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for up to 70% off designer brands, it house the designers that get your heart racing had inside a prices new every day, hurry be gone in a flash, designer sales at up to 70% or so of gilt.com today welcome to inside politics. i'm kasie hunt in for dana bash, who co-moderating the cnn presidential debate last night. that's triggering a five alarm fire inside the democratic party. we're gonna get to that in just a moment. but first we do want to follow this breaking news it's the supreme court just ruled that the justice department overstepped by charging hundreds of people who rioted at the capitol on january 6 with obstruction. the ideologically mixed six to three ruling could force federal prosecutors to reconsider charges in dozens of pending cases. and may have an impact on the case against donald trump. i want to turn now to cnn's paula reid, andrew mccabe, evan perez to break

this all down for us, paula, i want to start with you. can you explain what this means for the hundreds of defendants who have been convicted or pled guilty in charges related to january 6, okay. say the justice department says it will take all appropriate steps to comply with this decision in a statement, the attorney general, merrick garland, who has overseen this historic effort to prosecute people who engaged in alleged criminal conduct related to january 6. he says, quote, the vast majority of the more than 1,400 defendants charged for their illegal actions on january 6 will not be affected by this decision. now, he's correct about that, but we're still talking about hundreds of people who have been charged with this there's also 52 people for whom obstruction is there? only felony and 27 of them have already been incarcerated. so this decision is certainly some good news. it's for them we could fully expect their defense attorneys will try to pursue additional proceedings to get those convictions possibly overturned. unclear though, if there'll be successful, this opinion does leave some wiggle room for prosecutors. the other

big question is, of course, how does today's decision impact the january 6 case against former president trump? now he two faces two charges of obstruction, but the conduct that he is charged with is quite different than people who are physically here at the capitol on january 6, he is charged related to the fake elector scheme, but it's interesting, casey in the opinion, the chief justice john roberts he nods to the possibility that the obstruction statute could be violated by creating false evidence. now, trump's lawyers, they're still reviewing this complicated opinion to figure out exactly how they can use it to help their client bite his case are ultimately get it delayed. but of course, the biggest question for them is another supreme court opinion that we expect to get on monday about whether their client has immunity to protect him from the entire january 6 prosecution so evan, can you dig into this a little bit more? >> just how this ruling today could affect special counsel

jack smith's prosecution of trump yeah. >> look, i mean, as poly just pointed out, the justice department believes and they've been preparing for this possibility ever since. >> oral arguments and they kind of get a sense of where this might be going. one of the things that we heard from them is that they believed that this was a very, very limited impact they are they're talking about possibly 249 cases. i think we have a graphic that shows you a little bit of the universe. we're talking about 249 cases that could be affected. there's 52 people who have been sentenced, who've pleaded in most cases has pleaded guilty to just this charge. and so that is obviously going to be affected by this. and then there's 27 people who are still in serving their sentences. again, who could be affected by this, but keep in mind for most of these people, there are other crimes including fisher, by the way the defendant who brought this case. there were other crimes or alleged crimes that were

charged in this against these people, including violence carrying out violence against some of the officers at the capital that de and so the vast majority of cases are not going to we affected and the justice department has now going to have to look to see whether there's going to be a need to perhaps adjust some of those sentences as a result of this so andy mccabe, you have run investigations like these. are you surprised by this ruling i'm a little surprised. >> casey, i think i thought actually just as barrett's dissenting opinion was where the court wouldn't would end up. and that's based upon a very kind textural analysis of the statute. i think it's pretty clear what congress was was trying to do there. but obviously the majority of the court went in the other direction. if i'll probably a little bit surprising to most folks who see this court very conservative court is one that typically goes right from the text of what they're interpreting. i felt like justice roberts kinda strayed from that a little bit. you see or hear a lot of references to

history and legislative intent and for two things, i think he did that because he was was impliedly acknowledging that the texts just reading the text of the statute. really my point you in the other direction. >> all right. i want to bring in our panel of reporters and analysts here. this of course, january 6, a part of last night's debate, in particular, how donald trump answered questions from jake tapper and dana bash about this topic. let's listen to what the former president said last night. >> and if you would see my statements that i made on twitter at the time, and also my statement that i made in the rose guard, you would say is one of the strongest statements you've ever seen in addition to the speech i made in front of i believe the largest crowd i've ever spoken to, and i will tell you, nobody ever talks about that. they talk about a relatively small number of people but went to the capitol. and in many cases were ushered in by the police. and as nancy pelosi said, it was her responsibility, not mine so

there's a lot there to dig into jeff zeleny in terms of how the former president has taken the facts of that day and kind of rewritten what happened to fit his neck there. >> but of course now we're seeing the supreme court in some ways, adjust how the country reacted, how the prosecutors reactants. so some of these people as well, without a doubt, and that did not sound like the same type of tone, i guess that the former president talks about january 6, that his rallies and other things i mentioned pardoning and whatnot. but this case is significant and this is a significant how it's viewed, but we're only 3.5 years on from that day, i guess, but we also remember what it looked like and remember what it felt like. but boy, it seems like a good portion of folks have forgotten the visceral part, mainly in the republican party who initially criticized trump. >> yeah, i said, big picture. how i was on capitol hill for january 6, it very much colors

how i think about that day and how these things play out. i'm always very upfront about that reality and the rewriting of it definitely gives me pause because i remember what was quite frankly a completely collective and unified reaction in the moment but we have seen it move as quite frankly, former president donald trump has politicized it. it absolutely has. and i think to jeff's point, you've seen a portion of the republic public embase rally around trump, particularly under the belief that he's been targeted by the justice department on this issue, but it remains as big political liability. this is the moment in last night's debate. i think he sounds most like the 2020 version of himself, the person who lost the white house. and i think it's the thing that you here on the road, people really hold against donald trump. you hear about the blocking of the peaceful transfer of power. and i think his attempts to offer you skate that does not wipe away the american memory on that issue. if joe biden is able to reframe donald trump as the january 6 version of him. that's where they want to be.

and this political race, because that's the version of donald trump. americans dislike the most scott endings we're gonna have plenty of time to talk about the many failings of president biden, which have already been well-documented on this network in the debate last night, i think my question to you is were you relieved that donald trump only went this far on january 6 on the stage last night because it is actually a far cry from the donald trump who solutes the quote, unquote january 6, hostages at his rallies not only did he do that, he also an another moment pivoted out of it rather quickly back to the things that he thought were good about his administration on the economy and other issues. so obviously they had done some prep work on that. i mean, look, this issue, it's hard to redefine it in my opinion because we all saw what we saw you experienced it in person the rest of us watched it on television and i think every single person has a memory of it. and that memory may be clouded somewhat by their partisanship, but we also have what we saw. a lot of republicans do think that there were people who wound up at the capital who did not commit any violent acts and who didn't do necessarily anything wrong that

got caught up in this legal maelstrom. and so you do hear a lot of republicans say can't you separate the people who committed violence from the people who didn't that is a conversation that goes on in the party. but at the end of the day, how could you ever unsee what you saw? and i think for both candidates, that's just a fact. well, i think underscoring your point is the fact that ketanji brown jackson joined in on this opinion as well. >> an interesting split decision. all right. coming up defiance and denial in the wake of cnn's historic presidential debate let's get rolling a great food truck races, getting up gulf coast from texas to south beach, miami. this is $25. come on. you gotta be jochen season from a great food truck race sunday, i whether you're moving across town or across the country, you can count on pods to deliver when we say we will, which is why we were voted america's numbers one container moving company.

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you're gonna think, what are you waiting for? get your first wax free we go forwards in america, thursday, july 4 x 70s dirt on see it all right. >> welcome back. this is yet another uncharted moment in american politics with just 130 days until election day. people close to the president are asking this question, can joe biden remain in this race? the democratic panic? began just minutes into last night's debate, thanks to moments like this one true that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what i've been able to do. >> it the covid excuse me, with i'm dealing with everything we have to do with what if we finally beat medicare? >> the american people also saw this stair from their commander in chief. that image and 90

minutes worth of the video that came with it has shown it has the potential to completely upend this presidential race but this morning, the biden team is rejecting any calls for the president to drop out. there's no basis for that. one biden adviser told cnn, when pressed about the criticism from inside his own party, the adviser said, quote, i don't worry about stuff like that. this hour we're going to hear president biden's speak live in raleigh, north carolina, and it's where we find kayla tausche. right now on the campaign trail. kayla, what are you hearing from your sources of the white house? >> well casey, the biden campaign just believes they need a little bit of time for the dust to settle and to move forward. they plan for the president and then to stay in the race and to debate again in september. but i've been talking to a bunch of rank and file at the white house and the mood inside the building is not good. they described it the tone of the group chats among staffers as a bismol, ugly, they say, everyone is deflated. and a lot of people chose to work from home today saying

we're just commiserated we didn't want to do that at a desk, but we've also been able to speak to some voters here at north carolina state with a growing black and hispanic population with an abundance of college educated suburban voters that the biden campaign believes it can flip and the voters here today, we're not moved by last night's debate. they said they're still steadfastly focus just on beating trump, one that we talked dubai's even wearing a shirt that said free on wednesdays. of course, these events tend to be stocked with party loyalists, local donors, and date party officials. so that's perhaps not surprising, but it does echo the broader sentiment, at least publicly that we've been hearing across the democratic party. here's a sampling of that the contrast is cleared. look at what happened during the course of the debate donald trump lied over and over and over again. >> the president might lawsuit debate on style, but he wanted on facts. he wanted on decency, and he wanted the ideas that people think are important in the country.

>> joe biden had a bad debate night, but donald trump was a bad president will get our first glimpse of president biden's since arriving here in the tar heel state, just about ten hours ago to hundreds of people on the tarmac flashing them thumbs up, we'll see whether his message is different, whether it acknowledges what happened last night on stage, or whether he chooses justin >> and said biden looks and sounds terrible. he's incoherent. another said simply, we are eft. and then there was quote, it's hard to argue that biden should be our nominee another person said, if i was gavin newsom or gretchen whitmer i'd be making calls. our panel is here, jeff felony. let me start with you because you have new reporting on the

calls the white house is making to try to tamp down that kinda chatter. looked from the west wing to the campaign headquarters in wilmington. i'm told that advisors are calling members of congress they're calling donors, they're calling other top supporters and trying to a listen to their concerns, but also trying to allay their concerns, trying to point back to what their candidate did not do last night and draw that contrast. standing in the spin room last night seeing a sea of republicans out oh thumping their chest about trump's performance in very few democrats finally, gavin newsom and senator ralphie a warnock came in and said, we stand with president biden, but so many democrats are wondering now talking to about a half dozen or so it's sort of a defensive frustration they are defending biden, but frustrated at his performance, looked at the early debate backfired on them. they wanted this to solidify his strength in fact, it

solidified his weakness and one told me one senior advisor told me we are in a dark place but we're moving forward. so david axelrod, you warned about this in november of 2023, much to the consternation of people around biden, you called on him not to run for reelection. >> you said only joe biden's make this decision if he continues to run, he'll be the nominee. what what he needs to decide is whether that is so you were right then well, i don't want to get into that, but there is no doubt that he did. this was a line of demarcation that they drew for him to allay the concerns that people have about about his acuity, about his stamina and they've just multiplied now. and this is the fundamental casey look on the issues that landry, mitch lander is not wrong on on the policy points and the issue points last

night, i think he just scored on that basis, he would have done better better than president trump on likeability and decency would have done better than president trump. but that's not the fundamental issue. that's holding joe biden back it is whether he has the fitness to serve the physical and mental acuity to serve in and so they have a bigger problem today, without a doubt thank david that it is actually possible for them to find someone to replace donald trump at the top of the ticket at this point, not donald trump. excuse me, job is listen, i i think there'll be no dearth of applicants if that opportunity arises. i think the problem is and finding someone the problem is windowing it down to someone in dealing with competing pressures in a diverse party. it is not easy and i should say and stress president is the guy who holds the cards here. if he wants to be the nominee and continue to be the nominee, he will be the nominee. the question that he

has to ask himself is, is that in the best interest of the country he his whole candidacy has been pitched to defending democracy and defending the soul of america. if he becomes convinced or if others around to become convinced that his chances of doing that are more remote than a switch would be perhaps he'll decide that the patriotic thing to do is to step aside it listened some of this is going to be the folks who are closest to him, write his wife being somebody. >> it seems like the only people that can convince biden to step aside would have the last name biden it's probably unlikely thank joe biden has a lot of faith in himself. he has a big ego. he's a stubborn man. he also has a deep faith in americans. he genuinely believes that when given this choice in november between him, who is obviously an older man and displayed some of that last

night and donald trump, who he sees as corrupt as an authoritarian, as someone who is a liar. he believes that the majority of americans in the importance swing states will choose joe biden will see in people around him for months have sort of believed the same thing and dismiss the poll i just want to remind everyone and you can jump in a step we've actually heard this from president biden himself. he has acknowledged that he wouldn't even be running at all if not, for donald trump. and there is something really to turn over in your mind about the reality possibly being the biden staying in may ultimately but li end up in a donald trump presidency when you consider that this is how joe biden says he felt about it. watch what he had to tell. he told reporters after he made some off off-the-cuff remarks at a fundraiser structure, but he is running happy to run no. not

now remarkable moment said, definitely, but there's times in which they've set the opposite of this too. there's been moments when he said he was always thinking about running for a second term. i think it's important to bring up the american people and where they are in this equation because i frankly don't think they're in the room. i mean americans have second systole that they wanted someone else to be the nominee. i mean, we if we look at every piece of evidence we've had for the last two years, the majority of democrats have said they wanted a different nominee, have said they wanted an open primary, have said that their vote for biden in 2020 was a sense of an emergency lever and not a sense of eight years. the people who have made the decision to turn that for years into eight years is president biden and those rods them in the party. were really cleared the way for that until i understand that the political system creates an incentive to put the incumbent in the position to do whatever they wanna do next. but the american people, based on every piece of evidence we have, have consistently said that that's not where they were. and frankly, they were just not in the equation and so i think that it's not, it's not really

fair for us as of now to say oh, he had a badge of eight. what is there to do about it? i think the real question is, why weren't they having that conversation a year ago? why were they having that conversation over the over the long poor portion of evidence, but it's been clear because one of the issues here is there is a real utility do you do primary campaigns. that is how candidates get vetted and tested. and we find out if they're up to just ask governor desantis who's sitting back in tallahassee right now, first of all, yeah. and so the absence of that makes this complicated. you know, there's there's a risk assessment element to this, throwing something come on, who's untested into the maelstrom of national politics and to erase with donald trump. >> yeah, well, let's play out that hypothetical. scott jennings, because i have to say i did hear from some republicans last night who said, well, the only mistake the trump campaign made was doing this debate while democrats still had time to replace biden yeah, i don't think they're going to replace him. i was thinking i didn't sleep much last night because i'm so worried about the

president. and i'm worried about what we've been told about the president by the white house, the white house press secretary has campaign. we've been told a lot of lies by a lot of democrats and a lot of people on the government payroll about his fitness for office but i think i was staying up overnight thinking about the movie titanic and specifically the string quartet that was playing on the deck. they're going to write it out and they're going to play the music, the people around him in this ship is going to sink and they're going to have no one to blame for donald trump coming back but themselves. it is squarely on their shoulders playing jaws i was just going to say a quick response to that because it does seem and if you're joe biden and this is so existentially important to him. i think this is something he needs to consider and those are around them need to consider. what does he want his legacy to be? he has a record. he's proud of. i think justifiably so he did save the country back in 2020 from trump and we saw what happened in the aftermath that underscored how important that was. but the

question is, if he then becomes a vehicle by which a very unpopular donald trump, who by the way, did not do particularly well last night, becomes president again. what does that do to his legacy? they framed it as he's the only person to beat him when he might be the only person who can lose to him. >> and that's the big change from four years ago till now all right pretty incredibly high stakes, i should say. >> are up next here. joe biden may have lost the debate, but as we were just discussing, does that mean donald trump won it? we're. gonna break down some of the conspiracies that he spread and lies that he told last night, and how he would not commit to accepting the election results assignments. are going off and playing the tornado here i'm thinking, i'm going to die i thought that was it filing earth with leah schreiber sunday at nine on cnn when you're the leader

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get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. serve.com this is cnn the world's news all right, welcome back, donald trump and his allies trying to keep up momentum after last night's debate, the former president will hold his first post debate rally later today in virginia kenya that's the state that joe biden won by ten points in 2020, our kristen holmes is in chesapeake, virginia following the president, kristen, what are you hearing from the president's team in the wake of last night we've been talking about the subclass and i think obviously see this as a win whether or not that is indicated in the polls, whether or not voters do that. donald trump won donald trump himself views everything is a sense of winning and losing. and when you talked to the people next to him they believe that they quote unquote one last night's debate. it's not just about the fact that there have been

all these questions it's about president joe biden and his mental fitness. it's also because donald trump did what they wanted him to do. they wanted to get him out there on the stage for 90 minutes. to limit the personal attacks and just stay on message without being too aggressive continually interrupt joe biden, have a repeat of what we saw 2020 when both joe biden and donald trump were on the debate stage, donald trump himself has admitted he was too aggressive. and nowadays, interesting, i've talked about number of people here and of course the caveat is that i'm at a trump rally. everyone here, the suborder of donald trump. so that's that's what i want to point out first. but there were a lot of people here who watched the debate last en former president was going to be yves able to win in november. now, the big question today is how he actually handles what happened last night. i talked to a number of allies who say they hope yes, he takes the victory lap, but doesn't dwell too much on what actually happened in the debate and said move sword, but

obviously we know donald trump, we know he's gonna be in front of a crowd of rabbits, supporters. usually this is the time where he goes off message yes, we will be watching for that in the coming hours. kristen holmes for us, kristen. thank you very much. so as kristen pointed out, the trump campaign clearly celebrating after last night, cnn presidential debate, but president biden's poor performance doesn't necessarily mean that trump gave a good one. the former president would not commit to accepting the election results it's and he lied over and over again. our fact checker, daniel dale tract more than 30 blatant falsehoods. my friends and colleagues are back scott jennings, the reality is they're were a lot of falsehoods from donald trump and then there was this answer when he was asked pressed about whether or not he would accept the results of the election. watch if it's a fair and legal and good election absolutely. >> i would have much rather accepted these. but the fraud

and everything else was ridiculous that if you want well, have a news conference on it in a week or we'll have another one of these in a week. but i will absolutely. there's nothing i'd rather do. it would be much easier for me to do that then i'm running again. i would be very happy to be someplace else and a nice location someplace and again, no indictments, no political opponents stuff, because it's the only way he thinks he can win may have gotten lost in everything we have seen from everything we saw from president biden. >> but the end of the day, the question, i think we should be clear was after every legal challenge is exhausted, will you accept the results and he could not say yes? well, he said if it's a fair legal election, he would. >> and i think that's but as good as you're gonna get. and obviously he wants to go back to 2020. he wants to go back to 2020. i just to me though the report we just heard, this man's in virginia today virginia. okay. minnesota new

mexico, virginia. there's a bunch of other states on the map today, we can pick apart this debate, look what's happening in this election right now. the math is getting bigger, not smaller, and it's getting bigger in his favor. let's just say something on the issue of election denial. this is a guy who denied an election. he won there, are 2016 he empaneled. are you remember this? a commission because hillary clinton won the popular vote by 3 million votes. and he said those were all fraud, fraudulent votes. and he made poor mike pence head up a commission to try and find the missing votes and the fraudulent votes and they've finally petered out and said, well, we really couldn't find anything. then fast forward to 2020. he defines a fair and good election as one that he wins. there are only two outcomes for donald trump, either he wins or the election is fraudulent. there is no possibility that donald trump can lose in his universe and as we're looking at other ways in which were it not for the

performance of president biden? we might be considering the flaws in donald trump's performance more aggressively. he did display his kind of absorption with a media universe and a world of conspiracy theories that many who support him may live in. but a lot of the americans, the millions of americans tuning in for the first time are probably not familiar with. here was a taste it was made up by him just like russia, russia, russia was made up just like the 51 intelligence agents are made up. >> just like the new thing with the 16 economists are talking to same thing, 51 intelligence agent said that the laptop was russia disinformation if it wasn't that came from his son hunter, it wasn't russia. this information i mean, nia absent the president's kind of stare and et cetera, you're a little bit like what this is inside the mind of donald trump, which is a scary place. >> that's laden with conspiracy theories and lies on

all bunch of made-up malarkey. and you heard joe biden use that phrase at some points, kind of a throwback to how he handled a paul ryan in 2012, but joe biden wasn't prepared even know where they would have loved to see that. we were all prepared for this donald trump, joe biden wasn't a repair prepared to counter him. you have democrat samuel listen, the moderators should a fact check. they should have jumped in in truth, it was on jill biden shoulders to do ban, but donald trump's got a lot of exposure last night for what he said. so even though that there's no doubt the headline is we've been talking about was the alarming performance of biden, but a window was shot hi and onto what trump's still believes and that he is not pivoted at all. so this was a big audience and look, most people don't pay attention to trump rallies. most people don't pay attention to what he says nose. so this shined a big light on that. so a couple of independent voters that i've been in touch with in michigan

for the last several months, were alarmed by boat both candidates. so a does this sort of change to third parties? do people watch it closely? so i'm not sure that this was of course a win for trump, but it was not a slam dunk for trump. >> you said that being inside the mind of donald trump is scary. do you think people watched that debate last night and said, oh, being in the side, the mind of joe biden has and i think that's the point jets making is this was a microcosm of why so many americans are really bewildered and unhappy about this choice i would say it's not, yes. >> trump goes off on these flights of fancy, but more than anything, i think what people react two, is gratuitous nastiness and his just his personality is what bothers people. that's what you hear in focus groups. you know, he's kind of a jerk and he showed that at several moments last night and i think he hurts

himself when he does that. yeah. it's still the character issues, right. are they particularly republicans, some republicans in your party scott had a problem with character is a tape though for the white house in the white house, press secretary to repeatedly spin a yarn about joe biden's fitness and lucidity, because that's what's happened. this is a scandal, okay. what we've been told about him and what we saw vandalized when they hit information about the president's covid back in 2020 were asleep where you say about night thing, i worry about the president, david x. >> do you believe what we saw last night matches what the white house has said joe biden's capacity is yeah. >> i think that i don't quibble with that. what i what i quibble with is you're you're, your assessment that nothing that as that happens in that white house is as a result of what he does. i think that's overstated and you can't talk to people who've been involved with them in a variety of things who will tell you

otherwise? i don't think they're allying. that doesn't mean that he could commute, that. he communicates well, he does not. well, we that was certainly on display in this i think coming per-station between the two of you is when you're going to be continuing to have in the weeks to come are coming up next, voters sound off after watching the debate will last night's performance, change their vote? i'm looking for somebody that i trust to be able to uphold policies that will protect me and are more concerned for the general well-being of everybody seems to be very tired actually, i'm tired up both of them the athletes in awe or pushing the limit of what all right. >> ready to show the world how good i am. >> i trained all over the globe. and that's what you're going to see an aw, whole, whole different beast we wednesday no dynamite it eight on tv. stay tuned to learn more about this limited time offer from renewal by anderson. >> we all have that list of home improvement projects we need to do. and if replacing your home's windows and doors

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the deal on top before their current salary all right. welcome back for months. joe biden is made overtures to nikki haley, voters never trumporg and anti-trump republicans. but of course, it's one thing to reject trump and another to vote for biden. well, that phobia bridge too far for some after last night, i asked geoff duncan that question today. he is the former lieutenant governor of georgia and a republican who has endorsed biden here he was with me this morning we cannot afford donald trump to be back in the white house. and last night was difficult to watch, right? job. i did not show up ready to go. and i think the folks in the middle like me, that want anybody other than donald trump to be in charge of our country. i think the couch caucus got a little bit bigger last time. >> joining us now, sarah longwell, the publisher of the bulwark and like tonkin qizan, leading anti-trump republican sarah, it's wonderful to see you. i just want to start with your feelings about last

night's debate. your reaction to what geoff duncan said right now and what our conversations among republicans who really don't want to see trump get re-elected about what happened last night. well, obviously i agree with geoff duncan. look, i'm in the business of defeating donald trump and last night made that harder. there's just no, no two ways about it. but obviously the other thing that i do, what i'm trying to understand and make sense of politics as i immediately do a focus group and so we did a focus group this morning with two time trump voters who are out on trump, people who did not want to vote for him again and some of them had been leading biden prior to last night's debate but after the debate, this morning, they told us that they just didn't think they could get there on biden and again, i will say though they were very clear about trump still one of the things you heard from older voters in the focus group is that trump is a liar. trump is a bad person. they don't want to vote for trump. there was

nothing about last night in trump's performance that brought these voters who don't like trump back to him. the problem hello ms is that those voters needed to be persuaded to vote for joe biden, not just against trump. and that didn't happen last night. that's what we heard. we actually have a little bit of some of these focus groups that you did last night, in particular, you were talking about people who were not wanting to vote but for trump. we also you spoke to the so-called double haters who really don't like either one. i suppose it's the same category of people, but let's just watch a little bit of what they had to say it's like watching a train wreck. i don't like either other candidates. it's like which one's worse biden is cognitive stuff is just it's evidenced. and then trump is just a horrible human. >> it is shameful that that's country has these two candidates to pick from you have a fallon and a gentleman

who has certainly done his best in his mind for his country, but it's time for him to step away one time to step away the other, a horrible human i mean, that's sort of encapsulates it yeah, that's it. >> look the double haters have always or the double doubters or however you want to talk about them. but people who don't like either candidate, they've always sounded like this. but for a lot of them i would always say like look, the thing is, they don't hate joe biden, actually, they just think he's too old. they do hate donald trump. they think he's a bad person of bad character. and so that joe biden had to show up last night and convinced those people that he could do the job because they don't hate them like they say, you hear them they talk like this all the time. these swing voters, they think joe biden's nice person. and so for them it's just showing them that he can do it. and because that didn't happen last night, you just heard a lot of people talking about being embarrassed, feeling like this. is this the only thing we could, the best we can do in this country? and at the end of

the day even though people had been leading, leaning biden some of them in that group. now, everybody in that group, nobody was going to vote for biden. lot of people were third-party curious and a lot of people were talking about either staying home or leaving the top of the ticket blank, which is one of the things that for biden is so necessary. you have people have to it'd be willing to come out, right? you can't have this enthusiasm gap because donald trump has committed base that will show up for him and so these persuadable are really important. and last night just didn't get them where they needed to be yeah. and you mentioned the the third the third party curious people. there was at least one woman who said that technically my vote for kennedy is a vote for trump and she was wondering what she was going to do there. i mean, do you think this is going to juice kennedy's numbers? somehow? >> you know, here's what'll happen. >> i think is that when these

voters find themselves in kind of a pox on both their houses, mentality, which is where they are right now. they take a hard look at the third-party options. i do think though that one of the things that happens with these kennedy curious voters oftentimes is that when they look at kennedy, then they say, oh no, that guy is crazy. and so i think you're going to have a lot of voters right now. and we heard this in the group saying, like, is there another option like is there something that can be done? you heard a lot of the voters in this group asking why democrats can't come up with another option. and i think you're going to hear more of that from voters for awhile now i think the question is going to be, are there enough of those voters that it's going to be made clear to the people around the president that something perhaps changes sarah longwell, sir, thank you very much. i really appreciate it. we will be right back july 7, dr. sanjay gupta reports on hold for the devastating effects of

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ad paid for by re-elect mayor london breed 2024. financial disclosures are available at sfethics.org. again, that's 1807123800. >> i'm tom forming in washington. and this is cnn all right. >> any minute now, president biden will host his first post debate, rally use and the great state of north carolina we're going to catch up with that as soon as he comes to that podium, stay right here on cnn for that and do join dana bash on sunday morning for state of the union close biden ally, congressman james clark heparin will be dantas guest. watch this sunday at 9:00 a.m. eastern, right here on cnn. but for now, don't go anywhere. see on cnn news central starts after a query so many people aren't making these huge strides this is why i am living crowd out loud with consumer

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