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today. the republican national convention starts monday, july 15th, date on cnn just in president biden's campaign has already fundraising off his performance and tonight's interview with abc news is george stephanopoulos. it is a signal the campaign is happy with how it went in that interview, biden defended his presidency and explained why he is the right pick in 2024 i'm the guy that put data together. >> a future no, i thought i can expand it i'm began to shut no one thought could happen. i'm the guy that put together a south pacific and issued id with orcas. i'm the guy the guy 50 nations are not only europe outside of europe as well, to help ukraine we're going to have more from that interview right now on cnn newsroom this

is cnn newsroom on jim sciutto the breaking news president biden on the defensive tonight during a critical interview with abc news tonight, biden tried to convince voters he is healthy enough to serve a second term to win a second term just over a week after stumbling through cnn's presidential debate, the president says every day on the job proves his fitness what i'm asking you is about your personal situation. >> do you dispute that there have been more lapses, especially in the last several months? that's can i run 110 flat? >> no but i'm still in good shape are you more frail? >> know? i know you spoke my schedule i know you spoke with your doctor after the debate. what did he say he says look at me he said you're exhausted as i am medical doctors can

everywhere. >> every president dosage, you know, medical doctors from the lesson, we'll try me everywhere i go. i have an ongoing assessment of what i'm doing. they don't hesitate to tell me if they think there's something wrong i know you said you have an ongoing assessment. have you had a full neurological and cognitive evaluation i've got a full neurological test every day i've had a full physical i had no, i mean, i've been at walter reed for my physicals i mean yes answering. i know your doctor city consulted with the neurology, i guess i'm asking if it just slightly different question. have you had this specific cognitive tests and have you had a neurologist, especially so list. do an examination? >> no. no one said i had no one said they said i'm good despite growing pressure from some in his own party, biden insisted he is staying in the race, making the case he remains a better choice than

former president trump. and crucially, he believes the polls are wrong mr. >> president, i have never seen a president 36% approval get reelected i don't believe that's my approver and that's not what our poll and if you stay in and trump is elected, and everything, your warning about comes to pass. how will you feel in january no as long as i gave it my all his jobs, i know i can do that's what this is about george it could be this way you've heard me say before. i think the united states in the world has inflection point for the things that happened the next several years are going to determine the next 67 decades in that interview. the first major step by biden and his campaign designed to show that he can and should remain in the 2024 race, joining me tonight, democratic congressman john care mandy of california, congressman. we appreciate you taking the time tonight. >> good to be with you, jim you

watched the interview. >> do you believe president biden's performance was enough to answer questions about his fitness he's well into the process of answering that. >> in fact, it started the day after the debate. the debate was terrible, no doubt about it. the day after the debate, he gave an extraordinary strong stirring speech to a rally in north carolina. he's continue that today once again, and wisconsin, he did that and he's showing his out on the road doing these things. well, being president, he's quite correct about all of the work that goes into being a president and indeed, his tested from the time he gets up in the morning until he gets to bet at night on his mental capacity because of the extraordinary number of visitors he dealt with just today. the conversations he's had today, dealing with the new prime minister of england. i think he also talked to netanyahu today. you don't do that unless you're mentally competent and capable and he

certainly, yes. >> let me ask you this because as you know, some of your democratic colleagues have come out and said, he should leave the race. one of them is mike quigley, who was on this broadcast a short time ago. is it the loyal thing to encourage the president to stay in the race or is it the smart thing to do? do you believe he's the strongest candidate to beat trump? >> yes or yes? he's done it once before and you'll do it again. the issues, the work that he's done over the previous well, it'd be 3.5 years by election time. is extraordinary. and use their to finish the job trump comes in he trump will destroy most everything that has been put together by the democratic congress and senate and the president only need to look at the current congress to get a fix on what is likely to occur can biden beat trump? yes.

there's time ahead in this election and he will be out in the stump. he'll be doing his work and he will be showing in the daily worker be the president that he's on top of the game you have run and won a series of elections, you know, as well as anyone that you have to pay attention to the polling data. and if you've got problems, you address those problems so that you could win do you believe the president and his team are aware of the actual state of the race. do you believe that they understand that at this point they're losing of course. of course they do he didn't sound like the interview he was denying that in the interview you show me a candidate across this country, myself included, that is going to say the polls are actually right, and i'm losing this no, you don't, you have confidence he will speak with confidence the polls are

moment in time and they are a moment in time. >> and the moment over the last week has not been good for the precedent that's true. but also he's in the process as he showed today at the rally. and in this interview, that he is in the process of rebuilding his position no candidate, whatever cell of course, the polls and i'm finished. you don't do that and don't expect the president to do that. however, you do expect to the president to do what he did. and that is to run the risk this interview to get out there on the stump as he did today. and before and along the way continued to maintain a very, very busy schedule as president, as i've already said talking to international leaders today, that's his daily schedule. he's doing it and he will continue to do it. willy win this race. he will, because trump is the opponent. they unfortunate thing about

all of this is the feeding frenzy has taken trump off the television sets they've taken off the fact that trump has said he would set up a military tribunal for liz cheney. and also in his posting apparently he agreed for a military tribunal for the elected leader of the senate. mr. mcconnell, who is this man trump? that would even allow such words to go out? >> the top democrat in the house minority leader hakeem jeffries. he's now calling for virtual meeting on sunday for ranking members on committees amid these concerns about biden's viability as the party's nominee is the very fact that that meaning is happening a bad sign for the president because it clearly shows that the ranking, that the minority leader knows, he's got an issue to deal with inside his own caucus. >> not necessarily. hakeem

jeffries is a very skilled member of the house. he knows that he needs to listen to the all of the members and certainly to those in the leadership positions on the various committees and he's done that repeatedly and he'll do that, doesn't mean that he's panicked probably quite the opposite. as you have heard from his various comments, that he does support the precedent congressman john gara. monday. we appreciate you joining us tonight always take care. >> thank you. >> so a great deal to discuss. we're gonna break it down with our political experts. and i appreciate having you back van jones and others, vaishno let me begin with you. we did hear from the president tonight more of what his supporters complain. they did not see during their mate, and that is making the case for his record. he talked about the jobs figures out today. he talked about character as

distinguished from donald trump. he spoke about expanding nato, standing up to putin, getting support for ukraine. did you hear enough of that? because one of the key questions going into this was does he still have the skill to be the party salesman? right? what she got to be in a campaign if you're going to win that campaign, did did you hear that? from him tonight and review i thought more of it. >> look, the presidency, it turns out, is a speaking role. it's a speaking role. you've gotta be able to talk. you got to be able to do interviews. you got to be able to give speeches. you gotta be able to debate. it's a speaking role as well. that's not know. yes, of course. you got to be able to make decisions behind closed doors but that's that's the presidency is a special role. it's a speaking role i thought today you saw more of the biden that you could feel some confidence in because it's just the typical voice a little soft, little stumbling, mumbling, but nothing alarming, nothing that would panic when nothing we would have you run out the door. the problem is

when the biggest night or the campaign that guy was not on the stage. so i do think that today he did better. i do think the day that's it's useful. the problem that you have is that the stuff that he said about the campaign is just not factual and what you love about biden in general is that big harb and cares. but you don't want somebody who's detached from reality i understand what gary mindy was saying that you wouldn't go out there and say, yeah, we're losing, but you have to acknowledge some of the reality. and i think the bomb that you have, the panic happening in the party is people think this guy has detached from reality. he's got a guard of people around him. they won't tell them the truth and he just being stubborn. and i think he did not help himself on that point tonight. he's no longer heightened biden given credit for that. he came out, he talked, he did the interview. that's good. but he still is not dealing with the reality of how bad this is. >> david axelrod is that as much a wrap on the president himself as it is on his team,

would it be accurate to say that his team is not sharing some of the bad news with him about the state of the race i just can't answer that, jim. i think that if they're not shame on them, i mean, the fact is it's very difficult spot. and again, i he has a tremendous list of accomplishments that to be proud of and that is meaningful, but it doesn't speak to the main question that the debate opened up. and that's a question that he, he just doesn't have a good answer for because i mean talking about what he accomplished over the last 3.5 years reminds me of the fact that tom brady won a super bowl three years ago. and he's not playing football because time is inexorable. father, time is the one opponent. nobody can beat and that's the question people are asking scott jennings, there is

a fundamental unfairness here debit some democrats have claim, right? >> that there is not focus. for instance, on the lives that donald trump told told during the debate, which is of course a consistent thing which you as well have called donald trump pump out for. but i suppose the fact is what is newest are the questions about whether there is a new decline on the part of the president's abilities. and therefore, you cannot focus on trump because this is the newest dynamic, newest development in the race i wonder if you agree with that, and i imagine donald trump is celebrating that well and it's exacerbated the condition you just described by the fact that the trump campaign has been quite disciplined. >> donald trump has exited the stage since the debate. we haven't really seen him and they've allowed the entire focus to be on joe biden and his decline. look, i think most americans don't analyze the political angles in exactly the

way we do when they're watching their politicians on a television, specifically with joe biden. i think most people watching have probably had a conversation with someone about an elderly relative in which it went something like this. how's he doing today? and they say, well, you know, he has good days and bad, and right now, that's about the best thing you can say about joe biden. every one of us, every one of us has had that kind of conversation and we recognize that in joe biden, but you're right, the democrats are in quite a pickle here. he didn't do anything fatal tonight. that's going to run them out of the race tonight he obviously believes he did well and he did well enough to dig as heels in and say that only our lord and savior, jesus christ, can run them out of the race and for a party of its pretty secular, be surprising if to hear a lot of democrats raising up a prayers tonight over that. but he's limping along. ease ease he's limping along i guess this is

not fatal according to some democrats and now donald trump continues to get to run against the most wounded democrat. he could possibly run against mid 30s approval. and expanding battleground map and really nothing left on the calendar to change the trajectory of the campaign. it's quite a pickle that the dems are in. and obviously the president doesn't, doesn't see it that way. >> maria cardona biden said again today it said it before, emphatically, nobody is more qualified than him and he's he's got a track record. no question. he's got legislative successes by partisan ones to run on here. but you know, it's more than qualifications is more than the cv, the resume that wins you elections. this is a problem democrats face with hillary clinton in 2016. write voters have to look at the candidate be excited about that candidate and believe in that candidate. and i wonder, are you confident he has that quality i am confident he has

that quality. >> the question is, can he demonstrate that quality consistently the way that he did the friday after the debate this weekend today in the rally, today in the interview with george stephanopoulos. and then on down the line, because if he can and i do think that he can if he does that then i do think that he can win this race. and let me just talk a little bit about the polls i just showed, true. michael and ipsos reuters poll that has them and tied in the last two days holes are very different today than they have been in the last decade. >> the track record of pole recent cyclical have not been exactly most recently and i am reminded about this literally, i think every hour on the hour from people who we're out there who know that i do this. >> they say maria do remember the red wave in 2022 and do you know why that red wave did not appear, did not materialize because people were not taking into consideration what women

thought, what latinos were thinking they did not measure. people kept saying, oh, it's the those women, they got over rho they're saying that again today, every single republican i hear that talks about this election says it's about the economy. it's about inflation. abortion is down. number 15 really go talk to the women that i've been talking to they are going into this the ballot box. they are pulling the lever for the candidate who does not believe that they are second class citizens. and this happens on other issues as well. joe biden's his announcement about giving latinos and immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, who have been here for years away to a pathway to citizenship that is transformational for families. that's not being taken into consideration in these polls. i hear you and share my call. >> i want to get your thoughts on this because again, no one's going to, no one's going to say that they're not going to bet their house on poll,

political polls in recent side cycles. that's for sure, but there are certain consistent numbers as relate to biden, one of which has a very low, historically low approval rating and we also know that these, these elections are decided by tiny numbers of voters in a handful of swing states, right? and by any measure a president who is not his best self in terms of communicating his case to win, doesn't help you with those swing voters row, it doesn't help at all. i mean, part of the job when you're a candidate running for public office is the ability to convince and persuade voters that you are a better option than your opponent. we have seen for about a year now, the polls have been relatively consistent that not only voters have concerns or president biden about it his age, but vote is also are concerned about the president and his ability to tackle some of the more critical issues that they're dealing with day-to-day, whether you're a young voter and you're concerned about graduating from

college, wondering whether or not you'll be able to start your family soon, purchase your first home that's not a reality for most. if you're an african american and i don't mean those live in maybe in the suburbs, but african americans who live in cities was certainly like to have better jobs so that their children can have a better future than the one that they had i think if you are an immigrant, i do think that some immigrants may come into the country and would like to see a more unified immigration process as on all of those issues when you look at the data, a years worth president biden does not perform well on any of those things. is that the end? i think george asked a question, well, what if you lose to download? so trump at the end and he said, well, i gave it my best. if you're a democrat, i'm not exactly certain that that's the type of rhetoric that gives you a confidence going into the final end of this presidential cycle, you look at all of those things. i'll just quickly say here, jim if you're democrat, if your swing voter that leads to the democratic side, you're probably looking at the state

of things and saying, do we not have someone else who could potentially help us carried a mantle forward and i don't think that's president, but we've had a series of election of course, around the world, india, france, the uk, the one assistance and get those is not been so much moved to the right of the left. it's been tough sailing for incumbents. yeah. and that's one thing to watch. of course, we don't know if somebody duplicated for everyone. standby with lots more to discuss and thanks so much still to come a biden rival in the 2020 primaries offers his take on the crisis facing the president and the democratic party, former new york mayor, build of lazio. he's going to join me lie. and if biden does leave the race, it would not be unprecedented. other incumbents have chosen not to run for a second term. historian tim naftali will join us to explain what's lbj was one of them and 68 choice hotels is a family of brands. it helps you get the most for your money. so you can be any traveler you want to be, you're going to be a free hot

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sit-down interview with abc as a win after the president faced direct questions about those calling on him to drop out of the race i've heard from dozens of your supporters over the last few days in a variety of use, i grant you that. but the prevailing sentiment is this. they love you and they will be for ever grateful to you for defeating donald trump in 2020. they think you've done a great job as president. a lot of successes you outlined but they are worried about you and the client a tree, and they don't think you can win. they want you to go with grace and they will cheer you if you do what do you say it? i say the vast majority we're not rabat though socks are. i don't talk through some folks there have you ever seen a group with tot time when elected officials running for office? a little worried i've never seen that. i've not same thing happened in 2020 by not going to do

neighboring me down in joining us now build a black z0, former mayor of new york city, who ran against biden the 2020 primaries. mayor, thanks for joining us tonight. >> good to be here. >> jim. >> so we now know the white house views this interview as a wind. do you think it was a win? he helped himself or do you think he just just about survived? look, i think it was far better performance than last thursday night. obviously i think the question is, what's it going to take to really create energy and momentum and faith? and certainly i didn't see enough of that, that interview you, yourself ultimately dropped out of the 2020 race when the poll showed you didn't have a path to win the nomination. you heard biden tonight, dismiss poles showing him losing to trump prior to the debate and some showing that margin worsening since then do you think there's denial? not just

with the president, but perhaps inside his inner circle about the true state of this campaign right now jim i think emotion and humanity. and that always involves a certain amount of denial and delusion. i mean, look, it's very painful. i went through this not only with the presidential race in 2020, i went through, i ran for congress in 2022 and i thought i had something to show people that they'd like. i had to come to the difficult decision that folks knew me and decided they wanted something else so it's a tough, emotional decision, especially he has been an unmitigated success as president so i want to emphasize to everyone this kind of decision is so personal and it almost takes suspending beliefs because you could hear it in his voice is like, hey guys, i've achieved all these things. of course they want me, why wouldn't they want me? but at the same time. and the point you made earlier about what's happening incumbents around the

world, that is a very important point here. there is a bitterness, there's a pain, i think a lot of it post-covid still responding to covid and all the crises that came from covid, such as inflation i think people are hurting and has some extent they lash out at incumbents. and i hope for joe biden was such a good man that he looks at all the factors as he makes a decision and tries to make it as objectively as he can. >> in your experience in politics, is it just as hard for the candidate to do that as for his team to do that, right? >> because he's got a very tight team. and of course they don't want to be out of power either team, family everyone has a stake so jemaah, i think you hit an important point here. one it's so emotional and everyone feels it's their creation. two so in a sense are you willing to go again something you're so proud of, you've given your heart and soul to are you look to some

extent it's an acknowledgment of mistakes and of possibly having set a trap for yourself at some point that's really tough. i had to as certain point you have to look yourself in the mirror and say, wait a minute we don't always loved the media coverage. we don't always love what our opponents do, but what did we do? did we do everything we could have done? this is really tough stuff, but what i will say is i had a lot of faith and joe biden's bigger instincts, meaning i truly believe incredibly patriotic human being, big thinker experienced over time. if he continues to see a lot of challenges, i don't think he's a kind of person that will ignore that listen, self-awareness is hard for anyone. as you know, two more house democrats, they're calling on biden to step down, one of whom was on our brush cast earlier, mike quigley of illinois, senator mark warner he, according to the washington post, just trying to get a group of senators together to

go to biden in effect and call him to step aside. i wonder in your view as a loyal democrat, are those lawmakers? are they being disloyal or are they being honest i don't think there'll being disloyal lot of those people i know and respect a lot. look, this is not as debate in the party i think it comes down to a few different options joe biden has to make this decision. and if he decides to keep running, the vast majority of us are going to battle with them. we're going to go there fight for him. we believe in that if he decides to choose kamala harris and that's what ends up happening. we're going to fight for kamala harris. we're going to believe in her or there could be an open process and we have an incredibly deep bench of candidates. and i got to tell you if the president decides step aside. i hope there is an open process because what that will mean is a couple of months of attention a couple of months attention fully on the democratic party are ideas, are leaders and if we end up with a new nominee, i want to see it be someone who proved their mettle in battle

and got everyone to feel energized about a look. again, joe, joe biden makes this decision and people love him and people respect him but if he, if he decides it's time for change, the amazing thing about today's democratic party were actually pretty unified, which isn't always the case. and we have a very deep bench or talent it sounds like you're saying there you don't believe if he were to step down, that it should automatically be the vice president i think the vice president's incredibly talented. i think the vice president would bring a lot, but i actually think an anointment as it were a coronation would backfire because to some extent, i she should never run against the current ticket. obviously but she needs to be her own person to win adjust that anti-encampment feeling we were talking about. that's a real part of this and she would have to create some separation that you only do that through an open process hi believe she could prevail in an open process. but the irony is,

having it handed to her actually might be the worst possible scenario for former new york mayor buildable as you thanks so much for joining thank you, jim when we come back, did the president's interview tonight help or hurt his case? stay in the race. our panel will weigh it look, we've all been there. your ac decides to quit turkey, a home into an bearable sweat box and now you have to deal with it. hi, i'm joe. and this is why they invented i flow the world's first automatic ac during line cleaning system to keep your gracie going and a cool air flowing. look, that's a drain pan overflow. the damages, ceilings and walls, and your left to pay for it all. here's why a thick, slimy, sticky bacteria called xu blia lives inside your drain pan and drain line clogging it up and cause your ac to shut down, but don't worry, that's why i invented i flow. i flow is a smart, automated device that

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absolutely free. that's a scaled the 369369 hi this is cnn the world's news there was no sense tonight the president biden will withdraw from the presidential race despite calls within his own party amongst them to do so. listen to his exchange with abc's george stephanopoulos on that question the heart of your case against donald trump, it is that he's only out for himself putting his personal interests ahead of the national interests. >> how do you respond to critics who say that by staying in the race, you're doing the

same thing i don't think those critics they're just wrong it's wrong trump is a pathological wider trump is he is never seen anything. trump did benefit and not somebody else, not him you can't answer him. no my is back with me now. maria the biden campaign view is that biden passed the test tonight, 18 is telling cnn, survive and advance i mean, okay. i get that point of view, but survival, i mean, is that really a win well, i think given the pylon after the debate on thursday, i think today clearly president biden lives on to fight another day. >> and that was important. that's exactly what he did. not only that gym, but i think he demonstrated the joe biden that does have the fight in him. that is the one who went

out there for four years and woke up every single day thinking about how he could make this country better, how he could make families lives better, as opposed to donald trump, who is only in this for himself and to stay out of prison. and i think an important part to remember, again in all of our discussion today is i said this earlier on. it's not about what we think. it's about what the voters think this is exactly what the campaign's still needs to gather additional data on. we talked a little bit about this earlier, right? there polls are a lot closer than what the national polls are. all right, so that is what they're going to go on. yes. and this is what this is the damage that thursday night did thursday night, the campaign wanted to jump ahead. they needed to jump ahead that didn't happen. they were a little bit behind, but what they see, what they saw even since then, gym and a couple of data points is that it wasn't his damaging as everybody thinks it was with the voters that really matter. the massive

amount of money that they raised grassroots money millions of new donors that all matters. there were dials that we're done with latino voters. there were reaction's done with black voters the black undecided voters, the latino undecided voters. they weren't towards biden after the debate. that's a big deal the question sure. >> michael, that george asked george stephanopoulos asked biden, is a fair one though, right you know, is it is this more about you than it is about the party's chances against trump. is he making a decision that's not best for the party? i'd ask you just for a moment to take your gop had or do you think it's a fair question and i definitely think it's a fair question if you're behind several points and the whole object dave, is that you are the best person according to you to defeat your opponent the quantified data that we have available doesn't showcase that. so it's certainly is a fair question to ask. based upon the data. it doesn't

appear that you're going to win. so make your case for why you can win now, i'll say this just to take off my republican hat. if i'm being completely objective here and i was talking to my dear friend here about this earlier, not to give free advice to maria and her democrats. but i would actually probably by pass this process going forward. he said down with george, that's good enough, in my opinion, i think the president needs to go to his base. he needs to go to young voters. he needs to go to latino voters. he needs to go to black voters. if you can shore up your core constituency everyone else is going to fall in line. we saw this in some ways with donald trump. if you can shore up that base, everybody else is going to say, you know what the bases sticking with this guy, we have to jump on board as well. i get that line of argument. what about though? remains to be seen whether trump himself would show up for a second debate. what about shin taking another swing at a debate and it's one thing to do is sit-down interview with it with the network news akre. it's

another thing to be in that split screen. yeah. next to your opponent should biden i think the biden campaign has already said even after thursday's debate that they would certainly do a second debate and they should because i think that if they do, they continue to do what they have done since that debate. >> i think this is going to be on an upward scale and he's going to continue to prove to people what he has said he can do. >> the performance. you're born, your mind, you're thinking trump would see advantage i don't think the former president should debate by negin. he debated once there has been a net advantage to donald trump, i think he needs to continue to raise more money, continue to open up those field operation offices across pasta battleground states and figure out how you target a messages some of those moderate republicans who are now somewhat on the fence, all right. >> sure. michael maria, good to have you with me so long friday. i hope you get a weekend i'm going to allow you to have a little bit of a week. i appreciate that coming up. lyndon johnson, harry truman, both face the painful decision president biden is facing right now. i chose to bow for different when reasons.

historian tim naftali, he's going to join me next kaitlan collins, week nights at nine at morgan stanley old school hardware meets bold new thinking at 88-years-old. >> we still see the world with a wonder of new eyes helping you discover untapped possibilities and relentlessly working with you to make them real old-school grid, new world ideas. morgan stanley what

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idea to 369369 solomon in new york is cnn i shall not see and i will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your president that televised announcement from president lyndon b johnson shocked the nation in 1968 and 56 years later, president biden is facing growing calls from some members of his own party to do the same. step aside, i'm joined now by cnn presidential historian tim naftali, and tim the big difference between 68 and 2024 is that lbj did that in march of the year. so before the primaries before he was already

the nominee, this this, of course, would be different much later in the cycle much like here in the cycle, there had been a very important primary in new hampshire before lbj announced its decision. >> but lbj had been thinking about running again since late 1967. so the timing is quite different so is there any historical precedent for this late in the cycle and this kind of decision for anything similar to this kind of reason no. >> in fact, there isn't any parallel at all in many ways. the story is a story of joe biden deciding to run again despite the fact that in 2020 he said that he only wanted one term, the mandate he sought was to end the trump chaos and restored stability to our institutions and a sense of america's mission in the world

and respect for us throughout the world then he sandi turn the party and the country over to somebody else but after the midterms, the president changed his mind and announced it in 2023 so in a sense, the process that both harry truman, who also decided not to run again, and lbj went through joe biden in a sense, went through that and then decided, no, i can and will run again so this means going back on the decision he announced to the world in 2023. and clearly he doesn't want to do that does history treat truman and lbj well for making the decisions they did at the time. >> and do you think you can imagine and it's hard of course to look ahead how history would treat biden for making a similar decision sadly neither harry truman nor lbj lived long enough to see their rep,

historical reputations grow dramatically. >> harry truman lived a long time. he lived to be 88-years-old but the rediscovery of harry truman actually happened about 15 years after his death history. i mean, has looked very kindly on both men for what they were able to accomplish when they were in office. and i would argue that history, to the extent that i can predict what historians will say in the future. but history will look very well on a joe biden has accomplished thus far. in fact, the strongest parts of his interview with george stephanopoulos were when he was talking about what he indeed has achieved at three-and-a-half years. that legacy will never go away the problem for joe biden, frankly, and for the nation is that one of the key elements of his mandate was that he would save the country from trumpian chaos. and if he makes the wrong decision this summer he

could in fact be inviting a return of the trumpian chaos. he was elected to eliminate, in which case, his legacy is severely damaged there's something shakespearian to that. tim naftali. thanks so much for joining leisure so after a frenetic week and high-stakes interview, where did things go from here for president biden, we're gonna have some parting thoughts from two white house veteran when we come back anderson cooper 360 weeknight today see you in a. new group does assignments designers freedom.

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your gut and your mood will follow for eight grams of fiber and trying mirror fiber gummies close captioning is brought to you by tableau. watch, pause, record, live tv subscription, free. start watching tv for free with tableau switching to tableau has really and on money saver without a monthly subscription was amazing. quarter today at tableau tb tb.com the big question tonight remains whether democrats and party leaders will continue to stand by. >> haydn biden, or pull their support in the coming days it's my two white house veterans are back with me good to have you both. van jones, you say democrats are discussing how to replace biden not whether and i wonder the white house views this interview as a win tonight. does that change the dynamic in your view i think i'll sign of any changes yet look, i think the mutiny is building i don't

think tonight may have stopped a little bit of bleeding and didn't reverse the damage when they talk about lord almighty, he said only lord majdi could give me other race. >> well, lord almighty has a couple of names one of those names is nancy pelosi those names is clever at a certain point. the pressure could build to the point where those two people we definitely respects might have to walk in there by the way past the torch. biden.com is just taken off online. there were passed the torch signed at his most recent rally. this thing is growing and i think it's an opportunity for biden to look in the mirror and see how much more water he wants to take on david axelrod is is there a possible worst-case scenario for democrats here in which biden does manage to draw out the clock, but not to stem the bleeding. >> therefore, leaving democrats with no good option. >> yeah, well, that's if he runs out the clock, he is the option and while he said, he'll

be satisfied if he gives it the old college try and does his best. i think there are a lot of democrats who believe him when he tells them that this stan yeah we lost, we lost david axelrod there as we tried to get back van jones, do you agree with that his framing i do. and also, i think a lot of people tonight are frustrated. they like they hate this they hate seeing democrats fighting each other they hate imagining donald trump laughing and all of us as we go through this process but there are other groups out there, by the way, i just want to point out their grassroots groups like push black swing, left, seed the vote. they just going to be helping grassroots people fight anyway, no matter what happens at the top. so you're not helpless. you can support some grassroots groups while we get this thing worked out. but i think it's okay for us to have

this discussion. we have not had are convention yet. the reason you have a political party is because there are, there are interests and ideals that are more important in individual. that's why you have a party and so this is a party that needs to have the opportunity to have this conversation. we're going to have that, but you can support pushed blacks wing left, see the vote or any other group you want you in the meantime there was a time when conventions actually chose the nominee, david axelrod, his back, i'll let you complete your thought and give you the final thought tonight. i didn't realize i had been lost yeah, i know what i was saying is that yes, i think this scenario you paint is the one that people fear. i think there's broad respect and affection for joe biden in the democratic party, but there's a recognition that right now, current course in speed. he's headed for a bad defeat and he may have said tonight that he'll feel okay if he gives it his best. but i think people do believe what he says when he says that this is an existential battle for the

the survival of our democracy as we know it. and therefore, they're not going to be as satisfied if he loses and takes with him the senate, enlarge numbers and the u.s. house enhanced the donald trump on mitigated and rival power along with the supreme court. so this is a, this is a major juncture that we're reaching and i think what's going to happen sunday as you're going to see a lot of members come back from their break and particularly those front-line members who are in swing districts. are going to have strong opinions about how they want us to go forward. and the leaders are going to have to take that into consideration whether any of them can have influence on the president. i mean, based on what he said tonight, if it takes the lord almighty that's a pretty big order lord almighty has other issues to deal with. but one hopes that

that reason we'll prevail and that the president is tim naftali said, we'll leave with his legacy intact and his reputation intact and will not be blamed for terrible loss. >> van jones, david lacks rod quiet night for the president, quiet night for the country. we appreciate your sharing your thoughts with us thanks so much to all of you for joining us this hour. the news on cnn continues right after a short break i had trouble losing weight and keeping same. discover the power of week-old what we gobi. >> i lost 35 pounds as some lost the war, 46 pounds. >> we go. >> and i'm keeping wait off. >> we go v help you lose weight and keep it off. i'm reducing

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