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three-to-one, three-to-one today by more liebermann at the pentagon. and this cnn breaking news, president biden remains defiant amid growing calls that he should bow out of the presidential race saying he is quote, the most qualified person to beat former president trump. and in an interview with abc news is george stephanopoulos, biden denies that he's behind in the race. >> do you really believe you're not behind right now i think it's all pulsars. i talked to tell me she torso you won the popular vote in 2020, but it was still deadlier, close in the electric voting. yes. but you're behind now in the

popular vote i don't i don't buy that he doesn't buy it spotlight remains on biden trump was off the campaign trail today, but his campaign remains ready to pounce with one source telling cnn in their view, quote, chaos is our friend i want to bring in our own steve contorno for the latest in trump world. steve, i wonder this trump's campaign have a plan if biden were to drop out of the race? >> well, it's funny gym because donald trump four really nine months now, has been suggesting that joe biden wouldn't make it to all the way to november. and yet know, there has not been much serious planning is assuming that joe biden wouldn't be in the race. and now they are scrambling, just like everybody else finger out what exactly is going to happen yet next, they did not anticipate that this would be the major story line from this debate. eight days later. and they are watching these events unfold and they are starting to

get a feel for the other potential contenders that could be in this race. they are looking through i understand the rnc holds that good. i have briefing books of all the governors and senators that are being tossed around right now is potential replacements. they're starting to attack vice president harris in their messaging. so really, we're seeing a little bit of a shift in strategy, acknowledging the changed realities and the uncertainty going forward but they also know this and this is something republican pollster recently told me, the devil, you know, is better than the devil. you don't know. and many people inside that trump campaign believed that they are other path to election is much cleaner, which you biden still in this race at trump himself attacking harrison and sometimes quite aggressive terms. one question on another topic today, trump claimed today, he knows nothing about what's known as project 2025, which is a plan for quite dramatic changes supported by some and the right wing to the government. why is he doing that?

>> well, jim, proudly 2025 is a plan being put in place in a recruitment effort by the heritage foundation, which is a conservative think tank very closely aligned with the former president. in fact, many of the people who are involved in putting together this playbook used to work for his administration, but they have been increasingly a focal point of the tax from the biden administration biden campaign linking trump to some of the more controversial policies that they say that they would hope that a president trump would pursue in a second term, including things like restricting abortion and contraceptive medication, banning pornography. a lot of culture war type issues. but today's announced or today's announcement from president trump former president trump comes after kevin roberts, the head of heritage, said quotes, the country was in the process of the second american revolution, which will remain a bloodless level revolution if the left allows it to be that

quote, obviously getting a lot of tension for violence that it predicts what as you say, the fact is the trump campaign, trump himself had been aligned quite closely with the heritage foundation in that project prior, steve contorno, thanks so much the next hour of cnn newsroom starts. now you are in the cnn newsroom on jim sciutto, the breaking news tonight, president biden responding to growing pressure for him to step aside tonight with more elected democratic lawmakers calling for him to drop out of the race. biden says it would take divine intervention for him to leave the race. this is what he told abc news zanker, george stephanopoulos for more than mighty cannot sit yogurt out of the race. i gather race and lord, on monday is not coming down i mean, these hypotheticals, george yes. i

mean, your fault, it's not that hypothetic go anymore. i grant that they have not requested the meeting, but it's been rotated. i met with them. i've never lot of these people i've talked with them right? our conversation with that came i had more time 11 gym climber. i spent time with many hours off and on the last row with chuck schumer it's not like i had all the governors all the governors biden also dismissed any suggestion that he is not the most qualified candidate to beat former president donald trump. >> he slammed his critics. his lambda polling he also took the blame himself for his disastrous debate performance did you ever watch the debate afterwards? i don't think i did well, we don't share it. >> what i want to get at is what were you experiencing as you're going through the debate? did you know how badly it was going? >> now look the whole way, i

prepare. nobody's fault, mind. nobody swap them mine. eye i prepared, but i usually would do sit down as i did come back for invaders or nasa security council for explicit detail and i realized about partway through all i could quote is the new york times had me down ten points before the debate nine now, or whatever the hell it is in fact matter is that when i looked at is that he also lied 28 times. i couldn't i mean, the way the debate rand, not my fault. no one else's no one else's but it seemed like you were having trouble from the first questionnaire even before he spoke well, i just had a bad night. i've had it's. been as explanation throughout tonight's interview is a high-stakes gamble. it affect a regain control of his campaign,

convince his party and the public. here's the right guy to win in november, joining me now is the first democrat in congress to call on president biden to step aside. he is representative lloyd doggett from texas congressmen. thanks so much for taking the time tonight so good to join you, jim was there anything you heard from president biden tonight? >> it makes you second your call for him to step aside nothing. >> joe biden is a good man. he's an american patriot. yet the need for him to step aside as more urgent tonight than when i first called for it on tuesday he doesn't need to convince me or any member of our democratic caucus or probably any democratic elected official that he is a much better, more qualified person to be our president again than a convicted criminal who tried to overthrow the government and is engaged in appalling conduct. but despite that difference he has trailed in state after state and the new

york times poll this week, it's the worst that he's done now, we have a call, not because we dislike joe biden i don't think he would be a qualified president. we may not be the lord almaty calling from on high, but from maine to washington tonight, from chicago, from arizona, for people all over the country saying, mr. president, the risk of a trump presidency to destroy our democracy, to give us, to take over the government, never give it back again is so great that we have to have our strongest candidate. now i know i hear from some of the biden supporters there like a constituent who sent me a one-line message that i loved and treasured for a decade he said, you're my horse. and i'm with you if you've never win another race, and biden has some supporters like that, but we can't afford to lose this race. and that's why we have to pick the strongest candidate

possible. and every day he delays in making that decision, makes it more difficult. we're wasting our time defending him when we should be pointing out the shortcomings, the failures, the wrongdoing of donald trump. and every day he delays. it, makes it more difficult for a new person to come on board who can defeat donald trump? rob you are not alone in the democratic caucus tonight. and other democrat, mike quigley of illinois joined him calling for president biden to step aside. i wonder when you have private conversations with others in the house or there's in the democratic party, do you expect more of them to do the same to call for him to drop out you know, i've heard from so many members right today and i think there will be more calls next week. it's just that delaying this into next week a president who says the polls don't show what they show, don't accept reality that is a real problem for us in the longer he delays the bigger problem and someone

for whom i have such respect and and who i still hope will see through what is around him, the people that are insisting that he has to run again and we'll recognize that he can make that sacrifice as hard as it is, and that he does not want his legacy to be that he's the one who turned over our country to a tyrant are you saying that biden is not aware of how bad the situation is and that he is in your view and let's be frank. i've spoken to pollsters who believe the same thing that he doesn't recognize that he's losing while i think is words to george stephanopoulos tonight, could not have been clear that he rejected the notion that he was not behind hi doesn't believe the polls and we all know there have been problems with polls in recent years. >> and they're still are. but this is poll after poll, it's not just one or two showing this and a very comprehensive times poll this week. other polls that are out there in the battleground states whereas

george pointed out in his the questions are senate candidates are way out ahead and nevada way out ahead. and yet, biden cannot seem to convince people that he's the best candidate for president. despite the atrocious record of his opponent i don't know what it is. i frankly, i don't fully understand it. certainly the debate made it much worse. and the problem is, we can never take that debate away, no matter even if he'd had a perfect presentation tonight that debate, those comments that mumbling and fumbling that the president did in that debate, we will see over and over again and republican adds, reminding people of that and it's really difficult to overcome that. and the situation you've met with the president personally, many times over a number of years. have you personally seen a decline in his cognitive capability, his sharpness, his communications? >> i can't really say that. i've met with him a malt, a

large number of times and i can't comment on that, but i do visit with people who say they have seen some market changes in recent months the washington post is reporting that democratic senator mark warner is, is attempting to assemble senate democrats to meet with biden face-to-face and asked him to exit the race do you believe that kind of meeting might move the president because frankly, when you hear the president on abc tonight, you heard him in wisconsin today and speaking to reporters. >> he doesn't sound at all like he's considering leaving the race. but do you believe a private meeting? from lawmakers he knows well, might change his mind if they communicate to him directly what you're communicating here i'm hopeful that it will. >> mark warner is one of the most respected senators. the chairman of the senate intelligence committee and the entire our capital. and he recognizes as some of my virginia colleagues have told me since the debate. now,

virginia, which looked like a solid democratic state, now, it's in play. and we begin to have concern that mark warner will no longer be chair because we won't be able to hold the senate and maybe even the house if we don't have a stronger offensive against donald trump i've spoken to a lot of people who speak to voters that they're pollsters. >> there, they're folks on the campaign, and their lawmakers. and i'm always interested in what folks on the front lines here from voters when you speak to voters in your district do you notice them raising the same questions you're raising now and saying, i liked the man, but i don't think he's the right man for the job well yesterday, july 4th, we're all out seeing constituents and i hope that's happening with my colleagues all over the country. >> and i can't tell you how many people sought me out at neighborhood parades to say they supported the statement i made and that they they think it's really important that we

get another choice they want trump out. they fear what trump would do to destroy our democracy. but they're worried that president biden is not the strongest candidate that we can put forward. who would be a stronger candidate in your view if you had the choice well, my feeling is it's not time for me to name another candidate and i'm not sure tonight which one i think would be the best but i think we have a number of governors who are strong. we have a strong bench. certainly the vice president will be in play. perhaps some members of the cabinet, there were a couple of senators who could be involved what we need is a fair, open democratic process. i think jim clyburn once suggested the possibility of a primary national or regional a short time. but if we expose the american people who've been out there saying they don't like either choice that the parties are offering that we have a new generation new candidate who can appeal to them. we will come out as

winners in the fall and we could well get both a democratic house and a democratic senate to support a new president and put down this trump nonsense. >> with the proviso that we're not there yet because again, president biden has had repeatedly, he does not leaving the race. but again, if he were to leave the race should president biden say, i pass my delegates, i fully support the vice president to be the candidate, or would you prefer as you suggested, whether it's a small prime? mary a series of debates. so others have suggested a series of debates among a number of potential democratic replacements, which do you think would be better for the party and for the country? he absolutely should not pass the torch to the vice president. he may choose to endorser i don't think she has a free hand at all. the funds that have been raised for the various victory funds she is a talented person who i think will be perhaps the front runner in this competition. but we need to present spent the american people with a number

of choices and let these individuals who could participate in this race, let them make their case for what they have to offer and if we do that and it's not viewed as some kind of backroom deal or person that was selected by hand full of political figures, including the president. i think will be much better position. we certainly need the president's support in the fall as he operates the government and does the important work ahead of us but i think it's very important to have an open democratic process congressman lloyd doggett of texas. thanks so much for joining us tonight jim. >> thank you so much on this important evening. >> no question. it's still a had more reaction to president biden's television interview. are political panel will weigh and again, and did biden have his facts straight during the sit down with abc news, are exports are now going over his answers sunday, dr. sanjay

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you're going to lose the house and the senate if you stay in, what will you do mock can answer that question. now, can happen what's your plan to turn the campaign around today how many, how many peachy drawing crowds like andrew if i may more enthusiastically the day i mean, i don't think you want to play the crowd game. donald trump can draw a crowd if no question about that. >> you can draw a a crowd. but what did he say? who's the hair i'm the guy supposedly in trouble we raise $38 million within four days after this over aware of over 1 million individual contributors individual contributors. >> but let's less than 200 bucks i mean i've heard seen matures. you're proposing respective now from our top political myosin, we a lot of them, david axelrod, i want to

go to you first. did you see to anything tonight enough tonight to change the view that he doesn't have it to run this race and win this election well the question is, did he change the minds of voters who are watching that? i don't really think so. he jim, i think that some of it i've found sad, but he he he seems not to be able to compute the fact that people have these questions about him he said, i have a, you're in when george stephanopoulos asked him if he'd be willing to take a cognitive test. he said, i take a cognitive test every day. well, the fact is that may be true, but 75% of the american people think he fail they, they fail, so they've locked and so this is a real problem for him and it's something that shows up in every poll and in terms of where he stands in the race no

politician out there we'll tell it has the same percentage option that the president does, that this is a tight race and he's right in the hunt right now. he was ten points ahead four years ago. he's six points behind now worsens in most of the battleground states. and now in danger of losing states that weren't thought to be in contention. so what you see, jim you start in wisconsin today, tammy baldwin, the senator from wisconsin, wasn't at this event y because she's up for reelection and it's not helpful helpful to her to be seen with the president. this is what's going to happen. and some, somebody really needs to be honest with him about it. it's not it can't be the good lord, but it should be the people who love and care for him and his closest advisers, his portrait of where he is in this race doesn't comport with reality i mean, listen, he didn't want to answer the question about

vulnerability in the house and the senate, but, but i've spoken to a number of lawmakers closer to those races than he is frankly. and they certainly feel the vulnerability. scott jennings is with us as well tonight. scott, you've been watching the president's performance back to the debate, but also tonight from a republican perspective do you look at him having gained ground this evening or gay no ground or lost ground? >> i think he lost ground this evening honestly, i think most republicans are going to look at this and say, this is a man in decline and a man in denial and a lot of republicans, me included are going to say that it's sad. what's being done to him. i nobody with a straight face can watch this interview tonight and think that this is a person who's capable of fulfilling the duties of the office of president for the next four years. they may not even think he can do it for the next for months. i agree with acts by the way, about his not had to get clear-eyed view of where he

sits in this race. i'm wondering what is he being told on a daily basis by his staff? are they lying to him about the poles he also said one thing, jim, that really jumped off the page to me when george stephanopoulos asked him if you run and you lose and all the terrible things that you say about trump come to pass. well, you feel good about that and he said, oh, well, yes. i gave it my all that's all you can do that totally and completely undercut everything he says about democracy being on the ballot the stakes of this election, if i were a democrat, who is all worried about what donald trump's gonna do and democracy. and i heard joe biden say, well, as long as we gave it the old college try, i would be mortified right now at what i heard him say tonight. yeah. if it's truly an existential battle for the republic, the college try should not suffice, suffice david chaldean this is to hear from acts and others. this question about not just the

president's denial, apparent denial of the state of the race, but his inner circles is that they don't know the state of the race. they have a different view of it. they've think we're reading the numbers wrong or the diners amex wrong my sense is they do know the state of the race they believe they are putting the pieces together for a plan to get through this moment, they understand yes. >> they've set up the whole contest to america as an existential crisis for the country. they understand that they are in a moment about an axis, its crisis to this campaign and his candidacy. and then tried to solve that in the very short term, i will say this. i have the only people, the only democrats i've yet heard from tonight are connected to this campaign that thinks this helped him and they have turned the page here several democrats i've already heard from their best rosiest scenario is this is not going to stop people from coming out and speaking publicly about

their concerns inside the democratic party. what i do think he did tonight if this interview has been a disaster, if this had been a repeat of the debate last week, i think we'd be having a very different conversation right now. you already would have had 40 democrats from the hill come out in the last hour. that's not happening. so what did he do tonight maybe he bought him a little more time, but time for what? time for this very painful, damaging episode in his candidacy to continue. >> and there's not much time to change course, so maria, you hear what david champion is hearing from his is democratic context. you disagree with that read, i again, i think we need to wait and see what the voters thank right. i've also heard from the campaign exactly what you said, david, i've also heard from voters out in the state who said, look, he he did too well. he is somebody who's going to fight for me. he fought for me the last four years. he has given my family the tools to succeed i am afraid of what donald trump

presents. donald trump, by the way, is also not well, if we're going to start comparing cognitive issues, the new york times piece had in it some very concerning paragraphs about the decline of donald trump. but no one's talking about that. and so that i think is where a lot of the voters that i'm hearing from granted they are joe biden supporters, but i've even heard from some who were independence and non decided and they're like look, this this election is way too important for me to sit on the sidelines and to worry about a president who was accomplished and who understands what else needs to be done, who might be a little bit it's slower now versus somebody who is an existential threat to me and my family. i'm going to back joe biden's elections as we always say, about choices, van jones, you told me on the year two nights ago that the public discussion of the future of this campaign is very different from the private discussion which you

described as, as panicked. and i wonder if that has changed at all in these last 48 hours are following what we've seen from the abc interview so far. >> now, let me everybody sloshed back-and-forth, you know they learn this thing. i'll give all the money back if it's not joe and then people figure out some little maybe you could i mean, it's still the same panic and again, pieces of the iceberg falling off. but let me give joe biden a little bit of credit because before we said this dude is hiding he can't do an unscripted moment. you gotta hide them on a teleprompter. but it was mad about that. so we came out and he did the interview and he did not hurt himself tonight, which i think you've got to give him credit. he also did a big rally. he talked to them reporters so the idea that is heightened biden, you got to retire that now the question is though, is that hiding what just see? is it good enough to beat donald trump? what you see is a good enough to reverse the sixth point deficit, or is there somebody else in the party that

might be able to do that for you? that is an honest conversation. i do not think that he put those those concerns to batch tonight. i think that people looked at as six points down, we need to be two points up as democrats to win because we can win the popular vote by gazillion points and still lose electorally. so you've gotta be up, up, up, down, down, and down. but the heightened biden criticism has to be put away, give them some credit. i just don't think it's enough yet. to to stop this panic inside the party. it's a fair point today, you have a rally, you have unscripted interactions with reporters and you have an interview with george stephanopoulos. jeff zeleny. can you describe to me and david referenced this earlier that the biden campaign's hope is a number of things they're going to do over the coming days. this interview, you've got the name hey, to summit next week rallies planned, et cetera. can you walk us through exactly what that plan is, as we know it, but to push back against this sense that he's not up to the job, but yes, he's going to he's already back home in delaware where he spends most weekend, so we

going to pennsylvania on sunday for a couple of stops and then you write, next week is a very big week for his day job. for the presidency. the nato liters the nato summit is here and that is going to once upon a time that was one of his biggest strengths for a variety of reasons. now, just where this campaign is a foreign affairs or not at the forefront of the selection, but for him, they could be it could be a moment for him to show that he is in command and in control. he has said that he will have a press conference next week, so that offers another opportunity thursday or it could be a moment to show the opposite. there have been concerns we've all talked with officials who have said privately in meetings. he's not as sharp as he was. so next week will be an example in a way to see that. and it's pretty, they're going to be a lot of opinions next week and washington from capitol hill to nato liters. so it will be a good chance to

sort of size things up at the same time, donald trump is likely to announce his running mate potentially next week he'll be holding rallies or a rally on tuesday, i believe in a drought. so a lot is happening next week. one thing i wonder is at the end of the de here president biden, she completed this interview. he didn't width like he did at the debate, but that's just barely getting him back up to zero now because we have to go from here. he is behind his behind, he's got a gain ground now just now, what his campaign is going to be tasked with is that now they face a new landscape, a new battleground map that the race is much more difficult than it was just ten days ago. i'm talking minnesota i am talking potentially new hampshire. i'm talking potentially new mexico. so these states are challenging all the while democrats are calling for him to reassess next week is a huge week in the

life of president joe biden. justice tonight was david axelrod. before we go how much time does the president does the campaign? does the white has, have to make a decision if they were to decide to leave the rabid. listen you might say so i might say it's already too late, but how much time do they have to then allow for the selection of a viable alternative in time for november well, obviously it's very, very late now and for there to be any kind of orderly process, you'd really need to act quickly i mean, they also could try and just run out the clock to where there's no time to do it. and that that would be that would be unfortunate. i i just have to say jim i hear what van has to say and there's no doubt the president was more animated and engaged and i he wasn't hiding from the public. he wasn't hiding behind a teleprompter, but he

seemed to be hiding from reality and i think that that needs to change because the reality is, is grim right now in terms of his ability to win, not his record as he recited it tonight, is a great record and i honor him for it and i appreciate him for it. that's not the question on the table and he doesn't want to entertain the question on the table. and that is, how is he set and fit to serve until these closer to 90 than 80? and i think the verdict right now is very negative on that everyone thanks so much. so much to digest tonight when we do come back, we're going to ask a democrat who urged the president to step aside to quote, prevent an attack tass trophy. we're gonna ask him if tonight's interview change his mind or further cemented his position. that's next the future is not just going to happen. you have to make it.

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tonight if fourth house democrat is calling for president biden to step aside arguing it is needed to quote prevent an utter catastrophe that lawmakers, congressmen mike quigley of illinois and he joins me now, congressman, thanks so much for taking the time this evening. thank you you've been watching some of biden's interview tonight. >> has he said anything that convinced you to think differently than he should stay in the race? >> i think the question but my first reaction is i'm not the one that needs convincing. it's the american public and obviously they're going the opposite direction and polling and all the critical states and beyond i choose the disturbing points tonight is when the president was asked if he had watched the debate, had to think about it. he wasn't sure he didn't think so. and the other one was something that was just mentioned that he felt as long as he gave his best

effort, that's all that really matters. with the greatest respect. know, all that really matters is avoiding a second trump presidency for all the reasons he stated. so it's been a difficult week and a process for me. but i felt it's necessary. this is not the time for lack of better word cheerleading. it's about pragmatic politics is that what you mean by an utter catastrophe that if he stays in, that he might very well lose the race and bring a second term of donald trump it's worse than that as you know both houses are controlled by single single-digits. >> handful of votes in both house. and such critical issues that come from it. but those front-line races are also really close every vote counts. so the top of the ticket is critical. every presidential year. and at this point in time you a little polling i've seen

in some of those frontline races, is those those local candidates are doing better than out-performing. the president united states that's not a formula for winning back the house and keeping the senate you will hear people say there's potential tickets split or ballot splitting, right? >> that they might vote, say for the democratic candidate for the senate, but not vote for the democratic candidate for the president. but i wonder in your experience, your long experience of running campaigns, whether that is a false hope, some, to some degree, right? with width, if you believe the top of the ticket is going to lose, does that mean you lose the house? does that mean you lose the senate? >> it's not a formula for winning the help, helping person, but tickets, you don't have a bumper sticker that says rao trump and then some democratic senator, it's just not going to be successful i mean, there are people who split their tickets. it does happen, but not nearly enough

to be a recipe for victory john fetterman was on this broadcast earlier tonight he's still stands by president biden and any had some criticism for his party including members of the party who have come out and call the president, called for the president to step aside. >> he said that the party needs to grow a scroll, a spine in his words, what's your reaction to that argument? >> yeah. it's a recipe for disaster. it's also a call for cerulean. what we need right now. i think what takes a spine is to step aside and recognize the president. i'd states doesn't have the vigor necessary to overcome the deficit here. and it's going to affect us all. so i think i think the opposite is involved here. it takes some courage to respectfully stand out, disagree and point out that the president added states is an

absolute denial about seeming to deny that the polls have any validity of all when they're such great uniformity. and the numbers are fairly consistent. so a look, i want to avoid going back and forth with anybody else in my party i think it's time for us to face the realities and speak the truth if the president were to step aside is vice president kamala harris, the candidate should shubi the candidate or would you like to see? >> many primary a series of debates. in other words, more choices before deciding who the nominee is. >> a look once one step at a time, and i don't want to get ahead of ourselves. i have the greatest respect for the vice president. i think she's an extraordinarily underrated candidate. we're not going to have primaries you're going to have a process which i think will be legitimate to the public of you asked previously in an earlier segment about the

timing here there's going to be a vote taken on a remote basis. it would help if it happened before then but at the very least, it would help a great deal if it happened before the convention. because again, there's a built-in process and i think the american people have seen before it at least has a historical background congressman mike quigley. thanks so much for joining us tonight thank you coming up next, we're going to fact check the accuracy of the president statements during tonight's primetime the interview. please do stay with us i love a good hotel breakfast. >> so close to the state. i mentioned at the last room for 190 bucks, i put the last from a week ago. i talked yesterday night in $140.01 cow some sites panic you into booking their last room, but they don't have all the availability instead, use trivago. trivago compares

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the 231231. >> i'm tom foreman and washington. and this is cnn breaking news. president biden in a fight for his political life, he struck a defiant tone and a 22 minute interview with abc news as george stephanopoulos, amid persistent questions about his mental so fitness, even among those in his own party, biden answering

flatly, quote no, when asked if he's become more frail, say nobody is asking him to take a cognitive test and emphatically stating that he is the best and most qualified candidate to challenge and beat former president donald trump in november. what to bring in cnn's daniel dale to fact check some of what we heard from biden tonight. daniel, always good to have you biden. he got to extend it back and forth with stephanopoulos, specifically over a polling. what it says about his candidacy and how he measures up against donald trump in that polling. i want to play some of what he said and get you back, check nobody swap mine. i prepared, but i usually would do sit down as i did come back for invaders or nasa security council for explicit detail and i realized about partway through them all, i quote, the new york times had me down ten points before the debate. nine

now, or whatever the hell it is because they have the numbers, right? >> he does not have the numbers, right? i'd call that claim false. so he said he gained ground in new york times polling pre-debate to post-debate. he actually lost ground. so let's look at the actual numbers in the final pre-debate. new york times sienna college poll, he was down three points to donald trump would likely voters in the post-debate pole, he was down six points, so lost three. and then with registered voters, same story of pre-debate pole. he was down six post-debate pole down nine. so he did concede there. he was like whatever the hell numbers are, you can see that he may not have a handle on these specific numbers, but look, this is the time where people are looking for precision from this particular president. and this is a key matter. how is he doing in the polls? and he got it wrong here? >> a fairly basic one there. he was also asked to respond to some major news tonight. that is the democratic senator mark warner of virginia, is attempting to assemble a group of fellow senate democrats. in effect go to biden, have a come to jesus moment, perhaps ask him to leave the race. let me play that moment. get your thoughts markers.

>> a good man we've never had that. he also tried to get the nomination marks, not mark and i. have. a different perspective. i respect write that, i need needs context at least so senator warner has never run for the democratic presidential nomination. certainly not this year, certainly not in the last election. now, this claim is not completely fictional because in advance of the 2008 race, there was widespread talk that he might seek seek the nomination. he did make extensive preparations for it. he hired staff, raise millions of dollars for a pack, but two years before that election in october 2006, he announced that he was not going to launch a candidacy after all. so never once been an actual candidate for the democratic presidential nadh, that's true, although i suppose candidates, so they sometimes do preparation without saying that their data, they do it's not made up, but no, he's never been a candidates, certainly not a canon the date now or anytime recently, daniel dale, always good to have you and your

fact-checking. thanks so much still to come while the president shows his defiance to the nation were out inside the white house, we're told is tanking to reporters. share what insiders are telling them. that's when we come back this is. our futurama. go daddy arrow creates a logo website, even social posts and minutes ai, ai like it that's the gum see, the view get your business online in minutes with godaddy arrow. >> get rid of bugs as soon as you see them with devo sprays, devo uses essential oils to eliminate up to 20 household insects, plus it's safe for use around people and pets anywhere. gotcha. anytime cbo, people friendly bug, deadly. this is the easiest nontoxic swap. you'll ever make luminoso, toothpaste with made by dentists designs have break up back and remove any toxins in the mouth a little deep, clean your teeth, whitening your teeth without any sensitivity by illumina

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consultation my hair is thinning all around my hairline dermatologist recommended neutrophil. >> it's 100% drug-free and clinically tested. >> i harris longer, thicker nature fall is life changing for me, get growing at neutrophil.com welcome back the breaking news. a defiant president biden has finished his high-stakes interview with abc, but was it enough to stop? pyrrhic within his own party change the narrative somewhat joining us now, alex thompson and sara fisher, both of axios syria is also a cnn media analyst so sarah, the president, he's raising doubt that he's actually losing to trump in the polls, which i mean, we just fact checked it is not true based on the data as we have at the poles could be wrong and they've been wrong before, but the pole is at least he is losing and was losing before. and as losing more now what does this say about his read on the election and what his own people are telling him about the state of the election. yep. so he said in that interview that it's a

toss up when clearly it's not a toss up. he's far behind it. remember democrats need to be more than just above democrat or republicans because of the way that the electoral college, 4%, right? exactly. so he's actually four ban behind there's two things that could be here. one is that his staff is not preparing him for to answer this question in honesty and for a reason. and then two is that he genuinely believes it and that he's just misinformed formed the president is not somebody who thinks is misinformed. i think he's probably read in on a communication strategy to just sort of quell any sort of concern from democratic voters. but being misleading about where you're at in polls. i don't think is the right communication strategy for a pinion. you want to come out in this interview and the energized and be strong. but if your biggest hit on donald trump is that he lies, it's time for you to be granted in reality as well. >> makes sense. alex, you've been talking to people inside the biden white house one official telling you, quote, everyone is miserable and senior advisers are a total black hole. i mean, speaks to what sarah and i were speaking

about here which is not a good place to be, right. if you have issues to address in the midst of a hard-fought gains campaign? yeah, absolutely i would also say one thing within the biden world sort of pulling denialism. it takes two different forms. there are some people on the campaign that they're internal polls, they do show the race. there's still behind, but they think it's closer than a lot of these public polls. but then there are some people, there's some worries within biden world. the people the closest to the president the closest political viserys are too often telling the president what he wants to hear which is why he is going out and saying, oh, the race to toss-up, the races is whatever what you saw tonight though. strikingly, was a president completely defined in the face of a lot of doubters and making clear to everybody that he is not going to willingly step aside and we have to remember been some reports you have senator mark warner is going to hold like a senate intervention of some sorts or try to, or

maybe i don't know. i have not confirm this reporting, but the thing is we have to remember the center doesn't get a vote on this. the only person who gets a vote on whether joe biden is the nominee, the democrat party is show button. if he wants to be the nominee, he's going to be the nominee. you wonder if if his reaction to some of the public commentary, even from say, my quickly, we just had on make some digging seals and more rather than rather than consider that point of view. >> so it's here you've been reporting president binds with losing important support and hollywood, which is important support for a democrats candidate, right? just in terms of public platform of some of those folks, but also their checkbooks how many folks and how significant it's pretty significant. so you've had some of the biggest heavy hitters in hollywood. ari emanuel, a ceo of endeavor, reed hastings, the co-founder of netflix. these are people who've themselves donated a lot, but there also host fundraisers bringing people together within the hollywood community to raise money. if you think about the last two months, $26 million raised in that hollywood fundraiser that featured julia roberts and

george clooney than last month, $30 raised in the jimmy kimmel thumb razor. i mean, having hollywood support is critical and also worth noting, gym in the final months of a campaign, it's really important. remember hillary clinton that night before the general election, having bruce springsteen in the streets of philadelphia singing if you lose hollywood, you lose a ton of visibility. a ton of credibility amongst general voters who don't know about the ins and outs fundraising. it's a huge problem. i show up for bruce springsteen and not for a typical event. >> and then they get caught up in the spirit lot of this dynamic of that tight group at the top and perhaps a tight bubble around the president alexander, a former biden aide told you the president is very reliant on his it's team saying, quote, potus relies on staff to nudge him with reminders of who he's meeting, including former staffers, advisers who biden could easily remember without a reminder that speaks to, not, just an insular group, right but but one that knows the president

needs a little extra help. yes. is that what you're saying yeah. it's certainly what former biden aides are saying and retrospective the debate. so some of those things are normal the politics, right? you have an aide, be like, oh, remember that you've met this person, so and so and so some of these things at the time felt like normal, maybe a little excessive, maybe a little bit like micro-managing, but like fine in retrospective, the debate former eight biden aides are coming out of the woodwork to basically say what we thought was maybe just like a one-off for something a little bit odd. now, looks actually like a like a bunch of aids trying to conceal a significant slippage. and the president's abilities that would be alarming alex thompson, sara fisher, thanks so much for both you. i'm sure it's not the last time we talked about it. still ahead, new science tonight, the biden campaign is feeling good about at the president's prime time interview. that's coming up next i love a good hotel,

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