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going on right now. >> so what are you waiting for five good things. >> listen wherever you get your podcasts closed, captioning brought to you by meso book.com our firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma call us now tonight on 360 when joined by the first democratic congress number to call from president biden's departure from the race as new reporting by the new york times suggests the president's mental lapses are growing, quote, more fruit and more pronounced and more worrisome. >> also tonight with trump amplifying calls for retribution, even televised treason trials against opponents of the supreme court court's landmark ruling makes using the presidency for vengeance that much easier and more fallout from that ruling. his new york sentencing set for next week, just slip to september good evening. thanks for joining u.s. president biden has just waiting again on his debate, disaster thursday

nights, speaking at a fundraiser tonight, reporters in the room quote, the president is saying, i decided to travel around the world a couple of times shortly before the debate. i didn't listen to my staff and then i almost fell asleep on stage reporters in the rooms that he seemed to be joking when he said the part about almost falling asleep on stage. but regarding his travel, factually speaking, the president got back from his last trip abroad june 15 the debate was 12 days later in any case, his explanation comes at the end of the day in which the first cracks opened up, what was a fairly solid wall of democratic support? court, solid until today when a democratic congressman who joins me in a moment, texas congressman lloyd doggett, became the first national democratic legislator to say the president should quoting from his statement, now, make the painful and difficult decision to withdraw. i'll ask him about that in a moment. it's noticed notable because until today, what we have heard over and over for many democrats is what happened at the debate was simply a bad night bad debates happen.

people have bad nights. i was a very bad night for the president. >> it was a challenging night, just a bad day. >> i think it was admittedly a very bad night, but it was what it was one bad night. yeah. i think it was a rough night. >> we've all had those nights all of us, not one person watching those nights, everybody has a bad night. >> and i think that was a week debate performance. >> it was a slow start. that's obvious to everyone. i'm not going to debate that point that has been almost asu things self soothing mantra for democrats since thursday. but what those two words don't offer for his any factual evidence about why it was a bad night. what actually caused it the president, dr. back in february said an extrude and i'm quoting an extremely thorough neurologic exam in quote, found nothing consistent with such disorders as stroke, multiple sclerosis, or parkinson's disease when asked today whether the president had been examined by a doctor after the debate or gotten to neurological scan. white house spokesperson karine jean-pierre's sidestepped the question and return to those

two words we've heard a lot a neurological scan look what i can say is that it just to take a step back it was a. bad night. we understand that it was a bad night and the president has spoken to this she went on to deny that the white house is hiding any information about the president's health or fitness for the job. >> it may also say something that five days into a political meltdown, the white house can't get much beyond acknowledging the obvious about thursday hey, and repeating that bad night phrase today, beyond congressman doggett, we did here others begin to ask whether it was just a bad night or something more i think it's a legitimate question to say, is this an episode or is this a condition house speaker emerita nancy pelosi asking the question and here's illinois democratic mike quigley answering it we have to be honest with ourselves that it wasn't just a horrible night

or speaker pelosi called for the president to bow out. she called it essential for him to do some tough interviews with serious journalist. and it seems he will abc's george stuff anomalous is going to have an interview with the president to air july 7, also weighing in close biden ally james clever, south carolina congressman, did not say the president should bow, but he did talk about who should get first consideration if he does if vice president harris i will support her if he were to step aside this bottas should not in any way do anything to work around. ms harris? what's hard to know for certain at this point is how deep within the party questions about the president actually run whoever new cnn reporting provides more than a hint, it comes from more than two dozen current and former democratic officials as well as donors and longtime beye now allies all want to remain unnamed to avoid alienating the president. many say they have already made up their mind saying he should bow out. some say this week. they

say they have held off going to mr. biden directly, hoping he would make the decision himself. but according to multiple democrats, we've talked to patients is wearing thin cnn's jim again, galle, who shares a by-line on the report, joins us later tonight. so we'll new york times correspondent david sanger, who by lines and disturbing new report and the times quoting from it. now in the weeks and months before president biden's politically devastating performance on the debate stage in atlanta, several current and former officials and others who encountered him behind closed doors notice that the increasingly appeared confused or listless or would lose the thread of conversations. again, david sanger and jamie can gail join us shortly? texas democrat congressman lloyd doggett joins us now, carson, i appreciate you being with us. i'm wondering, do you buy this pushback? from president biden tonight that his bad debate was because of extensive overseas travel well, it's a little difficult to believe and it seems to be the latest story, blaming the moderators, blaming

the staff, blaming the cold. >> i don't know what i do know. is that we are at serious risk of our government being taken over by a criminal and his gang, the democracy values that we cherish so much being lost to an authoritarian, strong this week we know the supreme court basically said trump's from do what he wants to we know how compliant republican congress would be. i just felt it was important to speak out in the most respectful way possible and say this is not about one night. this has been a problem for a year that are nominee has been lagging behind are strong senate candidates in half a dozen key states bates, no sign of significant improvement. and now we have the great disappointment of this debate, where the president did not look good, did not refute the many lies of president trump and did not really do a good job of promoting the many

accomplishments. so i salute president biden. i just feel that it's time for him to step aside. if we were to be able to protect what he allowed us to gain and 2020, which was a victory for democracy. but he could he delivered us from trump, then he could be delivering us to trump this year if we have more of what happened last it's thursday. >> so to your fellow democrats who are continuing to say, look this, this was one bad night. you say what will i say? that we needed a great night? we got a great disappointment instead whether there are some physical problems there. i don't know. i think rather then some test here are there. what i'd like to see is the president out actively engaging with journalists like you, answering the tough questions demonstrating that he doesn't need a teleprompter but i think the setback that is occurred will be difficult to overcome under any circumstance, we were

looking at not people like me who believed joe biden has accomplished a great deal for our country but a very small portion of the country who are undecided, who may be what are called the double haters that dont like either candidate. and i think we we'd be better off if we had a new candidate who could present a new vision for our country? and we can do that if we have an open and fair democratic process over the next few weeks, or you i mean, you in your statement, it was very respectful to the president for his accomplishments, how tough was it knowing you'd be the first sitting member of congress, just to say, he should end his campaign. i mean, that's not an easy thing. to come out and say it was very tough in retrospect, i wish i had said it earlier because i think we needed this needed to be a decision that was made much earlier in the process. >> but the debate and the ruling by the supreme court and then the input from my

neighbors here in texas was so strong for my own family that i felt that i needed to speak out and being a older member of congress, not about to start a new career and worrying about that or being a particularly vulnerable member of congress, it seemed to me that i had the ability to do that, that perhaps some of my colleagues who have exactly the same views that i might speak, even if they couldn't come in a public way. i hope some of them will be calling the white house and voicing their private concerns if they can't join me publicly and that people around the country will let their members of congress and the senate know just as my constituents have, how they feel about this because there's just too much at risk here to go with less of a strong, less than a strong candidate are you suggesting that the vice vice version harris should be the candidate? are you are you not suggesting any particular candidate and not anyone? and i'm certainly

not doing this on behalf of any candidate only because of my love of this country and my great concern about what would happen under a trump presidency and how, how very probable that could be at the moment when you look at the numbers vice president harris certainly would be in the mix, but we have a number of people that you've had on this show before. governors from several states, a number of members of the senate, perhaps some members of the cabinet and the vice president let's give them an opportunity just as soon as possible to present themselves to the country, to our convention delegates and move forward in a process that is open to all of them. that's not some backroom deal to select the candidate but helps us move forward with the kind of new alternative that so many people have been saying they want because they were unhappy with the two nominees that appeared to becoming prison biden when he when he ran, did talk about him being sort of a bridge to the future bridge, the next

generation. and yet what we are hearing is certainly everything from the white house now and in all the reporting about what the president's his family members are telling him is that he's going to stay in this is there a scenario where you actually believe he would step aside? i mean, do you think that's this is i realized to remain hopeful? yes, he did. as you note in his campaign, he emphasized that he would be a transitional or bridge figure and certainly he has had some transformational accomplishments i believe that he alike, lyndon johnson and who's the heart of whose district i continue to serve made decisions for the country. and put that ahead of themselves. we know donald trump would never do that. he solely about himself, but i remain hopeful that despite all the input from his own staff and perhaps for some family members, that hill look at these there's numbers and realize that this is a hill just too high for him to climb. and call on someone else. i

think he would find a tremendous reaction from so many of us that care about what he's accomplished and know he shares are objective of trying to protect democracy and our values and his stepping aside is probably the best way to accomplish that. >> congressman cleaver and we heard would play that sound bite earlier where he was talking about if the president did step aside, that that he would support the vice president, harris bacardi sellers was on the other day saying that all the money that has been raised under fec rules, would could only go to biden or harris if that was the case? would you support the vice president? >> well i've talked with jim. i did as i did so many of our leadership and colleagues last friday immediately after the debate to voice my concern about the need for a change, not surprised he'd support the vice president. she's very able. she should be in the mix know i don't think she has a

total claim on the funds. it would it's a little more complex than i think the initial report that came out i guess all the lawyers would be looking at it. but only if she's are nominee, would i see her being able to take all the funds? and certainly, i think there would be an uproar about that if if there were feeling that she was being given an unfair advantage, even as talented as she is kind of small doggett, i appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. anderson. want to get perspection now from democratic strategists, maria cardona, also former trump white house communications director anthony scaramucci co-host of the rest is politics us podcast. maria, i know you want prison beye, and to stay in the race and morning what you make of what congressman doggett had to say look, he has a right to his opinion, and there are others who might feel the same and the campaign and people at the white house should absolutely listen to that and they are having those conversations, anderson, you know, that that is being reported. >> those are important conversations for the campaign

to be having with their allies, with their supporters, with members of congress, with other elected officials, with their donors. those are happening right now, but it seems like the conversation this is really happening is they're just publicly saying it was a bad night. and how dare you even raised these concerns? >> no, i don't think that's fair. they have not say said, how dare you raise these concerns? they're listening and yes, they are saying it was a bad night because it was a bad night. and now what they need to do and they're starting to do this is demonstrate that the president can also have some great days in some great nights ahead so i say anderson, let's take a beat. it hasn't even been a week since the debate. we need to figure out what the consensus is with all due respect to congressman doggett, that is not right now. the consensus feeling within the democratic party 40 and even amongst voters, anderson, i was on the night of the debate doing analysis on cnn espanol. and those voters, those audiences along with one

we see on telemundo, heard the debate through translators. they were doing focus group dials throughout of undecided latino voters almost all of them went to biden after the debate because yes, they saw what we saw anderson, but they also heard what we heard coming out of donald trump's mouth actually saying, swear. when people didn't actually hear the president speaking they heard a translator speaking spanish for what he was saying that what that doesn't really make the case for the president, does it? what, well, what it does make the case for anderson is that when you compare the substance of what joe biden said that night and the substance of what donald trump said that at night, a lot of voters in this country took that as the contrast and as the choice that is ahead of us in this election, it is a choice between an accomplished president who did not sound great. and again, acknowledged

that it was a bad night, but that his vision, what he has accomplished, what he wants to do for this wasn't substance by the former prime there's an i on the unit were taking that argument but it but it's fair to look at what donald trump was saying as well dollars as well, because they're absolutely, that's the contrast. >> it, anthony, i'm you've been very clear about the danger you think donald trump poses if he returns to the white house, wonder what you make of a congressman doggett and calls for the president's step side alyssa, not it's not for me to decide that i understand maria's points and i'm actually very sympathetic to maria's points i would just say historically the democrats do better when they are bolder. >> and so if the bold move is to have joe biden president biden stay in the race let's get them out there. let's get them interactive with people like you anderson. let's have impressed the flash so people can see him, not in the state that he was in last thursday however, if he's not up to that he's a great american

patriot and i believe that he'll be honest with the american people. and then i would just suggest to my democratic friends, you had jack kennedy, barak, obama, bill clinton. there's a spirit of youth and boldness and the democratic party that will beat i'll trump if they put up a candidate, whether it's vice president harris, are you guys pick the candidate i believe he is beatable because remember what we're not talking about anderson is the things that joe biden has done in this administration. he is reshoring manufacturing. we are building microprocessor foundries in america. again, we've got an infrastructure bill done in the trump administration. it was infrastructure week every week, nothing got done. we put an infrastructure bill on the table. it got done. we're rebuilding roads, bridges, and tunnels. i want to get the narrative back on that. so if the president is going to bring us that narrative get him out there, let's have him bring us that narrative. if he doesn't want to do that, or he feels

he's not up to it. i respect that. i love him as a patriot and he'll do what's best for the country. and so it's not for me to say, i appreciate maria's position. i also understand the representative dog is position, but i we gotta get the story back on where we're going as a nation what the president is done thus far, which has been very successful and very healing. we do not want to go back to donald trump and i just wanted to point out that when i worked for donald trump maria told me that donald trump was spewing lots of lies and so i sort of old maria and apology, i'll do it right here on the air. you are right about a lot of things, maria. okay. and why and anthony, when you get something wrong, but when you get something wrong, you have to own it and you have to tell people the truth. so that we don't go back to the danger of that. so that's my message, anderson, i don't i don't know where the president wants to go with this, but he should sit down with his family and his

friends and i believe he will do what is in the best interest of the united states whoever they go with, i will support because i understand the existential danger that is donald trump. and this plan that he has for america, which is very dystopian, anthony scaramucci, maria cardona, i appreciate it still more on those damaging new details from the new york times about president biden behind the scenes before the debate, as well as assessments of his condition from european officials. one of the coauthors from the new york times joins us next, also the fallout in the former president's men in hush money case after the supreme court's conservative majority declared him immune from prosecution for all official acts. >> what's the greatest invention of all time? new hands-free sketch or slip ends. you just slip in and they're on. it's like they have an invisible built-in shoe horn. so your foot slides into place so that bending down or touching your shoes, then he'll pillow technology, keep your foot comfy and secure, hands-free sketcher slip bathrobe, so musty new fast

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it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. join me? it chyme.com i'm alex reported in washington and this is cnn prison biden will meet with a number of democratic governors tomorrow according to multiple sources, they sought the meeting to discuss their concerns and the wake of the debate which he blamed tonight on fatigue from overseas travel according to new report in the new york times, this wasn't a one-off. >> the headline and the times biden's lapses are increasingly common according to some of those in the room. john, he's now is david sanger who shares of by-line on the new york times piece, also seen at jim again, gail with her own new reporting joining us as well as michael la rosa, former

specialist system to president biden and press secretary to the first lady. so jami, you heard congressman doggett calling the president to step aside. what are you hearing from your democratic sources about where others in the party stand? >> anderson, i think it's fair to say the dam is breaking top democratic party leaders. this includes former and president admin present administration officials, as well as major party donors, are now saying out loud what, we've been hearing privately for days that after what was a disastrous debate performance they want president biden to step aside to go to the party and the country. they do not think this was a one-off event. or just a bad night. and they think the stakes are too high and that frankly, he would lose to donald trump david we mentioned that tonight. present biden to blame poor performance in the debate on his busy travel schedule in the weeks leading

up to it you write about them. the times, quote, a senior european official who was present said that there had been a noticeable decline in mr. biden's physical state since the previous fall and europeans had been quote, shocked by what they saw. the president at times appeared out of it. the official said it was difficult to engage in a conversation while he was walking in, quote to be clear, they were saying it was more than someone who is simply tired what else have you heard from people that are in your article oh it's a, mixed picture, anderson and what we set out to do with just about the whole times. >> white house team and other reporters that we have around europe is reconstruct these last three weeks and trying to answer just that question, which is could this just be from the fact that they had him find the president's own description tonight, very unwisely flying across the atlantic twice. and then the

last time from italy to los angeles for a fundraiser and back to washington. so he crossed a lot of time zones certainly tired staff members who are younger than he was far younger than he ears work certainly complaining about it. but there may be something deeper going on here, because while the white house calls it a one-off event in talking to staff members, others who've been dealing but the president. it's clear that there has been an increasing frequency of these moments where use either frozen or lost the thread of his conversation whether or not it was more than just the travel travel may have made it worse, but may not be the underlying cause. >> michael the we've been all the reporting is that his family was telling him to stay

in. what do you think their thought processes on this? what do you have? what would be the view from the white house, right? >> so you have two very respected, very credible journalists and i don't doubt single reporting in their pieces i would just say it's going to take a lot more than blind sources to push this family out there just not going to bend to he's not going to step aside because of blinds sources and reminds me of edwin del, what he used to say, a nation of woese's. this is almost like a party of voices if they think that they, if they want the leader of the party to step aside, there's probably a lot of valid a valid validity to what they're saying to their concerns. however, they have to be public about it, like it's going to take nancy pelosi and chuck schumer to really be the ones like hugh scott and barry goldwater and john rhodes did in 1974 to go down and say, there is no support for you, mr. president, i don't see that happening. this is not a dam breaking

because there is one congressman from texas and all respect to congressman doggett, there was one congressman who called for bill clinton to resign in the end this decision would boil down to the first lady and the president know the first lady while she is his spouse, she is not his political advisor. she is now she is one of several valery, his sister margaret, and seeing the ambassador to european union donald and ted kaufman? yes, they will. they will discuss this kind of thing together and it's usually the way biden world works is there's a committee, a consensus by committee, and then they will go at him, but she would never be the one to say joe, i want you to end your aspirations. she doesn't. they've not done that for each other but throughout their 47 year marriage, she's supported his three campaigns for president. he supported her getting three advanced degrees, teaching us first lady,

teaching a second lady. they just have never lived in each other shadows like that. jamie, is it clear to you? who the alternative to president biden would be your congressman cleaver and saying you can't pass over vice president harris said that she would be the person, right. >> and she is rejected calls for president biden to step aside, which would be very inappropriate as his wife as present. look, some of our sources. think that vice president harris would have an edge, but other party leaders we talked to our already floating the idea of opening it up to all contenders having let's call it a five week speed dating primary, maybe having debates between now and the convention. and then leaving it up to the convention their number one concern, who can beat donald trump anderson, david, you also write in the times quote, like many people

his age, mr. biden, 81 has long experienced instances in which he mangled the sentence forgot to name are mixed up a few facts even though we could be sharpen engage most of the time. but in interviews, people in the room with him more recently said the lapses seem to be growing more frequent, more pronounced, and more worrisome had those people raised concerns internally in the white house? >> it's not clear to me if they have in has been sort of a forbidden topic in the white house and type, you'll remember how sharply the white house responded and the president did when the special counsel, her, turned out a report in which they referred to the president as sounding like sort of elderly and forgetful man. and they, they really came down on that. i think part of what's going on here now is that these questions have been whispered about for some time. the white house is not wanted to engage in it. then came the debate and what was happening was evident for everybody t, and now they've got to come up with an

explanation. i didn't note that for the first time that i can recall in recent times, his daughter, the white afternoon, a statement saying with his doctors have ruled out some other things including parkinson's and so forth. it is not under any kind of treatment for that that was all reassuring new i suspect what's going to have to happen. anderson is they're going to have to get the president now, in many different forums, interviews, public forums, and so forth if they're going to really demonstrate that this was all one off event. and maybe they will do that. it's a little bit at high risk if he has a bad day again, the way you did on thursday night but i don't see another way that they could they could get at this. >> david sanger, jamie again, gale, michael the rosa. thank you very much. a quick reminder. david's new book is new cold war's, china's rise, russia's invasion, in america struggled to save the west it's out now. next to former president's latest endorsement

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home served.com closed captioning brought to you by meso book.com our firm only represents mesothelial most victims and their families. >> if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelial oma, call us now as if the former president didn't make it clear enough and he plans to seek revenge against his political enemies. if he wins the 2024 election on his social media platform, be amplified to pose suggesting he go after his opponents. one claims that former republican congressman liz cheney is guilty of treason and called for a televised military tribunal against her, a punishment reserved for war criminals and enemy combatants that are never televised. another post shows the photos of 15 former and current top elected officials, including president biden, vice president harris it says they should be going to jail instead of his former senior adviser, steve bannon joining me now it's cnn legal analyst, norm eisen i mean, in the world of obviously there's always something

outrageous that the foreign president is saying the idea of supporting or even amplifying idea for military tribunals of liz cheney is insane it is and under the law of the utilization of military tribunals, where we've just had years of litigation because of the guantanamo detainees it would be completely contrary to law to use a military tribunals. >> not that she's done anything wrong in the first place, but just in general, the idea of vindictive prosecution, how how real of risk is that? how feasible, how easy it is? would it be for present to do that? it's it's a dead serious risk. >> anderson former president trump has said dozens of times that he would contemplate doing that. he told sean hannity i would have every right to go after them, meaning his political adversaries. he told

dr. phil sometimes revenge can be justified in the cnn debate when they were talking about trump being convicted felon, he said, joe biden could be a convicted felon for some of the things he did and then pointed to routine policy differences not criminal are illegal over things like the border we have to take very seriously. history teaches us when over and over again, these autocratic threats are made that they are possible. and of course, the new supreme court opinion, terrazzo hole in the fabric of rule of law unleashes a president to do more of these would happen hypothetically, if a president trump ordered a new trump attorney general to prosecute democratic officials mean what would happen if the doj was tasked with that? >> this system is not built for those kinds of abuses of problem process. there's very

broad latitude that is given two, in particular two investigations. however, if there were for example, a baseless subpoena, as part of that kind of an investigation, you could go to court, part of the challenges and we've seen this in the supreme court where this bizarre granting of presidential immunity anderson, even to order seal team six to commit assassinations. can you believe that we're talking about that that the dissenting opinion says this opinion would allow the president to assassinate his political enemies if you use an official vehicle like seemed seal team six why bother to investigate them when you have that power, it is a nightmarish prospect and hundreds and hundreds of autocratic threats by donald trump, his supporters, his allies his former aides we have to take that very seriously as

a threat. and what i mean, there's plenty of people who were supporting the former president who say, look, this isn't just, this is bluster. he's not really going to do this. he's going to be too busy winning for america we live through the first ever refusal of a peaceful transition america in america, a tweet from the president to come to washington will be wild and a violent insurrection. >> he's been convicted of 2016 2016 election conspiracy and cover-up 34 counts he's still subject in my view, despite the supreme court opinion to prosecution for the 2020 version, he means what he says in his threats for america, that's why the stakes are so high in this election and thanks so much just ahead, we have more break i can use new reporting on whether the justice department will still pursue their cases against donald trump past election day, even if he wins saving for

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how solomon in new york and this is cnn more breaking news tonight, a new report for the washington post as the justice department plans to pursue criminal cases against the former president past election day, even if he wins under the belief that rules against prosecuting a sitting president do not apply until he's inaugurated. this comes as we're also seeing one of the first real consequences of the supreme court's decision on presidential immunity, sentencing in his hush money case has now been pushed from next week until september. germany now it's former federal prosecutor, geoff tubingen, cnn correspondent kara scannell. does it make sense, jeff, that the justice department would keep trying to pursue cases against trump, even if he wins it does make sense because here we have four-year terms in this country and joe biden and his political appointees will be the leadership of the justice department until noon on january 20, next year. and if the next president, if it could, they stop though the investigations if president

trump takes over could he could stop it at noon and he could dismiss the case at noon, but until that time, noon, that is on january 20, 2025. but until that time joe biden is the president and it is the tradition in this country that presidents run through the tape as the principle of the thing, it wouldn't be well, i think it's an important principle. i mean, this administration has brought this case like it's brought lots of other cases. it thinks it's a little intimate case and it will continue to bring it as long as as long as the biden administration is in power. and i don't see anything wrong with the fact that even if the president-elect is the president-elect, he's not the president and we have very clear distinctions in this country between president elect and president's and until january 20th, that's joe biden took care of what's going on with the sentencing now, in the hush money case. right. so as

you said, it was supposed to be next week and has now been postponed until september 18th. and the judge did this so he could consider trump's motion to throw out the conviction in the case based on the supreme court's ruling earlier this week on presidential immunity, they're arguing that some evidence should not have come in based on the supreme court's ruling and the da's office said that they think this is without merit, but they did not oppose postponing the sentencing. so now both sides will commit their submit their legal briefs and then the judge will ultimately rule. >> so what the judge would that have to go all the way through or could the judge to made a ruling and would there be there be get hearing are so there's not a hearing schedule. >> the judge has given them deadlines to file their legal papers. he said he will issue his decision on september 6. he's already said that. and then if trump loses, the judge said he will sentence trump on september 18. now, trump's team is going to appeal this no matter what. and in fact, they like that. this supreme court issue is now before them because they can then appeal that all the way up to the supreme court, not just through

the new york courts. and of course, if the da's office loses, there would appeal this as well. >> jeff, i mean, does this supreme court ruling to apply to the hush money case? >> well, it does apply the question is, does it apply enough to overturn the conviction? what chief justice roberts opinion said is that not only is there a distinction between official and unofficial conduct prosecutors cannot even introduce evidence of official conduct in a prosecution for unofficial conduct and the claim that the trial trump lawyers will make is that there was some evidence presented in the trial in new york that related to his official conduct, like it's like the hope six x is conversation conversations in the oval office between hope hicks and and president trump. most of the evidence concern came from before donald trump was president. so the ruling

doesn't affect that. and it's unclear how much official evidence has to be in a trial in order to have it overturned. but certainly the trump lawyers are right to try to inject this into the case. i think ultimately they probably won't succeed because that was really a very small part of this trial. but this is just one example of how the decision yesterday in the supreme court is going to reverberate through all these criminal case because into cares. thanks so much. appreciate you coming up back to the debate. fall out how it's leaving so-called never trump hers with they say no place to go celebrate, go forwards in america thursday, july 4, that 70s dirt on it presented by clear choice dental implant centers, scheduled your free consultation with a team that specializes in dental implants visit clear choice, choice.com today the day you get your clear choice dental implants,

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podcasts anti-trump conservatives are filling disillusioned after the president's debate performance or le reeves spoke to a group of them last week this happy bar party is full of people who usually feel pretty bleak. this country needs to wake up there's a dangerous thing happening. it's called complacency he's got their fans of the bulwark and never trump media organization. many are x republicans who reject donald trump, a group that can feel so tiny that some got on airplanes to one another. the event was festive, just a few days before the presidential debate it's hard for me to wake up every morning and talk to my neighbors and note that they're supporting somebody if it doesn't match any of their values. and that key is a former republican who flew in from south dakota with her sister-in-law, were in a very red state, and i'm a very not read person. and that's tough to find a community. there were married to republican men. >> is your husband pro-trump i think he's gonna vote for trump. >> i hope he doesn't know what

for trump, but that's an interesting hostile limit we wanted to talk to these people because they represent an important part of president biden since coalition. >> but after his struggle in the debate, we had to go back to them to see what had changed hofer was shocked and angry. i was terrible i'm i'm completely disillusioned. i at this they're both. a joke. it felt like elder abuse. so yeah, i think it needs to be replaced. if for anything, just out of respect for his humanity robin heartland had flown from salt lake city to be among never trump irs before the debate, i bled the district in north north georgia with marjorie taylor greene. >> he was pretty abusive. two people wearing masks during covid and i was a little traumatized by that well as you described my politics were center left. >> my husband was always

republican and we got along fine for years and then it seemed because everything is kind of broken and we both now are registered democrats in utah, which is rare, worried about what might happen up to the election. >> yes. it's very worried, very worried. i have three daughters they all live in red states and they're in reproductive age, which is in their 20s. and i really worry about there for options. >> when we spoke to hocl and afterward, she said she'd barely been able to sit for the debate initial reaction was shocked and then just sadness and then i think i moved into anger. >> do you think joe biden should be replaced? it hurts me to say that, but yes. i don't think he's electable. i don't know how you dig out of this hole. he could do more events where he looks better. he's looked better since then and they can time it right? let everyone knows deepen their

deep in deepen their existence, what they saw may happen again the pre-debate party in denver was for a live podcast taping from nicole work, which was created by former republican operative at the after party. people told us this was one of the few places where they could meet in real life, people who didn't make them feel crazy i'm a all relatively conservative republican it's almost rather than being republican democrat has become more fitocracy versus moccasins, even though i wouldn't probably economically agree with more of the policies that a trump administration when put in place versus a biden administration i can support someone like trauma. you feel safe here? sure. and you feel like you can speak your mind and people may disagree, but you can talk about it in a rational way that

after the debate, he auckland filter more there. >> you feel like you're being condescended to, to be talked to from the democratic party, kinda like just get behind the candidate was very frustrating. and and angering this is not about to the democrat or the republican party. they both put up candidates that are not electable for very different reasons. trump is a criminal and many other issues. biden is just aging and there is no reason that people should not be concerned with what they see. he's done a great job. you did a great job the last four years, right now, if these are the two options that we have in november, all vote for joe biden's head in a jar before although it for donald trump i'm angry. i'm angry to the point where if joe biden stays on the ticket and donald trump has done the ticket, i'm fast-tracking moving to costa rica. i had it as a five-year plan and maybe poster rijk and i'm going to try and fast track it. i do not want to be here before the republicans

trump's little troll start reducing more or taking way more women's rights hillary joins us now did any of the never-trumper you spoke to say who they would like to see on the ballot? yeah. all of these people desperately wanted trump. and so they have a lot of empathy for the president, but they feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them and they're kind of lost. so one floated maybe pennsylvania governor josh shapiro. another said that maybe a centrist governor could bring her reluctant husband into voting against trump even if he couldn't say so publicly in their conservative small town and a third set that, you know, kamala harris, vice president harris is not super popular and maybe she'd lose, but it was better to try and lose than to not try it all do they think? >> that the president would actually step down yeah, they