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today on donald trump's claim of absolute presidential immunity. the caribbean bracing for hurricane beryl. now a potentially deadly category three storm and how does this happen? a space rocket crashing into the mountains after it was launched by accidents? all right. 6:00 a.m. here in washington, a live look at the white house and a new phase of the campaign to win the right to live their good morning, everyone. i'm kasie hunt. it's wonderful to have you with us on this monday morning. keep fighting. that's the advice for president biden. that's coming from his family after a weekend of reflection camp, david, according to one presidential adviser, support from the first lady. and other family members is quote, unequivocal privately, the families blaming the president's debate team for his disastrous performance thursday night. and they're apparently could be firings still many

allies and party insiders want biden to bow out well, they won't say it will put their name to it. there is one democrat who knows what the president is going through. he says, there's no time to hit the panic button biden, is one and trump is still zero. and he's the only person that's ever beaten trump. and i really believed that joe biden will do that again, despite all of the democrats wedding, the bint over that kind of thing. >> the trump campaign, of course, riding a wave of post-debate momentum, senator jd vance, who is in the running to be trump's vice president, insisting that republicans just don't care who trump faces in november i actually don't care if joe biden is the democratic nominee because donald trump is the republican nominee. and the contrast between republican policies under donald trump and whoever the democrats ultimately end up with is very powerful our panels here, molly

ball, senior political correspondent at the wall street journal, former federal prosecutor, elliot williams. meghan, hey, is a former special assistant to president biden and matt gorman, foreigners, former senior adviser to tim scott's presidential campaign. welcome. all. molly ball, i actually want to start with you because i want to try to capture the big picture of where where we stand right now. and you write this in the wall street journal, the fallout from last week's presidential debate has thrust the democratic party into a spiraling crisis. yet many in the party view, the current reckoning as sadly inevitable. the product of years of defensive refusal by the president and his protective inner circle to acknowledge the decline in biden's public presentation that has long been obvious to voters. and you quote a democratic operative who says the shocking thing is that people engaged in this deception or delusion or both. for so long, what else are you hearing about how this is playing out here? because i do think that you capture here

what everyone feels, which is we knew that his age was an issue. but to actually see it this way when so many people will deny, deny, deny to you that this is happening at all it feels like whiplash. yeah. well, the word that i kept hearing from so many people who are involved in the highest levels live democratic politics was gaslighting. there was a feeling like people are tired of being gas lit and told that they cannot believe what they see with their own eyes and ears. and it was so readily apparent on that debate stage that it can't be denied anymore and now has been forced in the out into the open and has to be dealt with i don't think anybody is surprised that the first move is to circle the wagons and try to fight it out. the question is, does that prove sustainable? can they sustain that position or are too many people now in their own party going to say, no, i'm sorry, i can't keep doing this. i can't keep saying this. we need to make a change and that is the phase we're going through right now. is there going to see if they can pull this off or if the world of

democratic politics is sort of going to collectively say this isn't cutting it. >> yes, so megan haze. you have the unfortunate reality of joining us as a biden insider on this monday after the thursday night performance, and we're just going to put up a couple of things that clearly there are no elected officials out there yet, democrats elected democrats out there saying that he should bow out of the race. i think my mic, our colleague here at cnn public gala's said that the first democratic politician to do that would basically be shot. it would be political suicide. but here was the new york times editorial board said saying to serve his country president biden should leave the race. james carville says, behind the curtain, the biden oligarchy. will decide the fate. we press cardinal on whether he thinks biden will be off the ticket. he said he thinks so. and he invoked a famous quote by the late economist herb simon with card, which cargo paraphrased as that which can't continue, won't there was more endowed who said very simply, he's being

selfish. he's putting himself ahead of this country. he's surrounded by opportunistic enablers me has created a reality distortion field where we're told not to believe what we have plainly seen. >> thank you for having me today is really going to opportunism was the last word i look, the president is extremely resilient he this is not the first time that he's been in a situation where everyone is counted him out. >> we were been a theme spot in 20 during the primaries. i mean, he got fifth and iowa like this is not unusual for him. so look, i got to be candid with you. i actually interviewed him in south carolina right after he came off the harb bold new hampshire loss, right? he pulled up stakes. he sat down with me. we talked for i think nearly 20 minutes on live tv. the guy that i talked to you that that he's not the same guy that was on the debate stage and he's not the person who's on the debate stage is not the same person who showed up in north carolina the next day. so what happened on the debate stage? i don't know. i wasn't there he just needs to spend the next 2,120 something days proving that that was the anomaly and

that north carolina and the person you talk to is not i mean, he is in an uphill battle without question. i just don't think that people should be so quick to count him out. i just he's a very resilient person. he's any lot for this country and how they vision for the next four years. so it's i totally understand. it's totally fair to have these conversations. i just think that people should not count the president out. this is not the first time i'll count out point. totally fair point. it's a long campaign and so on. i think the challenge here is that what we saw in the debate stage confirmed that which people are already concerned about the present. it's as if if the george w bush and o for literally had pulled out a ban on stage, started smoking. the fact is people thought bush was a frat boy, goofing around and had to overcome that perception, whether any of us like it or not, sorry i can now, do whatever. >> but the point is whether we like it or not, we all all have public perceptions that might not, might or might not track with reality and the burden

that joe biden cabbage at the public thinks he's even if he's running against a guy who's 78-years-old, people think joe biden's old and any performance that affirms that was gonna be hard to open. >> but he is old. i know one's disputing that and i just think that the voters will decide right? so the voters are going to decide what whether or not they think he can do the job or not sitting here talking about it, doesn't really make a difference. so it's the voters in wisconsin and michigan and arizona. and those are the people he needs to go talk to and he needs to prove to them that he then that he could do the job and the voters in a way, we're ahead of the curve on this. i mean, i think the voters, you look at the poles instinctively setting up something's not right here. you whether it's the media writ large and the pundits, elites, somebody's not playing totally straight with us on this. i mean, we sat here about a month ago when the wall street journal published at long story detailing a lot of what we saw. the other night and democrats acted writ large, like it was written cran like it was totally made up and it was really what we saw was confirmed we now can it's hard to hide behind that and so the idea that it's so you know, it's too late now, or we

should have had this conversation a year ago. no whole point was democrats as a party wouldn't have this conversation a year ago, two years ago, three years ago. that's how we got here. >> now, the person winning and all of us is donald trump, who stood on a stage and put it out, patent falsehoods after false, false it after falsehood for an hour-and-a-half. that's sorted now some of that is on president biden. there's a guy there who could time, but this is a fact as trump's getting a bit of a free pass and all this, we've got to bring this to a close, but megan, the one thing i keep coming back to is that the president has focused just on and said repeatedly that donald trump is a fundamental threat, not just to our country, right in this moment, but to our democracy in the long term is there anything if it becomes clear to him that he just cannot be donald trump, that would cause him to reevaluate i don't believe the president's heart, he would be running as he did not think he could be donald trump. i don't think that has changed in his heart. he is a very i mean, he

as you know, in 20 when he entered the race, this was very important to him and he is he's a person who stands on principles and morals if it was not in his heart that he could be donald trump, he would not be in this race up next here we have this other major, major story today, ruling from the supreme court on presidential immunity, steck to come down at 10:00 a.m. plus senator chris coons joins us to talk about president biden's state of mind and his decision to stay in the race plus devastating flooding in the southwest. this was one of five things you have to see this morning july 4th cnn concert event with performance by keith urban, ashanti, maybe wrexham, the killer many more for america thursday, july 4 at seven eastern on cnn feeling from a backed up god mere lax whips naturally with the water in your body to help you go for your gut and your mood will

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followed, cnn all right, just a few hours from now, the supreme court's set to hand down their final opinions of this term, which means that they will have to finally resolve the question of whether former president trump can claim immunity and his federal election subversion case, which of course touches on his actions before and during the january 6 attack on the capitol trump's main argument is that he cannot be held criminally responsible for anything that he did while he was in office because they were official acts as president elliot williams, let's walk through what the options mean. maybe when this opinion comes down, what are we all going to be scrambling to read in this opinion as those interns run it out to, as they run it out. so i think based on how oral argument met, it seems that there's a majority on the supreme court that wants to fight that some acts of the president are immune from prosecution. that's probably acts that were committed or done in the presence official capacity sending troops for

instance, into battle there's another sphere, i think of conduct that will be seen as not immune from prosecution. things carried out in the president's personal capacity. now, the court could have decided and they can decide. we think these are official these other acts are not official. so it appears that they're not going to do that. it appeared it appear and this is all based on what i've majority of the justices were saying at oral argument that they're going to send it back to the trial court to have hearings to figure out which acts fall into each bucket and to the bottom line for that bottom line, is that it will delay any trial for trump in the january 6 situation until after the election. it will delay any trial after the january 6 election. now, something we've talked about on this program is the, the legal system exists outside of the political calendar and it takes a long time to have hearings now, many voters see it as important to have a decision on this prior to election day, but that's simply not what the supreme court i think cares about up for better or for worse, it's a choice voice that they're making. they are choosing to

take as long as they as they are in the kick it down and so on. however, it's not their obligation to rule in anything prior to a political deadline. yeah. i mean, but do you think americans view that as like as they viewed as plausible, that the supreme court is above no they do not in any way, regardless, plausible supreme court is above politics and considering the supreme court has an approval rating now that rivals roughly what congress is, is it's pretty low people don't have a high opinion of this record. people see this summer in court as unethical, not policing themselves in an effective way not burdened by politics and so on. of course, the public holds us record accountable for questions like this. and like i said, it is still a political choice to rule in the manner that they're doing now, they can wash their hands a little bit and say that, well, no, we're not stepping in an election, we're not putting a thumb on the scale, but in effect they are and that's where we are in court today yeah. >> that's where we are. all right. stick with cnn. are special coverage begins at

10:00 a.m. easterns can be anchored by jake tapper, anderson cooper, and kaitlan collins don't miss it. i'll be joining as well. all right. coming up next. an update on hurricane beryl as it takes aim at the caribbean this morning. and a scary scene and texas that's an 18 wheeler drove right into somebody's living room we don't four is in america thursday, july 4th, they 70s do you have subscriptions that are forgotten or even hit him see and cancel them all in one place with experience now the app and see how much you could save this is the most exciting moment in painting when the front tape comes off when all the swatches samples press and pride depend upon frond tapes

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blocking a highway and clashing with police to protest israel's new mandatory military service ruling because real supreme court recently ordered the government to begin drafting ultra-orthodox jewish men into the israeli army in south texas. the driver of an 18 wheeler is dead after his truck veered off the road and into a home. the home is for sale. no one is currently living there the drivers cause of death has not been released residents of new mexico waking up to more extreme flooding this morning, water levels reaching up to six feet high in some city streets. the state's national guard has been called into help after rescuers were unable to reach some of the victims i take a look at this, a very patient sheriff's deputy in eastern oregon waiting for a group of babies, gunk siblings, to cross the road in a post on facebook, the baker county sheriff's office says the deputy gave the hardworking mama plenty of space smart

while she was trying to wrangle per babies. that's actually extremely adorable okay. this morning, the caribbean bracing for hurricane beryl, it is now a category three storm, the national hurricane center says the storm weakened overnight, but still warns of potentially catastrophic wind damage as beryl heads across the windward islands later this morning are meteorologists, elisa rafah tracking all of it for us this morning. >> elisa, good morning good morning. >> yeah, it's a category three hurricane, right now, but it's only come down just a little bit and that center intensity, because we are resetting and changing the structure of the hurricane a little bit. that also means that the wind field has gotten fatter so more of these islands could see these hurricane-force and tropical storm force winds. and we do expect that intensity to come back up a little bit more. so here's a look at it and you can see what i'm talking about with the eyewall kind of resetting itself a little bit, getting a little bit more clouded, but we've got some of the outer bands are ready coming into some of these ireland lins like betas and

granada category three hurricane. but 120 mile per hour winds is sitting eastern southeast their of granada seeing some of these showers starting to get into some of these outer bands, lashing as we look towards barbados radar here winds have already gas it up to 60 miles per hour in barbados, 43 miles per hour, sustained winds right now, the core of that, i will could create even storm surge up to six to nine feet. rain totals are looking at some three to six inches of rain that could cause some problems on these islands. there it goes with the intensity coming back up to a category four and then it continues to scrape a lot of these islands here in the caribbean sea eventually making it to mexico later this week, keys are readily seraph of for us with that updated lisa, thank you very much. coming up next, a candidate arrested for allegedly using a tarantula as a weapon while that's fine. plus dana bash is here to talk about the dilemma facing democrats after president biden's debate, disaster let

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beyond, follows cnn i'm for biden-harris in this campaign, the president is that a really good job and he deserves a second term. >> i'm with joe biden. joe biden's decision to go forward is a decision that we will all embrace. >> i am all in supporting president biden. >> i'm not so cynical as to believe that the american people are going to choose a president based on a 90 minute debate. >> top democrats sticking by president biden this weekend, despite that dismal debate performance that unleashed a wave of panic throughout the party with nearly half of democratic voters now saying that president biden should step aside and let someone else replace him at the top of the democratic ticket. party leaders, though, rejecting that possibility is there even a mechanism that you think would work if president biden did decide to step aside the campaign says that it would cause weeks of chaos and

internal food fighting well, again, there's nothing as well as just as joe biden getting up and taking the ball over the finish line as something else could be chaotic, the question is joe biden's decision to go forward is a decision that we will all embrace because of the record he has and the performance that will come with it and joining our panel now is cnn's chief political correspondent, the co-host of cnn's state of the union, and the host of inside politics, also the moderator of thursday's debate, dana bash. dana, good morning. thank you so much for being here so you had also on your program, the person who is possibly the one man who good call joe biden and say, hey, you need to step down out of this, and that is jim clyburn, who also saved his initial bid in 2020 when he when biden went down to south carolina, let's watch a little bit of what claiborne had to say to you also take into

account the record? yes. it was a bad performance. i've been around these things. i've been a part of debate preparation before, and i know what when i see what i call a preparation overload and that's exactly what was going on the other night. >> so he's essentially saying that the prep was was bad for the president. what have you been hearing as this story has rolled on, there doesn't seem to yet your final answer, although the families certainly have circle the wagons, that's key what we just heard from nancy pelosi, from congressman claiborne, from all of the other democrats that you have been showing that is the epitome of circling the wagons. and that matters because the initial reaction was obviously shock. but also the sort of stack of newspaper editorials in important news papers. for joe biden, shape dealer, the

new york times in the swing state of georgia, the atlanta, georgia constitution. but we all know, you know, megan better than all of us. it's the family that matters the most to him. and because it is about the country, it is about they argued democracy. but it's also about their father, their grandfather. they're husband, their brother. and that was i mean, can you imagine watching that moment as that person being your family member? so that is one of the many reasons why this meeting with the family, even though it was preplanned at photoshoot with any liebowitz, which is a bit of an odd choice. well, there were doing ulez was planned well playing well before and she was doing portraits because they just real quick. my understanding is that they had planned to do it this past weekend because everybody is in town for 4 july that's the explanation. but obviously they talked about it and they said we're with you yeah meghan, take us inside the family

thinking here, i mean, i realized like if joe biden had every time he had a bad time of it, if he had stepped off the stage like he would have been gone in 1988, right when he was first running for president, and that didn't go so well for him. but is there a point where this shifts for them and if so, what is it look, i think what the family they decided to run as a family and 20 they had a family meeting as they talked about after i think george bush's funeral, they've talked about that publicly, that that's when they decided to run. >> this is always going to be part of their family. this he is the he had of their family and he relied deeply on their support. i don't think it's going to shift unless joe biden doesn't think he can beat donald trump. i don't think that that will ever come today, and he will let it does voters aside. he felt that way in 20 and he will feel that way, but it's time. i just i don't see a world in which she does not want to take this to the voters sit aside. can i just add two things that i'm hearing and what we saw over the weekend with the interviews that i did and others are a critical part

of this. the things that they're watching right now, like hawks are donors to see if the money dries up so far, they claim it hasn't. we'll see but maybe most importantly, real poles that come out after the voters have had a chance to consume and to digest what they saw. if it looks like the bottom fell out or even close to that, there will be different conversations and that was told to me by people very close to this process. they admitted it, which is why you saw an effort a war room, like i have never seen in biden land. i don't know about you. i have never seen it the way that they kicked into high gear afterwards to try to stop the bleeding along those lines. this might be the first presidential election. i certainly am history where both candidates this far out have such universal name recognition. so the idea that someone's getting a big bumper, big fall, even from a

disastrous debate before, who knows, if people think biden hemorrhages support from that? >> well, i mean, i think that that underscore your point underscores that if there we're a huge shift in the polls would be that lies work. yeah is significant. i mean matt gorman, let me let me just bring you in here because we can also put up look, if president, but we've been talking a lot about biden what he's gonna do. were he to step aside democrats would have to find somebody else, right? that is not i mean, i can say that sentence in three seconds or less. that would be an incredibly messy process and we can put up there has been head-to-head pulling biden versus trump harris versus trump buttigieg. you can see going on down like biden versus trump is at the top of the list. now of course, we can argue many of these people do not have nearly the name recognition of a president biden, but this is what helps and you can see the center that's kind of the undecided or the don't know is right there. they get bigger as that as that chart goes on down for

republicans when we saw jd vance came out and said, oh, i don't care, we don't care who they run against how do house republican world looking at what biden might do here? >> points to this the whole reason we have the june debate, why this whole thing started was in many ways, i think the biden campaign felt they were a little bit like on a glide path to being kinda down. but three points they need someone to shake up the race so even just maintaining the status quo in many respects wasn't the whole part point in the strategy in the first place. to be asked a month ago, they needed to shake this up, not just maintain the secondly, i think it's also the tough part is just stay the obvious. there's no reasonable way you can bypass kamala harris, who is already in the ticket, who has the legal right to the money raised by joe biden. and also, i mean, let's face it in democratic politics, you cannot bypass the first african-american woman to be elected vice president simply no way can you i'm sorry. can you just put that back up? i'm sorry. >> but the graphic producers show by fine.

>> one of the things that we have to not overlook here. biden campaign shares polling data on other democrats i'm, imagine this is part of their business, but it is true that was part of their strategy. it was the bike. can you imagine a world in which the political operation is so scrambling so much, i would even say desperate to stop everybody from freaking out that you're putting out internal polling on other people to show oh yeah. you think it's bad with our guy? look, what it's going to be, what the vice president vice president mean, the list of all of these other democrats, which they had in their back pocket. >> amazing. now, matt along the lines of your point, i'm curious as two of that list of people including joe biden, who's scares republicans, spike cool. anybody? i do any of them, are they afraid of jb pritzker or gavin newsom or remember, i'll tell you why you can throw that one more time i'll tell you why harris

i'm the district count. most of them because they're all hovered on 43, 44% in my mind that as you are a generic debt, well, nobody knows some of the living name id isn't high, right? people aren't being a leader that jb pritzker versus josh shapiro, they're really wearing this. you are a generic democrat and that's how people respond to the polls. harris is different, right? there's a whole host of issues there yeah dana bash, i mean, what is your understanding and reporting around the common law question because this is a big part from my understanding, it is a big part of how the president's team is thinking about it. >> it's not as though i don't think there's a high level of confidence that kamala harris would have a better shot to beat trump than joe biden does. and i think that that's kind of baked in here, right? i mean, well, first question about whether she would be on the ticket all i have been told from senior biden people is there is no world in which this party will do anything other if joe biden does decide to step aside, which it looks very

unlikely. but if he did but there's no world in which she would not be on the top of the ticket. it would have to be decided by delegates. it's not this is not a coronation that's not how it works anymore but it's hard to imagine that that wouldn't happen. first of all, because of the obvious and people think that she's she's earned it and that she is the person who needs to be in that spot, but also mechanically she is on the ticket. so the money is already attached to her. can they get around that? if they need to? probably there are ways to get around sort of a lot of things. but but that is really the most important thing to think about. all right? one thing i do want to note, we're just getting in apparently the first comments from the first lady, jill biden in an interview with vogue magazine. and she says quote, the family will not let these 90 minutes to find the four years he has been president and they say, quote, we will

continue to fight. she said that the president quote, will always do what's best for the country we're going to keep digging into what else she had to say they're and bring it to you right after this break. and of course, you can watch more of these interviews there's with lawmakers on state of the union every sunday at 9:00 a.m. eastern right here on cnn, dana, thank you so much for being here this morning and congratulations on the debate. thank you. thanks. bye. coming up next. boeing close to a deal with the doj to plead guilty to criminal charges that will bring you that as part of the morning roundup plus the co-chair of the biden campaign, senator chris coons joins us live i've to talk about the president's decision and insistence on remaining in the race this summer. snacking just got serious introducing new $3 footlong divers world might not be ready for them, but at $3 a pop your wallet definitely is

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two years ago the supreme court rejecting a last-minute effort by bannon to avoid his four-month sentence the justice department nearing an agreement with boeing that includes a corporate monitor and a fine in exchange for a guilty plea to criminal charges. a lawyer representing victims, families from two fatal 737 max crashes is calling it a sweetheart deal starting today, some bars in california must provide roofies, testing kits. governor gavin newsom signed a bill into law last year requiring bars and nightclubs that serve alcohol only and no food good to offer. the drug testing kits a candidate for the hennepin county board in minnesota admitting that scene from the movie home alone, day for the idea to buy a tarantula and allegedly throw it at a tenant who refused to leave her home

versa seminary was arrested and charged with assault just because they put it in the movies. kids doesn't mean you should do it at home all right. >> let's turn back now to this joe. >> he famously loves trains, but apparently not of thought all night confused in the halting and trailing off, i've seen beauty pageant contestants entered questions better. democrats have some hard conversations. they'd have to have joe biden, noble guy what did a great thing when he got elected president did very well for three years, but now there is no toothpaste left in that tube we either walk around with bad breath or green teeth or walk into a cvs and sharp lift a new tube okay. >> after president biden's debate performance on thursday, democrats have spent the last several days in panic mode. and while many of the party's leaders have come to the president's defense. some are saying that they're having

conversations about biden's candidacy there are very honest and serious and rigorous conversations taking place at every level of our party are joining me now, is delaware is democratic senator chris coons. >> he's a national co-chair for president biden's 2024 campaign and has of course, been close to the president for many years, senator, thanks very much for being here always good to be on with you. happy monday morning happy monday indeed, we just just in here, sir, is a new interview that the first lady, jill biden, did for the cover of vogue magazine. >> and she says that her husband quote, will always do what's best for the country senator, my question to you is, you, many democrats, certainly the president, have painted donald trump's candidacy and potential second term as an existential threat. to the very foundations of our democracy if

it becomes clear that president biden cannot beat donald trump after that performance, do you think he should step aside? >> okay. so that's not where we are all the evidence we've seen after the very difficult debate performance on thursday night is that the polls haven't moved. a few have moved in biden's favor. we've had record grassroots fundraising and a record number of folks applied to work on the campaign. i spent the whole weekend campaigning across pennsylvania and was very encouraged by what i heard from grassroots volunteers there i also, as you can imagine, took a whole lot of phone calls from donors and supporters from many journalists and from other colleagues, senators, governors, others. there's a lot of conversation, but i do think it's important to reflect on house strong and how capable of president joe biden has been. and what a shocking and clear threat to democracy donald trump presented on that

debate stage in atlanta if there's an editorial board out there, and i'm looking at you, new york times. and you watch that performance and you're going to spend all your time focused on why you're convinced that having joe biden step aside is the best path forward for the american people. and very little time on the performance of donald trump, a man who has been convicted of 34 felonies of sexual assault, held liable for commercial fraud and faces dozens more the charges. and who lied and lied and lied on that stage if that's not alarming and concerning to you, then i'd like you to refocus your lins because what i've heard from all the other elected officials, i've talked to is they have confidence in joe biden. they think he's our strongest candidate and i'm looking forward to campania hard for him from now through november sir, you mentioned the editorial board. there also is this column for maureen dowd, who covered president biden as when she was a young reporter,

he was in the senate. she was she covered his 1988 campaign at she opened her column this way, quote, he's being selfish, she's putting them self ahead of the country. he's surrounded by opportunistic enablers. he has created a reality distortion field where we're told not to believe what we have plainly seen. his hubris is infuriating. he says he's doing this for us, but he's really doing it for himself. and i mean, look, the piece of this that i want to zero in on here is that we're told not to believe what we have plainly seen. i think for a lot of voters certainly the way that the white house talks to reporters in washington, i think there's a little bit of this, but for voters who saw that on stage and are told, hey, this guy actually has it altogether what do you say to people who feel like they are being gas lit or somehow lied to or told that what they seem to see, what their own eyes isn't actually the case so here's what we're seeing on the screen that you're showing right now, a president who is

frankly thunderstruck by just how aggressively donald trump is lying about everything from january 6 to when there's a record deficit. it was under trump, not under biden to the impact of his from the moment he walked out on hands before anything ever came out, i and mouth. thank see if i could finish my sentence, then i'll let you ask the next question and where the next day at a campaign rally in north carolina, he gave a forceful and engaging in sharp speech i think everyone's entitled to have a bad night and i prefer to maureen dowd column if we're going to compare columns in different newspapers, ej dion's column where he basically said, what is it we saw on that stage a bad night or a sign of a bad future. >> i think that president biden needs to reassure those who were paying attention by giving more and more of the sorts of interviews and impromptu events and engagements that put him in

america's living room in the first place i've known joe biden 30 years. nobody does better than joe at working a fire station, a union hall, a coffee shop he was at a waffle house later that night in atlanta he worked crowd at the rally event. he's had several events in new york in the last few days. i agree with ej dionne that we need to remind the american people of who joe biden is. a strong and capable president with an incredible record and a good heart who can tell the truth and get the job done in sharp contrast best to who donald trump is, a man who on that stage just viewed chaos, anger, vengeance, and lies, which reflects how he led as president. i'll remind you, casey donald trump's own vice president, chief of staff secretary of defense, national security adviser all won't support him and say he shouldn't be led back into the white house. i hope we spend as

much time focusing on that as the parlor game of will he or won't he in the days to come? >> sir, do you think that the people around president biden let him down by not putting him out there more ahead of this so that maybe this wouldn't feel like such a shock look, i've been encouraging more unscheduled, casual engagements with folks and we've seen more of that in the last couple of weeks. i do think that part of the challenge of being president, and this is true for many president's, is that the demands of the job mean you're often in small group settings very few of us got to see him in the room at the g7, for example, just last week with world leaders. but i spoke to our ambassador to italy, a dear friend of mine, the former governor of delaware, who was in the room with him. and i said, did you see anything like that alleged moment of mental loss of acuity? he said no, he was sharpie was engaged, he was commanding. we don't often see

him in that setting. what we may see and you showed it is a compelling speech on the beach in normandy, or that engaging beach in north carolina? but i'll i'll share with you that criticism some have raised with me when i make that point, he's got a teleprompter. he's well-prepared. we do need to see more unscripted and off the record moments. that is something i'm encouraging, yes do you think that he should do another debate with donald trump? >> i do. if he's confident in his preparation, in his team, i think he should because he needs to erase some of the negatives of the campaign debate that just happened and build on his accomplishments. look, i think it's hard to stand on a debate stage with a guy who's just on loading a torrent since and unprecedented even for donald trump, barrage of lies. and be the only person up there fact checking him and he needed to be better prepared for how to handle that and to forcefully assert his own

record. and his vision for his second term. there's lots more good work to do. but for younger americans and i was speaking with some college students over the weekend. the contrast is sharp between joe biden, who's done more to combat climate change than any american president moore to make our country more inclusive. and just than any american president moore to create opportunity in high-skilled, high wage manufacturing jobs and the jobs of the future and donald trump's record and values and priorities all stand in sharp contrast to that. so i think the more he has casual and regular engagements with voters of all ages and backgrounds, the more likely we are to be happy with the outcome in november is democrats. >> all right, senator chris coons of delaware. very much. appreciate you coming on. i realize it's a tough day to be out there with us, but your real good sport. and i appreciate your time. are there are panel is back. elliot williams, your thoughts on this

with what was really interesting was when he said the president didn't look confused, he was just thunderstruck by the lies that donald trump was making. and your point and responses. let's tell the president's or looked from the moment he walked out there on stage and like you said, this is a very tough day to be a surrogate for the president and the simple factors they are coming up with virtually three excuse in many respects for performance that was by any historical standard, disastrous for a candidate. >> well, and it's also the case that this idea that they should put the president out there more so that he can prove to the american people that he has what it takes. i've heard that over and over and over again for literally years from people close to the white house. and i think having seen the debate, people have a pretty good idea why that hasn't happened. because he has good moments and bad moments, good days and bad days. and you don't know which joe biden is going to come out in any particular circumstance. so they can't necessarily don't necessarily feel safe putting him out there on a more

rigorous basis than they already do. and that's just going to compound the difference. >> why did they feel safe putting them out? i mean, this was the biden campaign's idea. this debate. >> look, i think they are usa joe biden showing up for four-game de like he always shows up. he showed up for the theta union. he showed up. so i just think that they were prepared for that. joe biden to show up that day and it's clear to everyone that he did not have a good performance. but again, he came back in north carolina and had a great performance. i just don't think we need we can lose sight of the contrast that he is going to show to donald trump, but to all have everyone's point, he needs to get out there and show the voters what he is gonna do for the next four years. and that he can do the job. it's not even about its vision, it's that he able to do the job not until proper speakers during the day they need more of that, but i'll say, here's the risk, right? in theory, you want a new visual. they should have had him out and more thank you. the next morning, but if he shows something during the debate is over. there that's an entire risk and they bring him out again in an unscheduled way. news conference interview. and it looks more like the debate than it did north carolina. that's a whole other set of issues and what and we