trump's little troll start reducing more or taking way more women's rights hillary joins us now did any of the never-trumper you spoke to say who they would like to see on the ballot? yeah. all of these people desperately wanted trump. and so they have a lot of empathy for the president, but they feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them and they're kind of lost. so one floated maybe pennsylvania governor josh shapiro. another said that maybe a centrist governor could bring her reluctant husband into voting against trump even if he couldn't say so publicly in their conservative small town and a third set that, you know, kamala harris, vice president harris is not super popular and maybe she'd lose, but it was better to try and lose than to not try it all do they think? >> that the president would actually step down yeah, they well, there were mixed on that.

>> they've been reading the same reports. we have they're afraid that his ego is in the way or that is families. ego is in the way but they've just feel like this has to be done. it's the only way to beat trump le thank you so much. a reminder. ellie's new book is out next week or black pill, how i witnessed the darkest corners of the internet come to life. poison society and capture american politics the news continues right here on cnn outfront next at breaking news, the full court press to save biden's campaign amid growing pressure to step aside tonight, a democrat in it tight election, he says it's time for him to step aside, plus a senior dnc members says he has a plan for how the party could replace joe biden should he drop out? >> it's a plan, peace says can beat donald trump. so what is it? he's my guest. and delayed the judge in trump's hush money trees and postponing the former president's sentencing. so we'll have it all after the

supreme court's decision on presidential immunity let's go out front good evening, america hill in for erin burnett outfront tonight. the breaking news biden speaking out, the president just addressing donors, offering an explanation for why he performed so poorly at cnn's presidential debate, blaming his travel schedule, sankey almost fell asleep on stage. biden isn't the only one trying to do a little damage control tonight. here's vice president kamala harris in a new interview with cbs news joe biden is our nominee. >> we'd be trump once and we're going to meet him again, appearing. are you ready to eat the country? necessary proud to be joe biden's running mate or for the first time a democratic congress is now publicly calling on the president to step aside in a statement, democratic congressman lloyd doggett, texas writing, i represent the heart of a congressional district once represented by lyndon johnson under very different come stances. >> he made the painful decision

to withdraw president biden should do the same. and it turns out he's not alone in just a moment. i'll speak with a democrat who's running for congress and is also urging biden to withdraw from the race. all of this as questions about his ability to serve are growing louder. cnn spoke with more than two dozen democratic officials donors, and allies of the president. many of them telling cnn, they have made up their minds and they believe the president should quit his campaign. some even pushing for a decision to be made this week. and here's former house speaker, nancy pelosi, a longtime, very close ally of biden now, again, i think it's a legitimate question to say, is this an episode or is this a condition when people ask that question is legitimate of both candidates? >> cnn is also learning democratic governors are set to meet with the president tomorrow to hear from him directly the white house meantime, is acknowledging and its first briefing since the debate, it is fair game to ask

questions about biden's health after the presidential debate. but according to the new york times, biden's lapses are actually becoming more frequent writing that in interviews, people in the room with him more recently said the lapses seem to be growing more frequent, more pronounced, and more worrisome. the times citing this example from june 18, joe biden, during an immigration event, struggled to name his homeland security secretary thanks to all the members of congress who are homeless security secretary i'm not sure going to undo show what all kinda side secretary mayorkas according to the times, some allies were quote, shaken up by that symbol from the president. all this coming as brand new post-debate cnn polling finds 75% of voters say they believe democrats have a better chance of winning in november if joe biden is not the nominal me mj lee is outfront live outside the white house tonight. i know that you're getting some new

information about these comments that president biden just made at a fundraiser, including that explanation about his debate performance some, changes in that, what more you learning? yeah. erica, this is a new explanation that we are getting from the president himself as he was talking at a fundraiser in virginia. and i just want to make clear to our viewers this is all according to the initial pool reports that we are getting from reporters in the room. so until we get that official transcript, we should just consider this as paraphrase but apparently the president apologize to everyone in the room saying, this is not an excuse, but it is an explanation. and he blamed the extensive foreign probable that he did in the lead up to the cnn debate for his poor performance, just a reminder for everyone, he did go to france for the d-day anniversary, and then he turned right back brown to went to italy for the g7 summit and he told the room, i didn't listen to my staff. so the suggestion there being his staff did not think this was a good idea, and then he apparently currently said, i almost fell asleep on

stage. i just want to unpack this new explanation for a second as the explanation for why his debate performance it was so bad. i find it a little bit puzzling and frankly, i'm not sure that a lot of people are going to find this reassuring if anything, some folks might hear this and be even more concerned yes, there were two foreign trips in the lead up to the june 27th at cnn debate. but he returned from italy on june 15th. the debate it again was on june 27, so we're talking about roughly 12 days in-between when he was back in the states. and remember, a part of those 12 days, about a full week he actually spent with his advisers at camp david for the sole purpose of really focusing on debate prep. so why is the president falling asleep on the debate space? the stage at the hours of 9:00 p.m. to ten, 1030 up perhaps erica, it's possible that he was making a light-hearted joke again, we are still waiting for the full context and the tone that he might have used in offering

that up. but i do think a lot of democrats might hear that and say, well, this is not a laughing matter. i will also note again, this is the first time that we have heard this version of an explanation up until now, including the night of the debate, the campaign was saying he is sounding like this because he is suffering from a cold. so again, we now have a new explanation from the president himself. he is blaming the foreign travel before the debate, and we had also heard at one point that he was over-prepared, which is certainly not what a lot of folks saw on that stage. it really appreciate the new reporting important context, as you noted we will wait until we get that full pool report, but obviously we're watching it for that outfront now, democratic congressional candidate adam frisch of colorado, you have been calling on the president to drop out. you just heard this latest reporting from mj, that pool report from this event where the president is saying he was really tired from lots of travel. why do you think he needs to step aside? >> thank, sarah cook right to be here tonight. solemn times, listen over the past five or

six or seven months, this was not a one night blip that happened last thursday. i think there's biden 12. who's ever those inner circle people are, have been protecting biden at all costs and with all due respect, gaslighting journalists on cnn, wall street journal, and others that have actually been asking questions, which i think are legitimate. we have tough times ahead of us. i've been asking for new generation of democratic and republican leaders for that matter for some time i have no idea. this is good for my campaign or bad for my campaign. i do know it's good for the country and good for my district to make sure that these questions are asked and we get a new batch of new leaders to lead the forward, to lead this party forward. >> so just to, just to drill down on that, you want a new batch of new leaders. is this because you have concerns about the president's mental acuity has mental fitness. is it a concern about his age? is it simply that you think he's been in politics too long i'm less concerned about an age, but i think obviously what people have seen over the past many

months inside in a couple glimpses, rarely publicly is that it's just not working for them. >> and i'm not a doctor. i don't want to start getting into all these diagnosis that are flying around. i just don't think that he is the best opportunity for our country and our party going forward over the next many years and let alone, you can't govern if you don't win. and i think we have a deep bench. it's important to get some other people up there to make their case. i'm not focused how those people are. everyone talks about the same 12 or 15 people and i'll leave that up to others. >> so then i'm going to ask anyway, so i know you may not want to weigh in, but we do have new polling from cnn, which shows vice president kamala harris actually within the margin of error against donald trump at polling better than joe biden does in that head-to-head matchup, would you support her as the nominee? let's see who actually is on the ballot. i think that it's really, really important to understand that biden president biden and vice president kamala harris are linked at the hip and while the polling is going up and down, we have not seen

500 million or so of republican television ads hammering away at the two of them, ability need to do i think i wish the democratic party had an open and competitive primary, a year-and-a-half ago. i think it was short-sighted and those insular shutting down the florida state democratic party from even having a primary. i think it's all coming back to bite the party right now. i don't know how chicago works with the rules and regulations, and i'm not that interested in all i know is that we need to start an open and competitive primary sooner rather than later before i let you go. >> as i noted you are in a race yourself. are you concerned about the impact of president biden at the top of the ticket when it comes to your race and other down-ballot races? >> he was kind of interesting over the past couple of months way before what happened last thursday with that debacle listen, i want head you want to have the rest of your ticket be doing well having said that, i've had a lot of people, independents and republicans come up to me and say, they're going to be voting for

president, former president trump, but they don't want unfettered president trump and they're starting to look strategically at where in the house and we're in the senate across the country, they can try to provide a balance. >> i'm not sure if this is 17 people or if this is going to be 25% of the vote. again, it might not be believable from your viewers, but i'm not really focused on that. i'm trying to focus on what the right thing to do for the country as, and this is for sure, appreciate you joining us tonight. thank you thank you, erica, have a great night. >> you too, outfront now, jamal simmons, former communications director for vice president kamala harris, and former deputy to center president joe biden and scott jennings, former special assistant to president george w bush. >> gentlemen, good to see both of you tonight, jamal, when we look at what did day it has been and the number of public either calls for the president to step aside or very clear movement, right toward that. is this a dam breaking? are you anticipating a flood i don't think we've seen the dam breaking yet. >> i think most democrats are still willing to give the president the opportunity to make the case remember, this is

something that present is going to have to show us can't just tell us about it, right? it can show us better than he can tell us. and so what we need to do is see the president in unscripted long-form events where he's engaging with people and then we can watch him as he does his job. this is what his job is. his job isn't standing up on stages and debating with another opponent. his job is sitting at tables associated with people than working through issues. so we can get a window into what that looks like and his ability to do that. i think that will give a lot of comfort to people in the country that it can do the jobs. >> scott, what do you make of the calls that we've heard today? >> unscripted long form events. well, let's see, that's what a debate is. i mean, he had 90 minutes of an unscripted event the other night and it was a disaster. here's what i make of it. we've had this is an amazing day. number one, the new york times reporting that he's lapsing in meetings. this is becoming more frequent. number two, we found out today get a felon and a crack attic does now sitting in on white house senior staff meetings. and number three, the president is now tonight to his own donors, blaming a foreign trip

that ended 12 days before the debate for his disastrous performance on thursday this is what you call a high-speed come apart. the white house is off the rails. the president has effectively admitted tonight that he is not up to both campaigning for president and being president. i don't know where we're going from here, but this has been a momentous day and i'll be shocked if there aren't more democrats who come out and say, what are we doing? we are walking into disaster if we stick with this, i reassure scott wasn't talking about the criminal felon that had the secret documents that he was holding in his bathroom and mar-a-lago because there was a felon that we haven't talked about tonight where that's the case. are you comfortable, jamal? are you comfortable with a hunter biden run senior staff meetings? do you think this is good? do you think this is good? >> right. yelling at me. listen. listen. >> i'm asking you asking you were talking about joe back we're talking about joe biden tonight, who is admitting to his own donors people in your party that he can't both perform and campaign. and you want to talk about the

mar-a-lago documents case, which is not going to come to trial before november. this is the setting president you worked for him. i want to know if you were in a senior staff meeting, would you want hunter biden looking over your shoulder? that's here's what i want to know. i want to know if we've got somebody in the white house has got the judgment to look out for our freedom, or somebody who wants to take our freedom away. and i think most americans know is that the maga republicans, whether it's donald trump or marjorie taylor greene, are some of the ones who are running are in the business i've taken freedoms away from women and other people in this country who are trying to live their lives. and that's not what they want. and that's the reason why i think the trump is still going to be in trouble when you get down to election day. let me talk in looking at election de and who may or may not be going up. >> donald trump up against donald trump in november. i am really struck by this new cnn polling. you worked for vice president harris jamal when we look at the polling, she is within the margin of error in a matchup with donald trump. in fact, she's pulling better than joe biden in that moment. congressman jim clyburn today and i'm gonna paraphrase

because i know we're a little tight on time saying, look the parties didn't do anything to get in the way or try to do a work around with the vice president. is she the best choice for the democratic party if joe biden is a step aside i think kamala harris is a fantastic person to govern this country if she's called upon a governance, i think when we fit, we pick the next candidate. we use a party to have an open process, real out. everybody buddy who wants to compete to get into compete. i think she'll walk into that process with the strongest hand of any of the people who could, who could run. but we need to see what happens because it's not going to you know, what, we don't want to have as scott walker or marco rubio or somebody who was cooked up in the lab by a bunch of elites when we say, oh, this would be the best person to run, and we've put them out there and they're not that great. i think kamala harris would be a fantastic, but we've got to see how she stacks up against some of the other people who are running and you've got a lot of great candidates out there. and here's the thing. if we have a big open convention and it's a big floor fight and everybody's paying attention will dominate the news, will that bunch of these candidates in a way that the american

public will like? and i think we'll find somebody that everybody can rally around and then go forward from there. >> well, my next guess has a plan for that to stick around for the b block because we're going to talk about that. but scott before, before we end this segment, i am curious the fact that the vice president is pulling better against donald trump republicans have spent years tearing her down. could she be tougher for donald trump to become november i don't know. i don't know if anybody could be any worse than joe biden is right now. i mean, look at the cnn polling. he's losing among independents three-quarters of the country is lost confidence in his ability to lead i mean, it's really bad. i don't know if you could get any worse. so from that perspective, it might be worth rolling the dice on it just to get a fresh face in there. but it sounds like malls ready for it and he knows are better than either of us. i mean, i mean, could you do worse than joe biden right now, is that telling us donors he's not up to campaigning and being president, i don't think you could occur. donald trump gentlemen, i'm going to leave it there. always a pleasure to speak with the both of you. thank you. out front. next that push to replace joe biden, as i

said, i'm gonna speak with a longtime senior member of the dnc who has a proposal tonight to replace the president, should he drop out? the right? so what is it? how would it work? he's my guest plus rudy giuliani loses his law license because of the lies he told about the 2020 election and seen kfile and covering audio of a top republican who was responsible for shaping the parties agenda. someone pushing some extreme restrictions on abortion it's an absolute scientific fact that no abortion is ever performed to save the life of the mother feeling from a backed up gut mirror lax works naturally with the water in your body to help you go through your gut and your mood will follow for eight grams of fiber and try mirror fiber gummies lawmakers are trying to shut down planned parenthood, the health care of more than 2 million people is at stake our right to basic

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that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. imprint.com in brynn for certain five good things. >> listen wherever you get your podcasts tonight, president biden said for a high-stakes interview later this week, he'll sit down with abc news. >> it's his first interview since its design astros debate performance. is it too little though, too late harryette and joining me now to go beyond the numbers. all right. so harry, when we look at where we are today, right vendor were where we were perhaps on wednesday, joe biden was trailing donald trump going into the debate. he is trailing him coming out of it. put this in a little historical perspective for me. yes. so we can look back i can see if there are any candidates that match that description. in

fact, there have been a few who trail going into the first debate, incumbents, and then trail coming out of that first debate can see on your screen right now, carter ford, bush and trump in 2020, you know what those four gentlemen have in common besides being good luck in all four of them, went on to lose reelection. so joe biden by trailing going into the first debate and then trail and coming out of the first debate, joins a company that i don't think he wants to be a part of. so in order to win, he's going to have to defy at least that history. >> so is there a bright spot historically at all here using the biden? yes. it's the bright spot that i always like to go to for incumbents who are trailing down the stretch and we have to go all flight back to 1,948 harry s. truman was trailing pretty much throughout that entire campaign. of course, he trailed in the final polls. and then of course he went on to win reelection. of course, the big difference between harry truman and joe biden now is joe biden's approval rating is in the 30s, not anywhere close to his disapproval. we're writing while truman was basically neck and neck between his approval and disapproval rating. but

i'll just add this note, erica, when you have to go all the way back to 1948 for your historical analogy to be good news. and everything else is bad news. that's not exactly where you want a base. so what about the chances of a comeback, a resurgence, if you will? yeah. so i have been basically as these new paul's have come out post-debate and the poll is going into the debate basically very skeptical of joe biden, okay, it's because of what you saw on slide one. it's because you saw what you saw on slide two. so i was like, okay, let's take a step back. is there any good news? is there anything that could really change things in a way that we're not used to so our cnn poll that came out earlier, de, essentially said, okay, are if you've chosen a candidate, are you willing to change your mind or have you not made up your mind and take a look at this percentage that say that they couldn't fact change your mind. look at this. it's 31% that surprised me this is a huge number, erica hill that is a huge number. i was not expecting that number to be so high. but when you take into account that both of these candidates, both joe biden and donald trump, are not

particularly well. i think someone people are just waiting for an alternative. this number is more than double where we were at this point in 2020. so the fact is yes, joe biden's trailing, but there are a lot more voters at this point. then i think we're used to and i think we have to take that into account. yes, it's been a steady race, but there's still a lot of topsy turvy things to go out and we'll just have to wait and see what happens. well, buckle up. my friends hasn't been quite a ride over the next few months feeling harry, thank you. thank you. shade it out front now as jane dog, but he's been a member of the dnc for more than 30 years. and tonight is calling on his part great to replace joe biden at the top of the ticket. it's good to have you with us tonight. so you believe it is time, in fact, for the president to step aside and you want basically a mini primary over the next month or so ahead of the convention. is that really enough time for that? >> sure there is look in politics. two weeks, three weeks become a lifetime. so much can happen and it would be energizing for the party if it were to happen. i laid out a plan. i sent it to the party chair and i've circulated it with many other dnc members.

it's a plan to create a controlled process whereby dnc members would be authorized to endorse candidates they would be certified by the party secretary and then the process would begin with town halls. that would be televised that the party would sponsor, and then we come to the convention we'd have a limited field because if, as i call for 40 or so required, delegates are dnc members to endorse. you would only get a field of maybe four or five candidates. and i think we all know who they are it would be a respectful process. it would be an exciting process. you all in the media would be covering it wall to wall from noon to one in the morning every day. it would be like the kennedy election in 1960. it would be, i think, very engaging. it would be open, transparent i think it would be very democratic and inspiring to the american people. here's the point instead of this happening, joe biden leaving later in the

process toward the convention. and handing it off to kamala harris, it would give her an opportunity to show her stuff in an engaged democratic process as gmail was talking about where she actually won. i think she would win, but it would be a process where people would come out of it, energized and excited about the outcome, not simply a coronation which i think would not be helpful to her are helpful to the party or to the country. >> how much support you have within the can see for this proposal. >> there's a number of dnc members who've told me that they like it. i haven't heard anything from the party leadership on. i don't expect to hear anything from the call ultimately has to come from joe biden. he has to decide whether he's going to leave. but here's the point. if the hold up is that he's afraid of handing it off to kamala harris and she may not be able to win this solves that problem if there's a fear that if he withdraws, there'll be chaos. this solves that problem. if there's a fear that if he withdraws donald trump will

win. this solves that problem. i think it would create such energies, such excitement and it would result in a candidate who was viewed as the consensus candidate of all democrats coming down to that convention they'd have their wind in their sails and they would be able, i think to do very well so you're working on november is something that you see as a unifying moment for the party should point out in our most recent cnn poll, so-called moveable boaters, right where there's still some wiggle room. >> so they're more likely to support a democratic alternative against donald trump than they are. joe biden. i wonder though, looking at all of this and where we are, what has transpired over the last several days. do you think the situation could have been avoided? >> sure. it could have been avoided. people have been talking about this as an issue. a few years ago. it's gotten worse over the last several months. look, joe biden deserves better than this. this is not the way he should go out. he should go out as the person who defeated donald trump, who passed significant legislation in its first couple

of years before we had a dysfunctional republican leadership in congress and it would be an opportunity, i think for him to give a farewell address where he becomes the person who sacrificed ambition for the sake of the country tree. it would be his moment in history where he'd go out. i think elevated in stature rather than reduced. i do not want to see a situation where for the next 345 months. what we're doing is waiting for the next verbal gaffes, waiting for the next fall step, waiting for some other sign that joe biden is too old. that's what the media will do. that's what you all will do. and frankly, the debate showed that, and that's all we've been talking about since. and that most likely what we'll be talking about for the next months to come, we need to be talking about a democratic candidate with a vision for the future, who actually can galvanize the party and the country. and we need to focus on that versus donald trump, not on whether joe biden can get his sentences straight. we will be watching

to see what the decisions are that are made. james agi, please let us know if you do. in fact, hear back from leadership and what they say about the plan. thank you. >> i will. thank you. >> i'll find next set trump's sentencing and the new york hush money case and delayed after yesterday's immunity decision from the supreme court. so will that ruling ultimately affect? trump's guilty verdict plus a top republican who shapes the gop's platform, has actually entertain the idea of imprisoning women who get abortions some people say that they should have some kind of penalty. so something on their record make this assembler to share and save during the qia summer stickers sales event in the three rokia sorrento the tech forward sportage the available all wheel drive celtics or the iihs just stop safety pick plus telluride. >> each one recommended by consumer reports this summer, visit, your local qia dealer and say get 1.9% apr for 48

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>> call 1803, 558999, or visit home serve.com closed captioning brought to you by meso book.com are firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. >> if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelial oma call us now new tonight, donald trump's sentencing officially delayed the judge and the stormy daniels hush money case. >> now, pushing that sentencing date back to mid september, it was, of course, originally scheduled for next thursday. the decision comes after a team trump alerted the manhattan da that it does plan to challenge the verdict in the wake of the supreme in court's ruling that donald trump does have some presidential immunity for official acts, which also limits, of course the evidence that can be used. now that

ruling from the high court also means another delay for trump in special counsel jack smith's election subversion case, where any proceedings at all may not resume for a full month ryan goodman are outfront legal expert ease with me now. so ryan, you actually be there are a few areas in this hush money case where donald trump's lawyers have a solid argument to now say the evidence is in fact covered by presidential immunity. beye, that ruling that we got from the supreme court on monday, what specifically is the evidence you think would fall on? and are there so it is counterintuitive. >> i can imagine that many a person would think, how is this possible if it's about official acts, get immunity. the allegations in the hush mckay's so all about private conduct with michael cohen in the 2016 election before trump's ever elected. here's the key issue. i think we're that trump team has the most solid argument is hope hicks is testimony. the testimony where she or she ends up crying on the stand many observers think because she is fully incriminated, the president at

the time. what she testifying to a meeting with the president in february of 2018? her job position at the time as white house director of communications. he's the president united states at the time communicating with her and then he's talking to her about the fact that the hush money story was coming out at a time. and he is happy that it's coming out in 2018 rather than before the election. so it was very important testimony what can the trump team do? they can say there it is. it's a private comment as private and confidential conversation between the president and one of his senior advisers. what are the what are the supreme court just tell us. that's the kind of evidence that would be immune if it was charged. and then otherwise can't be entered at all as evidence in a trial. that's their argument. i think the arguments against it, but there's something solid about that. it's not laughable or implausible, would that be enough that one piece of evidence you think to call for a new trial so they have one argument against them that i can't see how they'll defeat it.

>> and therefore, there wouldn't be a new trial down below the justice in the case. justice merchan already said that trump had waived the ability to try to raise an immunity claim because trump knew months before that he could raise this argument. in fact, there's even a brief in which the trump defense team says the federal court, you can safely ignore the district attorney's arguments on presidential immunity because we're not making that claim then trump tried to make the claim and that basically the eve of the trial and the justice said too late, you've waved it. that's way too late. now, even though the supreme court ruled in his favor, still too late so quickly before i let you go, ryan, do you think there is enough time to get all of that sorted out? right. if the perhaps need to be oral arguments, if the judges to bring it up everyone in to get that sorted said before this new sentencing date in september or do you see that being pushed again i think the judge probably actually pick this september de to that does not get pushed again, it's ample time. >> and i think he's even left a large margin of error to be able to decide these cases on

the briefs. >> ryan goodman always appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you also, tonight, rudy giuliani. >> now disbarred donald trump's former attorney, banished from practicing law in the state of new york. and this is over his efforts to interfere in the 2020 election. it's just the latest fallout for the former mayor. he's also been indicted in arizona for his role in the fake elector scheme. there this as a fake trump electron wisconsin in is still overseeing elections in the state. roberts mandela admitted to trying to overturn the 2020 election. there is now a push to get him removed. sara marie, ease out front those i see ten palsy lectures now i've known for their dishonesty for wisconsin elections it's commissioner robert spin down this is turning into a regular welcome although it's the first time they've had a theme song, we didn't have a songs

believe it or not specific to having a fake elector. i'm shocked, but i wrote a song that's the tellers team called black violence roughly four years ago, spin dell was signing papers to serve as a republican fake elector for donald trump who lost it's the state by more than 20,000 votes. >> those papers spin del and other wisconsin fake electors now admit we're part of an attempt to improperly overturn the 2020 presidential election results something they acknowledged in a civil lawsuit settlement. but nothing in that deal blocked him from staying on the board that oversees elections in the badger state. >> it all it is a concern that someone who isn't acknowledged fake elector oversees our elections sam lippert is one of dozens of activists trying to keep the pressure on spin down, bob spindle must resign from the wisconsin elections commission, period. we caught up with spindle heading into a commissioners your memory with cnn, can we just ask you a couple to ask if there was any chance he'd step aside? fares protest downstairs calling for

you to resign. do you have any plans to do that? but every month. >> so you're used to it by now i've been around. do you think that they have a point after that? civil sediment settlement you signed when it came to the whole fake elector plot? >> no, i don't think so. there was all settled he told us his goal this year is to ensure everyone can vote at election. >> laws are followed. what about 20:20? looking back now, i mean you said there was fraud all over the place, all over the country. >> i didn't say that. >> he did back in december 2020, without evidence to back it up, where you have fought all over the country in the 2020 election especially and swing states. >> now he says i think really nobody knows in terms of fraud only god knows, but i think we had a good election soon after activist filed into the meeting room from the jump, it turned contentious. >> it is imperative that you, mr. bob spin dale, resign immediately commissioner spin down he has a question. >> white democrat administration placed 185 polling places to just five, so so talk to me, talk to your

liking, walking white democrats. >> wow, wow, wow, wow. >> hold on. you should not be on the wisconsin election commission where presenting any person in the state of wisconsin, and it is imperative that you do what is right for our elections in this state and resigned today outside activists said, they're also motivated by spindles previous comments seeming to celebrate lower turnout among black and hispanic voters in milwaukee in the 2022 midterms a characterization spindle has disputed the sense of entitlement was just real. he feels very protected. >> he has reason to feel secure wisconsin's republican senate majority leader, devin lemma, who is the only person who has the authority to to remove spindle from the wisconsin elections commission. his office is right here, but he didn't want to talk to us, ought to resign speaker after speaker called on spindle to step down and i call on him to do the ethical thing. the right thing, and to reason design spindles response, no plans to

resign. the protests aren't thanks. >> so ask next month to deadlock protesters plan to keep up the fund? no so sarah, are there others who acted as fake electors in similar positions as we head into the 2024 election. >> yeah, there are actually fake electors that are willing all kinds of power ahead of november in a rural county in nevada, the top objections official is a fake elector and arizona, there's a state senator who was a 2020 fake elector. and in georgia, the lieutenant governor was a fake elector in 2020. he's winning welcome to investigations and insisted that he did not take part in any wrongdoing. are really important reporting. appreciate it. thank you i'll front next is cnn's kfile and covering audio of a top republican tap to shape the party's platform, pushing extreme anti-abortion positions he's even entertain the possibility of jailing women and doctors. plus a ceasefire

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crystal clear on that. that last comment is false abortion is provided in some cases as a lifesaving measure for women out front. now, andrew kaczynski, senior editor of cnn's kfile. you went and dug through a lot of these comments from ed martin's over the last two years or so his views on abortion are i think extreme actually puts it mildly. yeah. that's right. and ed martin is a name that you might not know, but this is someone who's going to wield significant influence over the party platform that's basically the blueprint that the party puts out as they're principles that how trump is going to govern how republic, what republicans are going to run on and he's one of three people selected to help craft it. and his position on abortion is really, it is about as extreme as you can get. he supports a national ban. he doesn't support exceptions for rape or incest, and he even has discussed the possibility of jailing women who get abortion.

and this is all coming at a time when republicans abortion has really been such a losing issue for republicans. we've seen trump's sort of tried to moderate his rhetoric on abortion, but martin is actually pushed back on that. he said that trump isn't trying to water down the party's position on abortion, but some of those views that he support on abortion, there her so extreme, he said he does not even support abortion in the case of this 10-year-old ohio girl who was raped to take a listen to those comments this 10-year-old was brought up as an example of why abortion is necessary. >> now, i have said over and over again that the examples that shouldn't be the rule, right? you can't let the, the exceptions be the rule especially when you get engaged in debate and i refuse to do it. >> i mean, that is really something because i think we all remember that story. i think you also found some remarks he talks about the possibility of jailing a woman women, i should say, who've

had abortions. i want to play that what do you do with the woman that has an abortion? >> i don't think we have a good answer yet some people say that they shouldn't be held liable in any way. some people say they should have some kind of penalty so something on their record. i don't know. i mean, i certainly think that you're gonna find a lot of people that don't step away from jail time because they're going to say, well, this is some, but if you believe it's a baby, i do. then you have to do something to protect the baby so he doesn't quite have an answer. but seems even if other people are opposed, but he's not opposed to jail time. well, that's right. and martin actually compared abortion later on in that radio show from his, that's where we found these clips to a family that was intentionally starving. a child to death. he said the state in that instance would step in so we can the pair that to abortion. and he also argued sort of fill philosophically about jailing women who get abortions. he said, you need to frame the argument and he said, if you

accept the framing, that anti pro abortion advocates use, are they say it's about a baby. he says, then you can't go women. but if you use the framing that earth but a woman's choice, but he says, if you use this framing that it's about a baby, then he says the discussion of punishment for a woman is something that can be discussed. >> i know you're reach out to the rnc what did they tell you? what did they say about these views and whether these user actually making it into the party platform so the rnc told us that the platform committee has yet to convene to discuss what the language should be in the final document that's a quote from their spokesperson. we did reach out to martin several times. he didn't respond to us. and then of course trump has said that he supports exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother, but he's these are the people that they're putting in the rnc to put the platform together, look, it's important and it's important to hear this end, to know who is in charge of that platform. so that we can certainly see once we have that path form. i appreciate it as always. thank you. just up

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get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. for imprint.com. imprint for certain tonight, pushing for a ceasefire in ukraine, hungarian prime minister viktor orban now encouraging ukraine's president to consider a ceasefire with russia to quote, speed up peace talks. >> the authoritarian ruler, one of vladimir putin and donald trump's strongest allies in europe, making his first visit to kyiv since the start of the war outfront. now, oldest seven is sheena, ukraine's deputy prime minister, who's charged with integrating ukraine into the you and nato. madam deputy prime minister, it's good to have you with us tonight. viktor orban, of course, has tried to block eua to ukraine throughout this war now wants to cease fire to speed up peace talks with russia. is this an option that ukraine is considering? >> well, the context is a bit different, is that basically a de ago hungary has taken over the presidency in the european

union. and this was the major progress of, from the stores orban visit to signal ukraine that ukraine's european integration is not done. this tread that even, all the next six months while hungary will be presiding in eu this track will be, will be there. of course. i'm minister orban has taken a specific position when it comes to the aggression of the russian federation in to ukraine trying to balance between between everybody. so indeed we heard that a message about the ceasefire, but he perfectly understands that he cannot be out of the context and the context is totally different. the ceasefire is the option which has never worked over the last decades. so it's not something new which can be putting on the table definitely for country fighting for its survival. >> okay. defense here, lloyd austin today saying the u.s. will give ukraine more than $2.3 billion in additional aid. you mentioned the nato summit. you're in washington for the

native summit hoping to establish guaranteed military funding what happens to the war if you don't secure that money? yeah, indeed, we have a delegation with me, chief of president's administration, year mark, and ministry of defense or rustem overo and the major focus in the military support we have already secured the financial support to ukraine through the g7 meeting commitment. and a fifth to billions we're working on finalizing the commitment in terms of the military support and advanced thinking to your atlantic festival, the nature of washington summit. we see the largely the commitment of all the allied also 32 allies to set this bar. and i think it's really important that we will get there ukraine is developing, get some capacity, but this is not only the war of aggression against ukraine, this was a war of aggression against the democratic order and the rules-based order. and i think it's the best interest

of allies to invest into ukraine's capability to defend itself rather than expect the war on the natal mourners. >> to that point. as ukraine has continued to seek more funding for president trump is once again speaking out about funding, questioning. in fact, us support. this was just in the last week. take a listen. >> he's given $200 billion now or more to ukraine, the money that we're spending on this war and we shouldn't be spending, it should have never happened that was the former president of course, at the cnn debate last week, how is ukraine preparing for the possibility that usaid could be slashed or perhaps even end if in fact donald trump is reelected well while i'm playing, i agree for sure that nobody would want this war to, to start and ukrainians will be the happiest nation on the world if we would not be in a situation of war. but what we're talking about is about the shielding and securing the

financial commitment, not speaking, but constant increasing all the financial and then she'll needs but this situation enabling your crazy to sustain its capability requires a sustainable commitment in terms of military and financial support. and these are the decisions we're talking about. it's not about mobilizing or scaling out the financing is the bulb securing the state's sustainability and continuities but this financing and vice think this is the major focus. and the last thing of course ukraine wants is to have speculations on these issues deputy prime minister august stephanie sheena. >> appreciate you taking the time to join us tonight. thank you. thanks for joining us. the lead starts now and welcome to the lead on jake tapper this hour, just one day after the u.s. >> supreme court ruled the president, trump has immunity from prosecution for official acts that he committed while in

office. the former president seems to be testing the limits, so he's amplify and calls for his political opponents to be jailed. one of those elected officials listed will join us a minutes plus. is that largely what a potential second term under donald trump would look like retribution for his perceived political enemies. the factors that could embolden mr. trump ahead and leading this hour, the white house doing its best to try to push back on questions about president biden, his mental fitness is advanced age. all legitimate questions in over-drive since last week, cnn presidential debate. now, it's not just pundits and democratic sources anonymously floating leinz to journalists, at least one sitting down democrat congressman lloyd doggett of texas is now the first to go on the record calling on president biden to drop out of the 2024 race. let's go to cnn's mj lee. she's getting new reaction at the white house and jake, press secretary karine i'm john per, faced some tough questions this afternoon. some of them from you yeah. >> this was the first white house briefings since the debates or you can imagine the barrage of questions fro