very similar to the n when they started going off about golf false. why? i mean, those are those moments where i think as a vote or you're just like these are the options, doesn't feel afraid. one of the number one concerns that you hear from parents in this country, parents have to quit their jobs because it's less expensive for one person to not work instead of having to pay for childcare neither of them gave a substantive answer on that. they were both answering great questions about very different topics and chris and i turned to each other and said, this was a question about childcare costs. a lot of clumsy kind of response, but i'll note that the mics and that was the biden campaign agreed to that they wanted that because they were

so frustrated by how that first debate in 2020 went on this issue. and you did see biden not using his time effectively with that, would those times where trump was not answering the question, i mean, trump was asked three times if you would accept the results of the 2024 election. obviously a critical question is we find ourselves in a state where he sought to overturn the election result here and was indicted and had his mug shot but take it out three miles from where we're sitting right now. and that was not a moment that became a point of focus. it was like watching a debate with someone who is not a convicted felon and is not also under all of these criminal charges. and i think that is a question of why president biden himself, who brings it up. in other moments, did not use it more effectively. they used it in the one moment or abroad but up stormy daniel's as well. donald trump denied having sex with her. and another surreal moment in this debate, i don't think that that's ever been uttered on a presidential debate stage, but it was something that you see president biden talk more about from the white house or in front of donors close to spin

january 6. i just thought. oh here we are in one of the most bizarre moments, right? the idea that actually on january 6, there was a lot of good things happening and if you just think back to that, it was just so sort of a wild hi to spin that. and again, i'm pretty octave white has been well, it would be less if the president could respond to it he goes to six days of preparation at camp david more they know the rules in a week. okay. so more than a week, they know the rules. he practices with the mics. he knows every one of these questions is coming and yet he couldn't fill the time now, but i just want to see what the white house is saying. sources close to the white house are saying he had a cold, wasn't feeling well. i mean, as you expect that came out early on in the debate but what accounts for someone with so much experience doing so much preparation? and this outcome honestly, i think the question answers itself. he wasn't capable of doing any better than he did. he had all there. he went from haired to go over the two minutes he was incapable tonight on the

biggest of stages that he sought, he in effect dictated and with all of that preparation, he was incapable of doing better than he was. and you can't come back from that. you can be no stretch where tens of millions of americans watched you and come up empty. and that's what he did tonight. >> you almost seemed a bit nervous at the beginning. adi we could read all kinds of things into the facial expressions and, you know, the utterances. >> but i think at the end of the day, we heard for the part in panels start to wistfully look in the air and talk about what if he wasn't on the ticket. and i think that kind of language and the kinds of things that you're going to see over the next 24 hours is really going to be the important conversation this debate was early is it early enough for there to be some other discussion more fulsome taken more seriously, and we'll find that out. >> one of the questions i have is, who if joe and joe biden

don't make that decision? on their own is there anybody in the party because the parties system has been so weakened, there were a group of people that came to richard nixon in august 1974 and said, you know what, you gotta leave your, we don't you don't you have four votes in the senate and you either resign or you're going to be removed from office. i'm not sure those anybody would that kind of authority and the democratic party who could go to joe biden and say it's time to say goodbye. >> and they said that president biden had a cold and he was recovering from that that came about 50 minutes into the debate. debate. you'd been on. obviously they're passing add-on background to reporters who are tweeting it, voters who are watching at home millions of them who have never even considered having a twitter account are not going to see that. and it's not really going to help reassure voters because we do live in this moment where president obama had a really terrible first debate, his own aides will now admit it that he came off and he wasn't prepared and he wasn't ready and mitt romney's surpassed him in that

debate. what's different about this is that voters already had quite high concerns about president biden's age. and this was a moment where they were hoping it would look more like the state of the union address and how he came out there and how he dealt with the republicans who were heckling him here in this debate, president trump would give his answer and president biden would come out and say that's a lot of malarkey that's a lot of foolishness. but he didn't have the same demeanor that he did in 2020 where he looked directly at the camera and said, it's not about this, it's about you at home who are having these moments. he wasn't smiling and laughing as much as he was in the first, it was the very different demeanor and how he handled trump trump on the other hand, was not even making eye contact. you wouldn't even look at president biden or in his direction as he was trying to stick to the messaging, or he would redirect a question about an general of his resigning into biden and afghanistan. he was taking those moments tours, and that is something that the trump campaign worked with trump on it privately. and i can tell you, obviously this is the trump campaign. this is

what they're saying. there could not be more thrilled with how tonight went and feel really good about it. and they were nervous going into this debate of how donald trump would do. and now they're walking out of it feeling pretty good? yes, certainly maybe didn't expect somebody somebody sent me an emoji for top person in the trump campaign just for flames for dumpster fire flames. another one wrote train wreck. they couldn't feel better about it. and they shouldn't feel good about it. all right. so it was a very good night. and the onetime will say for trump and there's no question he lied about a lot of stuff a lot. he also showed real discipline. and what are the big questions you talked about unstable versus and firm he was not unstable and he was very controlled in control even in the lives he had disciplined, he called biden a manchurian candidate. he lied about late term abortions and completely misrepresented what happened on january 6, as well. well, there were lending are many things that were not true, but it was not what i want unstable sort

of perspective. alright, i'll stay with me for more reaction, anderson, i know we've got a few of the white house has to say now, i want to bring in senior white house correspondent mj lee, who covers the biden campaign, how they're seeing this tonight? yeah what are they saying yeah. >> will anderson obviously a ton of democrats, voters elected officials were tuning in i really nervous and really desperate for president biden to give his aide performance. and after his performance, it has really set off panic there was one democratic congressman i was in touch with who was on capitol hill at a watch party with a number of other lawmakers and that moment early on in the debate where president biden was talking about the national debt and seem to lose his train of thought. pause for several seconds and then gave a confusing answer. he said that when that happens, the entire room was just completely silent and in shock and that this

members own reaction was that he wanted to jump off of a bridge. and he said that throughout the course of the 90 minutes of the debate he and the other lawmakers in the room felt like donald trump looked young and go biden, looked old, and that donald trump seemed to mostly be on the offensive, and that joe biden seem to be mostly on the defense democrats let's he said or just panicked right now and don't even know what to do i mean, these are some really devastating reviews for a biden campaign that really wanted to use tonight to dispel this notion that president biden is too old for a second term. you and i were just talking about right before the debate, how biden advisers were hoping that for tonight, a lot of americans would be tuning in and seeing a president biden that was more than just the 51015 dean second clips that they often see on social media where he does look feeble or older and now we have

another example of the kind of moment that is short four to go viral on social media the biden campaign i should note, is obviously trying to do their best to offer their best been, you know, they have pointed out moments from the debate that they say you know, landed better for president biden on january 6 on the abortion issue. they're also saying that for president trump when he was being more vicious and being more personally insulting that that wasn't a good look for him one source familiar with the campaign's thinking, said, yeah president had a slower start, but he did warm up both on substance and on style. but i have to tell you understand so far. i haven't heard a convincing argument or spin on the president's overall performance either from the white house or the campaign mj. >> thank you. cnn's kristen holmes has some new reporting from the trump camp. what did what are you hearing it,

anderson, i mean, you just heard a lot of what i'm very hard to say and because of that, it's no surprise that donald trump's team is currently celebrating the outcome of the bait. >> they believe that donald trump won handily and there's really two reasons for that. one, as kayla noted earlier, they were nervous going to invade. they had done a lot of preparation. they had really encouraged donald trump to stay on message, but there's always that chance that donald trump is going to go rogue. they don't believe he did. they believe that the former president did exactly what they wanted him to do and what he set out to do, which was to just stay focused on message, to not go over playing with the attacks on joe biden and his family to not be too aggressive and to look hinged, to look like somebody who could be the next president of the united states. they believe hey that he accomplished that. now the other part of this, of course, is what we just heard from mj. we are hearing democrats both privately and publicly talk about biden debate performances. they have been trump's senior advisers closely monitoring social

media, looking at the clips of people saying that joe biden looks feeble and we'll talk think about the fact that joe biden had a number of pauses. they believe that obviously adds to their case that they won the debate earlier tonight. and in fact, there had been some rumor and speculation that donald trump might show up here in the spin room. i spoke to one senior adviser who said, why would he do that when when he just had such a remarkable performance, he doesn't need to go out there and do any spinning they want him to just get in his car and go home and take the win. that's where they are standing right now. again they were nervous going into this. they had done extensive preparation despite the fact that they said that donald trump didn't need to prepare. they've even been watching old video clips they are very happy tonight on their weights of virginia where he hold a rally tomorrow there's some homes thanks very much. >> back here with team outside the debate hall junking i mean what what happens now a couple of things happen. >> number one, we wait, i would

say we should weigh, we won't, but we should wait a week and see how this settles out in the polling, particularly the battleground state polling, and particularly among the most important subgroups. what happens right now is i would just say that if the trump people around and i said they won the debate we'll see if that holds up by the loss of the debate. i don't know if trump won that debate. the early indications were getting again from pollsters and party strategies who we're talking to people in focus groups and doing dial groups. as that trump actually fared pretty poorly on the issues. and there's tone was negative. so i don't think we don't have any evidence before us right now in the hour after it ended the trump gained a lot of new voters, put it that way, right? did he hurt himself with the trump base? absolutely not. and so that you don't trump's going to get 40 something. he's going to get 40 something. did he grow tonight? i'm a little skeptical that the main issue though is the president of united states, the incumbent. again, i don't know that the old rules apply because he's running as a former president but this is my tenth one of these and one of the incumbent is running, the american people are being asked

keep what you got. do you like what you got? stay the course? that was not a stay the course performance from a president to when he walked on stage, knew the fundamentals of this race were already bent against it. and this idea of 38% approval rating, 60 plus percentage the country thanks for on the wrong track and as abby noted earlier, there were already significant doubts about can you do this for four more years? it's the toughest job in the world. and so even in the middle of the debate saying he had a cold, i have a cold. i get it. i get it. that's socks but he's the president, the united states, when the phone rings at 3:00 in the morning, the world doesn't matter if you have a cold or not the president did intensive preparation for this debate. >> i mean, that's the other part of this. and they signal that repeatedly, repeatedly. i mean, he was in camp david, all of his top advisors were there. they were preparing him as well as they possibly could for this moment. i just he came in here saying, sorry, van i'm just smiling, but he had to solidify and it's not just his base,

it's who voted for him the last time around, right now. who vote affirm last time around was enough for him to beat donald trump. donald trump can stay just where he was the last time around. and if joe biden the roads so significantly that it's less than what donald trump got donald trump wins, okay, that's how the math works here. so he has to bring back all of those people, whether they're democrats or not, who cast a ballot for him, was he able to do that tonight? i don't think there's anybody who thinks that he was. well, i tell you i i'm starting to get the pushback now from people who are not in agreement with us. i just wanted say listen, i was wondering to watch the debate? no, no actually, i a major black leader just call me and kicked my butt. and so i just wanted to give you the other side, which is which is that? republicans would never throw them overboard even if they had a guy that had felony convictions, if they had a guy that led an insurrection, if they had a guy who was a serial

liar, they were never throw their guy overboard and there are people who are angry tonight. the democratic party leaders are already abandoning joe biden and they're saying that we already know so that he's older and slower, but what he stands for matters, what he was as i said, if you wrote out what he said, if you'd and listen to it the subs of what he said is true. the democratic party and there's a pushback beginning to say, but democratic party is too scared to scan for joe biden. other people will give van can i just respond? yes, sir. i listened. i believe this i think when we see sort of voter surveys and so on of people who watched the debate and so on. they're gonna be a lot different than, than, than you might think because i don't think that'll trump had a great night and i think on on on substance biden did fine, but that wasn't the big question about byd here's, the. thing people can love. joe biden, lots of democrats who i worked with them. i have deep respect for him. but as you said earlier, the stakes are enormous. you said democracy is

on the lines. and so it becomes less an issue about loyalty to one person, than to the idea of how much are you willing to fight want to give a voice to just jumping quick down this point that advantage made because one of the reasons i started this photo project is washington is off often wrong about these things. so i'm always skeptical when all the elites in washington, other people live comfortable lives and why this is this conversation is not just washington well make that clear this is democrats across the country we're watching democrats who live in competitive areas. democrats, you love joe biden. there'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. but the other question i would just raise is so there's got there has to be a conversation with the president after tonight. some of those conversations will be from people who say, sir, you should step aside. but if you you'd want to take fans position out there. the main organizing impetus and the democratic party is keep donald trump in retirement, right? keep him out of the white house. so if you won't step aside, what are the conversations about what to do

about tonight? those will have to happen. so my question for the people who know best and the one who knows the best is sitting right over there is who can have that conversation with the president who's the personally already i mean, bill clinton, barack obama, my column, but i don't know if that would matter. there's jill biden, ted kaufman, who is it? yes. yes. jill jill biden is the single most important person in terms of sharing criticism in terms of being direct and will she you opinions you absolutely. absolutely. yes. and i imagine that there will be there will be serious conversations within the president's inner circle. people like mcdonald's and people like zebra chetty, people like it needed done, who will have very direct conversations with the president. he is not somebody who shies away. he is absolutely. i think as was said earlier, he's absolutely somebody who is stubborn and resilient, but he's actually not somebody who shies away from having tough conversations is it having directive x? so yes, absolutely. i have to imagine there will be direct discussions with him about how to adjust the campaign for this. but i also think to this point about waiting to see where actual voters land on

this is critically important before, before the, before the elite sitting at this table determine that the rest of the country created the performance. i think we got to see what voters have to say. all right, we're going to take a short break when we come back of vice president kamala harris will be joined sunday on the whole story. short, van was in american waters, dive into the debate between conservation, fisher and sharp gutters story with anderson cooper sunday at eight and don't miss discovery sharpening starting sunday, july 7 explore the world. >> the viking way from the quiet comfort of elegance small ships with no children and no casinos we actually have reinvented ocean voyages designing all inclusive experiences for the thinking person viking voted well, it's best by both traveling leisure and condi nast traveler learn

more at viking.com air. >> we go again there's so much i can't wait to watch what do daily show news team is barely breaking a sweat every new scandal just cancels all a different scandal until you become president. it's an ancient tech to called politics. i don't know, just pick one. >> not all elections are created equal. some are much worse than others. >> how many central, the daily show, week nights? comedy central. next day on paramount flux nothing he's got in the car. >> let's go come on. get in right now if can. >> carry take control of your

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fresh, clean threads dot com celebrate, go forwards in america thursday, july 4, they 70s dirt on see it in the first debate of the 2024 presidential campaign is now history. the fallout from it is just getting started joining us now as vice president kamala harris press madam vice president, thanks for being with us cnn's john king has described panic inside the democratic party right now because of president biden's performance and tonight's debate, he has been hearing from democratic lawmakers and others around the country some within your own party are wondering if president biden should even step aside. all right. what do you say to that listen first of all, what we saw tonight is the president making a very clear contrast with donald trump on all of the issues that matter to the american people? >> yes. there was a slow start, but it was a strong finish. and what became very clear through

the courts course of the night is that joe biden is fighting on behalf of the american people on substance on policy on performance. joe biden is extraordinarily strong, and that's policy and performance. and i mean, here's the president's performance tonight clearly was disappointing. for his supporters. cnn is reporting democratic lawmakers watching the debate we're worried, worried about the president's performance. one said it was a disaster and other called it a train wreck. those are democrats especially word that biden did not punch back on trump's lies listen, people can debate on style points, but ultimately, this election and who is the president of the united states has to be about substance. >> and the contrast is cleared. look at what happened during the course of the debate. donald trump lied over and over and over again as he is want to do, he would not disavow what

happened on january 6. he would not give a clear answer on whether he would stand by the election results this november, he went back and forth about where he stands on one of the most critical issues of freedom in america, which is the right of a women to make decisions about their own body. he has been completely ambiguous at all over the place about where he stands on that issue, despite the fact that he had selected three members of the united states supreme court with the intention that they would undo the protections of roe v. wade. and that's exactly what they did. and just three years ago we commemorated the two-year anniversary of dobbs were in women across our country have been denied emergency health care true? but the president not able to put make that case to donald trump on the stage tonight. i mean, you debated against then vice president trump or excuse me,

if vice president biden four years ago and he was a very different person on the stage four years ago when you debated him, you must i mean, that that's certainly true, is it not anderson the point has to be performance in terms of what a president does. >> a president erection against the capital but i got the point that you're making about one-and-a-half hour debate tonight? i'm talking about three-and-a-half years of performance in work that has been historic what we saw night. >> is that the other guy on the debate? >> the person that you saw in the debate stage that has for the last three-and-a-half years up until today performed in a way that has been about whether it be in the oval office negotiating bipartisan deals so that we have an infrastructure,

a real infrastructure plan where we're putting trillions of dollars on the streets of america to upgrade our infrastructure. >> whether it be the person i see in the oval office who is meeting with heads of the military and the intelligence community. and in the situation room ensuring the safety of america, the person i see in joe biden on the world stage convening world leaders who often ask for his advice most recently, just bring the g7 conference. so i'm not going to spend all night with you talking about the last 90 minutes when i've been watching the last three-and-a-half years of performance. >> but this was a debate that your campaign wanted. you push for this debate at this moment obviously, you can't honestly say i mean, can you say that you are not concerned at all having watched the president's performance tonight it was a slow start. >> that's obvious to everyone. i'm not going to debate that i'm talking about the choice

in november. i'm talking about one of the most important elections in our collective lifetime. and do we want to look at what november will bring and go on a course for america that is about a destruction of democracy, electing a man who has said he will be a dictator on day one, or do we want to continue on a course that's about strengthening america's economy building and creating 15 million american jobs, over 800,000 manufacturing jobs. i got that. this is the after play for the debate. this conversation that i'm in. and i understand why everyone wants to talk about it. but i think it's also important to recognize that the choice in november between these two beautiful that were on the debate stage involves extraordinary stakes. and there's one person on that stage who has the endorsement of their vice president joe mike pence is nowhere to be found. in so you've already

done on that and that's why he has to look for that's all he has to look for. someone else to run with him. who as we know, will embolden and rubber stamp whatever he wants because they're going to have to make a choice to not be my pants and to put donald trump over their country. >> neither person on that stage night made the argument is coherently as you just did, you mentioned reproductive rights. i'd like to just play that exchange that we saw tonight under roe v. wade, you have late term abortion. you can do whatever you want depending on the state, you can do whatever you want. we don't think that's a good thing. we think it's a radical thing. we think the democrats of the radicals, not the republican 51 years, that was a lot. 51 years constants are scholarships said it was the right way to go 51 years and it was taken away because this guy puts could've very conservative members on a supreme court takes credit for taking it away. what's he going to do? what's he going to do? in fact, if the, if the

maga republicans, he gets elected and the maga republicans control the current and they pass on universal ban on abortion period across the board as six weeks or seven or eight or ten weeks, something very, very conservative. you're going to sign that bill. i'll veto it. he'll sign it does someone who watched this debate tonight and has serious concerns about the president united states, what do you say to them about what they just saw? >> they saw the fact they witnessed the fact that if donald trump were elected to be president of the united states this november, he will sign a national abortion ban. take him at his word. he said he would when he was president before. he said if it came to his desk, good sign it. there's no reason to believe anything would change a national abortion ban means that folks in new york california, maryland, all these other states that have protected the right of a woman to make decisions about her own body, not have a government tell her

what to do will be at risk. that's what you should take away from that discussion and just, just fine clear oh be sign back into law. the protections of roe v wade, the person we saw, the president stage, is that how he is every day the joe biden that i worked with every day is someone who as i have said, has performed in a way that has been about bringing people into the oval office republicans and democrats to compromise in a way that is extraordinary these days because it just doesn't happen. >> but joe biden can make it happen. the joe biden ic is someone who goes to our allies around the world and strengthens nato to the point that there are two new members of nato who just about four years ago, people said, is nato even have a reason for existing the joe biden 90 is someone who is delivered 800,000 new manufacturing bring jobs and bringing manufacturing back to

the united states, not shipping jobs out like donald trump did. so that's the joe biden nine. now, vice president kamala harris, i appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you good to be with you. >> back with the panel joining us as well as biden biographer evan osnos evan osnos have watched president and biden a lot what did you make of tonight's performance yeah. i don't think there's any other way to put it. this was clearly a person who was diminished from where he was on the debate stage four years ago, i think for a lot of americans who don't follow politics closely they saw that and they were shocked. i will tell you anderson what, what i what i see now and over the course of the next few hours and days is it's going to come down partly to how joe biden makes sense of this because his self mythology has always been, okay, i'm the guy that gets knocked down and i get back up. that is in some ways it could be a real

impediment to him if he's not gonna be able to listen clearly to what people around him are going to say there has to be some very hard conversations. and if he is in some ways occluded by that story that he told house himself that he can always prevail. that's going to interfere with his ability to be a clear strategic thinker and the panel here junking. >> i just want to make an observation about your interview with the vice president, the republicans are going to probably disagree with me but i think one of the greatest acts of political malpractice i have seen in my lifetime doing this is that they kept her under wraps for three years. now she's out on the road. she has great appeal. does she have weaknesses? yes. to republicans view her as a liability? yes. our polling numbers great. no. but she has appeal with the pieces of the biden coalition where he is hurting the most. and when you go into interstate or milwaukee, what a black american say, where's the vice president, where his sheep and they want the president to, but she's right there twice to

communicator good. on television and they kept are under rapper three years. now she's out there busy on the campaign trail. i know in places i know cohen republican places. you'd beat her up, but in a close competitive race when you need all hands on deck, that is an asset that should have been working for them from day one. and joe biden was vice president for eight years. if there's anyone who should have understood how hard it is to be vice president how hard it is to establish an identity as vice president. it's him. again, she's churned through staff. she has issues. there's no question about it, but she also has potential star power and on issues like reproductive rights. and then the black streak community. she is a great asset to this team and they have kept under wraps. i would say two things, john. she's she was in charge of the border. she could have i was her job to begin at the v&a, going to the presidency, i think she was largely absent from that. so you could say say what you want. i just want to give a quick plug for our colleagues. so i think that our colleagues, but are enters your colleague, dana and jake oh, yeah. they did an incredible job tonight the debate went

flawlessly. it was everybody in the world is watching to see if it was going to be a fair debate. if they were gonna be favoring one side or the other, they played it right down the middle and america is the better for it. so i just like to bottom, it's great, great job. second that on, on jake and dan. a lot of republicans we're coming after our colleagues this week and they totally made history tonight, american needed this conversation. they did. let me let me just take the other side of this. kamala harris debate it is a fair question to ask, right now. what is going on inside the white house every day? is she currently making more decisions in the white house than we know who is making decisions in the white house right now, we're talking about this in terms of can joe biden win an election and serve for four years? i want to know i want to know what's happening on a day-to-day basis to me, she is the big story tonight because her position in this administration, in this campaign has become magnified by 1,000 right now. >> all right. but sorry, we got

to take a break given all the talk tonight about the truth, the law isn't the debate stage are joined by the fact checker, daniel dale also ahead republican senator marco rubio. a lot of hats de, with july 4 cnn concert event with performance hi keith urban, shanty, maybe wrexham the killers and many more go for it in america thursday, july 4 x seven eastern on scene and the furniture business, things move fast. >> ziprecruiter helps us hire qualified candidates who kiba we needed a project manager yesterday, we posted a job on ziprecruiter and had our guy on-site and five days he was qualified i didn't everyone zip recruiter finds the best candidates for all our jobs. they helped us build a dream team and they did it fast is that too fast for you 44 out of five employers who post on ziprecruiter data quality candidate within the first day, try for free at ziprecruiter.co m slash higher hi, there.

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with me of freiburg sunday at nine on cnn the candidates performance and demeanor tonight, notwithstanding, there is the crucial question of the truth of what was actually said on stage and our fact checker, daniel dale joins us now. so daniel, what stands out to you? >> what stood out was the staggering number of false claims from former president trump on first count, aaron, i counted at least 30 30 false claims. now, president biden also made false claims at least nine false or misleading statements on first count, i'll give you some of them. he said he's the only president in a while. hello, who didn't have any troops dying anywhere in the world, troops have of course, died on his watch. he said he's put in a $15 per shot cap on insulin. medicare is a $35 a month cap. he said it's a $200 cap on overall drug spending in medicare, its $2,000 a year. he said the border now has fewer crossings than when trump was in office. that's generally not true. he said, or at least strongly suggested unemployment was at

15% when he took office. it was actually 6.4. he said, trump's want trump wants to get rid of social security. trump doesn't. he said, billionaires pay 8.2% in taxes. it's much higher. he said trump told americans to inject bleach amid covid. we know trump made foolish comments about scientists studying disinfectant injection, but didn't frame it as advice to people biden said the border patrol endorsed him. know, it's union supported the border bill heat supported never endorsed him himself. in fairness, the president did appear to clarify that one. now, the trump list, it is way, way longer, so deep breath. he said some democratic states allow people to execute babies after birth and egregious lie that is illegal every state he said, everybody, even democrats, wanted roe v. wade overturned. roe was supported by two-thirds of americans, even more democrats. he said, every legal scholar wanted row overturn. abortion returned to the state's legal scholars have told me directly, this is not true. he said that u.s. currently has the biggest budget deficit ever know that happened under trump in 2020. he said the u.s. currently it has a record trade deficit with

china that also happened under trump in 2018. he said biden personally gets a lot of money from china. zero evidence of this. he said there were no terror attacks during his presidency. in fact, there were multiple attacks. he said iran didn't find hamas has below other terror groups under his presidency. iran in fact, did. he said biden wants to quadruple people's taxes that is pure fiction. he said the u.s. has provided way more aid to ukraine in europe had it's actually the opposite. he said the u.s has provided about 200 billion in ukraine aid. it's closer to 110 billion. he said 18 or 19 million people across the border under biden, that is millions too high. he said many of these migrants are from prisons or mental institutions. his own campaign cannot corroborate this. he said, biden has only created jobs for illegal immigrants, total nonsense. he said nancy pelosi turned down his offer of 10,000 national guard troops on january 6. there's no evidence to even god's such an offer. it was the president, not pelosi, who had the power to deploy the dc guard. he said let's see now acknowledges she turned down the troops know her office told me it tells me this claim is still a lie. he said he deploy the national guard to minneapolis in 2020. actually,

that was the democratic governor. he spoke of quote, ridiculous fraud in the 2020 election, zero evidence of any widespread fraud. he said nato was going out of business before he took office completely clearly absurd. he said the u.s. were paying 100% sen. of nato before he came along the west, made up about 71% of nato defense spending, not 100. he said, he not biden is the one who lowered insulin prices and medicare. he did it for some seniors, but biden did it for far more. he said biden indicted him again, no evidence. biden has had a personal grow and any of these four prosecution's, he said europe takes no us cars, just not true true. he spoke of food prices quadrupling under biden. that's wild exaggeration though they are up. he said biden made up the idea he called debt service members suckers and losers. note the atlantic magazine reported that, and then former trump chief of staff, john kelly corroborated. he said biden called black people, quote, super-predators for ten years, biden never once deployed that phrase, let alone for ten years but he did at least one speak of quote, predators without specifying is about black people. he said his trump tax cut was the largest in us history, not true though in

fairness, by biden also said this a trump's said, try not, and other stopped buying from iran under him, china never stopped. he revived his pet lie. i don't know how many times i've done that. he signed the veterans choice program into law. barak obama did that 2014, trump signed and expanded version in 2018, and finally, trump's head biden got rid of that veterans program. biden has not done that all right. well, daniel dale, thank you very much going through every single one of those clearly long list and i'm doing now and the spin room by someone on the shortlist of candidates who could be selected as donald trump's running mate, the florida senator marco rubio incident. i appreciate your time. thank you. all right. well, i want to talk about the appearance of everything is as we've been talking about. but what daniel del jus just finished when he went through every single one of those points does that give you pause? well, first of all, some of those things that last one he talked about was the va choice. >> the va choice program has actually not been fully implemented. it's been undermined in its implementation. so i think what donald trump is saying is that basically this was in place, it was expanded the biden

administration has actually slowed it down and impeded its implementation. i don't remember all 30 when we went through and obviously we don't have to go through the biden ones either suffice it to say that i think tonight we all are in politics. i'm in office. you guys cover it, but they're millions of people watching who basically wanted to ask themselves, were we better off under trump or are we better off under biden did have more money in my pocket was the world safer and more? secure? was the country safer, more secure? and i just think more and more americans are concluding that they were better off in the four years trump was president then in the foyer, three-and-a-half years that biden has been president i think that's the core issue of this campaign. that's going to decide it even with covid. >> i mean, well, i mean, it was bad. it was bad, bad. trump didn't create covid covid impacted the entire planet. >> that was how people felt. that was what they lived through. >> sure. but how, what does trump have to do? a cohesion and on the contrary, they got, they i vividly recall when he implemented the travel ban from china. once they january maybe february of that year it was nancy pelosi and people like that, there were criticizing, i

think biden called them a xenophobic for the china ban. and we wish you would have done it earlier in hindsight. so he invested in a massive amount of money, which we had to do an operation warp speed that came up with not one but three vaccines so if you think about our efforts and the paycheck protection program, which is by partisan, but it's administration was a key part of ppe saved, but safe mainstreet america when everything was being shut down, including safe that were shut down for a year so even those things, he doesn't get enough credit for. but obviously covid was an anomaly in human history, something that happens once every hundred years and never, hopefully never happens again. and but overall, people have recollections of those years in which they had more money in their pocket. that's a fact. >> so i want to ask you about some things as you sit here as his surrogate that he said tonight that are important to you. and i want to start with nato the issue of nato came up and what he thinks about nato, i want to play that for you, senator he's a guy who wants to get out of nate. are you going to stay a nato are you

okay with that? >> he shrugged. >> well, i think this is the negotiator on him. i was in the senate when he was the president and he would talk to these guys not like a politician would normally, but he basically is trying to negotiate so that our partners let's do more. interestingly enough, the eastern european countries all punch above their weight in terms of how much they contribute poland as an example, the western european countries have been slower to come to the table and do more now, germany has got going after the ukraine and others have gotten going a little bit more. but the truth of the matter is that nato has been an unbalanced alliance for a substantial period of time. and we tolerated during the cold war. but now i think we have to has to be re-examined. so it's not so much about getting out of nato, but you have to use some sort of leverage in negotiating tactic to force constant is massive social safety nets to spend a little bit more money on their own defense. so you see it as negotiating. >> i mean, i know you lead legislative i would have required an act of congress before president the united states could withdraw the country from nato. sure. you do that because you were worried about trauma. i think that congress has an important role to play in an alliance which is

basically a treaty. but by the same token, i would tell you and i think by the way, biden, i mean, trump is not the first president american history, virtually every president in american history has complained about the europeans not spending think more and why would they, they have these massive social safety net programs that they don't want to take money out of that and put more into their defense. somebody's countries are highly capable of doing more. you look at the attrition of french military capability and other french capable and other military capabilities from multiple european countries. well, they're offering amount if necessary. >> well, but, but you need to invest for ten or 15 years that can't even get their troops there. we will have to transport them exactly like we had to do when we sent them to north africa or helped them by getting their troops to north africa. these are legitimate points if we want to have a strong nato, every country has to do their part. and that's what he's saying. and i think he should have as much leverage as possible to get that done. >> so you're sitting here, you're a surrogate for the former president. this is the most important event of this campaign so far. they're supposed to be another debate. we don't know if there will be, this might be it are you the vp oh, i don't know the answer to that and no one's told me i am having have any reason to think

they've even been thinking about it this week. >> but he will know who it is at some point in the next two weeks and the good news for republicans and i'm sure you've heard others on the earth tell you the same thing, but it's the truth. we have eight or nine people thank could do a great job. it really comes down to who the president thinks would do a good job. and either way, whether i'm in the senator, i get a chance to serve on the executive branch. i want to be a part of these issues that we're facing at this moment in our nation's history because they're that important. but that's his decision to make. >> so can i ask you because there's one thing get you in the president foreign present, pope live in florida? yeah. now, according to the constitut have to vote for president and a vice president, one of whom shall not be inhabiting the same state with themselves. so still in there, that's still in there. so chloride, you can't get the 30 electoral college votes in florida if you've got two people from floored on the ticket. so would you move would you establish see somewhere else and that would be presumptuous of me to talk about that. the job has not been offered me. i am not the vice presidential choice, so no one is right now and we'll cross bridges when we

get to them. tonight is about the debate. i'm not trying to evade you. i honestly don't know if he's going to pick and those are things that you have to make a decision on. then we'll figure out whoever it is that they pick what it is they need to do to make for their candidacy possible. but ultimately, i think and i'm not trying to get back to doing because i do think it's an important that maybe this is the last debate. i don't know. i hope it's not, but if it is, i think there's an element here that look, i don't take glee in it and saying this, but clearly the president struggled tonight. and i do worry about the impact that, that has in beijing, in tehran, in places where admin moscow were adversaries see that and perhaps feel emboldened to be more adventurous than their attitudes towards the united states because they feel are president is somehow struggling and that's not a good thing for our country. and i think that was painfully obvious tonight and i haven't watched from people are saying on the shows, but we saw that tonight and i do think that's a factor here. i really do. >> all right. well, senator rubio, i appreciate your time and thank you very much. and coming up the results of our

flash poll of voters, opinions of tonight's debate are david champion is going to join us with hello, the numbers that details the analysis after this this election season. stay with cnn, with more reporters on the ground and the best political team in the business follow the voters, follow the results, follow the facts follow cnn bike rider scandals, dollars, one, you'd have to kill me to get this jacket off electrifying four stars summer, movie scan and was like writers were your two are now playing only theaters. >> here's to the courageous americans. >> years to this selfless patriots, to the men and women who protect this way of life out here. we call them heroes to recognize current military veterans and first responders were announcing a program to honore them all we call it hometown heroes in celebration were donating $1 million to

charities that support these heroic men and women. tractor supply, proud to recognize the hometown heroes all across america did you know sling has your favorite news programs for just $40 a month my favorite news for just $40 a month my favorite news for just $40 a month. >> faulty dollars a month my favorite for just $40 a month $40 get your favorite news, are $40 a month sling lets you do that americans are struggling in biden's economy but biden's ignoring our problems mark on news time. >> so he keeps denying reality. is it dishonesty or dementia? utility bills are going up, electricity costs have risen 25% under biden in food prices are skyrocketing. biden's week.

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here in atlanta. >> the start already have a new de along night. long days ahead of soul searching, coming for the democratic they party, the questions began just moments into the debate first about president biden's performance. and now within the party about his candidacy now that said there is a lot we don't know about the impact of tonight and john king earlier tonight's at joe biden lost the debate, but i don't know if donald trump won the debate. and it takes a little bit of time and perspective to start to look get that other side of the equation. but we do have a first and very early first read. things can change. first read of history cnn, political director david chaldean joins us now with the results of the flash polling tonight. so walk us through it. yeah. so aaron, i first want to just stress everyone. this is a poll of debate watchers. so this is not necessarily representative of the elector overall, although i will say as a partisan makeup, these debate watchers do pretty

much look like registered voters may be about four or five percentage points more republican than the usual universe of registered voters. so just keep that in mind as you see these results, that little bit of shift make a difference here. look at the big question of the night. who won the debate we asked debate watchers in our instant poll and the answer is a resounding donald trump did 67% of debate watchers and our poll say donald trump won the debate tonight, a joe biden, 33% say he won the debate tonight now, this group of debate watcher they told us who they thought would win the debate going into it before the debate, and take a look at how that changed over time. 55% thought before the debate that donald trump would win the debate 45% thought joe biden would win the debate. look at what the debate did to those expectations. that's when, you know, donald trump did much better than expected. joe biden did worse than

expected among this group. and compare this to these two men debating four years ago, that's not always a comparison. we have obviously, the rematch is pretty unique. and so take a look at the complete reversal again, that top blind there's the debate tonight, 67% say trump won, 33% said biden. the next line is the second debate in 2020, where biden one, their by about 14 percentage points, 53, 39 in our instant poll that night. this looks a little bit more like the first debate. chris wallace moderated 66 st joe biden won that debate that night, 28% said donald trump won the debate that night you can see how this night, for a visit, complete reversal of that one and then take a look at this question we ask do you have confidence in the candidates ability to lead the country, confidence and ability to lead the country, 14% said they have a lot of confidence

in biden 36% of debate watchers say they have a lot of confidence in trump. neither of those numbers are still are by the way, you see 29% say some for biden, 20% trump but here a majority of debate watchers, 57% say no confidence in joe biden's ability to leave the country 44%. again, that is not a great number. that is a healthy, a plurality here in terms of trump's numbers, say no ability to. lead the conference, no confidence in his ability to lead the coverage. but again yeah, look at that. a majority say joe biden, they're not competent. he can be the body. i will say when you look at the initial screen that david just shared with us, trump won 67, biden 130, 3% that's not what we're hearing out there. it's not what we're seeing on social media i mean, that's a resounding loss, but it's not 100 to zero, which is. but remember we did, we're hearing a undertaking about a high bar. we went in thinking about low bars and in terms of meeting

expectations exceeding expectations in that scenario the former president's are in layer and a win. >> yeah, i mean, we came into this debate where president biden and the white house knew this. >> this is why he was at camp david with his aides for the last week preparing for this. they knew he needed to be able to quiet concerns about his age and his ability to lead another four years. it's not just he's president right now. he's asking voters for another term and that was held dana phrase the question tonight. he would be 86 at the end of a second term if he were reelected. and instead they're walking out of this with those questions only raised and being raised at the top levels of the democratic party and the vice president, defendant his performance to anderson acknowledging that, yes, it was a slow start though it was also a pretty difficult end as well if you watched his closing statement compared to his closing statement that he delivered during the chris wallace debate, which i watched truly this morning. it was a very strong closing statement. and this one he didn't even mention the word abortion and

it makes all the talk of republic applicant's this week, including president trump saying that biden was going to be on cocaine and other republicans claiming that he was going to be on performance enhancing drugs seem quite quaint when when you look at what the conversation is now, i also don't think that you can make too much of the fact that 33% said biden won, that there's a certain number of people who just either liked biden or hate trump. and they're never going to say to trump that obeyed. so i think that's a kind of just i don't think that's a reflection of the way they viewed the debate. it's a reflection, but i feel about the two cans. >> okay. what about the other the other point though, what david just laid out. so when you look at the first debate in 2020, that it literally is exactly what we saw, but, but different in terms of who was on top. so 60% say biden one 8% said trump. so this time it's 67% trump, 33% biden, okay, so those numbers do look the same. so then there's some democrats, they may seize on that chris and say, well, another debate could turn this around. but this is a different situation because it's about

age and competence and acuity and the ability to do the job and the ability to do the job for 4.5 more years. i mean, this speaks to the biggest question that people have about joe biden hi, all a minimum, you want to thank all of the republic welcome. sort of gather all they're going to pay the second debates not until the end of september and it's not even guaranteed that it'll happen. i think obviously the biden team will certainly want another crack at this as you heard kate bedingfield earlier, and the vice president saying it was a onetime performance talking about what every single day looks like. i think it's an open question for the trump campaign. also, it's three months away. this is going to be the lasting impression in voter's minds for at least the next three months. so david, how does this play into the decision of the next debate? >> what it was i thought was interesting, just talking to senator rubio you would've thought it would've been in his interest to say, okay, we're done. we don't anymore debates, certainly in trump's not what he said. he actually

said he wants there to be another to debate. there is scheduled to be another debate. yeah. so i think we should use already accepted. it's an accepted invitation. so for president biden to pull out of that debate, and again, he's got a summary of three. trump could pull out of it. it's that one he did. well, i highly doubt that i think trump's i think trump will walk away thinking tonight, serve them well, he wanted more debates then the two that they agreed to. so i don't see any necessarily any change from trump coming he enjoys the ability to get that command, that kind of attention. i do i do think though the notion that joe biden not want to participate in a second debate tonight becomes trickier and a part of this larger conversation of the path forward for the biden candidacy from here, they've summer to get there. they're not going to have weeks of democratic hand-wringing and concern that we've been talking about in hearing about, then they're going to have to get through the convention. should he stay indeed the nominee. and there's no reason that this moment to think that he's not we'll see what happens there. and then on the other side of yet another test for him, his

convention speech in the life that this will be a conversation piece. and then head into that debate to kick off the voting season. remember that debate on september 10 that is right up against when people early voting, early voting. and so that that would be a big, big move if he's going to remain the nominee to pull out of a debate that's alright, i'll stay with us next. we're going to go to the battleground, state of michigan, where a focus group of voters watch the debate, is standing by with our laura coates. they started the night undecided. so let's see what they're telling laura about how they feel now you must break the will of our enemy and end this war i'm opus. you've victory. at any cost i did not think they would be so eager to die you've seen me a ruler and the. symbols of authority. i'm not sure dunes and gallons but the shield, the sword house of the dragon streaming

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to learn more, go to lumi do.com in america, thursday, july 4, it's 70s dirt on see it in over this election plays out like the last one. >> it will be decided just a

handful of swing states right now, a quick look at what undecided voters in one of those states, michigan thought of what they saw and heard tonight, seen as lower coach, watched the debate with them joins us now from warren, michigan, laura, i wasn't i understand we're right outside of detroit and macomb county at macomb community college. it's a really important moment because as you well know, this is a very important swing state. it went for trump, bennett went for biden, but here in mccone county, there well, the boat's actually went for trump, but we were sitting with undecided voters to figure out what they were thinking. we've got the reactions in real time and there were some very consequential moments here. i want to begin though with everyone by giving a show of hands. i want to ask the people who are with me here today, many of you came in undecided. in fact, most of you, by watching this debate, a show of hands. how many of you have now made up your mind? this. is unbelievable. a think about how impactful influential this very moment was. i wanted to get a sense from all of you.

we were all watching the appearance of the two candidates. what did you make of how they both performed and the way that they were appearing in the camera and beyond who had a strong reaction? especially to the age component i would have to say after watching the debate and watching how biden hand himself and answering the questions, it reassured me of my his uninsurance. >> be able to lead our country. i'm conservatives hesitant very cognitive seemed like his data he was missing his numbers, so very concerning that somebody i don't think that needs to lead our country. >> does anyone share that same opinion? a couple of you do who does not we ask you one of the big things that a lot of people forget when we're typically speaking in day-to-day life, we tend to stutter as well. so sometimes it will take time to be able to think about what you're going to say. but regardless, when it comes to a strong leader and what we're looking for in a leader i'm looking for somebody that i

trust to be able to uphold policies that will protect me and are more concerned for the general well-being of everybody in the united states, which i got more from biden considering he did a lot more talking about policies, what he's done, and what he plans to do. whereas on the other side from trump, all i really heard was i've done this and it was the best a sever, but i never heard what it was or i heard that biden was the worst ever, but i never heard why. there was a lot that was left unclear for me. so while he may have appeared like a stronger candidate on paper. there was a lot missing in terms of actual debate. you're nodding along, victor, what do you say? so would agree with that and the rules of the debate where you could not bring notes or any written materials. so i had to defy anybody to try to speak for 90 minutes and not for good some facts and the fact that he's struggling but with that he's always had a stuttering problem, but like she said, i think the leadership qualities are there. >> there was a very big moment as well in terms of a

conversation about the felony convictions, as you know, there are 34 counts out of manhattan for the former president in states that was actually addressed today. i want to play for you all again and remind you of that moment he could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office, joe could be a convicted felon with all of the things that he's done, he's done horrible things. >> all of the death cause at the border, telling the ukrainian people that we're going to want $1 your changed the prosecutor. otherwise, you're not getting a billion. have i ever said that? that's quid pro quo how many of you heard that conversation between trump and of course the debaters talking about the so-called weaponization of the government, who believes and agrees with trump here that he was only targeted because he was a political people opponent of biden jordans when do you kind of grimace for a second as to that agreement, why i definitely think that was a

political move with the timing of how the charges were brought forward and even the charges themselves i'm sure there's many corporations who employ have employees who take care of the financial documents that write down a legal expense. and you just pay the bill. i mean, i don't i wouldn't question every legal expense on a report. but that's a felony let me ask you, steve, as well on this point, you seem to be nodding along what's your reaction? i think that it's not so much the crime, it's the process for the process leading up there trying to use up his time so we can't campaign uses money, resources to pay for legal fees. so we can't compete with with biden i think that his mental acuity is a lot better than biden's biden seems to be very tired

actually, i'm tired of both of them because they just keep going back and forth, back and forth we just indicate some younger people in there that have clean records that and start over well, there was a moment. >> i want to get to talking about sort of clean records or the for tat, you're talking about, there was an exchange happening this time mentioning the convicted felonies, also the accusations are the allegations of having sex with a person who was the porn star. the allegations we've heard time and time again. there was a moment that our audience here are focus group of people and undecided voters had some pretty strong reactions to and you're going to see on the bottom of the screen how they were reacting, how they were divided in different moments, in reacting in real time, listen to that moment a crime to you are still charged with and think of all the civil penalties europe, how many billions of dollars do you own civil penalties for velocity and a woman of public for doing a whole range of things i'm

having sex with a pornstar on the night while your wife was pregnant, what was he talking about you have the morals of an alley cat degree mad, sir. >> i didn't have sex with a porn star talking about the morals of an alley cat for many of you, that was a visual moment. >> what was your reaction? >> the entire time i'm thinking of the fact that i have three teenage boys that are sitting back in there watching this presidential debate. and when i was growing up, we would have never been talking about molestation, rape, and having sex with porn stars. but here we are. so what kind of example am i setting for these three teenage boys who are watching both of these guys? squabble. i'm in this way. which one do any of you were satisfied by the debate in terms of their performance to make a decision tonight, if you had to vote would. you know he'd vote. for tonight can i ask you who you thought one biden or trump? biden. show of hands if you think he wanted to debate who

thinks that trump won that debate? who. undecided it's a really telling time, particularly in an area just like this, where those candidates are focused on an audience. just like this, could they persuade them? could they make them decide tonight? many have already made up their mind as a result of what we saw anderson lark coach, thanks. thanks to all your group. really appreciate get them watching it with us back with the panel here in atlanta i'm sure where to go tonight, but you have to be like but you had a great point about kamala harris. but after she she talked, i just want to make sure people got chance to hear from you on x. i thought it was really, really well put. >> look i think it's worth debriefing on that as well because the conversation right now is also about her? yes. and i thought her interview with you anderson was one of the best times i've seen her in an interview with anyone. and she clearly understood the moment the challenge she she needed to

defend the president, but she needed to defend herself as well. and i think that one of the things that people always want to see more from her is her personality a little bit more fire, a little bit more, more quickness in responding even to things that are challenging. and she showed that tonight. and there's probably no more time in the three years that she has been vice president, that that has been more important than right now whether or not that all this chatter about what happens with joe biden means anything or not voters need to understand who she is and whether she has what it takes to be a second second in line to the president. the reason i think it's so important is because i think if people had seen that kamala harris and the kind of confidence i think that she brought out in a lot last night. >> i mean, tonight, a lot of democrats the cart in kamala harris she was on air and other places and their people are feeling confident in her had

that level of confidence existed in a broader way earlier, people have less concerned about joe biden, part of the concern about joe biden's age has been people not having that conference in camila, so it's it's kinda double thing. so i just i do think i'm just trying to track what's going on here. i do think kamala harris did hurt yourself some good tonight, which ultimately may bless where she been. no one is kept my job. >> i'm just locked her in the closet. i'm just saying she did go to night. she's vice president hubert humphrey was once said, the two biggest clubs in the world or the would've club and the should've club and neither are worth belonging to. it really doesn't matter now what does matter is what application does it have now? and i'll say one thing she has been doing a lot better lately and she did i think tonight, if there's a vice for all of the caricaturist of her. if i would not want to be the person sitting across from her in a vice presidential debate. and they're supposed to be one. but we'll see if it happens unless they're very real concerns tonight and

conversations that are being held had hand-wringing about what is going to happen, what the biden team is obviously going to do is wait the next couple of weeks, see if the polls shift. but i expect that you're going to see not just the vice president out more, you're going to see gretchen whitmer out where you're going to see gavin newsom and they're going to be campaign in for biden, but they're also showing the chops that they have because there is a non-zero chance after the performance tonight that a change has to be made if the president were to step aside and there is a bench demes actually have a very strong bench. but not the strongest person at the top of the tech guys. this conversation about here, let me listen first of all, this was not a good interview. she couldn't answer is simple question about what's joe biden like on a day-to-day basis? because the honest answer is not acceptable. that's number one number two, listen to what you're saying. the the sitting president of the united states is so out of it and infirmed that you're now turning to the vice president, united states, to carry your ticket and your party when they are currently in office, supposedly running the country? yeah. this is this

is a scandal. the white house press secretary, this last few days have been telling us, oh, the videos you've seen of joe biden aren't real. they're fakes. the u.s. government right now has a president and none of us are quite sure what goes on on a day-to-day basis and you're putting all your hopes and dreams into the vp that does not that is not true as somebody who who left that whitehouse about a year-and-a-half ago. >> i can tell you're and a half. i can tell you that he is he is somebody who is very direct in meetings behind closed she's great well, you know, he had a bad night tonight on the debate stage. i'm not disputing that, but i can tell you he is he drives the drives the ship in the white house. he is the person who makes the decisions he you sit in meetings with him. he's asking you for details. he's always asking you for the de thing. you don't have not friendly thing and so i understand i understand what you're saying, but to say that kamala harris was lying about joe bias, about how joe biden message she did though. but by the way, world's leaders or assumption point. >> scott what scott is doing

right now is what the reply he is doing. the republican party line there. this is what republicans are going to be saying and off of this debate that, you know, now it's clear that biden is functioning as president and he's not a great communicator. that's pretty obvious the committee get yak how is it, how is it clear that he's functioning is how is it clear the fact is that he he's talking to foreign liters all time traveling. it just came came back over everything for a trump presidency. the you're our european allies are bracing for trump to win the arab states it liters are all bracing for trump to win is when you honestly look, scott, maybe maybe it is a bit overstating it that joe biden is not not there at all in the white house, but when you talked to regular people most people they take a glance a passing glance of what happened tonight. >> and they roll their eyes and

they say why are we, why is this our choice and confirms to them their view that this is basically something they don't need to pay attention to because they have nothing but bad choices. that is a very, very bad thing for democrats. i don't think a lot of people are sitting here analyzing it to the degree that we are. but for most regular people, they're just saying fair but confirms what they have already believed about joe biden, about whether he can do four more years about whether he is doing a great job today in the presidency. i mean, let's not forget his approval rating, right now is partially because a lot of americans don't believe that right now he is doing a job that they like. >> if you just think about 20:20 all over again, joe biden cannot afford to lose much. so the third-party candidates matter more at the moment, the president has a motivational energy issue, enthusiasm issue with his base. he did that help himself tonight. he likely hurt himself tonight. it's june, so maybe maybe this all passes the conversation democrats has got to try to figure that out. but

remember, georgia, where we are 11,779 votes, but wisconsin 25,000 votes, pennsylvania 40,000 votes. arizona, what, 10,000 votes. so i don't have all the math in my head. >> so he can't afford to lose money trump voters are going to come out. >> we know that. so the question is, he was already struggling. biden came into this debate not a ton behind, but enough behind furniture caused worry among democrats. the reason to worry among democrats as turned from wurie into, i would say panic or at least lowercase p panic because they were worried coming in there already wearing coming in, that look, he's fastly outspent trump on television in the battleground states, and it hasn't moved the numbers, but now you could also argue if you want to do the half glass, half full or half empty argument. he said 38% approval rating and he's still very close to donald trump's. that tells you america doesn't want trump either, right? america does not want to trump either and so but the president hurt himself tonight. there's no question about that. the question is, do the democrats vent tonight and get over it? or is this someone

is there a more joint number? say one thing i do. i going to take a break, stay everyone stay here just ahead. we have more new numbers from our scene and flash full-on. tonight's debate. we'll have that in a moment go away, john final episode of violence. >> they're deadly violence and masters, hurricane impacts are worsening, is it too late to undo decades of climate change? >> violin, earth, would we have schreiber sunday at nine on cnn. >> hcm is a serious heart condition affecting as many as one and 200 people like me and me. >> it can impact how you feel and what you can do. >> i still felt tired on my beta-blocker so i talked to my cardiologist about treatment advances in hcm that gave me new options. >> he was a breakthrough for me. >> that conversation with big for me. >> talk to your cardiologists today and visit hcm. real talk.com for more information like writers we were outcasts.

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imprint.com imprint for certain. this election season, stay with cnn with more reporters on the ground and the best political team in the business, follow the voters fall hello, the results follow the facts follow cnn president biden just moments ago at a waffle house on the way to the airport here in atlanta, talking to people. >> they're picking up food for the flight home. and he said, according to reporters, there that i think we did well in terms of the performance tonight, i'd are political director david chaldean is here. he's got more results from our post debate flash polls. so what do you have now? >> yes. and just a reminder again, this is a poll of debate watchers. it's not necessarily representative of the overall

registered voter population. perhaps just a touch more republican. this poll of debate watchers, though we asked people their favorable opinions of joe biden and donald trump prior to debate. so before the debate, biden was at 37% favorable. trump was at 40% favorable about the same. you see, there isn't a ton of movement there for trump. well, within the margin of error, he's at 43% favorable after the debate. biden is just a tick down at 31%. it's about a 5.5 percent margin of error. so he chipotle some movement there are less favorable view biden after the debate. this slightly more favorable view of trump after the debate, but not a huge movement there. we asked to better address concerns about ability to handle the presidency 48% said donald trump, better addressed those concerns of his ability to handle the job. only 23% of debate watchers said that of joe biden and 22% said neither of them better address the ability to do the job here's a

critical question. did the debate affect your presidential choice in this election among these debate watchers, only 5% save that their mind is change 14% say they are reconsidering their presidential choice. but the overwhelming majority of these debate watchers, eight in ten, said the debate he had no effect whatsoever on their presidential choice. and the final question here that we asked his after the debate, would you consider voting for trump or biden or neither 48% of debate water said after the debate, they would only consider voting for donald trump slightly less, only 40% of debate watchers said that they would only consider voting for joe biden. only 2% would consider voting for both of them, and 11% after the debate said they would not consider voting for either one i guess you see that the dissatisfaction with the choices interesting kaitlan, when you look at this so no, no impact at all, at 1%, but 5% of

people being willing to reconsider their vote or to change their vote. >> i'm sorry, are 14% reconsidering the margins we're looking at now, those are significant numbers. the margins or everything that's what's going to be, what decides the election come november. and so that is you're not going even if you don't see you a rapid amount of movement, it's the small margins here that are going to make the big difference come november. and what donald trump was able to do tonight largely because president biden was not correcting him or pushing back on on his lies was to make his case to voters. and they've also had four years of distance from a donald trump presidency. and so that is how their approach this is they're looking at this. i think one of the most stunning things that happened in that debate tonight that has kind of gone unnoticed, is that trump did not commit to accepting the results of the 2024 election. he didn't in the town hall with us last year and he was asked by dana three times tonight about that. and finally, at the end, he said he would if it was a free and fair election shen and that may sound different coming from anyone else. but for donald trump, it was a free

and fair election in 2020 and he's still did not accept the results from that. we should just know this is the third time that donald trump has been the republican nominee. >> other presumptive republican nominee. and this is the third election in a row that he's been asked this question and said he wouldn't accept the results of the election he said in a debate with hillary clinton, he made it clear in 2020 that he wasn't ruling out and just saying flatly, yes. and tonight, again, you're totally right to note. i want to ask them the question and 28 and 2020 in a way, it's almost impossible for him to say yes, i will accept it because to do that would be two ineffective say, all of the concerns that i expressed in 2016 and especially over the last four years we are in serious i have to say one of the joys of having done this for a long time. and i have is that ai. this reminds me of the 1984 debate. the first debate between reagan and mondale, and age was not a big concern with reagan, but he had an extremely

bad debate against mondale and suddenly age became an issue. i'll never forget richard throat called the abc, began as peace the next day, talking about the motorcade, leaving reagan's motorcade, leaving louisville and saying with boaters now questioning is the okay and that's actually i think it's more than that. i think people have serious doubts now about the competence more than questions and a took, there was really quite a firestorm until the second debate when reagan did much better. and of course have that great line about, i'm not going to exploit my opponent's youth in an experience for for the purposes age is a big issue. and reagan was a lot younger than than biden has now march on favor ability in that flash poll went from a three-point margins with 13 point margin. it's a huge swing, but yet the drop providing, as david just pointed out within the margin of error it just seems audio when we look at this, we don't yet know how this is going to settle on people. >> yeah, i would probably defer david because a flash balls

like a flash flood like it's a moment and yeah, it's common in time and i think the thing i'm gonna be looking forward in the next five days is like, what are the mitigation plans, right? awful house is not the big mitigation plan. i think we saw a glimmer of it and the vice president's response being very aggressive with anderson and diving right into some of the more difficult questions he was asking. so what it's not just about surrogates putting out her particularly is supposed to in our mind help us understand that there is someone there that you trust, right? and this has been a question the whole time. so i'm mostly interested now and how does the party reckon with this the country? i mean, what the polls have also shown consistently, not just flashed folds after, is it? candidate voters don't want either of these candidates. they're not thrilled with either choice and i'm not sure either. when you look at the big takeaway of tonight, had voters walking away saying, i really learned a lot about policy, about what that second term here, because they have

to, the president is boarding air force one first lady, i mean, biden was right ahead of their variances with both their records and i voters have months and months before they really have to pull the lever. but the parties, whatever they're doing and the next couple of months, they have got to move. >> so can i ask you, david, to this point about polling and trying to understand what voters thing i understand the freaking out my navel-gazing going on among leadership and the democratic party right now. but what are they looking at to determine how serious this is, how severe it is? what, what makes a decision here well, tonight, those leaders were just watching the debate. so that was there it was like we were watching real-time. >> a live text chain of what was going on with a lot of democrats tonight. what they will be watching are real poles. now, not just the, not just focus groups of watching a debate or a poll of debate watchers, but in the couple of weeks ahead of us, what does this, what has been a very stable race? do we start seeing the next round of polls come

out in a week or two weeks that shows the race has fundamentally changed because of this debate that will inform conversations. okay. so then let me ask you a question so let's just play something out. people want. i don't want this. so let's say in two weeks looks bad, really bad so then what? when we talk about the time time left, time to switch time to figure this out. well, what happened first question is whether joe biden is going to drop out. that makes it much easier for the party if joe biden is convinced, either he and jill together or with pressure from either close allies, pick donors that's the first question, because it's a lot easier to who transition from here to a new candidate if he just drops out of the race, i honestly don't know because this is all just happening how hard it would be for the democratic party and all these pledged delegates, maybe david, you know? how hard would it be for delegates who were elected

and primaries, right, to represent joe biden i mean, the convention itself could, this could happen at the convention is up because the pledged delegates, it's not clear how pledged they really are. you are right there, chris. i think if we are talking about joel no biden not being the nominee of the party. i don't think it's because it's gonna be ripped away from it. that convention, it would have to be him stepping down as the nominee even the race. and the idea of that, i just think we are so not there. i know that i really want to just take a breath here like joe biden, who has spent his entire life seeking to get this moment, who's fortified by his family, even with this conversation. and there will be pressure. this will be a real conversation. it really will happen. i just think before we take the leap that yes, he's just going to step down and not be the nominee and that's gonna be the pad here. that is just such an enormous place to get to from where we are when you when you look at, when you know president biden and how he makes decisions, there is no gretchen whitmer pressure. there is no gavin newsom

pressure there as you pete buttigieg pressure, the only two people on this planet who could potentially convince him to do something that serious. and i agree with david or not near there yet despite some panic from people as they were reading but her tonight i'm watching this is jill biden, the first lady who just walked up those stairs with him and his sister, valerie. those are the only two people who grandkids. any chance, counsel him and to do that and i agree with the conversation out of where it was before, which is oh, maybe this pundits kind of disgruntled or maybe this person is just trying to get attention. there was a lot of sorts but if shoeing and dismissing of those concerns and tonight was just a moment sort of laying bare that maybe that conversation at least needs to be taken seriously in a way that it wasn't before. >> all right. thank you. all. and coming up anderson's panel. hi, some final thoughts on this momentous night and look ahead of where we actually go from here so proud seen as host

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what we've been talking about, what the whole world is talking about all night, which is whether or not he's going to be the nominee. they're focusing on the policy, what they consider the policy wins, they're focusing on the idea that trump lied his way through three of the debate. they're focusing on the idea that what the vice president told you, which is that he was off to a slow start, but the thing is the reaction to that from this operative who was on the call was like that is not helpful. yeah. and i think that tomorrow it will be interesting to see if that is how they address this they're going to have to calm the waters among their own surrogates. these are people who have to go out and defend the president and they, or they don't have enough ammunition. and that is what i'm hearing. >> people were looking for this debate to calm nerves, to reassure people as the state of the union did earlier in the year he did not do that i think that i said before, i'll say it again. i think trump had a great night either and that

sort of reflected in the numbers and the fact that very little move i suspect you're going to see that in polling. but if it's still where it was before this thing began, that's still a problem for biden and then this was an opportunity to try and move some things. so i believe knowing him as i do and kate knows so much better. i think the idea that he would walk away from this is pretty remote. but i think his job became just a little bit harder than the big question over the next week is look the democrats are panic tonight. you have all these conversations going on is how does it sink in? i think the reaction of the president himself and his team is question number one. but what's going to happen over the next few weeks is, does this subsided all well, how we know the answer to that question? the democrats who are running either in very tough senate races in red states, if you're jon tester or sherrod brown tonight you are having a holy bother with top casey. i'm sorry, bob, casey and pennsylvania is another one if you are the current thinking

was you know, who knows is going to want a competitor presidential race, republicans are favorite to win the senate and democrats will probably eat, gotta get the house back tonight. there's a lot of democrats say, well, wait a minute about that all those democrats for in tough districts are tough states are going to get their pollsters and get their teams together and they going to see did this hurt me? does this hurt me and that's the conversation that's going to trick alone for the next week or so. so when we're when we're sitting at a table like this a week from now, we'll have a much better sense of what it means for whether the, whether the in your face to the biden white house will continue well democrats say that was horrible, but there's nothing we can do about it. we've got to try to find a way to fix. i have a prediction tomorrow. the trump fundraising numbers will break the record of the post-conviction fundraising numbers. it's gonna be huge day. well, the theme of this cycle is unprecedented and i think we have to view things from this vantage point. it sounds crazy to be saying, oh, maybe there'll be a change at the convention. it would never happen. but if democrats truly believe what they've been running on, which is that donald trump is an existential

threat to democracy. he'd fundamentally under not undermine our countries as we know it, they need to wake up to what happened today, because what the history books are going to look back and it's gonna be one of two things happen after this. they swapped them out and how to fighting good chance against trump or this was the glide path to his victory. i i think one thing republicans and all americans should think about what we saw tonight is if you're a partisan for public this is not a time for glee. >> there's no gloating tonight what we learned in 90 minutes on television is that the president of the united states at least appeared somewhat unwell and i know we're out here analyzing the politics of it in the machinations of all of it. but he did not look good he did not sound good. he did not acquit himself well politically or as the leader of the most important country. on the face of the planet we have seven months to go and his term, we have a shorter period left in this election. i do think he walked into this thing tonight up to about right here. and the question ics sand. and

now he's up to here and i don't know how you get out of it when it's this high. and your job approval is 38%. and you already, as abby pointed out correctly earlier, having trouble with your own base and now they're in a total panic. but how do you get out of this morass with so little time to go? >> i don't have a good answer i don't i don't think you're overstating it much, though, a little bit but there is a fightback that's begun and it's coming from very interesting places. do you have people who feel like they're there but is on the line when it comes to women's right to choose their buddies on the line and when it comes to the fundamental ability of them to mit, to go and there's no other bus for them. there's no other both of them. and you're seeing a fight back online, frankly, against us saying, well, you guys quit freaking out because we're going to have to fight this thing out and so they have watched were sending them a lifeline. i haven't i haven't time two

guys who come up to the bear they've made a bear in the woods. yep. one guy gets frozen and the other guy throws down his backpack and takes out some gym shoes and put some on. first guy says, what do you do and you can't outrun that bear and there's got out. i don't have to outrun the bear. i just add to outrun you the donald trump that was on that stage does not appear to me. and i think if you look at these focus groups, that's like a world beater there. but that's the answer. that's important too. i mean, look at the way the focus groups absorbed the night. they didn't absorb it in quite a stark terms as we, as we did. and so i think we've got to see how people absorb it. they have a lot of misgivings about trump. he put a lot of those on display. he couldn't definitively say it would accept the results of the election. he didn't criticize, even really criticized january 6. i mean, he said a lot of things that are going to continue to be problematic for the voters. he has to win over in order to win. so i think i'll let's that's what

happened when carbon, you'll appreciate this the other comparison that i'm hearing from people is with john fetterman when he had that disastrous debate after revealing a major health issue. and then he went on to win that campaign. so i think a lot of democrats are looking at that and saying, now, you guys are impeding labetalol to say, i want to thank everyone. we've got to take a break up next an encore presentation. tonight's in precedented cnn debate july 4. >> a cnn concert coast-to-coast fireworks and show-stopping performances by keith urban a surety ev wrexham the killers tb chris are you speed wagon invoke came brown google girls and many more celebrate, go forwards in america a cnn

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