you need to remember that he's hijack their brain would fear they're coming after me, but they really coming after you so they justify january 6, they were patriots that de and their mind. so they weren't pushing on the officers, they weren't hurting office you know, they were doing their duty as a patriot because you the different grads were stealing the election. and so they that's their mindset. and it's hard to get three of them. de ultimately thanked paramount. >> do you ultimately think pam that the american people will give trump another term unfortunately, yes yeah. >> because he's done a great job at brainwashing them wow that's but it won't have it won't happen by his gonna be close. but in my opinion i don't the way they think they won't be wai wait for the election because the lecture will be rigged again. remember

how you answer that? oh yes same way he did before. so because what i'm learning and the condition now that they have what ammon bundy i i foresee a revolt happening before the election. >> all right. pam hemphill. thank you very much for joining us. and thank you for watching news night. laura coates live starts right now panic at 1,600, you president biden survived the pressure to drop out out of the race. a former democratic credible candidate is here to make the case that now is the time for a new nominee, but is it too late or a hasty decision and wrong will see about that. plus, forget the tendons. what are the people think? my riveting conversation with voters in battleground michigan who may very well decide does race answers may surprise here sudden, uncontrollable fear

that is the textbook definition. of panic. and it's exactly what we're seeing across the democratic party tonight after president biden's halting debate. but is it warranted or not? well, by now, you have probably seen the moments it triggered a lot of this anxiety, haven't you either you were one of the more than 50 million americans who sought live or the tens of millions of others who watched clips on social media. clips like this one when i've been able to do it the covid excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with if we finally beat medicare the second the debate was over the seeds of doubt, replanted i think there's a lot of people who are going to want to see him consider taking a different course now we're still far from our convention and there

is time for this party to figure out a different way forward, if he will allow us to do that 24 hours later, the new york times editorial board and black and white with this headline tonight, to serve his country, president biden should leave the race given that very danger, the stakes for the country and the uneven abilities of mr. biden, the united states needs a stronger opponent to the presumptive republican nominee, unquote. >> now that op-ed was published after the president tried to compensate with a very energetic speech. and north carolina wrapped hello, that'll be it off of the teleprompter mid day in front of a very generously cheering crowd i know i'm not a young man thank you i don't walk as easy as i used to. >> i don't speak as smoothie that i used to i don't do bad debate is well, as i used to what i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth. i know how to do this job i know how to get things done do you

on to say that he intends to win this election translation. >> he's not going anywhere. well, donald trump actually it seems to agree many people are saying that after last night's performance at joe biden is leaving the race but the fact is, i don't really believe that because he does better in polls than any of the democrats had talked about now, some of the top democrats, the country are just trying to woo psi everyone to calm everyone down. they track it up to a bad night. i'm talking about people, that president barack obama, for president bill clinton, hillary clinton, congressman james clyburn, vice president harris two, who argued that biden biden may have had a bad debate. but she says trump. it's about president for all of the punditry last night for all of that our president made clear there is a contrast

between someone who lie and someone who bleeds joining us now, former democratic congressman and presidential candidate, tim ryan. >> so good to see you this evening. thank you for joining. it has been a pretty wild 24 hours. everyone was anticipating this debate back in 2022, i remember, you called for what was generational change at that point in time. you suggested that president biden should not run for reelection. i he didn't announce and so i think april of 2023, that he would there was that what he won't he moment for you is this feeling like an i told you so kind of moment well, there's too much stake really to get into the personal stuff. >> i just i always felt like in 2020, he was the bridge candidate. i was one of the first people who ran in 2020 to endorse him. because i thought,

you know what, that's a good idea. let's be donald trump let's have a bridge, but then let's get to the next generation and it's looking like that may not happen when you were watching the performance last night. and of course, the fallout since then, there has been people talking about the substance or lack thereof from some of the responses, there's about the personalities that were at play. it's about the actual performance as well. it really has run the gamut, but not overwhelmingly favorable at all. i do wonder from your perspective, seeing things like the new york times editorial board saying, i read a quote for you democrats to have deferred to mr. biden must now find the courage to speak plain truths to the party's leader. they're saying essentially that he should not be in this race any longer. do you agree with that? >> i do. i do it which is sad because i remember joe biden kick and paul ryan's rear-end on the debate stage and i remember being at rallies with him and feeling good. but

seasons change and we're in a position now where or even joe biden has said the most important thing is to be donald trump so we have to make the decision as a party to be donald trump and we'll was most i think threatening last night is the way trump was able to start reshaping covid, reshaping the economy, reshaping abortion rights and look, there's so much at stake for women in this election we have to have a candidate that can articulate the pro-choice position and how it's the largest governmental overreach in this country with these women america are free. they don't want the government in their bodies. if we can't make that basic democratic argument, if we can't push back against the lies. and then put a big vision forward for the country. we're in a really bad spot and i think the leaders in the

democratic party have to come together and we've got to move towards a plan b. and it's not like i don't think there's a problem with that. like we have so much talent, we have gretchen whitmer and governor shapiro and senator warnock and kelley and sherrod brown and ohio. we've got so much talent. what is wrong with going to a convention and showing the american in people that we have a talented group of people, especially our governors, that are doing a phenomenal job are senators have passed bills to re-industrialize the country infrastructure chips act inflation reduction dealing with climate. let's go show the world what we got. well, just two points. one, i know as you did not include vice president harris as part of that list of people, why not? >> i think she'd be i've rarely seen. a political figure evolve as much as i thought i heard that her interviews last

night absolutely incredible. like i thought she did a phenomenal job. i think she has grown so much in the job and i don't say that in a condescending way, like these jobs are tough yeah. she has grown into this job. i think she meets the sweet spot around choice around with the younger generation wants. and she would have for months to go out in campaign. i mean, why wouldn't we want to give her a chance to do that in i'll put a vp on and like let's go. well, i think that would be that would be very exciting. >> the second point though, the question, why not? and it can feel rhetorical when people ask that the way you have. but then again, some people have a response and the why not? they will look at the calendar and they'll say and hold on. democrats have had four years to do something. we're talking weeks from the rnc convention. we're talking a few more weeks from that to the dnc convention. and then what? 129 days until the presidential her election is it too late to do

anything different now? no. i mean, it's not like 1920 where you have to get on a train and go around the country we have a big convention. whoever emerges from that will be a household name around the world within 24 hours. and what social media today and i think that excitement that it would generate, and it's not a stepping down for joe biden, it's a stepping up to meet the responsibilities that we have. i've thought a lot about in the last couple of weeks, we traveled to germany the berlin wall. we saw these things. i thought about president kennedy in the cuban missile crisis, and i think this is what the average person in ohio thinks about whether it's consciously or subconsciously he had the joint chiefs of staff pushing him humiliating him, calling him names because he was afraid to go to world war three and he had the forced to stand up to them. and i think when the american people watch a debate like that, they want someone who is able to not just present

during the debate or give a fiery speech, but in those it's tough moments historical moments. are you able to stand up and understand what's going on, understand the context, understand the details, and be able to say no in stand up to forces that are coming your way, whether it's interest groups or protesters or vladimir putin or whatever, maybe un, unfortunately is sad as it is. they didn't see that last night. and that's a problem because trump is many times as he's lied, he came off this stronger. >> you have to wonder in a debate format the things you've just described to me speak about governance i don't know. you can capture the breadth of what you've just described and what it would take to govern in a debate performance for either candidate, for any candidate deal to capture all those things. that's probably one of the main conundrum to thinking about it. but before i let you go, no, you don't have much time? i'm let's say biden stays in because he doesn't seem to say or suggests in any

way that he is stepping danny says fight in them. he says that of course means that vice president harris would be debated whoever would be the inevitable choice of donald we'll trump as they're running mate there was a conference that we had on this very show where a former communications director to vice president harris said that she felt the most formidable opponent for a vp debate, let alone opposition, would be senator jd vance for vice president harris do you agree with that? >> he's he's a talented guy. i mean, i ran against them. i debated them, thought i'd beat them in the debates but he, he's, he knows, i think how to present and i think put lipstick on the trumpism pig and make it make it seem like there's this intellectual coherence behind that is very talented at doing that and yeah, i think i think but i think she would do very, very well against him because at the end of the day he is like the top boot liquor for for donald

trump, like he he is the one who i think trump would feel the most comfortable with because he would be very subservient to him. so i think that would make trump feel very comfortable, but he does have a way of articulating this right-wing extreme agenda and kinda make it sometimes seem countable. and i think that that would make it i think challenging for her, but i think she would do fantastic. >> well, we've got a lot of days between now and the general election, not as many as i'm sure they would lag. but your efficiencies hey, claire congressman, thank you for joining. thank you i want to bring in the author of the fight of his life inside joe biden's white house, chris whipple. chris, thank you for joining this evening quite a 24 hour period. i have to say and before biden decided to run and you said that dr. jill biden would have been the only person who could have talked him out of running is that still the case today? yeah. i believe it is. and look, i think obviously joe biden had a terrible night

but unless there's something wrong with him that we're not aware of. he's going to be the nominee and by the way, nothing will make him more determined to keep running that a new york times editorial suggesting that he get apps. there's no love lost between joe biden and the new york times. but the notion that the cavalry will somehow come writing and magically and persuade joe biden to step aside and favor of some other candidate is just a fantasy. i made a really would require a kind of family intervention by jill biden, hunter, his sister, val, god knows who else ted kaufman perhaps mcdonald on to persuade him to step aside. and there's no indication that they want to do that. even if that succeeded, then you have the problem of this disparate democratic party somehow magically coalescing around

some candidate. and who knows who that would be of course the notion of the whole idea of an open convention that way just size disaster. i mean, we've been down that road before, so look, there is no plan b, no viable plan b. i think it's gonna be joe biden. >> well, you know what there's a lot of effort to get to even a potential consideration for somebody else. i stick around, i want to come right back to you, but i want to expand our conversation with cnn commentator karen phineas in an opinion chapter, sophia nelson and republican track just maliuk, abdul. thank you. all. and you heard a little bit about what he was saying. first of all, there's been a lot of criticism of the president's performance, but there's also a lot of christian, but the former president's performance in terms of the amount of lives he was saying and beyond really, i wonder for many voters it was form or substance, not over or under karen, i want to get this point though, the new york times and in turiel board they are not mincing words. are they being rash or rational if i were joe

biden, i would actually take a page out of a donald trump playbook and go on offense against the new york times on this one and say, i am not going to let the new york times tell me what to do or how to run this country, right? >> like i actually would do that because part of what they need to do right now is get back on offense i mean, i've said this earlier today. i will stipulate to the facts of the case and was a terrible night. no question. now, the question is between now and election, which is really september by the way, because when early voting starts, how do you make sure that we gain people's confidence? and two things can be true. yes, the president had, had a bad night last night. no question at the same time we also saw donald trump stand up there for 90 minutes with a torrent of lies doubling down on policies that we are

own reporting has said would increase costs for the middle-class. so there's plenty there in terms of should he get out and what does that mean? look, i agree with chris. i think it's unrealistic. i don't think it's going to happen. i think the chances of then coalescing behind one person but also i think joe biden, look, he's done the job and i think the point that you made is this 190 minute debate. tell us everything we need to know. well, me ask you about this maliuk because first, this is not the oddest thing that an all issues aside an incumbent president doesn't often perform well the first time around, there, whether the president, at some points in time, having said that, though both of these men 18 years, they don't want to be one-term presidents. when it comes to trump, who is really claiming a kind of victory. there are many who were criticizing the statements that he's made, the lives that were said and i'm wondering from your perspective, for voters on the republican side and particular, did they get enough to hang their hat on to

say a-ha trump can be my guy. >> i think they did in this case because there's a difference in the type of debate performances that both of them initially gave. so joe biden and the problem that joe biden has is that his beit performance fed into narratives about joe biden and donald trump's case. are you surprised that donald trump was lying? probably people would say no, but donald trump because the expectations that democrats in many people had a job, epp donald trump that, that he wouldn't do as well. he they actually lord expectations for donald trump and i think that donald trump actually outperform he focused on policy. yes, donald trump said things that he exaggerated because he does that all the time. fine but if you are a republican and you were wondering, can donald trump be disciplined can donald trump for 90 minutes in a debate with joe biden, be disciplined, not feel compelled to just cut joe biden off because that's what we've seen, what donald trump donald trump actually shown. he showed at least republican voters and i'm hearing this

all over the place something different and it was the discipline that he demonstrated on last night. >> wow. so i guess how you, i think that a lot of ways he is accurate not counting that, but what a low bar i mean, i i'm from i'm not that old, but i'm from a generation when we didn't get anything past that third place ribbon. like if you came in fourth, you would just you just lost their parents weren't like, oh, that was great. you really tried it was 123 this sounds like 1046 is the standard here. is that were publicly voters want. i can't speak to what republican voters won't, but i thought that the fact of the matter is donald trump didn't have a good debate either but the bar is so low is you said that we aren't going to focus on that because what you saw the way that seen in split the screen and of course we love cnn was the focus on president buying like he just looked like he was lost, like he didn't look into the camera. like we're looking into the camera nail to talk to the audience, even when you're off camera, you're looking into the camera. and so the

contrast was stark in just the way it appeared. so you didn't pay attention to what trump said because you couldn't take your eyes off a biden. and what biden was doing. and that's what i heard. so i'm not sure what republican voters want but you know, my take on this debate is a little bit different. so i'll let you ask the question. i won't just cut you in that product that was written in the atlanta journal constitution. >> who are the written it was talking about kamala harris is the obvious, the vice president, but really that the focus is now on her. yeah, i think that she was the winner last night. and, you've heard congressman ryan and others talk about an obviously anybody who is as old as we are carrying the you're right now, we have and what i mean by that is the vice president is traditionally the hatchet person right there. the person you send out to do the job to deal with the hard things in the campaign, vice president harris step all the way up last

night, and she did it. let me go back to you, chris, because you're in the wings force as well what do you make a bad obviously normally a vice presidential candidate is not going to control the voters momentum, but it's increasingly important as we've seen, we still don't know who the running mate will be for donald trump. we know it won't be mike pence. when you look at this contrast between the potential vp pick and hu vice president kamala harris they've shown herself to be including last night and a lot of our interviews what do you think is going to be the focus? >> well, i think she's found her voice. i think and particularly last night she was terrific doing cleanup for joe biden. and i think she has been really effective, especially on women's reproductive rights and cheap, she'll be deployed for that but the vice president at the end of the day really doesn't make much difference in presidential elections. just one point on something safiya said this was a bizarre debate and i thank bob woodward, put his finger on something important and it's the question, what happened? the

state of the union, joe biden was very effective on his feet. so as the joe biden who was campaigning yesterday in north carolina, somebody else was on the stage last night. and i think we need to find out why we need to do more reporting about this because it was really a jaw-droppingly bad performance and there's got to be some explanation for it well, i won't speculate as to why the rakhine was today. >> but what are you suggesting that that between the difference between these different dates obviously, he's or months apart. so union, there is an audience and one there's a crack on the campaign and the other, well, it can be any number of things. i mean, in 1984, ronald reagan had a terrible first debate and nancy reagan was convinced that he was just over briefed and she tried to fire the guy, dick dharma. and who is in charge of the briefing? maybe that happened here, but i think when you look at that, again, that stunning performance by biden

or lack of performance, i think there's something bigger there and i think we need to do more reporting and find out what it is. >> well, assuming there is something i'm sure that the diligent reporting we'll cover it. it has not to this day, but maybe it's like president obama said, who articulates. sometimes you just have a bad day. not everyone can come to life at night, like laura coates. thank you so much, everyone. i appreciate it. donald trump, dry and take advantage of biden stumbles last night by holding a rally in a state he thinks he can flip, but he repeated several falsehoods while he was there, former virginia governor bob mcdonnell was at that rally and supporting trump. and he joins me next well my doctor gave me breaths tree for my copd things changed race treaty, better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduce flare-ups registry what replays a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems, it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart

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stoic. where even leading in the state four as you would say, the commonwealth of virginia well, the latest polls actually do not show trump leading, but they do show a very tight race with both candidates tied and 48% back in 2020. >> remember that president biden won the commonwealth by seven percentage points, helping propel him to a victory. and trump made looking to expand the electoral map, but his debate performance included, frankly, an avalanche of lives, more than 30 according to cnn's fact checker, many well, they were pretty big fish in addition to the speech i made in front of, i believe the largest crowd i've ever spoken to, and i will tell you, nobody ever talks about that. they talk about a relatively small number of people that went to the capitol and in many cases were ushered in by the police. i heard him say before insulin i'm the one that got the insulin down for the seniors. you can take the life of the

baby in the ninth month. and even after birth, because some states democrat-run take it after birth, he's willing to, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby with me. now, republican and trump supporter who knows virginia quite well, former governor bob mcdonnell, who was at trump's rally, governor, thank you so much for joining me this evening. >> how are you? >> lauren? fine. thank you. long day. long. de sweltering heat with the president well, there that's quite the combination you'd trump is actually been taking a bit of a victory lap at his rally today, and he repeated some of the statements that we've just played in, frankly, about january 6, and also abortion do you think that those messages are going to resonate with a general elected electorate one. >> and is it the right message to be sending now? >> but first let me just say about the debate. i want to commend see it in the questions

that were given by the moderators we're short, they were clear, they were pithy. they gave all the time for the two candidates to answer the questions corrupt it. and if they didn't answer the held them accountable and ask it again. and i thought it was as good a presidential debate by the moderators as i've, i've seen. so anyway, kudos well done on that i think the question i think the president, at least from the message that he delivered today at this rally here down the road for me in chesapeake, virginia, was double downing on some of the key points that he made last night. he sees this economy let's seize this election of really about three things. one is the economy. it's inflation it's gas prices is the overall cost of living. it's the deficit that's been run under, under this president and the debt. and then solutions on medicare and social security, which is going to be bankrupt in ten years. so he's gotten

real practical things. he's raising their and the other thing of course is immigration. the message today was every state is now a border state. and i think the numbers from the border patrol and others are pretty clear about what's happened the last three years with a variable border security. and it's a concern for people all over the country start thing of classes. >> excuse me, 30 he's he's pretty clear today and i've heard this from a lot of experts, including some of the military about what's going on in the ukraine. >> and with hamas attack and israel, the saber rattling of china, aranda, and maybe a year away from nuclear armaments that this is an increasingly dangerous world. and i think that's why laura, you saw some of the some of the gaps and some of that those long stairs and rambling answers that president biden gave a couple of times were of great concern. the leader of the free world has got to be clear and on ball all the time. >> yes, the leader of the free world, as we call, it, needs to be clear, but there also is a requirement there ought to be

of honesty and i do wonder what you make of the fact that there were a number of times even save for the points that you would like a candidate to make on message. and the way that you have there is ample ammunition to suggest that he was not the only truthful or mistaken in what he was saying, but there were a number of statements that were outright lies and doubling down as you pointed, is that going to be enough to convince voters who might be teetering on the fence or wondering how they want their leader to be received and present themselves doesn't the align concern you of course. i wanted to paint it in both parties. it'll tell the truth what i do about what a hybrid and a lot of loose looseness with the facts laura, i mean, president biden has said that he inherited 9% inflation, right? that's not true with 1.9%. president trump has said that when you add it all the other there are factors that the inflation rate under, under

biden has been 30 or 40%. that's not true. and so yeah, i don't like it at all. he's straight, be honest. people do miss miss the facts because there's a lot of details on these policy issues but i think that both candidates last night at times were so full of hyperbola and i'm the best year, the worst you're a criminal i mean, i don't think that's the fitting of a president or a nominee for president, and you ought to be leveling with american people, tell them what you're gonna do to make their lives better and create better opportunity we're on preserve the american dream. i think the more positive clones in this race is going to carry the de in these close swing states. >> you mean you didn't want to hear about their golf handicap that wasn't of interest to you guys up obviously being facetious that was a moment as well. i can yeah. well, let me ask you though because the issues are important, but so is the democracy more broadly? and we believe in the peaceful transition of power he has been

asked the former president, men number of times in different iterations would he sand by an accept the results of whatever comes in november? he has been caveat it, making it contingent does that give you pause? given frankly, the last time they debated democracy in peril was not a huge headline because january 6 had not happened does it give you pause that he is not just simply saying yes. and i believe in a fair and free elections that we have yeah, the only thing worse than your particular candidate losing is that there are things that happen during election that's so undermine the people's faith in a fair and free, an honest election that they lose faith in american institutions. >> i think we've had a little bit of that with both political parties in their rhetoric. the last, the last couple of years, i've never bought that. there's any rigged election. there was no dishonest election russian last time, there were 60 lawsuits every state,

including half on being republican states certified the election. so i don't buy that there hadn't been a evidence presented that carried the de i wish he just said unequivocally. yes, i will accept the election's now of course, if there's evidence of widespread fraud by either political part of the other one has the right to contest that through the statutes that are available. so i guess that was the caveat, but it was in light of what's happened the last time. i wish it had just been saying yes, i'll accept it and i'm going to win fair and square yes is my father always says if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride former governor robert mcdonald. thank you so much for joining okay. >> laura. thank you. >> ahead how did undecided voters see last night's debate? i spoke with the group of them in michigan in a very important county afterwards and their thoughts on the age question. yep, it came up, we'll share it next. >> the, final episode of violence, their deadly by lynch

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v0 to three-to-one, three-to-one. today five good things. listen wherever you get your podcasts many americans were already concerned about the ages of both 2024 presidential candidates going into last night's debate, i'd have a chance to watch the showdown with undecided voters in the key battleground state of michigan in the purple detroit suburb of warren. >> here's what they told me after it was all over i want to hear from all of you by your show of hands who think this debate went well for the former president donald trump? and who thought this debate went well for president biden by a show of hands, how many of your minds were changed in favor of one candidate or another in this debate? okay. who is mine

was change with respect to those who raised her hand with respect to president trump and what way i. >> think mr. biden, president biden's cognitive level has definitely decreased and i i don't trust that in the, next four years he will be making this the decisions that he needs to for our country age was a big issue for all of you going in and a big issue as you're talking about cognitive decline. >> but age more broadly. did anyone else share her concern, wendy's concern about the cognitive ability? i've either candidates today's show of hands your hand went up pretty quickly. tell me why concerned with the elderly of his biden's responses seemed like his lack of his knowledge of his data. >> he kept mixing his numbers even from 400 to 4 million. so

i just really concerned with him not have been able to handle on to spot, let alone represented in our country and speaking to other debates of regarding he's got no his facts. it's gotten knew his dad. it's got to know the numbers. it's got to be truthful in that you were also responding in a similar way. what was your reaction i actually was the opposite. i was more impressed with the way biden handled things. i've seen situations where he doesn't necessarily know what to say for many people, we have to remember. we also stutter when we're thinking about what to say. we also sometimes need to take time to process through the thoughts and arrange them correctly so when you're put under this time constraint and there's a lot of things you're older. i get that it's obviously not the best situation, but i think he did a great job presenting his what he's done an office, his policies, the way that he is kind of reshaped some things in america. i really just thought he did a great job with the factual side of things. the political side of things, whereas both of them are around the same age. so it's a fear

for me for both of them really but i did also notice it's a very big difference was that seemed to be a focus for biden, but nobody seemed to focus on the fact that trump really share facts. he didn't really share policies, he didn't really share much other than attacks. so you can't really judge his cognitive function other than knowing how to attack a person which is like inherence. so there's a lot of different factors that go into age, but i think biden done a better job than i expected him to roman, you're actually nodding a lot about that. >> do you agree with that notion? i do agree because going into the debate house concerned about biden's cognitive building, because i was worried as age, what are you build? >> handle it, and at the beginning of the debate, i actually thought when he first came out and start talking, i was like, oh no, i could see his page but as the debate went on, i actually thought was performed his actions on stage you have to improve to my opinion. so i actually felt more more confident does anyone

disagree with either what they said back there? i have a loved one and cognitive decline and nobody can tell me that biden is not in magnitude decline. i mean, it's pretty apparent he did get better as it went on. i think but still, i mean, 23 years from now. it's only gonna get worse. >> let me turn for a second to the issue of january text. the last time these two gentlemen debated january 6, 2021 had not occurred. the notion of democracy and peril was not a part of the debate. now, it is become front and center prefer a variety of reasons. one of the things that they former president spoke about and he said, and i watched the reaction. he said i did nothing wrong and there was kind of a visceral reaction that some of you had on that moment? time. but there was also an equal reaction that many of you had when the former president trump suggested that it was only because he's a political opponent of president biden, that he has even been prosecuted in a number for of matters. but a show of hands who thinks that the justice system or the prosecutions were

weaponized because of political reasons. but he's ran okay. >> i think the timing is suspicious you know, we're now that the polls are showing that trump's leading we're going to arrest him throw him in jail. this is not russia. this is not north korea. they do that stuff, not in america deb charges should have been brought prior to this election years ago but they decided to do it right now i don't appreciate that i feel like the department of justice is was used for political gain and mr. biden's part who agrees with that? who agrees with that statement? here for those of. you who disagree. why yes. good well, in this case, we're talking about the 34 felonies being state charges. >> so that's not doj, but i am

pretty confident that if he had made any attempt whatsoever to plea bargain, even no contest, that he would not be facing 34 felonies facing a single count where he would be either on probation or definitely no jail time. but he's an thinking is a process a hallway and he should expect jail time now especial. thanks. so those voters in warren, michigan and mecole county for taking the time to speak with me. and of course, thank you. to a calm community college for hosting us as well. a hugely consequential supreme court ruling is coming down monday. i'm talking about the question to trump immunity. and we'll discuss what's at stake, as well as another scotus ruling that could impact trump's federal election subversion case that's next block the

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be you i word box on capitol hill. and this in just three days, the supreme court will make a ruling that found and could fundamentally reshaped the office the presidency, and it will have huge implications for 2024 race and don't trump's legal fate. monday is when the court will rule and tell us finely on whether trump will be immune from criminal prosecution of the foundation decisions for the supreme court. this term and just say that same court ruled to the justice department overstepped in charging january 6 rioters with obstruction, and that could impact the prosecution's of dozens of people who stormed that capital and trump. he is seizing on the moment they have been treated so badly so we're asking based on the decision, they should immediately be released immediately. the j6 now important to note, trump himself is facing two

obstruction charge is based on the statute that's at the issue in this ruling it's still unclear how it will affect him in that instance. sources telling cnn his legal team has already thinking about filing motions to get those charges dismissed, dragged me nap oh, my fellow prosecutor, gene rossi and former january 6 investigated council i guess childress, glad to have you both here. gene, let me go hear. you. represented an oath keeper, william isaacs. he actually was one of the january 6 defendants who was convicted of obstruction of an official proceeding. what happens now in a case like that? >> well, william is very lucky. he wanted a first i was keepers into the u.s. capitol his conduct does not fall within the exception that they carved out when he went into the capitol, he wasn't trying to get documents or obstruct the access to the documents. and he wasn't part of a conspiracy to submit false claims. so he will not be prosecuted. good news for him as he got five years of probation. so even if you get rid of that 15, 12 c1 count or

c2 count, he still pro probably would get probation. what about trump? he's got those two charges. his counsel is going to try to get those dismiss jack smith may or may not be amenable what's going to happen. and we know that for president trump files appeals for anything. i don't think this is gonna be very strong. i mean, if there is an argument that someone's conduct falls between 15, 12, c2 is what former president trump was doing with another fake electors or even like certain documents that were submitted to the capital to try to stop the certification of that day. so i actually think that his conduct false most squarely within 15, 12 c2 then on earth, keeper per say. so i think he's buying another uphill battle while trying to kick those charges out. >> and then numbers you're referencing the supreme court has an exception saying that it's it can be applied in certain contexts. it's not totally overbroad and overuse in certain ways. and jack smith likely thought this is the area in which i can still maintain my case. i'm talking about immunity though because marcus, this sets the stage for this ruling that is going to finally happen on monday. they obviously have already made

their decision. they're not waiting to figure it out til the weekend. what are you looking for? are you thinking they're going to really preserve or have some attitude of blanket immunity for president. >> i do not expect that there'll be absolute immunity for president. i just don't see the supreme court doing that reading today's opinion, i'm curious. there was a lot of reading into congressional intent all right. what it congress mean when 15, 12, c2 would you just talked about was passed after enron. i'm curious if they have that as a kid with the same energy with the immunity, we left the monarchy and when our country was established, it was so that we could hold everyone accountable. a nation of laws of every one will they consider our name? since founding, what we were escaping when we formed our country, when holding the opinion on monday. and if they do that, then you have to have some type of liability for presidents when they commit crimes. and so i'll be curious to see if they look at the historical context of that deal with the congressional intent here today but i'm not that hopeful to be completely candid. >> i mean, if you don't if you say that a president is above

the law for whatever they are doing at any given point in time. and they have to wait. like he said in the argument at some point for the defense counsel until there were some impeachment and removal or otherwise, and they are conviction. even bring charges. you do undermine the checks and balances system of this country more broadly, but let me ask you about the timing. i mean, this technically is the 11th hour of cnn. good. 11th hour. but the alleged that is this 11th power, like for the supreme court, last possible moment, the last possible day, why what's the logic okay. >> by cynical side says that they want to delay delay, delay. they wait till july 1 issued its opinion. if he says you're not monday, of course, it will be. there's no trial this year it's impossible, but what this opinion is going to do is just gonna be three buckets. there's personal conduct, campaign conduct, and official acts. they are going to draw guard guard rails for each one and there will not be any blanket immunity, but there

will be a definition of campaign versus official acts. and the whole concept of that, you can order team 60 navy team six, kill people. that's going to be thrown out the window i don't think that the supreme court is going to want to enumerate a list of official acts to your larger point and try to dictate everything. >> but we'll see also happening a monday though. see vaknin reports to prison a lot coming up on monday, gene and marcus. thank you both so much thank you all for watching ac30 60 is mixed i consumer cellular, we pride ourselves on giving you fast, reliable, nationwide coverage some to half the cost. >> the leading carriers, but don't worry, we've got more than that going for us. >> new customers who buy any phone get two months of service. free when you sign up by july 31st, color go online to switched the future is not just going to happen you have to make it. and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea. and now

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to three-to-one, three-to-one today. >> i'm melissa bell in paris. and this is cnn closed captioning brought to you by meso book.com if you or a loved one, half mesothelial, will send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to 14000 tonight on 360 the day after the debate disaster, very different. >> joe biden shows up on the campaign trail israel has democrats agonize over his debate performance. and then your times editorial board says biden should drop out. also, it's tonight what voters in the host state and swing-state georgia took from the